Jan. 9

Molding the TEACH Grant Program

Largely lost in the debate about last year’s budget reconciliation legislation that increased the maximum Pell Grant and financed that and other new spending by slashing federal payments to student loan providers was a new program that seeks to encourage students to enter the teaching profession.

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The Teacher Education Assistance for College and Higher Education Grant Program (TEACH) provides up to $4,000 a year in grant aid to college students who plan to become teachers, as well as current teachers who pursue graduate degrees. Grant recipients agree to serve as a full-time teacher in a “high need” school and teach a “high need” subject for at least four academic years within eight years of finishing the program for which the person received the aid.

Legislators have long searched for ways to increase the number of qualified teachers and prolong their stay in the profession, and the TEACH program, set to be funded at $325 million over five years starting this summer, is a move in that direction.

But as a federal committee began negotiations over rules to carry out the TEACH program on Tuesday, some higher education lobbyists said they were concerned that the program could do a disservice to many students.

If recipients can’t or decide not to finish their academic programs or fail to follow through on their four-year teaching obligation, the grants are treated as unsubsidized direct loans to be repaid with interest. Students can begin accepting the grants as early as their freshman year of college, meaning that their loans could accumulate over several years. (Undergraduates, graduate students, and students enrolled in post-baccalaureate teacher credential programs are among those eligible for the program.)

As Terry W. Hartle, senior vice president for government and public affairs at the American Council on Education and a member of the federal panel, explained during the opening minutes of the negotiated rule making session: “It’s not really a grant. It’s not really a loan. We’re calling it a groan.”

And it’s a groan that has merit requirements. Undergraduates need a 3.25 grade point average to qualify; if the student is a freshman, the cumulative high school record counts. Applicants with upper-tier test scores can also be considered. The GPA requirements don’t apply to all applicants — current teachers working toward a graduate degree whose expertise is in a field where there is a shortage of teachers are exempt, for instance. Graduate school applicants must also be pursuing high-need subjects such as math, science and special education.

Undergraduate and post-baccalaureate students’ overall rewards can’t exceed $16,000. For graduate students, that number is $8,000. Some are concerned that the recipients might total thousands in debt.

Anne T. Hickey, associate director of government relations with ACE, said that since the Department of Education and rule making negotiators are going into uncharted territory with the federal grant/loan program, she has plenty of concerns about how the program will run.

“The intentions are easy to support, but the concern is whether we are inadvertently putting students in a worse situation,” she said. “Do we know with confidence what percentage of them will end up with the loans?”

Among other issues Hickey cited are whether the loans would count toward students’ aggregate unsubsidized loan limit and whether it’s wise to attach so great a financial stake to a decision a 19-year-old is making about his or her career — a concern that several other higher ed officials echoed. College leaders also generally dislike the fact that lawmakers have set up the TEACH Grants to embrace the trend — similar to the Academic Competitiveness and SMART Grant Programs that also leaves them cold — of injecting merit-based components to federal student aid programs.

A California program that targeted students who were nearing college graduation or had already graduated could serve as instructional. The Governor’s Teaching Fellowship Program provided grant assistance for students who were seniors in college or older to complete a fifth required year in the state to become a teacher. Like the TEACH program, California’s version required that students teach for a minimum of four years over a period of time after graduation or pay back the money in loans.

Among this group of students, roughly 40 percent have been repaying loans, according to the University of California System, which has tracked students who took part in the program. Most students hadn’t changed their minds about the teaching profession. They often taught briefly and were unable to find work in a school that met the high-need requirement, or they took a leave that got them off schedule.

A North Carolina program that provides a maximum $6,500-per-year scholarship (that also can turn into a loan) to high school seniors who, upon graduation, teach for four years reports that 83 percent of teaching fellow graduates were employed the year after their four-year service payback. What’s less clear is how many students didn’t make it to graduation and are paying back their loans.

Some say they would like to see the TEACH program scratched. Lauren Asher, associate director of the Project on Student Debt, said that while the program is “well-intentioned,” “if the goal is to reduce the debt load of students who want to become teachers, other types of more straightforward forgiveness programs would be more effective.” Asher added that TEACH is misleading in calling itself a grant program rather than a loan program.

“People need to understand that they may be taking on a higher debt load, and they need to get counseling about their odds of completing the criteria,” she said, adding that, in her estimate, the vast majority of recipients would be unlikely to meet it.

Aides to Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), who is chairman of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, said the idea behind the program is to attract people to teaching who intend to stay, not to put up roadblocks for students and include punitive provisions.

The service requirement was included so that the program would carry a measure of accountability, they said. It’s their hope that negotiators can find a way to address the issue of students who can’t finish the four years because of reasons outside of their control.

And if students don’t know about their career plans, they don’t have to take the scholarship until later in college, they added.

Sandra Robinson, dean of the College of Education at the University of Central Florida, called the concept of the TEACH Grants “outstanding,” but said she’d still like to know what will happen if, say, a student graduates with the intention of teaching a subject and a state later deems it to be not a “high need” area.

Jane E. West, vice president of government relations with the American Association for Colleges of Teacher Education, called the program “a landmark effort to address a critical shortage of teachers,” and said she’s confident students would be able to find the right counseling about their financial choices.

The negotiating panel continues its meetings this week and throughout the next two months. Its charge is to make recommendations to the Education Department on how to implement the program.

Among the panel’s first actions Tuesday, it added to its rolls an official nominated by the National Education Association who had been turned away from the committee. The union argued that her denial meant that no teachers were represented on the negotiating panel.

— Elia Powers

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Comments

Have fun with this

As usual, “We’re from the government and we’re here to help” is going to screw a lot of things up.These recent grant schemes seem to be making hard for everyone; students, financial aid administrators, and the Dept of Ed. Is expanding Pell and increasing Perkins loan forgiveness that freaking hard to do?

Why don’t the doorknobs that are making these rules go sit in a financial aid office for a couple months and look at the pain in the butt these stupid things create. They would surely come up with something simpler.

I hope Sen Kennedy has all of the proper disclosures out about this grant/loan/groan thing...I hate for him to hear from Mr Cuomo’s office once these kids get a teaching job, but not the “right kind” of teaching job and get a loan statement.

Bill, at 9:50 am EST on January 9, 2008

I’m not sure why this is a problem. If the grants did not turn to loans, there would be little incentive to continue as teachers. Students would be able to use the grants to complete their degrees (or partially fund them), then walk away from their commitment to teach. Why should someone be permitted to take advantage of a program that is intended for one purpose, without becoming teachers? The military does not fund an education and then forgive the service that is supposed to occur at the end of that training. Why should a program aimed at recruiting teachers do so? We need teachers. We do not need to divert resources aimed at recruiting teachers to other fields or to the support of students in general.

Perry, at 10:15 am EST on January 9, 2008

What?

So higher education is complaining about new, additional government grant money because it comes with stipulations? Wow.

Um, Higher Ed people, the American tax payer wants accountability. Get used to this. The trend is only going to continue. I applaud this trend!

Brian, at 11:10 am EST on January 9, 2008

it is a problem

My much younger sister ran into this problem in SC- she accepted grant funds for her undergraduate education in return for teaching. Problem? After her freshman year she had decided NOT to major in secondary education. So, she owed all that money back.

My fear is that other students, worried about paying for college, will accept these grant funds. Many, many, many high school students change their major once they begin their college education

mc, at 11:15 am EST on January 9, 2008

California model

I think another article is in order here, to explain how teachers in the California program were unable to find a school that met the “high need” requirement. Um, what? Has anyone looked at the statistics lately for L.A. Unified, for example? It just couldn’t be that difficult to find a high need school! If that’s the “model” that might inform the federal program....then yeah, there’s definitely some wrinkles to be ironed out.

Curious, at 11:25 am EST on January 9, 2008

What if there aren’t jobs for the graduating debtors?

Students suffer when they finally graduate and then find no teaching jobs available. Colleges behave like “diploma mills” running as many students as possible through these dubious, often on-line, teaching programs. The college administrators earn great profits. Then the students, many of them already middle-aged and hoping for second careers, graduate with huge debts and little chance of finding a job. They are basically screwed at that point. Your tax dollars at work.

Ken D., at 12:00 pm EST on January 9, 2008

The financial aid community supports accountability and guarding against abuse. The problem is the model of grants converting to loans. The worst case scenario — “sorry, now it is a loan” — BEGS for abuse to happen. A loan forgiveness model (e.g. Perkins Loan Program as another writer mentioned) has a far more palatable worst case — “You took out a loan, you don’t meet the criteria, so it is still a loan.”

C.J., Asst. Dir., Financial Aid, at 1:15 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Groan is right

Regarding Brian’s comment, I don’t think that anyone is shying away from accountability by opposing the way this is being done. Does accountability have to be punitive? An unsubsidized loan with interest retroactively accumulating back to the time at which the scholarship was received? I won’t bother doing the math, but that sounds like $16K in scholarship money could turn into about $50K in loans...on top of any other loans the student borrowed. And this punishment (because that’s what it is) could be triggered off by a change in the job market, illness, family leave, a spouse relocating...if the original intent of this bill was not to create obstacles, then I say back to the drawing board. Let’s get some technical amendments here...at least get rid of the unsubsidized retroactive back interest.

DS, at 1:15 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Bother to do the math.

If you’re going to take a position based on the numbers, it’s irresponsible and lazy to “not bother to do the math". Let me do it for you. $16k doesn’t turn into $50k. Assuming 7% interest and borrowing the full $4000 each year for four years, further assuming that the interest is in fact retroactive to the loan origin, at the end of year 4 there is an additional $3003 owed on the $16,000 principle. That’s $19,003, not $50k.

Assume the worst case: that you keep putting off paying back the loan until the end of year 9 (at which point it wouldn’t be possible to meet the requirement to teach 4 years within 8 of completing the program). At that point, you’d owe $8,909 in addition to the $16,000 principle. So in the worst case, if you strung out your decision not to teach (and therefore the conversion from grant to loan) as long as possible and took the full amount each year, you’d owe $24,909 — not $50k.

Bothering to break open excel..., at 2:15 pm EST on January 9, 2008

re: “Bother to do the math”

Could the worst case scenario be worse than you think? Would these “groans” be dischargeable in bankruptcy? Don’t lenders also charge penalties for missed or late payments? If our hypothetical borrower owes $24,909 but can’t make the payments, he or she might fall into an escalating debt spiral and could end up owing $50,000, with all the penalties and accrued interest a lender might charge.

Ken D., at 3:10 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Amortization be damned!

24K or 50K misses the point. The real comparison is zero vs. ??K.

Accountability is not the same as administrative burden.

The Pell grant program is a large program, with about as much accountability as is possible, but it is a relatively light burden. The Teach “grant” is an administrative burden right out of the gate. Students are not required to sit through entrance and exit counseling for Pell grants.

I work at a school with a quite large undergrad (and grad) teacher program and I applaud the intent. The delivery could be improved upon as others have commented.

As far as teachers renaging on their responsibilities...I don’t see any prospective scientists or engineers having their feet held to the fire with SMART grants. It was enough for them to just do the coursework.

Since teachers don’t make salaries comparable to most other professions, e.g. engineers lets give them a break and give them a real grant.

R.F., at 3:15 pm EST on January 9, 2008

...and your point?

Mr. Bothering to do the math...are you therefore arguing that this program makes sense? And more importantly, will it accomplish the presumptive goal of making teaching a more attractive career to outstanding students? A $16,000 scholarship turning into more than $20,000 in debt, perhaps through no fault of the recipient’s, is fine with you, given that the very reason it becomes debt is likely to be the same reason that debt would be unmanageable?

Let’s debate whether or not this is good public policy, not Excel amortization table skills.

DS, at 3:15 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Do more math

If you take the $24,909 and spread it out over 20 years at 6.875%. Your payments total $45,904 after you add in the finance charge. Not quite $50K, but almost $46K.

bill, at 3:35 pm EST on January 9, 2008

I don’t see why the whole problem can’t be fixed by the states that most need teachers ignoring the teachers’ unions and only requiring that teachers in public schools have an honors degree or equivalent in a teachable subject. Speaking from my experience, virtualy all a teacher really needs to know about teaching (that can be taught rather than learned by experience) can be learned by a few weeks on the job. Give each new hire a mentor in the same school, and let them teach. The problem with these high demand areas is subject knowledge, not educational theory.

Neil Ronan Coleman, at 5:35 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Lets not create a new program that operates backwards.!!.when we already have the wonderful tried and true program called PERKINS LOAN...IT HAS LOAN forgiveness for teachers already in it...lets just put more money into it and expand it!! That way, the loans are given out up front and ONLY Forgiven or cancelled(say 10% a year for up to ten years...that sounds fair) As loan burden grows, so would incentive to cancel it as a student progresses and thus more making and keeping their career focused on teaching!!(nursing or whatever!) Wake up congress!! In fact we dont need the ACG/Smart program either..just tell students up front at the beginning of their college enrollment that if they go into Nursing, teaching, etc and whatever shortage areas are determined at that time...they can cancel up to 10% of loan debt (up to a max each year of say $2,000) and we wont need all of these stupid and wasteful programs that are a nigthmare to explain and administer...how a cost effective study comparing the 2 methods? I’m sure Perkins would win!! Lets expand the definitions and funnel new life into an already simple and effective program that has been working for 43 years!!!

DAN, at 5:55 pm EST on January 9, 2008

Hmmm...while I concur with Mr. Math that the math is important, he doesn’t seem clear on how the grant to loan conversion actually is expected to work.

The TEACH grant language implies that, in the typical case, the conversion will occur at such time as the student fails to complete the teaching requirement — that is, 4 years of teaching within an 8 year window after the completion of the degree. The math is important, but you are using the wrong figures (tho I admire your choice of software).

Thus, the better mathematical model for this debate is to assume the student takes the TEACH groan for 4 years, and accumulates $16,000 in funds, and successfully completes their program. They then go about their business for 8 more years before ED determines they have not met the requirement of completing 4 years of eligible teaching in that 8 year window. The interest is retroactively accrued to the date the funds were received (with a 6.8% interest rate assumed since it’s based on the Unsub rate).

Now, my model isn’t totally accurate since I treated it more like an annual annuity due than a quarterly/semester based disbursement and interest schedule, but it’s ballpark.

At the end of 12 years, that $16,000 in principle has grown to approx. $32,000 before a single payment has been made. If you then amortize the loan over a 10-year repayment period (monthly payment = $370 just for the TEACH portion of the loan and does not consider other loans held), the total amount repaid on that $16,000 grant would be $44,200. You made the mistake of assuming repayment would begin much earlier than year 12, whereas year 12-13 would actually be the standard assumption for a four-five year program followed by an 8 year qualifying window.

Now, some cases will probably work out to less, assuming ED can determine a way to identify non-qualifiers and ‘force’ them into repayment earlier. But, the way the model is designed, $44,000 is a very reasonable estimate of what the average TEACH recipient will face if they complete their degree but fail to meet the eligible teaching component.

And for those who argue that this is merely a matter of colleges not wishing to face accountability, it’s far far more complicated than that. But my main point here is to improve the model for the math being bandied about.

Math = Math?, at 6:30 pm EST on January 9, 2008

I am just going to put this out there... for some people, loans like this are necessary for them to even go to school. Yeah sure every new grant/loan/whatever is going to have its kinks but you can’t just say “Oh it doesn’t work” and scrap the whole idea. Just because it turns into a loan doesn’t the program bad, it makes it smart! If every person said “Hey I think I want to be a teacher” then failed to do so and didn’t have to make payments for the money used, that means they took another kids’ spot that really wanted/needed this grant. How easy is it to say you want to do something and it never happens? Reparations are needed to keep people who aren’t serious about this career to reconsider.

Just saying, at 5:05 pm EST on January 24, 2008

Why Grant Programs Suck for the Non Traditional Student

This TEACH incentive seems like a noble idea, however, why should it or ANY grant have stipulations on them? For one thing, most grants and scholarships focus entirely too much on GPA. Does a 2.5 GPA make a person a bad student? I’m a person with a 2.5 GPA but that isn’t my fault because I have had to work the entire time I have been in school. Balancing a full time job, a full load of classes, and household responsibility isn’t easy, and there is almost ALWAYS someone wanting to trip me as I walk that fine line. I’ve had employers trash me for bettering myself and try to force me to choose between my right to better myself and the necessity of making a living.

Federal Aid and other “free grant” programs suck for the working college student because I make too much to qualify, yet all the freeloaders who push out babies at 16 and 17 years old are rewarded for irresponsibility. I’m all about anyone getting an education who wants it, but come on. In fact, my financial aid officer told me before I was married that I would qualify for aid if I had a baby. We need to rethink the financial aid system in general, and we should start by raising the poverty level.

Ad for the TEACH grant, take off the hefty GPA stipulation and the requirement to teach in a ‘high need’ school in a ‘high need’ subject area. The subjects they mean are math and science, and the ‘high need’ schools are those that are in urban areas which would force me to re-locate, and I don’t want to do that. This grant should be open to any and ALL who wish to teach, so long as they remain a teacher for five years in ANY district. Teaching is a noble profession because teachers shape the lives of children, and thest children are our nation’s future! One of my teachers told our class the other night that teachers are the educators of other professions. Without a teacher, how would people become doctors, lawyers and even pilots?

I am due to be in my teaching internship in January 2009 for 14 weeks, and all teaching internships are unpaid which means I will lose my job, something that I cannot afford, yet I don’t qualify for any kind of aid, and I have to jump through rings of fire to be considered for special circumstances BECAUSE I work. Aside from creating a grant for ALL, the government needs to mandate that teaching internships should be PAID for this reason alone.

Instead of blowing money in Iraq, we need to be focusing our attention to EDUCATION in the US like our European counterparts do in thier countires. People, these are your tax dollars at work.

Diane, at 4:35 am EST on January 25, 2008

I think I’m one to talk about these types of programs seeing that I’m actually in college and trying to take advantage of them. Right now I am a part of the NC teaching fellows, the program mentioned in the article. Want to know the real truth about this program? and its effectiveness? Many people don’t end up being teachers after they graduate and pay back the loan. Others use it for money to pay for private schools (because the Private institutions that do this program match the $6500 a year, and if you don’t teach for four years, you only have to pay back the states $6500, not the schools contribution). Talking to many of the students involved in it at my school, I’d say at least a 1/5 of them do not want to become teachers or are unsure about becoming teachers. Because of this many people do end up dropping out of the program. We’ve been told that if the drop out rate continues, they will end up stopping the program. This is sad because there are a lot of students out there who really want to be teachers and could use the money, but this “scholarship/loan” is asking a lot of high school seniors. You have to commit to teaching in a school in NC for 4 years after graduation and you have 7 years to complete that. If you don’t complete it you pay back the loan. Thats a big commitment for high school seniors to make. The next 8 years of their life they have to stay in NC and they have to teach. What if they change their mind? Thats a “groan” too. I will give them credit, some of the “extra” programs you get to do are great (like a week long trip across the state to visit school systems, some schools offer a semester study abroad, a trip to DC, seminars and informational meetings), but those are also another commitment.

I do want to be a teacher, but I also want to transfer to a different school (for many unrelated reasons). This of course means I will have to pay back a year of my scholarship, but now I’m on the hunt for other scholarships and grants for teaching. My search has been short lived. For such a high-need job there is little opportunity for scholarships. And most of the scholarships available are only for state schools, and you have to live in that state to get the money (kind of like the NC Teaching Fellows). When I found the TEACH grant, I thought it would be a great idea. Fortunately I would like to teach in an underprivileged school, and I am pretty sure I want to be a math teacher. But you all are right when you say, what if I change my mind? I guess I change my mind to a career that will pay for my new loan (that was once a grant). For such an underpaying job, future teachers should be able to go to school for free.

My proposal is this: get more scholarships for teachers, and get more that are necessarily “need-based". Not every want-to-be-teacher is in big financial need, but that doesn’t mean we can pay for $30,000 a year for college. I think that college should be free for future teachers. There obviously has to be an incentive to teach in the end, which is why they say you have to pay it back, but I don’t think we should have to pay to go to school. If we are going to get paid less than garbage men to teach the Bill Gates’ of our community, we shouldn’t have to pay for school that is more than our yearly salary. That’s sad. There is obviously something wrong with our country in this aspect, and for some reason teachers end up at the bottom of the food chain. But where would everyone be without them? Poor. Just like the teachers. Interesting concept...

But anyway, I’m just glad that I found the TEACH grant. As much as some of you knock it, you should try finding money to go to school, especially if you don’t qualify for financial aid. This is the ONLY grant I have found that is non-need based. I’m glad that this is an option for me, especially since I know I want to be a teacher. I am happy that I don’t have to be stuck to NC for 8 years anymore.

So to all of you complaining about this grant, trying putting yourself in my shoes. It sucks to have a passion about something that you know wont make you a king or queen. It’s not the money (obviously) that drives me to want to be a teacher, its knowing that I will be able to make a difference in someone’s life. So now, in order to pursue my passion in a place where I am happy, I will have to take out loans and pay them back when I am a teacher...on my HUGE salary. Life in America sometimes really doesn’t make sense.

Natalie, Been There Done That, at 10:20 am EST on January 30, 2008

I decided to participate in a similar program in my state of residence, Kentucky. I am getting a Master’s Degree in Secondary education, Biology. I have been in the program for less than a year and the funding for the program has been cut by Governor Steve Brashear. I now have $30,000 dollars worth of “grant money” that must be paid back. It’s all bullshit.

Erin, at 5:55 am EDT on April 1, 2008

TEACH loan?

It appears that the feds are approaching a problem with a half-baked solution. Perhaps using this particular financial incentive for teachers as a low interest loan, and forgiving the debt after the required years of teaching at an approved school, would eliminate some of the pitfalls.

I’m not sure why this is a grant up front, free money, when there are stipulations on the outcome that turn it into a loan...

GG, at 5:15 pm EDT on May 21, 2008

Seriously

If I read one more comment on the math behind the loan I will be sick. The debt is an issue, but what people are arguing about more than the amount of debt (since we understand it is quite high and between $25 and $50K) is the fact that it has too many requirements to fulfill at the end to the point that it is unsafe for students to follow through. Not to mention, students like me who are in a 6 year track including grad work have plenty of questions. Does it have to be both a low income school and a needed area? Because other articles said it did not need to be. If you do undergrad work, then grad work, then student teaching... is the grad work part of the 8 years you have to teach? Is it an issue if your doing two endorsements, and only doing grad work for something like Music which isn’t a high need? Do you have to be enrolled full time in that subject or if a low income school needed 2 periods taught of math and 2 periods of music would that be sufficient?

Those are logical questions students have. And they are not being answered. And what some advisor could tell us now, could be completely wrong by the time we carry out our teaching and we would pay for that. There are some serious kinks to be worked out with this program. So those of you freaking out about your interest, stop and grow up. That’s not the real issue. Think about the commitments being asked of the students and think if it’s even logical.

Student, at 8:45 pm EDT on May 30, 2008

Really? You’re complaining about this?

I’m a college senior who owes around $40,000 in student loans already. This $4000 is a beautiful beacon of light at the end of a pretty dismal tunnel for me. Our country needs to wake up and realize that even parents making a little something can’t afford to pay for their child’s college. My parents certainly can’t. They’re about ten thousand dollars out of the Pell Grant bracket, and they’re still living paycheck to paycheck. So please, give me the $4000. I’ll teach the four years, and then twenty more.

oddler, at 6:45 am EDT on June 2, 2008

I am interested in the TEACH “grant", but found that the grant doesn’t apply if I take classes anywhere but on main campus. I have just completed my fourth year of teaching at a charter school and have a two year old son. My husband and I are both teachers, and currently paying back loans from college. In order to get a better paying job, I need to further my education... but instead of getting help, all I get are more loans. If you ask me, the government should put a cap on the number of teachers coming out of colleges and universities until those of us out in the “market” have a job.

Ashley, Teacher, at 11:20 pm EDT on June 9, 2008

TEACH Grant is a pain

Why cant ED just make it a loan forgiveness program? There are so many problems with the TEACH Grant. Most students change their minds about what they want to major in let alone what they want to do for a career. Then they have to teach for 4 years at a school that they may turn out not to like. Yes..thats life..most people don’t love the places they work but I don’t feel students should be punished by having increased loans. And, lets say one of these wonderful students manage to find a school, work for 3 years and then change their mind...ooppps..oh well.. you now have a loan. I am all for helping students in the high need schools in high need fields. But, why don’t we encourage them by offering more loan forgiveness for every year they teach instead.I am afraid the TEACH Grant is doomed and the students are just being set up for failure.

“Yes..I am a freshman and I plan to teach..give me my free money....oh no..I change my mind”

POD in NC, at 3:15 pm EDT on June 17, 2008

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