D’Agostino trolls for contribution (and externs)

Perhaps when there is adequate legal representation for all that need it, there will be too many lawyers. Perhaps when all criminal defendants are represented by at least two lawyers, there will be too many lawyers. Perhaps when “inadequate effective assistance” of counsel is a claim that can never be credibly made there will be too many lawyers.

There are many ways that legal education could be improved, but making kids work for free isn’t one of them.

For the life of me, I wish I understood why schools want people to work for free before they are highly skilled and can actually benefit the people they are working for. Externships are usually just viewed as an unpaid opportunity to schmooze, and some employers view legal externs as pests that couldn’t get real jobs.

That said, if someone with 5 or more years of experience wants to do pro bono work in an area of law that is not supported by the free market, god bless ‘em. But to have overgrown college students thinking they can save the world as part of a job campaign does little more than invite high laundry bills.

D’Agostino is hardly a reputable person to ask about the state of legal education in the US.

Saying that judges are “effectively becoming lawyers” is a rhetorical device used only to communicate with lay people, so I suspect that D’Agostino is trying to gain credibility with a certain political crowd (especially as he goes off on a tangent about class action lawsuits, which have been around for several hundred years, anyway). Of course, there is always a philosophical debate about whether any judicial decision can be apolitical (and such criteria can be articulated in advance), but I don’t think that D’Agostino wants to intellectualize that much. He wants donors. Likewise, he also seems to forget that after the Vaccine Act there is fairly little conventional vaccine litigation in the US, anyway. So, D’Agostino’s rants are aimed at some donors, who would normally say “there are too many lawyers” and “we don’t need law schools” but he tries to show why he is “different.”

D’Agostino says one other silly thing about “reputable” law schools. Graduates of an unaccredited law school generally cannot take the bar in most states. (California being an exception.) One would have to be both crazy AND braindead to go to one of them. Real reputation comes over time, when the law school can attract high-profile professors and its students will have their choice of places to work. John Marshall just isn’t in that ballpark yet.

Larry, at 7:00 am EST on November 3, 2005

I agree with Lin Yutang, a Chinese American writer who said:

”When there are too many policemen, there can be no liberty. When there are too many soldiers, there can be no peace.When there are too many lawyers, there can be no justice.”

It is unfortunate in a time when there is a shortage of scientists, engineers and teachers that well known institutions focus their energies on producing more ambulancechasers.

Dewey Stanford, at 1:04 pm EST on November 3, 2005

RWH, I like your idea. It is cynical and practical. We should do lunch.

Dewey, Is that what passes for serious analysis where you are from? Personal injury lawyers, unlike others, are probably most responsive to the market’s needs. If people that were injured could easily be compensated without lawyers there would be little or no need for them. The fact is, however, that most tortfeasors (that is, people that injure others) don’t want to part with their money.

Kevin, I don’t know any lawyers that work at Kinkos. However, if they are working at Kinkos, I probably know some places that could use them. Sure, these places might not be as glamorous as upstate New York, but there definitely is a need in some places. As to “training” for lawyers beyond law school this is obviously a complex issue, however, for the most part I blame the individuals for not finding jobs that would provide them with the training they need to be “in demand” a few years down the road.

Larry, at 2:28 pm EST on November 3, 2005

some tough love for lazy losers

Lawstudent05, I got an idea. Quit now.

You obviously don’t care about actually working as a lawyer. If you did, you would quit whining and find a job and/or make yourself look smarter. There are plenty of opportunities for lawyers out there. Sure, some might be a little far away. Some might require you actually develop an interest in a field of law that your friends consider “boring.” (Not everyone can practice celebrity-related law and hang out with R. Kelly.)

But, if you are the kind of person that doesn’t like doing what lawyers do, then you never should have started law school in the first place. Come to think of it, I hope you do end up at Kinkos.

Okay, that was a little harsh. Law school is a stressful time. If you go to a lesser school you will think that there are no jobs for your kind. This just isn’t true. What is true is that your professors look down on you, and the “career development” people are morons and hate you. But, if you are the least bit interested and motivated, you should have no problem finding a job.

Anyway, if you want to make yourself look a bit better, here are some tips that will help people without the ability to cheat/schmooze/whatever your way onto law review:

1)Apply for clerkships. You should apply for about 200. Lesser schools sort of discourage people from doing this, but you should do your best to get complete applications out to judges all over the country. Don’t be afraid of state judges, too.

2)Write law journal articles. Even if you are not on a journal, you can submit to other school’s journals. (If you have no published at least three times by the time you graduate, you definitely should not have gone to law school in the first place. You don’t care.)

3)Get a research assistant position. If you do a good job, at least one professor won’t hate you.

4)Get a joint degree in a real subject – or get the number of credits required to take the patent bar.

5)Do a student activity that is just like an “honor.” While many schools leave moot court and trial team open to the “best” students, there are usually ways to participate in moot court or trial practice events without having made the cut (because you were stupid).

(Don’t work for free, everyone hates volunteers and interns.)

I don’t know if there are too many law schools or not. There probably are too many law students, and many of those students are unmotivated and easily scared. When I was younger, I used to try and scare people with tales of working at Kinkos. But, I have matured (a bit) and now realize that the kids that can’t find jobs are just whiners and never should have gone to law school in the first place.

Larry, at 9:50 am EST on November 13, 2005