Real standards = real guys

Greene (U-Ark.) and Vedder (Ohio U) posit that there are too many colleges. Well — there are.

The best organizations do not hire beer-swilling frat-guys (and gals) used to low performance standards. They hire people who show up on time (sober), accurately do work in a timely fashion without calling Mommy every four hours, and actually think before speaking politely and with authentic knowledge.

The author talks of high expectations. Can’t wait.

Frank A., at 9:05 am EDT on August 21, 2008

Female faculty in Guyland

The article “Understanding Guyland” closes with a call to support young males in their efforts to resist the “guyland” tendencies, but what can we do when they (inappropriately) bring these sexist attitudes into the classroom? As a female instructor at other large state-based institutions I have seen an alarming trend in males students making inappropriate remarks in class and saying inflamatory, sexist things under the guise of “participating” in discussion — to the smirks of their friends.

Are parents not teaching them at younger ages to self-monitor and consider the feelings of others? What can we do?

Brenda Jones, Chair ORGC at Franklin University, at 10:00 am EDT on August 21, 2008

During the years I have taught at this university, I have marked the striking difference between my female and male students in the classroom. In aptitude, intellectual curiosity, drive, and competency, the female students have consistently outshone their male counterparts. I have wondered: how can leaders most effectively address this disparity? How can one promote a culture in which study, learning, and the cultivation of the intellect are not despised by male students?

adjunct instructor, at 12:00 pm EDT on August 21, 2008

We shouldn’t be surprised

We shouldn’t be surprised by any of this, since there are virtually no adult men involved in campus life who could provide constructive role models. The faculty are too lazy to do it, the student affairs bureaucrats are too incompetent to do it, and the coaches are the ones paying for the beer and prostitutes. That’s American higher ed in a nutshell.

a reader, at 1:35 pm EDT on August 21, 2008

Understanding Guyland

Kudos to Dr. Kimmel on his research relative to the delayed social/psychological development of males in our society. I have observed this phenonena both clinically and in dailey observations over the past twenty five years. There are many more facets to this apparent deviation from past psychosocial development that characterized the generations prior to “Gen X” and the subsequent “Y” and “Millennials.” The factors influencing this developmental delay are multifarious and beyond the scope of this brief commentary. Less talked about is the influence that this phenomena has had on the development of females belonging to these generational cohorts. While it is unfair to tar all males or females from this group with the same brush, the nature of male/female relationships has on “face validity” been adversely altered.

John Clapp, PhD, Dr., at 4:30 pm EDT on August 21, 2008

Guys behave like guys because they can

Guys are guys because they believe, with justification, that they can get away with it. Guys know that even without a college degree they can get half-decent, half-decently paid guy jobs; women know that without academic credentials they’ll be stuck in indecent, low-wage, boring pink-collar work. Guys who go to college know that even with mediocre grades they will still get good jobs when they graduate; women know that even with a college degree they have to achieve to avoid getting stuck in jobs that are essentially secretarial.

Guys behave like pigs because they can: Animal House behavior is expected and excused. The consequences for women who behaved that way would be disastrous.

“Guyland is largely a white thing” because it’s a response to privilege and the sense of entitlement that comes with it. They can flout social rules (who doesn’t want to do that) and reject established pieties (who doesn’t want to do that), and behave loutishly and impulsively because they can get away with it. And women act as enablers because they have little choice. If you want a guy but the guys are all following the Guy Code, you’re going to have to put up with a guy who follows the Code. Since “Guyland saturates campus social life at pretty much every campus” the only available solution is the Lysistrata program, and that is one that most women will not undertake.

Female students I’ve talked to are very aware of the Guyland phenomenon, don’t like it, but don’t know what to do about it. And I don’t know either. As long as guys can get away with it they will. I’m a woman: if I could have gotten away with behaving like a guy when I was an undergraduate I would have—but I couldn’t.

LogicGuru, at 9:50 pm EDT on August 21, 2008

Is the issue internal or external?

I do believe the solutions mentioned in this article could definitely be effective to a certain extent. However most of these solutions involve controlling or preventing sexist or violent behavior; external, short term solutions that wouldn’t change the internalized sexist codes that many male students are socialized to believe. Guyland may not be visible on campus, but it would still exist within the mentality of both men and women who have grown to internalize their designated gender roles. If their was a long term solution that could be implemented earlier on in middle or even elementary school that could instill a gender equity mentality in our young men and women, would these behaviors even manifest themselves by the time they got to college?

Melissa Medina, Student at UC Berkeley, at 5:10 am EDT on August 22, 2008

Family Legacies Go To College

Maybe I shouldn’t preface this thought with “Needless to say": Not all white men in college fit this mold, although there are enough of them to constitute a mold. Throughout their 18 years prior to college young men and women observe the behaviors of their mothers and their fathers and their relationships with each other. This is nothing new. There are homes that raise secure male and female individuals who are self-possessed enough to feel unthreatened by changes in the status of any social or demographic group, to respect themselves enough to respect others. Whether colleges should step in to help break legacies is another matter. There are certainly different ways of being educated.

Administrator & Parent, Administrator & Parent, at 12:35 pm EDT on August 25, 2008

To all of you who say that GPAs are female biased or that men are being judged to harshly on campuses I beg to differ (especially in light of the idea that we should instead focus on ACT, SAT, or GRE scores!).

I teach test prep for many, many students and the number one thing I can say is that—regardless of sex—test scores mean NOTHING. Standardized tests have become so “standardized” that they’ve lost sight of what they’re testing (take a peek at the SAT sometimes... the questions are more akin to a MENSA test then college level English or math).

Provided the internal system of faculty isn’t corrupted at a school then GPAs are truly one of the best ways to understand the overall achievement of a student and sadly, across the board, women do better then men. In my test prep classes I’ve had the occasion to have both all girl or all guy classes OR a mix. When mixed both under achieve but the girls are still more vocal (a need to catch male attention) it isn’t so with the guys. Ask any teach, whether it’s test prep or college math, and the best way to improve or keep good grades is through SPEAKING UP in class. Men are much too reticent or “macho” to do this (despite the fact then whenever I have seen this occur, with the rare exception, they attract more girls than with silence) where as women (however misplaced the attention-getting motives maybe) speak and ask much more freely.

I’m sure teachers, parents, girlfriends, friends, and wives would agree that perhaps the best antidote to these “problems,” whether they be social or academic, is by instilling in male culture the same availability and liberty to speak and express oneself that female culture has basked in over the past several decades.

Not So Easily Sexist, at 7:55 am EDT on September 1, 2008

Understanding Guyland

As a 63 year old male I find myself saying “I told you so” in the face of the Guyland phenomena. I have long felt that “gender equity” feminism (vs equity feminism ie be talented, reap the rewards) would be the bane of our culture. I commented to anyone who would discuss this subject that we should be prepared to lose several generations of very confused young men as a result of radical gender feminists in search of a vision of equality for women. The biological imperative, whether we like it or not, has placed women in the role of selecting appropriate mates for reproduction. They are/were the standard setters. An unintended consequence of radical feminism has been that those standards have been corrupted. Women have decided that, in the process of being equal to men,that any bed partner is ok. Men bought into this. Those low standards yielded low behavior. Now we face the challenge of teaching men to behave like men. Mature, honorable men. Who does this? It sure won’t be on our campuses. Women will have to get tired of accepting these facsimilies of men and come up with some new and appropriate standards. Wake up ladies.

Grayson Beal, at 10:50 am EDT on September 3, 2008