An unbelievable mess

More than one million law-abiding persons, both in the U.S. and abroad, have been waiting for up to 20 years to be admitted legally to the U.S.

Years of obvious border-control neglect by the Bush/Clinton axis have left behind a paperwork nightmare that will require decades to fix.

Any potential future costs for the proposed Senate bill have not even been estimated — what happened to pay-as-you-go?

Democrat pollster Frank Luntz indicated illegal, undocumented immigration has become the new third-rail of politics. What a perceptive fellow.

L.L., at 7:50 am EDT on May 21, 2007

Immigration reform

Is there anyone not covered by this so-called immigration “reform"? I know Ms. Gonzales is not responsible for her parent’s breaking the law, but is the possibility of returning to Puerto Rico that daunting? It is one of the richest (if not the wealthiest countries in Central America) and no doubt her skills could be put to good use. She would also be closer to her immediate family.

It is not lost on many of us that the same gonvernment that is responsible for this horrendous mess is now going to try and “fix” the problem. I’ll retire to Bedlam.

dg, at 10:20 am EDT on May 21, 2007

Documentation for the Undocumented

This story mentions the “undocumented student” five times but not once does it say that they are ILLEGAL!! Why are my tax dollars continually funding these illegal students and children of illegal aliens to get a free or subsidized education? My wife and I work very hard to ensure our children’s future, yet, we are being penalized because we make too much money to receive any kind of benefit for our children’s college education. I wonder if our law makers ever had to worry about choosing to either pay for their own kid’s college education or a mortgage payment. Or how about choosing to spend an increasing amount of property tax but not be eligible for a break on your kid’s college tuition? This is a broken system and our elected politicians are not in touch with the people. Vote America!! Call your representatives….for a change!!

John Lane, Inst App. Engr, at 10:45 am EDT on May 21, 2007

These students lack residency rights because they are in the country illegally.

Actions have consequences.

kh, at 12:00 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

“Off the books"?

Regarding Ms. Gonzales (who is from Costa Rica, dg, not a U.S. citizen from Puerto Rico), Rob questions whether her parents worked “off the books” and didn’t pay taxes to support state universities. Just two points to note: 1) This article provides a link leading to Ms. Gonzales’ May 16 testimony before a House subcommittee. She noted that her father worked as a courier for the office of Missouri’s governor and received public recognition from the governor. It’s likely that all relevant taxes were deducted from his salary. 2) Yes, many illegal aliens do work “off the books” and do not pay federal income tax. However, studies show that most of these folks—who pay state and local sales taxes every day—are either too proud or too fearful to claim Social Security, welfare, or medical benefits. Thus, they often contribute more to our government coffers than they withdraw. There may be reasons to question the DREAM Act, but they don’t include aliens’ contributions to our taxing systems.

jw, at 12:55 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

Undocumented College Students

We cannot deny students the opportunity to contribute to our society by holding them accountable to actions that were not their own when they were children, it is both short sighted and xenophobic. Our society needs more college graduates, not less. The majority of undocumented students who are competitively eligible for college not only are a future asset to our society, but exhibit stronger qualities of patriotic citizenship than many American citizens. There really is no argument against the frustrations of an American family not being able to afford college for their own children, much less paying for “illegal” students to go to college. Indeed, our government and education leaders have dropped the ball completely on financing a college education for families, but once you acknowledge that deporting thousands of undocumented students is never going to happen, you can either support broad investment in them as future college graduates and participatory citizens or expect to watch more of the same (swelling lower class, more taxpayer dollars invested in incarceration facilities and social services).

Brian Aguilar, TRIO program, at 1:55 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

Hooo Boy!

The nativists are certainly restless around here!

Joseph Duemer, Professor at Clarkson University, at 2:55 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

clarification for Rob

Rob, Just a few points of clarification. In most states, everyone that buys stuff in a state with a sales tax is paying a tax. So, even someone with no legal status, and no pretense to paying income taxes collected by employers is paying some tax or other.

Secondly, many “illegal” people have given erroneous social security numbers to employers, who have, in turn, withheld state and federal income taxes. The IRS has been slow in catching up with this, but it is hard to see who the victim of such a “fraud” is.

Third, states, for better or worse, have different policy goals than the federal government. Many states actually like the fact that there are undocumented immigrants. In some cases it is for altruistic reasons. In other cases, it is because legislatures probably want a source of cheap labor and second-class citizens that are reluctant to enforce their rights in court. However, as a trade-off for this, they provide them with some services.

Fourth, as a legal (rather than policy) matter, the Supreme Court has held, in Plyer v. Doe, that undocumented children have a right to attend whatever schools have been created.

While I understand your policy views, I think it is sort of strange to demand “studies” from people when your own analysis is based on talks with unnamed “cashiers” or “landlords.”

Larry, at 4:10 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

Thank you, 1st Amendment!

Attempts by certain political groups to physically prevent their opponents from peacefully exercising their constitution right to free speech on campuses have been well-documented.

Kudos to those here today who refused to be intimidated by a bunch of ideological thugs and their academic enablers.

And ditto to IHE for its ad-supported bandwidth. Market economies work — just ask the Chinese Communist Party and the People’s Liberation Army!

L.L., at 6:25 pm EDT on May 21, 2007

Reply to Larry

Larry,

If an illegal immigrant is giving out erroneous social security numbers, then the victim is the person whose number has been stolen. Would you want an illegal immigrant giving YOUR social security number as their own? That’s a perfect way to be a victim of identity theft, or to have your credit report mucked up. I find it astonishing that you would think something like this is victimless.

Also, just because illegals pay sales tax does not change the issue. They still pay less tax when they work off the books than those who work legally. The point is one of fairness — it is wholly unfair for a segment of the population to be able to dodge paying taxes that everyone else has to pay, especially when that segment starts using the services which those taxes support.

Rob, at 3:50 am EDT on May 22, 2007

Perhaps not taxes — but rule of law, fairness, economics

This one study —

http://www.newsobserver.com/724/story/384673.html

from this —

http://www.google.com/search?as_q...arch=&as_rights=&safe=images

Lar — stipulating that you are a lawyer. Not going to consume valuable ad-supported bandwidth, debating the definition of “rule of law.” It is probably in here, somewhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=e...ule+of+law%22&btnG=Google+Search

Just going to ask GWB and Teddy Kennedy if I can get the similar deal as the illegal immigrants and not pay taxes for higher education for the next 25 years.

Wouldn’t that be fair, for the childless? If not — why? Let’s study and debate that issue for 25 years, while those taxes are held in escrow, with interest accrued going to legal poor folks. Thanks.

L.L., at 8:40 am EDT on May 22, 2007

Au contraire

” .. Just wont to educate people that there are not only “illegal immigrants” out there, because nobody else will do it ..”

Au contraire, madam.

My old boss, a great human being, told me how his father, a European seaman, illegally jumped ship in Boston in the early 1900s.

Then his father traveled 1,000 miles to his uncle’s house — and patiently waited for more than 10 years to legalize his status.

That, in a time when if you didn’t follow the rules, the authorities really DID throw you in jail! Without the ACLU to help!

My boss grew up in the late President Ford’s neighborhood, worked his way through college, became a legal administrator, served in the U.S. military during wartime, and still calls the U.S. “the greatest country in the world.” Old-fashioned — and heart-felt.

That is: he doesn’t wave another country’s flag in the U.S., doesn’t loudly demand public services as some kind of entitlement, and takes care of his family responsibilities.

Like many of his peers, my old boss has a hard time understanding how this got to be such a huge, overwhelming mess. So do I.

Russ, at 4:35 am EDT on May 23, 2007

Whoa

” .. We don’t want you here, Ms. Student Body President! Get lost, Mr. 5 on all his AP exams! Know your place, which is under me” ..”

Reported:

* Skilled tradespeople legally in the U.S. — Caucasian, African-American AND Latino-American — bitterly complain about having their wages under-cut by illegal aliens.

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/05/immigration-speech-tonight.html

* A large percentage — perhaps up to 50% — of illegal aliens in the U.S. are illiterate in their NATIVE language.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/7467722.html

* From Mr. Bush’s files: Nearly 10% of illegal aliens in the U.S. are convicted felons in their native country.

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/press_release_0938.shtm

The ship’s on fire. Everyone is trying to cope. It is rumored that God didn’t given anyone in this matter, an exclusive license on “the truth.”

More thinking might lead to a “softer landing.”

Buzz, at 8:40 am EDT on May 23, 2007

I am sick of all these illegals!

Well, I came here legally as a high school student, on a scholarship and graduated 1st in my 200-something graduating class. I also got scholarships (all merit) to go to college. My high school education and my college education was worth $160,000 + in scholarships. Obviously, I graduated summa cum laude with a bunch of degrees and so on and so on.... And after an extreme struggle — because I am a foreign student finally, found a nice job at a nice company and this is where the fairy tale ends. Actually, it was never one! I didn’t come with my parents, they couldn’t help with my education or any expenses (differences in standards you know), I couldn’t have a job outside for internships (with INS authorization) and on campus jobs. I paid my federal, state, Medicare, and social security taxes (which I will never be eligible to use if I don’t get a Green Card). I couldn’t have an illegal job and use my social security number to help myself (because I am LEGAL and INS has to monitor me constantly — every move I make). I couldn’t get in-state tuition, although I had graduated from an in-state high school because I am LEGAL. I did everything by the book for 6 years, varsity sports, community service (probably have more community hours than all illegals put together). And in the end I get a slap in the face, for playing by the rules. Spare me all the compassion to the “poor undocumented” who had their whole family here to help them and give them both moral and financial support and who got their education for free. How about people like me, when is our turn to get green cards???? The way I look at this — never. There are no visas for skilled immigrants left so even if my company bends over backwards they can’t do anything. In the end there is no visas and no green cards for the people who played by the rules but illegals should get everything handed to them on a silver platter, because they snicked across the border. I didn’t pay taxes and work my ass off for years, to support these milkers. I paid taxes and supported the community that I lived in — the legal Americans that is it.

legalisacrime, at 8:40 pm EDT on May 24, 2007