News, Views and Careers for All of Higher Education
March 3, 2006
Every spring, Jitendra Malik, chair of electrical engineering and computer science at the University of California at Berkeley, has a sitdown with students who have been accepted to the College of Engineering and are mulling over whether to attend.
Malik has noticed a recent theme in the questions he gets from students, and especially from their parents. “They have concerns about how good an engineering or computer science career will be over the next decade,” Malik said. They want to know if they’re entering careers destined to be outsourced. Why might students admitted to one of the nation’s top engineering programs be worried about being getting a good job? And if students with enough ability to get into Berkeley engineering are afraid of enrolling, is the debate over increasing the number of engineering graduates nationwide missing the point?
To understand the student fears, turn on the television and catch Lou Dobbs on CNN doing his nightly “Exporting America” segment — now available in book form — where he rails against outsourcing. “The shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets threatens not only millions of workers and their families, but also the American way of life,” reads the official book blurb.
Then there’s the vast army of politicians, press releases and articles that tell students that “last year China’s schools graduated more than 600,000 engineers and India’s schools produced 350,000, compared with 70,000 in America,” as Margaret Spellings, the U.S. secretary of education pointed out in an op-ed in Newsweek. Politicians on the right and the left — including Edward Kennedy and Newt Gingrich — have cited those figures, as have the National Academies of Science in a press release for the “Rising Above the Gathering Storm” report, the National Academies report that seems to have put the fear of a flat world into the White House.
But a study by two Duke University faculty members suggests that the oft-cited figures are misleading, and some experts say that, not only is outsourcing not ushering in the demise of America, but that sounding the alarm about U.S. engineering is giving students pause, rather than pushing them toward the discipline.
In a report that hasn’t gotten nearly as much Capitol Hill play as “Storm,” the Duke faculty members sought the reality behind the graduation data. Vivek Wadhwa, executive in residence at Duke’s Pratt School of Engineering, and an author of “Framing the Engineering Outsourcing Debate,” said that the tale of the 600,000 Chinese engineers goes as far back as 2002. Ray Bingham, then-CEO of Cadence Design Systems, used the number in a speech. “People are still citing the same numbers, and they weren’t accurate then,” Wadhwa said. The Duke report, which uses data from the National Center for Educational Statistics, the National Association of Software and Service Companies, and the Chinese Ministry of Education, put the number of American degrees in 2004 in engineering, computer science, and information technology at 222,335; Indian degrees at 215,000; and Chinese degrees at 644,106.
But even those figures don’t tell the story, Wadhwa said. A key factor is often left out of the doomsday prophesying: quality. Over 290,000 of the Chinese degrees, and 103,000 of the Indian degrees are “subbaccalaureate.” In the United States, 84,898 of the engineering degrees awarded were associate degrees. When it comes to per capita engineering graduates, the race isn’t even close. The U.S. awarded 758 degrees per million citizens. China gave 497 degrees per million citizens, and India 199. The report adds that the Chinese figures, which collect numbers from different provinces that have no standardized definition of engineering, likely includes “the equivalent of motor mechanics and industrial technicians.”
The report goes on to classify engineers into two types: “dynamic,” and “transactional.” Transactional engineers are those who generally do “rote and repetitive tasks,” the report reads, and frequently have less than a bachelor’s degree. “Those are the people whose jobs are in danger from outsourcing,” Wadhwa said, not graduates of Berkeley’s College of Engineering. In other words, it’s the people on the other end of the customer support line whose jobs are in jeopardy, not their bosses. Wadhwa said he feels for those people, but that painting a picture of an “exported America,” like Dobbs, is doing more harm than good by making top students worry that no prospective career in science or engineering is a safe one. “We have to do a better job, starting in K-12 [training people in danger of losing jobs to outsourcing for higher quality jobs]. But what bright students are beginning to hear is that American education is inferior, and if you come to engineering, your job will be in trouble,” said Wadhwa, who added that he regularly gets questions of concern from Duke students.
In talking about the Republican science and technology agenda recently, Rep. Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the House, explained that “America needs an education system that produces the most qualified students in the world.” Wadhwa is adamant that America is producing the most qualified students in the world. “China and India are third world countries. They have massive poverty and infrastructure problems. The infrastructure in India is pathetic,” he said. Besides, he added, India and China need more engineers than the United States just to handle their own infrastructure issues. The important battle, Wadhwa said, is for quality, not quantity, and that means not scaring away bright students, foreign and domestic.
Along with Hastert at the recent press conference, several Republican Congressmen invoked “the seven campuses of the [India Institute of Technology],” as Rep David Dreier a California Republican, put it, referring to India’s top institution. A 2003 “60 Minutes” piece on IIT opened: “Put Harvard, MIT and Princeton together, and you begin to get an idea of the status of IIT in India.” And yet, Wadhwa said that he has “checked with professors. They say that students that come here from IIT are very bright, but so are the best students here. They’re equal, not better.”
According to a 2005 McKinsey and Company Global Institute labor study, only about 10 percent of China’s engineers, and 25 percent of India’s, can compete in the global market. That report found that a higher percentage of engineers in low-wage nations like Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Malaysia, than in China and India, are competitive in the global job market. In fact, of the nations surveyed, China tied for last with Russia, behind Brazil and the Philippines, for the percentage of engineers that can compete in the global market. And yet, Hungary and the Philippines have not garnered a mention in the blitz of press conferences about American competitiveness.
Critics of the Congressional focus on the engineering statistics tend to be scientists themselves, almost all of whom believe strongly that the United States does need to do better in math and science. What they are bothered by is the emphasis on poorly understood data that may be discouraging students — and shifting attention away from the big problems getting more elementary and high school kids ready to even consider careers in science.
The goal, Wadhwa said, must be to ready Americans for the higher quality jobs that have limitless demand, and to continue to draw some of the world’s brightest foreign students who help drive innovation. Currently, foreign students have to declare their intent to return home after graduation when they apply for a student visa. That policy, combined with the increased difficulty of getting a visa since 9/11, has caused many Asian students to stay home, or to study at European universities, which are increasingly competing for Asian students. “When we make it harder for them to come into the country, and make it less welcoming for them, and give them incentives to study elsewhere, the loser in that deal is the U.S.,” said Victor C. Johnson, associate executive director of NAFSA: Association of International Educators. “We’re not only disadvantaging our own schools,” which need foreign students to fill engineering programs, “but our economic and scientific leadership.”
Like Wadhwa, Johnson suggested that the recent emphasis on increasing the number of engineers in America should take a back seat to promoting quality. “The fact there may be X, Y or Z number of [science and engineering graduates] floating around, doesn’t necessarily speak to the question of does that represent the actual high level high skill innovative talent American industries are looking for,” he said.
While the State Department has been issuing reassurances that the visa process is back on track, Johnson, pointed to the decision last month to deny a visa to Goverdhan Mehta, a prominent Indian chemist and president of the International Council for Science. “Anybody who says [visa policies] are OK just hasn’t been awake the last couple weeks,” Johnson said.
Though the tactic in many press releases has been to invoke the specter of the 600,000 Chinese engineers, some politicians are now realizing that the emphasis on numbers may not get to the heart of the matter. Rep. Howard McKeon, a California Republican, took a trip to China last year with David Baltimore, the president of the California Institute of Technology. “He told me that one great scientists is worth 1,000 good scientists,” McKeon said.
Or as Wadhwa put it: “China has more dentists than the U.S. too. But so what?”
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You missed the point of the very valid concern people have about Computer and Engineering fields as career choices: the jobs simply aren’t there and this goes double for women and minorities. Look in the want ads before you start telling us there’s a lot of technology jobs out there. In a poor job market, women and minorities in particular are very ill-advised to go into a career where there is a lot of bias against them, such as exists in Computer Science for example. With abundant young white male applicants, only the dregs will be available to women and minorities. You cannot “prove yourself” on the job where massive cultural bias exists against you. If you are successful, it will be “just luck". If you are unsuccessful at something it will “prove” you are deficient, while failures of white male collegues will be excused and even rewarded with additional training perks. You’ll be stuck with all the undesirable, difficult projects with the most problematic customers. You will be last hired and first fired.
Jobs don’t last forever these days for anyone. People can easily find themselves back in the job market in the future, shut out of gaining another position in the field because of the very pervasive age discrimination. And NO ONE is immune to age discrimination in this field. Employers want to hire ONLY young grads. Don’t spend a lot of money getting updated qualifications if you are “too old". You will NOT be viewed as employable as a 22 year old with the same degree. That is the bitter truth of the US job market today.
For those very scarce best and brightest jobs they want eager young faces and they really do want the “best". If you’re not turning out to be one the best in your class and lining up fabulous recommendations, you may be completely wasting your time and money. The average of the best and brightest is not worth much on the job market. For lesser positions, the employers will term the highly qualified grad as “over-qualified". Employers today want people with the least qualifications necessary to do the job. “Excessive experience” and/or extraneous or “theoretical” knowledge actually counts against applicants in today’s job market. This is partly due to the vendor run certification systems. They have been very successful convincing employers that they should only hire applicants with the specific certifications recommended for that position by the software/hardware vendors. These timed certification tests are highly memory intensive so don’t assume, university grads, that if you did very well on conceptual exams and/or programming assignments that you will automatically ace a vendor’s certification test. Your memory may not be as “photographic” quality as is required, nor hold up with age. Some of these certifications only last for 2 years and then the person has to pay and retake the tests!There are even positions where once someone fails to regain all their certifications they are out on the street! Having a short term career so highly influenced by unregulated corporate vendors’ certifications is clearly not desirable and students are very rightly turning up their noses at these fields. They are right!
The current educational system was designed for an era when college degrees “lasted” virtually forever because the fields of knowledge were not advancing/changing significantly during one person’s lifetime.
Now it doesn’t make sense to go deeply into debt to attain a degree that may not lead to a good paying job upon graduation and definitely may not ensure decent wages until retirement. The value of these degrees has fallen catastrophically and the system needs to adjust to that. I don’t know how it can or should adjust given globalization, but Higher Ed definitely needs to face up to that fact.
Almost all jobs in the US today are “at will” meaning people can be let go for any reason and that combined with age discrimination preventing obtaining a new position, makes NO career a good career in this era. The solution to this problem used to be called “unions". Is there another one?
BS CS from a Big 10 University, at 1:30 pm EST on March 3, 2006
National Security Requires Corporate Welfare?
As corporate profits have zoomed in recent years and CEO salaries skyrocketed, more jobs have been exported to cheap foreign labor markets. Nonetheless, corporations have enjoyed bigger tax breaks, thus contributing a dwindling percentage of federal and state tax revenues. One might think these giveaways would be incentives enough to energize corporations toward innovation and development, but these same corporations have, instead, reduced their spending for R&D.
Is there a problem looming as a result of these policies? You bet.
The solution? Easy. Create a panic based on a manufactured crisis, and get the US Government to come to the rescue. This is exactly the tack taken by the new blue blooded, er, blue ribbon Committee on Prospering in the Global Economy of the 21st Century. Their hot-off-the-press scare document is breathlessly entitled Rising Above The Gathering Storm: Energizing and Employing America for a Brighter Economic Future.
The gathering storm, it seems, will come in the form of foreign competition for the control of world markets. Here is quote from the report that succinctly boils down the problem:
Civilization is on the brink of a new industrial order. The big winners in the increasingly fierce global scramble for supremacy will not be those who simply make commodities faster and cheaper than the competition. They will be those who develop talent, techniques and tools so advanced that there is no competition (p. 1-3).
The reason we don’t have that talent? Well, of course—it is the fault of the schools. Here are some of the indicators of the problem from the report summary:
For the cost of one chemist or one engineer in the United States, a company can hire about five chemists in China or 11 engineers in India.
Last year chemical companies shuttered 70 facilities in the United States and have tagged 40 more for closure. Of 120 chemical plants being built around the world with price tags of $1 billion or more, one is in the United States and 50 are in China.
Last year more than 600,000 engineers graduated from institutions of higher education in China. In India, the figure was 350,000. In America, it was about 70,000.
In 2001 U.S. industry spent more on tort litigation than on research and development.
Without a major push to strengthen the foundations of America’s competitiveness, the United States could soon lose its privileged position. The ultimate goal is to create new, high-quality jobs for all citizens by developing new industries that stem from the ideas of exceptional scientists and engineers.
The solution? More exceptional science majors and engineers. Lots of them. The report proposes scholarships to put 25,000 more science and engineering majors into the pipeline each year.
Do we need that many more engineers and scientists, especially when corporations prefer to hire the cheap ones from abroad? Here is what the U. S. Government’s Occupational Outlook Handbook 2004-05 says about the job outlook for engineers:
Overall engineering employment is expected to grow more slowly than the average for all occupations over the 2002-12 period. Engineers tend to be concentrated in slow-growing manufacturing industries, a factor which tends to hold down their employment growth. Also, many employers are increasing their use of engineering services performed in other countries. Despite this, overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good because the number of engineering graduates should be in rough balance with the number of job openings over this period. Expected changes in employment and, thus, job opportunities vary by specialty. Projections range from a decline in employment of mining and geological engineers, petroleum engineers, and nuclear engineers to much faster than average growth among environmental engineers.
And here is what the OOH says about the future prospects for the biological scientists:
Despite projected as fast as the average job growth for biological scientists over the 2002-12 period, doctoral degree holders can expect to face competition for basic research positions. The Federal Government funds much basic research and development, including many areas of medical research that relate to biological science. Recent budget increases at the National Institutes of Health have led to large increases in Federal basic research and development expenditures, with research grants growing both in number and in dollar amount. At the same time, the number of newly trained scientists has continued to increase at least as fast as available research funds, so both new and established scientists have experienced difficulty winning and renewing research grants. Currently, about 1 in 3 grant proposals are approved for long-term research projects. If the number of advanced degrees awarded continues to grow, as seems likely based on enrollment trends, this competitive situation will persist. Additionally, applied research positions in private industry may become more difficult to obtain if increasing numbers of scientists seek jobs in private industry because of the competitive job market for independent research positions in universities and for college and university faculty.
What to do, what to do about this non-problem!? Could it be the patriotic solution to create an oversupply of engineers and scientists so that salaries can be driven down to compete with the foreign labor markets, thus creating our own homegrown Third-World labor force?
Here is a summary of the recommendation by the Committee. Notice that all of them refer to government interventions ($$), rather than corporate responsibilities. Policymakers should give us more, and we will invest less. Count the times you read “policymakers should":
Ten Thousand Teachers, Ten Million Minds
Increase America’s talent pool by vastly improving K-12 mathematics and science education.
Among the recommended implementation steps is the creation of a merit-based scholarship program to attract 10,000 exceptional students to math and science teaching careers each year. Four-year scholarships, worth up to $20,000 annually, should be designed to help some of the nation’s top students obtain bachelor’s degrees in physical or life sciences, engineering, or mathematics — with concurrent certification as K-12 math and science teachers. After graduation, they would be required to work for at least five years in public schools. Participants who teach in disadvantaged inner-city or rural areas would receive a $10,000 annual bonus. Each of the 10,000 teachers would serve about 1,000 students over the course of a teaching career, having an impact on 10 million minds, the report says.
Sowing the Seeds
Sustain and strengthen the nation’s commitment to long-term basic research.
Policy-makers should increase the national investment in basic research by 10 percent each year over the next seven years. Special attention should be paid to the physical sciences, engineering, mathematics, and information sciences, and to basic research funding for the U.S. Department of Defense, the report says.
Policy-makers also should establish within the U.S. Department of Energy an organization called the Advanced Research Project Agency — Energy (ARPA-E) that reports to the undersecretary for science and sponsors “out-of-the-box” energy research to meet the nation’s long-term energy challenges.
Authorities should make 200 new research grants annually — worth $500,000 each, payable over five years — to the nation’s most outstanding early-career researchers.
Best and Brightest
Develop, recruit, and retain top students, scientists, and engineers from both the United States and abroad. The United States should be considered the most attractive setting in the world to study and conduct research, the report says.
Each year, policy-makers should provide 25,000 new, competitive four-year undergraduate scholarships and 5,000 new graduate fellowships to U.S. citizens enrolled in physical science, life science, engineering, and mathematics programs at U.S. colleges and universities.
Policy-makers should provide a one-year automatic visa extension that allows international students to remain in the United States to seek employment if they have received doctorates or the equivalent in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, or other fields of national need from qualified U.S. institutions. If these students then receive job offers from employers that are based in the United States and pass a security screening test, they should automatically get work permits and expedited residence status. If they cannot obtain employment within one year, their visas should expire.
Incentives for Innovation
Ensure that the United States is the premier place in the world for innovation. This can be accomplished by actions such as modernizing the U.S. patent system, realigning tax policies to encourage innovation, and ensuring affordable broadband Internet access, the report says.
Policy-makers should provide tax incentives for innovation that is based in the United States. The Council of Economic Advisers and the Congressional Budget Office should conduct a comprehensive analysis to examine how the United States compares with other nations as a location for innovation and related activities, with the goal of ensuring that the nation is one of the most attractive places in the world for long-term investment in such efforts.
The Research and Experimentation Tax Credit is currently for companies that increase their R&D spending above a predetermined level. To encourage private investment in innovation, this credit, which is scheduled to expire in December, should be made permanent. And Congress and the administration should increase the allowable credit from 20 percent to 40 percent of qualifying R&D investments.
Hiding behind the facade of the National Academy of Science cannot disguise the rationale and intent of this leading group of corporationists (sometimes referred to as corporate socialists—and not to confused with national socialists, whose ideology was bounded by nationalism). Only the New York Times appears to be fooled (it is hard to tell these days when they are pretending).
Jim Horn, at 2:55 pm EST on March 3, 2006
Mr. Horn, your stance is absurd. This country needs to raise its educational achievement and compete on a global scale. Retreating into government intervention or protectionism will only weaken us further on the global stage. The problem lies not with the corporations, who are, as they should be, following the most logical and effective path, nor with the government, which has provided no end of no strings funding in the past. The problem lies with the educational system, the decline of some areas of American culture, and the weakness of the individuals. Attacking the engines of American prosperity will not make you better off.
Incidentally, you probably should have read the article you responded to. It dispells some of the myths you uncritically repeated in your posting, which looks to be cut and pasted from a newspaper which you did not cite.
Kevin, Undergraduate, at 5:10 pm EST on March 3, 2006
BC CS, I think my career is quite nice. I would suggest that you strive to get a graduate degree and become nationally recognized. There is a reason that people want “the best.” I should note that most people can obtain some “recommendations” and that many students don’t bother to take the initiative to become authorities in some field or other.
Kevin, I am curious. Why is it rational an inevitable for corporations to follow some path, but when culture “declines” you place blame ? Isn’t American culture just following some rational path as well? Likewise, isn’t the “weakness” of an individual just a preference for one form of behavior of another. The person above (with the BC CS) obviously didn’t want to work too hard, but that is his choice. Just like it is the choice of some companies to “downsize” their workforce, probably with negative long term consequences. Personally, as a constitutional matter, I prefer government regulation of corporations over government regulation of natural persons. Since corporations while enjoying some constitutional rights, don’t enjoy nearly the panoply of rights that natural persons do. Indeed, they can even be dissolved, upon petition of most state Attorneys General, upon petition to a court by a judge sitting alone. Death sentences for people require juries. Corporations can be bought and sold like slaves, whereas buying and selling the rights to control an individual’s very existence and character is considered bad manners.
Larry, at 10:20 am EST on March 4, 2006
Larry, its fine not to work much if you expect little pay/benefits in return. The problem with the decline in the culture of self-reliance and hard work is that people expect a 21st century first world standard of living while being no more skilled often than the industrial laborers a century earlier and working fewer hours in a safer and generally better envirnment.
Science, technology, the hard work of many and the economic system have produced new luxuries, new goods, new services, new drugs and health proceedures and home entertainment systems faster than many people have increased how hard and smart they are willing to work to get them, yet they expect those products and services. They react with sincere, if illogical, moral outrage when they do not recieve the products of modern society to which they feel entitled by natural right.
Kevin, Undergraduate, at 4:40 am EST on March 5, 2006
Since I graduated two years ago, I have seen thousands of advertisements for engineers with 3 or more years of experience. But only a handful for entry-level positions.
I keep reading articles about mass retirements in industry leaving a shortage of technical workers.
If our schools don’t give us any salable skills, and our companies are no longer willing to spend a year or two in training — maybe we deserve to see our jobs go overseas.==============================================================================================
kjireton, at 9:05 am EST on March 9, 2006
One way to deal with the lack of career opportunity in the U.S. is through emigration. Two years ago, I read that the Russians are rebuilding their satellite constellation, so they might actually need engineers. After a number of years spent trying to find a job in electromagnetics, I changed my field of study to circuit design, and I believe that the only way to gain employment is by obtaining a work visa. All universities in the U.S. that have engineering schools should establish an “Office of Foreign Recruiting” (OFR) no later than this fall (’06). This will allow foreign companies to hire engineering graduates from the United States and will facilitate the process of U.S. citizens trying to contact foreign employers. Employers based in this country will realize that they had better start treating job seekers with some respect, because their new competition comes from places where civility and decency are a way of life. Just because there is no opportunity in this country does not mean that there might not be some in Russia or western Europe. If American companies who are fixated on age discrimination and their other irrational recruiting criteria note that engineers and scientists are bailing out of this country en masse, maybe they will realize their stupidity.
Neutron, WE need to go overseas! (Emigrate), at 9:35 pm EDT on May 13, 2006
I like what “neutron” wrote. I’ve been thinking a lot about working aboard or just over the border. I know that the pay would be decreased but I only have one life. I might as well make an adventure out of it. However, this concept is easy for an individual without children to support. In addition, I would not want to become an expatriate without some equity to make sure that I survived outside of the United States. As I get closer to retirement, I think living and working in another country would be great. I know that the public transportation and cost of living meets the needs of the elderly better in other countries. We can’t take our money with us upon death but we can smile on our deathbeds about how we lived our lfe.
Truck Chassis Engineer, at 9:15 am EDT on August 21, 2006
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The skepticism voiced in the article about Chinese engineering capabilities is partially justified—for the moment. But momentum is what the Chinese have in abundance. Their engineering capabilities are advancing rapidly but there is more than that at work. Advanced nations are pouring capital and intellectual capital into China to take advantage of its low cost labor. Learning by doing accompanies foreign investment and the Chinese are learning rapidly.
And don’t entirely discount those Chinese engineers. I read English language translations of Chinese power industry engineers. The research quality shown in their technical papers is impressive.
We made the mistake post-Korean war of repeatedly downplaying Japanese competitive powers. Let’s not repeat the mistake with the Chinese. Now is the time to vastly strengthen the K-12 math, science, physics, engineering, and economics content. Without a change in K-12 content prioritization, we risk relying even more than now on China and India for our engineering. We will suffer economically if that occurs.
Marvinlee, at 12:45 pm EST on March 3, 2006