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June 17
Getting Past the Gatekeeper
Among Al Alt’s duties at Yuba College is making sure the degrees are legitimate — at the point of hire, or when professors or others at the California community college file the paperwork to qualify for higher pay based on earning a new degree.
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Over the past few years, Alt has learned the various places one can reliably check to be sure an institution is accredited by a recognized agency — one of the key requirements at Yuba and most colleges to get credit for a degree. But in a sign of how widespread the problem may be with unaccredited degrees, Alt last year had to tell his bosses to lower his own salary: A doctorate he earned after he started work at Yuba — and for which he was paid extra — apparently came from an unaccredited institution, he said, so his salary needed to be cut.
Yuba has found that Alt did nothing wrong — he believed that Madison University, which awarded him the doctorate, was legitimate and was in the process of earning appropriate accreditation. Madison today makes no such claims — although it still operates. (In case you are wondering, we’re not talking about the University of Wisconsin at Madison, or James Madison University, but just Madison University, which operates online out of Gulfport, Miss.)
Alt’s story may illustrate the vigilance with which colleges need to monitor degrees and just who is awarding them.
He started work on his doctorate in 2001, in education administration, and focused on online universities. He recalls that Madison said it was accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council — which is a recognized accrediting body. Alt completed work on his doctorate in 2004, and he said that the rigor seemed comparable to courses he had taken for his master’s degree at California State University at Chico. There may have been clues, of course. Alt said that while he had to submit a dissertation, he never had to defend it. At any rate, he was awarded his doctorate in 2004, processed the paperwork, and his salary went up by around $2,000.
In 2006 and 2007, Alt began to worry. In his work, he was questioning the legitimacy of degrees awarded to some Yuba employees and several responded by asking him how he had any basis for judging them when he had a dubious doctorate. It was the first he had heard any questions, he said, about the legitimacy of Madison. So Alt started investigating his own degree. The first thing he noticed was that Madison’s Web site had no mention of accreditation — although that’s not how he remembers it previously.
The section on Madison’s Web site that is called “accreditation and recognition” pretty much says that Madison isn’t accredited.
“Madison University is a private, postsecondary distance learning institution. The courses and curriculum we provide consist of college level material that is consistent with the academic quality of traditional campus based programs. Our mission is to provide mid-career professionals with a flexible and affordable way to obtain higher education and complete their degrees,” the Web site says. “The university will accept transfer credits from any accredited university, community college or technical institution regardless of the method in which the courses were completed. Madison University has an open enrollment program with a study-at your-own-pace philosophy. The university is not not listed with any government agency or the U.S. Department of Education and is not designed to meet the needs of students intending to use federal funds.”
The Web site goes on to say that Madison is a member of the United States Distance Learning Association, but that’s an association, not an accreditor, and that association specifically lists Madison — along with many other members — as non-accredited institutions. The Distance Education and Training Council, which is an accreditor, says that Madison is not accredited and has never applied. Michael P. Lambert, executive director of the council, said that he frequently hears about colleges saying that they are applying to be members. But while many accrediting groups have provisional recognition procedures, Lambert said that his doesn’t, and that colleges are either accredited or not, and that “seeking accreditation” can mean someone called his office once, but nothing more.
Alt said that, upon discovering this, he called, sent letters, and called again to Madison — trying to get information to confirm that when he earned his degree, the university was accredited. He said he couldn’t get anyone to call him back. While Alt said he feels that he learned from the program and worked hard, when he determined that he couldn’t demonstrate that his doctorate was from an accredited institution, he reported his situation to superiors and asked to have his salary lowered back to what it would be without a doctorate. (Alt’s position did not require a doctorate, and he was hired without one, so he noted that this did not affect his qualifications to perform his job.)
Madison’s current status is unclear. A spokeswoman told The Appeal-Democrat, a California newspaper that first wrote about Alt’s disappearing doctorate, that its programs were “100 percent completely legitimate,” but that Madison was closed and was seeking accreditation. A call to Madison Monday was answered by someone who said that the college was open and accepting students. That person said only one person at Madison could answer reporters’ questions. She did not respond to messages.
While Madison currently claims no accreditation, it has in the past claimed to be accredited by the World Association of Universities and Colleges. Past versions of Madison’s Web site, available through the Wayback Machine, show that the association is described as “a global accreditation association.” The World Association of University and Colleges’ Web site notes that it is not recognized by the U.S. government and portrays the official accreditation system as one in which accreditors and colleges “are believed to work together with the purpose of eliminating schools who are financially competitive with traditional residence institutions.”
Alan L. Contreras, administrator of the Office of Degree Authorization of the Oregon Student Assistance Commission, said that there are books published annually listing accredited institutions and that he was “astonished” that a college official responsible for enforcing degree rules could miss relevant information. But the problem is broader, he said, in that Mississippi has been a “cesspool of degree mills,” although he said that the state is making progress on fixing that.
Contreras noted that California has been heatedly debating how to regulate for-profit colleges, and said that this incident showed just why tough oversight is needed.
Alt said that it has become much easier in recent years to check all the possible places a college could be accredited — and that such checks are important. He said he would advise anyone considering a course from an institution that wasn’t 100 percent known as legit to “get written verification on who they are accredited by, how long they are accredited for, and any conditions on accreditation.”
And Alt said to remember that there are plenty of people like him — people who move into higher education without knowing on Day One all about things to be wary of. “I was brand new in the system,” he said. “This could happen to someone new to the system.”
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Comments
“Alt completed work on his doctorate in 2004, and he said that the rigor seemed comparable to courses he had taken for his master’s degree at California State University at Chico.”
That should have been Mr. Alt’s first clue that he wasn’t enrolled in a legitimate doctoral program...
Dr.RingDing, at 9:25 am EDT on June 17, 2008
Only now?
Let’s see: He started work on his doctorate part-time (it was online) in 2001 and finished it three years later, it was an “open-enrollment” doctoral program, he never had to defend his dissertation, and only now this strikes him as suspicious?
Oh, please!
LK, at 9:30 am EDT on June 17, 2008
Al Alt And Brian McNamee
Okay Al, join the ranks of the former Dr. Brian McNamee of the former Columbus University (Louisiana) of Roger Clemens’ Senate Hearing fame.
http://diplomamillnews.blogspot.c...mcnamee-takes-center-stage-with.html
The sale of doctorates in America continues unabated, even with those “credit for experience” diploma mills of yesteryear gaining current “respectability” and filling the ranks of college and university faculty and staff all over the land.
Frizbane Manley, at 7:40 am EDT on June 18, 2008
Getting past...
Yuba might want to replace its gatekeeper. I suppose that a naive person could be taken in, but that person should not be responsible for making judgements about others’ credentials. Also, the state of California really needs to get its act together regarding for profit institutions.
Lar, at 10:30 am EDT on June 17, 2008
Defense of dissertation
I received my PhD from the University of California at Berkeley in 1979 and did not have to defend my dissertation. I just had to get the 3 signatures.
Jane, at 10:35 am EDT on June 17, 2008
I applaud Al Alt for having the integrity to investigate his own degree and then honestly report his findings to his employers, despite losing financially as a result.
Whether he “should have known” is a separate issue; that he responded ethically once he did know is commendable.
Anita L., at 11:15 am EDT on June 17, 2008
Jane is right
I was reading this and noticed the part about not having to defend the dissertation, and thought, hmmm, I didn’t have to defend at Berkeley, just get the three signatures, and Berkeley was at the time considered the top graduate school in the country, probably still is. Then I noticed that the respondents said that anyone knows that at all legitimate schools you have to defend your dissertation, that should be a dead giveaway, and I thought, hmmm, how bad is it that we didn’t have to defend anything at Berkeley? Could something be amiss? So I was glad to see that Jane wrote in about this. A top university doesn’t think defending a dissertation is all that.
By the way, if Al Alt did this research for his doctorate, why doesn’t he publish it in a peer-reviewed journal? That might be a good acid test for the credibility of his doctoral education.
someone, at 11:35 am EDT on June 17, 2008
Berkeley & thesis defense
It is true that UCB does not have a formal thesis defense requirement. But here is what it does have (at least in the doctoral program I went through) : 1) prelim exam (6 hours; written; usually in the first two years). 2) qualifying exam (3 hours; oral; admission to candidacy). 3) language exam (written translation of relevant scientific literature). 4) at least one research seminar presentation on the subject of your thesis.The latter is typically used in lieu of defense before the committee members agree to sign the dissertation.
someone_somewhere, at 11:50 am EDT on June 17, 2008
no defense at Yale either
I didn’t have an oral defense of my dissertation at Yale either. The practice there, as I understood it, was that the dissertation advisor had to present and defend it to the department faculty. I was told the results of that meeting later.
someone else, at 12:50 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
“to qualify for higher pay based on earning a new degree”
This is the deep root of the problem right here. No one should ever get a pay raise in any job for getting a degree; they should get a pay raise for demonstrated ability in performance of the job, whether they have a degree or not.
Reader, at 1:35 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
Maybe people should get raises based on how well they do their jobs.
Math Prof, at 1:35 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
About Defending A Dissertation At UC-Berkeley And Yale
I thought everyone knew that at the Tier 3 and Tier 4 schools it’s trivial to get in and somewhat difficult to get out. But at the elites, it’s difficult to get in and trivial to get out. The latter just hate to admit it when they make an (admissions) mistake.
Frizbane Manley, at 1:35 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
In 2001 they did represent themselves as being accredited. The website can be easily accessed through the internet archive.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010202064800/http://madisonu.com/
And I quote:
“Madison University is accredited by the World Association of Universities and Colleges. W.A.U.C. is a global accreditation association founded to establish and promote global standards in higher education among colleges and universities worldwide. W.A.U.C. is a private accrediting association not listed with any government agency or the U.S. Department of Education, and is not designed to meet the needs of students intending to utilize federal funds.”
C E M, at 2:05 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
beans
“...he believed that Madison University, which awarded him the doctorate, was legitimate...”
This brings to mind a story about the philosopher Sidney Morgenbesser. From his obituary in the New York Times (December 26, 2004, http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/26/magazine/26MORGENBESSER.html ):
“During a talk on the philosophy of language at Columbia in the 50’s, [J.L.] Austin noted that while a double negative amounts to a positive, never does a double positive amount to a negative. From the audience, a familiar nasal voice [Morgenbesser] muttered a dismissive, ‘Yeah, yeah.’ ”
George Gollin, Professor of Physics at University of Illinois, at 2:05 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
nasty crowd
I think many of the comments here are unwarranted. While Al should have looked into the program more carefully, he should be commended for doing the right thing when he realized his foolishness. There are plenty of high-profile academics out there, two historians of popular history fame come to mind, who have continued on the path of denial even after being called out quite clearly for plagiarism, even in their dissertation. While Al might not have a legitimate PhD, he demonstrated the ethics that should be the standard for our profession, while plenty of legitimate PhDs have not.
QuakerProf, at 2:05 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
Ph.D. Defence at Yale
someone else: In 1991, I had a 2+ hour oral defense for my Ph.D. at Yale. Not only that, but the committee had to include tenured faculty from outside the Department, so it wasn’t just a Departmental rubber stamp. In fact, the supervisor was explicitly not allowed to Chair the committee: that had to be a full professor not affiliated with the project.
RW, at 2:05 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
Berkeley and Yale
All the PhD grads from Berkeley I know were not required to have an oral defence of their dissertations. Yale requires it in some departments and not in others; I’ve never been able to figure out why since this is a university award, not a departmental one. As to someone_somewhere’s litany of Berkeley requirements as a defense for the lack of an oral exam, the public university I attended required (1) a qualifying exam (6 hours), (2) a prelim exam (9 days), (3) a research paper (prior to dissertation), (4) a dissertation proposal (written and oral defense), (5) a dissertation defense (written and oral (3 hours)). No excuse for Berkeley not to have an oral dissertation defense. It’s just weird. And as for the “observation” that the “elites” are tough to get into but trivial to get out of, that’s pure crap. I’ve taught at two Ivy League schools and another “elite” and the expectations of doctoral students is high. We expect the graduates to conduct research which will be publishable in the top journals and to get jobs at the top universities; that doesn’t happen by doing trivial work.
another someone, at 9:45 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
While serving on dissertation committees in 3 different departments at an R1 university, I have never seen anyone actually fail in their oral defense. (It is the advisor’s responsibility to see that a student at risk of failing is discouraged from scheduling it to begin with.)
On the other hand, I have seen many grad students strongly (& often constructively) criticized in their seminar presentations, leading to a major rewriting of the thesis or (in extreme cases) even to abandonment of the key ideas underlying the project. None of such candid criticisms are likely to be voiced during the actual defense. To me it is pretty clear that (at least in the US) the traditional “oral defense” is now largely an empty ritual and, in some cases, an opportunity for posturing & bloviation of bored faculty members. I see required seminar presentation (summarizing the original research; to be delivered in the last year before the actual thesis is submitted to the committee) as a much more efficient mechanism both for guiding the students & for the professional gatekeeping.
someone_somewhere, at 10:35 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
A matter of degree, not kind
The credibility of degrees and the institutions that award them have always been a weak link in American higher education. It has worsened as all forms of accreditation continue to deteriorate and flatline. In part, this follows the federal government’s attempt to maintain a durable list of acceptable accreditors. The process remains political, unreliable, and self serving. It is also unreliable.
The public simply doesn’t have a clue how fragile and imprecise the enterprise is. Nor does the government have an understanding of what accreditation used to be and what it has become under the indulgent demands for career training, job preparation, and fund development in higher education.
Dogs have been awarded graduate degrees as have deceased persons. Degrees are openly sold on the internet with ease. Public demand is there. In this new environment, it is no longer reasonably clear what a college is, ought to be, or might be. Again, the public does not have a clue!
Institutional “control” over the degree granting process, despite emotive claims to the contrary, is all but absent and is dependent on processes and practices that vary with the players at any moment. Tales like those presented above are the norm; quality control of any duration is the exception.
And now the push is to export the great American dream abroad; clearly an effort to establish alternative revenue streams from global clientele. This is capitalism at its finest. It’s actually one of the best product commodities that is, as of now, not yet made in China.
Bob P., at 11:50 pm EDT on June 17, 2008
Regional Accreditiation
It seems that the biggest mistake Mr. Alt made when deciding to enroll in a doctoral program was not insisting that the school of his choice have regional accreditation, one of the gold standards in the U.S. for demonstrating quality. Regardless of one’s personal opinions on the state of accreditation in the U.S., this is still the recognition needed to be a legitimate institution and receive federal aid.
Ann, at 7:41 am EDT on June 18, 2008
Response To someone_somewhere
My dissertation was titled something like “Multivariate Probability Models of Voting Under Majority Rule,” and my committee consisted of four statisticians, two mathematicians, and a political scientist.
My “defense” began with the usual “Please give us a twenty minute overview of the substance of your research.” I did so, and after quickly answering a couple of trivial questions, my committee got into a political argument amongst themselves that lasted for more than two hours. Occasionally I would contribute something innocuous just to let them know I was still in the room (in truth, I was a close friend of everyone on my committee).
Then they “invited me out,” and in less than five minutes asked me back into the room with the usual “Congratulations Doctor Manley” all around. I vividly recall three emotions ...
* relief that this nonsense was over and I could return to scholarly – not academic – pursuits.
* annoyance with myself for having wasted so much time on such inconsequential activities.
* disgust that so many of my non-academic acquaintances thought I was now “someone special.”
In my lifetime (I’m 71) I have only written Ph.D. after my name when it was absolutely necessary (e.g. on grant proposals), and I have always objected to being called doctor (my students call me “Mr. Manley.”)
Frizbane Manley, at 7:40 am EDT on June 18, 2008
to Mr. Manley
Our current defenses typically include a much longer overview (60 to 120 minutes) & most committee members usually read the thesis in advance & submit their comments in writing prior to the actual oral defense. Still, the procedure itself is a bit silly. Which, in my opinion, does not devalue the accomplishment. I dislike being called Dr. Someone because it smacks of pomposity & self-importance. But today’s Ph.D. is simply a professional license for a range of scholarly pursuits.
P.S. Given the title of your dissertation, it seems likely that you will find Michel Balinski’s work to be of interest. See http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/104/21/8720.pdf and http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Repres...=books&qid=1213798746&sr=8-1
someone_somewhere, at 10:40 am EDT on June 18, 2008
Hoops to jump through
In my experience at Berkeley I had (1) and (2) as requirements and none of these others:
(1) a qualifying exam (6 hours), (2) a prelim exam (9 days), (3) a research paper (prior to dissertation), (4) a dissertation proposal (written and oral defense), (5) a dissertation defense (written and oral (3 hours)).
Also there was no requirement for a foreign language. It was abolished the year before I started at Berkeley, but engineering PhD students often met it with Fortran. Really.
Still, I don’t agree with Frizbane “But at the elites, it’s ... trivial to get out.” My advisor was no help on my dissertation and it was not trivial to get the 3 signatures.
Some other time I’ll tell you about Swarthmore. Also not trivial to get out.
Jane, at 12:35 pm EDT on June 18, 2008
Oh, My. No!
The author said: “Alt’s story may illustrate the vigilance with which colleges need to monitor degrees and just who is awarding them.”
No. While I agree the colleges and their accrediting associations may be able to impact this issue, that’s not where the problem lies. It sits with whomever enables this kind of fraud. It sits with state licensing boards—the ones like Mississippi that allow diploma mills to operate. It lies with the customers—the ones like Alt who think they can get away with it. And, most of all, it sits with employers who hire these people—or recognize these fake degrees later on.
In my own doctoral dissertation on this very subject, I concluded that employers don’t look and don’t care.
Alt said he concetrated on online learning for his doctorate. Really? What the heck did he learn? He claimed the fake degree for years after buying it.
Finally, let’s suspend disbelief for a moment and accept his tale of woe. Okay, where’s his dissertation? Who supervised it? What about his other coursework? What did he do to earn the degree and who approved it? Considering the school in question is not known to have conducted actual instruction, I doubt those things exist. (If they do, he’s even more foolish than he lets on. Doing the work for a “degree” from a degree mill that would just as soon sell it to him without the work is really dumb.)
Rich Douglas, at 7:30 pm EDT on June 19, 2008
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Diploma Mills
Absolutely no excuse for someone in higher education. He should have known to look for the word accreditation. To get a good doctorate takes time, not only should his salary be changed, he should also resign. Every educator should know that you defend your dissertation. Also, just as there is a “cess pool” of institutions, there is a “cess Pool” of accreditation agencies.
Janet Moye Cornick, Senior Policy Analyst, at 9:25 am EDT on June 17, 2008