Student voters

Of course the ‘good folk’ don’t want those damn students to have ANY say about the places that they live ... after all, these students are the ones who spend the money, rent their buildings, support the local communities ... and leave the spoils to the ‘old boy’ network ... Them thar carpet baggers are back again!!! ....

Henry Collier, Principal Research Fellow at University of Wollongong, at 7:40 am EDT on September 3, 2008

To Diogenes

Diogenes,

Do you have any evidence that Montgomery County’s ‘warning’ to students is partisan in nature? Or do you have any evidence of purported voter fraud by the right, like dead people voting? The McCain attack has nothing to do with this article and is really off-topic.

Henry Collier is right on here. Locals don’t like students to have a voice at all in elections, regardless of their party affiliation.

Robert, PhD Student, at 8:05 am EDT on September 3, 2008

Don’t be too hard on the registrars

I have watched almost identical scenarios play out year after year here in Virginia. I hear that it’s not much different in other states too. So, don’t be too hard on country registrars who try to interpret vague and conflicting state laws. I would encourage you to read today’s editorial in the local newspaper, The Roanoke Times, which places the problem squarely in the laps of our state legislators.

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/175408

Larry Hincker, Assoc VP at Virginia Tech, at 8:15 am EDT on September 3, 2008

Broken Hearts? More like a Broken System!

Broken hearted? try being broken hearted for the right reason! It broke my heart to see right wing partisans deny thousands of honest black voters their right to vote in Florida by accusing them of being criminals and felons. It broke my heart to see blacks in Ohio harassed at the polls by right wing vigilantes at the last presidential election. Mean spirited? No. Vigilant for the rights of Americans to vote? Yes. I fully expect the radical right to do anything in their power to block students and minorities from the polls. Why? Because the SOB’s did it before and got away with it. Never again!

Diogenes, at 9:10 am EDT on September 3, 2008

Par for the course...

As a Virginian born & raised, I cringe when I read stories like this one. We are still very much a place that values “tradition” — and sometimes spins that word to condonequestionable (or downright illegal) behavior. Given Virginia’s steadfast insistence on clinging to its Confederate roots and nearly always supporting conservatives, I have to read this as a partisan act and thinly veiled scare tactic — the message is that if young people exercise their rights, they risk losing access to their college educations.

Were young people being mobilized in record numbers by McCain instead of Obama, that registrar would be singing a different tune (my guess: “Dixie.")

Professor G, at 9:31 am EDT on September 3, 2008

“New” or “Additional” Residency

I’m no expert, but having as family some retired New Englanders who spend winters in Florida, I wonder why they don’t get the same sort of warning.

A previous poster stated:

“When you register to vote, you are establishing a basis for a new residency.”

I submit for discussion whether one merely establishes a basis for ADDITIONAL residency. I seem to recall discussing a 3-month law with someone back along. Do I recall correctly that in order to be considered a resident one must only live three months out of the year in that location? I could be a permanent resident of 4 different states all at once!

Wossamotta U., at 10:50 am EDT on September 3, 2008

voting rights

So, would a homeless and/or itinerant person have the right to vote in the United States? I assume the Constitution would allow a person to register in their locality following the rules, and vote as they wish, regardless of the tax code’s dependency rules. The language of the announcement can only be interpreted as a stern warning with punishment held over college students’ heads.

schencka, English instructor, at 11:45 am EDT on September 3, 2008

You know who the culprits are

True, residents of most college towns are none too pleased when students show up to vote, but to claim this isn’t partisan is to ignore past practice. The Republican Party always does everything in its legal power (and then some) to keep the poor, people of color or any other demographic likely to vote for Democrats away from the polls, usually citing completely unsubstantiated widespread voter fraud. And given the location here — southwestern Virginia — well, I kind of doubt the good ol’ boys running the county government there have Obama bumper stickers on their pick up trucks.

DS, at 12:00 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

Republicans

Yeah... I heard that Republicans eat puppies and orphans too.

Bill, at 12:45 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

In this country, the individual States administer elections. That is our constitutional republican system. Hence, laws on voting vary from state to state. The individual states are under no obligation to make it easy and convenient for visitors, vacationers or non-residents to vote in their local and state-wide elections. Obviously States would prefer voters who have a real stake in the State, i.e. live, work, pay taxes, etc. in the State. Residency requirements and election laws are written with this idea in mind. Students, like others who choose to reside in one state while working in another, may continue to vote through absentee ballot in their home states. I did so through the my college and grad school years, and later through a military career. It was quite easy to do even in a pre-internet age. In most states, registering to vote tweaks the state administrative system. One begins to receive jury summons, notice that car registration will have to be renewed in 30 days, notice that driver’s license will need to obtained in the current state, receipt of state income tax forms, etc. Additionally, students usually know a great deal more about the local politics in the states in which they have resided for many years. Often they also have a network of friends and family who keep them abreast of their local politics. Students temporarily residing in other states are often clueless about the local candidates and issues. Because of this, few students have an interest in regularly voting in the states where they attend college. Every four years there is a “dust up” about out of state college students voting for the President. The argument is silly. If a student wants to vote in the same state where he or she attends college, then register, become a resident, pay taxes, etc., and go for it. If a student wants the convenience of maintaining a single home residence and address over college years, vote by absentee ballot.

frankly speaking, at 1:20 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

Isn’t it amazing how they now qualify as a county resident, but not qualify for resident tuition. and never will.

Twelve months of continuous residency in the state of Virginia. Students who are living in Virginia for educational purposes only are unlikely to qualify for in-state tuition rates. During the period of residency, proof of participation in the “activities of citizenship” must be documented. “Activities of citizenship” can be defined as: vehicle registration, drivers licensing, voters registration, payment of state income taxes, or other proof of affiliations within the state of Virginia. Any other proof of Virginia as the state of permanent residence. One may not have more than one state of domicile. Where applicable, visas allowing the establishment of domicile within the United States. Active duty military stationed in Virginia may qualify for immediate domicile through a change in the tax status and the Leave and Earnings statement.

Greg, at 1:40 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

stm60,

Huh? Unsubstantiated warnings about losing scholarships (lose your scholarship by voting in another town?!?), completely inaccurate info about income tax consequences...you’d need armed guards at the door to deliver a stronger “stay away from our ballot boxes” message than that. If you’re going to provide “pros and cons” of voting there, make them accurate.

Again, these students are legally entitled to vote there. In this country, that should be the end of the argument. Maybe some people would rather vote in person than by absentee ballot, and sorry, but that is their right. Other than “this is our town, we don’t want you voting here because you might disagree with us,” what objection can people possibly have to this? How American is that?

DS, at 2:00 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

Clarity

FAFSA says it all"...it would clear up the mirky legal and financial relationships between colleges, students, their parents and the state and federal governments.”

Again, the checking of facts...

First, the ‘murky” financial and legal and financial relationships are spelled out in great detail in writing and are not a secret. They are published in the federal register and are available on a website. The fact that you have not read them is probably what makes them murky.

“Unfortunately the rules for anyone between 18 and 21 gaining “independence” are strictly laid out by FAFSA and there is no other authority.”

Second, There not only IS another authority, but we use it. The murky rules that you did not read allow for the FAO at the students college to make students independent based on an appeal, with guidelines also layed out in regulations.

Third, the big hole in your theory.

If need is based on the student solely, what is the incentive for any student graduating from high school to find a job. All of them, regardless of the enormous wealth of some of their parents, would qualify for Pell grants and the federal budget would have to be increased exponentially to cover the shortfall.

What a spectacular waste of resources...and why should the rich get away without paying anything?

It is NOT the job of Taxpayers to preserve the wealth of the wealthy...unless of course you are a Friend of Bush, then you would get an enormous bailout.

R.F., at 2:30 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

The comments about health insurance problems are from our school newspaper.

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/st...ion_drives__cause_for_legal_concern_

Also, nobody said anything about the people registering students never mentioning the consequences. Don’t just assume that they do not know the law. The students participating in registration drives know the law. Which is why there was an uproar when the school newspaper published the article which had misleading information.

VT Student, at 3:20 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

Jim Crow PhD

The Virginia matter appears to be part of operation Jim Crow PhD, the updated strategy for denying the electorate voice in choosing the next emperor/empress.

David, PhD, MFA, at 5:20 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

RF and DS...

With all due respect, I have worked in Student Affairs for 11 years at multiple colleges in multiple states. Additionally, I have been an undergraduate student on financial aid at an out-of-state school, and a graduate student at an in-state school. I do have a pretty good understanding of how tuition is assessed and how residency affects financial aid and scholarships both as a student and as an employee.

To think that some voter registration official could actually yank scholarships is irrelevant, because they can’t, and they know it. To think that some voter registration official would believe that they have that power is overreacting, at the very least. DS, from what I read, the voter registration officials never said “you lose your scholarship by voting in another town.” Maybe it wasn’t worded well for people who don’t understand the system, but I’ll try to explain it and make a long story as concise and generic as possible (this is a very general overview of how most institutions of higher ed typically work... not detailed specifics for any one institution):

If you are a resident of state A and choose to attend college in state A, this may not matter very much. Of course, it depends on the local residency laws of that state. It still holds true that scholarships could be altered if your legal residency is changed... perhaps, if you received a scholarship by living in Specific County but move to Someother County, you no longer meet the requirements of that scholarship, which state that the recipient must live in Specific County.

If you are a resident of state A and choose to attend college in state B, you are considered a nonresident. Your tuition will be assessed based on this residency status. You theoretically pay taxes in state A, and that’s where you are entitled to vote. Some financial aid and scholarship information may be awarded based on residency. Financial aid information is based on your taxes, and those of your parents if you are under the age of 25. There are a few circumstances where students under the age of 25 would be considered “independent", and therefore their parents’ taxes would not be included for financial aid purposes. If you register to vote in the city or county of your college, you are, in effect, changing your residency — in most cases. The city or county will expect you to pay taxes there, register vehicles there, etc, for the privilege of voting... just like you must be a US citizen to vote in the US. If you decide to change your residency status with the college, you will probably have to complete a form and provide documentation proving that you have, indeed, made that location your permanent residence. Proper documentation includes a copy of your new driver’s license, voter registration, property taxes, pay stub, etc. Then, of course, it usually takes a year of local residency to change your residency status for tuition purposes. I am no tax expert, but if you are no longer living at your parents’ residence, I would imagine that they would not be able to claim you on their taxes (it appears that you have left to live on your own), and now that I have seen the origin of the health insurance question, I can see where your parents’ health insurance provider would see it much in the same way. Voter registration is almost always linked to legal residency (laws of which, I’m sure, vary by state), and anytime you mess with your legal residency, you can really upset the cart, so to speak.

Changing residency CAN have (but doesn’t always have) negative effects on your college financial situation. My opinion is that this voter registration official was just trying to get all the facts out there before it was too late, and make people think before they changed their legal residence. I’ll bet this press release wouldn’t have been necessary had they not had complaints of “I didn’t know it would cut my scholarship,” etc, before. And I wonder how many parents called to complain because their child tax credits, etc, were denied because their child has technically become “independent.”

So, while the information released by Montgomery County may not actually effect every student, it is, as far as I can tell, factual information. It’s not a political ploy to keep students from voting, and it’s not a “good ol’ boy” tactic to keep a Democrat out of office. My advice (not that anyone is asking) is for students to keep residency “at home” is and contact your home voter registration office about how to vote absentee. If you prefer voting in person, most colleges will be closed on a Presidential election day, so, if it’s close enough, go home and vote!

srco, at 6:30 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

From a former VA student

As an alumnus of WM in Virginia I have to say that some registrars are out to stop students. In fact students at WM had to sue the city in order to be allowed to register in the city of Williamsburg.

While I applaud all any efforts to inform students it is quite clear that many registrars in VA actively discourage or block registration by students.

Chaz, Grad Student at UW, at 8:05 pm EDT on September 3, 2008

Apples and Oranges

SRCO, I agree that the college has the right to set it’s tuition rate for in state and out of state students.

However,I don’t know of any colleges that give a student in state tuition simply because they registered to vote in state. There may be a few, but I will bet they are the exception.

And yes, the cost can effect financial aid. Generally, the more cost you incur, the more need based financial aid you get.

However, my comments were directed toward the filing of tax forms and the filing of the FAFSA, not the cost of attendance.

The VA department of elections does not set tuition policy for any college, so I am pretty sure your fears are groundless.

On the other hand, the incorrect information shared could screw up many folks taxes and FAFSA filing.

Now do you understand?

R.F., at 8:15 am EDT on September 4, 2008

RF...

RF, if an out-of-state student registers to vote locally and, in effect, changes his/her legal residency, then yes... after a year of local legal residency, the student would mostly likely be considered in-state to the local college, and thus, qualify for in-state tuition. The student must initiate the paperwork to change his/her residency status with the college, but it probably will happen. Of course, this assumes that registering to vote legally changes your permanent residence. Check it out — call a college and the local voter registration office and just see. And if I’m wrong, I’d like to know... but I know for a fact that this is how it works in my state.

Residency can affect your tax forms, which also can affect your FAFSA. To be honest, if parents are claiming students for tax breaks who legally no longer live at home, then our government needs much more fixing than I thought. Since I’m not a tax expert, as I stated before, I would suggest, as did the Voter Registration folks in Montgomery County VA, that you speak with your tax professional about the legalities of all that.

Unlike others who read this article, I have no fears about what the Mongomery County Voter Registration Office can do to any student or their financial status at school, with financial aid/scholarhips, or on their taxes. They can do nothing! However, they do know that changing your legal residency can affect all those things... and they know that when you mess with people’s money, they get very angry... which is probably where most of this hype came from anyway.

I’m more afraid of how the media can get people all worked up over something without being fair about reporting the story. From what I understand, the students of Virginia Tech vocalized their anger at a similarly written article in the school newspaper, which has since been altered and republished to reflect the situation more accurately. Of course, none of this was addressed in this article at all! I would only like to try and get others to see this and understand that the issues in this article aren’t necessarily reflected appropriately... regardless of whether or not the Montgomery County Voter Registration Office gave factual information. What makes it worse is that the information was factual, but it’s far too late to argue that point when everyone has jumped on the “intimidation” bandwagon.

srco, at 11:20 am EDT on September 4, 2008

IRS Publication 17.

SRCO, each college gets to set its own policy. Voting registration alone may not be sufficient to A.) Change residence, since it depends on the states laws or B.)change tuition status.

IRS Publication 17 spells out the exemption for federal taxes for college students up to age 24.

They are considered to be living at home and in their parents household EVEN THOUGH THEY LIVE AT COLLEGE.

Federal tax law trumps the law in Virginia in regard to residency for tax treatment.

It does happen that students who may initially be considered as out of state can become in state the following year. However, the change to their cost of attendance to instate can actually DECREASE their financial aid package. It may or may not be a good thing on a case by case basis.

However, the change to instate tuition in no way now makes the student an independent student. Further, since their parents are able to claim their exemption on the parents tax forms, the student may not claim their own.

Virginia indeed may have been attempting to inform students of the consequences of registration to vote in their state, but since they promoted incorrect and incomplete information in a very suspect way they did students a disservice, and I am not the only one to think so. Perhaps, if they owned up to not understanding completely folks would think differently, but they have not, and they have not removed the offending info from the website.

Further, they in effect “chilled” students from registering there. They can protest wide eyed innocence if they want to, but people will see it for what it is.

R.F., at 3:40 pm EDT on September 4, 2008

Voter Registration at VT

Not sure what all the fuss is about — my son just started his Freshman year at VT. He is an “out of state” student — and we are paying dearly for that. We anticipated that he would need to vote by absentee ballot so he took care of that himself before leaving for Blacksburg. I’ve never heard of anyone losing scholarship money, health insurance, etc. for registering to vote in the state where they attend college. By the way — it’s a terrific school — even though the setting is rural, the students are taught to think critically. Give them some credit — I think they would know if they were being coerced in any way regarding the voting process. The student body as a whole is quite bright.

Ginger Wilkins, at 4:50 pm EDT on September 4, 2008

I can see both points on this issue but this is how I see it —

I’m a true believer that when you’re off to college, you’re an adult now. Why do we need to rely on mommy and daddy until we are 30? Every year, it seems as if 30 year olds are still living at home or relying and mom and dad, it’s sad!

Life isn’t easy when you get out of the house, it gradually get’s better. I guess we all just expect to hold each other’s hands until it’s time to let go.

Tom, Break from the nest, at 3:10 pm EDT on September 7, 2008

the frustration is warranted

I know local officials have difficult jobs, especially when bombarded with a lot of new voter regisrations. But they’ve forfeited their right to the public trust when they publish false information about the law. This is voter suppression, pure and simple, whether it’s intentional or not. I was in Ohio in 2004, and I saw black neighborhoods blanketed with flyers spread misinformation—misrepresenting the election day, claiming that voters could be arrested if they showed up to vote with an error in their registration, along with other horrible lies. This happens in every presidential election.

Hardworking volunteers across the country are spending weekends and vacation time to do what by rights the government should be a lot more interested in—registering people to vote—only to have election boards throw out those voter regisrations on technicalies. Those people are legally registered, and they’ll show up at the polls and be denied the opportunity to vote, all because of the inflexibility or nefariousness of local bureaucracy.

People would be rightly howling if the IRS refused to accept tax returns on the kinds of technicalities that many county offices are using to reject voter registrations. They’d be even more outraged if the IRS started spreading false information about tax law. But that’s exactly what this county is doing.

Look at the party that’s in power in these localities that are trying to block voter registrations. You’ll see a chilling pattern.

Colatina, at 12:35 am EDT on September 8, 2008

Preemptive Voting

This is a problem that college-age voters will face nationwide in November. These voter registration drives will come to naught unless the college student has the foresight to register in his/her home district (if attending college away from home) and to request a mail-in absentee ballot in order to assure that he/she won’t be disenfranchised on election day. The act of voting preemptively (absentee) will assure a paper ballot that can be recounted if there are irregularities. It could also expose in advance of election day efforts to purge voter rolls to suppress voter turnout.

JH, at 12:35 am EDT on September 8, 2008

Good Ole Virginia

If it looks like the Dems might actually take a traditionally red state, why not resort to some old fashioned election fraud? Hey, it worked with poll taxes.

TripLBee, at 12:35 am EDT on September 8, 2008

This is obviously an attempt to keep VA red.

It should be noted that state-residency (which can affect taxes) is not the same as “resident for voting purposes,” which is required for voter-registration. The only qualifier for a student to register to vote in VA (other than a physical address there) is the *intention* of staying in VA once his/her degree is completed.

“To be eligible to register to vote in Virginia a person must: Be a resident of Virginia (A person who has come to Virginia for temporary purposes and intends to return to another state is not considered a resident for voting purposes).”http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/V...gistering_to_Vote/Index.html#To%20be

Andrew, at 5:15 am EDT on September 8, 2008

I find it interesting that (1) these efforts are just now deemed important and (2) only Democrats feel registering new voters is important.

sharon barbosa-crain, at 7:50 am EDT on September 8, 2008

Despicable

This is downright despicable! Why would you discouraging people from voting unless you were trying to take away people’s right to vote? I would say that I find this surprising, but because I’ve lived in Virginia for over 20 years I really can’t say I’m surprised. Virginia is a beautiful state but racism and segregation are still a factor in this state, so nothing is surprising. I hope that Governor Tim Kaine looks into this and someone loses their freakin job!

tiger, Despicable, at 9:20 am EDT on September 8, 2008

What evidence of misinformation does Mr. Wertz have to cite for his actions? How many instances of lost scholarships, lost insurance coverage have occured as a result of registering to vote? Finally, is it possible to gain independency through registration if you’re a full-time student?

Ryan Miracle, at 9:46 am EDT on September 8, 2008

student voting

Students should be barred from voting, anyplace, who cares? They should also be barred from sex, alcohol, football, dancing and all other forms of exercise or motion in which genitalia move and/or are repositioned. When they get older and become Republicans, then they can vote.

hal muskat, at 3:15 pm EDT on September 8, 2008

Missing The Point

The voter registration office should be ashamed. Students have every right to register at the institution that they attend. This right has been established by the Supreme Court of the United States. What the Virginia site should state is “The Supreme Court of the United States has set into law a students right to register as a voter in the county that he/she attends school. I would go so far as to add “This registration will have absolutely no adverse impact upon the individuals financial aid, health insurance, home of record, or vehicle insurance.”

DuBose” I swore an oath to defend my country from all enemies, foreign and domestic”

Chris, at 10:25 pm EDT on September 8, 2008

Facts NOT Fear!

This is craziness! We need to get the facts for ourselves and not believe everything we read on the internet. This is just another “fear” tactic and we all know who likes to keep us in the “afraid zone". Afraid of spinach, afraid of tomatoes, afraid of muslims, afraid of blacks, afraid of whites...I am sick and tired of being afraid! ENOUGH!

Jaffy, at 2:55 pm EDT on September 9, 2008

So, what’s to stop an out of state college student from voting by absentee ballot in their home state and then on election day going to the polls where they attend college and voting again? I can’t imagine that every single town, in every single county, in all 50 states has a single database that tells them if someone already voted somewhere else. I was in college (on the other side of my state) for the last election, and I voted by absentee ballot, but I was approached many times by those poll drive people willing to drive me to the polls. Besides me being an honest person, what’s to stop me from going to vote again, even in my own state?

RJ42, at 5:05 am EDT on September 18, 2008

Warning for College Student Voters

Maybe they can do the advance voting in their home state.

Jamie Summers, at 11:06 am EDT on September 19, 2008

Another Feeble Attempt

I heard about this warning to college students and I want to thank you for publishing this article. It’s vitally important this election season that voters are aware of the various tactics that are being used in an attempt to disenfranchise voters.

I have been so inspired by the number of young people who are getting involved this election. I don’t understand why anyone would want to use scare tactics to try to keep them from voting — unless those behind this “warning” are afraid of the impact the college students might have on this election.

Kate Mack, at 5:25 am EDT on September 20, 2008

College Student Voter Registration

The Voter Registrar for Montgomery County Virginia, home of Virginia Tech, is advising VT students they may not want to register to vote in Montgomery County, VA. He is allegedly concerned about their taxes, health insurance or scholarships.

I note that in nearby Lynchburg, VA, all 10,000 students of Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University are being encouraged to register to vote in Lychburg and are getting election day off and free rides to the polls. Is their local Voter Registrar discouraging them from registering in Lynchburg or are they exempt from the potential tax, health insurance or scholarship implications?

See Liberty University Website:

Voter Registration

Liberty University encourages students to register to vote by: Making periodic announcements during Convocation and providing forms, including but not limited to, campus-wide, televised Convocation on September 3, 2008 by Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr. — voter registration forms provided at that time and also in Campus North on September 7, 2008. An additional announcement during Convocation, including but not limited to, campus-wide televised Convocation on September 10, 2008 by Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Convocation speaker Don Corace. Don Corace is an author on property rights issues and also testified before the United States Congress. Voter Registration forms were made available by Resident Life staff for each dorm and also through faculty in class for commuter students. Classes were cancelled for election day, voluntary transportation made available, and dorm return hours were extended as necessary to provide time and convenience for all local Liberty students to vote. Encouraging awareness by inviting a variety of candidates to speak to students and staff Providing the following link to the Voter Registration Form If you are not registered to vote, please visit the Federal Election Commission website and complete a National Mail Voter Registration Form at:http://www.eac.gov/voter/Register%20to%20Vote

Joseph T. Trapeni, Jr., at 3:16 pm EDT on September 23, 2008

More of the same

That’s not change. It’s more of the same! Frikken McCain!

Harry the Hobo Widdifield, at 10:40 pm EDT on October 6, 2008

Let me put this to you simply.

College students live in the community in which they go to school — regardless of whether or not that’s where their parents live. Voting there allows them to vote on things that effect them, the entire purpose of democracy. Otherwise, it is disenfranchisement. It is not relevant that they can still vote where their parents live, voting there does not directly effect them.

EverTheSkeptic, at 8:55 pm EDT on October 24, 2008

Source of Wqarnings for College Students

The person that started this uproar (the General Registrar of Montgomery County) is a Democrat...so how can you blame this on the Republicans?

Ron, at 11:50 am EDT on November 1, 2008