News, Views and Careers for All of Higher Education
Jan. 23, 2007
Colleges, like factories, need to work with their “supplier community” to improve the quality of the raw materials they end up shaping, a business leader told a group of about 120 college leaders and state policy makers gathered in Washington Monday for a summit on higher education’s role in improving America’s high schools.
“You want products to come to your factory that are suitable,” Craig Barrett, chairman of the Intel Corporation’s board said in industry speak, pragmatically pointing to a challenge for higher education that so often is couched in more tender terms.
Speakers at Monday’s “Advancing College Readiness” summit outlined the role higher education leaders should play in ensuring that high school graduates learn the right skills and graduate ready for college and the workforce. But some in the audience, while enthusiastic about the premise and willing to work toward it, seemed a bit skeptical about the potential for change within a seemingly intractable system — skeptical, and even a bit cynical.
Among the longstanding challenges they pointed out were low respect and pay for teachers (and the poor job higher education has often done in preparing them), the failure of higher education leaders to agree on standards among themselves, let alone dictate them to high schools, and minimal incentives and opportunities for dialogue between the K-12 and higher education sectors.
In another speech to the group, Michael Cohen, president of Achieve, Inc., a nonprofit organization that focuses on helping states raise their standards, spotlighted the aims of the American Diploma Project, a coalition of nearly 30 states that has committed to aligning the K-12 curriculum with the demands of college and work.
“The high schools can’t improve college readiness on their own,” said Cohen. He outlined a four-part agenda for college leaders: to involve professors in identifying the knowledge and skills needed to succeed in credit-bearing courses; work with policy makers to ensure that when states review their graduation requirements, they make choices consistent with the demands of college-level work; collaborate with the K-12 sector to ensure that the assessment measures they use adequately measure college readiness (and could double as college placement tests); and to initiate a feedback loop, one that sends information about first-year students’ performance back to high schools as readily as it accepts data surrounding the challenges facing high school instruction.
About 40 to 45 percent of recent high school graduates report experiencing significant gaps in the skills they need for success in college and in the work place, Cohen said — evidence, he argued, that higher education leaders need to do a better job of communicating expectations to high schools, and ensuring those expectations are met. “The students are basically telling us that, ‘Nobody’s giving us very good signals about what we need to learn, what we need to take,’ ” Cohen said.
“There’s a moral imperative here,” Kathleen Schatzberg, president of Cape Cod Community College, said during a panel that also featured Nancy Grasmick, Maryland’s state superintendent of schools, and Mark Yudof, chancellor of the University of Texas System. “Over its history, American higher ed has played a role in moral leadership,” Schatzberg said, adding that articulation agreements between community colleges and four-year institutions could be used as a model for higher education’s collaboration with high schools.
Yudof added that universities should play a bigger role in researching educational policy and establishing clear, coherent scholarship opportunities to spread a message of access. “What you’re trying to influence are the conversations around the dining room table,” he said, stressing that any progress must result from cooperation with K-12 leaders, not coercion.
It would be hard to find fault with the good intentions displayed Monday by the higher education leaders. But real barriers to progress exist, and they weren’t ignored by many of the attendees. As Michael Kirst, a professor emeritus of education and business administration at Stanford University, pointed out during a question and answer session, the higher education and K-12 sectors have “had decades of growing apart, existing on their own.” After all, he noted, Monday’s summit was geared almost exclusively toward those on the higher education side of the fence (a scenario, it’s worth noting, that Schatzberg defended later in the day for allowing college leaders to set their own agenda without the risk that leaders from the two sectors would simply defer responsibility to one another).
How to best engage higher education leaders with “busy jobs” in a dialogue that hasn’t traditionally happened? Kirst asked. “What are the incentives, why do they do it, how do you give incentives?”
Such questions served as entryways for debate during Monday’s summit, which featured a number of discussion groups, in addition to talks by Sara Martinez Tucker, the new U.S. under secretary of education, and the governor of North Carolina. The summit was sponsored by Achieve, the American Council on Education, the National Association of System Heads and the State Higher Education Executive Officers.
“I’m more cynical than most,” Stephen G. Sylvester, vice chancellor for academic affairs at the University of Hawaii West Oahu said of the progress being planned under the umbrella of Monday’s summit. “What I hear is the same story: We need to tell high schools what to do. Frankly, we don’t really know what we expect college grads to do.”
“I’m involved in this because I think it’s worth doing,” he said, but added that, “somehow, students need a better way to determine what’s important.”
“Pretending that faculty, high school or college, can tell them what’s important, is not it,” he said. “If we don’t convince students that the future is what they’re looking at, all of this probably isn’t going to be very helpful.”
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Kathleen Schattzberg is right on the money. Community colleges are one of the keys to this issue. They have not only been successful with articulation to 4-year institutions, but have also forged partnerships with high schools to prepare their students for college through dual credit and early college arrangements.
Most of the steps outlined by Stevens Amidon (who is obviously familiar with his institution’s neighbor and my employer, Ivy Tech Community College) are being accomplished at community colleges.
At my CC campus, we have dual credit arrangements with local HSs in first-year general education subjects. Some of those courses are taught by HS teachers who meet college qualifications, but there are also a lot of HS students taking courses right here on our campus taught by our professors. The HS students are earning a HS diploma and a college transcript. The general education credits they earn are transferable to four-year institutions under articulation agreements negotiated between us and 4-year universities (providing curriculum oversight by the 4-year institutions). We are not the only institution offering this arrangement.
Admittedly, this model is new to everyone and is still in development. And we have found pockets of resistance among the 4-year institutions to accepting our credits. But state legislators see the link between education and economic development, and the role that community colleges play, and are putting budgetary pressure on the 4-years to come to the table.
Ultimately, its about finding the right path to higher education for each student.
Tom McCool, at 7:50 am EST on January 23, 2007
The key to alignment, as Mark Yudof suggests in this piece, is dialogue, not directives. Often, university educators fall back on telling high school teachers what they expect, rather than working with secondary teachers (and with elementary teachers, as well) to develop a shared understanding of expectations that can inform curriculum. What do we value? What should students know and be able to do? Developmentally, where does it make sense for them to start developing those skills, and how can we both return to and build on them throughout education?
As a participant in the revision of Michigan’s secondary ELA curriculum standards, I can attest to the issues with a process — like the one designed by Achieve and the ADP — that involves college faculty (and business leaders, in a separate session) “telling” secondary teachers what they expect — it didn’t go over well in our group of college faculty feedback session, certainly. The same goes for teaching “college” classes in high school. Alignment should be a process rooted in dialogue, not directives.
Linda Adler-Kassner, Director of First-Year Writing at Eastern Michigan University, at 8:35 am EST on January 23, 2007
I have always been amazed at the arrogance of the collegiate community when it comes to the high school curriculum. Colleagues commonly berate students’ background in x, y or z without ever having done a systematic study of what students learned (or should have learned) about x, y or z. Just because a student doesn’t volunteer a monograph on a subject doesn’t mean there is not prior knowledge there a professor can plumb,
Emmanuel, Professor of Education at Simpson College, at 8:41 am EST on January 23, 2007
This seems to be a common development these days. I’ve seen it at every level of education whether academically or athletically. Each level of activity is almost always concerned with success at their level as opposed to preparation for the next level. My kids played middle school basketball and the overriding concern was the win-loss record rather than the skill set developed for the high school level. The same applies for the high school athletic programs.
I believe this mentality exists in academics also. Everyone worries about and plans their programs based on performance on the big state/federal tests that rank their school rather than developing the fundamental skills needed to perform at the next level. Colleges are guilty of this also. How many tech schools only teach minimal communication and writing skills? Those of us in the tech industry realize the importance of these skills, especially in corporate advancement is in the individual’s plans.
The scales used to measure performance at every level should be based on the success of the student at the next level. Instituations have failed if an A student flounders at the next level.
Jim Anderson, Parent, at 8:45 am EST on January 23, 2007
With dual enrollment offerings sprouting up overnight at High Schools like mushrooms, the state of Florida was surprised to learn that it has significant faculty credentialing problems that threaten its ambitious plans to accelerate the accumulation of college credits by students.
Our preliminary look revealed that almost %50 of the HS instructors lacked best practice qualifications, as established by the Southern Association, to teach transferable college credit courses.
This is what Tom isn’t telling you.
However, Florida administrative officials deserve credit for at least recognizing the problem. “We as a state … may need to go back and reaffirm the importance of these [faculty] standards – as quality control mechanisms,” commented ACC chairman. (http://www.firn.edu/doe/postsecondary/pdf/accminutes_52406.pdf )
But in the frenzy of being able to relocate colleges in high schools, the distinction between secondary and postsecondary education has disappeared. High schools have become branch campuses of the CC’s, funded by the states and staffed by high school teachers, and the CC’s have become high schools (the result of their own widespread faculty QC problems).
Glen S. McGhee, Dir., at Florida Higher Education Accountability Project, at 9:01 am EST on January 23, 2007
All the suggestions given in previous comments are excellent. I would suggest, however, that the way K12 schools are administratively and academically organized needs a major makeover to foster a real desire for students to learn. Curricula would better follow European models. Administratively, schools (especially high schools) seem to be organized more along the lines of correctional systems than academic institutions. Robert Fuller, in his book “Somebodies and Nobodies": Rankism and the Abuse of Rank", points out that such systems degrade students and rob them of their respect, encouraging bullying (as well as being a form of bullying in themselves) and making students simply wish they did not have to go to school. I think the problem is much more complex than just academic standards, teacher pay, credit transfers and teacher training. It also involves a very wide cultural gap.
David Stocum, at 9:16 am EST on January 23, 2007
The presumption is that college prep students DESIRE real preparation for college. This is not the case.
My wife teaches AP English at a suburban middle-class high school. She has trained hard to do so, and her curriculum is entirely in line with what I teach in freshman English at my 4 year liberal arts college. Large numbers of her students (1) doubt her veracity about the college experience (2) submit first-draft, night-before work (3)hold jobs and social life as higher priorities, (4) resist her corrections and suggestions.
It’s not high schools not preparing students. To a significant degree, it’s individuals not preparing themselves, despite excellent opportunities to do so.
William Snyder, at 9:16 am EST on January 23, 2007
It seems, in the era of high-stakes testing, that assessment has become a dirty word. However, how can we expect to inform prospective college students of what is expected of them if we can’t clearly identify the expected outcomes of a higher education? Lofty rhetoric about life-long learning and well-rounded graduates doesn’t go very far in informing students about expectations for adequate preparation to succeed in advanced studies.
Curricular alignment requires a clear understanding and articulation of measurable student outcomes at the highest levels and then an effort to “backward plan” the curriculum to ultimately achieve those outcomes.
Until we force ourselves to come to terms with concrete student outcomes at the post-secondary level, we simply cannot expect alignment between our entry needs and high school graduation requirements.
Rick Pearce, Associate Director for Academic Affairs at Illinois Board of Higher Education, at 9:16 am EST on January 23, 2007
” .. Large numbers of her students .. (2) submit first-draft, night-before work (3)hold jobs and social life as higher priorities, (4) resist her suggestions ..”
ABSOLUTELY!! The students think it is a game, and they deceive and cheat at every opportunity, using Clinton/DeLay moral relativism as rationale.
They are forced to go to high school and do not pay one penny, so they have nothing invested in the process.
They think college is required for any job paying over $40,000/year (thanks to the Grigg case), so they go. And torment any faculty with minimal standards.
Unfortunately, what those little geniuses (and their enabling ‘copter parents) haven’t figured out is that employers have also figured out the game.
Given the absolute failure of public education, more employers are administering rigouous pre-employment exams. Which are not subject to whining from students and/or their parents. At that point, the students are doomed.
C. Bigsby, at 9:55 am EST on January 23, 2007
We need more parental involvement to get students prepared for college.
Pam, at 9:55 am EST on January 23, 2007
Pam, What does that mean? Parents that want to be involved are involved. Parents that don’t want to be involved won’t be. How can you “make” a parent become involved on such an deep level, anyway?
C. Bigsley, Will you explain what this “moral relativism” is that people are talking about? Both Clinton and Delay were (and still are) regarded as being good people by many. Indeed, at their peaks they enjoyed tremendous popularity and were considered “moral.” I suspect that their morals stayed the same and your morals changed. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
Also, “real” employers don’t administer pre-employment exams. Sure, people that work in retail or in lower-paying jobs might have to take one, but I don’t think that college-educated have yet been lowered to such indignities yet.
Larry, at 10:25 am EST on January 23, 2007
Ohio has had a dual enrollment program (Post Secondary Education Opportunity, I think it’s called) for a very long time. Sometimes college instructors go to the students (often via interactive TV), but mostly the students come to the college campus.
I’ve found that a few of those students, who must meet gpa and other criteria, are mature enough for college level work. They don’t have a vision of the world, for the most part, that allows them to read and write as well as many college students. It breaks my heart to give them Cs (which count as their high school grade, too, lowing the high school GPA), but the naive responses are not college level work.
My advice to most high school students is to stay in high school where the curriculum is aimed at children with high school levels of development.
Jay Wootten, Kent State University, at 10:50 am EST on January 23, 2007
How can we move this conversation to the public forum? As an education researcher,I am well aware of this issue. But most people aren’t and trust that the educational system is aligned at the course, program and institutional levels. In spite of knowing this, I was still shocked when my child encountered 4 different teachers’ opinions and expectations of writing assignments within the same English department at her medium sized high school. She wasn’t given a map of how to navigate that system, and had to write her first paper in each course to learn , for example, that the “5 paragraph essay” required her sophomore year was not the format desired by her teacher the next year. It wasn’t until senior year in AP English did she, always an A student, really learn how to write well.
This lack of alignment within one departmment in one school is nothing compared to the larger gap between high school and college. Fixing what Grubb has called “shark-infested waters” that exist between our islands of separate courses and between educational institutions (that our students must swim through) MUST be a priority. And along with that initiative, we have to find a way to track and measure their progress as they travel among institutions, from seconday to postsecondary levels, or we won’t be able to prove the gains to those who draft and legislate educational policy.
Cathy, college professor, researcher, and parent, at 11:01 am EST on January 23, 2007
High school principals readily acknowledge that senior year is often a wasteland. Using online college courses is a fantastic opportunity to continue to motivate high school students and to help them to jump start their college career; it also demonstrates to colleges the potential readiness for college level work. Massachusetts Colleges Online(www.mco.mass.edu) currently points students to over 100 courses that our member colleges have opened to high school students. High schools often grant credit for courses in mutiple subject areas that interest and challenge their students.
David Kelley, Executive Director at Mass Colleges Online, at 11:01 am EST on January 23, 2007
Mr. Kelley, Why does online courses help anyone? If students are going to prepare for “real” colleges, they might as well have real opportunities to interact in the way that they will in the coming years. Besides, many people simply don’t respect online learning, because it still caries a bad stigma.
High schools have long been granting, on case-by-case basis (or sometimes are part of an organized program, in better neighborhoods) credit for college courses. Some schools drag their feet, claiming that it takes away from the “high school” experience, but this is generally nothing that a motivated parent can’t overcome.
Larry, at 11:35 am EST on January 23, 2007
The tenor of the comments suggest one of the major issues; people wanting the high schools to become colleges (dual enrollment courses) and the colleges offering remedial courses. In the 19th century students went to college at 15. Attendance at an academy was optional and life expectancy was around ages 40-50. By the mid part of the 20th century atendance at high school was becoming expected, college began at 18, and life expectancy was rising to over 65. Why did those changes occur? The education changes occurred because life became more complicated, one needed to know more to function at the appropriate levels in society. The rise in age expectancy allowed society to raise the length of time devoted to education.
Today, life expectancy continues to rise but our society seems convinced that students should be sent out inot the world at an earlier age desspite that real fact that the world has continued to be come more complex and the knowledge base to operate in that world has continued to become larger. Isn’t there a disconnect here? Shouldn’rt reform consider that maybe what students need to time to learn and not rush on to the next level. Studnets scarcely have time to learn that the American Revolution occurred in 1776 before educators and politicians want them analyzing the primary sources related to motivations of various groups to support or not support the Revolutionary goals. Is it a surprise that students are befuddled and cannot recall knowledge?
Instead of trying to cram two years of college into fours years of high school, maybe as a society we should ask why does someone need to start working at age 22 when they will work and/or live to an age of 85-95? What lessons can we learn from the discussion at the turn of the century when society raised the length of schooling? The conference was interesting to read about, but did it ask the right questions and query the right data?
KEL
Kurt Leichtle, at 12:16 pm EST on January 23, 2007
Larry wrote: “Mr. Kelley, Why does online courses help anyone? If students are going to prepare for “real” colleges, they might as well have real opportunities to interact in the way that they will in the coming years. Besides, many people simply don’t respect online learning, because it still caries a bad stigma.”
That is quite an outdated attitude about on-line learning. On-line learning is the most rapidly growing segment of higher education. I shared some of those reservations about it a few years ago, until I actually took a few courses — through Mass Colleges On-line actually. I had originally attended UCLA in the 1980s but left with a few requirements unmet. I recently resumed progress mostly through on-line courses.
I took some standard American Literature and American History courses through Northern Essex Community College. The required daily on-line discussions were far more interesting and rigorous that the most lively in-class discussions I’ve ever experienced. It also meant that every student was forced to make comments in writing as well as to analyze and thoughtfully respond to other students’ comments. Increasingly taking on-line courses will be a component of most students’ college experience.
Switching back to the general discussion topic here, I agree with the comments about individual responsibility for learning. We cannot just narrowly consider education in terms of acquisition of skills and knowledge. There is also a social maturity factor that is highly relevant. Many high school and even college students do not yet possess the personal discipline, life context, or academic motivation to take full advantage of their educational oppportunities. We need more alternative pathways that allow people to explore meaningful experiential opportunities while young and restless as well as more support for returning to more traditional academic learning later in life when more ready. Sometimes I think that the college experience is wasted on most 18-year-olds.
John S, at 1:14 pm EST on January 23, 2007
Consider our recent book on the kindergarten through college curricularconnections:
http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/porqua.html
Marco Portales, Professor of English at Texas A&M University, at 1:24 pm EST on January 23, 2007
Give a man a fish; you have fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime. . . That seems to be at the basis of what this debate is about. What do you expect students to be able to do in the end? I EXPECT them to be able to THINK well enough to function at their age level in this increasingly complicated world. They cannot memorize all the information or knowledge they might acquire at any level, K-12 or post-secondary, but they can learn to think through how to act upon that acquired knowledge both individually and collectively for the good of self and the society. Consequently, as an educator I have to learn from them what they need me to teach them to function in our increasingly complex world. I have to remain a learner in the teaching-learning equation, so they can continue to teach me to learn what they need to function at any level — primary, high school, workforce, or post-secondary training/education. It’s a life long and lifetime commitment for our learners now.Let’s teach them to think for a day, and they will continuously learn for a lifetime. . .
C Dianne Colbert, at 2:05 pm EST on January 23, 2007
Back in the day, when there were no high schools, elementary schools taught much of what exists in high school curricula. Kids normally entered university after elementary school if they were ready. If not, they went to preparatory school.
Now, we have colleges teaching remedial skills that should have been covered in high school, and were once taught in elementary school. At the same time, there are plenty of students still quite capable of handling the old model of education. Take a look at Simon’s Rock College, and the Bard High School Early College.
T M, at 3:21 pm EST on January 23, 2007
I think there have been many excellent points presented in this discussion. But what I find lacking here and in most discussions on matters of education is that students do not get the why of education while they are being educated. From my experience, when career options are part of the curriculum, students have a way to understand the knowledge they gaining and a way to organize and assimilate the different facets of the bits of information they receive.
Lindy, at 3:30 pm EST on January 23, 2007
The falsehood of separate but equal opportunity, within our public secondary and postsecondary schools, has been the catalyst for the “blurring” of our educational system. Yet, within our dialogues, we can affirm and seek to implement the quality controls that will enable our country’s future.
Mary Murphy, Assessment Coordinator at Florida Community College — South Campus, at 3:30 pm EST on January 23, 2007
Wow — is this a hot button topic!!!!!!! I think the fact that so many different folks in edu have weighed in on this is terrific. BUT. Do we really want the agenda governed by ACHIEVE?????? That’s number 1. And number 2 — I decry, detest, reject and every other fancy word I can think of, the likening of students to automobile parts and the comparison of the school with the factory. Or else, just say it like it is: edu is entirely corporatized and we are training workers to run our machines and software and WE DON"T CARE about the life of the mind unless we can sell it. Finally, universities and NGO’s should be sponsoring and furthering these conversations with $$$ and time (which is also $$$), so that we can indeed figure out how to create a better dialogue between k-12 and college.ps— paying EVERY teacher from pre-k on would help.
Stephanie Hammer, cultural worker (tenured) at UC Riverside, at 7:05 pm EST on January 23, 2007
” .. Will you explain what this “moral relativism” is ..”
See Churchill, W.L., “I’m Always Right, Larry’s Always Wrong” ..
” .. Clinton ..” caught on videotape
” Delay ..” see Elections, U.S., 2006 ..
” .. “real” employers don’t administer pre-employment exams ..”
See Google, Microsoft, Intel ..
Also, I do it all the time. I ask a very difficult question from the student’s field of study, and watch very carefully how she/he responds (a.k.a., “the stress interview"). Some even have to put down their pens and ask for a pencil.
Lar — would love to see you teach four classes in freshman English/history/algebra at a fifth-tier college. I think you’d be driven insane by the students, bureaucracy, and parents.
As Jon Bon Jovi recently noted: have a nice day.
C. Bigsby, at 5:25 am EST on January 24, 2007
Mr. Bigsby, That isn’t an explanation. That is a couple of vague allusions that make no sense. As I understand it, behaviors you don’t like are espoused by those who are morally “relative” and those you do, exhibit moral stasis. But, there is no way to tell that it isn’t your morals have changed, or perhaps other peoples’ morals have changed as well. For example, in the past hundred years marrying outside the race was considered immoral. Now, it is practically immoral to suggest the immorality of someone that maries outside their race. Same with homosexuality, thongs, and cohabitation. Strangely, some things have gone the other way (e.g. cocaine and what we now call marital aids.) But, there is no way to tell whether a consensus has changed or whether homosexuality, thongs, and cohabitation were moral all along, and the consensus simply figured out what was moral all along.
Yes, I guess, come to think of it Google does employ some testing. But it isn’t the kind of testing that most employers use, schools prepare kids for, or probably 99% of the country would even understand.
If you want you can screw around with people in interviews. If you are interviewing people without a track record of excellence, and you want to pay them less than a living wage, then I guess this is the way to go.
I sure hope I never have to teach a 5th grade class. Luckily, I come from a family where teaching elementary school is looked down upon, so I was discouraged from even thinking about it. But, I assure you there are many things that I don’t want to do.
Larry, at 8:05 am EST on January 24, 2007
” .. If you want you can screw around with people in interviews ..”
Sir, you are out of your mind. You’ve never had a judge ask you a hard question? A law partner? A fellow law student? A freakin’ client? Gimme a break ..
” .. I sure hope I never have to teach a 5th grade class ..”
Me, too. You appear to have difficulty, differentiating between grade and tier.
C. Bigsby, at 12:35 pm EST on January 24, 2007
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There are steps that can be taken.
1. Gradually migrate existing first-year writing and mathematics, and any remedial instruction, from the universities to the high schools.
2. Give dual credit for the non-remedial courses.
3. Require the universities to certify and prepare the instructors who must hold the same qualifications as today’s first-year writing and math instructors (some of whom are already moonlighting and retired high school teachers.)
4. Require the universities to assess and continuously improve the program.
Many states already have such programs for elite high school students. Gradually expand the programs, and secondary school performance will improve.
Stevens Amidon, Director of Writing at Indiana Purdue Fort Wayne, at 6:35 am EST on January 23, 2007