Search News


Browse Archives

News

Why Not Go Greek?

April 1, 2009

Share This Story

FREE Daily News Alerts

Advertisement

NATIONAL HARBOR, MD. – Though national figures suggest the number of undergraduates associated with Greek organizations has increased slightly in recent years, some individual campuses have seen their chapters struggle with recruitment and retention. In an effort to explore this phenomenon, a new study attempts to profile those students who decide not to join Greek organizations and chronicles their reasons for opting out.

Kristin S. Fouts, assistant director of the student activities and leadership program at Western Michigan University, presented her study before a group of student affairs administrators at a Tuesday meeting of the American College Personnel Association. The study is based on separately conducted surveys of more than 1,500 undergraduates at Wichita State and Western Michigan Universities.

At both institutions, about 86 percent of the surveyed students had not participated in a “fraternity or sorority recruitment or intake activity.” These students cited a number of reasons for not participating. Chief among them, 74 percent of these students they did not care to be associated with the “negative stereotypes associated with membership.” Sixty-four percent of them responded that there was “no perceived benefit” to participation in a Greek organization, 62 percent reported they "could not commit to membership.”

These students were then asked, “What could have changed your decision to not seek membership?” Forty percent responded “overall positive publicity,” and 36 percent said a “clearly conveyed value/benefit.” The remainder said that nothing could have changed their minds.

Those students who had participated in a Greek recruitment activity but ultimately did not join an organization cited most of the same reasons for their decision. Some, however, also noted that they were “not comfortable with the process.”

On a more positive note, many students who sought out fraternity or sorority membership did so because of the influence of their peers who were already members. Sixty-seven percent of these students said their primary interest was to making new friends. Forty-eight percent said the “social scene” attracted them, and 44 percent said “leadership development” was among the factors that made them participate.

Fouts, however, expressed a number of concerns about the figures expressed in her study. Nearly 60 percent of students who did not participate noted that the “source of [their] knowledge/understanding of social fraternities and sororities” came primarily from television shows and movies.

“Though we cannot stop what they see on television and in the movies, we can help debunk what they see,” Fouts said of incoming students and their perceptions of Greek life. “Maybe we can sway the tipping point of students who have some knowledge [of the Greek system].”

Fouts added that the student dissatisfaction with the recruitment process should raise a red flag for student affairs officials. Looking at this data, she noted that Western Michigan recently made a change in the way its sororities can recruit. Previously, sororities recruited in four rounds over the course of three days, often not offering time for students with other commitments to participate. Now, these recruitment cycles are more spread out and allow for make-up rounds.

The current economic crisis has changed the way students think about money, and Fouts acknowledges that perceptions about fraternity and sorority dues are no different. Chapters and student affairs offices, she said, will have to be "line-item specific" as to what these dues are for and how they will be spent to the benefit of the student. She argued that interested students should not be brought to think of their funds as “paying for friends,” as many an old cliché of fraternity life states.

“Students need to know specifically what is going to be required of them,” Fouts said of financial commitments. “If your organization is hesitant to put that out there, then I challenge you to encourage them to be more specific up front with that [for prospective members].”

Fouts and others familiar with Greek issues at the meeting said they were unsure how the economic crisis would impact membership. Still, some acknowledged that those students with only a cursory interest in a fraternity or a sorority might only see dollar signs before noting the potential benefits of Greek life.

Perhaps the most troubling bit of data to those in attendance – primarily student affairs officers who see the Greek system as a positive infleunce on their campuses – was that 44 percent of those students did not seek Greek membership because their “personal values conflicted with the perceived chapter values.” Some argued that Greek organizations must be modified to resemble the diversity of their campuses, saying that those that don’t will fail.

“One size does not fit all,” Fouts said. “We can no longer be passive with recruiting.”

Others noted that some of their students were interested in Greek life, just not with any of the organizations that were present on their campuses.

Bethany Manley-Craig, assistant director of student development at New England College, said many of the more local fraternities and sororities on her campus simply cannot attract members in the way that national organizations can, even when they do not have a local chapter. For some students, she said, this presents a situation wherein they cannot find an organization that shares their values.

Humberto Baquerizo, assistant director of Greek life and wellness at the New Jersey Institute of Technology, said he believed many of today’s students look to Greek organizations for more than just “foam parties” and other social gatherings. He said many at his institution seek an outlet for community service, advising, guidance and a sense of “family.”

If students do not find these values expressed in the Greek system on their campuses, many at the meeting said, they would find them elsewhere. Most seemed to think that non-Greek organizations have begun fulfilling the leadership and service roles once predominately held by fraternities and sororities at their institutions. This environment, they argued, gives these groups less of a hold on today’s students.

Charles G. Eberly, professor of counseling and student development at Eastern Illinois University, said some Greek organizations could be in danger of extinction if they do not change. He argued that fraternities and sororities should get rid of the “pledge system” by which students must earn full membership. This, he said, would foster a “culture of integrity” among these organizations, something he believes today’s students demand.

“Millennial students react negatively to a culture of entitlement,” said Eberly of something he believes the pledge system cultivates. “If we don’t make changes, students are voting with their feet and these organizations will disappear.”

See all postings »
Advertisement
Advertisement

Matching Jobs

Comments on Why Not Go Greek?

  • Posted by J. Barton on April 1, 2009 at 7:30am EDT
  • Fraiternities and sororities are dinosaurs. Their exclusiveness and lack of relevance will be their undoing. Absolutely NOTHING should be done about assisitng them to survive,

  • Still Thriving
  • Posted by JPW on April 1, 2009 at 9:00am EDT
  • Fraternities and Sororities have historically played a significant roll in shapting the culture of college campuses and will continue to do so. No other group has consistantly provided leadership, service, and support to students across the nation like fraternities and sororities. Granted these organizations are not perfect, but they are an excellent environment and opportunity for educators concerned with the wholistic development of college students to facilitate developmental conversation with students about their values and behaviors.

  • Let's not make this story a referendum on the Greek system
  • Posted by Open Minded at Cornell University on April 1, 2009 at 11:45am EDT
  • Those who point out the flaws of the Greek system have lots of evidence to support their claims. The Greek community needs to do a better job of self-regulation. At the same time, many other student groups on campus participate in hazing and destructive behavior. The Duke Men's Lacrosse team comes to mind. So do ROTC groups. So do some religious groups on campuses. This article is about a study that shows that many misperceptions of the Greek community exist. So far, the replies to the story have validated those points. As an advisor to a Greek organization, I agree that many Greek organizations will indeed go the way of the dinosaurs and become extinct if they cannot clean up their acts and become more relevant. At the same time, many Greek organizations provide housing, leadership opportunities, scholarships, philanthropy, and social programming that universities are unwilling to invest in. Many colleges have become very good at outsourcing their social programming to the Greek system and then blaming these groups when difficulites occur. Only through cooperation, investment, and partnership will colleges and Greek groups be able to continue to contribute postively to campus culture.

  • Time to really get serious but can we?
  • Posted by John on April 1, 2009 at 11:45am EDT
  • While I had a good experience in my time with Greek organizations, the general culture and structure of the organizations are their major flaws. The pledge education system very often breaks down and the too often lack of adult supervision is evident when the commonly reported problems happen. I have watched the systems for more than 20 years and despite very public and expensive PR campaigns, leadership initiatives and attempts to essentially rebuild them, the models seem to fail often. The chapters work well with a strong program and regular supervision but on campuses with 30 to 50 chapters, the process often breaks down. Most Greek advisors know that chapter breakdowns can be predicted and they just don't blow up over night. The national organizations are understaffed to provide the kind of supervision required and a once a year visit will not do much to keep a chapter on a strong path without much more local involvement and effort. The model just has a lot of weak points in it. Granted the organizations can be a powerful force for good and they have long associations and ties to campus history but in the final analysis everyone involved in the systems from the national organizations to the campus based student affairs staff assigned to work with them knows the problems are based upon a organizational model that cannot be easily sustained and one that is rooted in the culture of the system. Until we really really reconsider the entire model from national to local, the usual problems that occur with lax supervision and poor or nonexistent programs (hazing, substance abuse, assault, community standards issues, poor academics) will resurface regularly and undermine the efforts of those chapters and organizations that have worked hard within the system to be all they should be.

  • i just don't get it
  • Posted by aliceprof , asst prof at nonamecollege on April 1, 2009 at 11:45am EDT
  • I am mystified by this article. Having lived, I'm sorry to say, right on frat row during my graduate education, I had a close-up-and-personal view of the activities undertaking by quite a number of frats and sororities. Yes, blood drives and big sister/big-brother activities and so forth were featured prominently on campus; and yes, the frats served as a site of instant "community": but do we really want to promote communities that are to a very large degree based on partying, social status, exclusion, and hazing? Then of course there's plagiarism and its related "brothers." Plus also gender stereotype and so forth. Frats encourage students to sort themselves into the sorts of distinct groups (raced, classed) that college life is supposed to attempt to mix up; they encourage herd mentality and elitism from the first moments of rush week; they discourage individualism and promote the group at all costs; and they have, as we all know, a long history (not in all cases but in many) of creating opportunities for and sheltering extremely bad behavior. Unless Student Services offices are staffed by very loyal frat alums, I can't begin to understand the impulse to spend resources on trying to promote the damn things.

  • Ditch the Bathwater, Not the Baby
  • Posted by alp on April 1, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • There are benefits to the Greek system, particularly at large universities where it can be difficult to build relationships and find structured social/service/leadership activities.

    Through my sorority (Pi Beta Phi), I was able to hold various offices and learn organizational management skills, budgeting, event planning, curriculum building, public speaking, and other skills that helped equip me for work after graduation. It introduced me to philanthropy, and it forced me to interact with personalities of members whom I otherwise might not choose to interact with (so I learned to get along with different people socially and when working together). And for me -- who never drank in college -- the party scene was secondary.

    Certainly, not everyone chooses to take these kinds of experiences away from the Greek life, but the same could be said for any of our students in any of our classes -- that some take away a great deal, while other do little more than warm a chair. And yes, there are a lot of unfortunate activities going on in the Greek system, but remove the Greek system, and the same students would be doing to the same stupid stuff without letters on their chests.

    My hope is that the system would veer back to its true fraternal roots to empahsize purpose above the parties. I know it's a long shot, but I'm not ready to scrap the whole thing.

  • Yes! Let them die.
  • Posted by Liz Claire , Office Specialist at University of Minnesota on April 1, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • Our office is right next to several Fraternities. I am so underwhelmed by their contribution to society.

    The only thing they have done of note in the last year is encouraged cars overstuffed with young women to drive around the same block repeatedly with people hanging out the windows hooting and hollering. (Why?)

    Let them fade into nothing. I wont miss them.

  • Phi Kappa Phi
  • Posted by Independent on April 1, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • I agree that the social frats and sororities no longer serve a purpose. When colleges were almost entirely WASP establishments, they grew out of the desire of students to set themselves apart from their peers. They served that purpose pretty well. Maybe they still do in some places. But students today have an array of other opportunities on campus that can offer very similar benefits at far lower costs. The Greek system isn't "paying for friends"; it's paying for benefits that are available cheaper elsewhere on campus. We should, perhaps applaud students for behaving as intelligent, informed consumers when they choose not to go Greek.

    Institutions would hardly suffer--except, perhaps, in terms of housing requirements--if the Greek social system gave up the ghost.

  • Solid contributors in many cases
  • Posted by An administrator at UVA on April 1, 2009 at 1:30pm EDT
  • I am a student affairs administrator who is also a fraternity alumnus. As one above poster stated, Greek letter societies are very often a key contributor to helping students find a close-knit "family" in a large institution. Greek letter alumni have also been shown in studies to be among the most loyal in terms of financial contributions to their school. At many colleges and universities, they are also disproportionally represented in the ranks of student leadership positions, perhaps indicitaive of the quality of student they attract to membership. I think they will continue to evolve over time as have many institutions themselves; for instance, many such groups on my campus have become more diverse in recent years. I think they will be a key part of the student scene for many, many years to come, despite the hopes of their detractors.

  • WHY NOT?
  • Posted by JNB on April 1, 2009 at 1:45pm EDT
  • Open Minded wrote: "Let's not make this story a referendum on the Greek system"
    WHY NOT?

    Explain to me what they offer. Having been on the faculty of two universities with Greek systems (large tier 1 and small private tier 3), I still don't see what they offer students or the community over more traditional organizations. The skills offered by so some other commentators are available in other formats without the beer, sex, and hazing that seem to permeate frat row.

    Let them die a natural death, no stimulus package for frats.

  • Interesting...
  • Posted by Just me on April 1, 2009 at 2:30pm EDT
  • Being a long-time sister of a GLO, I find it interesting how strong the opinions are of people who are unaffiliated. If the Sororities and Fraternities on your campus(es) provided nothing, then there would be no GLO's on your campus. The population on college campuses, especially within undergraduate programs, are a difficult one to manage no matter what.

    Our organization offers quite a lot of positive experiences for our membership, our alumnae and often for the greater community. At the larger (big 10 type) campuses GLO's offer housing for the students that campus housing cannot sustain. We offer women the potential to gain and use leadership skills, we offer the opportunity for additional scholarship support, we provide a network of opportunities that exist outside the confines of the campus itself.

    I doubt that anyone involved actively in their organization would find the comments "let them die a natural death" palatable at all. Many of our organizations continue to grow and thrive, providing positive experiences for collegiate members and alumnae for a lifetime.

    Best wishes to you all. I am amused by the way, that the simple factor of exclusivity so turns some of you away from exploring GLO's. Isn't it the same level of discrimination so to speak that you use against these organizations to lump them all together as not being worthwhile or worthy?

  • From Our Perspective: Why Men Are Joining
  • Posted by Pete Smithhisler , President at The North-American Intefraterntiy Conference on April 1, 2009 at 3:45pm EDT
  • What Kristin Fouts’ research at Wichita State and Western Michigan universities highlights supports what the North-American Interfraternity Conference (NIC) learned in 2003 when it conducted national, independent focus groups with undergraduates considered to be both “joiners” and “non joiners,” as well as with parents, faculty and fraternity alumni. Social organization membership has been in decline for some time, as Fouts points out. It’s true that until recently fraternity membership has been trending with the likes of Rotary, Kiwanis, Freemasons, and local bowling leagues. What the NIC learned in 2003, when fraternity membership began its UPWARD trend, is that college-age men join fraternities for five primary reasons:

    • Leadership opportunities
    • Academic success programs / peer accountability
    • Networking / post college relationships
    • Brotherhood / friendship
    • Social opportunities

    The NIC, celebrating its centennial in 2009, is the trade association representing 73 international and national men’s fraternities. Through advocacy, collaboration, and education, the NIC works to ensure that fraternities can operate in an environment conducive to their success. Fouts’ research reinforces how we as a community, and how each fraternity and chapter individually, can further accomplish that.

  • Posted by Anonymous on April 1, 2009 at 4:45pm EDT
  • By "Academic success programs," Mr. Smithhisler, do you mean the strategically organized files of previous exams in commonly taken courses to cheat off of?

  • So many things to offer
  • Posted by Sister for life on April 1, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • I spent three years of my college career without a Greek organization. I had the opinions of so many others, I spent my time in what, at the time, I thought were worthwhile organizations. To be truthful with you I found out that those organizations were simply resume boasters. I had honor societies and Student Government, you name it, I was at least a member, if not an officer. My last year I realized I had wasted 3 1/2 good years giving to organizations that gave me nothing in return. There was no satisfaction in what I had been doing, and once I was gone, those organizations could care less. They do not look back at their "alumni" and think wow, they came before me.

    After this revelation I went somewhere that not only would allow me to give back, but I would have something in return. I gained a family, leadership experience like none in the past, and more than anything a sense that I was part of something greater than myself. The sorority I am a member of holds ourselves to a higher standard, We over excel at Community Service, we were awarded Chapter of Excellence at our University last year, and are vying for the title again. We do not haze, or treat our members like they are different. We consider ourselves diverse in a medium size college in a small state. We get little support despite the effort we give in making ourselves and our community better. I can speak for the Greek Girls at my University when I say we care and try to give back as much as possible. This semester I was awarded an internship at my state capitol building. While working I ran into a representative that was an alumnae of my chapter. Just today I received a letter from her talking about her experiences and her pride in me for being an intern in such a high office. Even though she came way before, she is still my sister, and we are linked heart-to-heart as sisters.

    I understand most people think of sorority girls and fraternity guys as people you do not want to be around or affiliate yourself with. I can tell you that until you get to know them, it is important to not judge them. Stereotypes hurt people and the reputations they try to uphold. Not only did I join a sorority, I decided to stay an additional year for a second degree and to spend time with the sisters I had missed out on for so many years. I know that each university is different, however, take the time to get to know your Greek Organizations before you consider them to be a detriment to your university.

  • So many ignorant comments...
  • Posted by appalled , President at National Fraternity on April 1, 2009 at 6:30pm EDT
  • The sheer amount of ignorant comments on this post is staggering. I'm willing to bet that most everyone who had something negative to say was never part of a fraternity or sorority in their college experience (assuming they even went to college). Otherwise, the comments would be more balanced. Furthermore, said ignorance is merely perpetuating the stereotype, which fuels the bad press and propaganda. Frankly, it's all sickening.

    J. Barton: "Fraternities and sororities are dinosaurs." Have you ever seen/met a dinosaur, J? Exclusivness? Lack of relevance? Please. Spare me your uninformed band-waggoning. Pathetic at best.

    no Greek here: "...hazing pranks, hijinks, debauchery, sexual violence, tragic deaths..." Well done. You've actually managed to perfectly describe every single collegiate sports team on every campus throughout the country! Don't like that analogy? Why would you use the same to describe Greek systems? I'm appalled at your complete lack of knowledge about Greek life. This is the same bigotted prejudiced viewpoint that perpetuated racism in this country. Nice of you to define an entire culture by the actions of a scant few individuals. I think you'll find college deaths related to alcohol, sexual assaults, and similar crimes far more rampant among the athletes and general population, than among Greek organizations.

    aliceprof: "...based on partying, social status, exclusion, and hazing... plagiarism and it's related 'brothers'... they encourage herd mentality and elitism." What century are you living in? Our fraternity's purpose is to include everyone, and is open to members from all over campus, of any race, religion, creed, social background, ethnicity, physical makeup, et cetera. You are also stereotyping an entire culture based on your misperceptions. The commonly attributed illicit behavior is far more common among military and athletic groups on campus these days. And if you work on a campus, you know that. I don't know why you would continue to perpetuate the stereotype, then.

    Liz Claire: I think you need to step outside your office and see what fraternities and sororities are contributing to society. You will not find that next door to Greek row. If you have just that one narrow viewpoint, you will never see the greater whole, but merely one of the parts.

    Independent: "...social frats and sororities no longer serve a purpose." I'll tell that to our chapter in New Orleans, who is cleaning up the neighborhoods still devastated after Katrina. That is not a publicity stunt, either; they do it every weekend and were not instructed to. I'll pass your comments along to our chapter in St. Louis, who made a pilgrimmege to Mississippi to rebuild houses destroyed by storms. I'll tell that our our chapters all over the country that they no longer serve a purpose to the communities that they serve. I'll also pass along your comments to the battered women, the starving children, the homeless and powerless, and the needy communities that all of our chapters assist in their daily lives. Yes, we are a national social fraternity. Yes, we do what every other student on campus fails to do: help others in need. Yes, we provide a much-needed purpose that even professors and administrators won't do. We comfort those in need, while the rest of the campus population just applauds and turns away. "Oh, it must be a publicity stunt, but good for them!" Such ignorance... Oh, and I'll also tell all of our recent graduates that they should quit their jobs that any alumnus has helped them to procure. Obviously, they are not suited for work, since they are just 'frat' guys.

    JNB: "Explain to me what they offer." Sure, I can do that. Job training, community service and outreach, campus events when students are constantly flocking away from campus, athletic outlets for those who do not make teams, social skills, team-building expertise, leadership development, alumni relations, alumni donations, et cetera. Seriously, I can go on.

    Anonymous: "...the strategically organized files of previous exams in commonly taken courses to cheat off of?" Are you saying you've cheated off of exams? Otherwise, I find it difficult to believe that you've managed to visit every single fraternity chapter at every single campus to determine the amount of tests that have been collected over the years, and in what fashion and format. While I appreciate your generosity in assuming that such files would be so immaculately collected, from visiting the chapters in my own fraternity, I've yet to stumble across one such collection. Care to visit with me and point them out? You obviously have the expertise on this subject. Seriously, are you joking? Is that what you honestly believe? Join the ranks of the bigots, then, anonymous, because you are assigning the blame to Greeks, instead of athletes, ROTC, and the general student population.

    What charlatans we must deal with! It's one thing to say that fraternities have done nothing for the community around them, but another to pick up the challenge and pitch in yourselves. How many of you nay-sayers out there devote your time, money, and energy to helping others? Cast the first stone, then! How many of you nay-sayers have been in a legitimate Greek system? Cast the next stone! How many of you have spent hours studying with your brothers/sisters in an effort to focus on your studies and bring up your grades? You got it, you get to cast the next stone.

    All I am hearing is the uneducated ramblings of people who never took the time to investigate Greek life on a personal basis. You let the media do your work for you, and you sit back and feed off the negative energy that it brings. Well, guess what? I was a nobody before I joined my local chapter as an undergraduate. I didn't take on the identity of who they were, though; instead, they helped me to discover who I already was! I became a truer person because of that experience, and I matured very quickly. The leadership skills I learned, and the outreach I participated in have helped me to take on further leadership roles, both in my career, in my fraternity, and in my community.

    If you want to isolate and stereotype every Greek organization out there based on whatever the media wants to tell you; if you want to harangue a group of young men and women without allowing them a chance to defend themselves; if you want to degrade and diminish all of the positive aspects that fraternities and sororities bring to campuses, then you are no better than the negative imagery you purport to dislike. Anyone can sit back on their laurels and bring out the worst in everybody. I prefer to reserve judgment on entire groups of individuals, and instead get to know the man or woman for whom he or she is.

  • re: So many ignorant comments...
  • Posted by CompLitProf on April 1, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • Dear "appalled",

    1. If you want people to understand and appreciate you, it's best not to lash out with an insult-laced diatribe.

    2. If you want to erase stereotypes, don't employ the strategy "If you think we're bad, you should see the athletes". The athletes won't like it, and the rest of us can see through this rhetorical device, and through all the others you've so furiously employed.

  • Re: CompLitProf
  • Posted by appalled , President at National Fraternity on April 2, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • 1. There is no understanding or appreciation, only ignorance. I am left with few options. Sadly, I cannot rely on the standard intelligence of the individual to think outside of what popularism portrays. Again, it's the same pig-headed thinking that keeps racism alive around the world. It's sickening, and I am running out of weapons to fight it. I want people to stop being spoon-fed their doctrine, and instead, start to use their brains to do their own investigation and actually form opinions that are genuine and true.

    2. Athletes on my campus were known for throwing huge 'keggers' on a regular basis, and when our school made national news for hazing, it was due to one of our women's teams. I hope they don't like my calling them out! Statistically speaking, I wasn't shifting blame, it was fact. The reason no one seems to care, especially the schools, is due to the income generated by the athletic departments. One would be blind not to realize that. Still, I retract any comments at this time that call out any specific organizations on campuses across the country, and replace it instead with merely 'other organizations.' Between you and me, CompLitProf, you know that I'm accurate. I'm willing to back off of other orgs individually, though, and instead leave it at that. Other orgs.

  • "entitlement" versus "integrity"
  • Posted by Chuck Eberly , Professor of Counseling and Student Development at Eastern Illinois University on April 2, 2009 at 8:15pm EDT
  • For those who are interested in the foundation for my comments at this session of the ACPA Conference, please find Michael Kimmel, Guyland, 2008, and Nicholas Syrett, In the Company He Keeps, 2009. As Mr. Smitheisler stated, the research described at this conference has the potential to support the college fraternity movement in many very important ways, not the least of which is to interest, involve, and engage new members in meaningful collegiate experiences.

  • re: apalled
  • Posted by Robot Kitchen at An urban school in northeast Ohio on April 2, 2009 at 8:15pm EDT
  • Thank you. I will admit that you were a little venomous, but you had a point; when a fraternity does something good, it's always seen as a restorative action for something they did bad. There's no appreciation for any activity since, to those outside, like J. Barton, we are only making up for poor behavior.

    Another thing; there's been a lot of talk about fraternities being excessively homogeneous organizations. I honestly cannot see that in my fraternity, let alone any other fraternity on my campus. Call me biased, brainwashed, or whatever you will, but I would really appreciate it if you were to contact one of these "worthless" organizations and ask to attend a meeting or service event.

    While I do not necessarily agree with universities subsidizing portions of fraternity budgets, I do believe that they provide a surrogate family at college. I consider my brothers to be the brothers I never had. They stood beside me when my grandmother died and at every rocky juncture. Yes, we have drank together; that being said, why is that so taboo?

    Returning to the point of other organizations replacing the fraternities, I would say that this is not so. A fraternity inspires a culture of internal accountability that may not necessarilly appear in non-Greek organizations. In my experience as both a fraternity officer and an officer in an English department student organization, I noticed that fraternity members were more willing to commit and follow through with committments than non-Greeks. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I believe that other Greeks can vouch for this, too.

    Also, to complitprof, thank you for your input. I have some rebuttals:

    1. The above comments constitute an attack on the Greek system, and your targetting of appalled's language, a bit biting as it is, reveals your own bias. You are defending the people who offend appalled, thus leading one to infer that you stand against Greek organizations.

    2. Besides the ad hominem on athletes, what other rhetorical devices has appalled failed to deploy properly? Furthermore, where have I failed? I don't mean to be facetitious, but how should one go about arguing this point?

  • Never a Greek
  • Posted by Obviously not a Greek on April 4, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • What irritates me is how "superior" the Greeks always acted when I was in school. Surprisingly our whole family (father, mother, three kids) all went to a large midwestern university and survived without any part of the Greek system. We found plenty of activities to engage us. And we didn't flounder because we didn't have a "sisters" or "brothers" to hold our hands. It can be done and well!

  • Concerned
  • Posted by Concerned on April 5, 2009 at 6:15pm EDT
  • Whether you like Greeks or not, there is a need for the close group of friends that are forged through these organizations. Sure you could ban Greeks on college campuses, but the truth is, if you did, what would hapeen is other organizations would evolve into what fraternities and sororities are.

    On many campuses, honor societies, such as Phi Sigma Pi, Phi Kappa Phi, etc. and "service" organizations such as Gamma Sigma Sigma, and Epsilon Sigma Alpha already mimic "Greek" organizations, this doesnt even mention Alpha Phi Omega, and Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia. If you get rid of organizations, such as those Mr. Smithhisler represents, you will not have a trade association, or strong national organizations that manage these groups on college campuses.

    Not all Greek national organizations are created equal, some hold their chapter accountable, some do not. This is the bigger issue with Greek organizations on an individual chapter level. New member programs need to be abolished, and chapters need to be shut down a lot sooner than they are allowed to stay on campuses. However, this does not mean just shut down all of them. These groups need to evolve to keep up with todays college student, and today's society.

    Overall, the Greek system does fill a need of college students. If it doesn't happen in a fraternity or sorority, it will happen in another organization that doesn't have risk management policies, national organizations, or the infrastructure to help manage the issues.

  • It's All Greek To Me
  • Posted by Kamerica on April 7, 2009 at 9:45am EDT
  • The college I attended had no fraternities or sororities so I didn't have any firsthand experience when my children went off to college.  As the article suggests, my perception regarding the Greek system, was formed from movies and television and for the most part, it was not positive.

    So, when my daughters wanted to RUSH, I encouraged them to go through the process and judge for themselves.  One of them chose to join a sorority and the other did not. The one who joined became a leader in her sorority and made some lifelong friends. The one who chose not to take the bid she was offered is doing just fine on her campus, getting involved in other student activities, although her perception of the Greek system is definitely a negative one.  

    I can see both sides now but I agree with the article that the recruitment process has some flaws. My "sorority" daughter became a Pi Chi (disassociated from her own sorority just through the recruitment process) during RUSH to help the pledges through the process.  Viewing it behind the scenes, she complained the process was too quick to make fair judgments and almost random in terms of final selection.  Nevertheless, she still has fond memories of her sorority life and is involved today as an alumni, at a chapter in another state.  

    The difference between the experiences of my children has caused me to question the differences between the RUSH process at the two universities my daughters attended.  One school held RUSH in the fall and one school held it in the spring.  It seems to me that students have a better Greek experience and make better choices when they don't have to participate in RUSH at the beginning of their freshmen year.  It immediately sets up those who "belong" and those who are "outsiders" before they have even begun their college experience and that is very unfortunate.  If it were up to me, I would make every fraternity and sorority hold RUSH in the spring term when students are more acclimated to college life and more capable of making informed choices.  Could it be that the Greeks are worried that they won't receive as many pledges if they wait a semester?

  • Why not go Greek?
  • Posted by UGOTTA B. KIDDIN , Professor at University on April 8, 2009 at 8:45am EDT
  • Because I discovered I could find dates, get intoxicated, and act like a baboon all by myself. I also could participate in political and social causes without a "peer group".

    I have seen the Greek system in action in two of the four schools I attended and the ones without had a far better social scene...people discovered they could hold parties, do community service, etc. without everything being strained through the funnels and gatekeepers.

    In short, if an organization's symbol is a tool of public humiliation, don't you think something's out of whack?

  • All these comments...
  • Posted by Astonished , Regional President of Fraternity on April 8, 2009 at 7:00pm EDT
  • First I want to respond to a comment made:• By "Academic success programs," Mr. Smithhisler, do you mean the strategically organized files of previous exams in commonly taken courses to cheat off of?
    That is simply irrational thinking...Every student group on every campus from Residence Halls to fraternities to sports teams to Student Government officials have and share tests and papers with each other. They do this in an effort to further their education and obviously in an effort do better on said test or paper. This does not mean that they cheat, what it means is that they are using their resources to better themselves. Now, I cannot argue with anyone that "IF" the professor is unable or simply does not change their tests or papers from semester or quarter to semester or quarter then there is the potential for any student to cheat because it is the exact same test. I submit that it is a professors responsibility to update and change their testing procedures rather than "not expect" the students to communicate with each other. Faculty cannot simply create a test and then, because they are tenured think that they can simply continue to use the exact same test and syllabus each year.
    I visit fraternity chapters throughout the country and never do they have some "test file" which they keep in a locked room. Instead, just like all students they talk in their peer groups and they pass information to each other about tests and papers. All this is regardless of the fact that many, many faculty member's tests are available on line anyway. I am not saying there is not a potential for what has been categorized as cheating by several comments, what I am saying is that this happens with every student and student group regardless of their affiliation or not and that if a faculty member continually gives the exact same test this is going to happen every time. All students eventually figure it out how to obtain information or which faculty’s class to take because they “have same tests each year.”
    Secondly, I just want to say that Greek Life on virtually every campus I have ever visited (total of 79 different campuses) is incredibly important to the students and members that are there. Sure things happen which are less than ideal. Sure chapter members break rules and often times are personifications of the stereotypes’, but those situations are not the norm. Fraternities are not perfect, just like life isn't perfect. But the fact remains that Greek students tend to be more involved on campus, Greek students tend to graduate at a higher rate than the average student, and Greek students tend to return to campus more often after graduation.
    Every campus I have visited is better because they have a Greek system, even with its faults, because it provides a tremendous boost to the campus environment. Some have argued that they survived and even thrived without Greek involvement, well of course, many students do thrive without Greek involvement, but there are students which need that support structure. There are students which want that support structure and want the networking abilities, the leadership development, the organization, a little slice of the real world while in college, and I could go on. Greek life is simply a means by which some students decide to gain that ever important "outside the classroom" learning. And that is the true benefit! I have 3 degrees, and I can categorically state that nothing I learned in any classroom on any campus where I attained those degrees has helped me in my career as a small business owner. Taking ballroom dancing didn't help me, taking art history certainly didn't help me, but every day I use skills I was taught and learned as an officer of a fraternity in the small business that I own.
    Finally, what I find fascinating in all the posts whether angered or calm, supportive or anti-Greek, is that the majority of the posts have little to do with the whole picture. Many on college campuses have the slanted belief that higher education (in which I have a master's degree) is this tremendous calling, it is the end all be all of societal evolution, higher education is the answer to all the issues facing our nation. Many posts talk about what college is supposed to be and what it is supposed to be teaching, well I submit that higher education is supposed to be teaching students how to better themselves, how to improve their current situation, how to become independent minded, self starting people with an eye toward the future and most importantly college is supposed to teach them how to make more money!
    No one, in their right mind goes to college with the idea that they will graduate and then make minimum wage. Involvement in Greek Life teaches students to become better people, it teaches students to improve their current situation, it teaches them to think independently, it teaches them to be self-starting people and most importantly because a fraternity chapter is a small business, it teaches them how to make money. Now that might be considered elitist by some, it might be considered a questionable value by some, but it is the real world. And the real world is not even remotely similar to a college campus. The real world is difficult, unfair and often ethically questionable. In the real world people have success and failure, they face incredibly tough challenges and they don’t get Government Grants to support their business efforts or studies like on a college campus. Without Greek Life on a campus to provide this type of education which is often lacking, a “true” education is not completed by a college student. Let’s be honest, all the studies in the world on student development, student involvement, student behavior do not change or even begin to touch on any real issues.
    Greek Life provides an educational piece to the entire puzzle, whether you like fraternities or dislike them, they are here to stay and will remain a vibrant part of campuses for years to come because they provide what is sorely lacking, real world preparedness. *And, I also agree that outside the class room education can happen without Greek Life. But, I submit that Greek Life organizes, structures and provides outside the classroom education for its members innately, while students not involved in Greek Life must seek it themselves and it is often not readily available for them on their campuses or things such as career development are taught by a faculty member or TA which has no career experience outside of the campus environment.

  • Fraternities from a Greek's point of view.
  • Posted by Jessica on May 11, 2009 at 4:45am EDT
  • Fall of last year, I rushed, joined, and was initiated into one of the biggest and most succesful womens sororities in the nation. I will leave it unnamed, as I want to avoid the personal attacks against my organization or mention something that might discredit my opinion before I even begin. As a greek, I hope to offer some insight into people that have the wrong perception of sororties and fraternities but to warn against some of the things that come with the territory. I decided and still believe that if I were a man of value, I would never join a fraternity.

    The other day, one of guy friends in Phi Gamma Delta told me that "I could call my entire pledge class and they would be here for me to do anything in under 10 minutes." That's great - but how did this loyalty and close knit bonding occur? In chapter, when they pass a puck and talk about the latest sorority girls they had sex with. During their chapter retreat, where they are encouraged and sometimes even forced to binge drink so the older actives can have a laugh. Hazing (not on all college campuses) that hurts, is humiliating, and causes physical and mental pain/discomfort. Can't you find friends that can exhibit this kind of loyalty in other organizations? Preferably not in an organization where a percentage of dues goes into buying alcohol for the large theme parties you throw every weekend. (Thats right parents, you're paying for your kids to get trashed.) Fraternities often have an elitist attitude - where they must all wear the latest clothing trends (Sperrys, Polo, Patagonia, North Face, Southern Proper...sound familiar?) and display their wealth. They also say that they are gentlemen and scholars but their behavior on weekends and towards other members of their university who arent greek (affectionately referred to as GDI's, God Damn Independents) and their chapter GPA's beg to differ.

    There are expections to every rule, and I don't want to be unfair to the men of great value that are currently in or have come from their respective chapters and fraternities. Fraternites have been known to produce some of the greatest leaders of our country, not to mention athletes, business moguls, actors, congressman, etc.IN THE PAST. (I would not be surprised if this trend did not continue, due to the substantial changes in the mentality of fraternities today) They also offer rich networking after college and benefits of being alumni. I just do not agree with the current trends of promoting mediocrity and peer pressure that emphasizes sameness when we human beings are so different. If I were to envision the future of our country made up of men that I see exhibiting the kind of behavior that is encouraged and praised in the greek community and by their "brothers" today in the 21st century, I would definately overlook the benefits and become a man of character, value, and intelligence without the greek letters on my chest.

  • Best of both worlds
  • Posted by Lambda Epsilon Omega at AUM on December 7, 2009 at 4:45pm EST
  • When I rushed some fraternities at my university in Fall 2004 (Phi Beta Sigma, Alpha Tau Omega, Sigma Phi Epsilon, and Lambda Chi Alpha), everything was going well until 1) they learned I was married and 2) I learned how much their dues were. Although most of the guys were all right, I just couldn't understand why anyone would drop hundreds of dollars for the incredibly little they had to offer. Only one frat (Phi Beta Sigma) actually gave me a bid, but instead I started my own fraternity (Lambda Epsilon Omega...based off the one in the movie 'Old School'). I had a jacket made and established a scholarship at my campus, as well as participated in parties and community service activities with the friends I made during rush week and throughout the semester. Some Greeks initially considered me a GDI, but eventually they welcomed me at all events (especially when many of their 'brothers' stopped paying dues or failing out of college!). Now I've graduated and am still recognized as a Greek alum, while half of those frats don't even have an active chapter on campus anymore only five years later. Bottom line: Don't send money to 'national' when you can invest it in yourself.