Dec. 5

Political Explosion on Undocumented Students

A recent legal memo from the North Carolina Community College System office broadening the definition of “open door” admissions sparked a firestorm across the state. Citing a 1997 state attorney general opinion that “denies colleges the authority to ‘impose nonacademic requirements on admissions,’” David J. Sullivan, assistant to the president for legal affairs for the system, wrote to the leaders of the 58 community colleges that, “notwithstanding any policy of the local board, colleges should immediately begin admitting undocumented individuals” as out-of-state residents.

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Many states are debating rules about in-state tuition rates for such students, but the North Carolina fight is over the right to enroll at all — even at full price. The system memo followed the revelation that 21 of the colleges were barring illegal immigrants, at least as of the last statewide count in 2005. The varying policies are the result of a 2004 state system memo that left the question up to local colleges.

The new directive has become political dynamite in the state, with the five leading Democratic and Republican candidates for governor condemning it within days of when it became public last week, and residents flooding the phone lines of their political and college leaders. “The directive issued by the North Carolina Community College System to mandate all community colleges across our state admit illegal immigrants as students simply ignores our immigration laws. If we ignore these laws, what other laws should we consider as unnecessary to obey?” State Senator Fred Smith, a Republican candidate for governor, said in his statement.

Meanwhile, the current governor, Michael F. Easley, a Democrat, defended the practice of admitting undocumented students who qualify and pay out-of-state tuition rates. And Martin Lancaster, the system president, released a statement Monday emphasizing the community colleges’ inclusive missions and stressing that the affected students, mostly brought to the United States by their parents as children, did not make the decision to come to the country illegally and most likely won’t be returning to their nations of origin. “To deny a significant portion of tomorrow’s workforce any higher education opportunities will not only hurt these young people who came to North Carolina through no fault of their own, but it will also significantly diminish their incomes forever. The consequences to North Carolina are reduced tax collections and potential payments for social services and incarceration long into the future.”

But where, amid all this debate, do the individual colleges that barred illegal immigrants in the past stand? The new memo after all stemmed from a case in which an undocumented high school student attempting to enroll in a community college through the state’s dual enrollment “Learn and Earn” program was initially denied, as a system spokeswoman, Audrey Bailey, explained. From among the system’s 271,000 degree-, diploma-, and certificate-seeking students, only 340 are undocumented.

At Raleigh’s Wake Technical Community College, which up until the recent directive maintained a policy of not admitting undocumented students, President Stephen Scott described its former approach as a pragmatic one. The North Carolina community college tuition rate for full-time non-residents – including undocumented students — is $7,464 per year, compared to $1,344 for in-staters. Illegal immigrants are ineligible for federal financial aid. “It was not presented to our board of trustees as an option for the simple fact that there were no students who were lining up to pay $7,000 to attend,” said Scott. “It was not an issue.”

At other colleges, however, it very much is. Eric McKeithan, president of Cape Fear Community College in Wilmington, said that the college had up until now maintained its policy of not admitting illegal immigrants for three reasons, one of them being overcrowding. Since the system directive, about 30 undocumented students have applied to his rapidly growing college, where he estimates from 800 to 1,000 students had to be turned away this fall. He’s come up with a simple formula to predict future enrollment: “If I build a new classroom that will hold 500 people, I’ll have a 500-person enrollment increase.”

“Regardless of what side you fall down on, there is the matter of, these people are undocumented aliens,” said McKeithan. “We have a local obligation to serve local folks first.”

Citing the popular nursing program, for instance, which accepts 90 students per year based on the quality of applications, and turns away hundreds, “Now under the new directive, I don’t see that we have a choice… If an undocumented alien ranks among the highest 90 people qualified and we let that person in, I can promise you there are going to be 200 or 300 [other] people whose families have been around for generations who have helped build this institution – it’s going to hurt that one person” not admitted.

“I don’t know if it’s a numbers game, it’s an emotional issue, it’s a political issue,” McKeithan said, adding that the college does intend to comply with the state directive. “I know the other side of the story and I empathize with kids whose families brought them here and they are unauthorized aliens. I empathize with that, but I think that’s where state legislatures and the Congress have to make decisions” rather than leave them to local discretion.
Meanwhile, at Rockingham Community College, over in Wentworth in a rural area near the Virginia line, President Robert Keys said he was happy to see the new statewide directive. “I think it’s the right thing to do, to clarify this on a system-wide scale. I think it came probably two or three years too late. But it’s better now than not at all,” Keys said Tuesday. Rockingham opened its doors to undocumented students just one year ago in 2006.

“What really prompted me to take a look at it was just the sheer numbers who were involved, the number of people coming into our county and our service area who had a need for educational services,” Keys said.

“There are people here who feel we’re doing the wrong thing, that we’re spending taxpayer money to educate people who aren’t citizens in the United States. On the other hand, the tuition they pay more than exceeds the state reimbursement so they’re paying their freight.” (The system estimates the cost of educating a community college student is $5,375 per year, about $2,000 less than the out-of-state tuition rate.) Keys added, however, that he’d like to see undocumented students – and non-resident students in general – eligible for in-state rates. (The issue of whether undocumented students should be eligible for in-state tuition rates is a debate unto itself).

“The cost is prohibitive,” agreed Lawrence Rouse, the president of James Sprunt Community College, a college in a heavily agricultural section of eastern North Carolina that already had a policy to admit undocumented students in place before the directive. “Once they are permitted to be admitted at the out-of-state rate, at least that opens the door up a little bit for them to get an adequate education. And if they’re going to be in the United States, we need everyone to be educated in order to be competitive,” Rouse said. “I think if you don’t do that then you’re relegating them to a permanent underclass.”

— Elizabeth Redden

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Comments

Gov. Easley

The 1997 state attorney general upon whose opinion this policy rests and the current governor, Michael F. Easley, who is defending the practice are in fact the same person. Easley was AG from 93-01.

justaguy, parent & taxpayer, at 7:15 am EST on December 5, 2007

Education and illegal aliens

I see no problem with a foreign born / foreign citizen paying full tuition for an education. The problem is with the legality of his or her residency. If the person is not legally in the USA and has not received a waiver of legal requirements for residency because of potential or real persecution in his or her native land, then the person should be deported back to his or her nation regardless of age or gender. If a law is ignored, and not enforced, then the law is useless. This law has nothing to do with education, and there is no guarantee that an illegal alien will be granted amnesty nor the right to apply for citizenship. Until that alien is granted the right to apply for and receive the privilege of living in the USA, that individual has no right to an education at any institution.

Dr Arthur Ide, at 8:15 am EST on December 5, 2007

Non-academic, huh?

I wonder if that ban on “non-academic” barriers would include failure to pay tuition. Or a rape conviction.

Why do I have this feeling that upon investigation we’re going to find out about all sorts of little “non-academic” barriers that everyone heretofore thought were just hunky-dory?

Stu Gittelman, at 8:20 am EST on December 5, 2007

undocumented students

As a long-time international student advisor, I had to swallow my anger at hearing about refusals to treat all students equally and the outcry against undocumented students.

After calming down, I would want to suggest on a practical level that schools should not be ICE cops. Our jobs are to educate, not adjudicate. Having worked with INS law just for interntional students for almost 20 years, I know the rules are complex, often depending upon context and a variety of ifs, ands and buts. Moreover, schools do not have the authority to declare someone undocumented or out of status. That decision IS made by ICE or immigration judges.

Finally, I worry that we talk about illegal people...people cannot be illegal, only acts can be illegal. I worry that the anger and xenophobia expressed can become here what it became elsewhere in the 1930’s.

Theron, at 8:45 am EST on December 5, 2007

Undocumented students

I want to support Theron’s comment regarding the inappropriateness of academic institutions attempting to enforce immigration regulations, as this task is clearly reserved for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). The rules are indeed complex, and determining whether someone may or may not have valid immigration status can in certain cases be most difficult, even for those of us who have worked with the immigration regulations as long as Theron and I have. And, in any case, that determination can only legitimately be made by the immigration authorities.

This is the reason many of us who are familiar with immigration regulations oppose local laws requiring police, landlords, and emergency service providers to determine whether those needing assistance or service are in the US legally. Similarly, academic institutions should also stay out of the immigration enforcement business.

Immigration enforcement may appear a great hot-button issue that seems to some to allow a “bright line” distinction: one clearly either is, or is not, here legally. Unfortunately, the actual situation is much more complex than it appears at first glance. Sadly, complexity and critical thinking are not often brought to bear in addressing immigration issues these days.

debsailor, at 9:40 am EST on December 5, 2007

Illegal Aliens Have Comitted Illegal Acts

I’ve heard this before, that “people cannot be illegal, only acts can be illegal.” Well, then, I suppose we need to stop referring to those people convicted of crimes as “criminals,” since only acts can be criminal, not people. How sweet! What other acts of reality do we want to do away with here in lala land?

Our job is to educate, not adjudicate? We have no problems telling students who don’t pay their bills that they can’t come back to school. We have no problem telling students who repeatedly destroy school property that they cannot come back to school. If someone tells a school administrator that an escaped convict is enrolled on campus, should that administrator refuse to call the police because we educate, not adjudicate? You’re correct, adjudication may not be our primary responsibility, but when an act of illegality comes to our attention it is our responsibility to notify the authorities whose responsibility it is to adjudicate and let them do their jobs. And YES, by the very definition of the word “illegal,” illegal aliens have either committed an illegal act or can reasonably be suspected of having committed such an act, and the proper authorities should be notified!

I would like to commend Dr. Ide above for his well-articulated comments (better than mine, I admit) but go one step further: not only is a law that is ignored and not enforced a useless law, the act of ignoring it or not enforcing it is very destructive to the rule of law that undergirds our civilization. Perhaps the rule of men or women (and certainly everyone would agree that the rule of “me") might be better than the rule of law, but I doubt it very seriously.

PA Man, at 9:40 am EST on December 5, 2007

High school but not college??

As a former high school counselor and now Independent counselor, I always found it baffling why we had to admit and educate every child regardless of citizenship status. They were “entitled” to the same services at the public school under no child left behind. For instance if they had a disability, they received the same special education services, if they wanted to take a dual enrolled class, they were allowed to do so. Now, they graduate from high school and want to obtain a higher degree and they encounter major road blocks!! Why is it they are allowed to attend public K-12 schools and not community colleges?

Lara Brown, at 9:45 am EST on December 5, 2007

Undocumented Students

Although the United States (U.S.) Supreme Court’s ruling in Plyler v. Doe (1982) supported access to education for undocumented immigrants through high school. Currently, federal laws do not prohibit these students from enrolling in public colleges and universities; however, undocumented students are expected to pay out-of-state tuition fees regardless of their in-state residency.

The impact of equipping a population already contributing to the state will increase the economic significance of immigrants. The perception of undocumented immigrants as a drain on the economy and abusers of resources has proven to be untrue. According to Lippman (2006) Undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy (p. 1).”

As this debate continues to rage on what is lost is the contribution of immigrants to this country. The events of September 11th launched this country into an anti-immigrant frenzy that has not dissipated criminalizing undocumented children, who’s population is estimated at 1.8 million. As we seek to fill gaps and admit foreign scientist and engineers we should consider investing in a population that is already here seeking to contribute to American society.

Wil Del Pilar, Ph.D. student at Penn State University, at 10:10 am EST on December 5, 2007

Theron makes a point, we are not judges, etc., but he also makes a mistatement of fact.

The individual is committing an offense (8 U.S.C. 1325, up to 2 years in prison) by remaining in the United States without authority.

If an accused rapist, sex offender, or other accused felon applied, would we want him or her on our campuses?

Any judgement is not based on the individual, but on the acts of the individual. As individuals, many (a large majority) are good, hard-working people. So are many other people that are accused of criminal activity.

Speaking of such individuals as illegal aliens is descriptive of their actions, in the same way that speaking of drunk drivers is descriptive of those actions.

It is a disservice to claim that speaking the truth about a group of people based on thier own actions is a throwback to the 1930s — it is just another way to attempt to reframe the discussion away from the illegal actions of the ‘undocumented’ aliens and smacks of political correctness.

In the higher education community, we should foster the open exchange of ideas. Claiming that people on one side of the exchange are trying to go back to the 1930s is not the way to do that.

TexasPoliSciGuy, at 10:10 am EST on December 5, 2007

Florida’s approach

Here is Florida’s rather nuanced approach to the “undocumented” student issue.

http://www.facts.org/html_sw/residencyGuidelines.html

My concern would be for oversight, and for determining how effectively the guidelines it has been implemented.

It certainly looks good on paper, but that doesn’t mean this is what actually happens at the level of the registrar’s office — especially if they aren’t well trained.

Glen S. McGhee, Dir., at Florida Higher Education Accountability Project, at 10:40 am EST on December 5, 2007

Community college- undocumented

The U.S. Constitution protects the rights of everybody in the country, regardless of their legal status. That includes the right to an education.

Lorena, at 11:30 am EST on December 5, 2007

Obvious solution

To those who claim, “the illegal immigration problem is too big,” there is an obvious solution —

Let those who want to study and work in the U.S. return to their home countries and apply for the appropriate permits there. Those in high demand will be processed quickly.

Further, there are more than enough legal workers in the U.S. After the ICE crackdown in Virgina, wages went up 15% for legal Americans.

And before they are forgotten — more than 1,000,000 persons overseas and in the U.S. are awaiting action on their U.S. citizenship applications. They have rights, too.

L.L., at 11:30 am EST on December 5, 2007

Uhh, no.

“The U.S. Constitution protects the rights of everybody in the country, regardless of their legal status. That includes the right to an education.”

Nope, sorry. There is no legal right for anyone articulated in US Constitution for a postsecondary education. There is a SCOTUS ruling for a “free and appropriate education” that gave that right to all citizens (esp children with special needs) and then the already mentioned 1982 ruling that provided access to undocumented immigrants.

Like it or not, at least at the federal level, postsecondary education is a privilege, not a right.

Randy, at 11:50 am EST on December 5, 2007

Mike Easley’s legal opinion wrong

When I arrived in North Carolina in 1988 from the North (yeah, I’m a Yankee), the percentage of illegal aliens could not be detected.

Today, the Tar Heel State appears to have been invaded. Estimates of the number of illegal aliens ranges between four to eight percent of the state’s population.

Eighth-generation North Carolinans now find themselves competing for public resources with those who think themselves above the law.

And what about the more than 1,000,000 people, in the U.S. and abroad, who are l-e-g-a-l-l-y awaiting action on their U.S. citizenship applications? This is so wrong, on so many levels, it is ridiculous.

For those who pooh-pooh the plight of native North Carolinans (and don’t donate a dime to help) —

Well, income taxes are part of civil law and paid without government supervision. Could withholding tax payments until this mess is fixed, be of “undocumented” assistance in resolving it?

Russ, at 12:05 pm EST on December 5, 2007

We are a nation of laws or we are not! Sugar coat it all you will, but illegal aliens are still illegal. They are subject to certain rights and relief under the law. The children of illegals born in this country are naturalized citizens of this country having all the rights and privileges accordingly. Illegal parents on the other hand made the choice to enter this country via illegal means. Committing an illegal act has consequences, but there are also atonement options as well. As an American if I break the law, I must make amends. Why is this different? We can’t uphold the laws for one group and dismiss the laws for another group because of the plight that they put themselves in. This may seem cold, but consider the lesson learned.

I belief in education. First lesson — Right and wrong... Doing the right thing is not always easy, there are consequences, but there are rewards also!

We can bend “Right” little and the lesson learned “Do what you will, there will never be adverse penalties, the rewards are yours for the taking. Enjoy!

Bill, Black and White made Gray, at 12:25 pm EST on December 5, 2007

“I belief in education.”

Best. Post. Ever.

rufus, at 1:25 pm EST on December 5, 2007

This is not a problem. The problem is administrators and legislators making it a problem to the taxpayer. Not one of us has a place to mark on our application or registration form that I am in illegal alien. Even those that DEMAND that we put our ssn down, nobody checks the ssn against some federal data base to insure validity. so a telehone number works well. And how many of us even bother to check residency status? This is a don’t ask, don’t tell situation. Unless the illegal is stupid enough to selfdisclose their status, no one will ever know! And you do not stay illegal by being stupid!And to Theron and Deb, your job as international advisors is to insure compliance to all the laws. Your glib responses are unethical, and probably illegal within your job. And probably grounds for dismisal from your college....

Greg, at 1:25 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Just wanted to say — RIGHT ON to PA Man, Dr. Ide, and many others who expressed what I (and many others) believe. The only way we will ever get a handle on this problem is to go through a period of (perhaps) more strict enforcement of immigration laws. Once we have re-established some semblance of control, then we, through the legislatures, can examine some changes to improve the process.

Frank, at 1:45 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Sugar Coat This!

Undocumented people are poor and are human beings. To treat them as vermin or pests to be disposed of may be fine with the KKK crowd, but not for humanitarians that still believe that all are created equal and endowed by their creator, not Dick Cheney, the KKK, the Bush US Government nor David Horowitz with certain inalienable rights. Those are for all humans, not just those who have a piece of paper to be human in your eyes.

On the other hand, illegal immigration soared under Bush’s misrule and the misrule of the Republican dominated Congress even in the years after 9/11. If Republicans really wanted to stop this instead of profiting from cheap labor, they could have done it at any time! They seem to want a permanent, undocumented worker class with no chance of social mobility, rights and recognition. In other words, Republican hypocrisy simply says, “Sweep the floors, harvest the vegetables, pick the fruit, and clean the houses as long as you don’t try to rise above poverty, staying here is just fine. Try to dream the American dream and we’ll rip your guts out!”

Nice, these right wing social conservatives. I guess Jesus stood for the same thing, right? They’re only “illegal” when its inconvenient!

Diogenes, at 1:50 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Given the vehemence of the discussion this subject doesn’t appear to be a black and white issue or is it? Many Mexican and Central Americn immigrants have fled their homeland because of socio-economic factors that do not permit them to feed their children. And can we please stop referring to undocumented immigrants as “illegal aliens” as if a UFO just dropped them from outer space into United State territory and they are subhuman.

P. Simon, at 1:50 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Dr. Ide’s Comment

Maybe Dr. Ide is a Powhattan or Cherokee Native American and is fully aware that his ancestors had no immigration laws. That’s why he’s OK with European and other squatters taking land (legally of course since the heathens didn’t know they needed immigration laws and lawyers) from the previous owners and many times murdering the original residents if they resisted!! But now some time has passed since we’ve stolen the land and WE DO HAVE LAWS that protect us from those who would act as our ancestors acted (and from which we still benefit!!!). Most of us learned history from books that left out a few of our (yes America’s) genocides and other attrocities. Pontificate all you want but we Americans didn’t gently ask for and receive the keys to the kingdom. We took them. So don’t be so righteously indignant about people trying to find a better life for themselves and their families since it has been and still is “the American way!!!”

Dr Notsofast, at 2:45 pm EST on December 5, 2007

As an undocumented high school student I truely do understand both sides of the “argument". Many times many of us do not see how we are affecting the ecomony, other individuals, the country, etc. I believe that a big problem when discussing “illegal immigrantion” people generalize. Not EVERY illegal immigrant is the same. Some of us DO want to be part of this amazing country. Some of us DO NOT want to cause problems. Some of us DO want to help the economy and other people, because legal or not, we see ourselves as an Americans.

I am currently a senior in high school, I have been applying to colleges, and I am SO GRATEFUL that I have the opportunity to pursue a higher education. And although I know I will most likely will NOT receive financial aid, I am happy to at least have the opportunity to make my dreams reality.

I just wished that people would understand that some of us just want an opportunity! THAT IS ALL!

I know that there is so much more to that...but I have hope that one day people will understand, and lend a hand to those who truely need it, legal or not.

Thank-you.

S.E, at 3:25 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Stealth issue for Dual Enrollment?

Dr Ide misses an important point — dual enrollment costs are typically carried by the local school district and state.

“The new memo ... stemmed from a case in which an undocumented high school student attempting to enroll in a community college through the state’s dual enrollment ...”

Someone should survey the states on this issue, and quickly.

There are three issues here, not one, and they are all related:

1. How are undocumented students handled at the secondary level? Are districts consistent?

2. How are undocumented students handled for all the inbetween courses (dual enrollment, IB, AP, pre-AP, etc.), and how is funding handled? Is there consistency (e.g., between dual enrollment and AP)?

3. How are undocumented students that have matriculated into postsecondary education handled? What are the state and local funding options?

The emergent complexity regarding these issues cannot be ignored, and neither can dual enrollment’s stealth potential.

Glen S. McGhee, Dir., at Florida Higher Education Accountability Project, at 3:35 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Unbelievable

” .. Republican hypocrisy simply says, “Sweep the floors .. and clean ..”

Ah, yes — class envy. As if, 30 years ago, at a start-up named Micro-Soft, the two employees took turns, cleaning the office bathroom? And 15 years later, they became billionaires?

Got caught, breaking the law? Then blame the working-class chumps who followed the rules. Excellent way to develop sympathy.

L.L., at 4:45 pm EST on December 5, 2007

I can’t understand how someone could really think that a minor child brought in to the US illegally by his/her parents should be punished by denying education. If a student has gone through high school in the U.S. they had to have been brought in, and made no conscious decision to violate U.S. laws. Why should they be held accountable for the actions of their parents in this particularly destructive way. They will suffer enough without denying them education.

KBS, at 5:05 pm EST on December 5, 2007

Mexico momentarily has a good economy and still some oil reserves. It will not always be so. Failure to enforce immigration laws can bring catastrophic floods of people that threaten our nationhood.

One poster said “schools should not be ICE cops.” Schools should set shining examples of compliance with our laws, exert active support of those laws, and should demonstrate proactive initiative in seeking out applicants who violate our immigration laws. School leaders who fail to understand their broader social obligations disrespect all Americans.We cannot afford the unlimited population growth that illegals impose. We have largely stabilized our population growth stemming from birth rates to legal citizens. Most population growth comes now from illegal immigrants and their children. Our shrinking energy and other natural resources combined with our limited land mass make population awareness of high importance.

The fact that illegal aliens come poorly educated and screened for past criminality pales in comparison with the other negatives regarding their presence.

Marvin McConoughey, at 9:30 pm EST on December 5, 2007

American Dream

It’s ridiculous that people think that by creating stricter laws and building a wall the problem with illegal immigration will be solved. People come to this country not to cause havoc or misfortune, but because US companie are MORE than willing to offer them jobs. If you want to solve a problem, you have to control the demand (US companies), not the supply (labor). But what many of conservatives don’t see is that the people that YOU ELECT into office are the ones creating the demand for cheap labor. Republicans support big business right? And who are the ones looking to hire this cheap labor?? Hmmm.... Your own government makes sure that nothing is done towards solving this problem. Think about your legal environment before trying to solve this problem by stepping on kids who only wish to CONTRIBUTE to you country!

Deisy, American Dream at CSULB, at 3:20 pm EST on December 6, 2007

Anti-immigrant vs. anti-illegal immigrant

Diogenes, it’s unfair for you to suppose that everyone who has problems educating illegal immigrants is a right-wing Republican with an anti-immigration agenda. Personally, I think I’m on the complete opposite side of that political spectrum, but I can’t help but agree with many of the posters here who feel that it is our duty as higher education employees to uphold the law. I also agree with the few folks who said that the reason we have problems with illegal immigration is because the government and many business owners profit from it. The laws clearly need to change, and if there was a legal push to offer the children of undocumented immigrants the opportunity to become full citizens, I would probably support that. I don’t think the sins of the father should necessarily pass down to the child, but as it is, they do. The sad truth is that, regardless of how many GOOD people enter this country illegaly, there are also quite a lot of people who for good reason are not permitted to enter legally (criminal backgrounds, etc.). And as others mentioned, there are lots of people right now who have gone through the right avenues and are patiently waiting to come to the U.S. — if people are serious about becoming American citizens, they need to do it the right way. I also think it is our responsibility to take care of the people who are already here before we start spending resources on people who are not here legally. Our country’s limited resources are not unlike our limited higher education resources, which many of us ignore in an effort to continually increase our student enrollment despite the fact that we do not have the classrooms, parking spaces, or staff to support them. There must be a limit and the only way that limit can be adequately established is through documenting people who come here.

HEAdmin, at 1:40 pm EST on December 7, 2007

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