News, Views and Careers for All of Higher Education
Sept. 25, 2007
It wouldn’t have made the most gripping episode of “COPS.” Cambridge police officers late last week responded to a call from a historic bookstore about three Harvard University students who refused to leave. They were ... writing down identification numbers of textbooks with the intention of sharing that information with the public.
And now, the principal players are at odds about the root of the spat. The students, two of whom are behind a Web site that allows visitors to compare book costs, say the bookstore wants to prevent them from amassing a database of ISBN numbers. Jerry P. Murphy, president of the Harvard Coop, says the case is about students disrupting the flow of business in his store.
When the Harvard students created the Web site, Crimson Reading, more than a year ago, the idea was to provide students an easy way to compare prices of texts sold at the Coop with those sold through online sites such as Amazon and eCampus.
Some students have contributed to the site by jotting down the identification numbers of books they see — and often buy — at the store.
Jon Staff, director of the site, said that since the bookstore began cracking down on ISBN trackers earlier this semester, students have complied with the Coop’s requests to stop or leave. Last week’s episode began when he and the two other students didn’t follow that direction.
The trio was still copying book numbers when an officer arrived on the scene. What happened next is a point of contention. Staff said the officer who came to the bookstore left after speaking with an employee or manager and without talking to the students, who continued their note taking. James DeFrancesco, a police spokesman, said the students left shortly after the police arrived. No charges were filed.
According to Staff, his conversation with a store employee was about the morality and legality of copying the ISBN numbers. The bookstore’s argument, he said, had come down to ownership of the information.
“This sheds light on the intellectual property debate,” Staff said. “Everyone realizes that ISBN numbers are facts that cannot be copyrighted.”
Jonathan Band, a lawyer who deals with technology law and policy, says that although the store, under state property laws, has the right to control what people do within its premises, “the notion that they have an intellectual property right in this case is just wrong.”
Murphy, who was not on hand during last week’s dispute, said he has never claimed the ISBN numbers were the store’s intellectual property, but that the list of titles given to the bookstore by professors is “an asset of ours.”
“We don’t have a policy against writing down numbers, but we do have a policy against disrupting the course of business,” he said. “If groups take up space and prevent others from shopping, it can be grounds [for ejection].”
The students don’t dispute that the Coop has the right to set its own in-store conduct policies, but they vehemently deny that they were getting in anyone’s way.
Adam Goldenberg, a Web site staff member who was one of the three students asked to leave the bookstore, said that Murphy is contradicting himself about the store’s policy. The Coop president was quoted in a Harvard Crimson article saying that “we discourage people who are taking down a lot of notes.”
Murphy reiterated his stance on students writing down information and said he isn’t trying to stifle the Web site.
“Students have and always will take down information,” he said. “We know they do this, and they should if they are unclear about what they want. From our point of view, we offer convenience to students and easy returns, but students should look around. We have a mission to serve the students, and the university has had faith for years that we fulfill this mission.”
But Goldenberg said the Coop’s practice of preventing people from gathering the ISBN numbers is hurting students. The site no longer makes it a regular practice of including the Coop’s book price on the Web site, he said, because that information is too hard to gather.
“We have no problem with Coop; we do our own book shopping there,” Goldenberg said. “We think they have unjustifiably high prices on some titles, but Harvard students should have the chance to check for themselves. Coop only stands to benefit from their own customer base knowing the prices, because sometimes they do have the lowest price.”
Crimson Reading has recorded at least $34,000 in total revenue this semester by routing students to other online vendors, which give the site a portion of the proceeds. Staff said all profits go to a charity benefiting Zambia.
The advent of e-commerce sites has no doubt hurt business at college book stores, which rely heavily on recouping costs of obtaining books. Charles Schmidt, a spokesman for the National Association of College Stores, declined to comment on the Harvard case, saying the store is a member.
Jarret Zafran, one of the students who refused to leave, said the students intended — and still intend — to test the store’s policies. Other Harvard students have already promised to continue tracking down the ISBN numbers in future semesters, he said.
“This is about free enterprise,” said Zafran, who isn’t affiliated with the Crimson Reading site. “I don’t debate their right to charge what they want. The problem is when they try to gouge students and crack down on the competition they do face from online sites.”
But both Staff and Goldenberg said the objective isn’t to get into a knock-down drag-out with the bookstore. As it stands, Harvard faculty provide their book lists from their syllabuses directly to the store. The students’ hope is that the university would consider providing a centralized database open to everyone so that information on book titles and numbers is made available earlier.
The students say they have floated the idea to the university to no avail, but a Harvard spokesman said he is unaware of any such proposal.
“The administration is inclined not to rock the boat with its long-term relationship with the Coop, which we think disadvantages students,” Goldenberg said.
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The best that I have found for price comparisons is, http://www.fetchbook.info , although it seems to like the long-ISBN the best.
Glen McGhee, FHEAP, at 8:45 am EDT on September 25, 2007
One would think with an endowment the size of the GNP of some smaller countries students at Harvard would get their books for free.
mc, at 8:55 am EDT on September 25, 2007
The Harvard Coop started out as more of a service to students, and is not part of the well-endowed University. I can still remember getting an end-of-the-year rebate from them, as a member. But trying to keep a lid on this information seems doomed to failure. The books are there for anyone to open and read.
George Wittenberg, Asst. Prof. at University of Maryland, at 9:50 am EDT on September 25, 2007
http://www.addall.com/ was recommended to me by a librarian friend several years ago.
Thrifty Bibliophile, at 9:50 am EDT on September 25, 2007
Has it occurred to any of the students who complain about the bookstore’s prices that the online sites have an unfair competitive advantage because they don’t have to pay any taxes on book sales?
Sandy Thatcher, Director at Penn State Press, at 11:20 am EDT on September 25, 2007
ISBN’s are public info that can be obtained at any decent Library. The students evidently find it easier to go to the bookstore to get that info. The store has a perfect right to resist. The students are involved in a money making operation. Let them do their own research. The Coop has no obligation to assist its competitors.
Brian, at 11:20 am EDT on September 25, 2007
Long ago I stop purchasing my texts from the campus bookstore as I often found better deals elsewhere.
As a former Higher Ed professional I always encourage students to be more resourceful in funding their education. May I suggest using you camera phone to take down the ISBN numbers. It is much quicker — get in, get out.
Edwards Hall Dean, at 11:20 am EDT on September 25, 2007
Good for the enterprising students who are attempting to circulate publicly available information among their colleagues.
Their website has a good deal of information and should be a model for student-led initiatives at other universities.
Grad Student, ABD at A top 15 R1, at 11:20 am EDT on September 25, 2007
I teach a freshmen survey course in communications. Publishers seem to come out with new editions two or three times a year for this kind of course. Since our students receive little recompense during book buy-back week, I usually only change editions every third semester. You had better believe that I encourage students to buy a used copy of the textbook at $5-$7, rather than pay our bookstore $83 for a new copy. I even send students the title, edition, author and ISBN information weeks before the class starts, with a list of online sites. To me, the bookstore’s prices are unreasonable; sort of like having to buy a $10 aspirin when you’re in the hospital just to prop up the profits for the board of directors. I have no apologies to make for encouraging students to avoid “the system.” And I don’t think these students should have any qualms about what they are doing.
The Professor, at 1:00 pm EDT on September 25, 2007
Brian,The ISBNs are not the issue. ISBNs can easily be obtained online. The critical information is which books are required for which classes.
Mike, at 1:00 pm EDT on September 25, 2007
I wish more professors would reconsider whether the latest edition of text books are really necessary. In a current course, I e-mailed the prof prior to the class to ask if I could use the previous edition of the book. Thankfully, he agreed. The cost of the “new” edition? $85. The cost of a used copy of the previous edition? Four bucks.
Amy, Student, at 2:05 pm EDT on September 25, 2007
Anyone interested in the ISBN (long or short) of a book can find it on www.loc.gov. This is the site at the Library of Congress, open to everyone at no cost whatsoever. The ISBN is useful in that it pinpoints a book (a specific edition) which one needs to find. ABEBOOKS.com can be searched by ISBN numbers, making it very easy to locate a used copy of the required text.
I am happy to see some other sources, and will certainly look them over for possible use in locating and purchasing inexpensive textbooks for our College next semester. Many thanks to those who contributed those websites!
Here at the Wind River Tribal College, the Librarian has the assignment to purchase the required textbooks for our students (from ABEBOOKS.com, mostly). At the end of the semester, these textbooks are returned to the Library’s Textbook Collection. Ninety percent (90%!) of the cost is returned to the student. Abebooks has been a wonderful source for used or nearly-new items. We at WRTC sincerely believe that enabling students to pursue a college education means finding creative (always thoroughly legal!) means to cut the cost. Still a shoestring college, WRTC is expecting to achieve accreditation in another year or two. We will become the 38th tribal college in USA/Canada, and the very first in the state of Wyoming. We are on the Wind River Indian Reservation, home to the Eastern Shoshone and the Northern Arapaho nations.
Helen Z. Knudsen, Librarian / Textbook Procuress at WIND RIVER TRIBAL COLLEGE, at 3:00 pm EDT on September 25, 2007
Publishers are making a killing off of colleges. They jack up the price, that price gets forwarded to the universities, and the student is the one who ultimately pays for $180 text book that changed a paragraph and call it a revised addition. I am a college student who cannot afford the insane amount being charged for books so I say hats off to professors and instructors who will provide that information to students. Tuition is expensive enough, not to mention dorm rooms, food, etc. Just the basics at a school where a student is only eligible for student loans is high enough. Why add to their debt when you can go online and buy a $180 text book for $20? I know the school needs to make a profit, but not only is the school making money, but the publisher as well, most often times for changing little things like a page or a paragraph.
Valerie, at 8:45 pm EDT on September 25, 2007
With four children going through the university process, I have refused to support the university run text book business — otherwise known as “gouging". My children have become experts on searching by ISBN for their needs. I find the textbook industry repellent — conveniently packaged limited knowledge is not what higher education should be endorsing.
Liz Evans, at 2:15 pm EDT on September 26, 2007
The congressional study found students spend $900 annually on textbooks and materials for their courses. Why the uproar over $900 when tuition is going up by that much or MORE every year? Our society wants everything for nothing and wants it now. What happens to those students when they graduate only to find out their jobs are in Asia?
Nothing is more expensive than ignorance.
Scooby, at 7:25 pm EDT on September 26, 2007
I have been in the publishing business for over ten years, and there are definitely some misconceptions. Bookstores/Websites normally receive a 50% discount on NEW texts, which they generally mark-up 50%. A publisher will only make money on NEW texts, so when the book is used for several years, the bookstore/websites continually make money on that text, not the publishers. Publishers spend several years developing a text, paying an author commission on sales, rights for photos and artwork, salary for editors/copywriters, production/printing costs, and paying sales reps to distribute free copies to instructors in the hopes they will use the texts. All textbooks also provide instructor resources FREE to the instructor which provides all their lessons plans, syllabus, test bank, PowerPoint slides, etc. This items are demanded by the instructors, and the publishers have to provide these which are expensive to print and also develop. (And we have to keep providing them free even when the books are used, and we have not seen a dime on a new book in two years. Many large classes have at least 30 new instructors EVERY semester, so we have to provide them 30 sets free again, and again—and we have to absorb the cost.) As a former starving college student, I feel your pain, but your textbooks are a small percentage of your college costs. Does anyone question why tuition costs double or triple the amount of inflation every year? Why are instructors/professors paid six-figure salaries to teach one or two classes often times with material developed by publishers for free? Publishers provide an important service to the education community, and without publishers taking risks on publishing texts, who would develop all these materials? (Not the person teaching your class...) And shame on any instructor or professor (many of whom also author textbooks), who encourage students to not buy a text or worse, sell their own complimentary review textbook back to a bookstore or wholesaler to get money for something they received for free. (Which means one less book a publisher can sell.) Publishers should be allowed to make a profit, and the everyday folks working in publishing aren’t getting rich at the expense of college students—if anything, its harder than ever to make a profit...
Deborah, at 12:00 pm EDT on October 4, 2007
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The bookstore’s (all college or university bookstores) mission is to take student’s money, not serve students, and the university gets its cut of the profits. Anyone believing differently does not understand the business.
LH, at 7:15 am EDT on September 25, 2007