Search News


Browse Archives

News

The Disappearing Chinese Engineers

June 13, 2006

Share This Story

FREE Daily News Alerts

Advertisement

Pop quiz: What is the significance of 600,000, 350,000, and 70,000?

As anyone who has attended one of the many recent Congressional hearings on American science education or economic competitiveness knows, those are the numbers of engineers who graduated last year from institutions of higher education in China, India and the United States, respectively.

The numbers were included in a hugely influential report, titled “Rising Above the Gathering Storm,” on the future of the American economy, which was released in October by the National Academies.

The hearings -- along with press releases from politicians and news articles, including a recent feature in Newsweek, that use the numbers -- have combined to pound out a steady drum beat of doom and gloom for the future of American science and engineering.

But the numbers, though oft repeated, are no longer embraced by the National Academies.

In February, after the report had already helped push President Bush to announce a major plan for science education during his State of the Union Address, according to senior government officials, the National Academies changed the numbers in the report.

Where 600,000 engineers once represented the number produced in China, now stand “about 350,000 engineers, computer scientists and information technologists with 4-year degrees,” the revised report reads. Those 350,000 are compared to a new number for the U.S.: 140,000.

The new numbers don’t seem to have gained quite as much traction. That’s perhaps because “there’s political utility in [the original] numbers,” according to Eric Iversen, manager of outreach for the American Society for Engineering Education. “The Bush administration has signed on to the American Competitiveness Initiative,” he said, referring to the plan announced in the State of the Union.

The number change came in response to a report issued by researchers at Duke University. The report found that, not only were the numbers simply wrong, they were comparing full-fledged engineers in the United States to Chinese workers who are the equivalent of motor mechanics.

Vivek Wadhwa, executive in residence at Duke and one of the report’s authors, said that “Rising Above the Gathering Storm” "had alot of good thought that went into it," but that "the engineering numbers were not based on fact or research."

In an e-mail, Deborah Stine, study director for the “Storm” report, said that “we are pleased Duke took on the task of better understanding the similarities and differences in the United States and China higher education systems.  It is still challenging for all of us to understand, however, the Chinese and India higher education system, and Duke has told us that they plan to continue their work to enhance our understanding in this area.”

She added that “the original number was one line in a report of over 500+ pages.”

Iversen said, however, that the one line has been amplified by the attention it has received. “The 600,000 has become the touchstone for the hysteria argument,” he said. He added that both Democrats and Republicans have frequently invoked it as part of their jockeying for who can put America on the course to a brighter future.

The 600,000 number was taken for the original report from Fortune magazine.

Both Iversen and Stine said that the change in magnitude of the numbers should not have any tangible effect on the courses of action taken because of the report.

“The updating of this number does not change the overall findings or recommendations of the report,” Stine wrote.

Iversen said the numbers “will take time” to percolate into the political discourse, but that “I don’t know how much that matters. Everything that’s come out of ACI has been a good thing to do.”

Joe Pouliot, a spokesman for the House Science Committee, said in an e-mail that the committee is aware of the number changes, but that “it doesn't change the conclusions or recommendations of the report.”

The one potential negative, according to Iversen and Wadhwa, is if the doomsday prophesying goes overboard, which it may already have.

As reported in an earlier article on Inside Higher Ed, some academics have said that even topflight engineering students, who should have no cause for concern, are questioning whether they should enter a field that they perceive as destined to be dominated by another country.

“That’s clearly a negative impact,” Iversen said.

Wadhwa said that China has a national plan to churn out engineers, quality ones or otherwise, and that basing policy on the raw numbers is a bit of shooting in the dark. “No one has really studied where the shortages are,” he said.

Perhaps luckily for the National Academies, Wadhwa is already at work on figuring it out.

See all postings »
Advertisement
Advertisement

Matching Jobs

Comments on The Disappearing Chinese Engineers

  • NPR's report on this matter
  • Posted by H.J.S. on June 13, 2006 at 7:10am EDT
  • http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5478159

    Yet one more classic "sky is falling" piece of political theatre. Along that vein, a warning for higher ed from E.J. Dionne of WashPost --

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/08/AR2006060801669.html

    The message: the public doesn't trust how its money is being spent -- by EITHER major party.

    And when there is no trust -- "NO" is the easy selection. And with every debacle involving public funds (e.g., excessive administrative spending, faculty buffoonery, embezzlement, program failure) -- that "NO" button comes out.

    BTW: as an engineering tech (as defined in the NPR report) -- there's a big difference between numbers of engineers and quality of engineers. Like the Apple II v. Mac I. Like Detroit v. Seoul.

    "Sky is falling" forecasts are usually myopic in their analysis, not systematic. As in, shoveling-in more money is actually quite easy (see previous) -- creating great designs is really hard.

    If money were absolutely critical to great designs, Europe's Airbus would have knocked-off Boeing by now. Don't hold your breath, waiting for that to happen -- remember the Concorde?

  • Airbus vs. Boeing
  • Posted by Passerby on June 13, 2006 at 2:10pm EDT
  • "If money were absolutely critical to great designs, Europe’s Airbus would have knocked-off Boeing by now. Don’t hold your breath, waiting for that to happen"

    Boeing is a little more worried than you:

    "The root of the conflict between Washington and Brussels over aircraft subsidies is a major shift in the balance of competitive power in the industry. Once the dominant supplier of large commercial aircraft to the world, Boeing had been losing ground to Airbus for the past three decades, but the tipping point came in 2003 when Airbus for the first time sold more planes than Boeing, a trend that continued in 2004. Boeing's loss of competitive advantage and market share spurred lobbying efforts by the company to have Washington resort to the W.T.O. on its behalf." -- http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=310&language_id=1

  • Boeing engineers v. Euro-Airbus
  • Posted by H.J.S. on June 13, 2006 at 6:00pm EDT
  • Of course, it didn't help Boeing to have four CEOs in four years, a Pentagon contracting scandal, and a sex scandal. Especially if you are facing off against a European government-backed entity that should actually be bankrupt.

    But life has gone on. Even with all its problems, Boeing is more agile and productive than Airbus.

    Or governments that count every math student as an engineer. Not just a game of quantity -- but of productive benefits. That is point of stories.

  • Great Designs Without Money
  • Posted by Passerby on June 13, 2006 at 8:10pm EDT
  • "Especially if you are facing off against a European government-backed entity that should actually be bankrupt."

    Well, that's the point isn't it? You wrote that "if money were absolutely critical to great designs, Europe’s Airbus would have knocked-off Boeing by now". But then, that's exactly what happened: the EU poured millions after millions into Airbus to beat Boeing, which included funding the design of the new A380. The Edison era is behind us; great designs, nowadays, have usually enjoyed some serious financial backing.

  • What?
  • Posted by H.J.S. on June 13, 2006 at 11:00pm EDT
  • " .. the EU poured millions after millions into Airbus to beat Boeing .."

    Right, millions and millions of French and British public tax dollars -- after the billions lost on the Concorde.

    With a Concorde-level disaster, most organizations would have gone bankrupt.

    But with the power to tax, the hole just keeps getting deeper. Like medical costs in public colleges -- even the UAW's president says at current growth rates, medical coverage is "unsustainable."

    Want to root for Airbus and the EU? Be my guest. I just checked Airbus' financial performance vs. Boeing on Airbus' own Web site, and the market's money is on Boeing.

    http://www.eads.net/web/lang/en/1024/content/OF00000000400004/3/69/40874693.html

  • Posted by Passerby on June 14, 2006 at 11:25am EDT
  • *sigh* No, I am not rooting for Airbus. I was just disagreeing with your "money is not necessary to great designs" stance. The Concorde has been the fastest plane in his category, by far; the A380 is now the plane catering to the most passengers. Those are great designs, even if the Concorde proved not to be economically viable. If you prefer an American example, Howard Hughes spent more millions to design new planes that TWA and Hughes Aircraft Company could afford; he had to invest his own money and even mortgage his properties. My only point is: money does very much matter. Innovation needs money, and yes, money has allowed Airbus to outsell Boeing. That it was taxpayers' money, which could have been better used for other purposes, is something I tend to agree with, even though it was still a better investment than a war in Iraq.

  • You just can't keep wasting money
  • Posted by H.J.S. on June 14, 2006 at 1:10pm EDT
  • Is some money needed for design work? Of course, I never suggested $0.00 for design work. It is patently ridiculous to even suggest such a thing.

    But does everything have to ba $20 billion tax loss? NO.

    Got it?

  • Posted by Passerby on June 15, 2006 at 5:00am EDT
  • "If money were absolutely critical to great designs, Europe’s Airbus would have knocked-off Boeing by now. Don’t hold your breath, waiting for that to happen"

    It did happen. Got it? Or do I really need to copy/paste my whole first message, link included?

    Airbus has proven a money hole, alright. But to pretend that those billions did nothing to allow Airbus to compete with Boeing is patently false.

  • Promoting Engineering
  • Posted by Don, PE on June 26, 2006 at 11:40am EDT
  • In CT, these incorrect figures have been used as a way to essentially bribe high school students to study engineering in college, by offering tuition reimbursement with public monies. We shouldn't have to do that. We should let the free market determine what kids want to study. Perhaps if they didn't see their parents come home with a pink slip (again) after working 60 hour weeks, they would be more inclined to study engineering. As a profession, engineering is dead. If you want kids to study it, reward those who already went through the programs with stable jobs, better salaries, and enforcement of the state licensing requirements.

  • Drinking Kool-Aid?
  • Posted by H.J.S. on August 25, 2006 at 10:02am EDT
  • " .. the EU poured millions after millions into Airbus to beat Boeing .."

    Right, millions and millions of French and British public tax dollars -- after the billions lost on the Concorde.

    With a Concorde-level disaster, most organizations would have gone bankrupt.

    But with the power to tax, the hole just keeps getting deeper. Like medical costs in public colleges -- even the UAW's president says at current growth rates, medical coverage is "unsustainable."

    Want to root for Airbus and the EU? Be my guest. I just checked Airbus' financial performance vs. Boeing on Airbus' own Web site, and the market's money is on Boeing.

    http://www.eads.net/web/lang/en/1024/content/OF00000000400004/3/69/40874693.html