Catching up with Derek Bok?

Peter McPherson has a strong reputation for managing the chaos that is academia. He and others have obviously read the new book by Derek Bok, “Our Underachieving Colleges” —

http://www.goactablog.org/blog/archives/2006/02/derek_boks_new.html

and realized something real and significant has to be done ASAP. Good luck.

A.D., at 6:15 am EDT on April 3, 2006

Continuing to use adjuncts will take care of outcomes

I am sure that the higher education industry’s decission to continue to use adjunct professors at increasing levels will take care of the poor education that students are receiving. All we need is more standardized tests and everything will magically improve, then our industry can take the next logical step and fire all remaining faculty and we can move to online classes taught from professors based in Hong Kong and India.

Dick Shoenthal, HR Uberlord at Landgrant University, at 10:10 am EDT on April 3, 2006

School accountability

The reporting infrastructure already exists within the U.S. Department of Education to help hold schools accountable. All postsecondary schools are legally required to use the Integrated Postsecondary Educational Data System (IPEDS) to report many data elements such as completion rates, number of faculty and support staff, etc. This system could be easily tweaked to include reporting on national test results if that is what the nation decides is needed.

The one data element that IPEDS does not collect is the Cost of Attendance (COA). This figure includes tuition, fees, and books, AND all other living expenses that most students incur. It is the most comprehensive measure of the tru cost at most schools, yet it is not mandated as a reporting element to IPEDS, or anywhere else.

COA probably never will be required reporting because it would cause true sticker shock in the American public. Schools like Yale and Penn would come in about $50 to $60,000, and even small specialty schools can top $40,000 COA. If the feds really want to do something “student friendly, they’d force school to disclose COA on their websites and in their recruitment materials.

feudi pandola, at 1:30 pm EDT on April 3, 2006

Interesting. So now we may get serious about assessment of entering strengths (ACT, SAT, can bench press 440, 4.85 50 yard spring, excellent evaluations as MacBurger’s Asst. Mgr. position) to actual evaluation of what the college/university was able to do with those incoming resources at what cost?

Student “A” — stellar student at Podunk H.S., ACT of 25 (combined), works full time, makes it through State University with a 3.5 GPA, and has a combined GRE score of 1450. Cost $54,000 (including room & board that “A” would have had to pay anyway) over 9 semesters. “A” is now a regional mgr. for McBurger’s pulling down $68,000.

Student “B” — average student at Status Posh H.S., ACT of 27 (combined), no job, no athletic talents, on yearbook staff (no leadership responsibilities), GPA of 4.50. “B” makes it through Polished Ivy University in 12 semesters, no outside job, Asst. Ed. of school literary magazine for two semesters (staff writer for 3 semesters), GPA of 4.00, GRE combined score of 1725, and it only cost $180,000 (HEY, “B” was in a fraternity), and landed a job doing food reviews for La Gourmand (grease by the gallon) owned by “B"’s family.

Student “C” was home-schooled, no school activities except summer softball in the part, ACT combined score of 30, no outside employment but helps a great deal around the house. Leads church youth group (ooooo can we even consider that?) “C” zooms through undergrad in 3 years, 4.5 GPA (yes, on a 4.0 scale), GRE of 1750, high enough GMAT to be accepted into three top-tier medical schools. Cost $11,380 (oh yes, first three semesters at Jr. College and next three at Little State College, and “C” lived at home).

Now which student got the most for his or her (or Uncle Sam’s) money?

Which institution increased the level of these students’ critical thinking?

Which of these students could have possibly prepared for professional or graduate school on his or her own?

Who SHOULD have been admitted to Polished Ivy University instead of Student “B” ?

If “B” attended State U. would he/she have done as well as the outcome from Polished Silver Spoon in the Mouth Ivy U. ?

If “C” attended Polished Ivy University might it take him/her more or less time to complete the undergraduate degree (with all those distractions & an idiot roommate) and would “C"’s work have been objectively evaluated by his/her radial to the left of liberal professors?

Dr. F. Gump, at 2:35 pm EDT on April 3, 2006

re: a question

I’d like to ask a question of A. George. It appears from his or her comment that students are an inert mass, without agency and without responsibility for their education. How, consequently, does one take into account a recalcitrant student? If students do poorly in a class, or on the “assessment” of that class, how much is that the fault of the professor, and how much the student? And why should the professor, or the institution, be held liable for students who refuse to come to class, do not do the reading, and do not do the assignments?

Peter C. Herman, Prof. at SDSU, at 6:05 pm EDT on April 3, 2006

Student learning is what matters

I’m disappointed that NASULGC is seems to be interested in describing “the skills and knowledge that students bring to college” but evidently not the ones they leave with. While it’s considering publishing “data on graduation rates, admissions, applications, student demographics and faculty demographics,” the obvious ommission of evidence of student learning suggests that they haven’t heard the clear message that’s been coming from the states and the feds for about 20 years: that they want to know what our graduates know and can do.

Peg Miller, Director, National Forum on College-Level Learning, at 10:00 am EDT on April 4, 2006

Amended comment

I stand partially corrected on the IPEDS reporting of the Cost of Attendance. It is collected for four year schools, but at my three year nursing program, the IPEDS Part D collects only the average tuition and fees. It does not ask anything at all about other costs and living expenses which can double the cost of attendance.

There is, however, no legal requirement that schools disclose their cost of attendance on their websites or in their recruitment literature. A google search of many, many schools showed that most do not report this figure anywhere on their websites. Publishing the COA should be required as schools strive towards transparency with the public.

feudi pandola, at 2:25 pm EDT on April 13, 2006