Also happening at MSU

Wisconsin is not alone in this new form of taxation ..

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/documents/MSUNB_July27_2006.pdf

L.L., at 7:00 am EDT on August 21, 2006

Paying for Diversity

It’s not an uncommon trend to see the costs for those who can’t pay shifted over to those who can. The major problem here is that the student from the middle-class family, who doesn’t qualify for aid and doesn’t have the extra means to pay for college—even if it looks like it on paper—is the one who will take the biggest hit here.

Research has shown that minority students, especially Blacks (non-Hispanics) and Hispanics are loan averse. But, in order to distribute costs equitably, even these students should have to pay for education with at least some small percentage of self-help. Educating families and students about the benefits of college and how loans actually work can help reduce the negative perception of loans that many students have.

Just to play a little devil’s advocate, though, the college market is not entirely inelastic. There will come a point where colleges price themselves completely out of their market. If colleges want to increase enrollments, raising tuition drastically isn’t a good way to go.

Lynn Byrne, Educational Consultant at Hill Country ECS, at 9:50 am EDT on August 21, 2006

minority vs. low-income

I can understand aiming financial aid at low-income students...but could someone explain the logic of aiming financial aid at “minority” students? The insidious phrase “low-income AND minority” needs some explaining. Does it refer to people who are both “minority” (a term which itself needs some defining) and low-income? Or people who are minority plus people who are low-income? If a minority student is not low income, why would we want to give them financial aid? If low-income student is not a minority, why would we not want to give them financial aid?

Prof. Challenger, at 11:25 am EDT on August 21, 2006

Right on

‘Officials say that their drive is meant to go beyond rhetoric’ all the safety nets were put in place to help Caucasians – even if you look and read about ‘the dust bowl’, Katrina and any other natural catastrophic African Americans are left out to fend for themselves – the latest figures 65% of African American did not own an automobile according to the Lousiana State.

Any kind of governmental handouts — the lion share goes to Caucasians however whenever a handout is directed to benefit African Americans – you will have racists coming out of the woodworks against it, why – the racists view African Americans as sub human.

The racists do not want African Americans to narrow the income gap, they would prefer African Americans to be under employed, have no work at all, or are at risk of becoming unemployed — the only segment of the society they love is the Caucasians.

“This will increase the quality of education,” said Ronald Lostetter, the university’s vice chancellor for administration and finance. “We need to prepare students for future realities. This is the right thing to do — it’s reflective of the world out there.”

Bravo to the Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System.

David Robertson, Professor at SUNY, at 2:45 pm EDT on August 21, 2006

Yet Another Handout

Last time I checked, we hard working middle class Americans were already subsidizing a college education for those with a lower income. After all, who does one think is paying the freight on the interest free student loans available to the lower class through FAFSA. It’s great to know that I once again have the government determining how my money is spent.

Guy, A Middle Class American, at 6:15 pm EDT on August 21, 2006

Enough Is Enough

Larry, first let’s deal with your response to my correspondence.

First, I did not indicate that FAFSA provided loans, I indicated that loans were available through FAFSA.

Secondly, at no point did I infer that the lower and upper classes were not hard working. That was something that you read into my comments, most likely as a result of your own prejudice or personal sensitivities.

As it relates to the situation at the University of La Crosse itself, the problem that I have with your argument is that you are asking me to accept things merely because they have been done before (“Schools have always taken from one group to pay for another”). From my perspective, that appears to be a pretty weak argument.

At this point, much has been done to help those students in the lower income category realize a college education. From Federal Pell Grants and Federal Supplemental Education Opportunity Grants and State Education Grants which require no payback to low interest Federal Perkins Loans to no interest Federal Stafford Loans, plenty has already been done (at others expense) to help out those less fortunate. Quite frankly, enough is enough as it is time to take a stand against liberal educators and politicians using the education system as a vehicle to redistribute wealth.

The University of La Crosse situation hits close to home as I both live in La Crosse and have a daughter attending UWL. In terms of me or my daughter moving, perhaps that would be an option if the increase in tuition was warranted. However, I find it hard to pull up roots given that this whole situation is being driven by nothing more that a bunch of bleeding heart educators wanting to impose their wishes on everybody else.

Here’s a thought as it relates to the “Growth and Access” plan at the University of Wisconsin. If the Board of Regents thinks that it is such a great idea, let them put a little skin in the game. Since none of them will be impacted as they have no children going to UWL, let them “redistribute” some of their six-figure salary into this incredibly valuable program if they think it so critical. Heaven forbid those so anxious to spend my money should actually have to spend theirs as well.

Oh, one final comment as it relates to your correspondence. In terms of the whiners here, look no further than those liberal educators who continue to cry and complain about how unfair and discriminatory the education system is to minorities and lower income students (my sense is that you are one of them). Now there is a bunch of babies.

Guy, HWMCA, at 2:30 pm EDT on August 22, 2006

Those complaining here about the middle class having to “pay the freight” for others overlook the point that diversity policies on a campus benefits everyone, not just the minorities of various sorts that they attract. A more diverse campus better prepares all the students there for the more diverse work life they’re likely to encounter. It also exposes them to more points of view, one of the fundamental goals of higher education. As for the self-interested matter of paying the freight, think in longer terms—some of the minorities who rise to middle-class status because of such policies will pay taxes that help your children’s children go to college. And if your grandchildren should fall into lower-class circumstances, would you then counsel them against such “handouts” because they go against your principles?

willie mink, at 7:35 am EDT on August 23, 2006

Guy wrote:

“In terms of the argument that diversity on campus is a good thing and raising the economic stature of the lower class has clear longer term benefits, I am in total agreement. My point is that there is already plenty out there (Federal Pell Grants, Federal Supplemental Education Opportunity Grants, State Education Grants, Federal Perkins Loans, Federal Stafford Loans) to help the disadvantaged. Simply stated, enough is enough.”

But if the disdvantaged include those on a non-diverse campus who are deprived from the benefits of a diverse student and faculty, clearly enough hasn’t been enough, no? Again, a lily-white, middle-class campus population does not reflect the future working life of most students, and it does not foster understanding while in school of alternative perspectives. All suffer from it, not just those who don’t make it to campus.

It’s not only about me and what I get out of life and you and what you get out of life. There are interests here larger than that of each person striving for their own slice of pie.

willie mink, at 12:25 pm EDT on August 23, 2006

Wait a minute...

Guy, if tuition and fees are currently at $5,500, how on earth is your daughter “up to her eyeballs” in student debt? I paid almost twice that, along with my rent, books, and social activities, and graduated with about $2,500 in student loans. My only support was $100 a month from my family for groceries and gas. I suggest you stop whining and tell your daughter to do what the rest of us did: get a part time job and learn how to live on a budget.

ML, at 6:00 pm EDT on August 23, 2006

Larry and ML...

While deplorable, it is not surprising that you have resorted to maligning my 19 year old daughter’s character. That is a typical response from the liberal element when backed into a corner intellectually. While I have plenty to say about your character given your actions, I will refrain given my desire to have this reply posted.

ML…If you are going to resort to embellishment when trying to make a point, I would take a minute to make sure that it’s believable.

In doing the math, under your situation, covering four years of college related expenses ($76,740) that are offset with $7,300 in parent/financial aid with a part-time job (assuming that you worked 20 hours a week for four years without a break) would require you to make $18.45 an hour after taxes!!

Now, you may have had the ultimate part-time job or required less cash than the typical college student because you 1) attended some obscure college in the backwoods of Arkansas where the cost of living was zero, 2) had the social life of a hermit or 3) consider completing two years at a Community College graduating. Outside of that, your response is simply not credible

Larry…Since you have never met my daughter, here is a bit of background on the underachieving party animal.

During high school, my daughter’s writings (poem and short story) were twice published by the National Honor Society.

My daughter graduated as a Junior from Holmen High School with Honors and a 3.97 GPA (only six have done that before her).

She received full tuition scholarships from the top three riding (as in equestrian) colleges in the country —- Findlay, Lake Erie and Virginia Intermont.

As a Freshman, my daughter secured a 3.75 GPA while participating in the Honors Program at Virginia Intermont College. She opted to return and attend UWL given that the non-tuition related costs at VIC (room, board, fees, riding program, etc.) were excessive.

My daughter is the youngest of the top 50 dressage riders in the country as ranked by the United States Dressage Federation. Lest you think that she was raised with a silver spoon in her mouth, achieving this level of success has been through her own efforts (she started mucking stalls at 9). Unable to afford a horse today, she has achieved this high level of success by riding horses owned by others.

Should you think Larry that I took the path of embellishment like ML, I would be most willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Now back to the topic at hand.

It is time to recognize that actions speak louder than words. Like the higher courts that eventually correct the actions of those liberal judges anxious to drive their own social agenda from the bench, we here are confident that legal action under the guise of funds misappropriation will quell Mr. Lostetter and his merry Board of Regents. While it is time to move on, I will miss the banter. Thanks for the memories and you all take care.

P.S. Larry, I will return to see if you want to take me up on my offer!

Guy, HWMCA, at 5:35 pm EDT on August 24, 2006