There is, it seems to me, a glaring hole in this research. I don’t question that black students at elite institutions are disproportionately immigrant. But what the study doesn’t address is whether students of _other_ races are disproportionately immigrant. My impression (only an impression, not quantified in any way) is that elite student bodies include a large number of children of immigrants—Asian, East European, former Soviet, take your pick.

Until the authors clear up the extent of the phenomenon, we don’t know if this is an issue of black culture, American culture, or something entirely different.

Dave S., Assoc Prof at Land Grant U., at 8:10 am EST on February 1, 2007

Not descended from slaves?

What’s going on? Did Guinier actually say that these “voluntary immigrants” were not descended from slaves or is she misquoted?

Read the numbers: 43.1 percent of black admits at elite colleges were from the Caribbean and 20.5 percent were from Jamaica. Could any one tell me why we should assume why this majority of immigrant blacks (63.6 per cent!) are not descended from slaves?

Wondering, at 8:51 am EST on February 1, 2007

Although I am in favor of affirmative action, this article reminds of one key problem with the policy. No matter how well a student of African descent does academically, it will always be assumed that they NEEDED affirmative action to be accepted. Does it ever occur to anyone that in this day and age these students might have been accepted regardless of affirmative action?

I’ve encountered this problem personally. When I explain to people that I was a McCormick Tribune fellow at the University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration, many seem to assume it was a race-based scholarship, instead of the merit-based fellowship it was and remains.

Meegan Bassett, at 9:52 am EST on February 1, 2007

previous literature

If this article is adequately representing the authors’ analysis, then another glaring missing piece is that it is fairly well-established in the literature that comparing immigrants to native borns is problematic, since there is a self-selection bias among immigrants — in other words, migrants, through choosing to migrate, have already distinguished themselves as being among those in the population who are the most highly driven and thus more likely to succeed...

JCO, Assoc Prof, at 11:20 am EST on February 1, 2007

I’d be interested to read about educational outcomes for the children of poor and working class black immigrants to the U.S. For instance, what kinds of outcomes might we observe among the daughters and sons of cab drivers, home health assistants, fast food workers, and other service workers? I am especially interested in learning about those who live in urban areas, together with, or in close proximity to self-identified African Americans? From the bit I’ve read, these children of immigrants begin to self-identify as African American and have educational attainment similar to their African American peers. I suppose this takes us back to an earlier comment about the importance of adding class and parents’ educational attainment to the mix as we disucss affirmative action.

CR, at 12:50 pm EST on February 1, 2007

Buit this country

The issue is not about Caribbean immigrants (African heritage or slave roots). President Johnson’s quote from above says it all. AA was founded to give African American descendants a chance to “not only start the race but have a chance to win”. This country was built on the backs of Slaves, and not African descendants from abroad. I think too many groups have benefited from AA, and the group (low social economic/urban/ African Americans), that needs AA is still running behind the pack.

JCWEST, at 2:55 pm EST on February 1, 2007

This is very interesting. I’m a Southeast Asian American, and for the Asian American community, I have observed the opposite. Most colleges have a greater representation of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean students, whose families have lived in the U.S. for many generations, than Southeast Asian American ethnic groups (Mienh, Hmong, Thai, Laotian, Cambodian). Recent Asian American populations tend to be refugees (Southeast Asians), and thus have migrated to the U.S. involuntarily. This makes the Asian American and African American situation incomparable. However on the flipside, Southeast Asian Americans have not been recognized as a group by certain Affirmative Action programs as an underserved and underrepresented population because of the homogenous lumping and assumption that they share the same socioeconomic background of Asian Americans. From what I can deduct from this — Socioeconomic and ethnic background of accepted college applicants is often times a greater indicator of equitable opportunity than just race.

Ay, at 2:55 pm EST on February 1, 2007

I am an international student of which the author speaks. I am from a small island in the Caribbean and I was afforded the opportunity to have been educated in North America. The author did not differenciate from those students that come directly from the islands and those who have immigrated to the US. I applied as an International student and paid 3 times as much as the average citizen or resident of the country. That needs to be a factor in your discussion as well. We pay alot more to be educated in your country and lot more is on the line in terms of our success when we get there. We are not afforded the same opportunities as we cannot work to defray some of our educational expense, campus jobs alot of times are reserved for citizens, and most grants or scholarships are reserved for citizens and many times we have no family support system when we are over there which is difficult during hard times. Many of us go home when we are done as the immigration process is often expensive and not worth the financial sacrifice. African Americans and Caribbeans share the same color but have a completely different outlook on the world and our place in it. Maybe thats where another discussion can begin as to why more of us are getting into IVY League universities etc. But its by no means an easy road to get there and the struggles that we have as well in the world being from small countries should not be made light. We were slaves too!!!

NNH, at 9:46 pm EST on February 1, 2007

As an Internationl Student from Nigeria, and from my own experience, i know that for the most part people like me do not necessarily benefit from AA.I believe that students like myself are accepted to top U.S colleges solely based on merit.With my parents being educated and very financially well off, they put me in an exclusive private boarding school and paid thousands of dollars so that their kid has good SAT scores and high International Baccalaureate

points.Very much also the tuition for international students for an Ivy League college averages about forty to fifty thousand dollars or more per year.

Overall,what i am trying to say is students like myself for the most part are accepted to Ivy schools because of our efforts & sacrifices and that of our parents—who are mostly Ivy educated— not at the mercy of AA.We are very well qualified students who apply and get accepted to Ivy schools and are willing to pay for an Ivy

education!!!

munn, at 1:20 pm EDT on April 30, 2007

Immigrant Factor

AA is the ill gotten child of injustice. The injustice was first perpetuated in Ivy league colleges that accepted children based on “legacy.” How come our president got into Harvard and Yale? In Oxford University, England, as well as other top insitutitions in England, there is no such admission preference.

HOw come no one makes noise about Legacy based admission? So long as all these unjust processes occur, AA will be a bone in the throat of this society. Just recently, there was an article that challenged the admission of the Frists in Princeton; their SAT scores were bellow Princeton’s requirement.

When it comes to poor people or black people the trumpets of justice seem to sound loudest.

Second, AA is the government’s way of avoiding the real issue which is spending tax dollars on improving inner city schools. By allowing 5% of blacks into Ivies, they avoid putting in money into the inner city schools. AA benefits the government more than it benefits blacks.

Ade Kanayo, at 8:50 am EDT on May 1, 2007

Something Wrong Here

As the parent of an African American child being educated in a public school in south Georgia, I have found it extremely difficult to overcome the last vestiges of slavery. I have lived with these remnants of Jim Crow all of my life and they have simply become a way of life. I seldom think about affirmative action; I just work really hard to ensure that I and my child have done all we can do to avoid relying on it. If she should somehow end up receiving the benefit of affirmative action, then Great! If she ends up with a job, or in a school because of affirmative action, then Hallelujuh! The bottom line is that if she gets there, she must be prepared to succeed. Any African American child in our part of the country who manages to simply graduate has done something exceptional; I imagine the same is true for those in the inner city. If they manage to graduate with pretty good grades and SAT scores then they will more than likely succeed—with or without affirmative action. If a child can survive the racism of the schools in South Georgia they can survive anything. It is unfortunate that the folks on the admission committees don’t understand this. It is unfortunate that they don’t see the gems that are here and have long been here in the United States. There is nothing wrong with immigrants being admitted into these schools; there is something wrong with them benefiting more so than those who are still weathering the prejudices remaining in our country schools as a result of slavery on U.S. soil.

A.R. Linder, at 10:20 am EDT on May 27, 2007