It is not surprising that this administration would be trying to tweak or spin the data on foreign students coming to the U.S. Nor should it be a shocker that the World’s students, especially Muslim are looking for better alternatives in the English Speaking World, and even in Spain. What is clear is that our hegemony in this area has slipped as has our popularity in the World. Help! We need leadership.

Vic Padelford, at 7:50 am EDT on March 22, 2007

xenophobia about foreign students

Rob writes “I’ve truly never understood the views of groups ... [who are] clearly more interested in educating foreigners than in educating Americans.”

I think he’s completely wrong.

a few replies to Rob’s opinion1. I don’t know the specific group referred to but I think most supporters of foreign students are not _more_ interested in educating foreigners. It’s not either / or. To be sure, there are relatively fixed numbers of students in a given year, but the harms Rob mentions are not real.

2. it’s uneconomic for universities to concentrate on US students — foreign students do not have access to as many sources of funding of domestic students. Rob writes, “we need to be spending our resources on educating Americans and developing our own domestic talent.” But like out-of-state students, the foreign students add to the coffers of the university.

3. competititveness red herring — Rob argues, “the decline in foreign students ...will enhance America’s economic competitiveness in the long run.” In a globalized economy, it will enhance our competitveness for our students and future “competitors” to encounter people from other places, cultures, religions, languages, etc. Also, if foreign applicants outcompete the domestic ones, maybe the domestic applicants need to do some earlier “competitiveness training”

4. it’s xenophobic — Rob’s post raises the fears of “too many” foreigners in American universities that feeds on and into a general xenophobia about the world.

Paul, University of Tennessee, at 1:42 pm EDT on March 22, 2007

Where have the foreign students gone?

Though one may indeed question the draconian visa policies instituted after 9/11, that is not the main eason for the decline, at least in my field, computer science and engineering.

It’s the money, folks. The reason foreign students, mainly Chinese and Indian, flocked to U.S. in the 1980s and the 1990s was that they could use U.S. grad school as a steppingstone to a lucrative U.S. job and a green card. Now they see that the U.S. tech industry does not offer good long-term career opportunities, and meanwhile the job markets in their home countries are booming. So they are staying home.

If you look at the Open Doors data broken down by field, you find that the overall figures mask a huge disparity. Foreign enrollment in fields like computer science,with its poor job market, has been steadily declining since before 9/11, especially if one substracts out “momentum” from previous years. Meanwhile, other fields not affected by the job market have been experiencing level or increasing enrollments. (If anyone is interested in the URLs, just e-mail me.)

I disagree with the poster who said that by admitting foreign students we’re keeping out Americans. Actually, most programs will give a bit of a break to Americans. Instead, the real issue is that the National Science Foundation actually PLANNED for graduate programs in science and engineering to be flooded with foreign students, with the express goal of holding down PhD salaries. They noted that this would make doctoral study unattractive to Americans, and boy were they right. (Again, if anyone wants citations for this, let me know.)

The article correctly states that countries like Australia have seen an increase in foreign enrollment. The government there has indeed been courting foreign students. but unfortunately, they don’t care about quality. There have been scandals in which universities have pressured faculty to give passing grades to foreign students who failed, in order not to discourage in the influx. Keep this in mind when you see figures reporting increasing enrollments in the U.S., because it too may be coming in part due to a compromise in quality.

The concept of having international students started out as a noble one, but that has degenerated to a situation which is both dishonorable and harmful.

Norm Matloff, Professor of Computer Science at UC Davis, at 2:47 pm EDT on March 22, 2007

Foreign students

Rob — you may want to consider the following: As an international student I paid full out of state tuition for several years. I pay my own insurance and bills (I do now hold a TAship that pays some of my expenses, but I have contributed all of my savings to the American economy). I came here because I wanted to learn from Americans (and I had fallen in love but that is beside the point here), but I also thought I had something to offer in return. I brought with me work experience and a pretty good education that I have been able to share with my students. I am able to offer both students and faculty a whole different cultural perspective than they would otherwise meet, and I speak six languages. America may be diverse, but it is not very international except in New York and some of the other larger cities. I have learned much about this country that I share with my family abroad when I visit them or they come here to spend time with me. My friends and family have spent time and money here and they are significantly more positive toward the US than they were before I moved. I wish more American students would study abroad as I believe the EXCHANGE of students brings an exchange of culture, ideas, and friendship. I believe the more people know about eachother’s cultures the easier it will be to work together rather than seek conflict. I believe that it is a good thing if American culture and language becomes a lingua franca for the world — it will certainly make it easier for American companies to do business abroad if the markets they are working with and selling to understand them. *America* benefits from international students — that is why it is a bad thing when students go somewhere else and learn other business models and build networks with other countries.

Kate, Graduate Student, at 9:06 pm EDT on March 22, 2007

Rob!

The reason that foreign students are admitted at the rate they are is that many of them are better educated than Americans. Most domestic applicants to American universities are coming from public schools, and thus mentally hobbled. Public education in America is crap, and it is producing people with crap for brains. A brutish statement, but true. Fix this first.

The United States still has the institutional lead in terms of higher education, but by the fingernails. Favoring domestic applicants without *FIRST* dealing with their pre-university education would water down the system even more.

“Public universities were founded to educate Americans, especially the middle class, not to look for student who are cash cows.” The solution? Reform higher education so that education, not consumer values, are made the core value.

Another claim: “If America does not benefit from their [foreigners] presence, then they should not be allowed in.” The market is not so well ordered and predictable that one can know where benefits come from. A foreign student may indeed go back to their home country, but may engage in trade that benefits the US. If nothing else, they will (hopefully) come away with an appreciation and respect of the United States. Rob, would you apply the same strictures to foreign scholars and teachers? Think hard before answering.

Joseph C, at 4:10 am EDT on March 23, 2007

Public school

Public school, bub, public school. From South Dakota no less!

“Some of my best students have had public educations.” That doesn’t prove anything. System-wide the institution is falling down and hurting nearly everyone in its path. Your great students, unless they came from the few elite public schools, probably had to spend more than a few hours having to read the books and learn in the information they should have learned in high school.

“It is clear that you likely went to an expensive private school, which means you likely came from a wealthy family.” I also own a zinc mine.*sigh*. . . damn administrator. . .

Joseph C., at 11:01 am EDT on March 23, 2007

International Education

I am a Counsellor based in Dubai. I help young adults with their applications to universities. I firmly believe that irrespective of where a student goes, international exposure impacts not only the student and his/her family but the students in his/her class and the communities as a whole.

“Study abroad’ programs are a great idea and I think we become more tolerant, understanding and better able to accept each other’s perspective when our vision is thus broadened.

Rob, education without borders is here to stay...like it or not, it has become a fact of life. With open minds we not only teach but also learn...

Intercultural exchanges through education will equip our students to face the challenges of tomorrow.

Rema Menon, Director at Counselling Point, at 9:15 am EDT on March 24, 2007

Economic Contributions of International Students in the U.S.

“Hard working Americans” also need someone to buy their services and products, Rob. In 2004-2005 international students and their dependents contributed $13.29 BILLION to the U.S. Economy. They are also footing the bill to keep the doors of Homeland Security and the overseas missions of the U.S. Department of State open with the exorbitant fees we charge internationals for the priveledge to study, work, and play in the U.S. If you don’t buy the arguement that our American students need to learn how to act, live, and perform in a global society and that by making our campuses more global we are giving American students the best education possible for adapting to the inevitable changes that will shape our global political economy — perhaps the sheer force of the international students’ positive economic impact in the U.S. will be more compelling.

Charlie, at 2:19 pm EDT on March 27, 2007

Very very sad to hear racists comments like these. Hoppefully some people understand that diversity is usefull for every and anybody, to avoid having too many robs in any culture, as much as to build acceptance and cope better with differences. I hope most people understand there are no better culture, or harder working ethnic groups, just different cultures. Rob, I don’t know where you are from, but get yourself a passeport, you’ll end up smarter at worst

nico, at 12:15 pm EDT on March 30, 2007

Sorry folks, but Rob’s neither wrong nor racist!

Looking at the previous material, I feel compelled to point out that the most damning and racist comments are those made by Ras Tsidi ("the void in science and tech is filled by international students—without them American would be thrown into the dustbin of sceince and tech—-go figure!")and Joseph C. ("Most domestic applicants...are coming from public schools, and thus mentally hobbled. Public education in America is crap, and it is producing people with crap for brains"). Perhaps Joseph C. can enlighten us as to how this applies to all American students regardless of actual performance or attainments. But people, I’ve actually been in a graduate engineering program in the last decade, and this is some of what I saw: 1) a foreign-born professor put in charge of a graduate/upper-level undergraduate OR course who could not speak in coherent sentences in the language of instruction; 2) international students given routine passes on academic dishonesty including (but not limited to) wholesale paragraph-for-paragraph plagiarism, widespread exam cheating, and waivers on both thesis and comprehensive tests; 3) use of “cherry-picking” of questions (excluding some questions from consideration) and weighting of homework projects so as to favor a female student of the TA’s ethnic group; 4) ethnically-based exclusion of non-dominant ethnic group students from group projects and participation; 5) ethnically-based harassment of students; 6) non-contribution of international students to group projects; 7) manipulation of advising and regulations so as to exclude domestic students (this last is particularly nasty and insidious); 8) abuse of domestic students reporting rule-breaking and rule infractions. Think I’m joking or that this is an isolated incident? Think again — similar incidents were reported by the Wall Street Journal in a scandal that implicated international graduate students, an advisor, and a department chair("Student Plagiarism Stirs Controversy at Ohio University,” Aug.15, 2006). This is a national scandal that reflects a state of affairs that will lead us to the bottom in academic competitiveness.The solution is to reconsider overly promiscuous international student enrollments in US academic programs.

Scrawed, at 10:01 pm EDT on April 13, 2007

I am an international student and I was admitted to a graduate program at a top institution in the US with full funding and a tuition waiver. I thus I took a spot which would have been offered to a US student otherwise.

When interviewing for the program we were told that there were 15 spots with funding (from the US government) reserved for US students and only 3 spots (with funding from the university) which COULD be offered to international students. So, they only admitted very few international students and only if they were better than the national students.

I and other graduate students like me will contribute to the excellence of research in the US. We will contribute more to it than the US students who were rejected because of us simply because we are better and that’s why we were admitted.

Rae, graduate student, at 5:05 pm EDT on May 3, 2007