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Oct. 15, 2007
Schwarzenegger Vetoes DREAM Bill for Immigrant Students
Late Saturday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger issued a series of vetoes on various bills — and in so doing dashed the hopes of student activists who have been pushing to make it easier for undocumented students to obtain financial aid and to pressure publishers and faculty members into changing practices that some believe contribute to the high price of textbooks. At the same time, Governor Schwarzenegger signed another bill on textbooks, favored by publishers and opposed by student groups.
Related stories
- Demographic Boom and Bust, March 20
- Communication and Comfort Across Ethnic Lines, March 13
- Post-DREAM Strategies, Oct. 29, 2007
- Where the Hispanic Students Are (And Aren’t), Aug. 17, 2007
- An In-State Tuition Debate, Feb. 28, 2007
Immigrant Students
Last year, when Schwarzenegger vetoed legislation that would have allowed some undocumented students to apply for state financial aid, he cited the fear that these students might be competing for limited aid funds with students who are legal residents of California. So this year, sponsors of the bill specifically excluded programs that have limited pots of money, and proposed that the idea apply to aid — like community college tuition waivers — that is not awarded competitively. Advocates for immigrant students hoped that that change would make a difference and held rallies around the state on behalf of the bill.
But the governor’s position didn’t change. In his veto message this time, he didn’t cite competition in specific aid programs for dollars, but competition for the state budget. “At a time when segments of California public higher education, the University of California and the California State University, are raising fees on all students attending college in order to maintain the quality of education provided, it would not be prudent to place additional strain on the general fund to accord the new benefit of providing state subsidized financial aid to students without lawful immigration status,” he wrote. Schwarzenegger noted that under existing law, many of these students are already entitled to in-state tuition rates.
Supporters of the legislation noted that there are about 25,000 students who graduate from California high schools each year without documentation to stay in the United States or the right to federal student aid that is essential for many low-income students to afford tuition and other expenses. State Sen. Gilbert Cedillo maintains on his Web site stories from such students about the difficulties they face paying for college. He and others have argued that these high school graduates will stay in the state — and the only choice for California is whether to help them prepare for good jobs.
The vetoed legislation is known as the DREAM Act, modeled on other state bills and a federal bill whose acronym stands for Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors. (Democrats in Congress are hoping to attach the federal bill to other legislation, but have been stymied of late in doing so.)
With the issue attracting attention nationally, political figures outside of California have jumped in. Sen. Barack Obama, in a presidential campaign stop in California last month, said that failing to sign the bill would “compound the immigration crises by driving thousands of children who are on the right path into the shadows.” But conservatives have been urging the governor to veto the bill.
Pro-DREAM groups were quick to criticize the veto and to vow to bring the bill back next year. “The governor has just bowed to the racist wing of the Republican Party. California needs a larger and more diverse workforce to prosper and we can’t continue to relegate Latinos to second class status,” said Yvette Felarca, Northern California coordinator of the Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration and Immigrant Rights and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary.
Debate Over Textbook Costs
The governor’s decision on textbook prices may have implications beyond California. Publishers tend to adopt policies that are consistent with legislation or practice in large states. So had the governor signed the bill he vetoed, the required practices could have spread.
The bill would have required publishers to provide to faculty members a complete list of products they offer “that are germane to the subject area of interest,” the prices for those products, and “the estimated length of time that the publisher intends to keep that product on the market, and a complete list of all substantive differences or changes made between the current edition and the most recent previous edition of the textbook.”
The bill signed into law by the governor will instead require publishers to include more pricing information on book covers, to provide more detailed pricing information to those placing orders, and it will require public colleges “to encourage adopters, with course material selection responsibilities to place their orders with sufficient lead time, whenever possible, to enable the university-managed bookstore or contract-managed bookstore to confirm the availability of the requested materials.” The new law also bars those picking textbooks from accepting anything of value for their choices.
In his veto message, Governor Schwarzenegger said that the first bill “focuses strictly on textbook publisher policies and fails to recognize that the affordability of textbooks is a shared responsibility among publishers, college bookstores and faculty members.”
Bruce Hildebrand, executive director for higher education at the Association of American Publishers, praised the governor’s decision. “It’s important that we all work together on this,” he said. Hildebrand said that the bill signed into law would lead to “complete transparency by all the parties involved.”
The vetoed bill, he said, implies that publishers have all the power, when the reality is that individual professors are making the choices, and are considering a variety of factors in addition to cost.
“The faculty make the ultimate decision, as they are supposed to do, based on their students’ needs,” he said. The 200-plus choices available to professors teaching introductory psychology range in price from around $22.50 to more than $120, Hildebrand said. “The choices are there. The faculty are making the choices. The whole key to this is: Is there choice and is there value?”
Advocates for the vetoed bill said that its provisions might have prompted real change. If professors could see that one potential textbook wasn’t due for a revision for six years, for example, while another was a being revised every other year, they could pick the former, which would have a healthy and inexpensive used book market. Professors who want to make it possible for students to buy used books have a tough time getting information to make informed choices, these advocates says.
Emily Rusch of the California Public Interest Research Group said that the bill the governor signed would be “really ineffective” because it doesn’t get enough information to professors before they have made their selections. Used textbooks are a key tool for students wanting to economize, Rusch said, and the bill signed into law won’t help make them more available.
“The governor sided with the textbook publishers and not with the students and colleges and faculty,” she said.
PIRG groups have led the push for legislation on textbook costs, and their focus has been on publishers. College bookstores in California backed the student push for the bill Schwarzenegger vetoed.
Don Newton, bookstore manager at City College of San Francisco, monitored the legislation for the California Association of College Stores, and said that the bill the governor signed will do “absolutely nothing” because its provisions are already either standard practice or loopholes will weaken them.
The vetoed bill, he said, would have led to real change. “We see publishers trying to sell faculty without letting them know that the next year they are going to a new edition,” he said.
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Comments
Who’s the ‘racist?’
” .. The governor has just bowed to the racist wing of the Republican Party ..”
Berkeley gets over 35,000 first-time applicants. Only approximately 8,000 are admitted.
So — the legal resident applicant of Asian and Mexican descent (my college roommate’s kid) should have more, unanticipated competitors to deal with?
Does the Democrat Party have a “racist” wing of its own? Hmm ...
L.L., at 9:50 am EDT on October 15, 2007
Textbooks
As bad a textbook prices are, our international students tell us consistently year after year that textbook prices are significantly lower (sometimes 50% less) in their home countries. Our international students are completely unprepared for the “sticker-shock” they get at our bookstore. Does anybody know why textbooks are so much more expensive in the US?
Janet, at 10:00 am EDT on October 15, 2007
Textbook Prices
Textsbooks in many foreign countries are cheaper because governments subsidize publishing them. One of those places where the American fetish of the free market does not serve the social good.
Of course, some foreign countries allow the widespread piracy of intellectual property, which is also a way to keep prices low.
Ann Arc, at 10:25 am EDT on October 15, 2007
Who’s the Racist?
Such an easy question, L.L.
Ann Arc, at 11:15 am EDT on October 15, 2007
textbook prices
The materials sent to law professor do not include the prices for anything. The catalogues with which we are showered are bereft of price information, as are the promotional letters and emails introducing new editions.
Would including the prices affect my decision about which materials to order? Waht concerns me the most in selecting teaching materials are that they are accurate, reasonably up-to-date, reasonably user-friendly (well edited in the case of court opinions so that students can actually figure out what the case is about from what the casebook author has left in — this is a big criterion, as some books terribly over-edit the materials), and cover the topics I want to cover in my course without my need to prepare lots of supplementary materials.
If one of the array of books available for a given course was significantly less expensive than the others, I suspect — given the small number of casebook publishers that control this market — that the reason would be it’s older, less widely adopted, and that there are substantive reasons for that.
But it would be a useful bit of additional data to have.
Art Leonard, Professor at New York Law School, at 12:45 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Playing the race card so quickly does not help in the least. It merely sets up barriers to discussions. People should realize that one can oppose illegal immigration and not be a racist just as one can oppose Isreali policies without being anit-semetic. Playing that card in either case is cheap, easy and all too often just plain wrong.
JackL, Cheap answers, at 1:35 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Ann, one of the problems with your answer regarding text books is that it is not subject to free market forces. Read the article and you may notice that professors have a wide range of prices to choose from.
Professors like us select titles and the govenment, through copywrite laws, limit the supply.
What prices do you choose for the titles in your courses?
JackL, at 1:35 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
When WILL this immigration issue be resolved through our beloved Congress? How much more pain do they want to see right here in our country before they will ACT to ease the terrible racial tension erupting across the country? States should not be making these decisions, and neither should counties—not unless we want race riots and hatred that, is. And it seems like that’s what some of these politicians dream to stir up.
kgotthardt, at 1:45 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
left out a line
Sorry, I should have added a line that Professors aren’t driven my market forces since it is not our dime being spent.
We may have ethical forces driving us, but not market forces.
Jack L, at 2:05 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Jack L, you make a good point about the market. In many countries in Europe and Latin America, government subsidizes the production of textbooks and supports publishers in general. But in the US, many professors are blithely ignorant of the price of books. Since most of the books I order are available commercially, I usually check on Amazon to find the price. And I try to balance the needs of the syllabus against the price of the book(s).
Ann Arc, at 2:50 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
So many people think that used textbooks are the solution to the high price of textbooks, but in many ways used book sales are the problem! Publishers are in the business of making money from selling books, and no one should have a problem with that. What do you think used textbooks do to publishers? Rather then getting a fair amount of profit from each student that uses the text, Publishers have to make their money from the first person that buys the book, knowing that this book will probably be used by many students. They know that they won’t make a dime off of the 10 students that buy the book used, so they jack up the prices so that the poor kid that gets stuck buying the book new has to pay for everyone. Who wins with used books? The bookstore wins! Not the student, and not the publisher or the author! Used books are not the solution.
Phil, Textbooks, at 2:50 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Technology will force prices down
The textbook publishers have a virtual monopoly on the market and the schools and professors have very little they can do to drive prices down. Demand has been more or less the same for many years and textbook publishers carefully manipulate the supply. The only thing that is going to force textbook prices down is new technology and new competitors in the market. www.eTAP.org publishes an online textbook that is catching on in California K12 schools. Based on current volume, eTAP.org offers their interactive multi-media textbook for about $10 per student, but these prices will eventually be $1 per student. The more people opt for these textbook alternatives, the more available they will become. It is unconscionable that students are forced to pay $100 for a physical textbook that is created in electronic form and can be distributed as such.
John Burgess, at 2:50 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Dream Act
I am glad to see that Arnold vetoed the “Dream Act". It is not a racist thing, it is a citizenship issue. If illegal immigrants want assistance, I suggest that they apply to their country of origin for these funds. Why should illegals jump to the head of the line, much less be in line at all for the precious and limited funds provided by US Taxpayers? Answer — They shouldn’t! The illegals were edcated by US Taxpayers K-12 Free. It should end there.
Anyone who calls this a racist issue is themselves a racist!
John G, at 3:50 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
LL and John G- Racism?
Hmmm... LL- it should be noted that that the DREAM Act has nothing to do with the admissions process. Students can apply to Berkeley and must get in with the same system used for the population at large. Once admitted, the DREAM Act would have enabled them to access state funds- which are appropriated based solely on financial need. The kids who would benefit would have needed to come to CA by age 15 and graduate from a CA high school. These are under-age students who came here with their families, excelled academically and are looking to find a way to make the US their permanent home. These are the kids we want to encourage to stay- especially as graduation rates nationwide remain stagnant and we can see a horizon where we will need more educated citizens. John G.- I believe that some republicans and democrats are motivated by racism. In fact, I have felt racism first-hand. How, exactly, does that make me a racist?
MM, at 5:15 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Selfishness, not racism
John G (for “greed"?):You’re right: opposing the Dream Act is not a racist matter. It is a matter of the me, me, me “values” of so many conservatives. They cry about illegality, which is mainly BS, a front to cover their “We’ve got ours, and screw everyone else” attitude. They deplore illegality (Oh my!) unless it favors them or what they favor, as seen in the disregard of legality by the present administration. I tire of the hypocrisy and self-righteousness of the Right.
David, prof. emeritus at USC, at 8:35 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
DREAM Bill or whatever they call it
Financial aid for “illegal aliens?” The very thought is outrageous. The whole idea of giving finacial aid to “illegals” is treasonous, unConstitutional, and overtly illegal. These politicians who are in favor of such a treasonous act should be “booted” from his/her political office and stripped of his/her “golden parashute” of a government pension. We are supposed to be a sovereign nation; a nation of the people, by the people, and for the people, yet too many of our elected officials be they Democrat or Republican are leaning in favor of a globalist/socialist system of government, and are willing to “trash” our Constitution “WITHOUT” the vote or will of the American people. Again, we have a government “run wild” such that the greater majority of our politicians are a “power” unto themselves and act without regard to our Constitution nor the American people. As for me...I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!
Rick Colombe, Bricklayer/stone mason at Univeraity of Minnesota, at 8:35 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Surprise! Arnold did the right thing for a change.
My “Dream Act” would be to build an impenetrable wall along the southern border and deport all illegal aliens, beginning with the criminal aliens.
James, Attorney-California, at 8:40 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Ones of the reasons textbooks cost so much is the same reason a toilet seat costs the Pentagon two million dollars; they’re spending someone else’s money. Publishers know most students are on type of financial aid, be it scholarships or student loans. Its a type of reverse subsidy. Instead of the government subsidizing the textbooks to make them cheaper, the students loans subsidize them to make them more expensive. Many textbook companies reward professors for choosing their books with kickbacks or some type of gift. This practice is very similar to the pharmaceutical companies that reward doctors for prescribing their drugs. Many professors like to think of themselves as being above and removed from the corruption of the capitalist marketplace, but universities are businesses after all. Also, why should a student from Mexico pay in-state tuition while an American citizen from another state must pay a higher out-of-state tuition cost? Is this not discrimination based on national origin? Why not just eliminate out-of-state tuition altogether? Because universities like the bling.
Chris, MA student at UTEP, at 11:00 pm EDT on October 15, 2007
Textbook prices
Our Governor is showing his pro-business, anti-education bias once again. He also vetoed a bill that would have brought transparency to the way the California State University system’s board of trustees gives themselves raises and huge salaries while raising student fees. As a lecturer in the CSU system, I never get the prices of books before I order them — prices are not printed in the exam copies I’m sent, nor are they listed in any catalogues I receive. Yes, I would order cheaper books if I knew the prices. No, I don’t have time to do a lot of research — the publishers should have to give us that information up front. By the way LL — it’s DEMOCRATIC party, not Democrat party. kp
Karen, at 4:25 am EDT on October 16, 2007
Schwarzenegger vetos the “nightmare” act
I think Schwarzenegger finally did something ‘right’ for the citizens of California. Why should they have to subsadize illegals & put them through college? 12 years(of high school) is more than they deserve. Send them all home.They have no ‘rights’ except to demand their rights from their home country. I’m tired of Americans being used by foreigners. Go home, illegal.
smartgirl, at 5:25 am EDT on October 16, 2007
“we can’t continue to relegate Latinos to second class status”
It is despicably racist to equate Latinos with illegal conduct.
JBM, at 5:30 am EDT on October 16, 2007
Wrong
” .. it should be noted that that the DREAM Act has nothing to do with .. admissions process ..”
This is flat-out wrong. For every student admitted to Berkeley, at two well-qualified applicants are rejected.
An application of basic math proves increasing the applicant pool increases the odds of rejection for those on the tail end of the distribution.
How can such a basic error in math happen?
H.J., at 8:10 am EDT on October 16, 2007
Absolutely!
“People should realize that one can oppose illegal immigration and not be a racist.” CORRECT! It is not a racial issue — it is a legal issue. We should not be extending any benefits to people here illegally! They should not even be allowed to attend our K-12 schools, but they do — at the taxpayers expense. One K-12 school near the border is having to pass a bond issue to pay for another school to be built to accomodate all the illegals that drive over everyday to bring their kids to our schools. That’s crazy!! I, too, want our country back!
Sandra, at 11:05 am EDT on October 16, 2007
I Want My Country Back
I want my country back, too. The one I was taught about in school, the one that said to the world, “Bring me your tired, your poor...” I don’t recognize this country full of snorting racist anti-immigrant pigs like the ones who have been posting in this discussion. It’s not the country I learned about in school, but maybe that country was an illusion. Just a dream that can’t withstand hatred & fear & selfishness & solipsism & idiocy.
Joseph Duemer, Professor, at 6:00 am EDT on October 17, 2007
Clever politics
Interesting how this is always spun as a democratic vs. republican issue. Yet, the republican president is more open-borders than anyone.
And if I lived in California, I wouldn’t appreciate Obama giving me his advice about how Californians should govern the state. Nor would I appreciate Obama constantly referring to this as a “children’s issue.” When logic isn’t on your side, go for the emotion. Always “for the children,” right?
That said, if the people of California believe it is in their best interest to use their state tax money to subsidize the higher education of illegal immigrants rather than that of legal residents, then we should respect that decision.
Laura, at 4:50 pm EDT on October 17, 2007
Yes Laura, we should respect the desires of the people of California to spend their tax dollars as they choose. Their LEGALLY elected representatives passed the legislation. And we should also respect the authority of their LEGALLY elected governor to exercise his LEGAL authority to veto any legislation that HE deems not to be in the best interests of those same citizens. If there is sufficient suppport in the legislative body, his veto could be LEGALLY overridden. Legally. Legal. Legal. Legal. That is what this is all about.
hj, at 8:50 am EDT on October 18, 2007
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Books
There was a line in this article that bothered me to the effect that it would be better to select an Introduction to Psychology book that will not be revised for six years versus one that is revised yearly. Personally, I would not want to use a textbook in this field that was not revised for six years as there is so much new research available using a wide range of new technology that material would become out of date prior to a new edition. However, every year is a bit much also as it is likely to have very little change in every revision. It is important that professors/staff find that middle ground to provide the best resource to their students and teaching staff at the best price.
Jody, at 8:30 am EDT on October 15, 2007