Good point, Tom. This whole problem is part and parcel of the larger problem of higher education being viewed as appropriate for everyone. It is not, and this attitude has contributed to the devaluation of an undergraduate degree to the point that it is worth what a high school diploma was worth about 45 years ago. Completion rates, achieved through an erosion of standards, are already too high, and have brought us to that unhappy point.

Whatever an institution’s degree of classroom rigor, this fixation on completion rates — and their evil twin, retention rates — are not problems in isolation. They are admissions problems. Students who are both prepared and motivated will succeed. Students who fall short in either of those areas will not. It is incumbent on admissions officers to discern the difference in advance, and not leave student affairs types to flail around two or three semesters later wasting resources on lost causes.

Comm Prof, Professor at Appalachian State University, at 8:51 am EDT on June 22, 2006

Degrees and money

The fact remains that graduation rates are in fact important. Future lifetime earnings are hihger for those with a certificate or higher — all the way to professional/doctorate degrees. We are doing a disservice to students if we do not counsel them on the benefits of a degree and encourage those who ‘think’ they do not need a degree to get one.

R. Wilt, Dean at Community College, at 11:05 am EDT on June 22, 2006

Degrees and Money

Re: Wilt’s statement “We are doing a disservice to students if we do not counsel them on the benefits of a degree and encourage those who ‘think’ they do not need a degree to get one.”

Advising students regarding the potential value of a degree is part of the process that should take place prior to admissions. However, we are doing a greater disservice to students by pushing them towards degrees when they have neither the interest nor the wherewithal to complete them.

Every 30 hours of college results in potentially higher earnings over a life-time. Thus, the key measure of academic success is not truly the degree—but the outcome of the academic experience (i.e. employment and earnings).

For-profit colleges are required, for the most part, to demonstrate academic success through documentation of employment of their students upon completion of their training. This same measure should apply at traditional colleges and universities.

The number of students retained and graduated is fairly meaningless unless you can measure the the relationship of these factors to employment and earnings. If you retain 80 percent of your students through to graduation; but only 10 percent of those who graduate find employment at a sustainable wage, how well are you really doing?

Lynn Byrne, Independent Education Consultant/Author/Editor, at 2:55 pm EDT on June 22, 2006

whose goals?

Students at my community college range in age from 16 to 60+, and their goals for taken classes vary as greatly as their ages. Some see us as a stepping stone to a four-year college. Of these, some graduate while others move on to a four-year school without graduating. Have students in this latter group failed, or have we failed them?

Some students own their own businesses and want to master a specific skill, maybe learning how to set up a website, maybe becoming a more proficient writer or learning how to communicate with workers who speak another language. Have these studetnts failed, or have we failed them if they don’t graduate?

Too many of the students at my college are single mothers who enroll in one course per semester so that they can continue to qualify for student health insurance. Have they failed, or has the college failed if they don’t graduate in a timely manner, or has a society that doesn’t offer them health insurance failed?

In our area, we have a large population of retirees, many of whom have advanced degrees, and who take courses for pleasure and intellectual stimulation. Why would we even think about retention and graduation for these students?

The whole point of a community college is that it meets the needs of its community. Most communities have learners with diverse interests and needs. To measure “success” by one standard, graduation, does a disservice to schools that meet the goals of tthose students for whom graduation is not a consideration.

Betsy Smith, at 5:55 am EDT on June 24, 2006