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David Horowitz Does the MLA

December 30, 2008

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SAN FRANCISCO -- It’s not standard practice at meetings of the Modern Language Association to have visible security or a roped-off divide between the dais for speakers and the audience. But it’s not every MLA meeting that features David Horowitz, who has spent years attacking the group.

Amid rumors that the Radical Caucus of the MLA might try to disrupt the Horowitz talk here Monday, the MLA had arranged for Horowitz and fellow panelists -- if disrupted -- to appear at an undisclosed location and to be broadcast back into the room where the audience gathered. While the Radical Caucus did distribute a written attack on the decision to invite Horowitz, it did not disrupt the event, and the audience saw Horowitz and his fellow panelists in person. Things got a bit frosty when a few members of the audience didn't wait for the moderator to tell Horowitz his speaking time was up (time was carefully negotiated in advance) and shouted at him to sit down.

Horowitz appeared on the panel with three literary scholars -- one of whom backed some of Horowitz’s views -- to debate the state of academic freedom. Horowitz didn’t break new ground in his critiques of academe -- nor did Horowitz’s critics in their analysis of him.

In some ways what was most notable was that Horowitz praised the MLA for the invitation, which officially came from the organizing committee of the association’s Delegate Assembly.

More than five years have passed since Horowitz first proposed his Academic Bill of Rights – which he says would protect students and which many professors say would intrude on their rights. References to faculty members providing a range of views have left many professors fearful that they would be unable to present strong points of view or controversial work. Horowitz said that the MLA is the first disciplinary group to invite him to speak in that time.

He said that while many academic groups have condemned him and that many professors have compared him to Joseph McCarthy (and worse), few have engaged him in discussion. He said it was significant that the MLA has done so. (He almost spoke at the annual meeting this year of the National Communication Association, but that possibility fell apart, with some of that association's members questioning the wisdom of inviting him.)

Horowitz said that he believed most professors were not inappropriately trying to indoctrinate students, but that significant portions were doing so, especially in women’s studies. He repeatedly criticized the concept of the social construction of gender, which he said should not be taught as reality but as a feminist theory. Horowitz also linked the perception of professors to their economic well being.

Noting the recent decline in the number of jobs for English professors, he said that there may be a link between the disappearing jobs and the “perception that English is a politicized field.” He said that English professors would be respected if they stuck to their fields. “If you want to teach about global warming or imperialism, become climatologists or political scientists,” he said.

While Horowitz made his points with characteristic rhetorical flourishes, others who spoke here endorsed some of his views – or the legitimacy of considering them – but did so with notably mellower tones.

Mark Bauerlein, a professor of English at Emory University, questioned some of the rhetoric that has been used to attack Horowitz, and said that some of the rhetoric used to describe the good work of professors goes too far. He noted that Horowitz’s goals have been compared to those of totalitarian governments and questioned the fairness of framing the debate in that way.

Bauerlein said that academic ideals are sometimes “sacrificed to department politics, personalities in the room, cronyism, identity politics” and other inappropriate factors. This is especially the case, he said, when departments are “insulated” from much of American society and become “more self-involved.” Ultimately, Bauerlein said, academe should acknowledge that infringements on academic freedom are coming from professors, not from David Horowitz.

Gerald Graff, a professor of English at the University of Illinois at Chicago and president of the MLA, said that he agreed with Horowitz and Bauerlein that “we should show more curiosity” about the critique of academe as being hostile to certain views and ideas. “There is a question of fact -- what is actually going on in classrooms?” he said.

While Graff argued for a discussion of the substance of Horowitz’s criticisms, others questioned why Horowitz was even invited.

The Radical Caucus released a letter to those arriving at the session that said Horowitz should not have been invited. “The reason why we in the Radical Caucus oppose Horowitz’s invited presence at the MLA, however, is not simply that he espouses views many people find troublesome, even repugnant. It is that he consistently misrepresents the views of academics whom he wishes to discredit. He is not a scholar but a liar of the Goebbels school.” The caucus cited Horowitz's descriptions of scholars in his 2006 book, The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America, as unfair and inaccurate.

During the question period, many of the questions were directed as much toward the program organizers as to Horowitz.

"Did you do your homework before you invited him?" Barbara Foley, a professor of English at Rutgers University at Newark, asked to applause. She asked if MLA officials were aware of the "racist trash" on Horowitz's Web sites or his "hit list" of professors. Horowitz then commented about not being able to answer all of the "Bolsheviks" in the audience.

Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors and an English professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, disputed Horowitz on numerous points -- although they united, prior to the start of the program, by mutually agreeing that they would not evacuate if a protest started, and would face any disruptions from the room together.

Nelson told Horowitz that he was wrong about the social construction of gender and about what goes on in classrooms generally. Nelson said that politics aren't much discussed in most courses, and that only the smallest fraction of professors -- liberals and conservatives alike -- abuse their positions to pressure students to take some political stance. Horowitz noted, however, that numerous studies have found that college students aren't swayed by their professors' politics or particularly offended that faculty members have views that may differ from their own. In his classes, Nelson said (to Horowitz's approval), he gives extra credit to students who disagree with him, since the disagreement enlivens discussion.

There is no evidence, Nelson said, to justify the Academic Bill of Rights, which would be "a new political enforcement mechanism."

Another panelist -- Norma E. Cantú, a professor of English at the University of Texas at San Antonio -- took a different approach. While she stressed that she respected the views of students and their right to think as they wish, she said there was nothing wrong with a professor hoping to shape a student.

"Are we radicalizing students? I hope so. Why would you read a book except to be informed and to grow," she said. "I hope all of us are about change."

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Comments on David Horowitz Does the MLA

  • Posted by JBM on December 30, 2008 at 8:20am EST
  • "“I hope all of us are about change.”

    The really sad part about this is that the speaker lacks the cognitive skills necessary to understand that this comment is completely devoid of meaning. Things have deteriorated past remedy when faculty cannot think beyond meaningless political sloganeering.

  • The Missing Piece
  • Posted by T on December 30, 2008 at 8:20am EST
  • Of course, this entire debate hinges on the assumption that students are actually paying attention in the classroom.

  • just wondering....
  • Posted by Larry on December 30, 2008 at 8:40am EST
  • This just occurred to me: Does anyone except college NOT to change someone’s view about anything? From what I can tell Horowitz seems to be arguing that a an ideal college is one where the students have precisely the same views at the beginning and at the end.

    Whatever the case, one of the weaknesses Horowitz’s position is that he really does not define “political.” Sure, a partisan argument such as (vote for Republicans) is political, but most things that are taken for granted and taught in schools at one time WERE political.

    For example:
    Earth revolves around sun
    United States is not under the control of the queen
    Free speech is a value that results in a better life for all
    Breach of a contract results in the “victim” being paid their lost profits
    Court-ordered specific performance of contacts is frowned upon
    A black person or woman can and should be president some day
    Slavery is bad.

  • Posted by john defrancesco on December 30, 2008 at 9:05am EST
  • your hardly hidden tilt toward trying to make horowitz appear a victim and his doctrines merely another academic point of view, has rendered "inside higher ed" reportage akin to giving "intelligent design" equal time. shame on you !!!

  • Larry, Larry, Larry ..
  • Posted by B.J.S. on December 30, 2008 at 9:50am EST
  • " .. Sure, a partisan argument such as (vote for Republicans) is political, but most things that are taken for granted and taught in schools at one time WERE political .."

    Dude .. speaking for the employers ..

    We are talking alleged graduates who *cannot* follow the Chicago style guide or cannot reason accurately with basic math. Then, when these deficiencies are brought up -- argue with us, call their parents to defend them, and sometimes burst out in tears.

    I'm reminded of the late, great Kurt Vonnegut who once repeated the joke "100,000 monkeys, pounding randomly on 100,000 keyboards, will reproduce Shakespere's works?"

    Arguing (endlessly) politics only avoids the obvious -- educational anarchy. Like politicians on TV making just absurd comments that later fact-checks prove to grossly deceptive.

  • I would have gone to see Horowitz...
  • Posted by Diogenes on December 30, 2008 at 9:55am EST
  • But I already know what an dinosaur looks like.
    He's as extinct as the Neocons that fund(ed) him after 11/4.

  • Horowitz is often correct on incidents
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 10:20am EST
  • While Horowitz has been over-the-top occasionally in his rhetoric, the sad fact is that in the overwhelming number of cases his facts about classroom incidents are correct.

    Take a look, for instance, at the following article about the University of Pittsburgh:
    The Pitt of Academic Bias, in FrontPageMag.com—01/12/06.
    Many here will not like the source. No one here can dispute the facts presented there.

    Or take a look at the special issue of the AAUP journal on "Academic Freedom", from summer 2007:

    There you will find Professor of Women’s Studies Julie Kilmer writing THIS on how to repress dissent in her classroom. I really urge everyone to read this:

    “Coping with Resistance Feminist strategies might be used in the face of individual and collective student resistance. First, we must not be afraid to identify publicly and address directly students who work to undermine our teaching. I am suggesting not a hierarchical approach that emphasizes power differences, but clear, honest, and forthright conversation between professor and students. As Mary McGee says, 'we need to teach and model for our students how one responds to this kind of criticism.'

    "When students are intentionally resistant or confrontational, it is important to name these dynamics in the classroom. This means not only asking students about their intentions in private conversations, but also talking about resistance and intentions with the entire class. In order to create a classroom climate in which students are free to express their ideas and at the same time are protected from being hurt by thoughtless or spiteful opinions, I often find that students speaking to each other directly is more effective than the same message coming from me.”

    I wish I were making this fascist statement up; but I am not. In other words, if intimidation of student “resistance” by the faculty-member herself won’t work, the recommendation is to sic fellow students on the hapless student “resister” in order to repress dissent in the feminist classroom.

    Kilmer's article followed another similar one, where a Professor of Women's Studies stated that if students did not become feminists in her classroom then she felt she was not doing her job.

    Both articles were followed by a statement from an AAUP lawyer decrying investigations from outside of behavior such as this , including Horowitz.

    As Professor of English Norma E. Cantu said in the Horowitz panel at the MLA:
    "Are we radicalizing students? I hope so!"

    The protecton of this sort of behavior in the classroom has been going under the rubric, again, of “ACADEMIC FREEDOM".

    Horowitz isn't the threat--these folks are.

  • Horowitz
  • Posted by Nevada Ned on December 30, 2008 at 11:25am EST
  • Horowitz often gets his facts WRONG. He is an ideologue, not a scholar. And he is out to crush liberal and leftist thought on campus by getting legislation passed at the state level to deny funding.
    One weakness of his campaign is that universities already have grievance processes available for students to complain about faculty if the faculty abuse their position to harangue students. In a number of states, Horowitz has met with conservative state legislators, and has claimed that lots of students are being brainwashed by leftwing faculty. But when asked for data to back up his charges, Horowitz often comes up empty. Often there are no student complaints.

    For more on Horowitz, see the contribution by John K. Wilson at
    http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20080110161359134

  • just an observation from an outsider
  • Posted by justaguy , parent & taxpayer on December 30, 2008 at 11:50am EST
  • On the same day David Horowitz brings the message, teach, don't politicize, the MLA membership has a robust discussion over how political the MLA should be. ( http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/12/30/mla ) The pro-political statements crowd is championed by the Radical Caucus, which also stands four square against Horowitz being invited to speak at the meeting. The actions of the Radical Caucus, who apparently have appointed themselves gatekeepers of the academy, go a long way toward making the case for considering the reforms Horowitz is calling for.

  • To Nevada Ned
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 11:50am EST
  • Nevada Ned, you say that Horowitz "often" gets his facts about classroom abuse wrong.

    Okay--Name me three times this has happened.

    Remember, we've reached the point now where classroom abusers of students such as Professor Kilmer are publishing in ACADEME to proclaim their "pedagogy" without shame, and with the AAUP's staunch defense.

  • Wasting My Time By Thinking
  • Posted by Charles Bittner , Academic Liaison at The Nation on December 30, 2008 at 11:50am EST
  • Recent PhD graduates, especially in the humanities, doubtlessly suffer from a distressing deficiency in tenure track jobs and are compelled to work for nominal wages and without benefits in temporary positions or, even worse, as adjuncts. It has been my belief that the reasons for this shortage in gainful employment are multifaceted and highly complex.

    Thankfully, by using his transcendent ability to disentangle any complex social issue with a one-dimensional existing framework, David Horowitz has set my inquiring mind at ease. He’s demonstrated that English professors themselves bear the responsibility of driving potential students from the discipline by politicizing their field. If only they would have the good judgment to avoid this shifty and gratuitous analysis of language and literature, respect for the profession would be restored, high-paying jobs would return, and happy days would, once again, come to the humanities.

    So now I can forget about exploring the complex economic, social, and educational causes that have surrounded this problem and have needlessly clouded my mind for far too long. I appreciate this essential insight and am grateful to the MLA for providing a platform to this remarkably critical thinker.

  • Posted by Steve , Director of Writing; Director, ITW Writing Project at Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis on December 30, 2008 at 11:50am EST
  • Inviting Horowitz was a smart move, though certainly as part of the debate, people should indeed point out his errors and any egregious acts on his part. If MLA members still consider themselves rhetoricians, they should be able to defeat someone like Horowitz without simply squelching him or his opinions. Perhaps a less acrimonious forum could be held in the future in which English professors discuss what it means to encourage "radical" thinking in the classroom. I too would hope that students in their encounter with literature are led to see themselves, their society, and human experience in new ways. There are no shortage of literary texts that can offer all kinds of perspectives, as radical and feminist as anyone would want; it isn't necessary for the professor to indoctrinate or rant or mount a Maoist style session of "self-criticism." Personally, I have never met a professor who advocates such tactics. But we ought to make sure that ALL students feel safe in our classrooms. If a student makes what we consider an objectionable comment, there ought to be ways to counter such comments in rational, respectful dialogue. In fact, at the beginning of a semester, students themselves should discuss and write up a set of classroom policies that will foster mutual respect and open discussion of texts and issues.

  • O, the ironies!
  • Posted by Weisenheimer on December 30, 2008 at 12:10pm EST
  • A professor faction at a meeting on Academic Freedom tries to ban and silence a speaker for being controversial.

    Campus activists who claim that a power imbalance makes any faculty-student romance/sex intrinsically exploitative, then argue that there's nothing wrong with faculty imposing political and religious bias on classroom students.

  • To Mr. Bitner
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 12:20pm EST
  • Mr. Bittner, you are defending the right of professors of English to discourse on politics, economics, international relations, history, and sociology. They are trained in literature. They are NOT professionally trained in economics, or in history, or in political science or in sociology. If they were, they would be economists, historians, political scientists, or sociologists. Yet personal political predilictions drive them to sound off in classrooms on topics in these fields as if they are experts in these fields.

    I personally know of several professors of English (and American Studies too) who discourse on "American Empire" without knowing the slightest about (e.g.) the vast and intense political science debate about the definition of that term, and whose notion of American history comes purely from Howard Zinn. I once had an encounter right on this blog where I had to give a Professor of English a BASIC reading list on the political science of "Empire"--a course he was teaching. He knew nothing about any of it.

    Such "extension" of analysis by English Profs is intellectually (I'll be kind) dubious.

  • Posted by Larry on December 30, 2008 at 1:30pm EST
  • Prof Ethan, Since it is generally bad form to declare oneself to be smart, can you name the specific English professor that was unaware of this body of literature, yet opined on it, so that I can verify that the incident happened.

    BJS, I don’t understand your point. First of all, what “employers” are you speaking for? Personally, I have never met a graduate student that couldn’t follow the applicable citation guide, or couldn’t do basic math. I think this is a fiction.

  • Interesting idea, a studeent pact,
  • Posted by DFS on December 30, 2008 at 1:30pm EST
  • But seriously, does anyone think that "at the beginning of a semester, students themselves should discuss and write up a set of classroom policies that will foster mutual respect and open discussion of texts and issues" will be enforcable via the professor's syllabus?

    Perhaps this precaution could be first floated by Nevada Bob, so he could send it off to Fidel for apporoval.

  • The Leftist, Nevada Bob
  • Posted by DFS on December 30, 2008 at 1:30pm EST
  • Where in your screed is the justification of the claim that "Horowitz often gets his facts WRONG. He is an ideologue, not a scholar"?

    You, sir, are no scholar. Horowitz most definitely is.

    I suppose that only by "denying funding," he can not only deny preaching leftist and liberal thought, but he will also succeed in denying conservative and rightist thought!

    Thus I suppose that, by denying such "funding," he will succeed in denying all thought, about anything.

    I am sure that all of the potential whistle-blowers around the world will exult in your illumination of the "fact" that "[o]ne weakness of his campaign is that universities already have grievance processes available for students to complain about faculty if the faculty abuse their position to harangue students."

    Just MoveOn, people -- nothing to see here! No one has any problem with any so-called leftist agenda among any professors at any university in the United States.

    To quote from Nevada Bob's preferred mantric source, the universityworldnews.com:

    '“It has never been clearer that our enemies are committed to our destruction and that they are prepared for a long war which they will win in the universities and congressional meeting rooms of America, not on the battlefield. The Freedom Center has played a role in the war at home and the war abroad.”
    '

    To this, I can only ask, What are are the preferred "battlefields," if not the universities and congressional meeting rooms of America? Do you have somewhere else in mind?

    Further, as to the claim that "[]o]ften there are no student complaints," I only encourage Bob to put down the Kool-Aid and actually research, for example, the ideas put forth by Prof Ethan and several hundreds of others around the country.

    We must have been just imagining things, I guess.

  • To Steve at Indiana U Purdue
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 2:00pm EST
  • Yes, of course, students should be protected.

    But the new official statement of principles by the President of the AAUP (from a year ago), defending "impassioned teaching" was described by Insidehighered.com itself as “defend[ing] rights of faculty members against those calling for anti-indoctrination or balancing measures.”

    It looks as if rather than continuing to deny Horowitz's claims, the new AAUP statement of principles shifted gears into defending explicitly the actions of those Horowitz is criticizing.

    I'm not a conservative. But I do try to maintain standards of behavior in the classroom. What I object to is people such as Julie Kilmer, or Norma Cantu (the last statement in the article above), who do not. They are committed to indoctrination. And that makes them legitimate targets of criticism.

  • Horowitz as Goebbels?
  • Posted by Kirby Olson , Associate Professor at SUNY-Delhi on December 30, 2008 at 2:00pm EST
  • The strange attempt to link David Horowitz with Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels is made by the Radical Caucus.

    The link could not be more inexact. Horowitz is Jewish, and is simply asking for academia to be more liberal in terms of demonstrating fidelity to the First Amendment principles on which this country was founded.

    I find his message urgent and needed.

    I am glad the MLA invited him, and I am glad for the restrained comments that Gerald Graff among others seems to have made in response to Mr. Horowitz.

    Thank you, too, for a fine article.

    The academy needs to be more responsive to the people of America that it claims to represent. We need to be more open to the counter-claims of the center and the right in order for academia to truly become a forum for American ideas.

  • I Defend Their Rights, Indeed - Prof Ethan
  • Posted by Charles Bittner on December 30, 2008 at 2:00pm EST
  • To behave as though distinct disciplinary boundaries are natural and anything other than consciously constructed artifices is anti-intellectual and absurd. The rigid disciplinary boundaries that you and David Horowitz advocate imply that knowledge is accessible and relevant only to the handful of people trained in a particular (invented) field. That is indeed a distressing thought. I’d prefer to think that scholars and students from throughout the academy collectively endeavor to make sense of our world in a way that will benefit us all. Nobody seeking a more comprehensive understanding of a literary text (or of anything else) should be chastised for thinking in broad and interdisciplinary ways. They should be applauded for transcending the provincialism of disciplinary chauvinists who have traded intellectual curiosity for the job security provided by erecting inviolable intellectual boundaries.

  • Posted by Dr K on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • Prof Ethan,

    I can only judge from your comment that you are not a professor of English. Many professors in literary fields ARE trained professionally in the other disciplines that inform their work. I might also add that historians and social scientists do not hesitate to incorporate literary works into their courses, whether or not they are trained in literary analysis.

    Of course a Dickensian scholar is likely to address questions of economics! Of course a study of the works of Senghal will entail problems of race and empire! Literature is so much more than interesting words.

    It is intellectually dubious to presume that political scientists are the only ones qualified to say what "empire" means when so many millions have experienced empire in countless ways. When one of these individuals writes a poem or novel or even an article about his or her experience of empire, there is nothing at all wrong with a professor of literature approaching this text and talking about how empire is presented in it. However, it would be prudent if that professor pointed out to the students that the matter would certainly be approached differently in a different discipline.

  • To Larry
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • The discussion can be found on the July 1, 2008 entry, "Fish to Profs: Stick to Teaching."

    My interlocutor was James W. Gettys.

  • disciplinary competence
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • Mr. Bittner, why then not have David irving teach history at my university? Or...dare I say it?...Ward Churchill, with his degree in Studio Art?

    The point of Ph.D. training in a particular discipline is not to get a credential. The point of Ph.D. training in a particular discipline is that one gets professional-level training in a particular discipline. That's what students are paying for, too--to be taught by professionals, not by dilettantes with no training in a field mouthing off on subjects about which they actually no little.

    The issue is competence. Professional competence. I don't want to be taught American Foreign Policy in the Middle East by (say) a person with an English degree who does not know Arabic and thinks that the King Tut Exhibit of 1976 was American cultural imperialism rather than a stroke of Egyptian foreign policy.

    To avoid repeating this debate between the advocates of professional competence and the advocates of political dilettantism, please read my interaction with James Gettys in insidehighered.com on July 1, under "Fish to Profs: Stick to Teaching"

  • Posted by Robert Talbert on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • It's about time the MLA started acting like scholars and less like second-string political activists. If Horowitz is so wrong, then shouldn't it be easy to knock down his arguments via a public debate in your own camp? Instead, people like the Radical Caucus eschew debate for character assassination, which is neither effective nor convincing.

  • To Prof. Ethan and DFS: How Horowitz gets his facts wrong
  • Posted by Nevada Ned on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • In promoting his Academic Bill of Rights, Horowitz tells a story of a student at the University of Northern Colorado. In his account, the student was asked on a test to "explain why George Bush is a war criminal," and when she submitted an essay on why Saddam Hussein was a war criminal, she received an F. What's wrong with this story? Everything. The test was not as Horowitz described. The student got an F for non-political reasons. And the professor who assigned the F is a Republican, not a leftist. The professor said that he would have explained himself or his course to Horowitz or his backers, but was never asked. “He’s cooked this whole thing up,” the professor said. The student did file a complaint which the University investigated, and found that “[t]he claim that Horowitz makes is incorrect,” a University spokeswoman said. “That didn’t happen.”

    http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/03/15/horowitz3_15

  • Posted by JBM on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • It degrades actual interdisciplinary thinking to confuse it with people spouting off in classrooms about matters they don't know the first thing about. I am regularly astonished, e.g., by completely ignorant proclamations made by language and literature teachers who somehow fancy themselves experts on constitutional and international law. They can't even identify the three branches of the American government (and their respective functions) correctly; they have no idea what the Bill Of Rights actually says. Nonetheless, oblivious to their own sweeping ignorance, they presume to "teach" imagined constitutional and international violations in lieu of language and literature classwork they contractually agreed to furnish.

    That's nothing more than emotional venting in the classroom, which is properly condemned as breach of contract and of professional duty.

  • Sticking to Literature
  • Posted by Isocrates on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • "They are trained in literature. They are NOT professionally trained in economics, or in history, or in political science or in sociology."

    Hmm. Okay, let me see what I can safely put on my syllabus this year to avoid any suggestion that I'm an expert trained in economics, history, etc. Wuthering Heights? Well, that's obviously political/sociological in its treatment of spousal relations and gender identity... Can't read that. What about Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass? No, wait... that's clearly political (*historical*, too). What about Animal Farm or 1984? Nope--too political, too close to an examination of economic & international relations grounded in those stories. The Jungle? Clearly sociological...

    I'm beginning to wonder what I would be allowed to put on my syllabus if I can't discuss history, economics, politics, and on and on. Or whether the detractors of English professors discussing same have actually read much of anything from their precious canon.

  • To Charles B.
  • Posted by Ed Retort on December 30, 2008 at 3:35pm EST
  • Charles,
    I think you are misrepresenting what Prof. Ethan and others are saying. All scholars should be able to investigate anything in the world with all the tools in their toolboxes. But a scholar hired to teach English should teach English. Get it?

  • Posted by Candide's Nephew , newspeak at Mutton College on December 30, 2008 at 5:45pm EST
  • I wouldn't want any child of mine to come under the influence of someone who believes that to 'discourse on' is either English or coherent.

    My worry isn't that Feminists, Fascists, Radicals—or even Cartesians—are infiltrating the Academy. It's that university professors in the humanities write and speak in a jargon that precludes thought (and are seemingly proud of it). 'What does this mean?' should be every student's first question.

  • Sounds like censorship
  • Posted by Robin West , Dr. on December 30, 2008 at 5:45pm EST
  • Academic freedom is intended to foster the free and open exchange of ideas; even if those ideas are controversial or contrary to those in the classroom, or in this case the audience. I am sickened by the intolerance and willingness of groups like the close-minded radical caucus to condone censorship--"We don't want him here because we don't like his ideas."

    I applaud MLA for not buckling to such close-mindedness.

  • Cobbler, Stick to thy Last
  • Posted by CalProf on December 30, 2008 at 6:35pm EST
  • Faculty should speak as experts only on topics where they have expertise based on recognized scholarship and graduate education. Universities are divided into departments because the fields of knowledge are too vast for any single person to be expert in all fields or even in all subfields within a department. If literature professors wish to expound on foreign policy, global warming, or any other subject outside of their actual knowledge, then they should not do so in the classroom. Students enrolled to learn the literature subject, not an extraneous topic (and they will looked dismayed when they realize that the professor's non-literature rant wastes their time and won't even be on the exam -- or so i hope!)

    As faculty we lose credibility when we try to speak as experts where we are novices. This applies too when academic senates take votes on issues of foreign policy or domestic politics. Professors who may be a world authority on volcanoes, or Camus, or Jungian psychoanalysis speak with no greater knowledge than the average citizen, and they should not invoke the university's status to give a mark of expertise where there is none.

  • The Hidden Reality
  • Posted by Politico on December 30, 2008 at 6:35pm EST
  • The hidden reality in this conversation is that all effective learning is inherently liberal. Think about challenging dominant ideologies, respecting the viewpoints of those who are not in power, and questioning culturally-based and biased assumptions. Unfortunately, these are all characteristics of liberal thought and ideology. Fortunately, our institutions of higher education are places where these things flourish because they are necessary for college students to develop the ability to think critically and morally. So, even if Horowitz has a point, it is not one that, in any way, functions to benefit American society.

  • Posted by Mark Bauerlein on December 30, 2008 at 7:35pm EST
  • While there were a few moments of acrimony in the MLA session, the large portion of it was civil and stimulating, and I think the face-to-face encounter between Horowitz and professors is all to the good. The current leadership of MLA, including Gerald Graff and Rosemary Feal, deserves a lot of credit here.

  • To Nevada Ned, about Northern Colorado, and to Politico
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 30, 2008 at 9:35pm EST
  • Nevada Ned, I don't you know the Northern Colorado case very well. I had a long, long colloquy with Michael Berube about this case on his blog back in Feb. 2006 (the colloquy lasted three days), and I believe I won that debate.

    1. There were four questions on the final in that case and they were all skewed left. A copy of the final was released by the University, and that's a fact.

    2. The student who complained had her grade raised from an F to a B. That's another fact--she won her complaint, Nevada Ned, a complaint that was based on an accusation of political bias. Repeat: She WON her complaint, which was based on an accusation of political bias.

    3. On the test, she had the option (in the fourth question) of explaining (a) why G. W. Bush was a war criminal, or (b) (as I remember) explaining why gay marriage was good for society.

    As it happens I support gay marriage myself, but there's obviously something wrong here, and I don't care if the professor says he's a Republican. The student chose option (a), said Bush wasn't a war criminal, and got an "F". That's another fact. Ask Berube.

    4. Horowitz got this case correctly; the University administration granted the student a better grade.

    To Politico:

    Norma Cantu in the story above argues, as you do, that one of the purposes of higher education is to challenge students’ cherished beliefs, to challenge dominant ideologies. Yes, fine--I agree too. But, why are conservative students’ beliefs the only that need to be challenged, or that GET challenged?

    The argument of Horowitz is not that students should not be taught to think critically, but rather that the approach in much of academia is asymetric in its critical analysis.

  • Another fact about the Northern Colorado Case
  • Posted by Prof Ethan on December 30, 2008 at 9:35pm EST
  • When during the student's appeal process the professor was asked to provide copies of the final exam, the professor was able only to provide a verbal account of the exam (the four questions I referred to above, including the two options on the fourth question) but--amazingly--was unable to come up with a copy of the exam. He claimed he had destroyed them all.

    Perhaps that's one reason why the student won her appeal.

  • Is education liberal?
  • Posted by Non-Politico (in a classroom) on December 30, 2008 at 9:35pm EST
  • Higher education is NOT inherently liberal. As faculty our role is greater than to simply challenge whatever we perceive as the status quo.

    Universities began as an institution to transmit the established and loved ideas and traditions of civilization. Today we also have a mission to present discoveries and other new knowledge from natural and social sciences and applied fields like medicine and architecture.

    We can caution students about accepting traditional and tested knowledge as dogma, but first and foremost, we must teach students the values, traditions, research findings and other knowledge, all of which students can question and challenge AFTER they have learned it.

    I'm astonished to learn that some so-called Departments of English no longer require Shakespeare, Milton, and other "dead old European males" of their literature majors. I guess that provides the classroom time for expounding about politics and other non-expert subjects.

  • Practice what you preach
  • Posted by Brian Kennelly , Professor at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo on December 30, 2008 at 9:55pm EST
  • Thank you for covering this session, as did _The Chronicle of Higher Education_.

    I wish we had had more than 75 minutes to discuss and debate the important question of academic freedom.

    The reminder from one member of the audience that Mr. Horowitz had used up his allotted time was warranted. That it was shouted out from the back of the room seemed rude and disrespectful--not "frosty."

    The repeatedly mouthed “F..CK… YOU” to Mr. Horowitz from another member of the audience (visible from my position at the podium—and certainly to Horowitz and other members of the panel) seemed “troublesome” and “repugnant.” I would have expected more of a colleague—especially of one suggesting that the DAOC “apologize […] for degrading the level of scholarship and debate that MLA members legitimately expect from any session they attend at the convention” (29 December 2008 handout to MLA members, distributed by members of the MLA Radical Caucus).

  • How Horowitz Is Wrong
  • Posted by John K. Wilson at collegefreedom.org on December 31, 2008 at 6:40am EST
  • In my book Patriotic Correctness I detail the various reasons Horowitz is wrong. I think the key problem here is that non-scholars such as Horowitz are rarely invited to academic conferences. So I'm glad that the MLA invited Horowitz.

  • A sentence is a complete thought
  • Posted by Margaret Hanzimanolis on December 31, 2008 at 6:40am EST
  • For those outside of the Discipline of English Departments, it is necessary to point out that the majority of "English" teaching at the undergraduate level is not in the field of literature but writing instruction: Writing is a course that does not have a content area.

    The Writing teacher is charged with teaching personal or reflective narratives, which are generally non controversial, though often difficult, and sometimes painful, for our students; But our real work is in teaching the moves that writers make: teaching the techniques of thoughtful, deeply considered, persuasive writing: what is good evidence? how (and why) one must avoid ad hominem attacks? how to reject a claim built on a weak premise or an unexamined consequences? We want students to make sure that their ideas are buttressed with evidence that is aptly chosen, and cited. We want students to examine and revise their writing so that it demonstrates internal logic and clarity of thinking. This sort of complex development is slow, not instantaneous, and the effort of bringing complex cognitive energies together is enormous for some students. It cannot be done without a subject.

    We help them to see when their claims are thin or when they have not considered some unforeseen consequence should their ideas be stretched by the force of their imagination. But this is work that is delicate, painstaking and is not often improved by the interference of nonspecialists. And surely if you believe only specialists should pronounce strong opinions, then Horowitz himself should stay out of English departments. (I hope I am not mistaken in thinking that he is not an English professor. If he IS a writing teacher, —then my entire argument falls apart, and I have to go back and try to develop another set of objections) You see the move I just made?

    I tried to make Horowitz' ideas obey their own logic. However, I don’t accept his initial premise, so I must actually abandon this line of argumentation; it is a dead end.

    I cannot hold Horowitz, or commentators who are speaking in behalf of his position, to a standard I myself reject. That would be something I would try to explain to a student: You cannot, as a rhetorical move, try to force Horowitz, or his supporters, to become subject to Horowitz’s rules, if you disbelieve his rules. So a student would either need to abandon that line of argumentation, or would have to recast it as an “internal” contradiction that help to discredit the claim.

    Many commentators believe that there is a "subject" to which "English" teachers can, and must, "stick". But because writing instruction is a skill without a subject, writing teachers must choose, or develop collaboratively, subjects, and these subjects are often around cultural or political conflicts about which students can disagree.

    Citizens, bystanders, taxpayers, scientists, and others who imagine that the teaching of "English" is only or primarily the teaching of Shakespeare or Romantic poets are mistaken. Of course the traditional literary subjects, and many new and exciting literary subjects, are taught--especially in graduate school--, and are taught via a variety of approaches, and the literature is seen through a variety of lens, as is appropriate. Some of these are more or less politic. That is also appropriate. You must understand that there is no one way to “teach” Shakespeare! It is not physics. There is no immutable law or mathematical formula, or fixed diagram to which the Literature professor marches, leading the students. Literature is not like that. There is nothing to “stick” to. Any set of readers brings their own set of enthusiasms, their own reluctances to what they are reading and studying, and the foisting of an orthodoxy on students—“sticking” to the Cliff note-style interpretation--is the absolute zero of literature teaching, the point from which we might plausibly start, but never finish.
    Even language teachers: Arabic Languages, African Languages, European languages, have a general "subject" but it is also a "skill" not a "content." One cannot teach the conjugation of a verb, without, very shortly into the process, putting that verb into a sentence! What sentence shall we use? Perhaps in introductory Spanish, it is appropriate to focus on the concrete verbs: ando,andas,anda, andamos, andais, andan.

    But eventually one must attempt the abstract nouns and conceptual verbs. These, also, eventually require sentences. A sentence is a complete thought.

  • To Margaret H
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 31, 2008 at 9:55am EST
  • 1. Horowitz has a B.A. in English Literature from Columbia, and an M.A. in English Literature from Berkeley. These are fairly prestigious degrees, and at Berkeley he was a T.A. (Shakespeare, in fact). It was easy to find these things out, and I find it odd that you didn't bother to do it before making your pronouncement that he was unfit to comment on the conduct of teaching in English Departments.

    Unfortunately, MH, you thus become an example of the very dangers I have pointed out in teachers of English venturing strong opinions in areas where they have not done even the basic research. To your credit you added the caveat that if Horowitz had experience in teaching at the college level, then your attack on his own lack of expertise would be invalid.

    2. However, you still miss Horowitz's point. Horowitz's point is that professors use the power and prestige of their Ph.D. degrees, their title of "Professor", to make pronouncements in fields that are not their specialization (and even to teach courses in those fields). He, on the other hand, is now an outside commentator and does *not* use his higher degree in English as evidence of expertise in something else.

    But English Departments, and especially writing programs, have become notorious for doing precisely this over the past generation. Using your explanation that writing has to be about *something*, these faculty empower themselves to teach courses that are (beneath the writing element) really about, say, 9/11 (this happened all over the country), or--in the case of the English prof I had the colloquy about professional competence with here in July--on "American Empire", without ANY of the relevant and really required professional training.

    CalProf put the problem well above in this blog:

    "Faculty should speak as experts only on topics where they have expertise based on recognized scholarship and graduate education...If literature professors wish to expound on foreign policy, global warming, or any other subject outside of their actual knowledge, then they should not do so in the classroom."

    Yet writing profs use the *excuse* of students having to write about *something* to do exactly that. It happens (again) all over the country.

    To cite a painful example close to home, at my own university this autumn, the *English* Department offered the following two courses: “Understanding the U.S. at War” (including a focus on *law*), and “Media and the State” (focusing on “the individual’s relationship to the state at specific moments of global upheaval"), with a selection of left-wing and *only* left wing analyses: e.g., Amy Kaplan.

    Now, regarding the first course, on our campus we have one of the two or three most eminent military historians in the country: someone who has direct experience of the U.S. military, of military universities such as West Point, and of the higher reaches of policy-making in the U.S. government. (I'm not talking about myself.) HE was not invited to participate in the "U.S. at War" course; I doubt that the givers of the course even know who he is. Both courses had a heavy ideological bias and were taught by amateurs not trained professionally in the requisite fields of history, political science, or law.

    MH, I hope you see the general point.

  • addendum
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 31, 2008 at 11:40am EST
  • Dear MH:

    I apologize if the first sentence of the second paragraph in my recent posting above seems a harsh characterization.

    best,

    Prof E

  • Still more on Horowitz and Northern Colorado case
  • Posted by Nevada Ned on December 31, 2008 at 12:05pm EST
  • Horowitz' own self-serving website makes the grudging admission that

    " ...we had possibly erred on some minor points."
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={70DFFEC9-DF0F-4E2B-9585-EDFF754F16E8}

    How minor are these "minor" points? Prof. Ethan says "it doesn't matter that the professor was a Republican." Huh?? Of course it matters. Horowitz claims that conservative students are being indoctrinated by leftwing professors. Since the professor in question was not a leftist, Horowitz' whole case collapses. The facts really do matter, although not to Horowitz or Prof. Ethan

    Finally: Prof. Ethan began his last entry to me with the sentence "Nevada Ned, I don’t you know the Northern Colorado case very well."

    Read that sentence carefully, and read it again. If Prof. Ethan were a student in my class, and turned in that garbled sentence, I would mark on his paper "What are you trying to say?" The garbled sentence gives a pretty good indication of Prof. Ethan's attention to detail and accuracy.

    This is my last entry on the UNC case.

    For more on Horowitz, see his entry on SourceWatch
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_Horowitz_(ex-Marxist)

  • grammar and facts
  • Posted by prof ethan on December 31, 2008 at 12:55pm EST
  • Sorry, Nevada Ned, that sentence should have read:
    “Nevada Ned, I don’t *think* you know the Northern Colorado case very well.”

    That's still my opinion.

    The student won her appeal--an appeal based on political bias Her grade was raised to a "B" in the class.

    During the appeals process (not long afterwards), the professor involved was asked to show the final exam questions and this student's final exam. He said in response that he had destroyed all the exam question-sheets and he could not produce this student's final exam either (he said he'd destroyed it, along with all the other final exams).

    Anyone who has ever taught a course and graded students in it knows what the problem is here.

    From memory, the professor reconstructed the questions. There were four of them. According to that reconstruction:

    the first question required the students to demonstrate their knowledge of two left-wing social theories ("power control theory" and "Integrated-Structural Marxism");

    the second question required students to demonstrate a knowledge of, and the justification for, feminist law theory;

    the students then had a choice: they could answer question 3 which required the students to explain why gay marriage was good for society, or question 4, which was to make the case that the U.S. attacking Iraq was criminal, or (in the student's version of what the exam said), that G. W. Bush was a war criminal.

    The source of these test-questions is the university's own spokesperson, Gloria Reynolds. I think anyone reading these four questions will understand why I think it irrelevant whether or not the professor involved claimed to be a Republican.

    We do not know what the actual test said--the professor destroyed all the exams. This was in violation of university regulations. We do know that the student's appeal of her grade was successful.

  • A problem of academic culture
  • Posted by Jonathan Cohen , Professor of mathematics at DePaul University on December 31, 2008 at 12:55pm EST
  • I think it is a very positive development that David Horowitz was invited to participate in a forum at the Modern Language Association on the subject of the proper role of faculty in the classroom. Whether or not one agrees with Horowitz's arguments or his vehicle for challenging the current practices of some university professors, there is clearly a problem.

    On many faculties there is an orthodoxy on positions of public controversies that is difficult to confront. A faculty member expressing criticism of affirmative action, favorable impressions of George Bush, questioning the existence of man produced global warming, opposition to gay marriage, and out of academic fashion views on a variety of other issues would feel like a bacteria with a bad case of penicillin.

    It is hard to imagine a more dysfunctional group of people than a room full of professors trying to have an honest discussion of race.

    I don't believe that there is really this much uniformity of thought and individual narrow-mindedness on college faculties but the difference in candor between public behavior (faculty meetings) and private conversations strongly suggests problems that must extend to many classrooms.

    Many professors have turned their offices and office doors into political leaflets, virtually none of which challenge what passes for current liberal talking points. What impact can this have on students other than intimidating them to either accepting such orthodoxies or hiding their views.

    There is no question that David Horowitz has become a strong advocate for his political views. But Horowitz is not sitting in a university classroom. He writes books, publishes a popular website and does a great deal of public speaking by which he makes his views known. This is advocacy activity and everyone who hears him is aware of it. Horowitz chose not to be an academic precisely because of his wish to be involved in advocacy. His complaint with the current state of academic life is that academia is not the appropriate place for his kind of advocacy.

    In this he is absolutely right and if you frame it in this way most professors would agree with him. They may not agree that the situation is anywhere as extreme as Horowitz suggests but they will agree in principle that where advocacy has replaced inquiry, academic life is diminshed.

  • Horowitz Should Never Be Invited To Speak
  • Posted by Grover Furr on January 1, 2009 at 4:50pm EST
  • The Radical Caucus criticisms of Horowitz are more than warranted, and the comparison with Goebbels - Hitler's "Big Lie" technique is accurate.

    Horowitz is a slanderer without the least interest in the truth. He lies to an extent scarcely believable -- until one has studied it.

    Horowitz attacks Ward Churchill for lying in a half-dozen cases. This is hypocrisy. Horowitz does little EXCEPT lie.

    For example, in his book and interview he told a dozen falsehoods about me, and never bothered to try to verify a single one of them.

    The Radical Caucus' flyer on Horowitz's appearance at MLA '08 may be viewed, and essays documenting our charges, may be read, at

    http://www.tinyurl.com/radical-caucus-on-horowitz-mla

  • Ayers and Horowitz
  • Posted by Chris , Boomers go away on January 2, 2009 at 5:45am EST
  • Ayers and Horowitz have much more in common than they think. They are both narcissistic, self-promoters whose ideas have no relevance to reality. As others have said Ayers believed in the underpants fairy theory of causality (light bombs, something happens????, war ends) and Horowitz spends his life raving about a problem that doesn't exist. There existence cheapens genuine intellectual debate and discourse.

  • Posted by Laura Rosenthal , Radicalizing the Students on January 2, 2009 at 9:20am EST
  • There have been a couple of references in these comments to Norma Cantú’s ambition to radicalize her students. In her comments, however, she made it clear that this did not mean enforcing one particular set of political viewpoints but rather to opening them up to considering ideas they had perhaps not yet encountered and to examining some of their basic assumptions when they read. This goal strikes me as fully within the purview of a classic liberal arts education and a highly desirable pedagogical strategy. Anyone who characterizes this as indoctrination was not listening carefully enough.

  • A problem that doesn't exist?
  • Posted by Prof Ethan on January 2, 2009 at 10:00am EST
  • 1. Chris, on another blog, a contributer wrote THIS:

    "I’m an academic advisor in an English department, and some of the garbage these profs are teaching in classes should not be allowed, at all. It’s an ENGLISH class, not a political science class. Don’t push your radical beliefs on to the students, and certainly don’t give them bad grades because they disagree with you. Yes, that still happens, A LOT. I wonder what would happen if I actually expressed my political beliefs publicly on my Department? They tend to lean a little right. Maybe I’ll try that, and see what happens."

    An Advisor

    2. If you take a look at ratemyprofessors.com, you will find that both the Stalinist Furr, who favors censorship of those with whom he disagrees, and his follower Margaret Hanzimanolis BOTH have bitter complaints lodged from students that these faculty use their classes narcissistically--not to teach the stated subject-matter of the course (the subject-matter in which they have, presumably, professional expertise), but to gass off about their political beliefs.

    Hanzimanolis emphasizes she's a teacher of writing. To quote a complaint about MH: "We don't talk about english much, we talk about random current news most of the time." As for Furr, his instinct for censorship extends to his classes: there are complaints that you get into trouble if you dare disagree with him in public in the class as he gasses off on topics about which he is not professionally trained.

    3. As I've said before, this is an issue of professional competence. English profs should stick to teaching English. They are NOT professionally trained as economists, sociologists, political scientists, or historians. And their students are paying to be trained in a particular discipline by those who ARE professionally trained in that discipline. So people like Furr and Hanzimanolis are cheating their students, twice.

  • To Laura R
  • Posted by Prof Ethan on January 2, 2009 at 10:15am EST
  • Laura R:

    Cantu argues that one of the purposes of higher education is to challenge students’ cherished beliefs. It's obvious what she means: why are conservative students’ beliefs the only that need be challenged, or that GET challenged in today's classroom?

    If you believe that Norma Cantu, a member of the Radical Caucus of the MLA, uses her classroom to *challenge" the LEFTIST beliefs she is instrumental in trying to enforce on the MLA, well-- I've got a bridge to Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

  • All literature is politically invested
  • Posted by Lucy Graham on January 3, 2009 at 12:50pm EST
  • As a South African academic who grew up under apartheid and attended this year’s MLA, I can only say that conservative attempts to ban politics from the classroom in the US create a sense of déjà vu, reminding me of attempts by the apartheid regime to curtail academics from speaking out about injustices of a corrupt regime. For those who think the analogy between the US and apartheid is inaccurate, I would say that a discrepancy could indeed be noted in a utilitarian argument – the US promotion of unfair trade, its attempts to impede international justice and its continual war-mongering in the middle east (which will affect countries like Iraq for millions of years to come because of the use of depleted uranium in bombs) have been far more damaging on a global scale than anything the apartheid government managed to achieve.
    The US may be a "democracy", a regime voted in by a majority of Americans, but neither this nor its military power qualify it to rule the world. Its aggressive, patriarchal, war-mongering character should indeed be drawn attention to in any form of cultural studies, including literary studies. How, for instance, would one teach J.M. Coetzee's novel Dusklands, without getting students to think about US imperialism alongside the damage brought by European expansionism in Southern Africa? Should we simply not teach texts such as this? This is where the conservative impulse to ban politics from the classroom is heading - towards censorship proper. All literature (even the shortest love poem) is politically invested, and it is our duty as teachers to explore this, among other aspects of the text, in the classroom.

    L. G.

  • Dilettantes and Scholars
  • Posted by Prof Ethan on January 3, 2009 at 3:45pm EST
  • To LG:

    The issue is professional competence. Yes, literature often has a social and political valence, and it needs discussion, but that does not give faculty trained in *literature* the right to use their Ph.D.'s and their title 'Professor" to discourse on subjects for which they have *no* professional training--e.g., in economics, or political science, or sociology or history. Yet many faculty in English are doing precisely this.

    Again, I cited a specific example from my own university, e.g., the course this autumn in the English Department on "Understanding the U.S. at War", with a focus on *law*. Professors of *literature* are not obviously competent to teach such a course; they are not trained in the proper fields (which are history, political science, sociology, and law). As I also said, my campus has one of the two or three most prestigious military historians in the country, and he wasn't invited. Thus do Depts of English work nowadays.

    Down that road lies the use of the classroom as merely a narcissistic venue for the expression of the professor's personal political beliefs, backed up by the prestige of the title "professor"--and the threat of grading. If you check out several of the people who have posted here under their own names, you will find that students complain about their doing precisely this.

    As for censorship, the ONLY people advocating censorship on this thread are on the left. Take a look at Julie Kilmer's opinions from 2007 on how to handle "resistance" in the classroom, which I have quoted above--or the Stalinist Grover Furr's attempt to ban certain opinions from the MLA this week.

    If you will look back over this thread, you will also see my account of the experience I had with a writing teacher who taught "American Empire" as his tool for teaching writing but who had not the slightest idea even of the basic political science literature on this subject. Do you think that is good pedagogy? You can read the full exchange attached to Stanley Fish's essay, "Stick to Teaching", insidehighered.com for July 1, 2008.

    Again, the issue is one of professional competence. One should be very careful about teaching topics in which one has not been professionally trained. It is not what students are paying for, it is not what is meant by "expertise", and it leads all too easily to the classroom become a narcissistic theater for the ego of the faculty-member, in which what we see is (to be blunt) mere political gassing off.

    It's a serious issue on several levels.

  • The argument
  • Posted by Douglas Lewis on January 5, 2009 at 3:20pm EST
  • Prof Ethan, I admire you for your perseverance in addressing your detractors by citing relevant fact after relevant fact again and again. I will try to be as patient and logical as this the next time I face such a situation. Thank you.

  • facts, logic, perseverance
  • Posted by Prof Ethan on January 5, 2009 at 6:00pm EST
  • Thanks. DL-- I really appreciate it.

  • Selected "Relevant" Facts
  • Posted by William Tenney on January 7, 2009 at 2:54pm EST
  • Prof. Ethan: You make excellent points and, it seems to me, miss or ignore many good points that Prof. Gettys makes in the July 1-13 discussion: "Fish to Profs."

    You often seem to equate social sciences like Political Science, Economics, etc. with a more exact science like Physics. Where there can be disagreement among experts there is inevitably something political happening. And that's okay. Humans are political animals. Just admit that you, too, can have a political agenda, even unto overstating what you think goes on in English Departments. (By the way that course on the U.S. at War is a study of a number of LITERARY texts on the U.S. at war. You make it look to IHE readers as though it is the English Dept. doing a history course, which strkes me as slightly disingenuous.)

    As Prof. Gettys makes clear again and again, he is not claiming to teach students any methodology other than his own. Rather, he is teaching students about approaching literature from a social-historical perspective and to see literature/rhetoric as part of cultural studies. Most people in cultural studies will tell you that an understading of various Marxist and feminist modes of analyses is indespensable to cultural theory. For a work of art that, I think, makes a priceless comment on the too-rigid, all-too-artificial drawing of boundaries see John Sayles's film _Lone Star_.

    I say again you make an excellent point where professors' getting off topic in the classroom is concerned (a point on which Gettys agrees with you many times in that lengthy discussion) and which I think is not as commoplace as you make it out to be. In other cases you seem to misconstrue what a social-historical approach to cultural studies is really about.