Jan. 11

Maybe He Shouldn’t Have Spoken His Mind

T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus newspaper. While that kind of campaign might be enough to annoy university officials, Barnes never thought it would get him expelled.

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Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a sophomore, that he had been “administratively withdrawn” effective May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he “present[ed] a clear and present danger to this campus” and referred to the “attached threatening document,” a printout of an image from an album on Barnes’s Facebook profile. The collage featured a picture of a parking garage, a photo of Zaccari, a bulldozer, the words “No Blood for Oil” and the title “S.A.V.E.-Zaccari Memorial Parking Garage,” a reference to a campus environmental group and Barnes’s contention that the president sought to make the structures part of his legacy at the university.

The letter also said that in order to return as a student, a non-university psychiatrist would have to certify that Barnes was not a threat to himself or anyone else, and that he would receive “on-going therapy.” After he appealed, with endorsements from a psychiatrist and a professor, the Georgia Board of Regents “didn’t do the right thing and reverse the expulsion,” said William Creeley, a senior program officer at the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, a nonprofit organization that defends students’ free expression rights and helped Barnes secure legal counsel.

“Sometimes there will come along a set of facts where you read it and you think, they couldn’t possibly have done this,” said Robert Corn-Revere, Barnes’s attorney and an adjunct scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute. “Then you look at it [and realize that] yes, they did.”

Corn-Revere wrote to the University System of Georgia and was told only that the institution couldn’t discuss the case because of federal privacy law. (Creeley said public universities often “hide behind FERPA,” even though in this case Barnes had provided a waiver to his rights under the law, whose name stands for the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act.) On Wednesday, he filed suit against the university in federal court, Zaccari and the Board of Regents under the First and Fourteenth Amendments.

The university released a statement to the press: “As this is a pending legal matter, we are not at liberty to discuss the particulars of this issue at this time.”

In a reply to Barnes’s complaint to the university, the Board of Regents said Barnes had contacted system-wide administrators and board members, “telling them that he had met with President Zaccari on this issue, when he had not.” It also referenced the April 16 Virginia Tech massacre, which occurred around the time of the dispute between Barnes and the university.

As additional evidence of the threat posed by Barnes, the document referred to a link he posted to his Facebook profile whose accompanying graphic read: “Shoot it. Upload it. Get famous. Project Spotlight is searching for the next big thing. Are you it?” It doesn’t mention that Project Spotlight was an online digital video contest and that “shoot” in that context meant “record.” The appeal also mentions that Barnes’s profile stated, at one point, that he was “cleaning out and rearranging his room and thus, his mind, or so he hopes.” That was likely a status update, commonly used by Facebook members to update their friends on what they’re doing at a particular moment — whether literally or metaphorically.

After Zaccari saw a printout of Barnes’s Facebook page, he was subsequently “accompanied to high-profile events by plain-clothed police officers, and uniformed police officers were placed on high alert,” according to the document. The president has since announced his retirement, six months earlier than expected.

Creeley suggested that Zaccari is using Virginia Tech as a pretext for violating Barnes’s rights as a student at a public university and said his behavior was either “dazzlingly paranoid” or “disingenuous.”

“Knowing that Barnes had availed himself of counseling services made available to all students by VSU, Zaccari secretly and repeatedly met with Barnes’s counselor seeking to justify his decision to expel him,” the lawsuit states. “What he learned from both the campus counseling center and from Barnes’s private psychiatrist who was consulted in the matter, however, was that Barnes had never exhibited any violent tendencies and that he did not represent any danger either to himself or to others. Quite to the contrary, despite a background in which he had been forced to cope with some difficult family issues from an early age, Barnes had developed into an engaged student, was a licensed and decorated emergency medical technician, and was politically aware and involved.”

FIRE is simultaneously pressuring Valdosta State to reverse its “free speech area” policy, which is unusually rigid in restricting student expression to a single stage on the 168-acre campus, only between the hours of 12 and 1 p.m. and 5 and 6 p.m., with prior registration.

“Treating students as though they are caged animals is pretty reprehensible,” Creeley said.

— Andy Guess

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Comments

Memorial?!?!

The phrase “Memorial Parking Garage” would have made me extremly nervous if it had been my name connected to it. Perhaps this young man was off balance not just a student concerned with the physical appearance of his campus and the enviromental impact of new buildings. If VT had attempted to remove the killer when he was just a troubled student would we have had the same stories of lawsuits and how dare they attitude.

Wesley, at 8:00 am EST on January 11, 2008

Sorry Wesley, but you too are obviously one of the hyperparanoid intelligensia currently running around on college campuses. It is very easy to see evil intent in anyone, particularly someone who you know has been under the care of a counselor. I am sick to death (yes death...don’t start calling the cops because I used that word) of people who cannot review anything IN context. I hope this kid wins and wins big. Not that administrators will learn a lesson, but Valdosta might.

HRGuy, No offense?, at 8:35 am EST on January 11, 2008

I agree, Wesley. From just the facts published here- and let’s never forget that there may be MORE facts than we know- it seems as if the University may have gone overboard. But if an institution fails to act, and fails to try to get students evaluations and help, and something happens, then IHE and other publications simply switch their headlines to “Officials Took No Action, Could Have Prevented Tragedy.”

Jennifer, at 8:40 am EST on January 11, 2008

Wesley

Many people are “memorialized” in life. I doubt if Donald Trump should be worried because the towers are named for him. It seems a great stretch, and eerily convenient, for this president to label this student in essence an “enemy combatant” in order to remove his voice.

Bob, at 8:45 am EST on January 11, 2008

Get Larry on the phone

A friend is a campus counselor, and the VT tragedy has everyone on edge.

However, one wonders, if instead of dealing with the mundane (e.g., dreaming up new regulations to avoid dealing real problems), why the college just didn’t send an administrator and security officer to talk to the student, face-to-face? And do an on-site assessment?

When there are few authentic standards and expectations — anything and everything can happen.

L.L., at 8:56 am EST on January 11, 2008

Clear and Present Danger to Participatory Democracy

This story is a perfect example of how post-Virginia Tech (and, for that matter, post-911) fear is eroding citizens’ supposedly constitutionally protected rights. Most universities’ missions include helping students to play more active roles in a participatory democracy, to speak out, to protest inequities and injustices and just plain dumb ideas. Now we’re using (rare) campus tragedies to rid our colleges and universities of students who play those roles, on the pretext that they present a “clear and present danger” to others. We’ve seen the results of this paranoia before; when enough students protest something collectively, we can always bring in the National Guard and gun them down (justified, at least in Kent, Ohio, by the assumption that they presented a “clear and present danger"). What’s next, new university offices for “the surveillance of student discourse and the preemptive removal of dissenters?”

George, at 9:04 am EST on January 11, 2008

Warning! University Controlled Counseling Center

Just as in the nations which US educators used to despise — fear is used in this situation to justify the prohibition of free speech — not just free speech, but the kind of participatory democratic action I would have thought US universities would most want to train their students to conduct.

And, if, in the midst of post-VT paranoia (as seen in Wesley’s comment) there was confusion, L.L.’s suggestion of a conversation would have met many “reasonableness” tests if the goal had been campus safety and not the elimination of dissent.

But if this — “Zaccari secretly and repeatedly met with Barnes’s counselor seeking to justify his decision to expel him” — is true, it represents the most disturbing part of this tale — and goes back to our conversations after the VT tragedy. http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/04/20/socol Once again a university counseling service may have failed in its most important professional obligation. Many commenters insisted (back then) that the kinds of breaches of confidentiality I described could not happen, and that my warnings to students about these facilities were just wrong. But here again (if true) we see an essential problem with campus mental health service.

Ira Socol, Michigan State University, at 9:30 am EST on January 11, 2008

Show us the threat by your actions!

If the school thought this man a threat, they would have met him with the police. The fact that they slipped an expulsion notice under his door tends to make me think they wanted this student silenced because here dared to contest their building plan. You don’t handle a student who you think a danger by sending him a letter and allowing him to roam around at will. That alone makes the administration look ridicules! Is that how you respond to a potential Virginia Tech-like threat? The actions do not fit their accusations, concerns and rhetoric. It will be interesting to see how this is resolved.

John F. DeFelice, at 10:30 am EST on January 11, 2008

Expulsion and security

If they thought he was a threat, expulsion would not have been an effective remedy. This suggests that the expulsion was indeed punitive, in an unacceptable way.

Rich, at 10:30 am EST on January 11, 2008

So this is what this country has come to? No protests. No free speech unless it’s what the suits want to hear.

Welcome to Nazi Germany, and Communist Russia. Welcome to Winston and the rats.

Nanette Rayman, writer, at 10:30 am EST on January 11, 2008

Several people have focused on the use of the word “Memorial” on the students Facebook page. However, I think that it useful to recognize that the president repeatedly referred to the parking garages as his “legacy.” Give those statements, I think a less alarmist interpretion of his Facebook page is supported.

John, at 10:30 am EST on January 11, 2008

You’ve said it all

This kind of thing is actually really typical of the Georgia University system (in which I and spouse spent eight long years) — many administrators running the smaller schools (like Valdosta) as if they were personal fiefdoms exempt from Constitutional laws.

Hoosier Prof, at 10:50 am EST on January 11, 2008

Speaking his mind

Remember that in the waning days of the last “evil empire", the government in the USSR routinely incarcerated political dissidents in mental insitutions (and administered painful injections to treat the “maladies") based on claims that their actions as dissidents were evidence of mental illness. All in the west were aghast at these cynical maneuvers.

Its time to look in the mirror folks.

Roman, at 11:10 am EST on January 11, 2008

response to LL

In my experience, “Memorial” without a name usually refers to either 1) alumni who died; or 2) casualties of war.

LL, I agree that there are so many problems with this, and so many places that the school screwed up, and FIRE and the posters seems to have hit most of them using common sense, so I don’t think I can ad too much to the conversation. (And, I note that this person seems to have completely secular – perhaps “left wing” goals – and FIRE has taken his cause.) But hey... not my client.

Larry, at 1:20 pm EST on January 11, 2008

Obviously if you publicly disagree with the position of the State (University) you are a threat. Threats must be removed.

This is life as a serf in a tyranny. A good lesson to be learned in college. And only in the USA would the issue be about automobile parking.

HappyIdiot, UC Santa Barbara, at 1:30 pm EST on January 11, 2008

My goodness, does this sound all too familiar. And to think, our taxes support this kind of anti-Constitutional behavior. How comforting.

Nothing wrong with referring a student for an evaluation if it’s done for the right reasons. But as one person here pointed out, that was obviously a punitive measure designed to get rid of the trouble maker just speaking his/her mind.

I’ve been one of those. Guess what? If you try to get rid of us, we just get louder : )

kgotthardt, at 8:25 pm EST on January 11, 2008

Response to Wesley

I understand your concern Wesley, taken out of context, I can see how something like “memorial” could be confusing.

However, lets examine the context.

1. A number of buildings on the campus of Valdosta State University are named for living alumni/major donors.

2. In his ONLY contact with Mr. Barnes, President Zaccari spoke repeatedly about his legacy and how he will be remembered at VSU. The term “memorial” was a poetic jab, nothing more.

3. The actual headline of the cartoon in question read “S.A.V.E.-Zaccari Memorial Parking Garage". S.A.V.E., Students Against Violating the Environment, is a VSU campus environmental organization which refused to take up the issue of the parking garage and opted for “softer” environmental issues such as recycling and carbon credits. No one has suggested that Mr. Barnes intended to harm the members of S.A.V.E., many of whom were and remain friends of Mr. Barnes and have come to his defense. If the title of the cartoon was a threat, why didn’t President Zaccari provide for the same level of protection for members of S.A.V.E.?

4. While the University President illegally obtained Mr. Barnes’ counseling records, he obtained them nonetheless, and they overwhelming stated that Mr. Barnes’ was never a threat to himself or others.

5. The courts have ruled that even fictional works of art which depict school violence are in fact protected by the First Amendment.

Anonymous, at 9:35 pm EST on January 11, 2008

Jennifer

Valdosta State University has a procedure for concerned administrators to initiate mental health withdrawals.

VSU, like every institution, has established student disciplinary procedures.

Neither one of these procedures were used in Mr. Barnes’ case.

The only parallel that can be drawn to VT in Mr. Barnes’ case is that of an administrations utter refusal (either through indifference, arrogance or malice) to heed the experts. VT could have been avoided if the administrator followed procedure and heeded the warnings of faculty and staff.

In Mr. Barnes’ case, the administration yet again failed to follow procedure and to heed the advice of experts (a counsellor, psychiatrist, professors, and peers), it just so happens they were adamant that Mr. Barnes was never a threat to himself or others.

Anonymous, at 5:45 am EST on January 12, 2008

Virginia Tech does not equal Tragedy

Just a reminder: it happened a few times in the article and few times in these comments.

Please don’t use Virginia Tech as a synecdoche for the tragedy that happened there. Just think about it. It is a little thing really, but it’s pretty annoying for those us who call Virginia Tech home. We tend to call it “4/16″ by the way, but I don’t expect that term to get in everyone’s vocabulary.

Ed, at 5:45 am EST on January 12, 2008

The $100,000+ babysitters

Public college executive administrators are paid $100,000+ — to slip notes under doors?

What’s next — taking attendance? Dance monitors? Hall monitors?

What a frickin’ waste. What a frickin’ joke.

B.J.S., at 7:25 am EST on January 12, 2008

Today’s college kids are just being prepared for their future reality after college. Speak out and you will be expelled. The Administration will have a full record of anything you have said or done to justify this, and it will be held against you.

Lawrence Tureaud, at 12:10 pm EST on January 12, 2008

From everything the article has stated, the administrators in question look completely out of touch and asinine. This almost appears comical in it’s absurdity. If these people actually interpreted this kids facebook in that manner their incompetent and too reactionary for the good of their own students. If not then these administrators are incompetent and completely dishonest, I don’t know what is worse.

The kid was politically active and wanted his campus to stay the same for whatever reasons, his actions were vocal but fortunately he was one step ahead of the buffoons in charge. If I could express eyes rolling in text I would!

John Q, This is just sad at Rider University, at 2:30 pm EST on January 12, 2008

The Academy Is Doing A WONDERFUL Job

I am really encouraged for the future of American Higher Education after seeing Valdosta State’s energetic defense of this young man’s freedom of speech, thought and action.

Education is the United States is dying on the vine because of fascism such as this. Education in America is becoming indoctrination, and as disturbing as the parallel might be, is looking more and more like education in Wiemar Germany in its latter days.

And I think that we all know how that turned out.

This young man is clearly an engaged student and he should be readmitted on full scholarship. The President of this institution should have his tenure revoked.

David Persons, Associate Professor, at 4:55 pm EST on January 12, 2008

oh please

Wesley (et. al.), there’s a gaping abyss between political speech and deranged threats. And anyone — anyone — with the slightest shred of intellectual honesty could see that the communications (as reported in this article — presumably not all facts are presented) are squarely on the First Amendment side of that line.

Paul Gowder, at 7:35 pm EST on January 12, 2008

PCBS

The Class of 1968, which accommodated SDS thuggery plus Black Panthers parading shotguns before faculty senates, are now the PLO (Prevailing Liberal Orthodoxy). Cowards and draft-dodgers then, they are worse than cowards now.

No previous American generation could conceive such spoiled-brat elitists assuming regal airs. Craven, flagrantly dishonest to the core, everything they do and say redounds entirely to their discredit. No wonder Clintonisme is their plea du jour.

Keep at it, you self-righteous dolts. You’ve forever lost the young.

John Blake, at 7:35 pm EST on January 12, 2008

Funny that no-one seems to care that the University was perfectly willing to spend $30 million of students hard earned fees to build a car park which is how this all started. The University have clearly attempted to slander Barnes just to cover up their actions and guess what, it’s working. Everyone’s focus is on whether they’re in danger from someone peacefully expressing his mind instead of where their money is going

Stefan Dutch, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

Ridiculous

If a student poses a “clear and present danger,” it strikes me that slipping an expulsion notice under their door, then immediately leaving them unsupervised, is a very strange response. Any “clear and present danger” should be dealt with by the police.

Given the school’s handling, it seems that they’re either incompetent or using coercive force to silence critics. Which is it?

Luna, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

Student Voting?

The new building should be approved by students before any fees are added. Also shouldn’t the state also have to approve the building? There should be no problem with him using fliers as long as there was permission to post them on the school property. However the content on the fliers, emails, websites is what needs to be possibly questioned. The note under the door is also a really poor way of communicating to the student.

Jimmy, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

why is this only being published now?

any good reason? new developments in the case?

Peter, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

FIRE is right-wing hack group

I was suspicious as soon as I saw that Cato was affiliated with FIRE. So, I did some digging and sure enough, they’re right wingers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foun...ation#FIRE.27s_political_orientation

That doesn’t mean that this particular case is not meaninful and necessary — it just means that FIRE/Cato are using this case to build their ’street credibility’ — trying to appear not-to-obviously as a right-wing hack group.

Peter, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

America, the forgetful

Though I’m not from the US, as a student of history I can appreciate the amazing steps in human rights and progressive thought that the United States’ storied history represents. Subsequently I am saddened that your once great and free country has fallen so far from the ideals on which is was founded. The founding fathers of the US were astoundingly forward thinking libertarians, and some of their quotes ring so very true in this day an age.

“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security” — Benjamin Franklin

Ben Carey, at 6:40 am EST on January 13, 2008

wesley

I do point out that he was under the care of both the a school and private counselor who confirm that he was not a threat to himself or others. additionally he sought out this care himself — hardly the behavior of a dangerous man.

CHARLES, at 8:45 am EST on January 13, 2008

Hardly Anything New

This is hardly a new happening. It has been around in one form or another for many years now. If you are a conservative at a liberal university and you speak out against the schools one sided policy you get attacked. If you are a liberal at a conservative school it is the same. KInd of makes you wonder why universities make you take ethics classes as part of your degree.

Randy Smith, at 8:45 am EST on January 13, 2008

Shall we stop ignoring the obvious here? The university deemed spending 30 million dollars on a parking garage more important than say hiring qualified deans, professors, supplies...... Of course they want to get rid of the one student that wants to see the school teach by example by not wasting money effort and energy.

emlaws, at 12:05 pm EST on January 13, 2008

The terrorists won

While similar things have happened to students though-out the history of academic institutions, the usage of 9/11 or the VT shootings is proof that the terrorists are winning. We as a country are acting purely out of fear.

I happen to think that in this case there was no real fear. I believe the president just couldn’t handle criticism and went on a power-trip. But anyone justifying his reaction is giving in to fear.

The greatest terrorists are those that use events such as 9/11 to make you afraid.

Avi.mac@mail.ashevin.com, at 12:05 pm EST on January 13, 2008

Imagine the 60’s

Imagine if they had tried this during the activism of the 60’s?

How many of those former activists even care about this? Or are they now more concerned about security than rights?

D Perkins, at 12:05 pm EST on January 13, 2008

Good grief ... when I was a student in the 1960s we referred to the expensive, new administrative tower building as the “President’s Firstname Lastname Memorial Erection” and no one was expelled. A few years ago, the librarians in this area were referring to an expensive planned library as the “Burton Barr Memorial Library” because that county commissioner managed to get it in his nieghborhood when the need was elsewhere. No one was fired or sent to counseling.

Sounds like the president has an enhanced sense of his own importance in the scheme of things.

Tsu Dho Nimh, at 12:45 pm EST on January 13, 2008

question

It mentioned that the administrator resigned/retired/quit 6 months early. Is there any possibility that one in his position could have used this as a pretext for this early retirement? I don’t know, but, if he had a contract with the university and wanted out early, this could provide that context. The manifestations of the Administrator would seem to show a subjective fear for his life. for example: the plainclothes policeman, police on “high alert", meeting with counselors...

anonymous, question, at 3:35 pm EST on January 13, 2008

The Right to be Callous

I don’t care that the VT shootings or Columbine or any of these other tragedies happened (which is not to say that I don’t feel for the families—I do). I firmly believe I have a right to wish doom on people I don’t like, whether they be co-workers, bosses, or university presidents.

And I have a right to do this without being fear of such off the cuff statements being twisted into allegations that I am some sort of imminent danger.

Anyone who claims to have never wished a terrible fate on another person is a liar.

surlygrad, at 4:00 pm EST on January 13, 2008

Reminds me of Meet The Parents

When Stiller says “It’s not like I have a bomb on there", and he gets pulled off the plane and the FBI agents goes “You said bomb on an airplane". Ridiculous.

Sef, at 5:20 pm EST on January 13, 2008

Response to Peter

Peter, you are not the first to accuse FIRE of being part of a vast right-wing conspiracy.

I refer you to the following comment at the Chronicle for Higher Education.

http://chronicle.com/news/article...ech-codes-abound-report-says#c008065

Anonymous, at 7:15 pm EST on January 13, 2008

If he was a really a dangerous person, wouldn’t something like slipping an expulsion notice under his door be the most likely thing to set off a VT style rampage? The administrations actions certainly do not match their stated worries.

Ben Skott, at 9:30 pm EST on January 13, 2008

Appropriate Response

Assuming that the story presented is consistent with the facts it would seem to me that the institution should be subjected to real and serious prenalties unless they take immediate steps to reinstate the student and compensate him for their wrongdoing. Specifically:

1) Their acedemic credentials should be revoked2) Any and all public funding of any kind should be withdrawn

The student is presumably suing the involved individuals for defamation among other things and as the aministration has failed to reverse this action it should be found liable in addition to any responsible individuals. The individual who illegially shared protected medical records needs to be incarcerated for a lengthy period.

Signs of the Apocalypse, at 9:25 am EST on January 14, 2008

@Wesley

Obviously you’re just looking for a sensationalist high off this or you’d have actually read the article, and this is assuming that you’re behavior is from a bad personality and not being too incompetent to read the article. This is a clear cut case of the school abusing power to silence someone critical of what it’s head is doing. Yeah, the kid had been in for counseling, but maybe it was for stress from having trouble in a class, pair that with the report made that he presented no danger to himself or those around him and it’s obvious the school is in the wrong.

I don’t like it when VT is brought up since I know many of those who were there want to just forget it, but your conclusion that if VT had removed the student there would’ve been similar uproar is wrong. At VT it was known by those in power that he was seriously troubled and dangerous and they did nothing, here they’re doing something to someone they know is not troubled or dangerous at all. THAT ALONE is the reason they’re getting flack for this, because there is no justification for what they have done.

Ix, at 9:55 am EST on January 14, 2008

Comes Back To Vanity

This president wanted a structure as his legacy. Something to point at and say “I did that.” Someone stood up and said “wow, that’s idiotic.” Well, that threatens his “vision.” He had no choice but to kick the young man out of school for his own selfish purposes. Look, VT was a tragedy, but this is ridiculous. This is people using the deaths of innocent youths to their own ends. When I was in college, I was taught to research an issue before making rash judgments based on the surface. Seeing a link that says “shoot it” in the digital age should have prompted investigation and not assumption — especially in an institution of higher learning!!! Perhaps faculty should be required to keep up on the modern world when teaching its youth??? This case is a joke and I hope this young man takes this college’s board and president down. This was a scam and a ridiculous mess.

James Snider, at 10:50 am EST on January 14, 2008

Can’t say I wouldn’t expect such

I grew up about 60 miles from Valdosta, so I have heard lots of horror stories about the administration at Valdosta State University (largely from high school teachers who had went there for their degrees). For example, people not receiving their diplomas on time due to bookkeeping problems in their administrative offices and problems with students being flatly ignored by the staff and administration. I hope this guy wins big against the school, although the University System of Georgia has a problem with the “good old boy” system in the courts(their lawyers are usually best pals with the judge/judges), so best of luck to him.

Winchester, at 10:50 am EST on January 14, 2008

.... we’ve seen this before....

this reminds me of the student-teacher who got her teaching credential and degree revoked from millersville university in delaware on the eve of graduation because she had a non-defacing halloween picture of herself holding a red plastic cup (contents not visible) with a caption “drunken pirate.” The justification is that she was a teacher at a middle school whose mascot was a pirate, so she was in turn “promoting” drinking to underage students...

seems a little absurd seeing how we all have friends who are teachers that are adults and good people, who happen to celebrate halloween and have a drink... without promoting underage drinking...

i work in a science laboratory funded by various organizations whose underlying belief is evolution and life developing over time...

maybe i should be fired if there is a pix of me attending a religious function because it directly implies that i believe in creationism, which contradicts my employers philosophies.... oh yeah, civil liberties...

here is a link of a first hand experience with some references, for those that had missed this previously... http://pzc-woodshed.blogspot.com/...y-millersville-university-is-on.html

Clizzo, at 12:45 pm EST on January 14, 2008

I attend VSU and I hadn’t even really heard about this until a while after it happened. They’ve been keeping it under wraps pretty well down here, and then the school paper finally got it headlined on the front page. I am kind of surprised they even got that article out.

your mother, at 2:10 am EST on January 24, 2008

Conform or get out

As a past student of VSU, they are extremely right wing. There are few students who are “out of the norm” or stand out. They don’t know what to do with students who have an opinion. I understand every one’s anxiety about school safety, but school faculty should have done a better job at encouraging free thought and perhaps help students start a club who opposed the new construction. I was extremely involved on that campus and I am ashamed to be a former student.

Katie, at 12:30 am EST on February 21, 2008

As a resident of Valdosta, I’m probably closer to the facts than your story is, which appears slanted toward the student, bless his little tiny, opportunistic heart. But forget who’s wrong or right here, what would be your story if Zaccari & Them did nothing and the kid shot up the campus three weeks later? “Somebody shudda done something, the warning signs were there.” That sound about right?

Mike Hill, at 8:20 pm EDT on April 28, 2008

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