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New Way to Rank Ph.D. Programs

March 30, 2007

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U.S. News & World Report today will be issuing this year's rankings of graduate departments, based in most cases entirely on a reputational survey, and various universities will promptly boast about being No. 1 in this discipline or that. But a new rankings system for Ph.D. programs also went live this week -- and it is a system in which no department can claim to be tops in anything.

The new system -- offered by PhDs.org -- takes a different approach: It provides free access to information about more than 5,000 programs at more than 400 universities. But the potential applicant has to decide how to weight the information. Are you more concerned about enrolling in a program with many minority or female students than you are in a program with low tuition? Are you more interested in the average time to finish a doctorate or the prestige of the faculty? Do you care more about the proportion of students who receive fellowships or the percentage who find a job after they earn degrees? After ranking the relative importance you place on these and other factors, the database produces a customized ranking of departments, indicating both a total ranking and how departments placed in the various criteria selected.

The new ranking system was unveiled this week without much fanfare, and several experts on graduate admissions said that they were only now learning about it. But the data sources come from information universities report to the U.S. Education Department, to the annual Survey of Earned Doctorates, and to the National Research Council. Geoff Davis, a Ph.D. in mathematics who taught at Dartmouth College before becoming a software and education consultant, created the database, with advice from a team of experts on graduate education and support from some big name entities such as the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation and the Burroughs Wellcome Fund.

Some of the limitations of the project are obvious. The NRC rankings have plenty of critics and are only updated every decade or so -- a process going on now -- meaning that they are old and their methodology is about to change. In addition, data on degree completion and job placement are only available for groups of at least five, so the information isn't as complete for smaller departments.

On the other hand -- and this is relevant given the current furor over how U.S. News may handle situations in which colleges can't provide certain information used in its rankings -- these new rankings give users the choice of how to respond when some information isn't available for a department. The user can decide to use an average figure for the field being examined, to skip that data point and to rank without it, or to simply list separately those programs that don't have complete data -- but to still report data that are available.

In an interview Thursday, Davis sounded a little bit like Margaret Spellings in describing why he wanted to create the new system. When he was looking at graduate schools, he said, he had primarily reputation to go on, but no "outcomes data" on what actually happened after graduate school. People need "realistic information about the kinds of careers that they will have," he said.

At the same time, Davis was a bit unlike the education secretary in that he insisted that it wasn't appropriate for anyone to declare that some measures should be used in evaluating programs. The whole point of his approach is that "people should go in with their own expectations of what they want to get out" of a graduate program. Factors that are important to some are irrelevant to others, he said.

"It doesn't make sense to call any department No. 1. They all have strengths and weaknesses," he said.

Davis did acknowledge that rankings can have an impact on the behavior of departments and institutions. But he said that was only a good thing, if his rankings take off. Some of the factors in his database -- time to degree or job placement -- aren't widely known. If departments start to pay more attention to these factors because of concern over how they will look, that will only help those graduate students who enroll, Davis said.

He also acknowledged that rankings -- even customized ones like his -- can only go so far at the Ph.D. level, where a graduate student's experience may hinge to a large degree on one or two professors in a given specialty. "Nobody should take these rankings, or any rankings, as a be all and end all," he said. His approach -- by avoiding any ability to be on the top -- is designed to reinforce that. "These should help people figure out which programs they need to really investigate, which programs they should visit," he said.

Joan F. Lorden, provost of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, has written extensively on the limitations of the NRC rankings, and served on an advisory committee for the new system Davis developed. Lorden said that there are all kinds of problems with past systems, which tend to rely on reputation. "Those judgments can be based on 'halo effects' or misinformation or limited information," she said.

The new approach, she said, "is a really interesting tool" and one that is "empowering to students" by letting them decide what is most important for themselves. Lorden said she likes the way this system encourages students to consider and include a variety of factors in making a choice about which graduate programs to consider. "Anything that is driven totally by one variable just isn't going to be helpful," she said.

Robert J. Morse, director of data research for U.S. News, said that some people might find the new approach useful, but he questioned its value. Given the time lag in NRC rankings, he said, some of the statistics involved are likely to be 15 years old -- something his magazine would never tolerate.

Morse also noted that there are many departments for which the new system doesn't have information on job placement and other qualities that potential students would want. "I think it's going to be disappointing to people" who think they will have more data than actually exist.

As for the criticism that alternatives are needed to the reptuation-based approach of U.S. News, Morse made no apologies for a focus on reputation. "The coin of the realm in academia is reputation and standing," he said. "So to act like that means nothing -- people are being blind to their own world."

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Comments on New Way to Rank Ph.D. Programs

  • Just a little more information
  • Posted by M. Muska on December 9, 2008 at 5:05pm EST
  • I would suspect that too much data could be overwhelming for a site and some may want to protect the "intellectually challenged" from misreading and skewing too much information and I very much appreciate how phds.org has organized everything, however, coming to the final list of schools to send my $50-$125 to I still managed to have an excel sheet filled with half of the data from phds.org and the rest a combination from U.S. News.com, collegedata.com and the school's websites.

    Ideally, it would be fantastic if phds.org had a profile system allowing users to build their own school comparisons that they could easily go back to. Even more, it would be useful if they were able to organize that data to meet their interests. For instance, I compared the programs the schools offered, the tuition remission data, the application deadline and fee, if they required the GRE, the male to female ratio, total/graduate/program enrollment, percentage of full time students, average time to complete the degree, acceptance rate and then a series of sources with their opinions on each school.

    There are a good number of sites rating colleges filled with data all organized to how they think is the most useful way to compare schools. It would be nice to be the judge of that.

    The major data that I wished phds.org had was updated application fee information, their deadlines, their acceptance rate (why is this such hard data to come across? I had to contact each university for their graduate program acceptance rates and half of them didn't know.), total enrollment and graduate enrollment.

    For instance, Cornell has almost 20,000 students, 97 of which were enrolled in the English MA degree programs. Where as the University of Washington has over 40,000 students 280 of which were enrolled in the English MA degree program. Therefore, approximately .5% of Cornell's student body is in that program and .7% of UW's student body. This is a very generalized way to compare data but it would almost appear as though the difficulty of being accepted into Cornell's MA in English program is only slightly more selective than the University of Washington's. I know my numbers are far too general and most likely inaccurate/outdated, but that kind of information would be gold.

  • Not a new ranking system
  • Posted by Danny on March 30, 2007 at 7:50am EDT
  • The ranking system at phds.org has been around for at least four or five years. In fact, looking at the "About PhDs.org" page, it looks as if the rankings have been there since 1998. The design has been changed and there's now a way to deal with missing data, but otherwise it's the same as it's always been.

    I'm not sure why this is being treated as new. Perhaps the funding from the Sloan Foundation has brought new publicity? I don't remember Sloan being mentioned in previous visits to the site.

  • Sociology
  • Posted by Craig , Dr on March 30, 2007 at 9:20am EDT
  • The idea of allowing applicants to vary weights is good, but the database here seems problematic. It would help if the site indicated the year for which data had been collected. It seems both out of date generally and variably so - including for indicators like tuition that are readily available.

  • New ranking system
  • Posted by Geoff Davis on March 30, 2007 at 10:10am EDT
  • Danny,

    Yes, there was an earlier and much simpler set of rankings up on phds.org that used only data from the National Research Council.

    The new rankings contain a huge amount of new data from the NSF's Survey of Earned Doctorates (SED) and from IPEDS, and there are several additional data sources that will be included going forward. The SED material is particularly interesting - it's the source of all the outcome data referred to in the article above, and as far as I know, many of the outcome measures have never been seen before.

    Hope this helps

    Geoff

  • Age of data
  • Posted by Geoff Davis on March 30, 2007 at 12:15pm EDT
  • Craig,

    Yes, the data are of varying vintages due to lags in the release of the Survey of Earned Doctorates, IPEDS, and the NRC data. The goal of the project was to use existing data sources rather than to generate new data, so some delays are inevitable.

    The years and sources of the data are all listed on the page with the rankings. Also, if you have javascript enabled and move your mouse over any of the table headings on the rankings, you will see detailed information about the source and age of each of the columns of data.

    Geoff

  • New data
  • Posted by Danny on March 30, 2007 at 12:15pm EDT
  • Thanks for the clarification, Geoff. I should have looked more clearly at the data sources used for the rankings.

    I want to compliment you on the work you've done on phds.org. I've used it occasionally over the past few years and I'm pleased to see that it's moving forward.

  • What Idiot Named the Academic Fields?
  • Posted by Jim , Professor on April 1, 2007 at 6:15am EDT
  • "Communications" is NOT a "professional field" at most universities these days. Like political science, it has both humanities and social science faculty. Almost no one with a PHD in the field uses the "s" at the end, either.

  • Show Me Da Data!
  • Posted by RWH on April 1, 2007 at 1:45pm EDT
  • Sometimes I think I know waaay too much about American colleges and universities. After all, one of my hobbies is visiting campuses ... and I think I am well over 400 now. When I’m on the road for whatever reason, I love to have lunch in the student union of a local college, especially with any students who will allow me join them. For example, just a few weeks ago I hit the University of Alabama-Birmingham, the University of Montevallo, Tuskegee University, Auburn University, and Lagrange College all in one week.

    I can’t say I’m greatly enthused about ranking undergraduate institutions, but there are probably a few remarkably uninformed individuals out there – essentially prospective college students and their parents – who may benefit, however slightly, from such a list. I think, however, that’s about it.

    But ranking graduate programs is another matter altogether. I would go so far as to say that any undergraduate student contemplating graduate school who could not make a thoughtful decision in the complete absence of such a list is ... let’s see, words that come to mind are ignorant, stupid, brain-dead ... oh, I’ll be polite, “intellectually challenged” is my choice of words.

    Geoff Davis, who created the database and, I assume, wrote the algorithm for PhDs.org’s weighted-sum personalized ranking mechanism – and how difficult could that have been – said, “It doesn’t make sense to call any department No. 1. They all have strengths and weaknesses.” What he meant, of course, is that these ranking systems make no sense whatever. That does not mean, however, that a collection of well informed individuals could not sit together and say, “Okay, these are the ‘top’ graduate programs in computer science in the country ... on the other hand, if you’re interested in computer hardware, these should be of interest to you ... and if you’re interested in cryptography and computer security, think about these ... and if you’d like to study computer operating systems ...” well, you get the point. Every prospective graduate student would want to be the proverbial fly on the wall where that discussion was taking place ... but a list ranking Computer Science Departments? Cut me some slack! By the way the number of “best” schools put together by a collection of Biologists may turn out to be three times the number of “best” schools listed by Astronomers.

    Frankly if I were sitting at a keyboard with the PhDs.org algorithm in front of me, I would input my weights – and wouldn’t those be quasi-meaningful, completely subjective guesses - and hit “Enter.” Having seen the list of schools that is apparently right for me, I would chuckle, return to the data base, and ask, “Now, given MY objective function – one that contains no fewer than a dozen variables that are important to me and are not included in Professor Davis’ database - what should I do?”

    I hope it has come across that, in my opinion, when a thoughtful individual attempts to make an optimal decision, the data that are used to construct lists are far more interesting to the decision-maker than the lists themselves.

    Trouble with the world today is that there are waaaay too many intellectually challenged, “educated” individuals abusing information.

  • Taxonomy
  • Posted by Geoff Davis on April 2, 2007 at 1:05pm EDT
  • Jim,

    The portion of the taxonomy that includes "Communication(s)" comes from the Survey of Earned Doctorates (see p. 7 of http://www.norc.org/NR/rdonlyres/285BAF6B-923D-4232-B33A-E1BD7D323ACF/0/sed_quex_0405.pdf ). So the "idiots" in question would be the National Science Foundation.

    They have recently revised their taxonomy, and I have updated the site accordingly.

    Sincerely,

    Geoff Davis
    phds.org

  • Showing RWH the data
  • Posted by Geoff Davis on April 2, 2007 at 1:05pm EDT
  • RWH,

    I agree completely that the data are much more interesting than the rankings. Most of the effort of the new site went into (1) aggregating the data from all the different sources (they use different taxonomies, different encodings for institutions, different formats, etc), and (2) presenting the data in a useful format. The rankings are perhaps better thought of as a means of searching through the data.

    If you peruse the site, you will find detailed, 7-page profiles of each of the departments listed. You can compare departmental data side by side, too.

    I'm exploring some ideas for making more qualitative information available and would be interested to hear the components of your objective function.

    Geoff