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Accidentally Into the Loan Wars

July 17, 2007

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As controversy has swirled around the student loan programs in recent months, there has been much debate -- and often confusion -- about what colleges must do to ensure that students and their families are getting the fairest and best possible deal. A wide range of proposals -- from the Education Department, Congress, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, and the country's leading financial aid group -- have all aimed to define the obligations of campus financial aid officials to offer sound, dispassionate advice to prospective borrowers, and to make sure that students have access to the lender of their choice, as federal law requires.

Amid that cacophony of competing and sometimes conflicting guidance, the University of North Carolina system offered its own regulations in late May, with the goals of providing "the best possible loan terms and choices for students" and giving financial aid administrators at its 16 campuses the clearest possible advice about about "what's legal and what's ethical," says Kimrie Rhinehardt, the system's vice president for federal relations.

In many ways -- barring campus aid officials from accepting travel reimbursement or gifts other than "nominal" advertising items from lenders, requiring colleges to disclose significantly more information to students about private loan terms, for instance -- the North Carolina rules closely mirror other proposed restrictions on financial aid officials. But the UNC proposal is distinctive in one major way -- and that difference has entangled the plan in the longstanding brawl between the federal government's competing direct and guaranteed loan programs.

Like several of the proposals being discussed in Washington, the North Carolina regulations require each institution in the 16-campus system to have at least three lenders on its "campus-based lender list" (the system eschews the commonly used tag of "preferred lender list," Rhinehardt says, because " 'preferred' just sounds like we're giving preference to someone, and that's not right").

But unlike a similar proposal put forward by the Education Department in proposed regulations last month, the UNC rules would impose the three-lender requirement not just on colleges that participate in the federal guaranteed loan program, but on those that provide loans through the direct loan program, in which the federal government is the only lender.

"Campuses must have no fewer than three lenders on a lender list," the UNC policy states. "Campuses and university associated entities shall not enter into any exclusive agreement with a student lender through the Federal Family Educational Loan Program, the William D. Ford Direct Lending Program, or for a private educational loan expressly for postsecondary educational expenses. Campuses with an existing exclusive agreement with the federal government shall work with the Department of Education to amend the agreement to permit participation in both the William D. Ford Direct Lending Program and Federal Family Education Loan Program."

In other words, the nearly half of North Carolina public universities that have participated exclusively in the direct loan program until now will, going forward, have to offer students loans through at least two lenders in the guaranteed loan program, too. (The campuses affected are Elizabeth City State; Fayetteville State; North Carolina A&T State, and North Carolina Central Universities; North Carolina School of the Arts; the Universities of North Carolina at Asheville and Wilmington; and Western Carolina University.) Rhinehardt says that the policy change is designed to ensure that students at all UNC campuses have multiple options for their loans. She recounted that the system's president, Erskine Bowles, had run into a parent whose child was a student at a college in direct lending. The parent wanted his or her child to take advantage of appealing loan terms offered by the state's nonprofit lender, "but the institution said, 'No, we won't process that loan,' " Rhinehardt says.

"For President Bowles," she says, "it just didn't make sense that the student would only have one choice, especially because the school chose that option, not because the student chose that option."

Advocates of the direct loan program, who have complained for years that Congressional Republicans and the Bush administration have unfairly tilted the playing field toward the lender-based guaranteed program, see the North Carolina plan as the latest in a line of efforts to further impair the direct loan program, which has seen its share of federal loan volume dwindle to about 20 percent. They find irony in the fact that a major university system is responding to a scandal set entirely in the lender-based program by taking steps that will almost certainly hurt its competitor.

"Requiring choice makes sense in the [guaranteed loan] program where there are documented problems of abuse," says Thomas Butts, a former U.S. deputy assistant education secretary for student assistance and a longtime supporter of the direct loan program. "But this comes across as a way to try to force the direct loan schools into FFEL. The effect of what they're doing is just that."

Butts and other veterans of the national conflict over the two loan programs are admittedly seeing the North Carolina through the prism of lender-led efforts to damage the direct loan program. They note that loan company officials -- who clearly favor the guaranteed loan program over direct lending -- had taken the same stance North Carolina is when they argued (unsuccessfully) during Education Department negotiations this winter that the three-lender requirement for preferred lender lists should apply to the direct loan program, too.

And given that federal rules allow guaranteed loan providers to cut their interest rates and fees in ways that direct loan colleges cannot, the North Carolina policy almost ensures that guaranteed loans will seem more appealing to borrowers looking at the sort of oversimplified table (showing basic rates and fees) that are likely to confront students and parents looking at a preferred lender list, says Eileen O'Leary, assistant vice president for finance and director of student aid and finance at Stonehill College, in Massachusetts. That's even though direct lending offers borrowers and their families many benefits -- such as income contingent repayment, the certainty that their loans won't be sold, etc. -- that will help them in the long term, O'Leary says.

"From the standpoint of 20,000 feet, I can see how [UNC officials] might think they have done a good thing," says O'Leary, past president of the National Direct Student Loan Coalition. "But this ignores campus decisions about what's best for their own students, and in the long run this may not be good for North Carolina students." She and others also note the close ties between the University of North Carolina and the North Carolina State Education Assistance Authority, which guarantees loans provided by the nonprofit College Foundation of North Carolina.

Rhinehardt rejects any assertion that Bowles or other North Carolina officials are aiming to harm direct lending; Bowles, after all, was chief of staff to President Clinton, who pushed the create the program in his first term. "President Bowles has no opinion on the quality of any of these products -- he personally has not researched them, and there was no discussion of what this might do to lenders down in Charlotte," home to several leading banks. "In no way does the University of North Carolina want to discourage any campus from participating in the direct loan program. This is not about FFEL vs. direct loans; it's about students and parents getting to choose what loan they want." (The UNC policy does not in any way require colleges that participate in the guaranteed loan program to offer direct loans, although "nothing in this code prevents an FFEL school from pursuing the opportunity to offer direct loans," Rhinehardt says.)

Officials at UNC institutions that participate in the direct loan program say they believe that the system's proposal is well-intentioned and does not mean to do harm to direct lending. But that doesn't mean they aren't fearful that it will.

"In no way do I think that this is intended to undermine the program, but I certainly think there could be some unintended consequences," says one UNC campus official, who asked not to be identified to avoid appearing to criticize system officials.

Two campus officials said they would almost undoubtedly need to hire more staff members to help them maneuver through the processes of an entirely new loan program, and one suggested that the system wait to put the new rules in place until it becomes clearer "which way the wind's blowing in Washington.... Some of the legislation going forward could end some of the borrower benefits that [President Bowles] thinks FFEL lenders are providing that we can't."

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Comments on Accidentally Into the Loan Wars

  • Recon?
  • Posted by CraigieH on July 17, 2007 at 7:05am EDT
  • That's like telling FFELP schools they must supply reconciliation documentation to DoEd and its CPA firms and contractors. Or that they must have the available cash to front a capital contribution. FFELP, FDSLP and Perkins are distinct programs.

  • Posted by Jules on July 17, 2007 at 8:35am EDT
  • Does this mean the FFEL schools will have to process Direct Loans, so students could have that as option as well? If a parent wanted a PLUS loan through DL would they be allowed to do so at a FFEl school?

  • Apples and kumquats
  • Posted by DS on July 17, 2007 at 8:55am EDT
  • The FFELP industry will use every possible means - no matter how creative - to hammer every possible nail into Direct Lending's coffin. To make believe that this whole lender inducement/borrower choice issue is anything other than a FFELP/private loan issue is absurd.

    I know FFELP loyalists who are seriously considering a switch to Direct Lending (or would if Congress hadn't taken FFELP's lobbying money and responded by forcing inferior terms on the DL program). And the reason is because they fear the sub-prime lenders and direct to consumer marketing that have already started to creep into FFELP.

    If Congress seriously wants to clean this up, they should make all Stafford loans carry the exact same interest rate, fees, repayment terms, etc. No more Crazy Eddie "we'll beat any deal" lenders. Let's stop pretending that a Federally guaranteed program is or should be market-driven and get back to real regulation.

  • Posted by Paul on July 17, 2007 at 10:00am EDT
  • This is great news. Schools participating in the Direct Lending program are depriving their students of choice. Monopolies do not always provide the best price nor the best service. Look to the energy, telephone, and cable companies to see this. Give the students the rights to choose the best fit for them, even in a Direct Lending school.

  • What's good for the Goose...
  • Posted by Mark on July 17, 2007 at 10:00am EDT
  • DS should get the facts straight. The Direct Loan Program still enjoys a 60bp advantage in PLUS loans because of a drafting error in the Higher Education Reconciliation Act of 2005 that places the maximum interest rate for FDLP PLUS loans at 7.9% and the maximum interest rate for FFELP PLUS loans at 8.5%. So, this "inducement/borrower choice issue" does indeed involve the Direct Loan Program and the only thing absurd is that Democratic legislators refused to address the competitive dispairity between he programs that the error created. You can bet they would have been all over it if the advantage was tilted toward the FFEL Program.

  • Federal financial aid
  • Posted by Phil on July 17, 2007 at 10:05am EDT
  • The prior comment really hit the nail on the head. Let's all remember that we're talking about a federal financial aid program here. This is not a product with the primary goal of producing profits for multi-billion dollar corporations. These federal loans should be identical regardless of the processing method (DL vs FFELP). The market incentives provided to borrowers only exist due to subsidies funded through our tax dollars. The private alternative loan market (not funded by federal taxes) should be the vehicle for market forces and creativity. The federal aid program should be about providing access to students and not about lining the pockets of corporations.

  • Now your world may rock a bit
  • Posted by Play Ball on July 17, 2007 at 10:10am EDT
  • So if DL world has to rock and abide by the same rules, 3 lenders, now it isn't fair? Get into our world now. We've been accused of leading students down a road of corruption by trying to give them some of the best choices of lenders while DL gives them no options and FFEL is the bad guys once again. (Of course not speaking of the five or six bad fish in the sea of financial aid professionals) Kudo's to the President of UNC for her stance from an unbiased position. I am sure she doesn't have much experience with either side so therefore she is making a decision based on the American way of choice. Who cares if DL is also an option. That is also a good choice for those who choose it. But why limit someone from only being able to choose it. If it is so great, let it stand on a list next to other lenders and let the students choose. I have a feeling you are worried they will all make an intelligent decision. If it is so great, and as one person puts it, the best option for students and least confusing, lets stop thinking they are incapable of figuring it out.

  • Remain calm
  • Posted by Buzz on July 17, 2007 at 10:10am EDT
  • I've met President Bowles and he is a dedicated public servant who wants to optimize every student's experience.

    In this, no one is "forced" to select an independent, non-profit DL provider.

    But given all the dust that Andy Cuomo has kicked up -- it is prudent and reasonable to give students and their families, a choice of providers. Let them, make the final decision.

    That may repugnant to the college "nanny-state" crew, giving the public choices. Well -- get used to it.

  • Makes Sense to Me!
  • Posted by Trish on July 17, 2007 at 10:15am EDT
  • This makes perfect sense to me. Students attending direct lending schools should be able to select a FFELP lender that offers better terms and conditions. Choice is choice. You can't have it both ways. This is a logical outcome of the current dialogue about choice for students.

  • Posted by GJD on July 17, 2007 at 1:35pm EDT
  • Why doesn't the Dept of Ed just create a lender ID for itself in the FFELP program? Students could then choose them as a borrower, and schools would process the apps the same as other lenders. If DL really is better for the borrower, then their share of the market will grow.

  • Dept of Ed as a lender
  • Posted by GJD on July 17, 2007 at 1:50pm EDT
  • They can set up a system similar to state agencies that process loans ... NYHESC, VSAC, NHHEAF. If states can do it why can't the federal government?

  • Fairness
  • Posted by Blind Man on July 17, 2007 at 2:20pm EDT
  • Discrepancies in law that allow an eneven playing field whether in DL or FFELP, DS has it right that regulators should fix the problem.

    Technically, if you were a school already approved for FFELP, then signed a DL participation agreement, your school could choose to participate in both. Although why someone would want that administrative nightmare eludes me.

    Will the president of the NC schools commit to more staff in the financial aid office to handle the additional processing and increased counseling required? What about the additional technical requirements?

  • UNC campuses have unlimited lender choice
  • Posted by Former Tarheel on July 17, 2007 at 2:55pm EDT
  • Requiring DL campuses to join the FFEL program does not limit such campuses to only three lenders. Once in FFEL, they must accept all comers. It doesn't matter if lenders have an "electronic agreement" with the campus or if lenders disburse by paper check. It doesn't matter if students choose lenders who sell their loans and fail to honor verbal commitments.

    The added cost of providing students with choice will be passed on to all students. When polled, 85 percent of our students voted for a single source of loans that is efficient and easy for staff to explain. Noteworthy is that fewer than four percent of FFEL borrowers take advantage of special benefits.

  • Isn't this a free country?
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 17, 2007 at 2:55pm EDT
  • Perhaps we could all step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and take a look at the bigger picture. Americans need money to go to college. Where is all that money going to come from? Some would suggest that all of it should come from the US Treasury, bypassing the profit-driven banks. Why let privately owned lenders and corporations make a profit at the expense of college students? That would be just awful; companies making a profit off of the “poor” college students. Okay, let’s step back a little further.

    Where do we all live? The United States of America. With regards to our economic system, this is primarily a capitalist society. Here’s the definition of capitalism:

    cap-i-tal-ism: n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

    So the fact is, we live in a capitalist, free market society. Fortunately, there is some governmental oversight to ensure that these private or corporately owned entities don’t become monopolies, perhaps limiting then the choice of products, or perhaps controlling the price of products. I guess the question is, do you support big government to provide loans, or do you support smaller government and a free market system? Can the government offer a better program than the private sector and do it with less cost to the taxpayer? That’s the real question here.

    Who is telling the truth about what the real program costs are? This link has several resources including the GAO studies. This compilation was put forth by “America’s Student Loan Providers,” a FFELP group.

    www.studentloanfacts.org/resources/

    Alternately, take a look at the National Direct Student Loan Coalition pages and their studies. Then, decide for yourself just who is telling the truth.

    www.altrue.net/site/ndslc/section.php?id=4662

    There’s been much agreement that having two programs is good for competition. Within the FFELP there is also competition among different lenders, which is also good. Again, this is one of the benefits of capitalism. And because of this, college students are saving money. Borrowers in FFELP will pay less for their $10,000 loan than borrowers in the FDLP when you consider borrower benefits or repayment incentives. Even the “highest cost” lender in FFELP offers some kind of discount which is still better than the discounts in the FDLP. So, college students are surely not being harmed by FFELP. Maybe in the worse case scenario, they’ll pay just as much as an FDLP borrower, but never more than what the government calls for.

    Competition is good. Choice is good. So, why would a college choose to force borrowers into the FDLP? Under FDLP, there is no choice and no competition within that program creating discounts on the loans. I hope more DL schools follow the lead of the NC system which realizes that choice is important.

    Backing up a bit, we looked at the definition of capitalism. Now, let’s see what the dictionary says about another form of government.

    com-mu-nism: n. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

    Now, I’m not suggesting that the Direct loan program mirrors communist ideals (maybe it’s more socialist than communist), but it surely doesn’t support capitalist ideals. Nor does it support free market competition, or even liberty. Do you really want more college students to have less choice, and participate in a government controlled program where price and process are determined by a single entity? Or do you truly espouse the capitalist economic ideals which make this country great?

    Any way you want to look at it, competition is good. Monopoly is bad. Choice is good, and… well, not having choice is bad. Unless of course you are against capitalism in general, and favor a form of government where there is a controlled economy with a single authoritarian program where all people get the same goods as determined by the government (see definition above for communism).

  • RE: Fairness
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 17, 2007 at 2:55pm EDT
  • Blind Man: Maybe it is more administration on the schools part to manage two programs, but maybe they are okay with that simply because it is the right thing to do. Allow choice. Are schools primarily in the DL because it costs their administration less? (And how's that DL reconciliation process going?) Is it always best to do whatever is cheapest? Easiest? Sometimes, doing the right thing costs a little more.

  • Joe Banker
  • Posted by Blind Man on July 17, 2007 at 5:15pm EDT
  • I don't disagree. My point was that irrespective of whether it is the right thing to do, if the administration does not back it up with resources, like many other unfunded mandates dumped on the FAO, it will cause headaches for the staff. People who have never worked in an FA Office won't understand or appreciate the added burden which will manifest itself in ways nobody will want, but that's not your problem right!

  • Keep the scandals coming!
  • Posted by Zach Marks , Blogger at Campus Progress on July 17, 2007 at 5:40pm EDT
  • This seems to be the latest of a series of moves by the Bush administration and some Republicans in Congress to weaken the direct loan program. (I’ve written before on my blog at Campus Progress why the direct loan program is a sure way to make college more affordable while simplifying the financial aid process and saving taxpayers money.) Seems odd that UNC’s answer to the financial aid scandals which arose because of the subsidized-lender program (a euphemism for corporate welfare) is to keep that program – and the lenders who benefit from it – in business.

  • Only poll that really matters ..
  • Posted by Buzz , A Real Tar Heel at Go 'Heels on July 17, 2007 at 7:00pm EDT
  • " .. When polled, 85 percent of our students voted for a single source of loans that is efficient and easy for staff to explain .."

    Where did this come from? Thin air?

    When did "choice" become a dirty word? Eastern Michigan U. just fired three top officials because the officials "chose" NOT to give adults information paid for by the public.

    The only "poll" that matters is the final one made by adults in a free society. All the others just fund consultants and defend those unwilling to let adults have choices.

  • Joe Banker the capitalist? Not really...
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 17, 2007 at 9:55pm EDT
  • You have free choice to sell your wares to whoever wants to purchase them and let the consumer decide. But if you truly believed your arguement against the "communism bordering on socialism" bit you posted then I would think a capitalist would rail at the idea of governmental interference at all. That is unless you don't consider special allowances, guarantees, fees structures etc... to interfere in your business-- oh wait: that is how your business in this grand capitalist ideal operates and how you make your profit.
    As for the 85% wanted 1 lender/1 payment I would be happy to give my students the same poll and report the results to the group. I could definitely top 85% and most likely hit 100%. An informed borrower is a FFEL lenders worst nightmare. Once you explain how you are willing to share a penny of the profits with a fancy incentive you rake from the taxpayers with your quasi-socialist business model you pretend is a free market, they don't seem to want to shop in your aisle. I look forward to the scathing reply.
    And does no one think it odd that President Bowles "has no opinion on the quality of any of these products — he personally has not researched them?" Huh?

  • RE: Joe Banker the capitalist? Not really...
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 18, 2007 at 3:25am EDT
  • Anne,

    I wouldn't say that I am for "no government," just not unnecessary government. FFELP is a Public/Private partnership... not entirely private, of course. Of course, there was a time when the feds did loans on their own entirely. The bank funded student loan programs came about as a result of the feds realizing that they have other things to do with funds from the US Treasury. The government would rather serve as the collateral on the loans (the repayment guarantee) than to have to pony up 85 billion a year from the treasury. The government simply can’t afford to go it alone without the banking industry. And I'm not suggesting that capitalism would work without any government assistance.

    The profit margins of banks is pretty nominal for student loans compared to what a bank could make doing something else with that capital, and the profits are getting smaller yet again under the Bush administration. So, this isn't a Bush plan to eliminate Direct Lending, he’s harming all kinds of programs, not just DL or FFELP. The Bush budget and Congressional proposals would cut lender subsidy about 0.5%. So, Bush is hardly a FFELP proponent. He just sees for the short term, here’s how he can come up with 12 Billion for other programs. He surely wasn’t going to get it from DL revenue. Keep in mind that Direct loans hasn't profited a dime since its' inception. There is only a cost to taxpayers. The only question is just how much cost. That is debatable. If DL was truly a profit center for taxpayers, then as a taxpayer myself, I'd be all for it! Oh, but then we taxpayers would be profiting from the college students and that would be wrong.

    Call me what you will, but I tend to believe independent studies like the one performed by PriceWaterhouse Coopers (which is in my earlier link) over the Government Accounting Offices fuzzy accounting methods. The GAO methods don't even count DL program administrative costs when scoring the cost to taxpayers. They don't account for the taxes paid by banks in the FFEL program. This just doesn't bode well for comparing "apples to apples" the cost of the two programs to taxpayers.

    As for the UNC President Bowles not having researched products, that's not likely something that ANY university president has done, nor should they be expected to. That's the job of the Financial Aid Director who will report findings to the President's office. The point of the UNC decision is that "...it’s about students and parents getting to choose what loan they want.” How can it be okay for our own government to limit choice? How can you tell me that I have to take out my student loan from the government when I know darn well that it would cost me less to repay the same loan from a FFELP lender? Perhaps we should require all schools offer both programs and let the consumer decide what is best for them.

    You are wrong that "An informed borrower is a FFEL lenders worst nightmare." That's just an unfair statement. I really wish that borrowers would be more informed. I wish tuition would cost less so that students wouldn’t have to be so heavy in debt when they graduate. I wish they would understand how important it is to compare options and know about the discounts they can qualify for. I wish all High School graduates knew enough about personal finance to make well-informed decisions. What's sad is that there are so many students and parents just accepting being told by a Financial Aid office that they can only get a loan from the government direct loan program. Perhaps the 18-year-old students just don't know there are other options out there, or perhaps they just don't care as long as they get the loan. So, your students just take your statement at face value. But for the rest of us, we know that there are better options available.

    As for the poll, remember that it's not a question of whether a borrower wants to have a single lender or single loan payment at repayment (of course they do), it's a question of whether people want to choose from a list of 1 (Direct Loans) versus a list of 3 choices of lender (which may include Direct Loans as one of the options). Do you really believe that a majority of consumers prefer not having a choice, but rather being told they can only borrow from the government direct program? If that is really the case, I feel very badly about the future of this country.

  • RE: Joe Banker
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 18, 2007 at 3:25am EDT
  • Blind Man,

    I absolutely empathize with you for the added burden to the FAO's in running two programs. It isn't easy getting staff trained to process FFELP, but the guarantors provide terrific service and there are programs like ELM which can help a great deal in automating the loan delivery and certification processes. I'm sure lenders would be helpful except that since the Cuomo/Kennedy Witch Hunt, we're not allowed to do much to help because it would look like you're playing favorites.

    I wonder if it takes more staff time to handle DL than FFELP at a school. That would be a great study. So, I wonder if there is information as to how many staff hours are spent handling DL in a direct only school of a certain size, and how many staff hours to handle FFELP at a similar size school.

    My guess is that it's about the same, but surely similar size schools vary greatly in the level of service their administration dedicates to their students. Some colleges treat you about as well as you get treated shopping at Home Depot, and some treat you like you're at Nordstrom's.

    I realize it isn't really my direct problem, the added office burden, but surely if a school has processing problems handling my loans over my competitors loans, it is my problem. So, most lenders place a high priority on accuracy and efficiency in loan processing and delivery. And unlike in DL, if you're not happy with your loan provider(s), there's at least three more willing to try to do it better.

  • Profit?
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 18, 2007 at 6:05am EDT
  • I'm not sure why a social program is supposed to be profitable, kind of goes against the point of it. What next, food stamps? I'm as capitalistic as they come, trust me on that (in fact I'm probably the only FA in the country who gave MRU kudos for a brilliant marketing plan; shame about the logo) but if there is going to be a loan program picking my pocket it better make more sense than the mess students deal with everyday and what it is costing. I find the FFEL structure unnecesary government times two The poll was regarding a single source that is efficient and easy for staff to explain. I frankly don't care about the staff part-- it's my job and I can explain the 2 parties very well and do to every FFEL kid I get from other schools. It takes about an hour to go over it all but after 100's of borrowers, everyone has decided to go DL. That's why I could get you a 100% on the poll-- I give them the good and the bad in both programs and most of them find that the "profit" in a social program is largely distasteful (nevermind the school as lender kids who are even more incensed). They agree that it makes no sense there is a profit in a social program as well...
    I think if President Bowles wanted to consult with her staff she could surely find them but it looks like she chose not to based on the idiotic tale her people are quoting.

  • Posted by Do your job on July 18, 2007 at 7:35am EDT
  • Anne - Its not the Presidents job to be the expert on loans. It is YOURS. How can a parents concern over loan terms be idiotic? And, I appreciate the comment about taking away the campus' decision for what is in the best interest of students but in all due respect students make good decisions when provided the benefit of the full landscape of options and information. I think what the NC system is doing in financial aid is shifting the focus away from the campus and more to the student. Some campuses got their kickbacks and ruined the reputation of the rest of us. That's what we should be mad about.

  • Joe Banker
  • Posted by Blind Man on July 18, 2007 at 8:10am EDT
  • I agree that efficiency in processing loans is a shared effort, and as someone who has worked with both programs it is my experience that they both have their pros and cons. DL tends to be slightly more work im my opinion because you are responsible for booking the loan. It is an added responsibility over ffelp. Imagine an office that would have to book loans using federal software at the same time they are certifying loans through ffelp using whatever means the school uses to do that and then perform two separate reconciliations at the end of the year. I agree that many lenders and gaurantee agencies software and service has improved a great deal. Unfortunately it is not universal, and as well all know some guarantee/servicing agencies don't play well together. Again. my narrow concern is if presidents are going to make these decisions unilaterally, which is how some schools got into DL by the way, that there is a recognition that you can blow the balloon up so far before you have an undesirable effect.

  • DL less socialist than FFEL
  • Posted by CragieH on July 18, 2007 at 8:30am EDT
  • Competitive contracting, transparency, all the tenets of Adam Smith-style capitalism. DL has it. (Do you really think that Boeing and Halliburton are socialist?) Congress and the public can get info when they want. In FFEL, on the other hand, there is no transparency. There are three publicly-traded companies out there which provide separate, distinct info on their FFEL operations. One is going private later this year. Other than that, info is generally unavailable, even to the Congress that funds the program. Lenders and marketers operate under numerous names and claim that their governmental program data is "proprietary." You get a government check each quarter and don't have to provide anything in return to the public. What could be more socialist than that? It is a non-performance-based welfare check. Even the recent Kennedy report on FFEL practices is all anecdote, emails and gossip. No data.

  • Banker Joe...
  • Posted by DS on July 18, 2007 at 9:25am EDT
  • ...is your last name McCarthy? It's scary to think that our entire society is so fragile that Direct Lending is going to make it crumble. Funny how the FFELP industry cries out against the dangers of a Federal monopoly from the Direct Loan program, but I've never heard them want to help out with Pell, SEOG or any other Federal grants. When there's no money to be made on the back end, it seems that Federal monopolies are just fine and can exist and even flourish with no private sector involvement at all.

    The truth is that lenders benefit quite handsomely from what started out as a War on Poverty program, and now their execs live like rock stars. Clearly not the intent of the program when it was started. The money spent by the government should go to students, not CEO's. If that philosophy is communism or socialism, then All Hail Marx. If a few CEO's were making this much money off Social Security or similar domestic programs, there would be an outcry and it would be fixed. This corporate welfare program should be fixed too.

  • No surprise
  • Posted by Buzz on July 18, 2007 at 10:10am EDT
  • " .. As for the 85% wanted 1 lender/1 payment I would be happy to give my students the same poll .."

    Yes -- unionized college employees (and supervisors) are FOR freedom for themselves -- no one else.

    Any wonder why the public is losing confidence in public academia?

    Good job, President Bowles. You're doing the right thing -- don't let the unions, get you down.

  • RE: DL less socialist than FFEL
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 18, 2007 at 2:40pm EDT
  • CragieH,

    You think there is no transparency on lenders in FFELP? I gather then that you just don't know enough about FFELP. It's highly regulated, every loan is reported to the feds, every larger loan company is audited per DoED requirements. I'm not sure what you wanted to know, exactly, but I don't think the banking industry is really hiding anything. The volume of loans, the interest we collect, the fees we pay, the index used for special allowance payments... it's all out there.

    What isn't transparent is just how much the DL program costs taxpayers. Okay, let's assume for a moment that DL and FFELP cost taxpayers about the same. I'd argue that DL costs more (based on real independent audits) and you'd probably argue that FFELP costs more (but that's just because you may believe the political propaganda put out by the GAO). But let's just say for this instance that they cost about the same. And let's say both programs are identical (Congress will soon fix that little PLUS loan rate discrepancy soon). Why let the government program use funds from the treasury to run a program which makes zero profit, when the private sector (the highly regulated private sector) does the same thing with better service and the companies running the program still make some profit which gets reinvested into the economy.

    I guess it all boils down to philosophy. Are you for student loans as a social program, or student loans as a public/private partnership operated by the private sector? Maybe people just don't think banks should make a profit. I don't think gasoline companies should make a profit... but that's not the world we live in. Here, it's okay to make money. We all do it. It's the basis of the American Dream. Unfortunately, the dream comes with a price tag: mortgage, car loan, student loan, even savings and retirement investments. Would this be a better world if the government was the lender for my mortgage, or if they managed my IRA (because they're doing so well with Social Security!)? I don't think so.

    It's easy to hate banks, because we know that it's where so much of our income goes... it's like we owe our lives to banks. Who wouldn't resent banks? But it's not the bank's fault... we're just fulfilling a demand.

    Well, people could choose to live a lot more modestly in a smaller/older house, drive a smaller/older car, watch an old 19" television rather than the 48" LCD, listen to music on the radio instead of an iPod, go to a less expensive school, or perhaps we could just skip College and take jobs like cleaning hotel rooms or picking cherries.... Nah!

  • My job?
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 18, 2007 at 2:40pm EDT
  • I am loyal to my institution since they pay me. I am loyal to my students since they pay my institution which in turn pays me. It's called the circle... The difference between me and most other industries is there's a third constituency that I think is often forgot about: taxpayers. I am required by my government to be a good steward of taxpayer funds. That's why I get audited... I don't think I should somehow be magically different because it's education. I seriously don't get why I am one of the only ones who doesn't understand the pro-choice debate. It's a social program. Why is there a profit in a social program? I have yet to read one pro-choice arguement that held any merit. Maybe I'm the idiot...
    Two tenets I live by: "nothing in life is free" and "follow the money." For example: "the lender did my webpage-- it was free!" (insert brochure, flyer, entrance, exit, consolidation talk, phone bank, prom note management, above as well). That's not free. Someone is picking up the residual cost: student borrower and taxpayer.
    "Follow the money:" For example: "We at Bippiebank will set up your webpage" (again insert any of the other materials or services). OK, so it wasn't free and it cost the lender something but the cost to the lender is miniscule to gain the 80% market share at your school-- pennies....
    The MPN: "We at Bippiebank have a brilliant idea to make you and your students lives easier: the master loan note-- sign it once only" Who benefitted the most by that one? Lenders who now had less to worry about losing their borrowers to other lenders. No more pasky "sign your note" or preprinted prom notes mailed annually. "Please be a member of my board because we value your opinion and you are wicked smart"-- no, you give us credibility and hopefully a market share. Stop treating lenders like they are doing this for you in FA. Last time I checked, the only reason they cared about me was the market share I could give them. Maybe I'm too cynical but this is all a business to make money. I'd be working all the angles as well. I can say job security.
    I agree, students aren't stupid and parents aren't "idiots" but they are absolutely ignorant that federal lending is a multibillion dollar business making a lot of folks fat and happy.
    Lenders are supposed to be experts in promoting their products and capturing a market share and they are. The President of UNC: obviously his trusted staff is too frightened to say anything lest they be accused of criticizing the officials. If it was my President, I'm brash enough to say something as well as EXPLAIN clearly the programs pros and cons for students and I'm sure the Pres would go back to DL.
    Maybe I'm just too stupid to not see the value of lenders in a social program and the billions in profits.

  • Anyone in favor of personal decisionmaking?
  • Posted by Jon D. on July 18, 2007 at 3:55pm EDT
  • Ann,

    It's great that you have a point of view. It's good that you want to share it. It would be really great if you would allow others, like students, who when they graduate have to bear the financial burden that they incur, to make decisions for themselves after evaluating information from all sources they deem relevant.

    The idea that somehow students need to be protected from profit seekers is so terribly in conflict with every other aspect of the credit society that young and old students alike have to deal with. I'm sure you're aware that virtually every student you encounter has made independent decisions regarding credit cards and most have done the same with auto loans. The half of the student population that is over 25 includes a majority with a home mortgage and/or equity line of credit. How ever did they do this without the benign wisdom of a gatekeeper?

    Keep an open mind, stop assigning dogmatic value to student loans, and respect the fact that we, as students, have a brain. We can use advice but control by others that we pay the price for is unwelcome.

  • Dear John
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 18, 2007 at 7:30pm EDT
  • I can't believe I'm writing a Dear John post... The average age of my population is 24 plus. Most borrow close to $200,000 over the 4 years an then may go on for another $200,000 potentially and this doesn't include the crappy laons they borrowed at undergrad... I spent this afternoon going over lender, servicer, GA and who was who is the hodgepodge of debt for one today... If you think I sit behind my desk ordering my students around over email or sending them links to homepages to sign laon notes you'd be really surprised at what we discuss. I occasionally have 1 that has financed something large but even they are willing to give up the "shiney repayment incentives" dangled before them by FFEL lenders to have stability and not to have to track their loans around the country because time is money after all. They also want a good 30 repayment (no prepaying for any of them) and the financially literate and former taxpayer types are more than befuddled as to why there is a profit margin in this social program. Actually, they are funner to talk to because we can have a good discussion about marketing angles, incentives, advertisements and how lenders could further maximize their profits. I enjoy those kids tremendously, funnily enough most are fiscally conservative republicans. Funnily enough: everyone of them has gone Direct... They would like to see their rates go down but can connect the dots between a lenders profit margin and a cut to their rates and none of them are holding their breaths for that.
    Anyway, last time I checked mortgages and credit cards were a privately funded endeavor and should stay that way. I don't think I'd encourage a home equity or 2nd mortgage for my kids (or their parents) since last time I checked, there is no deferment provision or forbearance option on those, far too risky, even if there would be some tax savings.
    So to clarify: I'm not a loan nazi or a socialist. I have never told a student what to do since they will surely have a lot of other financial decisions to make in life and this is a baby step-- it's practice. I will warn them if I think they are going to do something totally whacked but that's about as far as I'll go. Their life, their money, they pay the piper and have to take the consequences of their actions.
    If they go to another school, we sit and look at homepages, lender lists (and storefront lenders), costs and apps, try to work in the Roth along the way. All in all, it's all basically the same contract law for the most part in lending and we do discuss mortgages, credit cards etc... That's what they pay me to do; not to find them a lender with pretty brochures or to do my exits or to answer my phones or to make sure my loan notes get signed to really shift the overhead in my office.
    Public/private partnership-- funny, I don't think I see the public winning in this game or really students (unless ou factor in the shareholders). But maybe it's because I am more like the anti-Christ in FA.
    And yes, I know I could sell these kids anything but I don't. They even get my home phone number at graduation just in case. Wow, I must be really dense.

  • Sell them anything
  • Posted by Playing Ball on July 19, 2007 at 10:55am EDT
  • Well I guess you said it best "You can sell them anything" The sad part is here, you sold them on a loan that was easy for you to explain, your side of view, your political view, and last but not least, the loan that in the end would cost them the most money. If you would have had to be unbiased, give them the full disclosure of a private lender terms, a DL term without any of your political input, hands down, I am willing to bet between the student and the parent, they would have made a much better educated choice. You deprived every one of those students of the ability to take hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars off their loan. Instead, you stood on your righteous soapbox and didn't offer them the opportunity to look at both options. Don't give me the percent that get it or don't. That isn't your job. Your job is to give them the information. You didn't even offer them that chance. If I were a parent I would be mad as H right now knowing you counseled me with a biased opinion. Also, no matter how you look at it, rather it is tax funded felp dollars, or tax funded DL dollars, it is still a tax funded program. So your tax dollars are being spent either way. One difference is that with ffelp, the money that is given to lenders is put back into the student and the program. Not one dime of DL is put back into anything. DL has been losing money for years and been a burden to tax payers. So is it ok for the tax payers money to be wasted on a program that is losing money but not ok to be wasted on a program that will at least produce programs that can give some back in the way of, printing, borrower benefits, etc for the students. Maybe a lunch or two at Apple Bees; so what. Ok I will admit there are and has been some wasted dollars and some bad fish in the sea but when isn't there in any business. I guarantee that if the government runs program you will find a lot of corrupt people running around if there was anything to get from it. If we are talking about full disclosure, then don't be so afraid of full disclosure and offer it on both sides.

  • KEEP IT ABOUT STUDENTS
  • Posted by Playing Ball on July 19, 2007 at 2:25pm EDT
  • Well I guess you said it best "You can sell them anything" The sad part is here, you sold them on a loan that was easy for you to explain, your side of view, your political view, and last but not least, the loan that in the end would cost them the most money. If you would have had to be unbiased, give them the full disclosure of a private lender terms, a DL term without any of your political input, hands down, I am willing to bet between the student and the parent, they would have made a much better educated choice. You deprived every one of those students of the ability to take hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars off their loan. Instead, you stood on your righteous soapbox and didn't offer them the opportunity to look at both options. Don't give me the percent that get it or don't. That isn't your job. Your job is to give them the information. You didn't even offer them that chance. If I were a parent I would be mad as H right now knowing you counseled me with a biased opinion. Also, no matter how you look at it, rather it is tax funded felp dollars, or tax funded DL dollars, it is still a tax funded program. So your tax dollars are being spent either way. One difference is that with ffelp, the money that is given to lenders is put back into the student and the program. Not one dime of DL is put back into anything. DL has been losing money for years and been a burden to tax payers. So is it ok for the tax payers money to be wasted on a program that is losing money but not ok to be wasted on a program that will at least produce programs that can give some back in the way of, printing, borrower benefits, etc for the students. Maybe a lunch or two at Apple Bees; so what. Ok I will admit there are and has been some wasted dollars and some bad fish in the sea but when isn't there in any business. I guarantee that if the government runs program you will find a lot of corrupt people running around if there was anything to get from it. If we are talking about full disclosure, then don't be so afraid of full disclosure and offer it on both sides.

  • "Selling?"
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 20, 2007 at 6:05am EDT
  • Go ahead, tell me why a profit margin in this particular endeavor is a good thing and I'll add it into the discussion to fully give both sides and we'll see who decides to shop in which aisle from there. I already am well versed in what you do with it but why is it there in the first place? What purpose does it serve?

  • There you go again
  • Posted by My Turn on July 20, 2007 at 8:35am EDT
  • Again, there you go with just your justification of your soap box. All I am trying to say is to put them both side by side, leave your bias out of it and let the student and parent decide. It isn't your loan- it's their loan. You sell them on your bias and political view. You should be a non biased financial aid consultant giving them the information and terms and that is it.

  • Profit Margin
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 20, 2007 at 3:45pm EDT
  • Anne,

    First, I believe it is a fact that discounts offered by FFELP lenders will result in a lesser cost of borrowing. I gather that your bigger issue is that lenders make profit from loans. Well, if FDLP and FFELP are equal programs, then why support a product (FDLP) which makes nobody any profit? If "a loan is a loan" then why not do it in a program where it helps someone? Profits in capitalist society are not a bad thing. Profits help to move the economy forward. Do you have any savings or IRA's or Real Estate? I imagine you'd like to make a little profit on those things. Or do you just stuff your mattress with cash for your retirement? If you have an IRA, I gather then that none of the mutual funds you may have contain holdings of a financial institution, or any institution that makes a profit for that matter.

    The student loan programs are not social programs intended to be not-for-profit. The FFEL program exists because the government can't afford to pay for 100% of educational costs for everyone in the country. Yes, loan programs are partially subsidized by taxpayers, but they're not intended to be non-profit (though Congress is working on making it as minimally profitable for lenders as possible).

    If you're just hell-bent on the non-profit issue, then there are still a few not-for-profit lenders and guarantors in the FFEL Program (I don't think Sallie bought all of them up). You may consider talking with one of them about how much they can save your students.

  • It's not mine?
  • Posted by Ann Doherty on July 21, 2007 at 7:00am EDT
  • Funny, I would think that if my tax dollars are being spent to pay your fees and special allowances along the way, it kinda is mine in a way and thus, I should have a say.
    And I can't really do what you, Joe Banker, want me to do: explain why a profit in FFEL lending is a good thing. Anyone who can, I am more than williing to consider it and add it to the discussion with students (and parents) because it seems I am not the only stupid one who can't come up with a good reason, neither can any of them. Last time I checked "non-profit" didn't mean it was a charity (see the story about the lender with the corporate jet etc... if you are confused and article about the newest investigation in this mess).
    I'll take your suggestion into consideration and find the closest thing to a charity, DL, running a deficit that I am certain would pale in comparison to the profits in FFEL.

  • Just too blind to see it
  • Posted by MY TURN on July 21, 2007 at 8:00pm EDT
  • AGAIN, you just can't grasp it. All I am saying is put them side by side. Leave your bias out of it and let the student and parent decide for themselves. You are not the one paying back THEIR loan. BOTH loans, FFEL and FDSL are both tax funded programs so if you must say they are using your tax dollars, then both are using your tax dollars. The point being that you do not have a right to push your political and biased view onto students and parents when it comes to THEIR student loans. You need to be neutral at all times. Why are you so afraid to offer both? This isn't about your tax dollars. This is about students and their student loans. If there is a way to help them save money, regardless of your political biased, you are wrong to not offer the option to them. Totally wrong. I have a lot of political views myself. However, when students come into my office, I have to leave my political views under my desk. You should too.

  • RE: It’s not mine?
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 23, 2007 at 6:00pm EDT
  • Ann,

    News Flash: Student Loans are NOT charity.

    They're not really even need based aid. Sure, for the "subsidized stafford" loan, there's a little need basis for that, but then, you can have a student attending say, Princeton qualifying for subsidized stafford even though his parents make six figures. (Is that fair? Student goes to a more expensive school thus qualifies for subsidized loan interest? Now HERE's where the government can save some real money... take away the subsidized interest for anyone above a $#,### EFC) This subsidized interest is just one of the "nice" things the government does for students... pays their interest on some of their student loan when Cost less other Aid still leaves unmet need. Now, explain to the single mom who makes 50,000 a year going to community college can't get a subsidized interest stafford loan and the kid with silver spoon DOES!).

    Okay, so maybe I've said something you can actually agree with, but it's a little off topic... I digress.

    Here's why making profit for banks is good: Because this is America. Love it or leave it. Well, that's the short answer. I've already stated how it's good for the same reason that Capitalism is better than Communism. Because it helps support the American Dream. If that doesn't work, try "Because who wants to rely just on what the government will provide us?

    We're not all spending our profits on a $30 million private jet. Okay, of course that's not really the best business decision in my mind, but that company STILL didn't HARM the students any more than Direct Loans harms them... they just chose poorly how to spend their income. But hey, the money that company spent on the jet did help support the workers who built and sold that plane, and their families, and those airplane workers pay income taxes on the money their airplane company pays them, and their company pays tax on their profits, and some of that tax money went to subsidize the interest for that Princeton student's loan... and some went to provide a pell grant to another student somewhere, so, not all is lost!

    Without bank revenue, they couldn't have bought the jet, then the jet company goes out of business because the government deems that companies can't spend income on big ticket convenience items, so the company closes and all those people who build those jets are enemployed... what good would that do?

    If there was no FFELP, and all loans were Direct, then sure, banks wouldn't be buying jets or taking FAO's to lunch. But the cost to students will still be about the same. The only thing that DL does then is keep money out of the private sector. Why? Just because the private sector is better at making money from a loan than the government is?

    The government takes the "same" loan and only loses money, and that's better? Because nobody benefited? So... let me get this straight... 6.8% interest paid, government runs it, makes nothing... good. Bank runs it, makes 0.5% profit margin, same cost to taxpayers, this is wrong.

    So again, the question, Do you have any retirement savings, IRA, stocks within mutual funds which you hope will pay you better than 0% growth until retirement? Or are you good with just the social security administrations plan for your retirement?