Advertisement

Search News


Browse Archives

News

Inquiry Into Alleged Anti-Asian Bias Expands

June 11, 2008

Share This Story

FREE Daily News Alerts

Advertisement

A complaint by an Asian American student that racial bias blocked his admission to Princeton University has been expanded by the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights into a broader "compliance review" of the issues involved beyond his case.

The complaint, filed in 2006, has been viewed as significant by critics of affirmative action who argue -- as does the rejected applicant -- that highly competitive colleges' commitment to diversity results in differential standards for members of different groups, with Asian American applicants held to tougher standards. Many college officials -- most of whom strongly support affirmative action -- have dismissed the applicant's complaint as sour grapes, noting that Princeton each year rejects thousands of well qualified applicants of every racial and ethnic group.

The Education Department, responding to an inquiry, acknowledged the shift of the investigation from focusing on one complaint to Princeton's entire admissions system and its treatment of Asian-American applicants. A department spokesman stressed that converting the investigation did not mean that officials had come to any conclusions about the original complaint. But at the very least, the shift suggests that the government does not view the complaint as frivolous. OCR regularly shuts down complaint investigations, concluding that no violation of the law took place, and the agency has limited resources for compliance reviews. Compliance reviews cover much more ground than any single complaint, tend to take place on issues that the department believes are important, and are sometimes used to nudge other colleges to change policies when they see how one college fared in a review.

Official OCR guidelines give three reasons for converting a single complaint into a compliance review: "(a) the complaint, because of its scope, involves systemic issues; (b) a compliance review would be the most effective means of addressing multiple individual complaints against the same recipient; or (c) the complainant decides to withdraw a complaint that includes class allegations."

Cass Cliatt, a spokeswoman for Princeton, said that the university was pleased by the broadening of the investigation.

"We actually welcome the opportunity to talk about this," Cliatt said. "There are a lot of misconceptions about how colleges and universities use the process. We're happy to explain to OCR how we do this." She stressed that the university in no way discriminates against any applicant on the basis of race or ethnicity.

Princeton received a then-record 17,564 applications to Princeton's class of 2010, the class to which the student who filed the complaint wanted to be admitted. The eventual class that enrolled had only 1,231 students, of whom 37 percent were American ethnic minorities and 14 percent were Asian Americans. Cliatt declined to release information on the SAT averages or grades of applicants of different racial or ethnic groups, saying that Princeton doesn't analyze data in this way and that to do so would be confusing since Princeton does not evaluate individual applicants based on race or ethnicity. "We don't want to have the mistaken belief that we are making categories when we are not," she said.

The student who filed the original complaint against Princeton, Jian Li, arguably landed well after his rejection: He enrolled at Yale University. Li's complaint stated that he received 800s on the mathematics, critical reading and writing parts of the SAT, that he graduated in the top 1 percent of his high school class, that he completed nine Advanced Placement classes by the time he finished high school, and that he had been active in extracurricular activities as well -- serving as a delegate at Boys State, working in Costa Rica, etc. While Li left the ethnicity question blank on his application (as Princeton allows), he said that other questions that he was required to answer -- his name, his mother’s and father’s names, his first language (Chinese), and the language spoken in his home (Chinese) -- all made his ethnicity clear.

In letters sent by OCR to members of New Jersey's Congressional delegation, the investigation of Princeton is described as focusing on the allegation that the university discriminates against Asian American applicants. But Li's complaint and the analysis behind it attempt to shift the debate more broadly to one about affirmative action.

Li is pointing to research by two Princeton scholars, published in Social Science Quarterly, that looked at admissions decisions at elite colleges. The scholars found that without affirmative action, the acceptance rate for African American candidates would be likely to fall by nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants probably would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. While white admit rates would stay steady, Asian students would be big winners under such a system. Their admission rate in a race-neutral system would go to 23.4 percent, from 17.6 percent. And their share of a class of admitted students would rise to 31.5 percent, from 23.7 percent.

The complaint and the allegations of anti-Asian bias have been sensitive at Princeton and elsewhere. Princeton, like other elite colleges, changed admissions policies in the 1920s as the number of Jewish applicants appeared poised to rise, and adopted an emphasis on "character" that scholars say was used to minimize non-Protestant enrollments. While Princeton has long abandoned such policies, some Asian American students see similarities between the treatment of Jewish applicants then and Asian applicants today. Many guidance counselors at high schools with many top Asian American students report that their Asian American applicants appear to need significantly higher SAT scores or grades to win admission to highly competitive colleges than do members of other ethnic or racial groups.

When Li first filed his complaint, many Asian-American students at Princeton criticized him for not accepting a college denial. But when The Daily Princetonian's joke issue last year featured a parody of Li, in mock Asian dialect, the satire infuriated many Asian American leaders on the campus and elsewhere and prompted broad debates over the status of Asian Americans at elite colleges.

Just this week, a report issued by the College Board and a panel of experts on Asian Americans made the case that despite the successes of some Asian American students, more attention needs to be paid to the many who don't get 800 SAT's or take nine AP courses. The report argued that affirmative action does not hold back Asian Americans and cited studies showing that Asian Americans benefit from affirmative action in some cases, such as law school admissions.

The section in the report on affirmative action briefly alluded to the study cited by Li that found that the elimination of affirmative action would get more Asian American applicants admitted to highly competitive colleges. The report argues that there are "no winners" in college systems losing black and Latino students, and warns that a focus on Asian American students and the impact of affirmative action on their admission bids are "excuses not to deal with the failure our education system and the complex and interwoven nature of how race and racism operate in the United States."

See all postings »
Advertisement
Advertisement

Matching Jobs

Comments on Inquiry Into Alleged Anti-Asian Bias Expands

  • Posted by Thomas H. C. Lee (Li) , Professor at The City College of New York, CUNY on June 11, 2008 at 6:00am EDT
  • If indeed there will be no winners if colleges should loose blacks and hispanics, then why not let Asian Americans be treated equal to the white applicants, who do not gain much (at all) if Affiarmative Actions is scraped? Why is it that when AA is not there, then Asians will gain so much more while the whites stay about the same?

  • AA should be fully deployed according to its goal
  • Posted by Jack L. on June 11, 2008 at 7:50am EDT
  • Professor Li, the issue is simple: if the admirable goal is to have graduates that reflect the racial makeup of America, then it should mean adjustments of numbers for all races; similarly if the goal is to equalize graduation across economic classes, then adjustments should be race blind and across all classes. If the goal is to have graduates matriculate according to personal merit, then this should be race and economic blind. Finally, an AA program should reflect the goal of equal admissions or equal graduations. Choosing selectively to advance or delay one or two groups while letting the others fight it out amongst themselves to fill the remaining quotas makes little sense. There needs to be a clearly articulated AA rationale to avoid confusion.

  • I don't get it
  • Posted by Mike on June 11, 2008 at 9:50am EDT
  • If America is such a racist country that these sorts of race-based rules are necessary, then why are Asians actually harmed by affirmative action? Is it because racists actually "like" Asians and would otherwise try to preferentially admit them to college? When did that sea change occur? Or is it the racists who write the SAT's have succeeded in culturally slanting the test to advantage Asians? Isn't this the implication of Princeton's policies? If affirmative action is meant to undo the pernicious effect of wide-spread racism, then Princeton's policies suggest that Asians are the beneficiaries of racism, not the victims of it.

    Didn't we fight, not one, not two, but three near-genocidal wars against Asians in the last century (aka, WW2, Korea, Vietnam)? When was the last time we fought a war against a sub-Saharan African country? To suggest that there is little or no anti-Asian bias in our inherently racist America seems to me frightfully naive. In fact... the numbers in the article above seem to suggest the exact opposite. It seems that Asians are the only racial group that it is STILL ok to oppress. Is that because there are plenty of college administrators who are Korean or Vietnam vets?

    I'm just saying... people lie, but numbers don't. How else to explain the disparate impact of what Princeton is doing?

  • Make More Space
  • Posted by Bob on June 11, 2008 at 11:05am EDT
  • I have always wondered why elite institutions such as Princeton do not dramatically expand their capacity in order to be able to admit more students. They have the money and resources to do so, and some of them are actually expanding to foreign countries. Why don't they expand their capacity within the borders of the United States? As the nation's college-going population grows, it is unbelievable that they choose to shrink their acceptance rate rather than increase admission slots. How can they make meaningful selection of qualified applicants when most, if not all, of those who apply to them for admission are extremely well-qualified? The situation is untenable.

  • Asian Americans are held to higher standards
  • Posted by Joseph A. Soares , Associate Professor at Wake Forest University on June 11, 2008 at 11:15am EDT
  • Asian applicants at Princeton and Harvard, and possibly still at Berkeley, must be super-nova stars to get in. On Harvard, I recommend Daniel Golden's book, The Price of Admission, and on California, I recommend John Douglass' The Conditions for Admission for a quick summary of this. In a review of Golden's book that I wrote for TCR May 14, 2007, I noted: "Today there is no disputing the fact that Asian Americans must meet higher academic standards than any other category of applicant, including all White candidates for entry to elite colleges. When the Office of Civil Rights investigated Harvard’s higher standards for Asians, it decided that the pattern was inadvertent, a byproduct of legacy and athletic privileges that were themselves not illegal (p. 202f). Asians, according to our government, are not discriminated against; they just have the wrong parents or made the mistake of valuing music more than muscle." Perhaps this time, the legacy/athlete dodge will not do the trick.

  • It's all about the IQ
  • Posted by ACF on June 11, 2008 at 11:25am EDT
  • Asians have higher IQs than blacks and hispancis (and whites too). That is why they need to be held back. Otherwise, they would be too successful. This would be against the academic worldview that everybody is the same.

    This really isn't that hard to figure out.

  • Still there and getting worse
  • Posted by Pete P on June 11, 2008 at 11:40am EDT
  • Thirty years ago, I made the mistake of pointing out my mother's Asian background on colege applications. It just seemed correct to do so, as I was always identified as different from my white and black colleagues.

    Despite having very high SAT scores and grages, leadership positons in sports and other activities, I was not offered admission to my first choice school. I knew then that I was being held to a higher standard, but I was satisfied with my other opportunities and did not dwell on the matter.

    I can see that things have only gotten worse for Asians.

    Why do we insist on rewarding non-performance in our young people?

  • Not a new phenomenon
  • Posted by naman on June 11, 2008 at 12:20pm EDT
  • Colleges were doing this 20 years ago when I was applying for schools. Affirmative Action was created mainly for African-Americans and their ethnic group is the primary benefactor.

    College is important, but it's not the end of the world. Find another good school, graduate, become successful and then support politicians who will screw over the people who discriminated against you! Revenge may not be nice, but it sure feels good in the end.

    BTW, future college students of Indian ethnicity (Asian Indian, not Native American), watch out. You're next on the anti-Asian discrimination train!

  • Posted by rateoforange on June 11, 2008 at 12:25pm EDT
  • re: "numbers don't lie"

    Yeah, except when they are used in a misleading fashion by liars.

  • The mysteries of the admission process
  • Posted by Sandy Thatcher on June 11, 2008 at 12:35pm EDT
  • As one who has served for nearly a decade as a member of the Princeton Alumni Local Schools Committee in the State College, PA (Penn State) area, I have interviewed many very highly qualified candidates for admission to Princeton. Among them were three valedictorians of State College Area High School, widely regarded as one of the top public high schools in the nation. One of the three got admitted; the other two did not. The one admitted is male and Jewish; the two not admitted are a male of (Asian) Indian background and a white female. The latter two enrolled at Penn and Georgetown, both fine schools. Looking at their records, one could not readily see a reason why one would get admitted and the other two not. They all were superachievers in high school and well-rounded in every respect, being class officers and athletes, having taken many AP courses, being National Merit Finalists, etc. One comes to understand that the process of admission decisions is quite complex and that much depends on the pool of candidates in any given year and the kind of class overall that Princeton wants to put together out of a wealth of highly qualified candidates. If race or ethnicity enters into these decisions in any way at all, it is my impression that it would be only one among a large set of many different criteria and hardly, I would expect, a dominant one. Those of us from the outside who have some input into the process have come to appreciate just how complex a process this really is and how hard it must be for the admissions staff to come up with the "ideal" class from such a large pool of very well-qualified applicants.

  • Numbers???
  • Posted by Neutral on June 11, 2008 at 12:35pm EDT
  • I recently saw a youtube video about China that indicated that due to China's large population they had more honor students then the United States has students.

    If it were possible for these chinese students to come to the US, it is possible that all of our current college students could be shut out of college.

    In turn, then if all of our now displaced current students went to China, they would still not be able to get into college there.

    It sucks not being Chinese.

  • Complex topic
  • Posted by Patrick Mattimore , teacher on June 11, 2008 at 1:30pm EDT
  • This is a complex and fascinating topic. I too, would highly recommend Golden's book which Prof. Soares reviewed. I believe one of Golden's conclusions was that students like Jiang Li were not competing against all the other applicants to Princeton but a select group (I think his figure was 40%). Golden's point was that the other applicants fit into favored categories- legacies, URM, development cases, children of professors and administrators, and Title IX and other athletes, particularly in oddball sports not generally offered like crew, lacrosse, and squash. Those applicants are admitted with considerably lower GPAs and SATs so the actual group with which Li competes looks a great deal like him.
    I don't know if I trust the Princeton administrator's comment that the College will welcome having its admission practices opened for dissection (I mean inspection) but it sure will be interesting to see. Ultimately, I think Princeton can make a pretty good argument for admitting an All-American lacrosse player with 2000 SATs and a 3.5 GPA ahead of Jiang Li. The real question is whether the college can make the same good argument for admitting Whitebread White, a legacy, with 2200 and top 5% of his graduating class, ahead of Li.

  • Large pool is no defense
  • Posted by justaguy on June 11, 2008 at 3:30pm EDT
  • The article states, "[m]any college officials — most of whom strongly support affirmative action — have dismissed the applicant’s complaint as sour grapes, noting that Princeton each year rejects thousands of well qualified applicants of every racial and ethnic group."

    A large pool of well qualified applicants is not a defense against a charge of bias. It may make bias harder to prove, but it is not a defense.

  • Not surprising
  • Posted by Susan on June 11, 2008 at 4:25pm EDT
  • It has been at least 10 years that Asian Americans have NOT been considered an "under-represented minority" by highly competitive institutions' admissions staffs. When recruiting minorities, the focus is on African Americans, American Indians, and Hispanics. The assumption being that Asian Americans do not require affirmative action to get into college.

  • Posted by anony on June 11, 2008 at 8:25pm EDT
  • naman-African Americans have not been the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. That title goes to White Women. African Americans, however, are the greatest targets of the angst against Affirmative Action.

  • Posted by Dennis Ruhl on June 11, 2008 at 8:25pm EDT
  • Has anyone noticed a shortage of Asian students on campus? To suggest racism is beyond ludicrous. When race is considered at all there are winners and whiners. Simply base admission on grades and culturally biased entrance exams and the playing field levels.

  • Posted by AD on June 11, 2008 at 8:50pm EDT
  • "If race or ethnicity enters into these decisions in any way at all, it is my impression that it would be only one among a large set of many different criteria and hardly, I would expect, a dominant one."

    It's a commonly trotted out statement with respect to affirmative action and, granted, this link relates to law school, but, if race in admission is merely one of many factors and hardly a dominant, I have yet to see any numbers to back this up, and when comparisons have been released (usually with the university in question kicking and screaming), this:

    http://www.debatingracialpreference.org/GRUTTER-Rates.htm

    seems much more the rule than the exception.

    Of course, if it is the exception, and race isn't as big a factor as charts like that would imply, universities that implement affirmative action are free to release their own stats showing otherwise.

    It's been 30 years now.

    If they haven't released stats showing that it's a minor factor, do you care to guess why?

  • "No Winners"
  • Posted by Jack Denver on June 12, 2008 at 5:10am EDT
  • The statement that there are "no winners" in a system that does away with preference for blacks and Hispanics is pure sophistry. First of all, it begs the question as to whether such "affirmative action" is really is a good idea for society as a whole, and implies that Asians are being anti-social and selfish by not going with the program for the greater good. This is not nearly as self-evident as they are trying to make you think.

    But more importantly, affirmative action is the purest example of a zero sum game. There are only so many seats each year at Princeton, and for each seat that is given to a less qualified person based on their race, one must be taken from a better qualified person who would have that seat in a race blind system. It is quite clear that Asian-Americans are indeed the "losers" in this system and for the elites who run the system to try to convince us otherwise when they know damn well exactly what is going on is nothing short of disgusting and hypocritical. That the people they are excluding are often the sons and daughters of struggling immigrant parents who barely speak English (and yet manage produce such excellent students) while those being favored are often the offspring of members of the established professional class (albeit from the "favored" minority) makes the race preference element doubly foul.

  • Posted by Anon on June 12, 2008 at 12:50pm EDT
  • Jack L. correctly points out that the conflict appears to be a function of the goal of the admission (or graduation) demographic. While the stated AA goal is to reflect a sample of the national demographic, the article cites the sociology study which may be interpreted to mean that if we were to allocate spots on merit, the APA students would make up a larger percentage of admits.

    As other commenters pointed out "held to higher standard" means that the APA candidates are compared to a pool whose average application is "stronger" than in other groups. Whether or not these admissions subgroups exist, the comment that Harvard's inquiry found them and the practice inadvertent is troubling.

    Together these imply that the heart of the conflict is a discrepancy between what we believe the makeup of matriculating class ought to reflect. The appearance of "too many" APAs is consistent with the viewpoint that the freshman class ought to look more like the average American. The appearance of "too select" is consistent with a merit position.

    This belies the individual's opinion where "too many" suggests a certain fearful, "whiny" opinion (as previous commenters observe). I'll admit to having felt in the "too select," column. It places a strain on my own individual desire to succeed and my desire to see a "fair" educational system. We believe that everyone has the right to an education, but if a fair education is everyone's right, why can't it be mine as well?

    As a second point, I applaud the college board study in its discussion of foreign versus American Asians. Our populations are different, e.g. significant class differences in undergrad (over-generalization: APAs tended to be from families that were poor back home and foreign students were fairly wealthy).

  • Represented?
  • Posted by Lisa , ESL Instructor on June 12, 2008 at 1:40pm EDT
  • RE: "It has been at least 10 years that Asian Americans have NOT been considered an “under-represented minority” by highly competitive institutions’ admissions staffs."

    The unfortunate part of this is that Asian Americans are a very diverse group of people. While about 42% of Asian Americans have college degrees, only about 5% of Cambodian Americans, Khmer Americans, and Laotian Americans have degrees.

    There are no boxes to check for these ethnicities on college applications. Usually, there is only a box that says "Asian" or "Asian-American."

    Some African-American academics have similarly written about the vast numbers of students from Ghana, Nigeria, and other populous African nations found in elite American institutions. Their complaint is not that these students are there--of course, we welcome them and the worldviews they contribute to our campuses--but rather that elite universities use these students to pump up the numbers of Black students to meet their affirmative action goals. While Affirmative Action plans were originally designed to rectify the wrongs of past discrimination, especially slavery, they increasingly have a tendancy to benefit an elite class of Africans.

    I don't criticize the idea or importance of affirmative action. I do, however, question such overly broad categories that allow for such gaping loopholes.

  • Make the private information private
  • Posted by H Zhang on June 13, 2008 at 6:40pm EDT
  • I suggest the sensitive information like racial/gender be revealed in the college admission only voluntarily. If you consider your own race or gender under-represented, you can reveal it as you like. If you are afraid of being punished for the unjustified suppression, you can hide it. I think it's a compromise between those who support the affirmative action and those against it.

    With such freedom, at least, Asian Americans or female white students won't be singled out and rejected by those college Administrators.

    I think the government should pick up one college to test my idea to see whether it can really change the admission ratio. It's like a blind prediction, and it's a fair game.

  • Posted by Joyce Bylander on June 16, 2008 at 9:40am EDT
  • Once again the discussion is focused on the few spots available to people of color. Mr. Li likely had higher scores than many white students that were admitted. Why not focus on that rather than whether or not some black or latino kid was privileged over him?

  • Re:
  • Posted by Tiger 2010 on June 20, 2008 at 9:55am EDT
  • I am an Asian student at Princeton University. I didn't receive perfect SAT scores. I didn't have a 4.0 GPA, either. To give you also a little bit of background, I'm from an upper middle class family, and while I am not on financial aid, I'm also not a legacy student. I am also not an athlete. I didn't have any previous affiliation with Princeton University before matriculating - no family members as staff, etc.
    College admissions are about so much more than a high GPA or perfect SAT scores - it's also about highly subjective issues, such as character and leadership. And it’s not just any leadership, it’s about innovative leadership: How did you lead? Many schools have student governments; there are student body presidents, Honor Society presidents, and hospital volunteers abound. Obviously they can’t all go to Princeton. It’s about how you answer questions like: What are your passions? What do you want to do with your life? It's about weeding out resume padders, students who have been sent by parents to do this and do that for the purpose of getting into a school like Princeton instead of taking the initiative to do what they want to do. It’s about trying to build a dynamic, diverse class of students who each bring something different to campus, who compliment each other and can teach each other in ways the classroom cannot. While these qualities one looks for in an ideal candidate are indeed subjective, and I do not the deny the very obvious setbacks to such subjectivity in an admissions process shrouded in secrecy, such as accusations of bias and racial discrimination, these accusations are valid, but no one can assert them as the clear truth. There are students at Princeton who are living evidence that not all Asians need to have higher test scores, or GPAs, etc. Plenty of Asians apply to Princeton. So do plenty of Caucausians. Plenty of both are denied admission. Another issue to address is in my personal experience, many Asian or Asian American families have a directly focused approach to higher education. Prestige is important, and Princeton satisfies this highly sought after element.
    In reply to an earlier response, ALL applicants must be supernova stars to get in! Of my group of friends, the Asians are not any more stellar than others, if you compare their accomplishments or grades or intellectual pursuits.
    In reply to another response, Princeton should most definitely NOT dramatically increase their capacity in order to admit more students. The fact that it is a small, research based university gives us advantages that students at Harvard and Yale do not so easily have at hand. It gives us the luxury of small classes with world-renown academics, more seminar classes rather than impersonal, gigantic lectures, which are based in discussion and debate. It gives us the opportunity to work with professors, an almost unheard of luxury in large, undergraduate programs. It creates an intimate, personal environment where support is readily at hand, whether it be academic or personal. There are many other fantastic schools whose educations rival Princeton’s if not surpasses it; Princeton, or indeed, any other Ivy League, is not the end all.
    In response to yet another reply, while China has many brilliant young scholars, many of them are very one-dimensional. Chinese university and American university systems are extraordinarily different, and Princeton’s especially. High school students in China study very, very hard for a type of final exam, the scores of which are one of the only components taken into consideration in college admissions. Extracurricular activities are not taken into consideration, where as in America, and especially at Princeton, they are of paramount importance. In the university system, you choose a profession to study; little attention is paid to critical thinking and analysis. I think its students must emerge full of information and theories and facts, but lacking the skill set that would allow them to analyze that information and think critically about it.

  • A 300-point disparity between Black and Asian SAT scores
  • Posted by BenjaminL on July 4, 2008 at 11:55am EDT
  • Those interested should see "Is there an Asian ceiling?" by Russell Nieli, a lecturer at Princeton:

    http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2008/06/several_years_ago_a_koreanamer.html

    He writes:

    "A similar pattern can be seen at the University of Virginia, which published, under FOIA prodding, odds-ratios of being accepted for admissions in various academic years. UVA's statistics show that in 2003 a Black student with an SAT score in the 950-1050 range had a substantially better chance of getting admitted to UVA than an Asian student with SAT scores in the 1250-1350 range. If a Black applicant had an SAT in the 1150-1250 range his chances of admission were about the same as an Asian student with a 1450-1550 SAT. The Black/White disparity in the odds-ratios of admission was even greater than the Black/Asian difference.

    "These are, by anyone's reckoning, very large differences and explain much of the ill-will that racial preference policies often create, especially in view of the fact that the typical Black or Hispanic student at an elite college or university comes most often from a middle class home and has almost always had the advantage of a decent, usually mixed-race public or private high school education."

  • Study slightly flawed.
  • Posted by Craig on July 14, 2008 at 7:40am EDT
  • One concern I have with Russell Nieli's argument is the use of the Black-Asian Disparity numbers. It point of fact does not take into account the large number of revenue-producing" black students brought into the program for football and basketball. It is likely at institutions such as UVA and UM, those cited in his article, that a large proportion of the admitted students in the black or latino category are admitted for this reason. My guess is that they form a large percentage of the admitted per year numbers based on racial categorization.

    A more compelling argument would be stats from a school without a large football program that generally imports revenue-generating students of any racial categorization.

  • Truth is racist
  • Posted by Truth on June 29, 2009 at 6:15pm EDT
  • Dear, Tiger2010....
    As a fellow ivy leaguer, I believe your comments are naive. Yes, elite admissions are so much more about GPA and SAT. BUT, the subjectivity should be applied equally across all races. If your arguement that blacks and latinos have higher admission rates vs. numbers only AsianAmerican applicants, I invite them to check the "Asian American" race box and see the result.

    I have actually worked behind the scenes in the admission office. The truth is that:

    • Ivy elites do not want too many minorities on campus. Personal biases/preferences. Even admissions officers are human and almost non are Asians.
    • Universities want to appear diverse for ALL minorities, but apply affirmative action only to UNDERREPRESENTED minorities.
    • Elite universities sell a product which is their reputation and thus want to appear merit based to uphold their academic reputation (by admitting smartest/talented of non-elite). But more than half admitted do not deserve the name. Priceton freshmen class is only about 30% genius level kids, and the rest are smart but not genius level intelligent children of American elites.
    • Asians Americans from certain countries do get affirmative action. Yes admissions do know the difference between Korean vs. Laotian.
    • Minorities in elite universities do not need affirmative action....they are already from upper middle class families (children of professional/wealthy/successful parents). Very few are actually from intended urban neighborhoods. Many I personally encountered had parents who were VP of companies, PhDs from same elite ivy, etc.
    • Asian Americans in elite universities are also from upper middle class families. Very few are from immigrant families.
    • Largest welfare receiving race in America is white.

    Tiger 2010 will learn that affirmative action does not stop at college entrance alone, but at every step of your career....in graduate school admissions, "Equal Opportunity" in hiring, "Equal Opportunity" in promotions, "Minority Investment" in government contract awards and in small business funding, Asian bias in popular media enforces stereotypes in social settings, etc....

    It all comes down to this...the main problem is that Asian Americans have the least amount of political power in America. But with Asians like Tiger2010 in denial, the most empowered of all Asian Americans will do the leastto fight racism for Asian Americans.

  • Truth is racist
  • Posted by Ivy Insider on June 29, 2009 at 6:30pm EDT
  • Dear, Tiger2010....
    As a fellow ivy leaguer, I believe your comments are naive. Yes, elite admissions are so much more about GPA and SAT. BUT, the subjectivity should be applied equally across all races. If your arguement that blacks and latinos have higher admission rates vs. numbers only AsianAmerican applicants, I invite them to check the "Asian American" race box and see the result.

    I have actually worked behind the scenes in the admission office. The truth is that:

    • Ivy elites do not want too many minorities on campus. Personal biases/preferences. Even admissions officers are human and almost non are Asians.
    • Universities want to appear diverse for ALL minorities, but apply affirmative action only to UNDERREPRESENTED minorities.
    • Elite universities sell a product which is their reputation and thus want to appear merit based to uphold their academic reputation (by admitting smartest/talented of non-elite). But more than half admitted do not deserve the name. Priceton freshmen class is only about 30% genius level kids, and the rest are smart but not genius level intelligent children of American elites.
    • Asians Americans from certain countries do get affirmative action. Yes admissions do know the difference between Korean vs. Laotian.
    • Minorities in elite universities do not need affirmative action....they are already from upper middle class families (children of professional/wealthy/successful parents). Very few are actually from intended urban neighborhoods. Many I personally encountered had parents who were VP of companies, PhDs from same elite ivy, etc.
    • Asian Americans in elite universities are also from upper middle class families. Very few are from immigrant families.
    • Largest welfare receiving race in America is white.

    Tiger 2010 will learn that affirmative action does not stop at college entrance alone, but at every step of your career....in graduate school admissions, "Equal Opportunity" in hiring, "Equal Opportunity" in promotions, "Minority Investment" in government contract awards and in small business funding, Asian bias in popular media enforces stereotypes in social settings, etc....

    It all comes down to this...the main problem is that Asian Americans have the least amount of political power in America. But with Asians like Tiger2010 in denial, the most empowered of all Asian Americans will do the least to fight racism for Asian Americans.