Oct. 27, 2005

Dumb and Dumber

By mid-October, the leaves on campus are turning, homecoming games are being celebrated, and — at any number of colleges — bigotry in one form or another hurts some students deeply.

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A group of students at the University of Chicago held a “ghetto” party in which some students dressed in stereotypical clothing. Photos circulated on the Internet, and the university is now organizing a town hall meeting and other discussions about racial insensitivity.
At Colorado State University, a student group trying to protest a state referendum did so with an image of a lynching. After the use of lynching imagery angered minority students and led the president to send an e-mail to all students and faculty members, the group apologized.
At Syracuse University, a student-produced television show — since killed — offended many with jokes about rape and cruel comments about the bodies of members of various minority groups. The students behind the show said that they were just trying to be funny.
At Vanderbilt University, fraternity members left the head of a pig outside a Jewish student center. The fraternity said that the act was not anti-Semitic and that the intended target was the center’s vegetarian café.

And Monday is Halloween, a holiday that has in recent years sparked controversies at numerous campuses after white students attend parties dressed as illegal immigrants, in blackface, or in various other ways that offend.

However sincere the apologies are from those responsible for these and many other incidents, they raise the question of why — year after year — students are so hurtful about race, and are then surprised when someone is hurt. Experts on student life and race relations offer a variety of explanations and views.

Many say that the students who offend today aren’t just younger versions of those who were doing racist things on campuses a decade ago or as some campuses first integrated. Rather, they say that today’s students — and the ignorance many of them display — are the products of an unusual time in which minority culture is omnipresent, but more and more white high school students have no significant interaction with anyone of another race.

“We all assume that more progress has been made than has really been made,” says Beverly Tatum, president of Spelman College. A psychologist and the author of Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria and Other Conversations About Race, Tatum says: “While colleges and universities are more diverse today than they were 20 or 30 years ago, that isn’t true for public schools, many of which are more segregated. So you have a lot of young people growing up in racially segregated schools and their only exposure to other groups comes from stereotypes in the media.”

Popular culture gives these students — many of whom are clueless about those who are different from themselves — a false sense of race relations, says Charles A. Gallagher, an associate professor of sociology at Georgia State University who studies white attitudes about race.

“People who are 18 to 20 have been raised in a cultural environment with ‘Cosby Show’ re-runs, hip hop, identifying with black characters, they have gone through the multicultural training — for whatever it’s worth — in school,” he says. “They have the perception that they are not only not racist, but they share a kind of social space with non-whites through the media, so they think race doesn’t matter anymore, which just isn’t the case.”

“These pranks reflect the students’ idea that we are in a post-race society and we can make fun of everyone, and make fun of everything,” Gallagher says. “So they don’t see the difference between a ‘ghetto’ party and a toga party.”

Not only are students unaware of the feelings of minority students, many have so little sense of history that they don’t know instinctively that images like lynching aren’t going to be looked at casually by black people. And for all the talk about how colleges these days focus on multiculturalism, experts points out that most white students never study minority history in a sophisticated way or have any sustained focus on race relations.

“It’s true that colleges do a lot more than they used to, and that’s a good thing, but at most places, those efforts aren’t as extensive as you might think,” says Amanda Lewis, associate professor of African-American studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago and co-author of Challenging Racism in Higher Education: Promoting Justice. “Maybe they do something that first weekend during orientation. But for most students, they come in, go to the diversity session, and then move on with their lives.”

Even students who seek out information about minority groups know very little going in, she says. Lewis teaches a 200-level course on racial and ethnic history, and many students start with a “very superficial” knowledge of key events, she says. In elementary and high school, “they learn a little about slavery and a little about Martin Luther King,” Lewis says, and their overall “historical amnesia” means that they don’t understand why race matters.

While Tatum, of Spelman, agrees that many students are ignorant, she also says that there are students who intentionally seek to hurt. “Certainly there is thoughtlessness,” she says. “But we’re also in a climate in our society that is supportive of harassing events. Listen to talk radio. We are at this moment in a time when people feel free to make these kinds of comments.”

Caryn McTighe Musil, vice president for diversity, equity and global initiatives at the Association of American Colleges and Universities, also sees societal changes playing a role in the campus climate. “We’ve gone through a political period in the country where we have drifted away from a focus on social conscience and social responsibility,” she says. “We have been counseled from a variety of locations — political, corporate, elsewhere — to think about what I am and what I need, not about others. I think that feeds into it.”

Others point to other kinds of context in understanding these incidents. George Kuh constantly reviews data about student attitudes through his work with the National Survey of Student Engagement, which is conducted by the Indiana University Center for Postsecondary Research, which he directs. Survey results indicate that students become less comfortable as they enroll at colleges “where the racial complexity increases.” While their comfort level increases over time, that’s not the case initially, he says.

In such an environment, some students spend their social time with people like themselves. Those who are most likely to start one of these incidents, he says, are male, are in their first two years of college, and are in fraternities or other groups where there is “peer pressure to act out on those who are different.” Add alcohol, and these incidents aren’t that surprising, he says. (Jon Williamson, executive vice president of the North American Interfraternity Conference, says he is “not aware of any studies or data” that show that these incidents are more likely to involve fraternity members and calls that suggestion “a stereotype.")

Adds Kuh: “There are a lot of things colleges can control, but can you control what happens at 2:30 in the morning? Not any more,” he says.

Kuh stresses that these demographic explanations in no way limit the moral responsibility of those who engage in racist acts. “These things are appalling,” he says. “I’m not trying to be an apologist, but in understanding these events, you need to look at the circumstances,” and many of these incidents involve “18 and 19 year old men who aren’t in a position for reflective thought, who aren’t very good at thinking about putting themselves in the shoes of the other.”

Another key thing to remember, Kuh says, is that colleges’ student bodies are changing every year, so there is never a moment of success when administrators can feel that everyone understands all of these issues. “On a typical campus, about 35 percent of the people every year are brand new, and that is a lot of people to teach,” he says. “Every fall you are going to bring in a bunch of people who are feeling their way in terms of how to interact in a strange environment with others who are different.”

Kuh and others say that colleges need to beef up their orientation activities and the curriculum as it relates to issues of diversity.

Anne D. Neal, president of the American Council of Trustees and Alumni, is skeptical of dealing with these incidents by changing what students study. “How these incidents relate to the curriculum is not clear to me,” she says. But Neal says that colleges do have a chance — when incidents like these happen — to have discussions about ideas of tolerance of different people and different ideas.

With courts and public criticism limiting the use of speech codes — a trend Neal applauds — colleges can be constructive, she says. “When things are in bad taste and bad judgment, simply shutting them down without further discussion can potentially encourage more of these things, whereas taking the opportunity to talk with one another can be positive.”

The University of Chicago is trying to take such an approach. Stephen Klass, vice president and dean of students, says that one of the things that surprised him, when the “ghetto” party became known, was how common they are. (Someone suggested that he Google the term, and indeed a search indicates that the parties are everywhere, and offending people all over the place, too.) This suggests that lots of students don’t understand, not just those who organized one poorly thought-out event.

Klass says that the incident has led to broader discussions of issues of race, ethnicity and class in which minority students feel misunderstood. The university is planning a campuswide open meeting, to be followed by symposiums on relevant topics, and Klass says that he is proud Chicago is responding in a way that is consistent with its academic values.

“You find young, inexperienced majority students who just don’t understand,” he says. “We’re trying to help people understand.”

A broader focus — not just on those who engage in racist acts — makes sense, says Tatum. There are likely always going to be some students who might engage in these acts, and others who never would. Whether the acts take place or not may have a lot to do with the other people in the room when someone gets an idea to do something hurtful. Good college programs, she says, will let the student who is in the room know that there’s an obligation to say “don’t do that” or “that’s wrong” instead of just thinking it.

But Tatum says that such changes aren’t happening fast enough, and asked if we’ll continue to see racist incidents on campus, she says, “the sad answer is yes.”

“I am an optimistic person. I think there are lots of ways our society has improved and we can see opportunities for improvement,” Tatum says, “But at a certain level, there are still lots of young people being exposed to stereotypes and unless we are really intentional about interrupting that, it’s going go continue.”

She quotes the saying: “If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.”

— Scott Jaschik

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Comments

Here we go again!

Here we go again! First we admit students that want to spend their lives partying, and then we find a way to employ people that 1) pretend to analyze it; and 2) make a living letting other people declare that they are “offended.”

I am sure many people have parties mocking me, but somehow, I just don’t care.

Larry, at 7:17 am EDT on October 27, 2005

Irony of Kuh’s comments

There is an irony that Kuh’s comments are included in an article addressing how stereotypes continue to cause students pain, but yet he stereotypes fraternity members and their actions.

I applaud Inside Higher Ed for being thoughtful enough to include Williamson’s comments. There is some truth to the “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” analogy with the troubles Greek organizations have faced over the years, but the fact these students are in regulated student groups simply shines a much brighter light on their “smoke” than Joe Non-Greek Student’s identical activities.

In fact, if you follow Jaschik’s advice and Google “ghetto party” only one of the results on the first page is associated with a Greek group. This is far from a scientific example, but it would be interesting to see how close this is to the actual percentage of such culturally-insensitive events originating in Greek and Non-Greek students.

Devin Mathias, at 8:15 am EDT on October 27, 2005

Question Assumptions

The article — and most of its interviewees — appear to have the remarkable talent of divining exactly what the offending students were thinking when they did what they did.

Why is it the default assumption of the egghead set that every peurile attempt at humor is really an outrageous racist assault? What evidence do we have, outside the opinion of the professionally offended, that these students are actual bigots and racists?

Shouldn’t the response to a genuine bigot be different from someone (or some people) involved in a tasteless joke? Of course doing that means the dispersity office would lose both its opportunities to be righteously indignant and the attendant right to parlay that into loads program fees.

Stu Gittelman, at 8:19 am EDT on October 27, 2005

Great insight, President Tatum

“Certainly there is thoughtlessness,” she says. “But we’re also in a climate in our society that is supportive of harassing events. Listen to talk radio. We are at this moment in a time when people feel free to make these kinds of comments.” — President Tatum of Spelman College

The attitudes of students on college campuses only reflect the general attitudes of the wider society.

However, it is very disappointing that intelligent people think it is necessary to personally attack each other without any good reason.

Many people have little respect for the differences between each other. They spend so much time locked into their own social groups that they consider it ok to openly disrespect someone else.

Legislation on the college campus will do nothing to quell the flames of racial insensitivity because all of these actions are just manifestations of a state of mind.

If a man’s thinking is shallow and he considers it an honor to disrespect someone else then putting limitations on his actions will change nothing.

Great insight, President Tatum and may you continue to lead Spelman College to the heights of excellence.

Regards, Donnell Duncan, Founder and President, The Cracked Door, “If the Door is Cracked, the Door is Open”

Donnell, Civil Engineering (Structures) Graduate at Georgia Instititute of Technology, at 8:26 am EDT on October 27, 2005

this situation exists because racism is one of the major foundations upon which the country was founded. from its inception, and generation after generation, racism has co-existed beside (and in spite of) every achievement that has ever occurred. it’s so essential to national fabric that one can not imagine what the country would be like without “Dumb and Dumber.”

ra williams, at 1:04 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

The More Things Change...

After having attended & graduating from a few Research I institutions, I am well-aware of the racial insensitivity on campus. The reality is, no matter how hard the administration tries, whites cling to their privilege & their willingful ignorance is representative of that. Just as men don’t make attempts to really understand women — they are, after all, the status quo — those who are of the racial/ethnic majority choose to remain ambivalent about others’ existence & feelings. Their ambivalence so frees them of the obligations of having to be accountable & doing something about the injustices toward “others.”

Isn’t it interesting that films like “Crash,” that try to address these issues, are so poorly attended & supported? Point is, most of the people within the majority don’t want to know & don’t care. As long as they can watch BET & the hip-hop video programs on MTV & MTV2, they will swear to heaven that “they understand” or “they’re down.” They’ll still go buy that Lebron James jersey & play that 50 Cent cd (or iPod download) till the cows come home, convinced all the while that they’ve got a clue. Fact is, other than being a cultural oddity & commodity, African Americans & other ethnic minorities in this country have little or no value to the white establishment.

I say, maybe it’s time for “other” students to reconsider their options. Maybe instead they should re-segregate themselves, attending institutions where they’re the majority. Alas, this would cripple all those major institutions whose Division I, II earnings would be in ruins. Hurting them in their pockets is the only surefire way to ensure that they, too, will “get it.”

SAM, Adjunct Assistant Professor, at 1:04 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Reactionary Racism

The connection to talk radio also points to another source for this persistant racial insensitivity: political reactionary sentiment. Cultural conservatives who still wince under the “white man’s burden” of “political correctness” and increased racial awareness cultivate in themselves and their children a deep-seated resentment, defensiveness, and hostility that can only be expressed through off-color (so to speak) humor and racially provocative gestures or pranks. They feel that the revelation and understanding of America’s racist history has somehow exposed them, personally, to ridicule and mockery, and so they answer back with hateful humor of their own. It never occurs to them that it’s precisely that defensiveness, that denial, and that lack of understanding that keeps racial tensions alive and functioning in our society. No one wants to admit that they’ve been complicit in morally questionable behaviors and attitudes—better to mock those who remind them of it—but until they acknowledge that they share in the larger cultural disease of racism, they’ll continue to feel threatened and angry. This isn’t just a matter of young boys who don’t know any better—it’s a matter of an adolescent culture that does know better, but wants to remain childlike and “innocent” even in the face of its own guilt and irresponsibility. Freshman college students are encouraged to think of this time as a “last chance” at being kids, not having adult responsibilities, pushing the boundaries of acceptable behavior, and playing out these resentments that they’ve inherited from parents who aren’t allowed to play them out in the adult world. It’s all good and well for fraternities to claim that they don’t promote racism—but they do promote that adolescent mentality, the “in” and “out"-group structure, and the means and opportunity to “go wild” and still feel like part of a “brotherhood.” They may not be responsible for the undercurrent of racism, but they are responsible for letting it out—now they need to take responsibility for dealing with it maturely.

huntly, at 1:05 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

When considering the effect, it is irrelevant what the intent of offending party was. Not completely, but we have to look at what has taken place. It may not have been the intent of the students who left the pig at the Jewish student union to commit an anti-semitic act (because they ignorant of the fact that Jews don’t eat pork) but the effect, to anyone who is Jewish, is obvious. It creates an atmosphere where people feel unsafe and uprotected and it can cause major problems in the surrounding community.

Here is the question: If someone “didn’t mean it” but the local residents, campus communtiy members and others feel intimidated or threatened, or even endangered, does the fact that the student “didn’t mean it” matter? Should their punishment reflect their intent or should they be, as in most other areas of life, responsible for its effect?

This is the hardest question about the responsibility of the institution to educate or to consider the safety of its community. How far does a university need to go to educate its students who “didn’t mean it” due to cultural ignorance?

Seth Gordon, Intent is irrelevant at Antioch University, at 1:06 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Larry

Larry has an uncanny method for rebottling bigotry, exposing the very elements rifled in on by President Tatum. If the status quo is retained, then there is no hope for progress. Challenges and equal access to opportunities, alone, allow for the advancement of the mortal species in the evolution of time. “Humor” at the expense of another mortal is neither funny nor appropriate, and chiding someone’s dietary habit is as inane as categorizing based on race, sex, sexual preference, or other irrelevant criteria.

Arthur Ide, PhD, at 1:06 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

It isn’t funny

Jokes and being funny at expense of others is not part of the educational experience.

It is clear from those incidents at Chicago University, Colorado State University, Syracuse University and Vanderbilt University have crossed the educational line.

Those students should not get a pass, and the attitude of lets move on – must be rebuked, imagine if a swastika was painted – heads will roll [Great Britain is still apologizing because one of its prince wore a swastika arm band to a costume party]. However when it comes to African Americans everyone wants to make it – it was meant in fun – so no harm done – that is not acceptable.

As an African American I will not tolerate negative statements, actions, trash-talking,taunting – I expect mutual respect. It is clear those students do not reflect mutual respect of others regardless of their venerable background.

The udder that feeds racism and discrimination must be swiftly eradicated they have no place in educational institute.

David Robertson, Professor at SUNY, at 1:07 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

dressin’ ain’t easy

Just a thought: why is dressing as a pimp or a “ho” so bad. Sure, in the heyday of pimpin’ most pimps were African-American (the ‘hos were of diverse races, according to a book I read.) But, if people can dress as historical figure (famous or representative) why is it so bad to dress as a pimp.

First of all, according to some, the first African-American pimps in the US made quite a bit of money, which often set the Caucasians ill-at-ease, even though pimpin’ was definitely not an easy chore. Indeed, if I were one to use the word “empowering” I might say that pimps empowered many African-Americans. Later, there were Jewish pimps, but they just didn’t have the style that the African-American pimps did. However, both of these kinds of pimps have been immortalized in literature and plays. I am told that due to affirmative action there are now Thai pimps and Australian pimps, but I have never seen one.

Of course, many argue that pimpin’ is immoral. But so what ? Lots of things are considered immoral. For example, dressing as a stereotypical robber probably is a salute to immoral behavior. (In fact, I think that there is less disagreement over whether larceny is immoral then whether pimping is immoral (at the moment, larceny is illegal in 50 states, pimpin’ is legal in some jurisdictions), but I might be wrong on this.)

Since it is the fall season, my mailbox is overflowing with ads for various costumes. Apparently, if a woman dresses up as something for Halloween, she must dress up in a sexy manner. However, many people would argue that dressing up as ANYTHING sexy is immoral because it either means that a) nurses are naughty (i.e. immoral); or b) nurses hate feminism. Yet somehow, women are expected to dress in as immoral a manner as possible. Where are the protests against these strumpets ?

Or, if historical figures are your game, I probably should note that most historical figures were imperfect. Thomas Edison was a racist. George Washington owned slaves. Abraham Lincoln started the war between the states. Clinton had sex. Christ preached rebellion against a legal government. The Rockettes showed their legs.

So who is the one that gets to decide the right way to dress

Larry, at 1:08 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Post-race society

For many people, we do live in a post-race society of shared space and where it is acceptable to joke around about our own cultures and those of our friends. I fail to see why this should be discouraged.

Instead of telling people why they should be offended, we should be glad that they are not.

(I would, however, discourage fraternity stunts and so forth.)

Kevin, Undergraduate, at 1:10 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

“will not tolerate negative statements”

Professor Robertson, You write that you will “ will not tolerate negative statements, actions, trash-talking,taunting – I expect mutual respect.” What does this mean ? You will seek to have students expelled for saying “negative” things ? Does it mean that you will have students punished for expressing views that you don’t like ? Since when has your view of acceptable views and unacceptable views replaced the common practice of convincing people that their views are wrong.

I wish I could be like you and not tolerate a lot of things. For example, I really don’t like girls that deliberately show their underwear. There is a lot of this on college campuses. Now, if you were me, how would you go about not tolerating this. However, if someone wants to make an argument as to why the showing of underwear in public is good, or necessary (perhaps to find a husband) I would be subject to persuasion because, unlike you, I have an open mind.

Larry, at 1:54 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Re:

“Why is it the default assumption of the egghead set that every peurile attempt at humor is really an outrageous racist assault? What evidence do we have, outside the opinion of the professionally offended, that these students are actual bigots and racists?”

Why is your set, Stu Gittelman, unable to read carefully? The whole substance of the posted article is that the problem is a lot more subtle and complex than pure bigotry, and that students’ ignorance of history, a juvenile taste for offensiveness, and other factors are at play. Try to find one person in the article who makes the statement you attribute to the “egghead set.”

http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=516

hardboiled egghead, at 3:23 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

And what is wrong with saying “offensive” things ?

Larry, at 4:39 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Advice from Miss Manners

“As an African American I will not tolerate negative statements, actions, trash-talking,taunting – I expect mutual respect.”

Dr. Robertson and I are probably from different political parties. However, I think we agree on this: when ANY student uses language like “pimp,” “ho,” “b—-h,” “n——r,” and George Carlin’s famous 7 words, etc., we wince.

Is that kind of language necessary? Would he/she use that kind of language in a job interview? On the job?

If so, she/he should stop going to college — college will be a waste of money, because when she/he does use those words, there is a good chance, she/he will be fired. There isn’t a decent company that I know of that will tolerate that kind of behavior.

The cultural yahoo’s who excuse this uncouth behavior as post-modern reality ("I’m jest bein’ mysef") are the ones who ought to take responsibility for those unpleasant acts. They have no one to blame but themselves for being unemployable.

Heck, even Madonna, in her new MTV documentary, regretted her past acts of outrageousness/vulgarity. Isn’t there a lesson here?

A.D., at 5:09 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Response to Larry

The idea that pimping is empowering illustrates an absolute ignorance on literature surrounding the sex trade. ‘Pimp and Ho’ themed parties are not offensive because of moralistic attitudes towards sexuality but on a more fundamental level of what is actually a ‘pimp.’

Pimp is a nonracialised term used to refer to typically a man who lives off the avails of typically a woman who he directs and controls in the sex trade. He often demands that she brings back a certain amount of money, engage in particular sexual acts with clients, and often takes all of the money she earns. Of course the question then is why do many sex trade workers have pimps. The answer is complicated, perhaps too complicated for your mind to comprehend by allow me a brief try. Pimps prey on those with low self esteems, they often control the streets so working without a pimp in certain areas means that women will be beaten and/ or raped until they either leave or take a pimp. Although the pimp often controls her money, he also typically offers a place to live, drugs and ‘love.’ It is no surprise that many law enforcement teams arrest pimps instead of sex trade workers.

A, at 5:10 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Grow up

The “Larrys” of the world are as much of a problem as the overt racists, because they model both the indifference and the pseudo-logic needed to justify idiotic behavior and immaturity as just harmless fun, or worse, an inalienable “right.” Sure, people are allowed to make fools of themselves, say offensive things, and not care. But those same individuals shouldn’t be surprised when they’re condemned, sanctioned, mocked, or dismissed for what they do and say. The rest of society has a “right” to express its disapproval as well. On the other hand, people who care about their relationships to other people, about being respected and treated with dignity, about keeping their jobs and their status, might want to think about NOT asserting whatever “right” they think they have to boorish behavior. They might want to pause for a minute and ask themselves: “Can I come up with a party theme that isn’t racially loaded, insensitive, insulting, and immature? Do I have the intellectual and social capacity to have fun that’s not at someone else’s expense?” If these guys really earned their way into college, it shouldn’t be too difficult a task to transform that pimp costume into, say, a Mardi Gras costume...

This is not a question of being uptight, humorless, or overly sensitive and needlessly outraged. It’s a question of expecting supposed “adults” to act like adults and show some common sense. If you and your three buddies want to go in your room and tell racist jokes all night, have at it. But when you’re in public, behave like a civilized person, even if it pains you.

huntly, at 8:22 pm EDT on October 27, 2005

Thankfully all these white students had their racism squelched before they acted on it. Back when I went to college, racist jokes and random murders of non-whites were extremely popular, because no one was told to stop making jokes and/or tasteless comparisons of our political enemies to horrible racist crimes. Which naturally lead to mass killings and reprisals and various acts of terror. Luckily for us all by the end of the second year we had all been successfully re-educated into realizing the basic ultra-racist evilness of the white skinned people.

The best response to anything white people may say or do that can be linked to racism (no matter how flimsy) is to stamp down hard, expelling them and charging them with thoughtcrimes. After doing that once then further offenders can be considered to have been fairly warned, and summarily executed on the white house lawn.

Josh, at 4:37 am EDT on October 28, 2005

of shoes and pigs and sailing ships

I speak only for myself, a Jew: Intention and motivation are important when I consider whether I am offended by some action of another human being. Post-racialism is a way of being that I wish for. As for the pig at Hillel, I choose to accept post-racialist attitude as a defense.

mgk, at 4:38 am EDT on October 28, 2005

You people love censorship

Huntly, I don’t see why you need to insult me. To be clear, I have no problem with people mocking others. This is life. However, when you start expelling people from public schools because of their “offensive” positions, you create constitutional problems. In short: the constitution gives people a right to be jerks. In your school, perhaps, it is considered politically incorrect to make fun of minorities, but at other schools it is considered just as dangerous to say that the American Indians were victimized by the white man or that the war is bad. Luckily, the constitution protects your ideas (which many people think are bad — or criminal ) as much as the ideas that you hate.

Josh, There is a big difference between being a racist, and committing crimes. It is legal to think, and even write, all the racist thoughts that you want. If you don’t like them, Josh, you should try and convince people not to be racist. If you can’t, then it is your problem. However, you seem to want to suppress various ideas by “squelching” them.

Larry, at 9:49 am EDT on October 28, 2005

Institutional Racism = A racial Joke or a Challenge

Please, people read, The book is Why are all the Black kids sitting together in the cafeteria? We could make jokes about it all we want the bottom line is are we challengin the system of oppression or are we so color blind that we are just joking about. Think of only one thing at this times of trouble, do we joke about it or do we intend to do something about it. IT = Institutional RACISM. Please, read an interesting book Challenging Institutional Racism in Higher Education. I rest my case, if ignorance was a joke, it sure is now!!!!Titorican

Titorican, Prof. of Sociology in Race and Ethnics Studies at Higher Education Institution, at 10:19 am EDT on October 28, 2005

maybe it is cultural

Professor Titorican !!! Why is it wrong to joke about what we see ? Heck, if I see all the sociology professors sitting together, I will joke about that. Also, just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean they are ignorant. Indeed, many intelligent people have come to conclusion that I believe are erroneous. Instead of calling them ignorant, I think it might be a better idea to address their arguments, point by point (which you fail to do).

I don’t think that there is too much “institutional racism.” Instead, there may be clashes of cultures. In my culture it is considered dishonorable to blame others for one’s problems or watch TV and talk about basketball. In other cultures, watching sports, blaming people, or talking about basketball is acceptable. Is it wrong to notice that our cultures differ in so many profound ways ?

PS: I like rap music.

Larry, at 10:27 am EDT on October 28, 2005

should we criticize hip-hop culture?

The party was in bad taste, and the dominant assumption here is that the organizers and participants are both ignorant and insensitive.

Probably.

But here’s a thought: what if some of the participants, and maybe some of the organizers, saw this particular affair as cultural critique? It was at Chicago, after all, home of the Strausses and Posner’s of the intellectual world. Perhaps this party was at least partly an effort to mock certain cultural practices that are, frankly, worthy of criticism, yet dominate popular entertainment.

I mean, why not have a party to mock the vulgar, mysoginist, violent, absurdly macho and crassly materialist values implicit in the hip-hop marketing of real suffering and injustice in “the ghetto"? Why is that sort of mockery objectionably “insensitive"? It certainly isn’t racist (as if most people of color would seriously defend “Fiddy Cent” as a champion of Black America?).

One obvious answer is: this is a lousy strategy of cultural critique, and that seems about right. But if so, then the problem isn’t primarily ignorance or insensitivity (even if these are in play to some degree). No, the real problem is a bad choice of venue and methodology with which to soundly mock key elements of hip-hop culture (and thus the thugs who make an absurdly lucrative living off of it).

Random Heretic, at 3:29 pm EDT on October 28, 2005

Constitution 101

Larry, the Constitution gives you the right to think, say, and write whatever ideas you wish, SO LONG AS it doesn’t interfere with other people’s rights and freedoms—such as their right to live peacefully, enjoy their pesonal liberties, and pursue happiness as they see fit—just as every constitutional right and freedom also comes with a concomitant responsibility to others. The First Amendment DOES NOT guarantee anyone an absolute right to say or do anything they wish. You cannot threaten, slander, raise false alarms, lie under oath, or do anything else that the law regards as dangerous to others (remember laws enforce the principles of the Constitution, and are more specific than Amendments). Certainly, you can write and publish hate speech, ignorance, and off-color humor among those who wish to share in it—but not if it promotes violence, illegal activity, or disrespect of other people’s rights. Then you’ve crossed the line into aiding and abetting criminal activity.

Now, with the case at hand, there’s nothing “illegal” about a ghetto party—it’s just stupid, disrespectful, and worthy of condemnation by anyone grown-up enough to recognize it for what it is. It’s also an activity than can be legally banned by a university or property owner who finds it inappropriate. There’s no inherent right to use someone else’s space for your “free speech.” The pig’s head is another story. This wasn’t done on the offender’s private property, but someone else’s front lawn. What’s more—being violent, bloody, and anti-Semitic in nature—it can be interpreted as a threat by those living there (Jews and vegans alike). And on top of that, it violates their right to live and work peacefully without the presence of hostile environment. There is no “free speech” issue here—it’s outright assault on a group of people who haven’t in any way instigated the attack. The First Amendment doesn’t protect that kind of speech or action. Neither does basic morality or common sense.

huntly, at 3:56 pm EDT on October 28, 2005

Rights ?

Huntly, I realize that you have probably practiced in this area of law for at least two more years than I have, but with all respect, the constitution doesn’t say any of that. The text of the first amendment is relatively simple. In fact, it only prohibits Congress from “abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” The fourteenth amendment, arguably applies this to the states. Any such exceptions for “interfering” with other peoples’ rights just are not in there. And, guess what ? Individuals can’t violate the constitution, anyway!

There may be, however, certain government interests that require ideas to be expressed in certain ways. So, for example, if I want to put up a sign saying “Jews go back to Africa” the government generally cannot restrict my right in a way that differs from someone with a different message. In short, contrary to the wishes of many, you don’t have a right not be hurt or offended. (In fact, I am happy when people are offended, because I know they can’t handle an idea intellectually, and I feel smarter than them.)

What this means, is that “hate speech” (as non-lawyers like to call it) is generally protected. In fact, you can even advocate for very bad things – so long as you don’t tell people to do it now. In fact, I am considering writing an article that declares that people with certain letters in their names are from a dirty race and should go back to where they are from. I think they should not receive the protection of the criminal law, either. (I have not decided on the exact letters yet, however. But I know I hate them and I know the constitution protects might right to get other people to hate these people.)

In some circumstances, the government’s interest in limiting some speech may be justified by the fact that it presents an immediate or “clear and present” danger. But I don’t think you are talking about this. Whatever the case, as you know, from practicing in this area for two more years than I have, the contours of the First Amendment are somewhat complex, but nowhere does it include the text that you say it does.

Slander actually does receive some first amendment protection, especially when one is slandering a public figure, as, to recover civilly the public figure would need to not only show that it was slanderous, but that the slander was done with malice, not just negligence. (E.g. New York Times Co. v. Sullivan , 376 U.S. 254 (1964)). This “malice” requirement was, to some, considered an example of “judge made law” (since the word doesn’t appear in the constitution, and many thought that it wasn’t “common sense.))

So, as to an exception to the First Amendment for “disrespecting others rights” you would need to be specific about what rights are involved. Are these rights created by statute? Is that statute, itself unconstitutional? (Indeed, it probably would be.) You really need to be more specific about this. But since, as you say, you have been practicing law for two more years than I, you can provide specifics about these “rights” you refer to.

Whether a public university can “ban” a ghetto party is a complex issue. While they may have some interest in regulating booze, it is doubtful that they have any in regulating dress styles that salute the era of pimps and hos. (Besides, cheerleaders show even more skin, and they are considered wholesome). Indeed, I think that these parties serve a useful purpose: getting black people to consider whether they want to adopt a pimp as a role-model (or declare him to be disgusting) and getting white people to figure out why pimps flourished for so many years.

I don’t really know what you mean by “instigated” an attack (referring to the pig’s head.) I also don’t know what you mean by “common sense” because you seem to have a view of many constitutional doctrines that is at odds with the text of the constitution. If someone deposit’s a pig’s head somewhere, it seems that the exiting criminal laws can care of this.

Larry, at 1:04 pm EDT on October 29, 2005

Where do we go from here?

To both Larry & Huntly, I get the impression that, at some point, your debacle became primarily based on semantics. To get back to the issue at hand, colleges and universities are making such a strong recruitment pitch to students of ethnic minority populations, yet they are incapable of providing a welcoming atmosphere for these students when they arrive.

I must say, having been primarily educated in the northeast, that the “white liberal hustle” is always a factor. Many white northerners, in my experience, want to believe that they are liberal — post-race if you will — and can interact with folks without a racial context. This can never be the case. As long as there’s a box to check when completing an application form or the census, race and ethnicity will be an issue. Until we become one homogenous group, devoid of any ethnic indicator other than our Americanness, these marginalizing categories will be a factor.

Blaming hip-hop for this is just as futile as blaming native americans when kids play cowboys and indians. African Americans were mocked during the era of blackface & Al Jolsen. Jim Crow was actually an imitation of a slave. All the media hype in the world cannot justify the fact that, when it comes to those of the majority group, they feel licensed to incite humor & merrymaking at the expense of others. The only people making fun of poor people are those who get their 3 squares & more. The educated mock the colloquialisms of those who barely finished high school. Men are still in the business of mocking women, even going so far as to make dressing in drag a cliche comedic technique. The thin are still making money mocking the overweight. And the list goes on.

Problem is, many of these institutions are charging upwards of $20-$30k and these students cannot feel safe. As an African American woman, there’s no way I could feel safe on a campus where people think it’s ok to dress in blackface. It hasn’t even been 50 years since blacks were being turned into ornaments on tree limbs. It hasn’t even been 25 since the desegregation effort took its last breath. I was integrated into a white school & faced the “nigger go home” epithets on a daily basis. Problem is, if you talk to African American students at, say Penn State or Hofstra, you find out that not only are these utterances still commonplace, but they even post paraphernalia around campus to advertise their opinions.

Racism is a reality. Prejudice is a reality. America, for all she’s worth, will NEVER find her way out of this labrynth os ‘isms,’ especially if it means that whites will be denied privileges believed inherent to their race (or that the majority will always dominate). Lastly, while we cannot censor students for disliking whomever, we know that encouraging or not doing anything will lead to more racial tension and bitterness. Matthew Shephard was real. Campus rapes are real. All hate crimes are precipitated by students’ opinions and propaganda not checked by the university, for fear of infringing on their rights. But, isn’t it too late AFTER the blood &/or tears have been shed? I don’t know what a feasible solution is, but we have to start somewhere.

Shamika Ann, Doctoral Student at Temple University, at 4:27 pm EST on October 31, 2005

Stop the mocking !

Shamika Ann,

I am genuinely curious as to why you feel threatened by people that dress in blackface, and not pitty. Since you didn’t explain why mocking is bad, I am a little at a loss to what your problem with it is. Mocking is a form of expression just as, say, singing.

As a white man, I feel threatened by lots of things: 1) people that watch TV; 2) terrorists; and gangs, to name a few. However, every time I claim that I feel “threatened” by people they tell me that because I am “white” I can take care of myself. (In fact, a black administrator once mocked me because of my fear of TV-watchers!) I can tell you that when I was mocked by your people I surely didn’t feel safe. I later found out that black students were eligible for more money that I was only because their parents made less money! I was angry. Then I was mocked by your people again!

I don’t know which “campus rapes” are real. There seem to be a fair amount that just regrets on behalf of a drunk girl. (But then again, I tend to think that people that drink should not be able to avail themselves of the protections of the criminal justice system.) But this is getting off topic.

Larry, at 5:21 pm EST on October 31, 2005

Race

Most of the people who remember lynchings 50 years ago (and there weren’t that many still in the fifties and sixties) aren’t college students now.

No one who was enslaved in America is alive today.

The fear of being literally lynched by, what, white suburban kids one goes to class with is as absurd a fear as, say, being abducted by orange men from Jupiter.

Occasional occurances of real hate crimes don’t mean that there is some massive white conspiracy out to suppress minorities or women — contrary to the earnest beliefs of some individuals in their communities.

That some members of the minority community have infected academia, their non-profit organizations, and society in general with the seed of the paranoia doesn’t make their “observations” valid.

America won’t move beyond the realm of “-isms” while people profit politically from keeping the wounds of the past well salted.

I am less concerned about whites that want to revert to Jim Crow and Plessy v. F. than politically correct extermists that think of any dissenting thought as a hate crime and every white person as the “oppressor.”

Kevin, Undergraduate, at 10:03 pm EST on October 31, 2005

Reality check?

“I am genuinely curious as to why you feel threatened by people that dress in blackface, and not pitty [sic]."Larry, there is something very real & very threatening about dehumanization. The Both African Americans & Jews are well-aware of the thin line that exists between, say, dehumanizing someone & then, using those indoctrinations to do harm. You claim that “Mocking is a form of expression just as, say, singing,” but depending on what TYPE of lyrics you’re using, you are not necessarily offending anyone. So many people want all those of us who had histories of oppression, slaughter & the like to “get over it.” When, in reality, they never did either. It would be so much easier for African Americans to “get over” slavery & race bias if America had taken responsibility for her actions. There will NEVER be reparations, I know, but so many whites carry guilt for being, as Kevin puts it, labeled as “oppressors,” that they want the slate wiped clean. As if there’s no historical context! I get the impression that you, too, Larry, would like everyone who’s mocked because of their marginalized status to “get over it” & keep stepping. Pity these people? Yes, I do, but I damn sure don’t want to live among those who think it’s ok to dehumanize my people, or anyone else. Then, one has to wonder what’s next. Will cross-burnings be ok again? Or, maybe, dressing up in those starchy white sheets will be back in vogue. Oh! Where does one draw the line?

“I can tell you that when I was mocked by your people I surely didn’t feel safe.” Help me out here. Under what circumstances did African Americans mock you? And, considering that you are part of the dominant group, do you not recognize the political implications when some African Americans or comedians of other marginalized groups use their voices to fight back at a system that still oppresses & discriminates against them? Also, considering that African Americans were systematically denied access to higher education until the Reconstruction era (& even later than that). With all the white privilege going on then & now, I cannot cosign your feeling miffed about financial aid.

Lastly, since when did the majority of campus rapes have anything to do with a girl being drunk? Hmm, when I was at UMich, there was a serial rapist on campus & women were being attacked in broad daylight. Just recently some women were attacked in their homes at Rutgers. I guess maybe, these misogynsts were anticipating a keg stand that wasn’t to happen?

Oh, and Kevin, as you say, “Most of the people who remember lynchings 50 years ago (and there weren’t that many still in the fifties and sixties) aren’t college students now...No one who was enslaved in America is alive today.” This is true, but my parents remember, as do their parents & so on. There’s this myth that white people don’t have a history. That’s not true, now is it? Well, that’s unless you’re Irish or Italian. They’re made to remember too. Well, African Americans certainly do & we’re constantly reminded by the majority that we are on the opposite end of that binary equation. We are forced to remember, like it or not. Maybe this implicates some whites, or all, I’m still unsure.

You argue that “The fear of being literally lynched by, what, white suburban kids one goes to class with is as absurd a fear as, say, being abducted by orange men from Jupiter,” but that comment & analogy trivializes the reality many “others” face. Within the past 50 years, countless scores of unarmed African American men were “accidentally” shot, killed, brutally beaten, which is considered modern-day lynching. [Adviso! Not all African American men are gangbangers & social deviants. Many are law-abiding citizens.] While you claim that “Occasional occurances of real hate crimes don’t mean that there is some massive white conspiracy out to suppress minorities or women — contrary to the earnest beliefs of some individuals in their communities,” makes those of us flag-wavers sound a lot like Chicken Little, or, better yet, that boy who kept crying wolf. Maybe we’re paranoid. Considering the track-record of race relations within the Western World (America included), I think those of us whose ancestors survived all the suffering & persecution caused by Western Europe’s imperialist (& white supremacist) beliefs & actions have every right to be. While many don’t want to believe that it’s possible to happen again, there’s no guarantee that any of us are safe. Will slavery repeat itself? No. But can civil rights become obsolete? Who’s to say for sure? Where there’s a loophole...

Shamika Ann, grad student, at 4:50 pm EST on November 2, 2005

Response

Shamika Ann, let me address a number of your points. First, as to the UMichigan rapist, rapists are not created or unmade by campus sensitivity training or political climate. They are mentally ill individuals who will likely not change their ways because of any statement or policy any university could create. I don’t know what this has to do with the university being misogynistic – though the rapists are.

As a Cuban, I know stories of “Liberty City” and all sorts of degrading treatment received by relatives and friends of relatives who came to this nation when Castro overthrew their government and murdered members of their family.

As an Irish American, I know of the humiliation suffered by many of my relatives when they immigrated here decades ago.

The government of this nation does not owe me personally any apology for their treatment. Some individuals owe my relatives and their countrymen some overdue respect and explanation for their conduct, but the nation as a whole does not and those people owe me personally nothing.

By having heard these stories, if I were to live afraid of receiving the same treatment, I would simply be inexcusably paranoid, not rightfully cautious. Furthermore, if I took offense at every comment on Irish drinking or Cuban drug lords, I would be rightly termed thin-skinned and immature.

Offenses are not hereditary. The last American slave-owner and the last slave are both dead. You or I may be in part descended from one or the other or possibly both – but that does not make either of us responsible for their actions, good or bad. We bear responsibility for our own affairs, not those with whom we share the most genes.

Some of those who populate college campuses are indeed jerks who deserve the punishment that comes their way; placing a pigs head at my doorstep (even as an atheist and a non-vegetarian) would not be taken lightly. But what race, nationality, creed etc. I hold as my own does not make the action worse.

Fights break out between those of different colors for many reasons, most of which have nothing to do with race. Given the propensity of some minority individuals to declare every such fight in which the non-black one “wins” a “racial beating” or to term every arrest of a minority “racial profiling” or the imposition of white morality, I think I am well within reality in terming them chicken little political hacks – declaring the sky is falling to anyone who will listen.

Part of the reason people are reminded of the wrongs of the past is because it leads to political capital to rail against those with whom they disagree. Some “civil rights leaders” have made a career out of picking verbal fights and slinging accusations.

I know a good number of African-American men who behave nothing like rap singers and it would be inaccurate to make generalizations on the behavior of any particular race based on such a public few.

Yes, racism and violence are still with us; the skinheads still march and rant and occasionally assault someone, and every so often a Black Panther Pride member punches out a white kid. It happens. But most Americans are more mature and more responsible than this – we should be able to do better than assume the worst based on these few.

Kevin, Undergraduate, at 5:30 pm EST on November 3, 2005

It is a shame your objectivity gets in the way of morality and ethics in your communications. To communicate to another carries an obligation by you to present a message that has an ethically sound goal — that is the issues of right and wrong in human affairs. I am not sure why you felt compelled to identify yourself as white, because, frankly, your views are so generically common, you are, in effect, raceless. It does not affect my view of your views — that being one that looks upon the folly of others as disconnected entertainment. Your first comment of ‘I don’t care’ is all too familiar, and obviously your personal thesis statement. The subject of rhetoric may be your calling (and I am not being sarcastic when I say that). Perhaps, one day an epiphany will allow you to choose a path. Good luck.

Ant, Larry, Larry, Larry at New Jersey, at 10:05 pm EST on February 1, 2006

Racism

I am guessing this neandrathal statement was written by a “non-white".

How about this for stamping out racism.

Everyone should be gassed, shot, tortured, and put to death.

Except you.

Blame everyone but yourself.

You can spout that someone should be executed on the white house lawn, (after fair warning of your own making).

You are a true racist in every sense of the word.

Believe me when I say to you, calling for the execution of anyone puts a lot of people on edge, and it opens up a lot of questions that need answers.

Gene O, at 10:45 am EDT on July 8, 2006

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