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Common Ground on Intelligent Design

October 7, 2005

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The heads of the Universities of Kansas and Idaho recently declared in open letters that “intelligent design” is not appropriate material in science classrooms.

While scientists agree, many faculty members in natural science departments around the country see little need for an administrative decree, because, as Neal Simon, chair of biological sciences at Lehigh University, put it: “The scientific community has recognized that this is a social and political issue … and that this is not science.”

Proponents of “intelligent design” like to boast that scientists at secular universities back their views. But interviews with some of those professors suggest that even they go out of their way not to teach it in science courses.

Michael Behe, a Lehigh biology professor, is a proponent of “intelligent design.” Behe has a disclaimer on his own site informing readers that his ideas are not endorsed by the university, and that, “in fact, most of my colleagues in the department strongly disagree with them.” The department posted its own statement, identifying Behe as the “sole dissenter,” and pledging “unequivocal...support of evolutionary theory.”

Behe said he briefly makes some “skeptical noises” when the book in his biochemistry class talks about the origins of life. But otherwise, “we talk about gene duplication and protein evolution, but we don’t deal with organismal evolution,” he said, so there really is no jumping off point for any controversy.

Behe also teaches a freshman seminar called “Popular Arguments on Evolution.” In that class, students read authors both in favor and against evolution by natural selection. The class is currently being reviewed by a faculty committee, and may be placed under a different department. Simon noted that Behe is a scientist, and understands that his feelings about intelligent design are not a pertinent topic in biochemistry, and thus are not treated as such in the classroom.

Robert Disilvestro, a professor of human nutrition at Ohio State University, has a chance to express his support of intelligent design when he talks about electrolyte balance. Some textbooks note that electrolytes are balanced in humans the way they are because we evolved from the sea. “I pretty much just leave it out,” Disilvestro said of a discussion on alternative theories of evolution.

Disilvestro, is, however, involved in a controversy over a graduate student. In June, Ohio State called off a dissertation defense by a graduate student whose work sought to legitimize intelligent design, and whose committee had the only two faculty members who have spoken in defense of intelligent design. Disilvestro was on the dissertation committee, and said he does expect the waters to be roiled when the university eventually figures out how to handle the situation. Disilvestro said he has never been pressured by his department as to what to teach, but that he does not see the discussion as an essential component of his class.

Earle Holland, senior director for research communications at Ohio State, said the departments trust their faculty members to “teach what is appropriate,” and that a specific topic would only be addressed if someone made a complaint, which no one has. Holland added that, at a place as large as Ohio State, with great diversity among faculty members in every department, trying to control details of classroom instruction on any topic would be like “herding cats.” Added Holland, “It’s not a question of whether intelligent design should be taught. It’s what role does it have in science instruction. People can believe what they want to believe, but testability and reproducibility … is dogmatically required.”

As far as what is pertinent in the classroom, said Disilvestro, “there really isn’t a controversy.” Mark Failla, chair of the human nutrition department, said he would discuss it with Disilvestro if a student complained, “just as I would if any professor were making routinely political statements,” Failla said, but he has not had to do so. “We’re not talking about Darwin, we’re talking about how molecules interact.”

Failla said that, while in high schools teachers may discuss ideas about origins, university professors realize that “theory” does not mean the same thing to a scientist as it does “when most people say, ‘I have a theory on that.’” He said that, “on the typical secular campus” professors realize that physical science classes are taught based on empirical evidence. “I just don’t see scientists get hung up on this, even at Notre Dame.”

He’s right. “I think [faculty members] feel it’s not a controversy. They believe evolution is a scientifically valid process, with a testable hypothesis,” said Charles Kulpa, chair of biological science at the University of Notre Dame. “It hasn’t been an issue here. If it comes up, it’s up to the instructor to deal with it.” Many people interpreted Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn’s comment to The New York Times in July, that an “unguided, unplanned process of natural selection” was not “true,” to mean that the Vatican no longer accepted the theory of evolution as compatible with Roman Catholic teachings. Cardinal Schoenborn has since distanced himself from the comment, but maintained that evolutionary theory cannot disprove the existence of a creator.

J. Michael Mullins, a biology professor at Catholic University of America, said, “There certainly has been no controversy here. Science is in the realm of science, and others things can be in the appropriate realm.” Mullins said he thinks any notion that there is a controversy is just spillover from discussion in school boards and that “it simply hasn’t been an issue here. I take a bit of time when I teach evolution for entering freshmen. I say ‘Other ideas are not scientifically based, so they don’t belong in our discussion.’"

Ralph Seelke, a biology professor at the University of Wisconsin at Superior, said, like many of the biology professors interviewed, that the topics in a college science course are usually narrow enough that talk about origins is irrelevant. Seelke, a proponent of intelligent design, said he “has no compunction in using the ‘D-word’” when I talk about a certain process.” But Seelke said he recognizes that ideas about ultimate origins “are opinions,” and that he thinks “it is appropriate to identify that this is my opinion, if the opinion differs from others.”

The head of Seelke’s department would not comment, but Seelke, who noted that he has tenure, said he has never felt pressured as to how to run his classroom. He does, though, think “it’s hilarious that our department has gone on record supporting the [American Association for the Advancement of Science] view on intelligent design, that it shouldn’t be taught. That’s highly against the spirit of science. We don’t vote on theories. They essentially either arise because of the weight of evidence or fall.”

Failla, like the majority of scientists interviewed, including many of those who believe intelligent design is correct, said that it’s hard to even pinpoint the controversy because ideas about creators are simply untestable and beyond science. “I’m just a dumb scientist,” Failla said. “I don’t understand these things. They’re opinions.”

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Comments on Common Ground on Intelligent Design

  • Schoenborn?
  • Posted by Cathy Young at Reason Magazine on October 7, 2005 at 7:28am EDT
  • The article says Cardinal Schoenborn has "distanced himself" from his seemingly anti-evolution statement in the New York Times and has modified his position to say that evolution cannot disprove the existence of a Creator. Very interesting; where can I find some information on that?

  • I Understand
  • Posted by Donnell , Civil Engineering (Structures) Graduate at Georgia Instititute of Technology on October 7, 2005 at 7:28am EDT
  • As a professional and as a secularly educated individual, I have to admit that the testable portion of science should take precedence in a university science class.

    The science professor is not responsible for answering questions outside of the scope of science and I admit that. Nonetheless, the testable and emperical portions of evolution belong in the classroom.

    Therefore, even though students have a right to believe what they choose to, the science portion of evolution should take priority over competing theories in a science class.

    Arenas do exist for open discussion on the Theories of Origins and those should be kept in courses designed for such.

    In sum, if the question arises about the holes that exist within the theory of evolution, as noted in the article, science professors can present their opinions but don't have to.

    Regards, Donnell Duncan, President and Founder, The Cracked Door, "If the Door is Cracked, the Door is Open."

  • Posted by Peter Sayles on October 7, 2005 at 8:45am EDT
  • Of course evolution cannot disprove the existence of a creator. The theory does not address whether a creator exists or not. Moreover, the theory does not even address the origins of life.

  • Whew! Now that evolution's out of the way...
  • Posted by huntly on October 7, 2005 at 9:23am EDT
  • ...the truth can be told!

    All life began with the cosmic flatulence of an overindulgent deity known as Igmund Dunder, who wished to expel from his eternal Being the irritating pressure of undigested "matter" and "energy." However, in expelling the matter, Dunder also expelled tiny particles of his own essence that eventually found their way into the proteins and amino acids that make up the building blocks of organic life. Looking down at the results of his expulsion, Dunder declared, "What a mess! Get thee gone!" Thus began the cataclysmic originary event known as the Big Flush, which sent all matter and energy spinning through empty space at an ever-increasing velocity, creating stars, galaxies, and worlds along the way. The presence of tiny spirals and swirly patterns in even the smallest of natural objects gives testament to the existence of an Incontinent Designer that cannot be accounted for by "evolutionary theory."

    This, at least, is what I will teach in my classroom.

  • Schoenborn's climb-down
  • Posted by Leanne on October 7, 2005 at 10:14am EDT
  • Cathy, here are some of the reports regarding the Cardinal's qualifications of his previous comments, and links there in.
    http://www.stnews.org/commentary-1719.htm

  • ID vs Evolution
  • Posted by JD on October 7, 2005 at 11:24am EDT
  • Neither side of this argument has a strong enough case for it to be the sole theory taught in classrooms accross the country. Is it not ok for scientific community to say that they ccan't really provide signifianct enough evidence one way or the other so in fact "We don't know"? I think that a lot of people are scared to use these words, and quite frankly should be used more often. If you are not sure about something, don't provide others with an answer that you can't back up. Do the research and present the facts and feel free to interject your "personal conclusion" drawn from the evidence. Nobody is able to PROVE the begining of life, so we should allow people to study all of the current theories and choose what to believe for themselves. Because we don't know for sure, this requires faith, and that may be scary for some people to rely on faith whether it is faith in a higher power or faith in scientific theories.

  • Testability?
  • Posted by huntly's disciple , Sir at Yonder U. on October 7, 2005 at 11:24am EDT
  • "The entire universe--matter, energy, space and time--burst into existence about 15 billion years ago from what appears to be a singular point of infinite potential and impenetrable mystery."

    This is taken from:

    http://www.integralscience.org/genesis/genesis.html

    The name of the page: "Genesis: A Creation Story Inspired By Modern Physics."

    It's a very interesting story, and told with some humility and wonder. Now, test it. And tell me if it belongs in a classroom.

  • re: Common Ground on Intelligent Design
  • Posted by Earle Holland , Senior Director, Research Communications at Ohio State University on October 7, 2005 at 11:25am EDT
  • As we have pointed out repeatedly, your statement in this story and in one previously that "Ohio State called off a dissertation defense by a graduate student whose work sought to legitimize intelligent design, and whose committee had the only two faculty members who have spoken in defense of intelligent design," is factually incorrect!

    The student's dissertation defense was postponed by the student's advisor with the student's agreement. The university took no action delaying that process. The dissertation defense has so far not been re-scheduled.

    Disilvestro is one of three faculty on the student's dissertation committee. None of the three faculty have positions in the science education program. Program requirements mandate that two members of the committee must be on the science education faculty.

    The faculty's opinion on intelligent design have little to do with this situation.

    Lastly, your characterization of the student's research that "sought to legitimize intelligent design," is invalid since the dissertation is still a confidential student record until it is approved by the dissertation committee. Only the student and his committee are aware of what the dissertation actually entails.

  • Posted by Hans Gesund on October 7, 2005 at 1:23pm EDT
  • I repeat my previous questions: Where did the energy/matter come from that exploded in the "big bang" and created our known, ever expanding, universe? What laboratory has ever produced a living organism from inert matter? Until those questions can be answered, I believe some doubt in the theory of evolution is justified, and should at least be mentioned in science classes.

  • What is This Thing Called Science?
  • Posted by Charles Hackney , Psychology Professor at Redeemer University College on October 7, 2005 at 1:23pm EDT
  • "The scientific community has recognized that this is a social and political issue … and that this is not science."

    Hopefully, the "scientific community" will start reading enough philosophy of science to realize that science is deeply social and political.

  • Posted by Larry on October 7, 2005 at 1:23pm EDT
  • Earle, Are you really sure that dissertations are confidential student records ?

  • ‘Common Ground on Intelligent Design’
  • Posted by Earle Holland , Senior Director, Research Communications at Ohio State University on October 7, 2005 at 2:50pm EDT
  • At OSU, until the thesis or dissertation is approved by the final committee and accepted by the Graduate School, it is still considered a part of the student's records and is therefore confidential under the federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, or at least that is our policy in interpreting the law. As a part of institutional policy, all theses and dissertations are published after approval and at that point become accessible to the public.

  • Big Bang
  • Posted by Philip Wakeling at James Cook University on October 7, 2005 at 4:13pm EDT
  • Quantum mechanics clearly defines that what happened in the first 5.391x10exp-44 of a second after the big bang can not be known. Times shorter than the Plank Time are the realm of the Uncertainty Principle. After that, the physics of cosmology are well understood and have been tested. I think it is appropiate to discuss this small gap in our knowldege of the history of the universe in the classroom. Students can draw there own conclusions - as I have - as to what was going on before the big bang and during the first Plank time unit. We can never know for sure. As the Archbishop of Cantebury once said "It is religions job to describe the Who and the Why and science's job is to describe the How and the When".

  • Frame the Debate Properly, People
  • Posted by Andrew Purvis on October 7, 2005 at 4:22pm EDT
  • Thank you, Peter Sayles, for pointing out what too few people seem to be willing to address. Evolution does not now, nor has it ever, addressed the origins of life. ID cannot be held up as a competing idea to it, yet its supporters try desperately to do so. This might be acceptable if they recognized that science classrooms should deal not with hypotheses but with theories and laws. ID is an as yet untestable hypothesis.

    Donnell Duncan incorrectly uses the word "theory" (he uses the plural in posting above this, but the meaning still applies) incorrectly here, and he is not the only one guilty if such an unscientific use of language. JD does the same when he equates ID and evolution, yet ID and evolution do not have, within the framework of the scientific process, equal standing.

    Likewise, Hans Gesund asks a question that science can, at this stage, answer no better or worse than religion. He wants to know where "the energy/matter [...] that exploded in the 'big bang'" came from. Can he any better explain where any supreme being came from? No, he cannot.

    ID is not about evolution. The debate over whether or not to include it in science classes cannot move forward until the hypothesis oof Intelligent Design becomes a testable (falsifiable) theory and undergoes tests.

    This is not, nor has it ever been, about students' academic freedom. Students may pursue their own interests beyond those presented in classes, but it remains the sober responsibility of educators in the sciences to share what is known, not what is untestably hypothesized.

  • FERPA doesn't do what you think it does
  • Posted by Larry on October 8, 2005 at 8:16pm EDT
  • Earle, While many schools might seek to make dissertations confidential (probably to avoid embarrassment) there is nothing in the FERPA that explicitly prohibits the disclosure of student papers and dissertations (though some argue that some language could be stretched to mean that it covers this). While some schools err on the side of caution, the federal government has never investigated or disciplined (within the as provided for by FERPA) a school for releasing a dissertation without permission. There is no private right of action under the FERPA either.

    If you want to prove otherwise (with citations) go ahead.

  • Thanks Andrew
  • Posted by JD on October 8, 2005 at 8:16pm EDT
  • I find your witty analysis of the semantics in my comments to be quite entertaining. I never claimed to be a scientist, so please forgive me if I did not use the correct terminolgy for your liking. You know exactly what I am saying yet you keep avoiding answering the question. In your last comment, you talk about how we can not teach ID because it can not be tested. Ok, so please explain to me how Evolution can be tested. You have still yet again failed to prove any point. I am not suggesting that one side of the argument or the other is correct, however, since we can not prove it, don't limit what is taught in classrooms. You are in agreement with me that neither side can be confirmed as the correct explaination for the beginning of life yet you are asking your side to be the only thing taught in schools. I don't want ID to be the only thing taught in classrooms,nor do I want the big bang and or evolution to be the only thing taught.

  • JD
  • Posted by Andrew Purvis on October 9, 2005 at 4:38am EDT
  • I appreciate your witless analysis of what was in no way intended to be a "witty analysis." I am not a scientist, either, but I was required to learn about the scientific method in school. Indeed, science classes, when I was in school, taught science.

    Concerning the suggestion that we alter that by introducing ID into the science curriculum, let me clarify what I have already written. A hypothesis is a possible explanation of how things work, based upon how those things are observed to behave. For instance, one might conclude, seeing an object fall, that the Earth magnetically attracts objects to its surface. That is a hypothesis. Furthermore, one could construct an experiment to test that hypothesis and, most critical, a set of possible results that would prove the hypothesis wrong (falsifiability). We drop objects and recognize that they accelerate toward the Earth in keeping with an inverse square law of field strength (which supports the idea being tested) but that both metallic and non-metallic objects a) fall and b) fall at the same rate. This disproves the hypothesis. Had it survived a first set of tests, it would have been a theory and have been subject to more tests and scrutiny. Note that often the results lead not to falsification but adjustment of the underlying principles.

    Now, evolution can be falsified easily enough by finding evidence of a creature that cannot or did not develop from anything else. This is where Linnean taxonomy serves us well. By understanding the relationships between the plants, animals, viruses, and so forth that populate the kingdoms we now recognize (what is it, seven?), we can see if there are any that bear no connections and try testing them to see if they disprove evolution. Evolution has been shown via experimentation and is falsifiable. Thus, it qualifies as a theory.

    What, however, are the test conditions under which one might declare ID as falsified? I could not know "exactly what [you're] saying" unless you said what you meant. I, and others, was looking at imprecise language that was being used to make a hazy point in support of a fuzzy subject. This is precisly the problem, however: ID has even less focus and scientific precision than the language on which I commented earlier.

  • Posted by GT(N)T on October 9, 2005 at 10:37am EDT
  • JD writes: "Ok, so please explain to me how Evolution can be tested."

    JD, pick up a biology journal, any biology journal. The articles in these journals describe tests of evolutionary theory. Thousands of studies have been published on laboratory and field research into genetic bases for evolution, mutation, adaptation, interactions among organisms, extinction, and myriad subjects all pertinent to evolution. Hypotheses are posited, tested, and the results published in peer-reviewed journals.

    ID, on the other hand, has only one hypothesis, 'God did it'. That hypothesis may well be true, but it is untestable. It has no place in the science classroom.

  • Posted by Emanuel Goldstein , How to falsify ID on October 9, 2005 at 10:37am EDT
  • Here is how to falsify ID.

    Experimentally recreate life by a mindless unplanned process.

    Do that, and ID is falsified.

  • Posted by GT(N)T on October 9, 2005 at 2:37pm EDT
  • "Here is how to falsify ID. Experimentally recreate life by a mindless unplanned process. Do that, and ID is falsified."

    Just because life is created in a naturalistic experiment doesn't prove that it can't also be created by an intelligent designer. ID cannot be falsified.

  • re: FERPA doesn’t do what you think it does??
  • Posted by Earle Holland , Senior Director, Research Communications at Ohio State University on October 10, 2005 at 10:13am EDT
  • Larry:

    I have three university lawyers -- who happen also to be assistant state's attorneys general -- who have interpreted FERPA as I outlined, so I think I will follow their guidance. YOu are right that there is no provision in FERPA for a private action -- which means I personally can't be sued for violating it -- but that's not the point. The point is that at OSU, until it is approved and accepted, we consider a student's thesis or dissertation as part of the academic record and therefore confidential. You seem to be suggesting that we ought to release this info since the likelihood of being sued is low. Instead, we prefer to defer to what we consider the more responsible action, that is, insuring student records security when there is a doubt. Of course, the student can easily waive these protections and free us to release those records if he so chooses. Unfortunately, that has not happened as yet. And lastly, this has nothing to do with embarrassment and everything to do with the spirit intended in the law. Once the dissertation is approved -- if it is -- it becomes a public document. That is OSU policy!

  • Come on, get serious
  • Posted by James on October 10, 2005 at 7:12pm EDT
  • Hurricanes, earthquakes, germs, parasites, birth defects and numerous other natural disasters and maladies are evidence of Intelligent Design? Does anyone really believe that the reason snakes crawl is that God had a tantrum several thousands years ago and is still taking it out on the descendents of that ancient snake (see the Book of Genesis)? Is that also the reason women know pain in childbirth and men know death (ibid)? How absurd.

  • More on the FERPA
  • Posted by Larry on October 11, 2005 at 7:10pm EDT
  • Earle, The fact that state AGs usually provide legal counsel to public universities doesn’t make the opinion any more or less valid than if they were in private practice. While I accept that it is the practice at your university (and others) to interpret FERPA that way, you still have not provided the relevant text which states that a student thesis must be kept away from the public. Of course you can (and should) follow their guidance, but that doesn’t make it correct, and it doesn’t mean that if the federal government actually tried to enforce it against you that the courts would agree with their interpretation.

    The issue isn’t whether or not you, personally, could be sued for violating FERPA, but whether a student that has his thesis publicized (by a school that doesn’t mind being embarrassed) could sue the school. Supreme Court said no in Gonzaga U v. Doe, 536 U.S. 273 (2002).

  • well...
  • Posted by A biochemist... on October 12, 2005 at 9:35pm EDT
  • You’re all completely retarded
    What has intelligent design given us?
    NOTHING
    NOT A THING
    So? What does it prove?
    NOTHING
    Can it be disproved?
    NO
    Can anything be gained from saying "we don't know and we don't to know so god"?
    NO

    Ok...I've made my point

    Intelligent design should be taught in a philosophy class, though I don't think it's even worthy of that.
    Anyone who wants to teach it in a science class is either a fundamentalist Nazi or just plain stupid.

    Thank you.

  • Posted by narendran , common ground for intelligent design on October 13, 2005 at 6:54am EDT
  • I am on the side of intelligent design but, well,I believe the intelligent designer is a Hindu God.

  • god is pretend
  • Posted by gary wilson on October 17, 2005 at 7:16pm EDT
  • Just because we don't understand everything doesn't mean ID is therefore true or worthy of consideration. The vikings didn't understand thunder, so said Thor did it. "GOD" is a human construct conceived just for this reason; to explain the otherwise unexplainable. It's not that we can't explain, just that we don't know enough yet. Don't bail out and give up and say "God did 't". That is for little minds.

  • Posted by Dan on November 2, 2005 at 9:55am EST
  • An interesting thing to me appears in the Bible during the six days of creation. Something that no one discusses. Look at the chronology of howe things came into existance and then look at today's scientific theories from the beginning to now. I find it very compelling that Genesis was written somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 years ago and it has only been recently in modern science that we have developed the same chronology. For even a 1,000 years after this was written Aristotle was talking about how the sky was held together with crystal or glass balls. So you must ask yourself, if the book of Genisis is correct chronologically, where did they get there knowledge from. Because the odds of this being an educated guess do not support this being a guess at all.

  • Dan
  • Posted by Chuck on November 2, 2005 at 4:03pm EST
  • Actually, that's not an uncommon observation. Many scientists seem to disregard it as philosophy and irrelivant to their work, and bible-thumpers ignore it because it implies that Genesis is allegorical, rather than literal truth.