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Seeking Advice on Women in Science

July 22, 2009

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WASHINGTON -- The landscape of scientists and engineers is certainly a lot more diverse than it was 20 years ago, but serious gender gaps remain. That was the consensus here at a hearing of the House Committee on Science and Technology's Subcommittee on Research and Science Education Tuesday. The hearing focused on finding ways to attract more female science students.

The fact that women are underrepresented in a number of STEM fields shows itself in the proportions of degrees granted to each gender. In 2006, women earned 58 percent of all bachelor's degrees, but only 20 percent of computer science bachelor's degrees, 21 percent of physics degrees and 20 percent of engineering degrees, according to data from the National Science Foundation. The same data also found that on the whole, women hold more than half of science and technology degrees, with women earning 77 percent of psychology degrees, 62 percent of biological sciences degrees, and 54 percent of social sciences degrees.

"The jobs of the future are going to require of workers a basic understanding of the principles of math and science. If we do not persuade women to pursue these fields, they are already [risking] cutting themselves out of a great job future," said Rep. Vernon Ehlers (R-MI).

The problems with -- and thus, possibly the solutions for -- getting female students involved in science begin at an early age. Sandra Hanson, professor of sociology at Catholic University and a researcher on women in science, said that the culture of science is often associated with white men. When a study asked little kids to draw pictures of scientists, she said, they often drew white males. When they did draw women, the women looked "severe and unhappy." Nearly 70 percent of fourth graders of both gender report liking science, but by eighth grade male students report liking STEM fields twice as much as female students. As time goes on, female students face a drop-off in interest, particularly in middle school when students become more self-conscious, during high school when they have to decide whether to put themselves on advanced track math and science curricula, and throughout college and graduate school.

The hearing charter stated, "Issues such as a lack of female role models or a female peer group, and unsupportive classroom environments have been shown to deter women from pursuing or remaining in STEM degree programs in post-secondary school."

"Unwelcoming classrooms, outdated teaching styles, and a lack of accommodation for different social or cultural experiences can all add up to create an environment that students decide to leave rather than thrive in. This affects men as well as women," said Barbara Bogue, co-founder of the Society for Women Engineers Assessing Women and Men in Engineering Project at Penn State.

Alan Leshner, CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said that role models may already be a proven method of eradicating the gender gap. In biological sciences, one reason that the majority of degrees are now granted to women is because the number of female role models in that field far outnumbers the other STEM fields, leading to what he termed a "self-fulfilling prophecy."

Bogue warned against "negative role models" who give the impression that they are overly obsessed with their work and drive people away by making the field seem too demanding.

Hanson, along with the other witnesses and subcommittee member Rep. Marcia Fudge (D-OH) agreed that a link between STEM fields and athletics is beneficial. By participating in athletics, female students learn to assert themselves, act as individuals, and stand up for themselves -- skills that keep girls from allowing themselves to be deterred from STEM fields.

But what happens when women enter our nation's colleges and universities? Hanson said that higher education is not immune from the sexism associated with scientific fields, which can often deter women in large classes. Providing small hands-on classes is one step towards integrating women who might not feel comfortable in the environment of science academics.

She mentioned a University of Michigan study in which two colleges with nearly identical math classes were observed, but one of them was co-ed and the other was female only. The STEM students in the single-sex college ended up outscoring their counterparts by 50 percent, suggesting the importance of "a critical mass of women" to success.

Women in STEM fields are at times also forced to play catch-up if they have not adequately been prepared for the rigor of university-level science classes. If women have not taken the most advanced math and science courses in high school, they do not always enter college with the needed skills. She said that universities should provide additional support to help women get up to speed, or even form partnerships with high schools to help female students prepare early.

Bogue mentioned that STEM higher education curricula are often very stringent about elective courses, which forces students to choose between science and liberal arts courses. A more "expansive" liberal arts curriculum, she said, could stop STEM fields from driving away potential students, including females.

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Comments on Seeking Advice on Women in Science

  • Women in Science
  • Posted by Joan , N.P./Doctoral candidate at StonyBrook University on July 22, 2009 at 8:00am EDT
  • In simple terms, there is more to life than only the science world. We all can love science, but we want relationships with others, too. If girls become interested in relationships, they are told that they are not serious students. This leads to unhappiness. If boys become interested in relationships, they are patted on the back. They are happy. If men in science research or employment become fathers,they are congratulated. If the women become mothers, they are told that they are not serious enough. They are discouraged. Why would anyone really want to pursue living in this environment? The environment should change to accept the women and all of the roles they are capable of achieving. Science should be a ship where all are accepted, all have a role and anything can happen.

    Specificaly, I have heard bosses tell educated women scientists not to have children. I have heard bosses tell the women scientists that if they do have children or if they give attention to the children they have, then they are not serious about their job field. I have not heard this said to the men. This needs to change in America. What would Marie Curie think about the advancement of science in America?

    Respectfully submitted,

    Joan, a Doctoral Candidate

  • Missing point, missing students
  • Posted by bevo on July 22, 2009 at 9:45am EDT
  • At the risk of sounding alarmist or jingoistic, where are the Americans in science programs? For that matter, where are the Americans in engineering, computer science, mathematics, statistics, research, and other quantitative related disciplines?

    American firms increasingly off shore their market research to firms in India. In both practitioner oriented and academic oriented research, managers state that a key if not the key resource is knowledge. Yet, organizations off shore the development of this resource. Egads.

    We have lost a generation of American students in quantitative related disciplines. The reasons are legion including poor college instruction, poor preparation in high school, etc.

    Instead of worrying about the number of male and females. Let's worry about the number of American students.

  • Women in Science
  • Posted by Hans Gesund on July 22, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • Where is the concern about the lack of men in psychology, sociology, etc., etc.? Where is the outreach to men in those fields? If women prefer to not become engineers, what's the harm? If men prefer to not become psychologists, what's the harm? Freedom includes the right to freely choose your profession.

  • Insulting??
  • Posted by Kevin Hall , Civil Engineering at University of Arkansas on July 22, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • While I certainly agree with the general topic of the article, I find some of the comments almost insulting to many of our high-achieving female engineering students. We have numeous success stories of achievement by our female engineers, who chose to personally overcome "...not feel(ing) comfortable..." in the collegiate environment and to not be limited by our "...very stringent..." elective courses. I must agree (somewhat) with the reader-comment that your career choice is just that -- a choice.

    Perhaps rather than trying to make our STEM education more "female friendly", we should strive to make it more "student friendly" regardless of gender.

  • Choosing to be in the sciences
  • Posted by Sara Schweitzer , Professor, Wildlife Ecology at UGA on July 22, 2009 at 3:00pm EDT
  • A key point has been brought up - choice. Some people take the choice to be a student or a professional in the sciences away from themselves by letting society's expectations push them into stereotypical roles (e.g., women as nurses, women in social work and sciences, men in physics, men in agricultural sciences, etc.). Society's expectations affect gender as well as race and ethnicity. Society's expectations change over time, but the change is slow, and it is different depending on what society you are in. It is up to those in leadership roles to ensure that everyone with interest in a field of study and career position, is pursuaded to achieve their goals and aspirations. Leaders may be in each level of education and a professional hierarchy. If you are concerned about this issue, take action within your community, school, profession, etc. It was the few with encouragement that gave me the inspiration to achieve what I have thus far, not the many who challenged by decision to enter a white male field of study and profession. The School for which I work is 102 yrs old, and I am the first female to earn a full professor position in it. A second woman has now achieved the goal, and we have 4 others who just began their positions. We now have 10% women in our School. Change is slow, but it is reality.

  • Interest/Temperment Impact Career Choice
  • Posted by Randy Yoshisato on July 22, 2009 at 3:45pm EDT
  • Based on my experience as a former engineering professor as well as the father of two gifted daughters, I can say that none of the proposed root causes for the gender imbalance in STEM disciplines were observed in my daughter or their close friends. My daughters were encouraged to take rigorous courses in math and science, including passing AP Calculus and Chemistry in their senior year. Although their high school is a co-ed school, the advanced math and science classes were mostly populated with females. Their physics class was 2/3 female. Also throughout their growing up years, I worked diligently to involve them in my projects to teach them the basics of engines, electrical circuits, computing, fluid mechanics, mechanical systems, etc. They can change the oil in their car, drive a stick, repair a toilet or change the timer on the dryer. That said, when it came down to career choice although they had all the math and sci prep as well as knowledge about engineering careers, one chose to be an English major and the other a Bio Sci major, planning to go into medicine or some other health science profession. Why? Because engineering is fundamentally not a career path that is person-centric. Although engineering benefits society, it does so indirectly and somewhat dispassionately and impersonally. We are perceived as being more "thing" or "process" oriented as opposed to "people" oriented. Both my daughters want to be involved directly in helping people on a one on one basis. Hence, their career choice reflects that. Whether by design, culture or choice, women in our society seem to get pleasure and satisfaction out of making an impact at an individual relationship level. I don't think my daughters or their classmates are that unique. I don't think more female role models, more female only clases or even different teaching styles would have made any difference in their career choice. Fundamentally, the engineers role in society is to make things -- products and processes. We are not a hands on helping profession. If you want to impact people on an individual level, engineering is probably not going to interest you relative to other career options. There are gender differences in our society and choosing a more people-based career path than engineering may be a reflection of that. I am not sure that is good or bad. It is simply a choice that all of us make based on our interests and temperment, male or female. If that results in a disproportionate number of female kindergarten teachers and nurses as well as primarily male engineers and structural steel workers, that is okay with me, as long as it was their choice. We need to value all career choices. We can live without any of them.

  • A thousand pin pricks
  • Posted by Elaine , PhD student in a physical science on July 22, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • I have heard the analogy that what's driving women away from science isn't blatant sexism, but hundreds of incidents of minor sexism that are brushed off or go unnoticed. As a woman in a physical science, I can attest to the truth of this. At my general (oral) examination for my PhD degree, I was asked by one of my co-advisors why I needed to get a PhD since I would be following my husband (who was just offered a tenure-track teaching position) and going to raise children! Every such comment undermines my self-confidence and makes me question why I am in the field where I feel like I don't belong and am not wanted. However, I am still persevering.

  • Women in Engineering
  • Posted by Pamela on July 22, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • As a female, professional engineer, the women I have observed in the field are very capable problem solvers. Almost all of us are married with children. In general, we prefer to work with individuals who talk about current events rather than each other. Most of us have a "can do" attitude and above average intelligence. Being stubborn helps. Most of us have a story about not fitting in with the "popular girls" in high school. I applied to a school of engineering on a dare from my brother. I stayed in engineering after the academically challenging sophomore classes because of the career opportunities and the pay. When I became pregnant with child #2, I left the workforce to stay home with my girls. It was the hardest job I ever had. When the youngest went to kindergarten, I returned to work. Working as a contractor was not challenging enough, so I returned to school and earned my PhD. One of my daughters is an artist. Two are engineers. The fourth is very good in math, science and languages, but shows no interest in engineering.

  • More about women scientists
  • Posted by Laura , PhD in Meteorology on July 22, 2009 at 8:30pm EDT
  • I study atmospheric radiation and the global energy budget. Last week, a friend and I were at a conference and discussed at length where all the senior women scientists were. In fact, we could only think of a handful in our specialty. I can say for sure that having no role models makes life more difficult. Also, because there are largely young women, we aren't taken seriously for two reasons, both age and gender.

    As a woman who persisted, I can say that the biggest deterrents for me were cultural. Men don't interact like women, woman are frequently treated condescendingly, and it's just not pleasant being a minority all the time, even just not having other women to talk to. Even little things can get to you, like when I was studying physics at a small college and the department secretary left a note on the board addressed, "Hey guys and Laura," or when interning in industry and I looked in the bathroom mirror one day and suddenly realized I was female. (I was the only women in the department besides the secretary.) Over time, this becomes wearing.

    Once you get to work, women are often expected to do all the social organizing in the office, for which there is no appreciation, and, if it was left to the guys, just wouldn't get done. The other cultural problem was referred to by Randy above -- work in my field can be very solitary, when I would prefer to work in a group. Taken together, these things can really drag you down.

    As for women preferring to help others, this is all well and good, except that this work is not valued by society, so women make less, have less retirement savings, and then, on average, live longer. I wouldn't use this as an argument for women to go into STEM fields, but is certainly a social issue.

    My last comment is just a personal observation: Every time I read about a conference or report discussing why women don't pursue science, they quote a lot of statistics and theories. Why don't they just ASK US? Who else knows why women don't go into these fields better than the women themselves??

  • Joan and Elaine
  • Posted by DFS on July 23, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • Great comments.

    Joan, what were the genders of the "bosses"?

  • Career Choices
  • Posted by John Lederer , Associate Director at WA Higher Education Coordinating Board on July 23, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • All this talk about the meaningless truism that ultimately it's up to the student to select their field of study is simply a poor excuse to ignore the social consequences of these individual choices. These tired arguments come from people taking too many bad economics courses (my major subject) and wrongly applying useless theory to social issues, where they have no business being applied. Recall that even those theories state that optimal economic choices are only made under conditions of perfect information and by economic actors that use that information rationally to make decisions. These things don't occur in the real world of "what do I want to be when I grow up." Students make decisions about what courses to take based on lack of information, misinformation, what their friends are doing, what they saw on TV, and yes, how they "feel" about the choices they perceive to be available to them.

    When I was an undergrad, I didn't know what to major in. I had taken courses in just about every department but had more credits in economics and psychology than anything else. I went to see the Psychology Department chair for advice. I told him I was thinking about becoming a clinical psychologist. He told me that I needed to get into a competitive graduate program and asked what my GPA was. I told him and he laughed saying I could never get into a clinical psyche program with that GPA (it was like 3.0, not THAT bad). Anyway, that's when I decided to major in economics.

    I don't think that scenario is all that unusual. Young students just don't make these choices the way we would like to think they do. The end result is that we have thousands of STEM-related jobs that go unfilled because we fail to properly inform students of the opportunities those careers present, prepare them to succeed and support them in their efforts. Engineering and computer science are difficult subjects to be sure. Only the best prepared will succeed. But it's no wonder that we're having trouble filling these high paying jobs when 80% of the CS and engineering degrees go to the 44% of college students that are male. If we don't widen the funnel, we will all lose.

  • American technical competitiveness
  • Posted by Laura on July 23, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • bevo's point is also a good one. Our culture does not value intellect or academic achievement anymore, so it's tough to get girls or boys to become scientists and engineers these days.

  • Professional Science Master's Appeals to Women
  • Posted by Stephen J. Lemire , Executive Director at National Professional Science Master's Association on July 24, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • The Professional Science Master's (PSM), a graduate degree that typically consists of two years of academic training in an emerging or interdisciplinary area of science, mathematics, or technology, that contains "cross-training" in business and management, has been an attractive degree option for women. Of the 2600 students currently enrolled in the 140 PSM degree programs nationally, 46% are women. For particular disciplines this percent may range as high as 62% (Food Safety & Pharmacology) and 58% (Health & Medical Physics) to as low as 28% (Applied Statistics) and 26% (Applied & Industrial Physics).

  • Great Article - we need more CS women
  • Posted by Alpha11 , Self Employed on July 24, 2009 at 6:00pm EDT
  • Yes, we do need more women in CS...marketing degrees in CS/business might attract more. There needs to be more avenues for women to online train and telecommute, as well as more degree options.

  • Posted by Male Ph.D. on July 25, 2009 at 6:45am EDT
  • Hans Gesund said: "Where is the concern about the lack of men in psychology, sociology, etc., etc.? Where is the outreach to men in those fields? "

     

     

    Exactly.

     

     

    I would add:  Where are the men in middle and upper management in academia?  Where are the men in education, K-12 as well as college?  Where are the men in Human Resources, i.e, the people who act as Gatekeepers in the hiring and promotion process?  Etc., etc.  

     

     

    The 900 lb. gorilla in the living room here is that feminists and their fellow travelers are always looking up but never looking down.  For example, I ask you: Where are the women ditch-diggers?  Where are the women garbage collectors?  Where are the women farm hands?  Etc.   Heck, look around your campus people:  Who are the folks sitting in their comfortable air conditioned offices, and on the other hand, who are the people laboring away in the hot sun, doing the filthy, back-breaking-but-necessary work?  

     

     

    When women are equally-represented in the crappy, dangerous, life-threatening jobs then - and *only then - do I think we should worry about women in STEM professions.  When we pay as much attention to looking down as we do looking up, then and only then should we take these sorts of articles and arguments seriously.  Until then, it's all PC agitprop as far as I'm concerned.  

  • Posted by Real Female Scientist on July 28, 2009 at 2:30pm EDT
  • You're all committing the scientist's cardinal sin: you're looking for evidence to support your position instead of drawing a logical conclusion from the evidence. The obvious answer that on average women just aren't as good at science as men (it looks like about a 1 to 4 ratio). But you'll say, that can't be the answer, because it makes me uncomfortable so we'll waste time and money attempting to force it to be otherwise. You're just like Christians determined to prove that the world is 6000 years old. Why are we determined to attach a stigma to women's relatively poor science performance? No one attaches a similar sentiment to men's relatively poor showing in psychology. Relax everyone, and don't let your personal prejudices lead you by the nose.