Class doesn’t matter in grad school

I don’t see why socioeconomic class matters in graduate school admissions. Everyone has gotten a college education at this point and will be poor for the next four to six years while living on a grad student stipend.

It’s not fair to future college students to not have their professors be of the highest quality, no matter what the professor’s parent(s) did for a living.

With that being said, financial aid is important after admitting the best possible students regardless of class.

Robert, PhD Student, at 7:55 am EDT on July 9, 2008

As a recently admitted PhD student from a lower economic class, I have mixed feelings about this. With academic careers more typically going to those of wealthier stock, I wondered about any sort of diversity determination in the admissions decision for us ‘poorer’ students: first of the family to graduate college, parents hold low income jobs, etc. As someone who made it this far, I wanted to be judged on my hard work, not given an extra nod because I’m not that well off. And for the most part, that’s what happened. Only one school out of the many that I applied to asked some sort of economic class questions, and that was U of Michigan. And I doubt that it made any difference in the decision. I wasn’t the best fit for their program (based off my interests and personal statement), and was subsequently denied admission.

Should socioeconomic status be included in admissions decisions? I don’t know. I think the number of those types of students applying to graduate programs needs to be ascertained. I would be interested in how many are applying and seeing if there is a problem there before tackling this admissions question.

first timer, at 9:20 am EDT on July 9, 2008

Considering quality and class

I concur with both JP’s comments and questions. I have wondered why the conversation in undergraduate admissions about making sure that low-income students have an opportunity to not just attend college but attend prestigious and selective institutions has not gained traction in graduate admissions. I believe lower SES students do not necessarily develop the supports, self-confidence, and cultural capital that students from higher-income backgrounds, where parents have gone to graduate school or where peers go on to graduate school. It is worth considering what different perspectives and skills students from lower SES backgrounds can bring and if admissions offices can already glean that from statements of purpose or other pieces of the application, or not. I also believe it would be important for schools that seek greater diversity of all kinds to explicitly talk about, and reach out to, students from lower-income backgrounds. Some schools might already be looking for it when the rare applicant finds them, but are they ‘walking the walk and talking the talk’ by publicly stating so and including this population in their recruitment efforts?In conclusion, I find it hard to believe that just because a student graduates from X regional state university, that the quality of their grades and recommendations are inherently inferior to those of an Ivy graduate and I think this is an issue in more than a few very selective admissions offices.

Grad Admissions Officer, Assistant Director of Admissions, at 9:45 am EDT on July 9, 2008

Of course

” .. Those who support discrimination work mightily to keep anti-affirmative action proposals off the ballot for just that reason ..”

Of course. It is to their advantage. And they will not give it up, for 10,000+ years, without a tremendous fight and/or cost.

Meanwhile, polls show voter confidence of Congress — who help fund that advantage — at 9%. Mere coincidence — or telling tale?

Buzz, at 10:45 am EDT on July 9, 2008

I would qualify, I think

I have a Ph. D. from a major university, but my mother only went to 8th grade, so I guess I would qualify for preferential admission today if these standards were applied. But why? I did graduate from a 4-year college that I got into b/c I got a great score on SAT. Once you have that Bachelors in hand, it kind of levels the field again. My son recently went through the grad school application thing, and put down that both parents had Ph. D. degrees—I thought to his “disadvantage” sad to say, although in reality a grad school in its right mind would say the best predictor of future behavior would be past behavior, and he had not one, but two role models to imitate. I will say that I had a tough time because when I asked my parents for advice, they had none to give. They never went to college so just said keep going and DO NOT DARE DROP OUT. But a grad school should take the applicants most likely to stick around and finish. Based on my test scores and GPA, I was a likely candidate, and so I got in. Since I “didn’t dare drop out,” I made it. But as a semi-retired professor, I am dismayed that college admissions seem more to look at who gets in, and not who gets through. I have had a lot of minority students in my classes who did not get the support they needed to make it through, and didn’t have that “you don’t dare drop out” mentality (okay, Mom was Prussian) and so they left after Columbus Day. I was always sad, because I saw them as like me—and wanted to help them break trail—but Admissions had made their quota, and then what? Is grad school somehow different? They told look left and right, only one of the three of you will finish. You need relentless persistence to finish. Put THAT into your admissions criteria. Find a Prussian mother.

one of these, at 12:20 pm EDT on July 9, 2008

Thank you, Jaschik, for bringing attention to this issue. As an advanced doctoral student (humanities) who is first gen, I struggle with the different form of learning that occurs in nonprofessional graduate study. (I also have a JD from an Ivy.) The most significant difference I see is the role of relationships in the PhD process, something my class background didn’t prepare me for. Nothing to do with test scores/performance; nothing to do with “smarts.” Fortunately, my program has supports for first gen folks. But I am consistently startled by how many of my student colleagues come from professional class families, especially including parent(s) with PhDs, and the know-how they bring to the table about how to cultivate relationships. We need to collect, track, and study the role of class more effectively in graduate programs, not only for admissions but also student support and retention. I applaud Oldfield’s efforts.

A First Gen, at 12:20 pm EDT on July 9, 2008

Affirmative action for farm kids?

One of my college roomates was from a two-income farm family, first in his family to go to college. As compared to certain political candidates with grandparents who were successful bankers.

Why shouldn’t my old roommate get the same AA points as a B.H. Obama? Answer: there is no logical reason — only 35-year-old arguments.

How hard do working farm kids have it? From IHE’s files: if it is hard for rural areas to attract MDs — why do medical schools advantage non-rural kids with BMWs and Kaplan help?

http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/facilitating_distribution.htm

Frank, at 2:35 pm EDT on July 9, 2008

If universities were truly interested in adding diversity to enrich the classroom environment, they would focus on ideological diversity but god forbid we allow for differing viewpoints.

midwest, at 2:35 pm EDT on July 9, 2008

Oh, how I wish socioeconomic class had been considered in grad admissions! One of 2 scenarios might have played out:

1-Maybe I wouldn’t have been admitted. I would have found a productive career when my undergrad degree was fresh [and so was I] and I would have saved myself the mountain of debt, psychological damage created by bullying administrators & faculty, and wouldn’t now be virtually unemployable after dropping out of grad school because I simply could no longer afford to continue paying my own university for the privilege of teaching their undergraduates.

2-I would have been awarded enough funding to enable me to finish the degree(s) without submitting myself to the whims, abuse, and neglect of administrators and faculty supervisors.

Either would be preferable to being placed in direct competition with people whose families could routinely help them with the following: rent money, new computers, [used or new] cars [+insurance], vacations, travel money, advance credit to actually get to conferences without incurring huge personal debt [that may or may not be reimbursed months later by the department].

Children of working class or poverty-level parents cannot possibly compete at the same level with those of middle and upper class backgrounds and resources.

It’s not 1972 anymore. People need to stop pretending the opportunities that allowed open [and potentially equivalent] access to grad school still exist uniformly across higher ed. They don’t. And they haven’t for quite some time.

Poverty-stricken drop-out, at 3:40 pm EDT on July 9, 2008

How is it possible to favor an allegedly “lower class” applicant without discriminating against an allegedly “upper class” applicant? Indeed, how is it possible to “diversify” admissions without disciminating against somebody? Taking account of anything other than academic achievement in admissions is a wretched idea.

Michael Barton, at 5:00 am EDT on July 10, 2008