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  • Ask the Administrator: Go or Stay?

    By Dean Dad December 17, 2008 9:26 pm

    A new correspondent writes:

    I am a graduate student at a state school with a pretty decent reputation.
    Although I'm ABD (in sociology), I'm just in the beginning stage of
    dissertation, although I think once I get going, it will not take me too
    long. (I'm hoping to get my degree either Jan. or May 2010.) I've done
    some serious soul searching and, after having taught at a state school, a
    private liberal arts college, and a community college, I am now 100%
    certain that I was meant to be at a community college. I love the
    emphasis on teaching, community development, the variety of students with
    whom I'd get to interact, etc. A tenure track position has opened up at a
    cc school that looks great. It really appears to be a dream job. I
    suppose my question is – should I apply knowing that I'm so far from
    finishing my dissertation? (The ad says Masters required, PhD preferred.)
    I know that if I were to get the job, finishing my degree would be very
    difficult with a full course load – but on the other hand, I'm getting
    this degree so that I can land a tenure track CC job, so if I can get the
    dream job before finishing, isn't that a good thing? I think the other
    thing that I have to consider is asking my advisor to write a
    recommendation for me. I definitely want her to write one of my
    recommendation letters (although I wouldn't tell the other members of my
    committee that I was applying). Although she knows that I'm *considering*
    a job at a two-year school, my department (as do many, unfortunately),
    tends to frown on this type of job – it's seen as a step down or a
    disappointment. (Most graduates end up at top tier research schools or
    major research organizations.)

    First, congratulations on being able to see past the prestige hierarchy that some graduate programs live by. Yes, research-intensive jobs at prestigious places have their charms, not the least of which is usually a higher salary. But if teaching is really where your heart is, and research is just something you do to be allowed to teach, then a cc may make good sense. If you combine that with a location that makes sense for you, in a discipline in which even shaky jobs are hard to find, then I can certainly see the appeal of applying.

    That said, several caveats:

    First, don't underestimate the time and energy it takes just to apply. A thoughtful letter can't be dashed off in a day, and you'll have to get your various stuff together much sooner than you had otherwise planned. You'll have to make a good case with your advisor for a solid reference, obviously, and probably with a few others as well. Figuring this stuff out, and then doing it, will take time and focus away from the dissertation. That shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but it would be naïve to think that you could just fire off a letter in an hour or two and get back to work. There's an opportunity cost involved here.

    Second, make sure you have a sense of what the cc pays at the entry level, and of what that looks like on the ground in its region. In the more expensive states (hi!), salaries that seem reasonable on paper often don't go far at all. That's especially true once the student loan deferments run out.

    Third, finishing a dissertation – especially one that isn't all that close to being finished now – while teaching a 5/5 load is a herculean task on a good day. Dissertations are hard enough without multiple new preps in a new and very demanding environment. In my observation, most graduate students underestimate how long it will take them to finish, even without full-time jobs. (Not that – cough – that ever applied to me – cough, cough.) Add a very demanding new job to the mix, and you're adding several years. Again, depending on your priorities (and your productivity during the summer), that may not be a deal-breaker, but go in with your eyes open.

    Finally, sociology is one of those evergreen disciplines in which even cc's routinely get metric tons of applicants. Chances are, you aren't the only one out there who sees this as a dream job. At your current stage, without cc teaching experience, I'd classify this as a relatively long shot. Whether it's worth diverting a significant chunk of time from the dissertation to spend on a longshot is your call, and it's true that longshots occasionally come in. (In this climate, I wouldn't even be surprised if the funding for the position evaporated by September. That has been known to happen.)

    I don't mean any of this to deter you, necessarily, but to help you weigh the decision a bit. If you take all of this (and constructive input from my wise and worldly readers!) into account and still want to go for it, go right ahead. In the meantime, though, if you want to position yourself for other full-time cc teaching gigs in the future, I'd recommend getting some teaching experience at a nearby cc, and becoming familiar with some of the literature about the teaching of sociology. At a cc faculty job talk, too much focus on the dissertation is the kiss of death. If you can go in discussing your experience teaching cc students, and how it informs your sense of the scholarship of teaching in your discipline (and vice versa), you should be much better situated.

    Good luck!

    Wise and worldly readers – what would you add/correct/refute/suggest?

    Have a question? Ask the Administrator at deandad (at) gmail (dot) com.

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Comments on Ask the Administrator: Go or Stay?

  • Not optimistic
  • Posted by Mindful on December 18, 2008 at 5:50am EST
  • My sister-in-law is in the exact same position (in a different part of the country) and I'm afraid that I find it difficult to be any more optimistic for you than I am for her.

    At the end of the day, though, it is of course your call:-)

    Best of luck

  • Posted by Jim D. on December 18, 2008 at 9:00am EST
  • I generally agree with all the concerns raised. In my experience there have been too many ABDs that never finish and usually regret it. A couple years to finish, especially in this economy, is not very long even if it seems like it now. Best of luck!

  • CC hiring
  • Posted by Louis A Reibling , Retired VP/Instruction on December 18, 2008 at 10:03am EST
  • I had the opportunity to hire 87 full time faculty at my community college in 20 years(12,000 students). Only one was in Sociology. The trend today is to hire faculty in Liberal arts who have some additional degrees in another area. Finish your dissertation.

  • Posted by ABD & CC teacher on December 18, 2008 at 10:03am EST
  • Funny you should mention that just now. I'm about to take a teaching position at a community college without having finished my dissertation, though I'm much closer than the grad student who wrote the letter (my defense is this March). Applying for jobs ate four weeks of my life at a time when I was already busy. Still, it can't hurt to think of this application as practice. I believe the reason I was hired is that I have a lot of teaching experience (16 courses total) and they liked the talk I gave.

    I am worried about next semester, teaching 15 hours a week, prepping, other department duties and somehow finding the time to finish the dissertation after putting in 40+ hours a week at my college. It might get delayed until summer, but I can live with that.

  • Posted by CC Prof , Associate Professor at Jefferson Community and Technical College on December 18, 2008 at 10:57am EST
  • If this is really a dream job I think you need to go ahead and apply. I don't know what state in the union you are in but in mine it is pretty clear that full-time tenure-track positions are going to very rare for the foreseeable future.

    With regards to not having completed your Ph.D. and whether it will handicap you getting the job, it will just depend on the competition. The requirement of a Ph.D. is just a wish for the college, but I am afraid that DD is correct and there will probably be a large application pool and you have to assume many of them will already have their Ph.D. If number of applications is large enough, the hiring committee may start sorting through them by first keeping only those with a Ph.D. I have been on such a committee and this is exactly what we did.

    One last thing - the first year as a full-time faculty member is very difficult and time consuming. After 10+ years at my CC, I cannot remember what I taught two years ago, but I remember my first year with vivid clarity. Good luck with whatever you decide.

  • dream job and costs
  • Posted by alumnus professor on December 18, 2008 at 11:02am EST
  • My own dream job (a tenure-track appointment at my undergrad alma mater, in the same urban area as my graduate school and my wife's job and her aging parents) came open when I was at an early point in my dissertation research and writing. I applied for the job, and got it.

    Eight years later (yes), I finished and defended the dissertation. That doesn't represent a leave of absence from the PhD program -- I maintained continuous registration (and paid continuous fees) all through that period, devoting lots of time and energy (and blood, sweat, and tears, literally) to the dissertation while also carrying a heavy teaching load, doing lots of college service (part and parcel of the culture at my small, Christian liberal-arts college), and starting a family.
    All of that meant significant costs: financial, opportunity, and psychological costs.

    And I would do it all again. Why? Because, in spite of those costs, my family and I have been able to root ourselves in a college and a community where we are profoundly at home -- not always easily comfortable, but very much at home. Your graduate advisors will no doubt caution you to look out for "your career," but remember that life is broader than career (and career can poison life if they're working at cross purposes).

    My advice is to apply vigorously for the CC job if that's what you really want -- and as you do so, make very specific plans (and keep your advisor in the loop about them) regarding the dissertation. Best wishes if you choose this uncommon (but potentially very rewarding) life.

  • Posted by Ron , Assoc Professor at Univ. of West Geogia on December 18, 2008 at 12:16pm EST
  • It took me too many extensions and delays over nine years to finish my degree, and yes, I spent a year as a visiting asst. professor and didn't get two words written on my dissertation (although I received a glowing review from my new department chair). As my major professor said to me, "Your Ph.D. is like an American Express Card - don't leave home without it."

  • follow your dream
  • Posted by Ray , Faculty / Administrator at a liberal arts college on December 18, 2008 at 12:16pm EST
  • I went to a prestigious grad school, followed by a prestigious post-doc, with tons of visibility in my field. I'm not exaggerating. I got a tenure-track position at a very solid research institution. And one day realized that I hated it because undergraduate teaching was valued only insofar as you could get strong student evaluations -- even if/ especially if you could just make them like you by not really teaching them much.

    I always thought I wanted to be at a teaching-focused liberal arts school, but that wasn't the "career track" I was expected to be on -- by my undergraduate, graduate, and post-doc mentors, or by the search committees for the positions I applied for. I remember talking to a post-doc when I was in grad school who very secretly didn't want the research-focused career she was being groomed for. We both felt subversive even talking about it!

    I left the "Research I institution" and got that tenure-track position where research is #2 (not #1), where teaching is more important than the rest, and I am in heaven. But it felt like a "step down" and I was at first kind of embarassed to tell conference friends that I had moved.

    But I got over that.

    The trick -- your application letter needs to read like you know what you are really asking for, and your interview needs to focus on teaching, especially at a community college. Otherwise, the search committee will look for someone who does. My application letters looked like I lived for research, and I didn't realize it...

    But follow your dreams, and bravo for the courage to do so.

  • Define Dreamy
  • Posted by ezry on December 18, 2008 at 2:47pm EST
  • If this is truly THE dream job -- that is, it's not just TT in your field, but it's exactly where you want to be geographically, at the exact kind of CC you want to be at, with the exact students you want to teach (not all CCs are the same, as you know), with opportunities to teach the exact classes you'd like, or work in a special program that fits you to a T -- AND you think there's something you've got to offer that's going to counterbalance your ABD status when you're compared to other applicants (your subspecialty, your commitment to the local community, your experience) -- then it may be worth going through the insanity of job applications and (with good fortune) of taking the job while completing the diss.

    If the job is just "dreamy-ish," then you might reconsider at least for now. Not because your committee will look down their snobby noses, but because you want to set yourself up for success professionally. And because you don't know what the future holds: that bird in the hand isn't always the only one you'll have access to.

    With a single diss chapter written (some decades back, ahem), I came in second at what I thought was my dream job, and I was devastated. But I know now that there are things I really wouldn't have liked about that particular job, and that it would've been hell for me getting the diss done even with "just" a 4/4 load of new preps. And I'd likely never have met my husband, found my current subfield, or landed my current very dreamy job.

    This jaunt through 20/20 hindsight doesn't help you specifically, of course. But it may show the value of thinking hard about exactly how dream-like the job is, and whether you're certain enough of its dreaminess, now and in the future, to bet the house on it.