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Gender Equity or Finances?

October 3, 2006

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As James Madison University officials announced plans Friday to eliminate 10 teams, they placed blame for the decision squarely on Title IX, describing the action as a necessary step to fulfill the federal law's requirements of gender equity in the university’s sports program.

Yet to some observers outside James Madison -- including a consultant the university hired to advise it -- the situation can be seen as part of a recent trend of scapegoating the federal law barring sex discrimination for athletic cuts made as much for financial and other reasons as for equity concerns.

“This was, for the most part, a business decision,” said Lamar Daniel, a Title IX compliance consultant and former U.S. Education Department official whom James Madison first hired in 1999. Daniel attributed the university’s decision to cut the teams to a desire to scale back its sports program -- at 28 sports, one of the biggest in Division I -- to a more manageable size and scope in the hope of making the teams it is keeping more competitive without spending more.

“This is about funding; this is about money," he said. "It’s not about Title IX; Title IX is only a consideration in this matter in that you have to consider the impact of Title IX in any athletic decision.”

Andy Perrine, associate vice president of communications and marketing at James Madison, said that budgetary concerns certainly played a role in the  decision to use funds earmarked for the sacrificed sports to boost other athletic programs. But he insisted that Title IX concerns were paramount.

“To eliminate such opportunities for students was absolutely difficult in the extreme. We would not have done it if not for Title IX,” Perrine said. He added: “There’s just about no way we could add more women’s programs and afford it and be in compliance.”

Under the university’s ”Title IX compliance program,” as Wharton Rivers Jr., a member of its Board of Visitors, termed it at a news conference Friday, James Madison will eliminate seven men’s sports -- archery, cross country, gymnastics, indoor track, outdoor track, swimming and wrestling -- and three women’s sports: archery, fencing and gymnastics, effective July 1, 2007.  The university currently has a roughly 50-50 gender split in sports participation, but its enrollment is slanted 61-39 percent in favor of women.

University officials said the money saved by the cuts will go toward providing the full allotment of scholarships for women’s golf, tennis and swimming, in addition to partial scholarship funding for men’s golf and tennis, with the aim of fully funding those sports by 2011. The decision affects 144 athletes and 11 coaches, eight part-time and three full-time. James Madison has pledged to honor scholarship commitments to all involved students -- currently, eight students on the 10 teams receive a total of $13,500 in scholarships.

Perrine said James Madison officials had no choice but to comply with Title IX’s participation standard via its proportionality mechanism, which requires that the rate at which male and female athletes participate in sports roughly mirrors the total student population. The already large size of the university’s athletics program made it impossible for officials there to either expand its offerings of women’s sports or respond to on-campus demand for two club sports that are seeking varsity-level status, which are the other two ways an educational institution can comply with Title IX’s participation requirement. That left James Madison in the position of having to use the proportionality option, Perrine said.

Experts on Title IX said James Madison’s decision to slash sports, and particularly the inclusion of three women’s sports among those eliminated, indicate that more was at play than just concerns about compliance.

“Whenever you simply state that, ‘We did this because of Title IX,’ it’s inaccurate, because you had a solution that would have been possible and still kept you in compliance with Title IX without cuts,” said Donna Lopiano, chief executive officer of the Women’s Sports Foundation. Budget cuts across the board, especially in marquee sports like basketball and football, would have allowed all sports to continue, she said.

“It appears to me, looking at what they’ve done, is that they’re choosing to have a smaller program operating at a higher level of competition than a large program, being a jack-of-all-trades, master of none,” Lopiano said.

“That’s perfectly within their realm to do, but it’s important to say it the right way. Rather than making Title IX a scapegoat, all of it should be said, not just the one piece of it: ‘We’ve decided that we’ve got to do a better job of complying with Title IX; this was a prefect opportunity to reassess our athletic program,’ ” Lopiano said.

Lopiano said that when colleges attribute decisions to cut programs solely to Title IX, they risk inciting resistance to the law and perhaps to women’s sports programs in general, particularly from partisans from the men's teams (almost never football or basketball) that are inevitably eliminated or gutted as a result.

Daniel pointed out that James Madison, a university of 17,000 students, competes with the big Division I powers in every sport but football, where it competes in Division I-AA and won the national championship in 2004. The university was not prompted to make the cuts by a specific event, he said, but simply did it after a multiyear planning process to address increasing costs. The fact that the university was not in compliance with Title IX -- and was not in a position to add other sports in response to demand from female students to add sports -- did play a role, he said, but so did the university’s desire “to live within its means.”

At James Madison, the president of the student body, Brandon Eickel, said that after a conversation with the university’s athletics director, he was confident the administration had no better option. He said he hoped students would vent their frustration with the cuts at the law itself. “It really was out of their hands. It was something that needed to be done,” he said.

“Title IX I feel was needed in 1972 ... but now I feel like it’s hurting more people than it’s helping,” Eickel added. “The law needs to be changed and adjusted at the time.”

That’s the sort of reaction that supporters of Title IX say are inevitable when institutions like James Madison make decisions to kill sports and lay them at the doorstep of the federal law. “People have created this perception of a zero sum game,” Lopiano said. “If women are going to benefit then men will lose. That’s what’s not fair about just saying, ‘We did this because of Title IX.’ They did this because they want the men’s sports to be better, too.”

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Comments on Gender Equity or Finances?

  • Certainly not about Title IX
  • Posted by Kyle Johnson on October 3, 2006 at 7:20am EDT
  • If this issue had only been about Title IX, James Madison could have cut maybe 4 men's teams and none of the women's teams. That wouldn't have been all that great either, but it would have brought them into compliance with a smaller impact. The fact that they are also cuttings women's teams indicates to me, as the article said, that this was mostly about budgetary concerns and the unwillingness of James Madison leaders to take responsibility for their actions. It is very disappointing to see this kind of behavior modeled for our college students.

  • Posted by JV on October 3, 2006 at 8:05am EDT
  • Was it finances? Title IX? chicken? egg? How about, "It was a financial decision driven almost exclusively by the strictures of Title IX."

  • The Unspoken Truth of Title IX
  • Posted by Watson Scott Swail , President at Educational Policy Institute on October 3, 2006 at 8:30am EDT
  • What James Madison U. did yesterday is part of an unspoken truth of Title IX around the nation: that sometimes the high cost of adhering to the principles of the 1972 law are too much for an institution to bear.

    Most of us would agree that Title IX was a much needed law at the time. Mia Hamm, Brandi Chastain, and others would never have been household words to many young girls (and boys).

    But the emancipation of women's sport comes at a cost, one which people have not spoken of because it seems politically uncorrect. But James Madison did what others have done and more will do the future as budgetary pressures continue to plague our four-year institutions. After 33 years, it's time to at least have a conversation about how we "do" Title IX in a much different era of higher education.

  • Posted by K.T. on October 3, 2006 at 10:17am EDT
  • Title IX, one of the least equitible educational policies in U.S.history.

  • Why not cut basketball or football?
  • Posted by Tom on October 3, 2006 at 10:18am EDT
  • As usual, the marquee "sportainment" teams (basketball and football) remain untouched by budget cuts and compliance with Title IX. I agree with Ms. Lopiano, that James Madison University should have done a much better job with the wording of the announcement. It is too easy to blame Title IX for the elimination of sports like wrestling, archery, fencing and squash, when the true culprits are the football and basketball programs that dominate athletic budgets and make it impossible for other sports to remain active. I propose a solution: a comparison of academic performance (and difficulty of courses taken) by each athlete and making budgetary adjustments rewarding the sport with the best academic representation. For example, if we compare a basketball and football player with an archer or a fencer, and the fencer or archer have a better academic record, then their sport should receive some kind of budgetary "reward." If the football or basketball player outperforms the other athlets academically, then the lavish spending on those programs can be justified.

    One thing I don't understand about JMU's decision: if they made the decision to eliminate all those teams to allow for more opportunities for women to participate in athletics, why then, were three of the teams dropped, women's teams?

    College is about learning new things and, in many cases, practicing sports that are not popular or telegenic. It is truly a shame that these wonderful sports are being gutted so that more millions of dollars can be allocated to already well-financed programs.

  • Gender Equity or Finances
  • Posted by Chuck DeHart on October 3, 2006 at 10:19am EDT
  • Too bad we don't have a law requiring gender equity spending for ALL young adults in their postsecondary education. If its fair for sports, why not all of postsecondary spending! Were higher education (and K-12 feeding it) less female dominated, we might not have problems like JMU had to face. Start supporting our young men instead of political correctness in education.

  • A quick correction
  • Posted by Welch Suggs , Author at A Place on the Team: The Triumph and Tragedy of Title IX on October 3, 2006 at 11:15am EDT
  • To the commenter above: Title IX applies throughout schools and colleges, as long as they (or their districts) receive federal funds. It does not ever require equal funding for males and females; rather that programs be operated in a manner that does not discriminate against male and female students.

    It is disappointing that JMU officials chose to scapegoat Title IX in this manner, almost as disappointing as it is that they chose to cut teams with long and proud histories. Costs are rising throughout college sports, but nowhere are the budgetary pressures more serious than in football, even at the I-AA level.

    JMU would have been better served, and certainly more honest, simply to say that given the university's competitive aspirations in Division I-AA, it cannot afford to sustain one of the largest intercollegiate athletics programs in the NCAA. But it clearly had other options than to cut the majority of its minor sports. Among them:

    * Dropping football
    * Eliminating football scholarships and the competitive pressures of national aspirations
    * Cutting budgets of all teams and reconsidering conference affiliations
    * Dropping to Division III, which permits national competition but limits recruiting and forbids scholarships

    We look to university leaders to provide athletics programs that enhance student experiences and, to some extent depending on institutional type, bring together university communities around events. JMU's actions accomplish neither goal, and the rhetoric used by university officials only diminishes their credibility.

  • Posted by AR on October 3, 2006 at 11:15am EDT
  • It is also important that we recognize that Title IX does not only adhere to issues around sports. Title IX also applies to other concerns such as employment, sexual harrassment, and college access. Therefore, if we are going to engage in a conversation of the effects of Title IX, then let us encompass all the issues in our discussion and understand how gender equity can be achieved in all areas for both men and women.

  • Title IX
  • Posted by Eric , volunteer club team coach on October 3, 2006 at 11:40am EDT
  • My reading of Title IX is that it requires relative gender eguity in spending and opportunity in all activities at colleges that receive any federal funds (i.e. just about all of them). There is no indication that all it applies to is sports, even though that seems to be all that it is used to regulate. Title IX (seems to) require equity in academic programs also, such as scholarships in physics, chemistry and engineering, even though it never seems to be interpreted this way. Am I missing something?

  • Response to Swail re; cost of empowering women
  • Posted by Nancy Hogshead-Makar , Associate Professor at Florida Coastal School of Law on October 3, 2006 at 12:05pm EDT
  • Watson Scott Swail,
    Research shows that overall, men's opportunities HAVE INCREASED during Title IX's tenure. But it just can't be that girls only have rights to educational opportunities (which is what a sports experience is) so long as no boy is ever turned away.

    History illustrates the same concept in the civil rights struggles of the 1950s and 1960s, which saw new desegregation laws that required communities to integrate public parks and swimming pools. Rather than integrate, some communities chose to close these facilities. In Palmer v. Thompson, the Supreme Court upheld the decision of the City of Jackson, Mississippi to cease its operation of five swimming pools after a federal district court had declared segregation of the city's recreational facilities to be unconstitutional. The law did not require that Jackson close its public facilities, but it was a permissible choice (albeit of moral consequence).

    The difference today is that no one looked at Jackson's decision and posited that the city's decision was a valid justification for rescinding desegregation laws. Unlike today, where a school's choice to cut a men's sport is posited as a valid justification for giving girls fewer educational opportunities.

    Moreover, Title IX "disadvantages" male athletes to the same extent that a new family member "disadvantages" older siblings, or to the same extent that new labor competition from African-Americans in the 1960s "disadvantaged" white workers for jobs. Older siblings must share the family resources with the newly arrived member, and white workers now compete in a larger workforce along with African-Americans for jobs. Prior to 1972, boys enjoyed nearly 100% of the sports opportunities, and now must share those educational resources with an expanded pool of athletes - their sisters. Sharing limited resources equitably is a basic and fundamental tenet of all civil rights laws. The equality principle allowing entities the choice to either bring up the previously disadvantaged group or to bring down the previously advantaged group, is consistent throughout the country's civil rights contexts.

    All women's athletic advocacy organizations have taken the position that boys programs should not be cut to come into compliance, that there are other choices out there, as Welch Suggs details nicely.

  • Surveys!!!!--Why haven't they surveyed??????
  • Posted by Ted@realprowrestling.com on October 3, 2006 at 2:05pm EDT
  • The Department of Education said that surveys hold equal weight as proportionality; yet, JMU did not even pursue this avenue.

    The institution should survey student interest and then decide if sports need to be cut added or if things can remain as they are.

    This is a shameful course of leadership at JMU.

    Ted,

  • James Madison and Title IX
  • Posted by Cary , Title IX? It took them long enough on October 3, 2006 at 2:05pm EDT
  • I attended graduate school at JMU what seems a very long time ago. It's not surprising that the university has taken this long to be compliant with the provisions of Title IX. The administration has never had a truly responsive attitude toward education or women.

  • Posted by Albert Tibbetts at JMU Class of "84 on October 3, 2006 at 2:05pm EDT
  • I'd like to see or hear some data or background on why JMU let its female enrollment get so high in the first place. Can't we still give females a good/fair chance and keep student enrollment closer to a 50/50 split? Did they not see this coming from a long time ago?

  • Posted by Perplexed on October 3, 2006 at 2:10pm EDT
  • Can one of the legal eagles who post on this site clarify something? Why doesn't proportionality under Title IX apply to admissions? Enrollment is slanted 61-39 percent in favor of women at this public university, but half of the young people in the state are male and are therefore seriously underrepresented according to proportionality among prospective students. Has admission been challenged under Title IX and if not why not?

  • Gender Equity or Finances?
  • Posted by Andy Perrine , Assoc. V.P. at James Madison University on October 3, 2006 at 3:45pm EDT
  • First, I'd like to thank writer Elizabeth Redden for portraying me - after I gave her much help with this article - as disingenuous and a flak. What readers of Inside Higher Ed should read into this article is that the university's position - that our decision was based on Title IX - takes a back seat to the demagoguery of partisans participating in the national discussion. Playing to the argument rather than to the facts of a story is a growing cancer on media's portrayal of reality.

    Redden herself shows willingness to portray the reality of JMU's decision to support her thesis. She writes, "...the situation can be seen as part of a trend of scapegoating the federal law barring sex discrimination for cutbacks made for financial and other reasons ..." Every cent recovered by the decision made by JMU is going back into the athletics program, a fact I shared with Redden. How is that a cutback? If this cut were made for financial reasons, wouldn't the university seek to redistribute the recovery into other areas? The half-million dollars recovered from this move is a very small portion of our over all athletics budget.

    So, in the end, this was not a 'financial' decision, as portrayed by Redden and the partisans she relies upon. It was for Title IX as I stated. This is a black eye for Inside Higher Ed, a publication I can no longer rely upon for objective reporting.

  • money or opportunity?
  • Posted by Lynn P- JMU gymnastics-2001 on October 3, 2006 at 3:45pm EDT
  • JMU has clearly identified that they are more interested in making money than they are in providing opportunity. At what point do they make decisions based on the students?

  • Gender Equity or Finances?
  • Posted by Andy Perrine , Assoc. V.P. at James Madison University on October 3, 2006 at 3:45pm EDT
  • JMU responds to some of the comments here:

    Ted@realprowresting.com - where did you get your facts that JMU had not surveyed? JMU has surveyed our students and currently we are not meeting their interests and abilities.

    Cary - JMU began almost 100 years ago as a state teachers college for women. Our heritage is as a proud part of the Progressive Movement. I am not sure how you've reached your conclusion that the institution has never had a responsive attitude towards women.

    Alan Tibbits - first of all, hello fellow JMU alumnus. How did we get to this ratio of 61:39 women to men? We admit the most qualified students, be they men or women. National trend data shows that men are not graduating H.S. at the same rate as women; are not having the same success in preparing for college and are not applying to colleges at the same rate as women. JMU is not alone in this trend - it's happening everywhere.

  • Waston Scott Swail's Comments
  • Posted by Roger on October 3, 2006 at 3:45pm EDT
  • Watson Scott Swail pretends he knows exactly why James Madison dumped some of its men's AND women's sports teams. In his comments, Swail asserts that Title IX is to blame because of its policies. Swail doesn't specifically state which. So my question to him is which policies under Title IX specifically caused James Madison and other (please list specifics and documents) to prove that Title IX was the cause?

    Many court cases, including the National Wrestling Coaches case in the Supreme Court have looked again and again at the allegations that Title IX and its so-called "financial" restrictions cause universities to dump some of their men's teams. This is the biggest red herring I've ever seen since Title IX DOES NOT have any financial restrictions and in fact discusses blatantly "proportionality" and "equality" of women's teams to men's teams; it doesn't state anywhere that the same amount of money given to men's teams be given to women's teams. Thus, if the university has a football team and chooses to initiate a women's swim team and a women's lacrosse team to meet Title IX needs, it doesn't mean that the same amount for football will be given to these two sports; what it does mean, is that these women's sports should receive "proportional" support based on its size, equipment needs, team roster size, etc.

    Mr.Swail is being disingenuous and lop-sided in his Title IX purview...

  • Posted by Josh Centor on October 3, 2006 at 5:25pm EDT
  • Here’s the reality: If James Madison had cut one full scholarship from every one of its athletics programs, it could not only have supported the 10 programs financially, but probably could have added another women’s program or two. Instead of fully funding a football program that has emerged as a national power in the Football Championship Subdivision, JMU could have removed a couple of scholarships and appropriated them elsewhere. Taking away from football doesn’t seem to have factored into the thinking.

    Situations like this one really make me sick. I am the beneficiary of a program that never earned one dollar of revenue. If Brandeis rid itself of its baseball program, I would be heartbroken. Title IX is about increasing opportunities and isn’t gender specific. It goes against the spirit of the legislation to take away opportunities from either gender.

    This was a budget decision and we should discuss it as such. Making Title IX a scapegoat for cutting 10 programs is inaccurate and unfair, especially when a few dollars away from football or basketball could have made the difference.

  • Save Our Sports!
  • Posted by Elaina Orphanides , student at James Madison University on October 4, 2006 at 6:10am EDT
  • As a member of the JMU women's cross country and track team, I was outraged by Friday's decision. Especially since it was announced to us by an assistant athletic director, on our ride home from a meet in PA. Our coaches were barely even informed of the decision before it was relayed to us.

    I think the whole situation was handled poorly, and there are other options that should have been taken into consideration before axing ten sports. It is the belief of many here that the Board of Visitors was given inaccurate information to base their decision on, in one case, with regard to the number of athletes on teams. For example, the men's soccer and wrestling teams have caps of 30 people (both of which have less than that on their rosters). One team was reported to have about 37. Where did that come from?

    It upsets me that JMU is trying to hide behind Title IX, when there are strong signs that there is another motive, and one that involves money and the advancement of the football program. JMU has never really been a football school, and honestly, probably won't ever be what they are trying to make it. Not that we aren't getting better. However, it wasn't too long ago when we just flat out sucked. We win the championship one time, and all of a sudden it's "Yay JMU football!" While all athletes have access to the APC, it was primarily built for football. The turf field in the stadium was redone this summer (and is pretty much on lock down if football isn't using it).

    So, if Title IX is really such a concern, where are the new/updated facilities for the female teams? Maybe give some sports their scholarships back? How about even a simple locker room for the teams and officials that play up at the ISAT complex? The old Harrisonburg high school was recently purchased by JMU. Why not improve the facilities over there so teams can utilize them? Some may say "Oh, well it's a question of funding". Okay, well maybe that $17,000 we pay in "student fees" could be put to better use than funding steak dinners at D-hall. Maybe athletes could sleep in their own beds instead of wasting money renting hotel rooms before HOME games. (The key word is HOME.) When the question about reducing student fees now that the number of sports is reduced to eighteen was raised, the answer was no.

    This type of information was relayed to student-athletes at a recent meeting, so while you can't always believe what you hear, things like it do occur. Since Friday, efforts have begun to save our sports, and we've already gotten a lot of support from students on campus, parents, alumni, and people from other schools. I'm hopeful that we'll atleast get some sports back, because at the very least, the decision is just wrong.

  • Posted by RJM on October 4, 2006 at 8:20am EDT
  • As far as Andy Perrine's criticisms of Redden's article, he fails to address the problem that Lamar Daniels is the one who said that the major reason these sports got the axe was finances--not Title IX. Lamar Daniels was cited as the Title IX "expert" that the school was basing its decision on. Are you saying that that quote was inaccurate or misrepresented?

    Secondly, you said that an interest survey had been performed. Was this the Model Survey approved by the OCR at the Dept. of Education? When was this survey performed? I checked the JMU web site and the only survey referenced in the latest NCAA compliance certification is from 2000. It was indicated as of that time that females on campus were generally satisfied with current sports opportunities on campus.

  • Basketball & Football?
  • Posted by Craig C , political pundit at http://blogresponder.blogspot.com on October 4, 2006 at 9:16am EDT
  • As usual, some who have a bias against men's sports don't really have the correct perspective. If JMU is anything like virtually all Division I schools, the two sports that provide most (if not all) of the actual revenue for the college ahtletics programs. Those two sports are normally the two that can charge admission at the gate and still get a lot of fans to show up to watch. Would most people pay to see archery?

  • Elaina
  • Posted by Kevin on October 4, 2006 at 9:20am EDT
  • Women's Track programs ARE NOT being cut.... JMU will now be offering 12 women's programs to ONLY 6 men's programs.

    Yes, football and basketball are huge burdens, but they are also the ONLY programs that have ANY chance of producing revenue for the Athletic Dept. As A JMU student, I can see the logic behind this move. It is NOT JMU's job to provide athletic opportunites

  • Taking away scholarships
  • Posted by Craig C , political pundit at http://blogresponder.blogspot.com on October 4, 2006 at 9:20am EDT
  • Another thing is the idea that taking away scholarships will somehow raise money for the school. Since the scholarship is embedded in the financial framework of the university, it doesn't take away any money. It is only a paperwork thing. The only way that would work is if there were extra paying students who enrolled to pay the amounts no longer granted.

  • Posted by Chris at James Madison University on October 4, 2006 at 10:40am EDT
  • OK. I'm sitting in TDU (a coffee shop at JMU) and was just flippng through articles about this until I came upon this article and its comments. Most of these comments are constructive and raise valid points but i took issue with several of them.

    First and foremost; one comment stated that surveying students would be a satisfactory way to gauge interest of students and whether or not they were satisfied with sports. Mr. Perrine made a rebuttal stating that the university had in fact surveyed its students. What I would like to know is where, Mr. Perrine, do you get your facts? Ive been a full time student of this university for three years now and never once have I opened webmail to find a link to a survey about JMU sports and gender equality. Not once! I went ahead and checked with some friends of mine to make sure that maybe it wasn't just random sampling that I'd been excluded from (as a matter of fact I asked over 400 students). To no surprise, not a single one of them had ever recieved a survey. Now doesn't that seem slightly strange? Mr. Perrine says the student body has been surveyed but no student I've spoken with has been surveyed. Seems like a survey would have been more effective in keeping a happy student body than cutting 10 of our sports.

  • Biased Coverage
  • Posted by Jim McCarthy at College Sports Council on October 4, 2006 at 10:45am EDT
  • The following was sent as a formal correspondence on 10/4 from the College Sports Council to reporter Elizabeth Redden and Editor Doug Lederman:
    -----
    Dear Ms. Redden,

    As a media rep for the College Sports Council, I would like to raise some concerns about the tenor and content of your piece yesterday on Title IX enforcement at James Madison. The CSC is the primary advocacy group for reform of Title IX. Our national coalition includes coaches, parents, athletes, and educators. We have been the lead plaintiff in federal litigation over Department of Education enforcement methods and we have been speaking out about the issue for many years now.

    I point all this out to beg the question: why do we continue to be omitted from Inside Higher Ed’s coverage of Title IX? On Monday you spoke with my CSC colleagues Jessica Gavora and Leo Kocher. They provided a factual and candid perspective on the situation at JMU and its broader implications. They also pointed out that we are in correspondence with JMU officials and have called publicly for the school to seek alternatives such as instituting an interest survey for both men and women.

    Why was all this disregarded? Opinions run deep on this issue, to be sure, but it does a disservice to readers, the academic community and student-athletes in particular when news coverage is biased in this way. Let me be specific:

    -- Lamar Daniel is presented to readers as an objective source when in fact he has long been a vocal advocate for compliance through proportionality. There are many people in college athletics who regard him as more single-handedly responsible for cuts in athletic teams and caps on rosters than anyone involved in Title IX. What’s worse, journalistically, is that Daniel has a direct financial stake not just in publicizing his dubious services but in creating legal anxiety at schools over enforcement.

    -- Similarly, Donna Lopiano has built an entire fundraising operation around a specific ideological agenda and also works in concert with trial lawyers to threaten litigation against schools. She is welcome to her view, of course, but again there are scores of credible, expert sources that differ with her on the fundamentals of Title IX enforcement and gender politics. Readers deserve to know that and also to hear those differing perspectives. It is simply disingenuous to present her as an independent, objective observer.

    -- The characterizations of the actions of JMU administrators is also troubling. The use of pejorative phrasing like “scapegoating Title IX” and “placing blame on Title IX” plainly infers some intentional malevolence in the decisions. But by all accounts, the administrators were openly and genuinely pained by the decisions they made. They studied their options, presumably consulted legal counsel and made a choice as a group which they announced publicly. How is that in any way nefarious or deserving of innuendo?

    -- Finally, Brandon Eickel, the student body president you quoted deserved a fair hearing (and from where I sit, applause) for standing up and taking issue with what the federal government has brought down on his classmates. Instead, you dismissed it as a “sort of reaction” and then allowed Donna Lopiano a condescending shot at him. That’s disgraceful and I’d say he’s owed an apology.

    For our part, I would like to ask for an explanation of how these breaches in basic journalism standards could have occurred. Is this what Inside Higher Ed means in its mission statement by “accurate, thorough and reliable” reporting? How about the passage where the publication claims it will “spare no sacred cows” -- does that apply to Title IX? Or, to borrow a phrase, are some sacred cows more equal than others? I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

    Sincerely, Jim McCarthy

  • Posted by Annoyed , Things I have heard on October 4, 2006 at 10:55am EDT
  • I am a memeber of the men's swimming program at JMU. The most frustrating thing for me after reading this article is the fact that we were told we were all being cut SOLELY because of Title IX and after reading "expert" Lamar Daniels comments in this article saying it was a "business decision...it was about money" infuriates me. There are many numbers that were wrong in this decision. And it is my understanging that the last time that the student body was polled was in 2001 and I am not pulling these comments out of places where the sun won't go. Im pretty sure that in the past 2 months that there has not been a student poll. And I can guarantee you that almost nobody on our campus wants to see ANY of these programs disappear. People like us, they do not want any of us to go. All we want is for the administration tell us the truth. And statistics show that more females apply to universities now than 30 years ago which leads to reverse discrimination, but isn't that discrimination by sex? Isn't the original purpose of Title IX to fight discrimination by sex and provide equality for EVERYONE??? We have so many questions NONE of which have been answered. Hopefully these questions will be answered truthfully by the administration. We are going to fight this till the very end. If you would like to support us or have any suggestions please email us at saveJMUswimming@gmail.com or visit our website saveJMUswimming.com or if you got facebook join our group(I know its dorky) at DDP Swim Team.

  • SOS
  • Posted by Amy McAleese , JMU Archer at James Madison University on October 4, 2006 at 1:25pm EDT
  • It's amazing to me that the vice president is willing to present facts and arguments defending the decision on this board but not to any of the students. We have yet to see a comprehensive document explaining why the other steps were not attempted and where exactly the money will go and in what proportions.
    Also, JMU claims to be deeply concerned about the welfare of the cut athletes and devestated by the decision they made, yet they've treated us with nothing but disrespect and condescension. I think it's only natural to form an impression of nefarious motives when so much of this process was conducted in secret and the facts continue to be withheld.

    To everyone who supports the student athletes here and wants JMU to reconsider their decision, PLEASE write to the Board of Visitors and other officials empowered to make a difference. Lists of addresses and emails for these administrators can be found on the savejmuswimming website given above.

  • Disappointed to be a JMU student right now
  • Posted by Lisa , JMU Student at James Madison University on October 5, 2006 at 5:50am EDT
  • There are many things I like about JMU, but there are many things I highly dislike about JMU. One of these disliked aspects is the unrealistic ratio of female to male students at this institution. Okay, I understand that a university must admit the most "qualified" students despite whether that student is male or female. I also understand that females are graduating from high school and going to college at higher rates than males in recent findings. However, when all is said and done and everyone is dumped back into the real world, the ratio goes back to 50/50. Yes, maybe in the workplace, depending on the field of the individual, that ratio won't uphold, but overall in society the population is 50/50. As a female on this campus, I think it is detrimental to the female psyche to have so many females on this campus. Plus, personally, the guys on this campus know this fact and they blatantly use it to their advantage (in other words, the majority of guys on this campus are real jerks and are going to get a slap in the face when they go into the real world). I believe I read recently in the JMU student-run (but seems to be solely a mouth piece of the JMU admin instead in the initial articles on the subject of Title IX) stated that 1 in 4 girls at JMU have an eating disorder which, I might add, is above the average for college females in other universities (http://www.thebreeze.org/2006/09-25/top2.html). I think this is a direct correlation to the ratio at the school because it feels like women compete with each other on this campus more than they compete with men. Personally, as a female, I think it is worse when females compete with each other academically AND socially. There needs to be some sort of separation between the two. I know I may seem crazy with what I've said so far, but let me relate it to this Title IX decision that was recently made (which I would also like to add that, as a student of this university I would like to know why the survey option of the three-pronged attack of this title was not put into use and don't lie and say it was because I NEVER participated in any survey and I regularly participate in on-campus surveys so my voice is heard):

    The school is using Title IX as a mask to hide the real truth. When I first came to this school, I was told by an orientation guide (yes, one of those obnoxiously gleeful "YAY JMU" types) said that the football team was "nothing to write home about." That fall they won the Division I-AA championship. Yay, woot, go JMU. However, this event seems to have bred a new monster in its aftermath. Never did I see a peep about JMU's football team in papers that I received from the school in my application process, but papers that I have seen sent home to my younger peers in hopes of enticing them to apply seem to be doused in football fever. Hey, I like football and the guys on the team seem amicable, but it is fishy that FEMALE teams got eliminated when females were the ones that were apparently getting screwed over. Coudln't they have just eliminated 4 of the guys teams or something? Not that I would be happy with that either, but I would feel that the university would be more justified in screaming "BLAME TITLE IX" if other courses of action were used. Funding has been mentioned sparsely in articles that I have read, but it really seems to be the truth behind it all. Plus, as I have read several times also, it is unfair to include football in the whole Title IX ordeal since there is no female equivalent.

    I think this section of an article I read in the Daily News Record which serves Shenandoah Valley area really shows the admin's true colors:

    No Conference, No Future

    That was the bottom line in JMU’s decision to cut three women’s sports as part of its Title IX shakeup last week.

    Written by Dustin Dopirak

    ". . ."It’s really confusing," [a] junior archer. . .said. "They kept on telling us over and over again it has nothing to do with funding. We’re confused by that. If it had nothing to do with funding, why not keep the women’s sports to help the ratios?"

    Because it did have something to do with funding.

    While the students whose teams were eliminated weren’t told so when members of the athletic administration met with them at the Convocation Center on Friday – according to several of them -- JMU spokesman Andy Perrine said Monday that women’s sports were cut, in part, because of monetary issues.

    "It’s mainly because of funding," Perrine said. "Well, I wouldn’t say mainly, but it’s more so a combination of funding and that the women’s teams that were cut are not part of any conference. They don’t have conference membership."

    Indeed, the Colonial Athletic Association does not sponsor any of the three women’s sports. Neither does it sponsor men’s archery or men’s gymnastics, which also were eliminated by the Board of Visitors. All other JMU sports are members of either the CAA or Atlantic 10.

    Maintaining a sport that is not part of a conference creates logistical problems, including travel, because teams have to go to far-flung places to find competition, which costs money. Plus, because there are no conference championships, programs have to compete on a national level to gain recognition.

    In addition, being in a conference tends to ensure that teams are on a level playing field with others in the same peer group.

    "If everyone’s competing at the same conference level, there’s a consistency of competition that the entire program can expect, no matter what team you’re on," said Perrine, who has been designated to speak for the athletic department. "If you’re in the same conference and at the same level of all of the other teams, having that consistency balances the program.""

    Okay, if you are worried about competition, why did you eliminate some of the male teams that you did eliminate? Some of these teams had OUTSTANDING athletes on them and now the university is going to lose them and their inspiring work ethic to a lousy shroud of Title IX.

    Face it, education has been turned into a business and it is a sad state of affairs due to emphasis on competition and bankable sports. In the process, education has brought society's poorer aspects and projected them onto the college campus where students should enjoy the quiet before the storm of real life. If you really want to do a favor to the female population on college campuses, make the ratios realistic to what it is in the real world. In the end, all the sports would win out because the percentages would be equivalent and even the business of education would still be able to make bank behind their big money maker sports.

    Sadly, this whole ordeal has left a smear on JMU's reputation. We are a female-dominated school where females are probably in a poorer mental health state due to a competitive than they are in other universities and they now are being used as a cop out in a Title IX scheme. Also affected are male athletes that got caught in the cross fire of a school trying to hide behind a lie to protect itself from its want to excel in the business realm behind other sports. As a JMU student, I am disappointed on a whole to represent the university. I wish I could just represent my field and department of study to the rest of the world instead.

  • Title IX
  • Posted by Lisa , JMU Student at JMU on October 5, 2006 at 3:00pm EDT
  • By the way, sorry about the typos, I did write my comments during the early hours of the morning.

  • The realities of tough decisions
  • Posted by Gary , Alum at JMU on October 6, 2006 at 5:40am EDT
  • In my years at JMU, I was heavily involved in the club sports program. I can appreciate tough decisions that need to be made, solely based on financial implications. Sports clubs benefit from some generous funding from SGA, but the funds are far inadequate, forcing tough decisions year after year.

    I also feel for the athletes. My freshman year I lived in Dingledine with 2 swimmers and a diver. I actually went to swim meets (that made me a minority on campus). I am still friends with several former JMU swimmers, and I’m sure they’ll be devastated by this decision.

    This decision sucks. There's no other way to say it. But thinking long term, the administration has a responsibility to every student, to make decisions which will help the University grow, and ensure the value of a JMU degree increases, never decreases. In the long term, this will allow the Athletics department to focus on core sports which help fill the seats, and make the University more visible.

    20 years from now, when JMU is the Virginia school playing in the Sweet Sixteen, it will increase applications, increase the admissions standards, and add value to your degree. 10 years later, when they beat Virginia Tech to earn their first spot in the BCS, that adds value to our degrees. Great sports teams bring in big revenue for Universities, big revenue that helps support great academic programs. Those dollars have the potential to give future students opportunities we never had. Opportunities to learn from more top notch professors, to offer more top notch programs, with more first rate resources.

    These sports teams will be sorely missed. But it won’t change the culture of JMU. Freshman will still be able to walk into random parties and have a beer without paying for a cup. It won’t stop the homecoming block party in Forest Hills. This was a decision that was inevitable. Its unfortunate that it was made, but realistically, it had to happen eventually, because it’s the greatest good for the University, the past, present and future student bodies. My heart aches for the students who got the raw end of the deal, who will sacrafice their passion for the good of the rest of us.

    Hopefully the University leadership will learn from this experience an important lesson: If you’re doing what’s in the interest of the students, tell us. We may not like your decision, but we’ll respect the whole truth.

  • DDP
  • Posted by Mollie DeFrancesco on October 6, 2006 at 8:50am EDT
  • Gary, I disagree with what you said above: "These sports teams will be sorely missed. But it won’t change the culture of JMU." Unfortunately, the culture at JMU will be affected by these changes. JMU offered opportunitites for athletes that other schools did not offer. Now we are selling out to be like Tech and UVA? You also said "20 years from now, when JMU is the Virginia school playing in the Sweet Sixteen, it will increase applications, increase the admissions standards, and add value to your degree. 10 years later, when they beat Virginia Tech to earn their first spot in the BCS, that adds value to our degrees." That comment makes me sick to my stomach. I came to JMU because I liked it and because I thought it was different and had a lot to offer. I also walked on to the track team and was coached by an awesome coach and became a three-time All-American. I was given an opportunity that a lot of other schools don't have to offer. I know I'm not alone, because I have talked to other former athletes from JMU and let me tell you it's hard to find a DI program like JMU. I wouldn't have hesitated to recommend this school to anyone I met until a few years ago. Fast forward to JMU now and what will become of it if we continue to sell ourselves short- we'll be just like everyone else. I'm going to paraphrase a quote from my friend, a former lacrosee player for JMU: JMU used to be a liberal arts school with a lot of really good sports teams- national champions, all-americans. Kind of like a DIII school, with better competition and more opportunities. It makes me sad to think that I wouldn't want my kids to go to JMU, because I am someone with a lot of DDP. I think that is something that the administrators don't understand, is that they are trying to raise more money at the expense of changing the face of our university. Thanks for turning your loyal alums into sell-outs, too.

  • Get the Alumni behind it if you want to save them...
  • Posted by Gary on October 6, 2006 at 11:50am EDT
  • "I know I’m not alone, because I have talked to other former athletes from JMU and let me tell you it’s hard to find a DI program like JMU."

    Exactly! JMU held on as long as they could. Other comparably sized schools were cutting programs YEARS ago, because it isn't economically feasible!

    Women's fencing was cut... when I was on campus a couple years ago, in Zane Showker hall, there was an ad for the women's VARSITY fencing team "No experience required." This is a varsity sport! Are you kidding me? Who can make an economic case for keeping a varsity program around that requires no prior experience?

    The odds are pretty good that Women's Archery and Gymnastics were cut because they already shared resources with the men's teams, and spending that kind of money on 8 or 10 students who have little campus support (Probably 3 in 10 JMU students knows JMU had varsity Archery)isn't a wise use of tuition dollars.

    There are plenty of Alum that are pissed about this decision. They need to look to themselves, and think about whether they truly did what they could to support their team after they left. If it truly changed your JMU experience is it asking alot to make a $100 donation a year to support your former team? That's how you build an endowment. Lots of small donations to support specific sports can keep those sports operating. Don't make the administration make a decision based on dollars, give back, and give them the resources to do more in the future.

  • JMU Administration Responds
  • Posted by Andy Perrine , Assoc. V.P. at James Madison University on October 6, 2006 at 4:40pm EDT
  • For any JMU students such as Amy McAleese above who feel as if they've not been provided enough information on the decision, Athletics Director Jeff Bourne took questions from the Student Government Association Senate on Tuesday night; has met with every team and coach, is meeting with parents and students this weekend; I took questions from the Student Ambassadors Wednesday night - the university administration is actively informing campus of the factors leading to this decision. There are many more meetings scheduled on campus. If you can't make one, all of us are available to you at any time. Please call my office and I'll answer any questions you ask.

    Also I believe it's important to note that the College Sports Council is now defending the JMU decision (see above). Thank you to Jim McCarthy for his civil approach to this difficult discussion. Thanks also for singling out Brandon Eickel; indeed JMU has terrific students.

    Andy

  • JMU eliminates sports
  • Posted by Jane Chudoba , Mrs. on October 6, 2006 at 8:35pm EDT
  • In response to Mr. Perrine of JMU. I am the parent of a JMU male swimmer. I have yet to receive a response to emails that I sent last Sunday to President Rose or Mr. Bourne, the Athletic Director. I have been informed of no parent meetings by the administration. I read the College Sports Council's comments on the www.collegeswimming.com web site and these are their exact words "The 144 student athletes at JMU are the latest in a long line of victims of the gender quota. They join the unfortunate others at Rutgers and Shippensburg who have dropped multiple teams. The coaches, athletes, and parents of the College Sports Council have said for years that Title IX's proportionality rule inevitably leads to the elimination of athletic opportunites. Now the administrators at JMU have said the same", said Eric Pearson. The CSC called for JMU to perform a survey of student interest in athletics instead of the quota system used in this decision. This does not sound like the CSC supports JMU as Mr. Perrine contends. For years my husband and I rose from bed at 4:30am because our son insisted on being in the pool for practice at 5am. This same child turned down several substantial academic scholarships at other institutions because he wanted to swim. We are paying JMU out of state tuition and are paying many team expenses. Our son has been able to continue a sport which he loves and JMU gets an extremely well disciplined, intelligent athlete. The cost to JMU has been a very small investment in the men's swim team. When JMU continued the men's and women's swim programs approximately 5-6 years ago when they eliminated the scholarships, they were applauded for continuing to support non revenue sports. When we asked the coach, as our son was being recruited, if this commitment to the sport would continue, we were assured that it would. We are extremely disappointed in JMU. Their decision to discontinue men's swimming is continuing a nationwide trend that is decimating this collegiate sport. It is becomming harder and harder to find schools that have men's swimming programs. As my son is a minority at JMU (39%men/61%women), I don't understand why eliminating the men's program to provide scholarships for the women's program is not discriminating against my son. If this situation were reversed, women would be screaming at the top of their lungs. There were other ways for JMU to comply with Title IX, including surveying the student body. JMU chose instead to dash the hopes and dreams of 144 student athletes, most of them male. We hope that the school will realize they have made a mistake and reverse the decision. By the way, Mr. Perrine, I am happy to rise again at 4;30am to crank out emails and write newspapers, magazines, friends, and lawyers to ensure that my son can continue the sport he loves and is not discriminated against.

  • Lamar Daniel Recants in New York Times
  • Posted by Andy Perrine , Assoc. V.P. at James Madison University on October 7, 2006 at 7:50am EDT
  • The following is included in an article on JMU's decision in today's New York Times:

    "But Lamar Daniel, a Title IX compliance consultant who was a key adviser for James Madison in the months before it announced the decision, was quoted on a Web site, Insidehighereducation.com, last week calling the university’s actions “a business decision.”

    “It’s not about Title IX,” the Web site quoted Daniel as saying.

    Asked about those comments Thursday, Daniel said in a telephone interview from his Georgia office: “I went too far and maybe overstated my case. I can’t say what was in their minds.”

    To Ms. Chudoba above, Dr. Rose and Jeff Bourne have been trying to keep up with e-mail. But as you might guess, we've been receiving a lot. You will hear from them soon. In the meantime if you have any questions you need answered right away, please call my office.

    Andy

  • A question for Mr. Perrine
  • Posted by Andrew Williams , Extremely upset at JMU on October 7, 2006 at 7:10pm EDT
  • Mr. Perrine,

    Earlier you said that JMU conducted a survey, and the BOV decided that this was their only option. Later, someone else said that he had not been asked about the issue, and was not aware of any such survey being given. I know the BOV contemplated getting rid of these teams in 2001 and a survey was given then which resulted in these teams being kept, but all their scholarships being removed. I have not seen a survey in my time here either, and am wondering how come you did not address this discrepency between your report and this student's.

    Another student brought up that some of the numbers regarding team membership were incorrect in the report that led to this decision. For instance, I was told that the report said JMU Wrestling had 36 team members, when I know for a fact that there are only 28 (I tried out last year and did not make the team, partly due to the strict cap at 28 athletes that wrestling is allowed). The totals for all these miscounts overestimate the JMU male athlete population by over 40. Again, these concerns were not addressed in any of your posts here.

    You also said that JMU investigated all of its options, and decided that the removal of all 10 of these programs was its only option. A member of our swim team suggested why not only cut a few of these teams instead of all 10. By cutting only the men's Indoor Track and Field team, we could lower the men's numbers by 38. In conjunction with cutting just a couple of athletes from each of the other teams (and using the correct count of Male athletes), the numbers suddenly come much closer to reflecting our enrollment. But once again, You claim that this was the BOV's only option and discreetly step back from acknowledging some of the more troubling issues around this decision.

    Another administrator was quoted in The Breeze as saying part of the reason these teams were chosen as victims of the cut was because they were not competitive, and could not be competitive without full funding. This is simply not true! Our Archery team is the best in the country; after the scholarships cuts of 2001, Wrestling and Swimming both dropped to the bottom of the conference, but in the last couple of years (with the help of GREAT new coaches) have moved into spots where winning the CAA championships are not at all out of reach. To borrow the words of our swimmers, we can be competitive without scholarships, but not without a team.

    Well I'm calling you out on all of this. Why the discrepencies?

  • Dual Requirements
  • Posted by William Pratesi , Student at Auburn University on October 9, 2006 at 5:50am EDT
  • So here's the scoop-
    Title IX requires that funding be equal based on the gender distribution in athletics.
    Title IX requires that the number of varsity level teams be equal based on gender distribution throughout the college/university.

    This means that the number of teams total has to be proportional to the institutions gender split, but then the men's teams and women's teams have the be funded based on how participation by each gender. Each team can be as big as it wants, as long at the number of teams is in compliance, and the overall funding of the teams is in compliance. This causes some teams to be dropped to accomodate new teams and new coaches being hired, and it requires some teams to slim down their rosters to accomodate new athletes and the cost to outfit them. This is why JMU dropped 3 women's teams and 7 men's teams, because that way they keep to the sports distribution clause and the funding clause. It's really complicated mathematically, but very easy conceptually.

    Get over yourselves- though JMU might have been able to just drop the men's teams for that clause, they probably couldn't afford to increase the funding for the second clause.

    Title IX is a good idea, but it needs to be reformed or scrapped. It is a poor piece of legislation.

  • Posted by CP on October 10, 2006 at 5:05am EDT
  • One question that needs to be asked of the administration is, "What had been done in the last five years to comply with Title IX?" When this topic came up before most men's and some women's sports lost their funding. Back then the male/female ratio was disproportionate as it is now but it seems nothing has been done to correct this. To me it appears that the University just didn't care enough about these sports or most of all these students to correct this problem.
    In response to Gary's comments above, you ask the alumni why they have not given back to save the teams. If you truly believe that is the reason these cuts are happennig then you don't agree with the administration either. Their claim is that it has nothing to do with finances but everything to do with being in compliance with Title IX. Overall it doesn't take much to support these teams. I am a former male swimmer at JMU and I can tell you first hand that most of the equipment I used was purchased by myself or my parent's. This goes for the rest of the team as well. We were issued used swim suits at the beginning of the year to practice in. I don't need to explain how disgusting that was. However, we never complained because it wasn't about getting new "stuff" to be their. We were all their for the love of our sport, our teammates and most of all our university.
    I am also appalled at the way the university handled this situation in notifiying the affected teams. From a public relations perspective it makes great sense to make the announcement on a Friday afternoon, it speaks volumes of how the university truly feels about the affected teams and the students involved. To top that off the athletic director didn't even have the guts to notify the teams himself. It disguts me.
    I have always talked highly of my experiences at JMU and I wouldn't be the person I am today without those experiences. But it makes it very hard to convey those same sentiments now. When JMU decided to start these sports years ago, they made a committment to support the sport and its athletes. I feel that the university has not only let these athletes down but they have also let down the university as a whole. Rich traditions were built over the past 25-30 years. Traditions that still play a part in many current and former athlete's lives.
    Which brings me back to my original statement, "What had been done in the last five years to make the univerisity equally proportionate and in compliance with Title IX?"

  • Wow
  • Posted by Amy , JMUArcher at James Madison on October 10, 2006 at 9:25pm EDT
  • This is obviously a very emotionally charged issue for the students involved and I was trying not to let that come through in my previous post; but when I, a private student, am singled out by an administrator and then see that same administrator present untruths as fact, it's hard for me to continue in a purely intellectual manner, so here you go:

    As I indicated earlier, I was surprised to see such a high-ranking JMU official using a comments board as a platform from which to present the official JMU position; I'm even more surprised to see said offical singling me out.
    Well, I still don't feel like I have enough information. Bourne may have talked to these non-athletic student organizations (though no one outside of them knew he was speaking), but he HAS NOT met with the archery team. And from what I've heard, these meetings he's given so far have been little more than repetitions of the press release and non-answers. In fact, I requested that student athletes be allowed to attend a meeting Bourne held with some of the SGA shortly after the decision was announced and was denied. So please do not imply that I have not made an effort to gather as much information as possible.

    As far as the administration "actively informing campus of the factors leading to this decision," I'm not sure what on earth you're talking about. The emailed copy of the press release sent out on that Friday in September? ...I'm honestly trying to think of what you meant by this, but that's about all I can come up with.

    As for the CSC's "defense" of the JMU decision, I can't speak for that organization, but it is my understanding that they are still calling for an application of the survey option.

    And finally, the one thing I agree with you on: Brandon is a great example of the high caliber of students you can find at JMU. In fact, as president of the SGA he has led the charge in passing a bill of opinion calling for a reconsideration of the Board's decision, condemning the way the university has handled this issue, and lending the full support of the SGA to "the students before all other groups involved."

    SOS!

  • Posted by Andrew Williams , Still Extremely Annoyed at JMU on October 11, 2006 at 5:35am EDT
  • Amen, Amy.

    I would also like to point out that Mr. Perrine has not responded to any of my previous comments on this forum. Instead, he tracked me down to email me and ask for a private meeting. Hmm, interesting.

    In response to Gary's comments, I have also noticed JMU's efforts to recruit fencers. Personally I would prefer the administration to reach out to include more women in athletics than to give over 100 athletes the axe. Gary is right on one account though: I don't think that anyone can make an economic case for keeping the fencing team. However, JMU is not a business (at least in theory). It exists to educate and provide its students with opportunites to participate, whether that's in Student Government, a film club, community service organizations, or varsity athletics. If this institution made all of its decision based on what made economic sense, we would not have any teams (even our football team, traditionally most schools' biggest money maker, loses money. In fact, they lose more than twice as much each year as it costs to fund all 10 of the cut teams combined), any clubs, or even exist. State schools cost more to run than they bring in from tuition. That's just the way it is. Society has decided the cost is worth the benefits of increased education, socialization, and participation. Why can't JMU run its programs by the same principles that allow the institution to exist?

    I would also like to mention that plenty of people do support our ill-fated teams by attending athletic events. I know that I have gone to almost every wrestling match since I have been enrolled here. I heard a girl on the gymnastic team mention a time 2 years ago when they had to ask some people to leave their meet because the gym was too full. And even if that weren't the case, it's really not fair to hold student athletes accountable for minimal interest in their sports by others. These teams aren't funded the way that the football team is; they dont have the budget to print off 10,000 flyers and hang banners telling people about their meets. Also, more people of the general population know the rules or basketball or football, and are more likely to go see one of those games than to go to an Archery meet and not know what is going on.

    In terms of donations, Gary is certainly right that alumni should support their sports. However, it's not always quite as simple as it seems. Phil Vassar, country music star and former JMU runner, asked to create a continuing fund of $50,000 a year allocated to the track team. To me, that seems like a hell of a good way to build an endowment and show the university that alumni support and want this sport around. The university refused his offer and instead decided to kill the program.

    This is a great university. I love it here. And, until now, I've always found it to be friendly and supportive. I hope the administration realizes what they're doing, and reverse this ridiculous and harmful decision.

  • Keeping Up the Good Fight
  • Posted by Jim McCarthy at College Sports Council on October 11, 2006 at 5:35am EDT
  • On behalf of the College Sports Council, I'd like to follow up on a few points made in this thread. First, the students of JMU, their coaches, parents and supporters all deserve high praise for your determination and the principled stand you are making. We have seen scores of teams cut throughout the country but nowhere has a student body been so galvanized or resolved. The news stories that have appeared (NYT last weekend and Sports Illustrated yesterday, for example) are an incredible indicator of your hard work. Believe me, getting the national media to take a critical look at Title IX enforcement isn't easy but you are doing it, and with the simple power of your voices (paging Washington Post sports editor, come to a white courtesy phone). Keep it up -- you are a beacon for college teams everywhere right now.

    I appreciate Andy Perrine's call for a level-headed discourse on the issues at hand. That's no small task when feelings are so rightly heated. It is important to understand that the federal government and the Title IX litigation specialists put schools in a terrible, wrenching bind over when, how and why to put forward proportionality compliance.

    The CSC absolutely believes that teams and their coaches should be involved in the process and informed every step of the way. Even when that happens, though, schools are still over a tough barrel. It's worth noting that many schools cutting teams lack the basic integrity to admit that proportionality drove their decisions. Howard University, for example, recently cut their men's wrestling and baseball programs, both a century old, and the school falsely claimed budget. JMU owned up to the truth and that counts. We'll leave it to the students to assess whether that candor came soon enough or is continuing.

    Yes, a survey should absolutely be conducted -- of every student, men and women. It is easy, fair, accurate and inexpensive. Also, and critically, the Department of Education needs to provide more latitude and more compliance options for schools. Much more. I can assure you, the feds have a close eye on what's happening at JMU right now and you, the students, ought to look them squarely back and demand fairness. You've got the momentum -- apply it.

    Finally, don't let anyone in this debate push you around or condescend to you. In this thread, Welch Suggs says you should forget your "national aspirations" and drop football to Division III. Lawyer Nancy Hogshead-Makar tells you that equality can mean "bringing down the previously advantaged group." Activist Donna Lopiano is quoted in the above article saying, "[JMU] did this because they want the men's sports to be better, too."

    Does that sound like encouragement to you? Or a patronizing and demeaning lecture from the very people who have fostered and applauded the proportionality system? I think JMU students can aim higher than that, despite what those naysayers think.

    This fight is far from over -- so keep your head in the game, and your heart too.

  • Posted by daniel boyle , forcing or encouraging on October 11, 2006 at 10:00am EDT
  • Some absolutely great posts and some that completely missed the mark.
    It seems pretty clear to me that the administrators have wanted these teams cut for awhile and they finally did it. To say it is not for budget reasons when you are saving that much money and then putting it back into other sports seems contradictory. Your making those new sports more competitive by increasing scholarships for them. Regardless of what teams you give the scholarships to. It's that simple. You could always cut some of the football scholarhips and put that money into those teams instead of cutting teams to save money. They can give out scholarships however they see fit as long as they are equal male to female. They could cut football and give all the scholarships to the tennis team if they wanted to. Why not just cut the money from the football team and comply to Title IV through the survey option.
    It is important to also look at other things besides a teams yearly budget. Such as practice facilities. Finding space and time for 28 teams to practice was probably quite a burden which they are now free of. It is convenient that this makes you title IV compliant because then you can use that as a reason.
    It also seems clear that the survey option was not used. If they were used then what club teams wanted to become varsity sports? Was it feasible that these club teams could field a full team? Would it have been possible for them to find teams to compete against? With 28 teams it seems they should have most sports covered that could possibly answer yes to these questions. If they can't name a sport for women that answers yes to those questions then they can use the survey prong to show that they are meeting the women's need for sports. Hardly anyone uses proportionality. Especially when the proportion of men to women is that skewed.
    Title IV was not the reason those teams were cut.
    That being said Title IV should be completely re-written. It is ancient and out of date. The problem with it is that it is practically forcing girls to play sports. As stated in a previous post some varsity sports at schools beg girls to join their team just so they can field a full team. Were not just talking less popular sports like fencing, but cross country, track, swimming. These sports even have scholarships that could go unused. The thing we all have to realize is that as a whole female college students are less interested in playing sports at the college level. I'm not saying that women are less important or anything like that. I'm just saying we can't expect the proportion of male to female athletes to be the same as student body proportions. They have been blatantly encouraging girls for 30 years to play sports and we still aren't anywhere close to having all schools proportional. I think it is fair to say looking at that information that females are less interested. Why should the men suffer when the women don't even want to play. It makes no sense.

  • Look at the Budgets
  • Posted by Michael J. Roth on October 11, 2006 at 4:10pm EDT
  • One question here: How is the university, as a non-profit organization, justifying the budgetary expenses of football and basketball which cause those programs to have a negative balance sheet?

    People like to call them revenue producers. This is a fallacy. The vast majority of college football & basketball programs LOSE money. JMU is no different. Try initiating some fiscal control of these money pits and you would NEVER have had to cancel the other sports.

    If any business was run like your athletic department, it would have gone Chapter 11 a long time ago. The Enron-like accounting policies of NCAA programs has got to stop because it is borderline criminal.

  • Always another way
  • Posted by Raleigh Marshall , Alumni, former TKD club president on October 11, 2006 at 4:10pm EDT
  • As a recent alumni and avid supporter of sporting diversity, this decision comes rather suddenly and without proper preparation in my opinion. If the school merely sought Title IX compliance, why did it not encourage participation of women in the available varsity sports first? In my 4.5 years at JMU I have never witnessed a major recruiting attempt for women's varsity sports, this would have been an intuitive place to start if the true goal was Title IX compliance. I think this news came with way too little warning, as someone else mentioned, the decision should have been made for 2010, so freshman who had these sports in mind when deciding on schools are not robbed of their opportunities.

    Also in response to Andy P's defense that the money was reinvested back into the sports programs so it was not about money: Where was this money re-invested? I have a feeling the bulk of it went into JMU's football team, which has received a number of controversial investments solely for it's use in very recent history. It is no secret that having a top division football team is a cash cow for any university, is this another JMU investment in it's football program? I personally have no problem with JMU plugging it's football program, but not at the sacrifice of what makes JMU great ... diversity. Believe it or not, one of the major reasons I chose JMU was the number of clubs, varsity sports, and intramural teams. Making these programs less diverse and more competitive (exclusive) would be a negative for many students I would imagine.

    I do support the administration's decision to admit the most qualified students and refusing to attempt gender balancing. I am a male and I still support this decision, if it is indeed true. I think every JMU student has said at one time or another: "how the heck did that moron get into this school?".
    Also, the cutting of 3 women's teams (which I gather happened because of the elimination of their male counterparts) has yet to be clearly explained from what I have read.

  • The US Olympic Committee
  • Posted by JMUarcher , JMU Archer at James Madison University on October 11, 2006 at 6:35pm EDT
  • Here's the response from the USOC:
    http://www.usarchery.org/html/JMULetter.html

    I wonder if JMU will be open to discussing alternative solutions with them?

  • Posted by Kate , Basketball on October 12, 2006 at 10:45am EDT
  • As as student at JMU, I am absolutley outraged by this decision. We have world class athletes on the teams that were cut! If they really wanted to save money, then the athletic department should stop trying to make our football team move up to Division 1 A. Let's face it... although I am a Dukes football fan, there is no way they could compete on the same playing field as Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Georgia State, Penn State, etc. Also, they should have just cut our men's basketball team... they're terrible anyway.

  • Posted by Jane Chudoba on October 15, 2006 at 7:20pm EDT
  • Title IX is a 37 word law that states:
    "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."
    What is happening at JMU is clearly sex discrimination for the men's sports that are being eliminated. JMU's Board of Visitors has chosen to let the 144 athletes and their parents with the help of alumni and outraged students challenge this law. As the parent of one of the athletes, I find that unconscionable. JMU is named after James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution". The university should reverse their decision and stand up to the Department of Education and NCAA, saying,"the current interpretation of this law is itself illegal and we will not be participate in any interpretation that discriminates based upon sex." If not, JMU should change the name of the university.
    It does not honor James Madison.

  • Profitability
  • Posted by Gary , Alum at JMU on October 17, 2006 at 10:31am EDT
  • In response to Michael Roth's comment:

    How do you define the profitability of a sports team? I grew up an FSU football fan (and was nearly an FSU student), and as such, have half a dozen hats, and 5 or 6 t-shirts bearing the seminole. That's gotta be $100 or more worth of goods, which through royalties, ends up back in the University's pockets. Would I buy them without FSU football? No. Does it end up on their income statement? No. You're probably right. You're probably right.

    Ticket sales - salries, supplies, scholarships, etc = gross loss.

    But what is the real value of a powerhouse football team? What did playing in the final 4 do for Mason this year? My girlfriend went to the bookstore during the final 4, they had virtually NO t-shirts left, and a line down the hall to buy one.

    ...and you can't have a negative balance sheet... it balances. Assets = Liabilities + Net Assets (since we're talking about a not-for-profit)