Mental Health Injustice Comment to Michelle M.

You are not alone. I have a 12 year old daughter who has been suffering since the age of 4 with severe anxiety. It has been a rough 7 years with the School district. Last year she missed a total of 65 days of school regarding this and they still did not want to help me. I went to an outside advocate and got some help, things are still going bad and like you I am the bad one. I have hired a lawyer and my daughter is going to recieve homebound services untill we can get her the help she needs in the district. Do not give up. Fight for what is right. She has had 7 years of her life taken away from her at school and I have had enough. Contact the state, Contact the ISD and Contact an attorney. It is the only way they will stand up and listen. I wish you all the luck in getting help for your daughter.

Rose W., at 10:05 am EST on March 8, 2008

legal duty

The case seems to raise the issue that the univeristy has a legal duty to the student to ascertain his mental state of mind before forcing him to leave and the univeristy violaetd that duty.

edd welsh, professor at Mesa Community College, at 7:55 am EST on November 1, 2006

All due respect to George Washington, this was really shockingly poor conduct and, most certainly, illegal as well.

This policy ought not be revised. It ought be scrapped.

And GWU ought apologize, loud, long and publicly.

Michigan Administrator, at 9:00 am EST on November 1, 2006

Age of Enlightenment?

Institutions of higher education and institutions in general do not seem to know how to handle mental health issues, an amazing phenomenon considering, for better or for worse, the pharmaceutical empire’s marketing and advertising campaigns. Common conditions such as depression are still considered somehow an anomaly, and policy overall does not seem to have kept pace with the growing awareness of these conditions. A large percentage of those suffering from mental illness are not dangerous to others, and those who could be dangerous generally can be treated to allow for a certain amount of mainstreaming IF they receive adequate intervention. I would have hoped higher education would be at the forefront of this more enlightened movement, and it looks like George Washington will be heading in the right direction.

kgotthardt, at 9:00 am EST on November 1, 2006

Mr. Welsh, The lawsuit did nothing of the sort! None of that was asserted in the complaint. The lawsuit alleged that the school 1) failed to follow its own rules in kicking the student off campus; and 2) failed to comport with a federal statute doing same. There is no free-standing duty of a college to assess a student’s mental health, unless the institution begins to treat the student or provide them with counseling.

AB, As a legal matter, a school which treats all students the same, and provides reasonable accommodations within the meaning of the ADA will not be subject to liability of a mentally ill student injures someone. Finally, as to your second comment, the school violated no criminal statute. I will admit that I am wrong if you can point to a single statute with a criminal penalty attached that the school violated. Otherwise, you have absolutely no basis for that statement, and, as an academic, you should understand the dangers of making such untrue and unresearched representations about the US Code, which is freely available.

Michigan, There is no reason to apologize for anything. This doesn’t help the discussion. Similar situations happen from time to time. In my experience, they are the result of wayward administrators with too much power and too little legal advice. Usually they say something stupid in a deposition.

Jill, Even before the ADA you likely had “legal recourse” under state law since schools must follow their own rules regarding expelling students, anyway. On the other hand, as someone who doesn’t believe in mental illness on a personal level, I think you have only yourself to blame for talking to people about your problems.

There are some outstanding issues that were not resolved in the suit, namely 1) the extent to which, under the ADA, a school must accommodate a suicidal student (who likely would not hurt others, anyway); 2) the extent to which the ADA’s and the 14th amendment partial abrogation of the 11th amendment applies in the District of Columbia to students which such mental problems.

Somehow schools keep thinking that students can’t be treated like adults. They are. Adults that do illegal things can be dealt with via the criminal justice system. Adults that act a little weird will be ignored. Adults that complain of health problems can see a doctor (and these students all have health insurance). Somehow some administrators think that they are parents of these kids, which they are not.

Larry, at 10:35 am EST on November 1, 2006

Thanks, Larry

Kudos for a well-written explanation. I always read your letters to flesh out these legal matters. Thanks.

Abby, assoc. prof., at 12:16 pm EST on November 1, 2006

reality or idealism?

Larry,

I don’t know that it’s always so much that administrators don’t think students can be treated as adults. Rather, often we seem to take the stance that it is our responsibility as Student Affairs Practitioners to challenge these students to grow and develop, rather than simply leave them to judicial proceedings.

I’ve worked in several residence life programs over the years at both public and private institutions, and the policies regarding the treatment of students who present with mental health issues ranges from one end of the spectrum to the other. The underlying similarity, however, seems to be to protect the department and the individual administrator from liability (but who can really say how best to do that?).

Of course, we folks in res life just love to help people even when our help does more harm than good. My general experience has been that there are many mid- and lower- level professionals that are being told any number of things by our superiors regarding how to respond, and few of us have much if any legal basis to know how best to protect ourselves. So, we’re in a constant struggle to really want to care for the student(s) and/or the community, but to be completely honest, I want to care for myself more and insure a continuing paycheck in the morning. Unfortunately that leads to a lot of confusion and personal motivations, and I can very well see how many would choose to just boot someone from the campus in order to try and protect themselves — I mean, the STUDENT (sorry).

Is it right? Perhaps. Is it wrong? Probably. I’m in no position to say. I’m too busy trying to get past all the rhetoric and figure out exactly what I can and can’t and shouldn’t and probably want to do in this particular case, but not in that one that’s pretty similar.

JA, at 1:45 pm EST on November 1, 2006

response to JA, RM and HB

JA, Thank you for your insightful comments. To begin, while I disagree that the role of an administrator is to help a student grow, at least you are being honest. If there is any growth to be accomplished in college, in my view, it should be in a purely academic manner. Administrators, by virtue of their position, have little to offer students. As to how to avoid liability, the best way is to consult your lawyers, who will probably tell you that the school should carefully define its role, and not take on duties that they can’t fulfill. This means: act like a landlord. Not like a parent or doctor.

AB, Most people here know that I have been in practice for well over a decade. You did not provide any actual criminal statutes, so now it seems that your claim that somehow GWU is subject to criminal liability is untrue. A statute would look something like this 18 U.S.C. Sec. 241 (this is the “conspiracy to violate civil rights” statute).

RM, I am not trolling. I don’t believe in mental illness. My culture frowns upon its use. Whether or not you respect my culture is immaterial. To be clear, if I ever felt depressed, angry, suicidal, or whatever I would not see a shrink. On the other hand, if I ever had a client whose interests fit within the current state of the law regrading mental illness, I would aggressively advocate for them. If I was a judge I would apply the law as it is given regardless of whether or not I personally believed in it. Therefore, there is no moral or ethical reason why I should not express my views on the law.

Larry, at 2:35 pm EST on November 1, 2006

Dear Larry

Larry,

Could you please clarify what you mean by saying that you don’t believe in mental illness? I appreciate you letting us know that some of your views are culturally informed (and thus, one could argue, arbitrary (i.e. born into it), unless you coincidentally explored various value systems, and ended up choosing one that happened to parallel your culture’s). Some cultures don’t believe in medicine, or probably law, for that matter. My own chosen culture believes in abiding by, but also questioning, law.

I am saddened to hear that, if you were suffering mentally, you would not seek appropriate help. Sad for you, for sure, but for me, as well, since what seemed like thoughtful arguments you presented are now harder to take seriously. That is, let’s say that, hypothetically, you happened to suffer from delusions, or a narcissistic or antisocial personality disorder, and didn’t seek help for it, your words could hold less weight, for me.

It is also sad that you seem to be less questioning of the law or your cultural values, but very quick to dismiss mental illness (or at least your own potential mental health needs). But that is your choice, of course. I am sharing my thoughts because it may be valuable to discuss, and consider, in this public forum, how this discussion may be limited and/or limiting.

Matt, at 9:50 am EST on November 2, 2006

Larry,

I appreciate that you are clear about your views, and you are aware they are mostly culturally determined. And I am glad that you potentially seek you own opinion, even if it is after 5-10 years and deep study (e.g. of the law, as you reference).

My hope is that after 5-10 years of exposure to mental illness and discussions like this one, you may begin to form more of an individually-determined, and not cultural-bound, view of mental illness.

Perhaps you will come to see, for example, that if a woman has her clitoris removed at age 12, then is discriminated against and demeaned for most of her life, her resulting depression may not be entirely “her fault.”

I personally am comfortable forming a new opinion about certain things without 5-10 years of study. But then again, I was raised in a culture that seems to encourage individual thought (to some extent) and awareness of others’ experiences. So i do give you the benefit of the doubt, and figure I am not holding much issue with Larry, here, but rather some rich and deep culture who’s values may have been more adaptive in the past, but may not be so much now.

So I do think that GW should apologize (but they probably won’t if that is the legal advice), if only for their own public image, which is quite tarnished in general (it is a top-ten most expenive school in the US, with a counseling center that charges around $50/session and almost always refers out by the 10th session, or so i have heard). They panicked, and handled the situation very poorly, IMHO. Even if they don’t apologize, i hope (for the sake of their students), that they are ashamed.

Matt, at 1:30 pm EST on November 2, 2006

I am SO glad that Jordan Nott has finally gotten some measure of justice for himself, and compensation for all the hardship and trauma that he has been forced to endure.

I wish that all of us, who have been discriminated against, and treated like common criminals.

Even those who should know better, like the nurses and doctors in hospital emergency rooms, discriminate against people seeking treatment for mental illness, treating them worse than a mass murderer, tying them to their bed, not giving them anything to eat or drink for hours on end, and even keeping them using the toilet, until they are ready to. It’s inhumane the way that those with mental illnesses are dealt with, compared to those who seek treatment for diabetes, chest pain, or car accidents.

However, it is finally a step in the right direction, that Jordan Nott was awarded a settlement, somewhat small though it was.

It’s about time that people wake up and realize that this is not the 18th or 19th century, and that people with mental illnesses are NOT helped by being treated like they have been possessed by the Devil and locked away in an insane asylum. THis is the 21st century, and we should NOT be treating the mentally ill like it’s the Middle Ages.

SHAME on GWU for perpetuating and promoting the already present stigma attached to mental illness.

After reading about recent cases like this, I just contacted the Bazelon Center about my options in filing a lawsuit against my former school district.

When I was in high school (public school) I was a “cutter"(a person who cuts/mutilates themselves not as a means of suicide, but rather as a way to cope, and deal with the stress, pain and trauma in their lives)

Even though I was in treatment, just because I had been suicidal in the past, my jerk principal, kept suspending me, each and every time he saw any cuts, scars, marks, or scratches on me.

Then he lied, and knowingly used forged documents to force me to graduate, when I did not have enough credits, and was not ready to graduate.

Since then, my life has been in shambles. Because I missed so many classes in high school, I was totally unable to pass, or even keep up in college classse — even remedial community college courses.

So after failing at one college after another, I finally gave up and dropped out. But especially without a college degree, in today’s economy, it’s practically impossible to get any decent job.

I have been out of work and looking for a job ever since I got laid off in January 2001 and still have not been able to find any decent employment.

Its been 10 years since I was forced to graduate, and I am still struggling — all because of my principal’s prejudice against mental illness.

I hope that I can still file a lawsuit against my former school district and high school principal, to not only get compensation, but also to finally get some justice for being discriminated against, and all that I have had to endure because of it.

Its not just colleges and universities that need to change and overhaul their current policies. Its the regular school districts too. Principals and other school administrators need to learn and realize that mental illness is just like any other physical illness, that it’s NOT contagious, and just as you would not suspend or keep a person who had a non-communicable disease from school, neither should you do so for those who suffer from depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder and other mental illnesses.

Ami, at 4:35 pm EST on November 26, 2006