What happened to the days....

...when vets could get free education through state schools?

Why can’t vets at least get free education through community colleges?

Yes, Virginia and the Feds. That means you would have to FUND community colleges. Cut down on your war spending, tax the people making the most money, and you would have plenty of additional funding. Plus, you would be showing gratitude to the people that help your KEEP YOU JOBS by serving our country.

kgotthardt, at 7:35 am EST on December 13, 2007

vet research out of date

Most vet research is too far out-of-date to apply. As is the case with this article. What educational researchers dont’ realize is that the 1980s were a huge cultural transition for the military and if you aren’t looking at at least Gulf War vets and later, your research isn’t going to apply much to this generation of vets. Unfortunately not enough research has been done on recent vets. Even the stuff coming out now days on veterans is still about the GI Bill or Vietnam Vets. The VA, DOD, or somebody needs to put some money into doing current research because otherwise too few people in higher ed have the knowledge and desire to do it.

John Summerlot, Residence Manager and Doc student at Indiana University, at 9:10 am EST on December 13, 2007

Dr. Teachman’s report is not so relevant .

Dr. Teachman is an able and respected researcher in the field of veteran education. The study cited might, however, not be relevant To give two examples: (1)there is a VAST difference between the military of today and the military of the 1980s. (2) Programs to aid veteran’s are not rare by any means; in addition to the Washington and Illinois programs cited in this program, I can point to the complete tuition waiver here in Connecticut.

I also found the comment on AFQT interesting in light of the many comments on SAT relevance. Is any additional information available on this subject? Perhaps AFQT is a good predictor!

STM60, UConn, at 1:55 pm EST on December 13, 2007

New Data; Lessons Learned at Univ of Ilinois

This is the same mess experienced in Illinois with the Illinois Veteran Grant, which requires about 20 state schools to pick up the tab if the benefit program is underfunded.

There is misinformation on both sides of this issue. On one hand, schools complain that the funding shortage results in real costs to universities that already receive billions of dollars from taxpayers every year. That argument obfuscates the real economic decision of fixed costs and marginal cost vs. marginal revenue. It’s like the last seat on the airplane. The flight is going anyway, so what is the real cost of putting someone in the seat. We’re talking about 2.3% of UW’s student population, or 1 veteran in a class of 50. Fixed costs and direct costs don’t increase unless you need more pilots and planes. On the other hand, do-good politicians wrap themselves in the flag and proclaim their support of the troops, but force others to fund their goodwill.

In the case of Illinois, which has a richer veteran benefit program, such hyperbole can cause destructive results. At University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, officials advertised for veterans to attend an MBA program free of charge in conjunction with the Illinois Veteran Grant (IVG). IVG forces schools to pick up any shortages in funding as tuition remission. After being swamped with applications and admitting about 70 veterans, U of I changed its mind, and altered admissions standards and time application time deadlines for veterans for paperwork like letters of recommendation, transcripts and the like, even though some admitted students were on active duty in Iraq. After rescinding admission to veterans and soldiers, it recruited full-paying civilians to take veterans’ place and put in a quota system to limit the number of veterans in their programs. The firestorm that resulted revealed a deep-seated bias against veterans as viable students, with faculty calling veterans “jarheads” and faculty that taught them “high-priced hookers.” This caught the attention of Illinois Lt. Governor, Pat Quinn, recently sent a scathing letter to U of I’s President Joe White, Chancellor Richard Herman and the Board of Trustees in protest reported by Associated Press at http://www.nwherald.com/articles/.../state/doc474d003a95028280427544.txt

Back to the data and the underlying problem. The Army’s marketing pitch is simple – “join the Army, get an Education.” But not so fast. Soldiers have to opt out of the GI Bill in order to NOT pay the $100 per month deduction for their first 12 months of service. From 1995-2004, about 94% signed up. However, over the last decade, only 52,000 of 641,000 eligible veterans who had signed up for GI Bill tuition benefits from 1985 through 1994, or 8.1%, used their full benefit during the 10-year limit following their discharge. About 30% did not use it at all. Just like one of those cards you get for Christmas with $100 spending money that you don’t use, the unused GI Bill payments contributed $230 million to Uncle Sam’s piggy bank over the last 10 years. This data comes from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

What a mess.

Terry, at 3:00 pm EST on December 13, 2007

Free vet tuition

I am a military vet and I don’t agree that vets should get free tuition. Recall that WW2 vets served involuntarily, often for “the duration,” and that a very high percentage of age-eligible young men (few women) were drafted.

Now, joining the military is voluntary. Pay is better, and vets have had years in which to save money. Further, each vet had, originally, an option to seek college, if eligible.

I think that joining the military is an excellent option for young people, but not one that should confer an automatic tuition break. America offers many honorable and admirable employment options to its high school graduates.

Marvin McConoughey, at 3:05 pm EST on December 14, 2007

University of Illinois — Admissions Standards Changed for Vets

The issue with U of I and the aborted military scholarship program is the Illinois Veteran Grant, a state-run veterans benefit program that promises Illinois veterans a “free” education by statute. It’s the law here. The “IVG” is more or less the original GI Bill plus a little more.

The problem here at the College of Business was that our former Dean decided to change the admissions standards — AFTER veterans applied and were accepted — and THEN recruited and admitted full-paying civilians not covered by the Illinois Veteran Grant. Now you see why the Lt. Governor was piqued and wrote a letter to our Board, President and Chancellor.

We have an honor code for our students. They still cheat from time to time, but they are young adults and it’s our responsibility to help them grow up. We enforce consequences when we find out about it (e.g., Florida State) about 10% of the time simply due to the hassle involved. But when Deans, Chancellors and University Presidents discriminate against veterans and soldiers from the privacy of their offices, that’s a lot worse. University of Illinois altered admissions procedures for veterans after they were accepted and then put civilians in their place. That’s discrimination and cheating at the highest level of higher education and entirely unacceptable if we are to retain the public’s trust.

Lt. Governor Pat Quinn sent University of Illinois President Joe White, Chancellor Richard Herman and the Board of Trustees a letter reprimanding them for cheating veterans out of 110 promised MBA scholarships. He caught them lying to his face and in writing and several letters and emails internal to U of I have been made public. This is an appropriate level of public oversight from a man who has been a voice for veterans for over a decade. Three cheers, I say. There is nothing wrong with accountability and transparency even when it holds the highest administrators’ feet to the fire.

University of Illinois administrators get a big asterisk for cheating in my book. It’s especially heinous when university administrators do it because students think they get a fair shake in the admissions process. Now we know the admissions process is rigged based on who you are and if you get public support like a veteran.

It will be very interesting to see when the Inspector General and Quinn report come out who knew about the discrimination scheme, when they knew and why they did nothing about it.

University of Illinois is a public university. It’s time for transparency and let the chips fall where they may.

If you want more information regarding the Illinois Veteran Grant, go to the web at collegezone.com/studentzone/416_962.htm.

Susan, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, at 2:35 pm EST on December 20, 2007