Search News


Browse Archives

News

Senators Side With Students

July 20, 2007

Share This Story

FREE Daily News Alerts

Advertisement

Ultimately, they probably never had a chance.

The two U.S. senators who proposed an amendment to the nearly $19 billion student loan bill that was debated, and ultimately passed, on the Senate floor Thursday may have had some legitimate arguments on their side. They asserted -- and some of its opponents conceded -- that no one knows for sure whether the cuts that the underlying "budget reconciliation" legislation would make to subsidies for student loan providers could force some lenders out of the market. Rather than risk that outcome, the amendment's backers said, wouldn't it be wise to be a little more cautious and cut a little less deeply into lender profits, to the tune of $15.6 billion instead of $18 billion?

In the hours leading up to Thursday afternoon's vote, even opponents believed that those arguments -- and the lobbying might of the student loan industry -- gave the amendment a realistic shot. But the ability of Democratic lawmakers and advocates for students to frame the issue, simply and starkly, as a choice between helping needy students or fat-cat for-profit lenders proved too powerful for most senators to ignore, especially after proponents of the amendment were forced to concede that it would reduce the money available to students by $4 billion over five years.

It was hard not to picture lawmakers thinking ahead to the campaign ad quoting Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), who led opposition to the measure, as saying: "Do we want to do more for students or more for the banks?" As Kennedy flashed a chart showing how much less students in each state would receive under the proposed amendment, one could almost see the votes peeling away. Ultimately, 62 senators, including 13 Republicans, voted down the amendment, clearing the only significant potential hurdle to the overall budget bill, which the Senate finally passed, after a marathon of unrelated amendments were rebuffed one after another, early Friday morning by a vote of 78 to 18.

The showdown over softening the proposed cuts to lenders was the only significant substantive battle during the Senate's consideration of the the budget reconciliation legislation. After that conflict dissipated into a rout, a parade of Democrats (and a few Republicans) rose to praise the bill as a long-overdue effort to help make college more affordable for families through a variety of measures, including:

  • Providing $17.3 billion over five years for need-based financial aid, notably through the creation of “Promise Grants,” which would go to Pell Grant eligible students with the greatest financial need. The creation of the Promise Grants, which would essentially be an extension of the Pell program, would result in the equivalent of increasing the maximum Pell Grant to at least $5,100 next year and to $5,400 by 2011, assuming that Congress does not otherwise increase the Pell Grant through the normal appropriations process.
  • Instituting a system of “income-based repayment” for borrowers, in which their student loan payments would be capped at a manageable percentage of their income (15 percent of the amount by which a borrower’s adjusted gross income exceeds 150 percent of the poverty line) and their debt canceled after 25 years of repayment.
  • Raising the amount that working students can earn -- through the “income protection allowance” -- without reducing their financial aid awards. Those amounts would rise to $6,000 by 2012-13 for dependent students and $9,330 for financially independent students.
  • Forgiving the remaining student loan balance after 10 years for borrowers who enter and spend a certain amount of time working in public service fields and fulfill other national needs.
  • Increasing to $30,000 from the current $20,000 the family income level under which a student is automatically eligible for the maximum Pell Grant.

“The passage of the Higher Education Access Act tonight was a victory not only for students and their families, but for the American people," Kennedy said in a statement released after the vote. "With this new Congress we made education a national priority again, and we’ve given the next generation the tools they need to compete in the global economy. Not since the GI bill, has education been made such a priority in the nation’s budget."

Opponents of the measure took great pains to praise its overall thrust of trying to make college more affordable for students. A few budget hawks, like Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), criticized the bill as an abuse of the budget reconciliation process, which is designed to shave funds from federal mandatory programs to shrink the deficit. Instead, Gregg said, the legislation will pour close to $18 billion of additional money into government programs over five years, and nearly $60 billion over 10 years.

That number grew somewhat after senators approved two other amendments to the legislation, including one (sponsored by a Republican, no less, Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska) that would use $176 million that would have gone toward deficit reduction to instead expand a new program aimed at helping states encourage low-income students go to college.

Most of the objections to the bill, though, revolved around how deeply it would cut into lender profits to pay for all the goodies for students. Among other things, it would:

  • Reduce lender profits on new federal loans by 0.5 points for for-profit lenders and 0.35 points for nonprofit lending agencies.
  • Drop to 16 percent from 23 percent the proportion that guarantee agencies can keep of the funds they collect from borrowers.
  • Double the fee that lenders pay the Treasury when consolidating loans, to 1 percent from 0.5 percent.
  • End a program that rewards loan providers who are “exceptional performers” in servicing their student loans.

Lenders have been arguing for months that the accumulation of cuts will make the student loan business unprofitable for many a small lender, a concern that led Kennedy and Rep. Michael B. Enzi (R-Wyo.), in drafting the bill, to exact smaller cuts from nonprofit lenders than from for-profit providers. In the amendment they put forward Thursday, Sens. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) (home to Nelnet, a leading for-profit lender) and Richard Burr (R-N.C.), sought to level the playing field by applying the 0.35 point cut to for-profit companies, too.

In promotional materials and in introducing the measure on the Senate floor, the amendment's sponsors sought to portray it as having no negative impact on the money available to students. "It preserves the maximum Pell Grant levels [in the budget bill] and does not reduce financial aid for students," Nelson said Thursday. Despite criticism from student groups, he added, "the Nelson/Burr amendment increases grant aid to the exact same funding levels" as the Democratic bill.

Only that's not quite the case, Kennedy pointed out, comparing, line by line, the amounts that the two measures would make available for the new "Promise Grants" program for students from low-income families. "There is $4.2 billion less in terms of student aid," the Massachusetts Democrat said.

"We raise $4 billion less money out of the system, and we believe that's a prudent thing to do," Burr ultimately conceded. When Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), responding to a Kennedy chart showing that Rhode Island students would lose $10 million in aid under the amendment, asked Burr whether that was so, Burr said he hadn't done the math. "But I've never found [Kennedy's] charts to be incorrect," he said with a weak smile.

By that point, the steam seemed to have gone out of support for the amendment, and when the senators ultimately cast their ballot, all Democrats save two and 13 Republicans (Missouri's Christopher (Kit) Bond, Minnesota's Norm Coleman, Maine's Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe, New Mexico's Pete Domenici, Enzi, Charles Grassley of Iowa, Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, Richard Lugar of Indiana, Murkowski, Oregon's Gordon Smith, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Alaska's Ted Stevens) opposed the alternative.

Lenders were deeply disappointed. "With the defeat of the Nelson-Burr amendment today, Congress has severely limited the options of families and students who are trying to effectively plan and pay for college," Eric Solomon, a spokesman for Nelnet, said in a prepared statement. "This legislation will force significant portions of the private sector away from the student loan market, thereby reducing access to the expertise, products and services necessary to provide a deeper understanding and fulfill the variety of financing needs that American families require in today’s environment of high-cost higher education.... The bottom line is the Senate’s vote was bad for millions of students and their families who are already struggling to pay rapidly rising tuitions."

The bipartisanship that marked much of Thursday's discussion frayed near the end of the debate that went late into the night, as Republican senators sought to attach amendments to the budget bill that had nothing to do with higher education or the substance of the legislation (on subjects such as the Federal Communications Commission's "fairness doctrine" and detainees at Guantanamo Bay), virtually all of which were rebuffed as "non-germane." The "vote-a-rama," as one higher education lobbyist called it, proceeded past midnight, although the majority leader, Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, vowed to keep the Senate in session until the budget measure finally passed.

Ultimately, though, a large majority of senators voted to embrace the final legislation. Now it will be up to a committee of Senate and House members to draft a compromise version of the budget legislation that meshes the Senate's version with a parallel measure the House approved this month. President Bush has threatened to veto the House measure.

College leaders, who had thrown their support behind the Senate bill in recent days, applauded the Senate's support for the bill Thursday.

"This bill is a major victory for students and families," said Terry W. Hartle, senior vice president for government and public affairs at the American Council on Education. "It's also notable -- and increasingly rare -- that we can call this a bipartisan success story -- a reminder that both Democrats and Republicans have historically supported federal student aid."

He added: "There are significant differences between the House and Senate reconciliation bills, but I predict that the two sides will work them out quickly and successfully."

See all postings »
Advertisement
Advertisement

Matching Jobs

Comments on Senators Side With Students

  • Drug Provision
  • Posted by Daryl on July 20, 2007 at 8:10am EDT
  • I applaud the Senate's action on passage of the Higher Education Reconciliation Bill, indeed a victory for students and families across the country. There is one aspect of Senate action that I am baffled by and am hopeful that some resolution will come in the future.

    Late last night, through one of only a few voice votes on the floor, The United States Senate stripped language from the Higher Education Reconciliation bill that would have required the Department of Education to remove the drug question from the FAFSA.

    Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), sponsored one of only a few germane amendments on the floor during the late night session. Graham's amendment, rather than enabling more students to receive much needed aid, continues to forbid even those with a small amount of possession to obtain financial aid.

    This is of much concern to me as Kennedy's substitute amendment contained a provision to remove such language.

    With Section 701 stripped from the Senate version of Higher Education Reconciliation, and no provision within the House version in any form, I am concerned with the fact that an overwhelming number of organizations supporting a full repeal may be ignored.

    With over 200,000 students stripped of much needed aid, one would think that the Senate would have done the right thing.

    Maybe, just maybe, their might be a glimpse of hope through conference.

  • Student loan bill
  • Posted by feudi pandola on July 20, 2007 at 8:20am EDT
  • Rather than characterize this new legislation as students vs. banks, I would prefer calling it higher education vs. excessive profits. The deregulation of the alternative student loan market has not been good for students, but it has been great for the stockholders of Sallie Mae, et al.

  • Posted by Alyssa on July 20, 2007 at 9:50am EDT
  • All of this is great and will truly help students, but more needs to be done to help people already out of college and unable to pay their loans. These new regulations, including income based repayment, will help with my federal loans, but will do nothing to help with my private loans.

    Private student loans are an entirely different creature. They are essentially an unsecured loan with the name student in the title. There's no justification for treating private student lenders differently from any other type of creditor.

    Private student loans should not be classified the same as child support, taxes, criminal fines and federal student loans in bankruptcy. They are not regulated, do not have the same benefits as federal loans, and have interest rates worst than some credit cards. We need to take a stand against these companies and protect the American people who go to college to better their lives, only to be unable to make payments after graduation because interest rates are through the roof!

    Thousands of people across the country are educated and in poverty status because of huge corporations taking advantage of them and their families who are unaware of the effects of private student loans.

    The current law that prohibits private unsecured student loans from being discharged in bankruptcy is leading these companies to loan out as much as they can to whomever applies. They know they can siphon money out of that person forever.

    Please call your senators and ask them to support S.1561 allowing private unsecured loans to be discharged in bankruptcy. Without calls, nothing will be done!!

  • Private Loans and Personal Responsibility
  • Posted by Scott on July 20, 2007 at 10:50am EDT
  • Two things: First, I've heard a lot about the dire consequences of private students loans, and I'm certainly not going to argue that private loans are necessarily a good thing. But I was intrigued by the story on Barnard college (http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/07/16/barnard) and how they're working with students to educate them about private loans. It seems a little bit of financial literacy has done a far greater job of discouraging students from taking out unnecessary student loans than government regulation can do. I'll also have to disagree with Alyssa about bankruptcy being a solution. Discharging student loans through bankruptcy may offer the borrower a reprieve from debt, but they will be no more likely to be able to buy a house or make any other major financial transactions with a bankruptcy in their credit history. Like most things in life, I belive an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. In this case, some good financial literacy education might prevent more students from taking on excessive debt, as well as ensuring they take out private loans only as a last resort.

    Second, this says nothing about the underlying cause of the rise in student borrowing: increasing college costs. If tuition weren't increasing at more than twice the rate of inflation, I suspect the need for private loans would be much lower. I understand that it's a complicated issue involving state, federal and institutional resources, the pressure for advanced research, etc. Unfortunately, nothing Congress has done recently is going to affect that side of the equation and the trend doesn't appear to be changing. A few years from now students will be just as hard pressed to pay for college without taking on private student loan debt because Congress hasn't dedicated any new resources to student aid. Sure, they've redistributed resources, and in the process taken $750 million away from the student aid programs. Not exactly the way to college affordability, despite the talking points about putting students before the banks.

  • Posted by Kevin on July 20, 2007 at 12:40pm EDT
  • Granted, I’m employed by a lender, but isn’t it a little disingenuous to title this article “Senators Side with Students” considering there’s no factual evidence on whether or not this legislation will actually help students long term?

    I must say, the constant insinuation that lenders care nothing about students is getting a little tiresome.

  • Posted by Alyssa on July 20, 2007 at 1:35pm EDT
  • I wasn't saying bankruptcy was a fix, but do you really believe that private unsecured loans should be treated the same in bankruptcy as federal loans, child support payments, etc? They are the same as any other unsecured debt and should be treated as such! That is just a fact.

    Private loans do not have the same benefits as federal loans. If my loans were federal, I would have no problems paying because they would be willing to work with me. My lenders told me my only option was to pay on time, the full minimum payment, or I will default. When those payments are almost $1500/month and I make $1800 a month, how is that possible? That means I can't afford rent, food, gas, etc etc etc. I WANT to pay, but they won't work with me!

    I agree something needs to be done, and the literacy article was great, but how do those things help me now? Something needs to be done to help the thousands of people out there like me. It's time to stop protecting the student loan companies!! They make billions of dollars and harrass me because I am not making a full payment. I am trying but that is not good enough for them. (If you saw my fridge you would laugh. I am not lying when I say I cannot even afford food because of these loans).

    The fact remains, private student loans are an unsecured loan with the name student in the title. There's no reason to treat private student lenders differently than any other type of creditor. End of story.

    If they had the benefits of federal loans, fine! But they DO NOT!

  • Siding with Students?
  • Posted by Patrick on July 20, 2007 at 2:35pm EDT
  • I agree that private interests should not make excessive profits off of student debt, but it seems clear to me that whether a medical student borrows $150,000 from a FFELP lender or from FDSL, he still has a boatload of debt and limited career choices as a result. This legislation does nothing to alleviate student debt and allow graduates to find employment in underserved fields or geographic locations. Furthermore, I resent the fact that Washington can find trillions of dollars for a questionable "war" but can only increase Pell Grants by a few hundred dollars when billions of dollars in cuts are taken from another area of higher education spending. How many Pell Grants could we fund if we scrapped the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere?"

    Here's how I see it. Politicians either don't have answers or don't want to take the measures necessary to reform vital programs like financial aid. So, like they did with the border issue, they will cleverly re-direct Americans to a more emotional issue like FFELP subsidies. While the FFELP and FDSL communities battle it out on listservs, Washington officials shift the scrutiny away from their miserable failures in almost every single area of public policy, both domestic and foreign. Surely, there are better ways to ensure that FFELP providers do not get filthy rich without risking the integrity of the entire program? Quite possibly. But this contentious piece of legislation has caused a firestorm of controversy that fails to address the underlying issue--the rising cost of higher education and the growing importance of such training in a knowledge-based service economy.

    To refer back to my earlier point, we are now closing in on six years post-9/11 and, as far as I can tell, we still have not done nearly enough to protect our borders. Our two dominant parties have failed us again. What we get is an immigration bill that re-directs our attention and results in a bitter nationwide debate over the status of illegal immigrants in the U.S. Very clever! But it does not help us prevent a potential terrorist from crossing the border with a dirty bomb.

    We should be uniting as FAOs, lender and guarantor reps to insist on fair treatment for our students and better aid programs, including a healthy investment in loan forgiveness for teachers, primary care physicians and public defenders to name a few. The battle between FDSL and FFELP is a diversion and this legislation stinks. Forget what it will do to the FFELP industry. It stinks because it does not invest in higher education but rather, takes from one program to invest in others. I don't say that's a bad thing, but can I ask why we never seem to have additional funds to invest in financial aid? Sadly, our politicos have drawn the battle lines between those of us who should be standing together while they reap the political rewards for launching misguided investigations and proposing poor policy.

  • Regarding Loan Forgiveness
  • Posted by Kevin on July 20, 2007 at 6:10pm EDT
  • I don't necessarily disagree with encouraging students to enter into some of the fields you reference as candidates for loan forgiveness, but I can't help but wonder if the practice of loan forgiveness falls into a similar line with the very same tactics Patrick chastises government officials with earlier in his post.

    It seems to me that such a practice would merely encourage more students to choose one of these fields of study based on the fact that they can come out with no debt. But wouldn't we instead want to have people in these positions that are passionate about the field?

    So it would seem that the real issue, while on the surface may seem to be purely financial, really comes down to the fact that though we as a society say we value these positions, in reality, we do not.

    We all say we want to provide children with a quality education, grant the needy access to affordable health care, and provide quality legal representation to those that can't purchase a verdict. But when we consider the discrepancy between the investment necessary and compensation for those that choose these fields, it becomes painfully obvious that we don't actually value the individuals or the services as much as we might say.

    So it would seem that until which time we’re actually willing to put our money where our mouths are, and provide more than just warm bodies to fill these positions, we may need to be careful about assigning a color value to the political pot.

  • Senate move is AGAINST students
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 20, 2007 at 6:10pm EDT
  • This move will only assure removal of some of the borrower repayment incentives / benefits being offered by FFELP lenders. Well, perhaps now DL will be more competitive with FFELP because the lenders are just going to charge closer to the fully allowed amount on the student loans (the same amount the FDLP borrowers pay). So say goodbye to lenders paying the Federal Origination Fee or Federal Default Fee for borrowers. Say goodbye to interest rate discounts.

    This is good for students? Why, because they'll pay less in taxes? No. Because they'll pay less on their loans? No. Sure, they'll get more Pell... that's great. But they'll loose more than that on the repayment of their FFELP loans. And most dollars borrowed are for students who are not getting Pell, so these students only loose. But it makes good political press for those politicians saving the world from these "corrupt, money grubbing lenders."

    What a crock!

  • Need based aid and greed based aid
  • Posted by DS on July 20, 2007 at 8:15pm EDT
  • Joe Banker's comments only prove the point many are making...that lenders' "concern" for students is as a means of making lots and lots of money. Everyone has a right to try to do that, but not at the expense of taxpayers and Pell Grants...and when they roll out these "We Make Dreams Come True" slogans, it rings hollow. Lenders aren't bad people at all. But when they argue that students are going to be hurt, it means that executive perks come first. If subsidy cuts have to be paid for by students and not stockholders, well, that's just greed.

  • Joe, and Kevin need to retire.
  • Posted by Alan Collinge , Founder at Studentloanjustice.org on July 21, 2007 at 12:25pm EDT
  • 30 years ago, even the most expensive college education could be paid for in perhaps half a year's salary at most. The bankers and universities have found a way to charge admission to the American Dream. What's worse, if that dream doesn't pay off, the ticket doubles or triples in price, turning the dream into a nightmare.

    Joe and Kevin should do something useful for once in their careers, and retire.

  • Private Loans Non-Dischargeable Bankruptcy?
  • Posted by James Wright on July 21, 2007 at 5:45pm EDT
  • Am I correct in that private loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy? When did that occur? How do such lenders enjoy such protections? That is ridiculous.

  • James, you are correct
  • Posted by alan collinge , Founder at studentloanjustice.org on July 21, 2007 at 8:00pm EDT
  • James, you are absolutely correct. It happened with the 2005 Bankruptcy bill. No one even noticed it until it was too late.

    You can ask Kevin and Joe (above) how it happened, because they did it.

  • ALT LOAN ADVICE
  • Posted by Siding with Students and FAO on July 21, 2007 at 8:00pm EDT
  • Alyssa, how did you ever get so much in alternative loan debt that your monthly loan payment is $1500? I have to ask you a couple questions. Did you think about the cost of your education vs your ability to pay for it later? Could you have chosen a cheaper path? Did you listen to your financial aid office that was telling you that you will have to pay this back some day and to only borrow what you need? Did you take out loan money to live on while in school? Here is the problem with today. Students do not think about the long term affect student loans are going to have. Maybe someone tried to tell you to either go to a cheaper school or tried to tell you not to take out so much money. The best advice someone can give a student reading any of these is that it isn't a lenders fault if you are taking out large amounts of loan debt. Its like this. You can drive a pontiac and get from here to there and have a $200 a month payment. Or you can drive a jag and have a $1000 dollar a month payment and get from here to there. Now granted, you will look good in the jag. You may get a better looking date and lots of nods however, both cars will get you to work every day just the same. If you chose to burden yourself with the loan debt of the jag, you have no one to blame but you. Also, the lender you borrowed from for the jag could be the same lender you would have borrowed from for the pontiac but guaranteed the lender will make a lot more money off you if you buy the jag. So is that the lenders fault that you chose to buy a jag and take a loan for $70k instead of $20k? How much more interest is there on a loan for $70k than $20k? Everyone wants to blame lenders for students borrowing all this loan debt. Give me a break everyone. It is business 101. My first two years of college were at a Community College and I didn't have to borrow a dime. My last two years were at a University and I borrowed as little as possible and worked full time. I now am a FAO at a great school and make a great living. Now if you lose your jag, is it the lenders fault because you chose the jag instead of the one you should of had and could have afforded? No, it is your fault. End of story.
    Sadly you will need to get a second job and do all you can to pay off this debt. Then advise every high school student you can to be wise with their college choice and not pick the jag unless mom and dad can write a check for it at the door.
    As far as this whole siding with students. What a joke and i totally agree with Patrick and Joe. How in the heck is this really going to help students. For the alt loan payment of $1500, if you trim $100 off that loan a year for 5 years; which is the amount of Pell you would get with a zero efc over the next 5 years, does that help you much with that loan debt? Somehow I dont' think it will even put a dent in it. If we break that down in to 12 months, that is $8.33 a month. With your monthly income of $1800 and your loan payment of $1500, somehow I think that will afford you 3 more boxes of Mac and Cheese a month and that is about it.
    So lets get real here.

  • FAO employee blaming the student.
  • Posted by Alan Collinge , Founder at Studentloanjustice.org on July 23, 2007 at 5:00pm EDT
  • How interesting that we (above) have a university financial aid employee blaming the student (Alyssa) for her financial woes.

    This person assumes that the financial aid office warned Alyssa of the danger, when we all know that the amount of real counseling provided by most financial aid offices is negligible.

    We all know that financial aid staff are more interested in closing deals, then offering sage advice. We also know now that the relationships between financial aid offices and lenders are more than cozy. Just check out the Rocky Mountain Association of Financial Aid Administrators for five minutes. Among the leaders of this arganization are employees of Sallie Mae, Edfund, Nelnet, and many other lending institutions.

    I'm getting more than tired of you folks using the principle of personal responsibility as a cover for lender greed, and FAO irresponsibility.

    You say "I told you so", when in all likelihood, you didn't.

    Don't get on your high horse now, and proclaim your undying passion to help students. Its bullshit. I know it. You know it. We all know it.

  • RE: Need based aid and greed based aid
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 23, 2007 at 5:00pm EDT
  • DS,

    It seems you and many others would rather that banks simply not make money at all on student loans. If that's to be the case, what you're really supporting is elimination of FFELP which is a separate subject. Banks are in business to make money (what a shock!). If you feel a bank, or any company for that matter, is gouging you for a profit... go somewhere else to get your product. If you feel having a government program provide the product is better for the borrowers, well that's more of a political argument... I'm not here to change anyone's political philosophy (that's just not possible). It does kind of bug me though that some FA Officers/Directors let their personal politics direct the course of their institutions' loan policies. But that's another matter.

    Look, I know some of you may THINK that banks are making these huge profits on student loans... well, take a look at Mark K.'s analysis recently on the finaid.org site (http://www.finaid.org/educators/2007subsidycuts.txt) and maybe you'll have a little better understanding. These recent proposals are likely to make many smaller FFELP lenders leave the program, so there'll mostly be just a few larger players available. Great. Less competition, right? You won't have to worry about dealing with dozens or more lenders sending you loan cert requests... every week, just a couple. (Unless of course you're a DL school, and who cares about a borrowers choice then?)

    So, do you really believe that banks (or any company for that matter) should make no profit? Okay, that's just not how the world turns. Student loan lenders cost taxpayers no more, and arguably less, that the government direct loan program. But even assuming it costs the same (you have to realize that the GAO covers up administrative costs of the DL program in order to make it look better than FFELP), why let the government do what the private sector already does, more efficiently, and with better service... even while making a little profit? If your answer is just because "lenders shouldn't make profits on students" then ask yourselves to examine where else parts of your campus are making money off of students. I'm sure you could find even more savings for borrowers then. Housing costs? Capital expenditures? Staff salaries? Advertising or recruiting? I'm sure there's lots of money to be saved for your students somewhere else as well.

    Is expecting to make a profit greed? Well, you get a paycheck... do you hope to have a little left over to maybe buy a better car, house, maybe just better food? That's the same thing. Maybe then you're being greedy in your salary... you could save students money if your salary was lower, because if you have any left over after bills, that's "profit." In fact, maybe you could live more meagerly and not have as nice of things, then you could save students even more money. Because apparently, if anybody has more than the basics that a human being needs to survive, they're greedy.

    Companies, small businesses, your hair dresser, even politicians... all work to make more money than they spend (profit). Don't give me this line about profits are wrong... this is America. We're capitalists. If you want better government only controlled programs, you'll have to move to another country.

  • RE: FAO employee blaming the student
  • Posted by Joe Banker on July 23, 2007 at 6:00pm EDT
  • Alan,

    I'm sorry that student loans are not grant programs. I'm sorry loans cost money. I wish college was free and that all colleges only charged what it really cost to go to school, and that the cost of education at every school was parallel to the quality of the education.

    It's a tough life lesson to realize that money doesn't grow on trees; that things cost money, that everything we buy, every service we pay for from anyone could be less expensive if companies just charged no more than what it cost to make the product or provide the service. If you don't like banks or other companies making money, don't support them yourself. Don't buy a hamburger at McDonalds, don't buy a car, don't buy a house, don't go to the doctor, because everything everywhere costs money of which a portion is going either to profit, or is not going to reduce the cost to the consumer. Hopefully there are enough government programs with free help for you to get by the rest of your life. Good luck with that!

  • BLAME BELONGS ?
  • Posted by For the FAO and Student on July 23, 2007 at 9:35pm EDT
  • Mr Loan Justice, isnt it in Entrance Counseling where the student is told about not borrowing too much loan debt? Don't they have to go thru this before they can take out a loan? Pretty sure it is a federal regulation from all I have seen. It is horrible that this student has this loan debt - horrible. But reality is reality and she has the debt. The lesson learned here can go with her throughout life and that is never to take out more loan money than you should. This is so typical that we blame everyone because we don't use the right judgement. We are Americans in credit card debt up the wazoo because we live the American dream of having the best of everything but can't afford it. We are an obese society because we have fast food on every corner and we do not use any control. Ok I digress. However, even Michael Moore in his latest film said in his quest regarding American's health care, he was being a hypocrite by not taking care of himself. So, he went on a diet and began to exercise daily. When do we take responsibility for our own decisions? Why does it have to be someone elses fault?
    I have not seen one post on here where you have tried to help Alyssa. You have only slammed the lenders on here. Where is your great advice? At least the FAO here was a realist and said the reality was that she had to pay off this debt. If you have a better way out for her then how about enlighten us all. We would all like to know if you have another way out other than the BS on a web site. At least as I look at your web site, that is all I see. I don't see one thing out there that will help the students with their burdens. It seems it is a beotch blog site. If you don't have answers that are really going to do anything and help them, you are just wasting space.
    I have no ties to banks nor FAO's. I do however hear students everyday blaming everything and everyone about bad decisions they have made. I found the FAO's statement interesting and to the point. It made sense to me. Parents are a big part of the problem. They don't help their kids by taking out the PLUS loans; which is a much better loan than the alternative loans. They are over extended on credit cards, house payments, and new cars. Again, who's fault is that? I suppose you would say it is the banks since they were all willing to lend it to them?
    Please if you have a way out for Alyssa, let her know. The other stuff won't help her at all.
    Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

  • ALAN YOU ARE WRONG
  • Posted by FOR STUDENTS AND FAO on July 24, 2007 at 5:05am EDT
  • How dare you say that we as FAO's do not counsel students on not taking out so much loan debt; how dare you. You don't know one thing about our jobs. Have you ever worked in a financial aid office? If you have not, then you need to go work in one for a while and see what it is really like. I have been in aid for over 20 years and many students these days have caught on to the idea that they can live on their student loan credit balances. Every semester the first thing they are asking for is when do I get the credit from my student loan. The phones ring off the hook. That is why I asked Alyssa if she lived on her student loans. No matter what I say to them about having to pay this back some day, they don't care because they have to live right now. I get that, I really do. However, when the payment comes due, why is it the lenders fault; or in your statement the FAO? Lets say the financial aid office at the school she went to didn't do one thing to point out that she would have to pay back her loan some day. Well unless she was totally unaware of the fact that she was taking out a loan, pretty basic information is that one day you have to pay it back don't you think? A college education is one of the few things in life where a lender loans money to a student without a job and little to no credit history and just trust the fact that in 5 or 6 years they will get a job and be able to pay them back. Nothing else in life will ever work that way for anyone. Go ahead and try and drive a car off a lot, or take over a house and tell them that you will have a good job in 5 or 6 years and you can begin to start paying for it. Let me know if it works.
    If it doesn't, then we can get someone like you to open a web site where we can all sit on it and cry about the mess we are in.
    As far as Alyssa goes, there are lenders out there that will consolidate alternative loans. Maybe that would lower your monthly payment Alyssa. It might help as far as getting your payments reduced. I think Citibank and a couple others do alternative loan consolidations. Check into it and see if it will help. Many programs will also cut your interest rates by making on time payments etc. There is never any fees with this type of consolidation loan so don't be fooled by a lender trying to charge you. If you get one that is charging you, look for another one. I am talking about alternative consolidation lenders since I am assuming you meant that your total payments are because of alternative loan debt.
    How about you Alan, did you have any helpful information?

  • Sorry, Joe? How Dare I?
  • Posted by Alan Collinge , Founder at Studentloanjustice.org on July 24, 2007 at 6:00pm EDT
  • To Joe:

    Are you sorry that you and your friends have, for all intents and purposes, hijacked Congress over the past 20 years, and convinced it to remove all standard consumer protections from student loan debt?

    Are you sorry that defaulted loans are now a huge money maker for Sallie Mae and the various "non profit" guarantors and collection companies?

    Are you sorry that even the federal government makes a twenty percent return for every dollar it pays out in default claims?

    Are you sorry that the cost of college has outpaced inflation 2 to 1 for over 20 years running?

    No. You're not. In fact, I would guess that you're pinching yourself.

    The only thing you're truly sorry about is the fact that your buddies no longer control Congress.

    The simple truth is that student loans are the most oppressive debt instrument in our Nation's History thank to you and your friends. Sounds overly dramatic, I know. Nonetheless, it is true.

    What other type of loan is it impossible to refinance? What other type of loan is it impossible to file bankruptcy against?

    What other type of loan is there no statute of limitations? What other type of debt has language specifically exempting lenders from adherence to fair debt collection practices?
    What other type of debt allows citizen's state licenses to be suspended, income tax seized, Social Security and Disability income attached- all without a court order?!

    What other type of debt has a network of state agencies set up specifically for collecting penalties and fees on top of the debt when a student falls behind?

    What other type of publicly guaranteed loan is forcing decent citizens to go off the grid, flee the country, and worse?

    None.

    Even the IRS is willing to negotiate with debtors undergoing financial hardship, and often settles for less than the tax, nevermind the penalties and interest...and that is for TAX CHEATS.

    You bankers not only got BK taken off the table for public loans, but also snuck similar language in for private loans and you know it.

    The gig is up, Joe, and we the borrowers, aren't going to stand for it any longer. we're not kids anymore, we're in our 30s, 40's, and well beyond in many cases. You can't fool us.

    To FSAF: I do know a thing or two about your profession. I know that "entrance counseling" usually consists of a webpage that takes 5 minutes to read, check the boxes on, and forget. And then there are the entrance conseling sessions that you guys have farmed out to the lenders to perform, while hocking their wares.

    I also know that of the dozens of students I have randomly interviewed, only a small fraction of whom could even answer the most basic questions about their loans, such as who their lenders were, whether the loans were public or private, and what the interest rate was.

    I also know that your professional organizations are highly dependent on funding from lenders to exists. I have looked at the conference advertisements, I have perused the websites, looked at the leadership committees. I know. You know. We all know.

    And I also know - this conversation serving as prime evidence (in fact), that you financial aid administrators regularly side with the lenders, and 10 to 1 use disparaging comments when talking about the students that you serve.

    How Dare I? How dare you! How dare you claim to be on the side of the borrower when in fact you identify far more closely with the lenders.

    If I were an FAA, I would kick all of the lenders off campus, and demand competitive bids for the right to lend money to my students. Further, I would only associate with professional organizations that didn't allow lenders to fund them, or participate in their activities. I would only participate in professional organizations that lobbied for the protection of the interests of the students- not walk in lockstep with the lenders as we have seen. Further, I would push my university to use their endowment to end student loans.

    I would probably last about a week at most universities, but at least I would be able to say that I was fulfilling my job description.

  • A Broad Brush
  • Posted by Kevin on July 24, 2007 at 6:10pm EDT
  • Alan,

    Thank you for painting me with your broad brush.

    As per your suggestion to retire, I would love to. But considering that I am trying to be responsible and pay back my student loans (which were in fact direct loans...just in case you care) and am only 27, I think I'll probably be working for a spell longer.

    Also, I was not yet a part of the lending community when the legislation you mentioned above was passed, so I’m probably not as qualified as you make me to speak to all of the details.

    But while I'm far from an expert on the ins and outs of the entire process, it would seem to me, that since the government has a significant financial interest in making sure that the loans they underwrite don't default, the idea of taking steps to make sure that the burden of paying for these potentially higher risk loans, should the borrower encounter financial difficulties (such as bankruptcy), do not fall to the taxpayer seems like it might make both political and actual sense. A rarity, to be sure.

  • Standard Consumer Protections for Student Loans
  • Posted by Alan Collinge , Founder at Studentloanjustice.org on July 25, 2007 at 12:00pm EDT
  • If you're not qualified to discuss the issues I raised,Kevin, then perhaps you should consider this as a primer:

    The federal government invests in a very wide array of guaranteed loan programs. Farm Loans, Agriculture loans, Small business Loans, VA Loans, etc. None of these instruments have associated with them the same lack of consumer protections as student loans. Nowhere even close.

    I should say, here, that in addition to the standard consumer protections not available for student loans that I stated above, I forgot to mention that the HEA exempts student loans from state usury laws. Yet another consumer protection to bite the dust as a result of HEA amendments.

    Regarding bankruptcy: The fact that BK was taken off the table in the first place was based largely on anecdotal stories of students graduating, and then promptly filing for bankruptcy upon graduation solely to escape their student loan debt. These stories were promulgated by the lending industry, and hyped by the press. To date, no quantitative data exists to support the claim that this ever happened in statistically significant proportions.

    Most people feel that bankruptcy is a last-resort, painful, shameful act. I doubt seriously that people would so gladly throw their credit, reputations, etc. out the window for the simple purpose of escaping student loans.

    The fact that Sallie Mae, the Consumer Banker's Association, and others were able to get PRIVATE loans exempted from bankruptcy in 2005 only proves that their weight in Congress is far greater than any other lending industry inside the beltway, and completely out of balance with reality. It brings into question the original decision to exempt federal student loans from bankruptcy in the first place, frankly.

    One needs only look at Sallie Mae's own books to confirm that this lack of consumer protections has led to abuse. Between 2001-2005, Sallie Mae's loan portfolio grew by about 68%, while its "Fee income" had increased by an astounding 107% This fee income is largely from collections on defaulted loans, according to Albert Lord in the 2003 annual report.

    We need common sense fairness for borrowers for the first time in well over a decade. People don't deserve to have their livelihoods ruined for the sake of lenders fee income.

    If this were nickel and dime stuff, I wouldn't be here. But its not. Its financial ruin for millions. Thus, I AM here, and will be continue this effort until it is fixed. Unlike you, nobody pays me to do this, except in extremely modest donations. That should should be quite a telling fact.

    Lets be honest: the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill contains safeguards sufficiently stringent to ensure that fraud and abuse doesn't take place. It's not a "walk away" proposition for the majority of debtors.

    Study up on this for a bit, Kevin. Do your own independent analysis. Talk to your mentors at Sallie Mae (or wherever it is that you work) and above all, don't be ashamed too proud to contact me anytime to continue the discussion offline. My email is justice@studentloanjustice.org.