(Certain) Racial Assessments Miss Other Stereotypes

The problem with only assessing “racial” stereotypes is that you miss out on other stereotypes. For example, as a person from Texas, I am often made fun of by people of a liberal bent just for being from Texas. Republican students (and i’m not one) who speak out in classes I see get made fun of by professors, TAs, and students. The same goes for liberal students at a conservative colleges.

And as for racial stereotypes that are acceptable, the most prominent, yet undiscussed, is the idea of a “red neck” or “white trash.” Yet students from this economic and social background face the same problems as other minority groups who are not “white.”

This isn’t to say that there is some truth that Asians are stereotyped, and not everyone lives up to the average. But with a higher income per-average than Americans of European ancestry and a higher-rate of graduation and college attendance, it seems doubtful to me that the author’s conclusion for more positive discrimination is off the mark. To end the types of stereotypes discussed, discrimination is surely not going to be the thing to change it.

Texas Aggie, at 6:35 am EDT on July 18, 2008

What about class?

This story doesn’t mention that Asian American studies are perceived as being more wealthy than other students. They’re perceived as being the high-achieving children of doctors and scientists who are on the same career path. The perception (right or wrong) may be, “Why should I feel all that sorry for white-collar kids?” Why is socioeconomic class (or perception thereof) always overlooked when it comes to asking questions about why this or that group doesn’t get the sympathy it thinks it deserves?

The same goes for gay American activists. They don’t seem to realize that they are now perceived as being wealthier than other Americans (because they work in highly visible “creative” professions), and that might be a reason why many Americans don’t particularly think they need as much sympathy. “Gay bashing? I don’t see any gay bashing...”

That’s not MY attitude; I’m just wondering if socioeconomic status is clouding perceptions. No one in America ever wants to talk about CLASS... yet it still cuts across racial and sexual identity lines like a knife...

Donna, at 10:25 am EDT on July 18, 2008

I am disturbed by the above discussion and the responses that follow in that both miss an important point. The authors of the book no doubt mention it there, even if not here, but I think it’s critical to emphasize that “Asian Americans” are not one group!

There are enormous differences in the historical position, cultures, resources, and experiences of Asians in America today. Stereotypes and generalizations blind us to those critical differences. It is unfair to generalize from the experiences of Japanese Americans, for example. How can you compare a Hmong student (who may be the child of immigrants with no written tradition and who may have grown up in sometimes dire poverty) with a fourth-generation Japanese American (child of American-born, generally middle class parents). Break out the statistics tracking the academic success of Asian American students by national heritage, and you will see a much more nuanced picture — a troubling one. In general Southeast Asian students have access to FAR less economic resources and have a much, much harder path than that of students from groups here in the US for several generations.

The myth of the model minority is indeed a myth.

kesaya e. noda, at 12:00 pm EDT on July 18, 2008

“There are enormous differences in the historical position, cultures, resources, and experiences of Asians in America today.”

I totally agree with the above statement.

It’s a stereotype that all Asian-Americans came from upper middle class backgrounds. I have had family in US since 1850 but because of racially discriminatory laws, my grandfathers wasn’t able to bring over their families. As a result, I am a child of immigrants, very poor immigrants. Even though my parents worked about 80 hours a week with two days off a year – Thanksgiving and Christmas, our family income was below the poverty level. We had no health coverage, never had a car and didn’t have a phone until I was 10. I didn’t know any middle class children, Asian-American or otherwise. I went to a high school with immigrant children and didn’t learn how to write until I was in college. My aspirations for college weren’t the elite schools but the local college where 80% of students were first generation college goers. Because of my college boards I received a state scholarship that paid my tuition but had to work three jobs to pay for my way through college.

I believe that both class and race had equal impact on my social development. In graduate school, I resented those students from privileged backgrounds who took things for granted; it didn’t matter whether they were from a European or Asian background. I felt insecure about my class background. I was also frequently reminded of my race; even though I was born here and speak English without an accent, people always assumed that I was a foreigner. I never felt like I fitted in because the foreign-born Asians saw me as American and the others saw me as Asian. It still bothers me when people ask where I was born. At least now that I am older, I don’t get called racist names. But even today when I am in a crowd of mostly Asian-looking people, I sometimes feel vulnerable. Paranoid? About ten years ago a white supremacist shot into a group of people who had Asian features.

That said, I feel that I am fortunate because, despite being poor, my parents always emphasized the importance of working hard and getting a college education (even though they were bewildered that I continued on to graduate school instead of getting a real job). Is this a part of Asian culture? Perhaps, but I knew other Asian-American children whose parents were not as supportive and they ended up at minimum wage jobs. And I learned very early that stereotypes are harmful and hurtful and that our society would be a better place if our judgments of people are solely based on their behavior.

An Asian-American from a working class background

J Barrett, at 2:55 pm EDT on July 18, 2008

For everyone who gets a leg up in the education system someone else gets a boot down. When race is made an issue is there ever a fair outcome? So is the solution to give preference to Asian students because they’re non-white while denying a position to a freckle faced kid off of a mountain side in Arkansas whose accent screams special needs? Everyone is an individual and should have equal opportunity in a color blind system.

Dennis Ruhl, at 4:00 pm EDT on July 20, 2008

No Victims?

Eh, bien, Assistant Professor! Are you suggesting that academics create victims rather than systematic behaviors and a host of unjust legal policies? Do you think that the decendents of interred Japanese are somehow not victims, just because they eeked degrees out of the whole shameful episode?

Is it not possible for someone to be at once a victim and a hero, or at least a victim and a survivor? Perhaps the real danger of the victim label is that the victim will see her/himself as only that. But I suspect that the real threat of the victim label to some is that then others would have to be labeled as victimizers and oppressors or would have to admit that they were descendents of such wrongdoers and possibly benefitted from the wrongdoing. Again, the terms do not have to be mutually exclusive. A person can be simultaneously a benficiary of institutionalized racism (or any other -ism) and a virtuous person.

If academics focus a great deal on victims, it is because we as a body of scholars have a responsability to (1) examine the whole truth of human history and (2) fill in the lacunae left by previous generations of scholars who, through discrimination or ethnocentricism, neglected the achievements and plights of disadvantaged groups.

Dr. K, at 6:00 pm EDT on July 23, 2008

Dr. Chou is a sociologist. Sociologists understand the importance of exploring and explicating the (usually unexamined) power relations between groups and individuals that make today’s society what it is. It’s a obvious point, but apparently one that bears repeating: the way that society is set up has an effect on how people, groups, and institutions treat you, the individual. One of many things that shapes your experience vis a vis society is your race. I don’t understand how this a contentious point. Just as those with more material resources (i.e. rich people), when holding everything else constant, have more power in society versus those with fewer resources, so do those (holding everything else constant) who are white versus those who aren’t.

The unexplored questions are: (1) where, exactly, do Asian Americans fit within this racial power structure and (2) how does the Asian-American group’s position within this structure affect the lived experience of Asian American men and women? It is to Dr. Chou’s credit that she has decided to take on this neglected (and yet powerfully important, if we are to understand the treatment and experience of Asian-Americans) topic. I can’t wait to read her ACTUAL BOOK to see what conclusions she draws from this line of research.

Assistant Professor: I’m still not sure how studying the ways in which societal power structures constrain and enable the experiences of Asian-American men and women is tantamount to “constructing a victim.” It just sounds like good, solid sociological research to me; however, I’m sure it was exciting to “whine” (like those oppressed groups, right?) about “victims” and the academic machine that exists solely to feed off of them.

It’s a more than a little annoying to see that so many of these comments have (1) taken Dr. Chou to task for not writing a book on THEIR personal favorite topic/interest group or (2) use the comments section as a soapbox to complain about some race-related issue that has nothing to do with the substance of her interview. I encourage all posters to read her book and to see what they have to say then.

KP, at 4:30 pm EDT on July 27, 2008

correction

Ms. Chou is not a doctor, though she will very likely have her Ph.D. soon.

Lawyer, J.D., at 7:05 pm EDT on September 5, 2008