Why are people surprised by vapid undergrads

So, there you have it folks. Now the secret is out. Undergrads are a bunch of vapid grade-obsessed girls who spend their time manipulating professors. The professors like it, because it keeps them from actually doing anything intellectual when they have to deal with undergrads.

The sad part is, this system unfairly treats the odd undergrad who might care about what their doing, as professors (and the students) seem to turn a cold shoulder to anyone who wants to substantively address these fields.

Now, to stereotype. (In the real world people stereotype. Please get used to it.) Most of these people who the professor associated with were girls who claimed to be studying “soft” science or literature. In fact, if I recall correctly she didn’t take any “real” science classes. Of course, the sciences play the game, too, offering “easy” “earth-science”-type classes for “liberal arts” majors without ever challenging them. Perhaps if everyone stood a real risk of failure and were forced to take basic science classes where they had to initially put a bit more time and effort in, and stood a real risk of flunking out and going home in disgrace people might care a bit more. But, they don’t. Undergrad are being trained to say vague things to adults and only discuss grades with their peers.

Why does this surprise anyone?

Larry, at 7:16 am EDT on July 13, 2005

Improvement of Learning

This is a great article. It is not about undergraduate students—pointing out their prejudices or recognizing the inequalities in “the system.”

It is about improving student learning through her experience. Her teaching has been transformed, and this book will help other instructors tweak their attitudes and pedagogies to better educate a terrific generation of students, tapping into their potential for greatness.

Have a happy day!

Cal, at 8:09 am EDT on July 13, 2005

undercover tricks

usually this is not a term that we use to describe situated ethnographies. the reason that we do things like this is because there are differences in what is discernable from different perspectives. the difference between what we thought was the case, and what is the case, provides insights that are usually worthwhile.

jeremy hunsinger, at 8:12 am EDT on July 13, 2005

It is interesting that this information appears to be groundbreaking, but most who work professionally in Residence Life would be able to provide similar information (and probably additional discoveries), without the necessity of going undercover. I do applaud this faculty member in her willingness to redefine her teaching.

Tedd, Residence Director, at 8:32 am EDT on July 13, 2005

“Student affairs professionals on each campus do this everyday.”

No they don’t. In my experience they spend their lives catering to students who freak out or want to hang out with “student affairs professionals” organizing dances or penning yearbooks. Most of them just want to relive their college years, which is fine, but doesn’t help undergrads develop intellectually.

(As an aside, in my experience, I have found that these“professionals” are to blame for most of the censorship that the editors of this magazine detest so much on campuses.)

Larry88, at 8:49 am EDT on July 13, 2005

been done before

Michael Moffatt’s book “Coming of Age in New Jersey” did the same thing at Rutgers in the 1980’s.

Dean Dad, at 9:09 am EDT on July 13, 2005

Should we listen to the staff?

Yes, Rochelle, there is blatant disregard for non-faculty “intellectuals” on college campuses. We are not the first to notice this. I am not, however, sure if it is a bad thing. On the one hand, as you indicate it might be somewhat intellectually limiting. On the other hand, since they are not subject to the discipline of tenure, publication requirements, peer review, and all that other stuff that professors are obsessed with, perhaps they don’t have too much to contribute. But I don’t have a position on this.

Also, there is some distrust of people with MAs in college administration, because, for some reason, people think that they are just trying to act like undergrads their whole life. In my view, this is spot on.

Larry88, at 9:27 am EDT on July 13, 2005

While perhaps this researcher could have learned many of her “lessons” by talking to other college administrators that deal with students and their daily challenges, I doubt that simply listening to other adults relate their tales would have provided her the level of insight that I hope she gained.

As a college administrator that does not teach, I am often dismayed by the instructors and Ph.D.s that speak of students with distain and disrespect. Holding themselves up as the “educated” teacher does little to bridge the gap between student and instructor. The old adage “You can not understand another until you have walked a mile in their moccasins” has often come to my mind. This is especially true of their feelings and misunderstanding of low-income and first-generation college students.

I believe that one of the primary reasons that colleges need to recruit and hire student support staff that share similar backgrounds with their students is that there is a widening gap between students and the teaching faculty in this country. I am thrilled to learn that there are faculty members that recognize that they just “don’t get” their students and want to advance the understanding of student challenges.

In addition to reading this latest book, I recommend that all college faculty and administrators take the time and initiative to read Ruby Payne’s “Framework for Understanding Poverty” and Barbara Ehrenreich’s “Nickel and Dimed — On (Not) Getting By in America". Neither of these texts have profound “aha” moments in my opinion...if you’re already in touch with the reality of America’s economic and educational gap. But for those that have always lived a middle-class existence, there will definitely be multiple “aha” moments and hopefully much reflection upon one’s personal attitudes.

As educators, it is our challenge to learn to more effectively teach our students; and, I believe that before we can do that we come to understand them better. I can’t wait to read this book.

Rebecca, at 10:05 am EDT on July 13, 2005

Yes, but.........

Yes we in Student Affairs do this on a daily basis by relating with our students on a day to day basis. However, our weekness is in that of scholarly research and publication. It is not required of our field, as it is with professors, so we simply do not do it.

I greatly respect this proffessor for her research project. Obviously this proffessor really cares. She cares about students and she cares about her skills as a teaching proffessional. I have been involved with programming where we honored proffessors as outstanding teachers in our residence halls. It was a struggle to get them to come to the residence hall for a very nice reception thrown in their honor. I personally talked to the proffessors that did not make it to the reception and got the feeling that because it was something that required extra time to commit that they did not attend. Or worse yet with a few of the proffessors I got the feeling that they thought that to attend a function in a residence hall was beneath them. It was suggested that we move the function from the halls to an academic facility.

Once again I greatly respect this proffessor. Kudos go to her. She has conducted scholarly research that we in student affairs need to be doing. This ethnographic study could be real insight for us as well as teaching proffesionals.

In defense of student affairs versus academicians we are not given the time to do scholarly research as is needed. This project, I am sure, required some sort of sybatical. Sybaticals in Student Affairs, though are rare. A lot of this will take a great mindshift in Student Affairs. One that is needed and one I think whose time is coming.

David Shaw, Office of Student Conduct, Rights, & Responsibilities at Arkansas State University, at 10:06 am EDT on July 13, 2005

the power of ethnographic exploration of the freshman experience

Not long after the publication of Moffitt’s book on ‘"Coming of Age in NJ” I initiated this very same study at Saint Louis University — in late 80’s /early 90s. We engaged a 50-something anthropology student to live in the freshman dorm to offer us a “Margaret Mead” perspective on the first 6 weeks of the college experience. It was a fascinating project — that parallels in many ways this study.

I differ with those who say these findings are likely to be ‘nothing new’ to Student Affairs professionals. To the contrary, our study not only uncovered ample evidence that ran counter to the taken-for-granted assumptions of Student Affairs, it served as an valuable evaluative critique of the Student Affairs agenda. We found that much of the formal freshman orientation was actually disorienting for students; we found that students began classes having already established some highly dysfunctional behavior patterns over the Orientation Week; we discovered a great deal about subcultures of students who choose not to be involved in the things Student Affairs tends to focus on and value; we found that the most meaningful parts of the orientation experience for both students and parents were elements that weren’t ‘managed’ by the staff.

I also differ with those who say “so what?” & that this study confirmed what we all know about today’s freshmen. Our study at SLU captured student life from the students’ perspective and in their vernacular — - and in many cases we found that perspective and that experience to be rich and substantial rather than shallow and vapid.

I spent 11 years at Saint Louis U doing research and evaluation for the VP of Student Affairs; this one qualitative, ethnographic study initiated more programmatic change, more invigorating dialogue, and more fresh insight into the reality of the freshman experience than any quantitative survey or statistical analysis.

I just wish we’d published a book about it.

David Kalsbeek, Vice President — Enrollment Management at DePaul University, at 10:08 am EDT on July 13, 2005

David, You *should* publish a book on this. The Student Affairs literature seems to have never noticed a problem, nor proposed a solution to the findings that David mentions that 1) management during orientation often hurts students; 2) student affairs ends up disorienting students; and 3) student affairs doesn’t notice many subcultures.

LArry, at 10:24 am EDT on July 13, 2005

“clearly” unethical ??

Marvin, I am quite curious as to why it is “clearly” unethical. It appears from the comments (and from the book) that the proponents have undertaken some serious consideration of the ethics of this project, so, perhaps you could explain why it is unethical and rebut their analysis.

Larry, at 11:12 am EDT on July 13, 2005

Greetings from AnyU (the pseudonym for my university). I thought, as the author of My Freshman Year, I’d respond to a few of your comments. What a wonderful venue, and a great set of thoughtful contributions! Thanks.

First a word to the ethics commentators. “Undercover tricks” wasn’t my wording. I think what I had in mind in doing this research was, as Rebecca wrote in her comments, to walk “a mile in their shoes.” The purpose of this approach is not exposé; it’s understanding and compassion. The “curriculum of the hallways, ” as Jason notes, is hugely important to understanding the undergraduate experience yet, as faculty, we know little of this. We also have little idea that the non-classroom experience represents the majority (65% or more according to my interviewees) of what undergrads believe college education to be. [One correction in this regard, I did not interview students or record conversations without express written informed consent. The consent statement fully disclosed the research and my intention to publish it. My consent statement simply did not say that, when I’m not on sabbatical, I’m a professor and the IRB agreed I didn’t need to share this] The real problems with ethics come beyond these formalisms. How do I handle the personal conversations that occurred in my life, when they were based on an unstated assumption that I was a student? Can I record in my personal diary anything that happens to me, even when those events involve other people? These, and other issues, I deal with in a Afterword section called Ethics and Ethnography. You may not all agree with how I resolved issues, but I think you’ll see I tried to stay conscious and caring.

Now a word to the No Surprise, Nothing New, Why do we need this? commentators. I honestly think you WILL be surprised. I think some of the res life folks will want to see how students in my book define and forge “community,” that elusive goal that Student Life offices are trying to achieve. It is not the way many Student Life personnel think. I think the failure of diversity efforts on many campuses will be much clearer when you notice, as an anthropologist would, how student social networks are formed.

And as for the student Life folks, they DO have a wealth of information about, what else, student life! The disconnect between student life and faculty that John Bing talks about in his message is true and unfortunate. I agree with David Shaw that faculty often think certain student life activities and personnel are below them (or at least irrelevant to them). This division work against the mission of the university. I wish that faculty who do research and student life personnel could work together more closely. I hope my book makes a contribution to that end (by the way, the student life folks at AnyU —at least the handful who now know—- have been among the most interested and supportive of the project

To the naysayers about the worth of all this, I say give me a chance and read the book. David Kalsbeek , who wrote comments here based on his own ethnographic experience, reflects my view about ethnography. You’d be awfully surprised what you can learn (not just in the questionnaire-type way but experientially and at the gut level) by just living in a village every day, and talking to people, and trying to do the things they do. The same is true when you turn your lens on your own culture. I’m hoping that students benefit, too, from seeing their culture anew. I’ve been pointing out to undergrads “scripts” that they (we) perform pre- and post-class as students talk about a course. Even though it’s familiar, they see what they’re doing in a new light—that is, as a script. My students have gone to their next class and tried to alter the script by saying something outside it like “boy, that was an interesting reading.” They come back to my class stunned by the results. The info is nothing new, but on the other hand, it is sort of. They get to not just do what they do but see themselves doing what they do. The change in reflexivity can be life-changing.

If you’ve seen Michael Moffatt’s 1989 book, you know that description can be eye-opening. Moffatt did research on students in the 1970s and 1980s (he did not take classes and lived in the dorm one day per week as an “out” professor) but comparing the two books is still interesting to look at changes and continuities in student culture. If you do end up reading my book, let me know what you think (rbkhnathan@hotmail.com).

rebekah nathan, Author’s Throughts, at 1:43 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

While humility is definitely a virtue that we should all strive to attain, declaring that people who have not made the intellectual commitment to study something can teach those who have is a little disingenuous. I say this only because I have witnessed professors tell students that they “know more about the subject [ than the professors ]”, when they 1) didn’t mean it; and 2) just didn’t want to teach the students the core body of literature in the first place. So, my preference would be for people to state, from the outset, what they think of the students and their command of the subject – and be honest about it.

This is not to say that there are people who have not witnessed interesting events that might contribute to a scholarly body of literature, or that knowledge in one field cannot contribute to another. But these things must be viewed as a either a supplement or tool that must be carefully used only after one has some command on a subject.

For example, although I do not have a degree in this subject, I think that the scholarly discussion that was contained in this book (and a couple of articles that I found on the subject) can inform the legal discussion of what constitutes entrapment. But anthropology and sociology are not substitutes for law and vice-versa.

LArry88, at 1:43 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

improvement through research

The petty and vicious nature of some comments above only serve to demonstrate how removed certain individuals are from students, administration, and staff.

Can the student affairs field be improved? Of course!

Will improvements come from anger, unpublished “research", and vague references to “experience"? Of course not.

student and teacher, student at USC, at 1:44 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Look at the growth of “student life” professionals vis-a-vis tenure track lines, their unethical conduct in trying to censor politically incorrect views, and their general arrogance that they know what’s best for students and you will have an understanding as to why most faculty wish they would just disappear

Please, I spent 5 years earning a ph.d. where I published 5 peer reviewed papers, another 6 on the tenure clock where i published two books and another dozen papers all of the time where I taught a full load. Universities aren’t daycare centres. 18 year olds should be able to either a) run their own lives and earn their degrees b) drop out and go to work. I was a first generation college student and needed none of the babysitting that student affairs tried to offer me. I found them intrusive and condescending...and most couldn’t have had IQs over 100.

tom, someone who earned a phd not an ma in student affairs, at 1:45 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

lacking a major component

well, ms nathan...the entire time you spent frolicking about as a coed is effectively wasted if you didn’t fully immerse yourself in the dorm life and seize the numerous opportunities to BE one of those people puking at 3am and ‘experimenting’ with your sexuality and hooking up with college guys on the weekend after nickel beer night. i’m very disappointed. if you didn’t take that route, all the time you thought you were getting the inside scoop....it’s more likely you were missing out because everyone avoided you because you were the prude from the dorm who would never relax and have a good time with everyone. if you didn’t have to see the school nurse for free condoms at least once a month, it would be painfully obvious to any student around that you aren’t the product of the educational system the kids around you grew up with./just sayin’

jer2911tx, mr at farker, at 2:40 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

To the Ethics Mavin and those concerned about ethics, one more comment only after seeing the recent postings. I have to say that talking about my “deranged study” is a bit premature, given that my book is not yet released so no one, including you, has read it. I realize that you are trying to “fight the good fight” and protect our field but please don’t jump the gun and put forth incorrect information. It is not true that I dispensed with Informed Consent procedure.

I used Informed Consent procedure in every one of my interviews. I indicated that I was a researcher. I stated that what I was doing was NOT for a class or independent study but rather for my own research. I explained the purpose of the study and what I would do with the research results. I asked whether they would like to participate in the study and whether I could take notes or tape record them. I have signed Informed Consent statements that allow me to use the transcripts of our conversations for my writing and publication. The only thing I did not disclose is that, when I would return to work after sabbatical, I would be a professor. This was done with the approval of my Institutional Research Board. Furthermore, I did decide that I would tell people that I was a professor if they asked more about my life. A few did ask me, and I disclosed. I never lied to anyone who asked me a question. But almost everyone just assumed I was a returning student.

Other than that, I went to class everyday, took tests, went to tutoring (for my engineering class) and did the same thing that every other enrolled student did. I tried to get decent grades. I kept a personal diary. I looked at my own life, and often in my book, reported that. There was much I didn’t report, precisely when I didn’t have informed consent for a particular story or incident that intimately involved others.

It is sometimes unfortunate that others, when writing about this study, pick the terms that will generate more interest. This article was called Undercover Freshman (I did not title it) but please do not make the mistake of believing that I did not follow research protocol or that I simply used and recorded people’s words and confidences without their permission. I’ve been pretty forthcoming in the book about the research process and a single article can’t convey the details of what the research involved (and what it didn’t). Article is good, but read the book. Then we’ll talk. –Rebekah Nathan

Rebekah Nathan, Ethics again, at 4:13 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Ethics & wisdom

Wow! what a storm Rebekah Nathan’s book has generated.

Where to start?

First, kudos to Rebekah for having the good sense and impertinence to take her professional lkearning and apply it to a “situation-at-hand.” For too long, anthropologists went out and did field research among the “savages” and “third-world peoples"; fortunately many anthropologists have demonstated the value of bringing their perspective to bear on our own world.

Of course, we of the professoriat know something about our students. Yes, they don’t often do the readings and we blame them for that. But what about Rebekah’s finding that the readings don’t always tie in with what goes on in lecture/classroom? Is there anyone who is going to argue that our assigned readings are ALWAYS directly relevant to what we are teaching And the same is true of many of Rebekah’s other findings (at least as reported in the article).

Just because we have contact with students doesn’t mean that we understand their experiences. At best we can only understand a limited degree of their experiences. The same applies to student affairs (SA) people; whatever their motivation, they see students with a particular and limited perspective. What Rebekah was attempting to do was to see students in their natural habitat. Of course she could have identified herself as a professor research students but is there anyone that believes that those students would have interacted with her the way they did as a fellow student?

Participant observation is a legitimate research method. It is also, as sociologists and anthropologists learned a long time ago, highly variable along a continuum from participant to observer. Malinowski was not the participant-observer (PO) he claimed to be almost a century ago; he was an observer who went out to live in the “bush.” How much the researcher will be participant or observer along that continuum depends upon the possibilities of obtaining serious data and similar conditions required by the research.

Years ago I tried to initiate “open” research among migrant agricultural workers in New York State. Agricultural growers wouldn’t hear of letting students into their labor camps and employment (there was good reason for that) so we went, in effect, underground and introduced students by other means, but not by telling anyone what we were doing. Our resultant book, MIGRANT, provided a picture of migrant life about which much was alredy known but even more was not. Moreover it explained why a totally dysfunctional system, disliked by growers, migrant workers, state officials, and others continued to exist despite its detastation by almost everyone.

As long as Rebekah protected her “subject” fellow-students from identification, her research strikes me as fully in accord with social science ethics.

Without replicating Rebekah’s research, I’ve been convinced for years that a lot of students don’t read, vomit/puke, etc., because they have been shovelled through the educational process from kindergarten into college by parents, advisors, and peers, but without a significant cognitive appreciation of what higher education is supposed to do for them. Conversely, I am equally convinced that we who provide hem with their higher education take for granted that they OUGHT to appreciate what we are doing for them, giving them skills, opening their minds, etc. Rebekah’s research illustrates (to me) that when we stop taking for granted our justified benificence in giving them our wisdom, many of them might start appreciating their college educations better.

Finally, I remain puzzled as to why a number of the critics don’t identify themselves. Rebekah has to remain undercover because, if she becomes identified, some of her students might become “outed.” This doesn’t apply to us critics.

Bill Friedland, Professor Emeritus at University of California, Santa Cruz, at 5:43 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Student learning and development is what matters

There are many important connections between student affairs and academic affairs that occur on our college campuses everyday. Think about the great student learning opportunties enhanced by living-learning communities (connecting the residence hall living environment with academics), community-based service courses, and cooperative internship experiences. Such programs (at least effective ones) usually are collaborations involving both student affairs professionals and faculty members.

To foster a successful educational environment, faculty and student affairs can and do work together. We need each other to educate our students in the fullest sense. There is no need to bash either side of the house since we all have a hand in educating students.

To read some great research on student learning and development, check out the Journal of College Student Development published by the the American College Personnel Association.

Also, check out “Learning Reconsidered” & “Powerful Partnerships":

http://www.myacpa.org/pub/pub_othermedia.cfm#Learning%20Reconsidered

Student affairs and faculty should work together to produce an intellectually enriching and supportive campus community. Let’s try to get student affairs and academic affairs to see the common grounds that we share...student learning.

Justin, at 6:07 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Fox TV inspired unethical research

I’ll bet five bucks that this “anthropologist” comes from some small sleepy college in the middle of nowhere that barely has a IRB, so they couldn’t see all the obvious problems with her design. A real shame, because this unethical research will further undermine anthropology’s credibility. I’ve worked on IRBs for almost a decade and there are so many redflags raised in this work that I wonder what this supposed IRB did. Odd how they author hides behind what the IRB did instead of taking responsibility for what she did.

The book’s author has apparenly been watching too much FOX TV, and Cornell knows how to generate a quick buck by all the heat this unethical research will generate.

William Jameson, Prof. Sociology at USB, at 8:20 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

btw

I worked as an RA as an undergrad. I saw the incompetence in Student Affairs firsthand. Total waste of space and resources.

It was nice to get to spend time teaching in England. The students had wonderful on campus pubs where they could chat with faculty, and regulations and nonsense that comes with Student Affairs is almost nonexistent

tom, at 8:21 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Profs should sit in their students’ desk

I believe the value of the story is showing faculty and staff the importance of occasionally to re-sitting in the desks of their students. Many forget what it was once like to struggle with dense, difficult material taught poorly or indifferently or what it is like to deal with indifferent or poorly trained staff. Ms. Nathan deserves Kudos for taking the risk of becoming a student all over again and using the knowledge to refresh and improve her own teaching and scholarship.

——— Robin Y. Mabry Hubbard, MBA, EdSRural Sociology Doctoral Student — Community Informatics

RymH, Graduate Student/Instructor at University of Missouri — Columbia, at 9:17 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Thank you, Ms. Nathan.

As someone who will start teaching Biology 101—for the first time—in a few ever-shortening weeks, I’d like to thank you for doing this research. I look forward to reading your book.

Obviously, I have so little teaching experience, I’m naive and idealistic to the point of stupidity. Which may be why I say things like what I’m about to write here: It may be the case, as some of your ciritcs here have written, that students are lazy, vapid, shallow, unprepared. None of that changes the fact that one’s job, as a professor, is to teach them. Bitching about how students *should* be does not improve teaching effectiveness. But the kind of research you have done, Ms. Nathan, very well could. My job this fall will be to teach biology to real freshmen, not to hold forth on my pet topics to imaginary idealized freshmen who hang on my every word. Any help I can get in understanding those real freshmen will help me do my job. So I thank you for your attempt to increase that understanding.

One final note, regarding pseudonyms and identity: I am skeptical that any real book critic with access to pre-publication proofs of “Undercover Freshman” would be unable to spell the words “maven” and “galleys.”

Rachel R, future biology prof, at 10:01 pm EDT on July 13, 2005

Rachel, From my perspective, it is not the job of a college professor to make the lazy motivated or the unprepared prepared. By the time people get to college they should be disciplined and intellectual enough to handle learning new subjects on their own. Every years thousands of kids send in applications explaining how intellectual and smart they are. A few months later they are grubbing for grades, not caring about learning for its own sake and partying. In essence, they lied. But, these lies seem to be accepted in our culture. But I like your wide-eyed idealism. It will last about three more months.

Snoop, Thanks for contributing to the discussion of this book. Your comments were quite insightful. Using your comments I am sure that we will better understand 1) the proper mode of research into our contemporaries; and 2) how to improve dorm life on campuses.

If you must ask, I am not a “trial” lawyer. I have never first-chaired a jury trial, and, as I said, I mainly represent institutions (including universities). Though I have been on the other side on occasion. I figure, since I have difficult relating to members of the public on a personal level, it is probably best that I stay away from you people. But, at least I know my limits.

As to why I am interested in academic politics. Likewise, from time to time I teach graduate courses, and I contribute to legal academic discourse. Indeed, I recently co-authored a piece with a non-legal academic. I also have a graduate degree in a non-law field, as do most of my colleagues.

How I allocate my time is really no concern of yours, Mr. Dogg. I hope that your next “Girls Gone Wild” video, filmed at a party school (which will, of course, deny that it is a party school) goes well.

Larry, Human Punching Bag, at 6:29 am EDT on July 14, 2005

thoughts

As a student affairs administrator overseeing health promotion and education programming, and having taught our Freshmen Seminar course, much of the book was not surprising or shocking to me. However, I can tell you that there are faculty on my campus who would be shocked. While there are some great faculty who visit residence halls, eat in the student union, etc., I am surprised at how many faculty and staff (our health service docs and nurses included) who have no idea how to give directions to the library or union, because they park their car, walk to thier building, go off campus for lunch, etc. They view campus based on their experiences, or thier percieved experiences. its for this reason, campus life was so shocking to the author, and why some faculty find it so enlightening.

esdavidson, EIU, at 5:15 am EDT on April 10, 2008

Professor Nelson,

Rest assured that her pseudonym won’t protect her (or her publisher) from lawsuits. However, I am somewhat doubtful as to whether the plaintiffs will be able to make it past a motion to dismiss. I could give you my analysis of why I think this is so, I don’t feel like being insulted this early in the morning by the anti-intellectuals on here. Of course, many university GCs may err on the side of caution in giving prospective advice, and tell future anthropologists not to do this.

Larry, at 9:27 am EDT on July 14, 2005

More on research ethics

It may be helpful to re-frame the research ethics discussion in response to this article in terms of deception.

What was the plan for debriefing the participants after the study’s conclusion? Were they de-briefed? Was this plan included in the protocol reviewed by the IRB? Does the IRB include a member well-versed in the use of deception in research?

Dr. RingDing, at 10:57 am EDT on July 14, 2005

Worthwhile Research

Honestly I don’t see the ethical dilemma Ethics Mavin [sic] seems so eager to pursue—granted, I’m not an anthropologist. If “Rebekah Nathan” were a 50-something housewife or journalist who decided to do the exact same project and obtained permission from her fellow students to publish their interviews, would the ethical issues be the same? How is it unethical for Nathan to write about details of casual conversations she had—isn’t that standard procedure in most memoirs? Is it bad for a professor to do the same thing because she “ought to know better”? This seems a rather haughty position—and isn’t that the purpose of a review board to begin with?

As a graduate student and soon-to-be TA I’m also interested in reading more from Nathan’s book about what might make students more likely to react and participate fully in the material I’m trying to get across.

Since there has also been some discussion about Student Life, let me contribute my own conspiracy theory: I believe part of the reason Student Life has become so important is that universities are trying to enhance the extracurricular experience as much as possible in order to boost their students’ positive associations and down the road improve their alumni contributions (and U.S. News ranking). Almost every Student Affairs survey I ever took left me with the impression that my university didn’t really care too much about my day-to-day experience at school but rather was keeping its eye on my future earnings.

I have to add that David Kalsbeek’s comments about the findings of his SLU study ring incredibly true. I met a guy my first week at college (in 1995) and saw him get started on a pattern of binge drinking on the second or third night of orientation. I was not very surprised when he dropped out of school at the start of sophomore year.

Also, there are many students who will never be interested in the “Student Affairs community-building agenda” but who could still benefit from some of the services that fall under that rubric… so how exactly can the university let them know what’s available? I think that’s an important dilemma to try to resolve.

Adrian Seath, Graduate Student, at 12:49 pm EDT on July 14, 2005

Whew, a lot of heat generated herein. An academic writer, usually condemned to relative obscurity & indifference, should be excited that such feelings are stirred. The tone has been unpleasant in part — no surprise to anyone who ever spent time in a Faculty Senate, but so uncivil! Reminds me of something James March wrote, that we must be “unwilling to gamble that God made clever people uniquely virtuous.”

I taught only grad students for a decade plus, and then came to teaching undergrads at TCU 13 yrs ago. I was unprepared — I didn’t understand them or their lives, for the most part. I realized most were not like me, nor were they like me as I had been as an undergrad. I needed information.

I got involved in co-curricular activities, such as leadership groups, frosh camps, sponsoring organizations, being a faculty mentor for a dorm, etc. Those contexts removed my power to grade and opened the curriculum to more issues, as many initiated by the students as by me. I had to be more fluid and adaptive. I sometimes felt out of place and awkward. My relationships were not equal, but kids could walk away or ignore me for the most part. I learned a lot about them and myself.

Since coming to TCU, I’ve had 2 children, 2 step-children and various surrogate children attend where I teach. I believe I’m a better father due to these experiences of “teaching w/out a podium.” I know I’m a better teacher, in & out of the classroom.

I don’t recommend this choice for all colleagues. I don’t think all would find this book useful. I will. I also recommend Big Questions, Worthy Dreams: Mentoring Young Adults in Their Search for Meaning, Purpose, and Faith by Sharon Daloz Parks.

I love teaching and find undergrads frustrating, elusive, self-engrossed, and often quite wonderful. Herbert Kohl wrote that it’s the duty of any teacher to make no final judgments about what a young person is capable of.

Mike Sacken, Teaching Outside the Classroom at TCU, at 1:04 pm EDT on July 14, 2005

a student’s perspective

Mike, as a very recent graduate, I want to say thanks for the kind of openness to undergrads that you and other professors like you and this article’s author have shown. The professors who made the most difference in my past four years were those who I interacted with both inside AND outside of the classroom through extracurriculars, leadership and volunteer activities.

In addition, many student affairs professionals helped me in more ways than I can count, and I hope some of them are reading this so they know that despite comments like Tom’s and Larry’s, they ARE valued by the students they help. I didn’t need them to babysit me, clean up after me, or tell me what to think. They helped me develop as a leader of my organizations, guided me in my career explorations, and provided a supportive and enjoyable housing experience for my first two years.

I would want Rebekah Nathan or Mike Sacken as a professor a hundred times more than someone who scorns the student life sector of a university. Having a doctorate and tenure does not make you equipped to understand how to relate to college students, and since some professors don’t try to learn, student life departments are essential. If I knew that a professor of mine spoke as condescendingly and self-righteously about student affairs professionals as Tom does, I would conclude that he understands little of the undergrad experience as I have lived it. Unless it is really the case that at his school (both his own alma mater and his place of work) the student affairs staff makes undergraduate life “unbearable.” If that’s the case, I feel very sorry for those students because it does not have to be that way by any means.

Leslie, 2005 graduate, at 3:41 pm EDT on July 14, 2005

Bart, What are you talking about ? There are many ongoing lawsuits involving law schools. If you are referring to FAIR v. Rumsfeld (which is the one that seems to be getting the most press at the moment) I don’t see how that is relevant. So, perhaps you could provide a few more specifics so that we could continue the conversation.

Larry, at 8:26 am EDT on July 15, 2005

What is your problem Bart? FAIR v. Rumsfeld is a challenge to the Solomon amendment.

You knew that.

But what in god’s green earth does this have to do with Nathan’s book ?

Larry, at 8:53 am EDT on July 15, 2005

Where attorneys in university sector should hang-out

http://www.nacua.org/aboutnacua/index.asp

Gotta go. Night game.

Bart, at 9:21 am EDT on July 15, 2005

Actually, Lar ...

“Second of all, nowhere in the article you cite does it say that the law schools that employ the professors were anonymous. You made that up.”

As to the point about anonymity: one of the funniest, most laughable things reported in Solomon/law schools issue, is how some law schools, fearing retribution from federal education officials, have remained anonymous. Kafka would have loved it.

Your supervising partner, or managing partner needs information about higher ed, have them go to: http://www.nacua.org/aboutnacua/index.asp. That’s because academics don’t argue cases; we take subjects and collegial them to death, dude.

Bart, at 9:38 am EDT on July 15, 2005

Tapping Student Culture

Did your in-class examples or illustrations change as a result of your experience?

As I grow older, I’ve found the cultural references and formative experiences that are so vivid to me elicit only quizzical stares from students. But my attempts to use analogies or stories from contemporary pop-tech culture also elicit stares (perhaps students are embarrassed by a professor in his fifties trying to be “with it” or, also likely, they are unfamiliar with that particular segment of pop culture—it’s clear that saying “that book had more revisions than a wiki!” or “that account is about as credible as Ananova!” doesn’t clarify at all).

Is there help for those of us not living in the dorms? What can we do to make our illustrations relevant to our students?

Dan Barnett, Philosophy Instructor at Butte College, at 11:12 am EDT on July 19, 2005

Some comments on ethics in this discussion

I have been asked by a couple of colleagues to look at this web site, because of my interest and involvement in research ethics. Having briefly threaded through some of the discussions, I feel obligated to comment on the ethical elements of this discussion, in addition to weighing in on some of the issues.

First, given several of my comments below, I feel I should introduce myself, so that others can judge the framework I am will be using in this discussion. I am Professor of Anthropology at Northern Arizona University with about 30 years of field research experience in medical anthropology, migrant education, alcohol and drug studies, and corporate anthropology. This semester I have been elected chair of the IRB for NAU, and have served on the IRB for about 3 years total. . I teach one of the few formal ethics courses available in anthropology departments, called Anthropological Research Ethics. I am an advocate of strong, evidence based, and thorough ethical review of anthropological research. I am also a strong advocate of anthropological research in general and don’t feel it should be inappropriately attacked by using ethical hyperbole to support ideological agendas that are anti-science in their intent. I have three comments on the nature of the discussion on the website that I feel I should present, before entering this discussion.

1. Anonymity here is the ethical equivalent of virtual mob violence and incitement to riot.

My first comment is that a number of individuals appear to be trying to use an ethics “debate” to push their own ideology and biases, unethically. I found a significant number of the postings on this site drip vitriol and attempt to create a negative emotional appeal to virtual mob violence (the “we are going to hurt you for this crowd”). This is called flaming, and on most sites is considered rude at best and unethical where the intent is to harm from the cloak of anonymity. Please note that the most threatening and reprisal oriented comments on this site are from anonymous or odd pseudonym contributors. I would recommend discounting anything said from the unethical cloak of anonymity in this type of discussion. Even whistle blowers have to stand up and identify themselves. If you want to threaten someone, don’t hide behind your terrorist ski mask. It is interesting that the numerous defenses of the research and the ethical approach taken by Nathan in this forum are from individuals who identify themselves and their views.

2. There is a serious lack of factual material in most of the postings, which violates the basic principles set forth both by Patty Marshall’s Ethical Workup Guide, and by the AAA committee on ethics. Both of these credible sources require that you work from the facts and the principles, not just from second and third tier interpretations. The book was released yesterday, and I know I haven’t had a chance to read it yet, but this debate has been going on for days based on not much more than sensational headlines and a few emotional trigger words such as “undercover,” that are another discipline’s (mass media) interpretation of the research ethics, not that of anthropology or IRBs.. Since the book has an entire chapter devoted to discussing and justifying the methodological approaches (note pleural) that were used, it will be interesting to see how this discussion changes (or fails to change) based on more than concern created by deliberately provocative press.

3. This is a very important discussion, regardless of the ultimate resolution of this particular case. Some of the issues cut to the heart of anthropology as a research enterprise. They should definitely be explored, addressed, debated, and publicly posted as the consensus view of anthropologists. I plan on having my next ethics class review this debate, and, using the appropriate guidelines and processes, comment on both the process and the factual basis for the discussion and their eventual conclusions. In the interest of appropriate disclosure, please be assured that if the class decides to use this discussion as a case exercise, we will follow all appropriate ethical procedures in gaining access to the information on this and other sites (not difficult since this is a public forum), and will take appropriate actions for the protection of individual identity, institutional identity, etc.

I am looking forward to following the discussion and commenting on the facts of the issues being discussed.

Bob Trotter

Robert Trotter, Regent’s Professor at Northern Arizona University, at 10:45 am EDT on August 4, 2005

Oh, the irony!

Seconding Bob Trotter’s comment, I find it incredible that folk like “Ethics Mavin” anonymously attack Ms Nathan for conducting and publishing her research anonymously. The sheer hypocrisy of this astounds me.

It is a known fact that, especially in soft sciences like anthropology and psychology, the researcher has to be careful not to influence the results of the research by giving too much information to the subjects. Give the lady some credit — it will have been this kind of judgment which ruled her final decision. Ethically, enough information must be given, but practically, not too much!

And to be sure, much of what’s reported in the article isn’t exactly an incredibly new piece of research, in the sense that a half-hour conversation with any undergraduate who’s lived in halls will tell you much the same things, but it *is* a new perspective. How many other anthropologists have taken the time to study a cultural group which is right on their doorstep?

Phil Walker, Undergraduate at University of York, UK, at 5:58 am EDT on August 11, 2005

I hope Ms. “Nathan” is punished for her flagrant ethical violations. Next time you want to use human lives as gristle for your writing mill, maybe you’ll think again.

John Doe, Professor of Anonymity at Erewhon College, at 7:21 pm EDT on August 20, 2005

N.A.U. Has Been Providing Cover for Ms Small

Scroll up the page and read Robert Trotter’s remarks concerning Small’s research. What Trotter didn’t disclose is that he knew all along that Small was the author of this book, nor did he disclose his own relationship to Small and the book. Trotter tries to justify Prof. Small’s questionable research by citing his own “ethics” research for business and industry. Trotter was not giving objective, disterested views on this topic: he was secretly defending his colleague and his own institution that somehow approved this research project.

Susan Nelson, Professor, Anthropology, at 6:36 pm EDT on August 25, 2005

A Troubling Study

I followed a link from one of the blogs discussing Small&rsqu