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'The Student Loan Scam'

May 5, 2009

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Not everyone would willingly choose to become the public face of the debt-ridden. Alan Collinge didn't exactly choose to do so, defaulting on $38,000 in student loans only after a series of missteps and strokes of misfortune, but he has embraced his situation with gusto, founding StudentLoanJustice.org to advocate for distressed borrowers and now writing a book, The Student Loan Scam (Beacon Press).

Collinge's tactics have at times been controversial -- he has been criticized for personally attacking student loan lobbyists, for instance -- but with the Obama administration putting the student loan programs front and center in its higher education agenda, the industry he writes about and his views are likely to remain relevant. In an e-mail interview, Collinge discussed his personal experiences and his assertion that none of the policy changes currently being debated will make a difference for borrowers without reform of federal bankruptcy laws.

Q. Can you give our readers the 1-minute version of how you ended up getting into such a jam with student loans? How much of your situation evolved because of your own (potentially flawed) decisions, and how much because of the unfair practices or policies or rules by other parties?

A. I originally borrowed $38,000 in FFEL loans for college, and graduated from the University of Southern California in 1999 with undergrad and graduate degrees in aerospace engineering. I took a job (with takehome pay of about $2,000 a month) as a researcher at Caltech out of school, consolidated my loans with Sallie Mae, and began making regular payments of almost $400 a month. I took a night job as a waiter, but keeping to a budget proved difficult, exacerbated by expenses related to a minor car accident and money I had spent trying to develop an invention since graduate school. I left Caltech in the summer of 2001 hoping to secure a higher paying position in the defense industry. Unfortunately, the economy after September 11th left me unemployed/underemployed for more than a year.

In December 2001, I requested a hardship forbearance, but Sallie Mae turned me down and put my loans into default. I tried repeatedly to negotiate a reasonable payment solution with Edfund, the guarantor, but they offered me no solution but to begin repaying on what had exploded to $80,000 by spring of 2003. I spent the next two years dealing with all manner of collection companies to negotiate a solution I could realistically afford, but by 2005, what had started as a $38,000 headache had become a $100,000 nightmare.

There is no doubt that my decisions after graduation contributed to my financial distress. I could have made wiser decisions about where to work out of college, and placed more emphasis on pay rather than other factors. I should have never left my job at Caltech without a solid position to go to. The fact that by 2002, I was working in a kitchen 90 hours per week for less than minimum wage was on account of my actions, and mine alone.

However, the explosion of my debt from headache to insurmountable proportions had much more to do with the predatory environment that gives the industry a perverse incentive to default student loans. Like most borrowers, I didn’t realize until well after graduation that federal student loans were the only loans in the nation that are largely non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, have no statutes of limitations, and can't be refinanced after consolidation. Nor do they realize that borrowers can have their wages, Social Security, and disability income taken without a court order, for example. Lenders are largely unwilling to negotiate with distressed borrowers, and act in a predatory fashion.

Had there been standard consumer protections in place to motivate the lending system (Department of Education included) to avoid default, I am certain that my forbearance would have been granted, and today I would likely be nearing payoff of my loans.

The systematic removal of standard consumer protections from student loans gave rise to a predatory guaranty and collection industry that, armed with the strongest and most ruthless collection powers ever allowed, proceeded to extract massive revenue from misfortunate borrowers. Many would consider this a success in government-business partnerships, given the profits for the lenders and the protection of the U.S. taxpayer. But the resulting system gave all parties involved an interest in a high default rate (there is some debate about the federal government’s fiscal incentive, but for all other parties, there is no debate), rewarding the system for providing horrible loan administration, confusing the borrowers, providing them with ridiculously bad, incomplete, misleading, and even dishonest information. Some lenders were even caught falsifying documents, and defaulting loans without ever attempting to collect on the debt.

The human cost of this system has been shameful. Millions of citizens have been strong-armed into either repaying several times more than they originally borrowed or being effectively relegated to second class citizens. Many have literally fled the country as a result, or even worse. Finally and importantly, the system has caused an inflationary spiral in tuition and other costs charged by our nation's colleges and universities. This affects everyone who attends college and their families -- borrowers and non borrowers alike.

Q. There are a lot of people who tend to think that the troubled borrowers whom your group represents have brought their problems on themselves. To what extent is that fair, and to the extent it's not, why not?

A. Personal responsibility in assuming and repaying debt is always important, as with any other type of lending system. However, this principle of personal responsibility has been used as a cover for corporate and governmental irresponsibility and predation for far too long. The disastrous effect this has had on millions of individual citizens, and for the public interest generally, is now becoming evident, and no amount of spin, personal attacks against borrowers, etc., can change the incontrovertible facts, and the logical conclusions that must be drawn from them.

One example: in the 1970's, the industry used anecdotal stories of students graduating college and then promptly filing for bankruptcy to convince Congress to restrict, and then ultimately remove, bankruptcy protections. This was a successful trick (for lack of a better word) that appealed to emotion rather than reason. In hindsight, it turns out that in fact, far less than 1 percent of federally guaranteed student loans were discharged through bankruptcy when they were treated as all other loans in the country.

Q. What are the two or three biggest problems with our current system of financing college enrollment for students and families, in your view?

A. There is only one core problem: The removal of standard consumer protections (such as bankruptcy rights, statutes of limitations, refinancing rights, and other free market protections) from the student loan system. This has caused other problems:

1. This removal had caused predatory behavior by the lending and collection industry.

2. The system has also demotivated the Department of Education. Because it has no financial interest in whether or not students default (arguably, it may be actually making, not losing, money from defaulted loans), it doesn't act in a way to ensure that students don't default. So, the Department no longer has an incentive to pressure universities to keep their costs low, their quality high, and the time in attendance low, and we all know the results. ED/lenders/universities can feebly point to penalties against lenders and schools for high default rates as sufficent incentive for them to want to avoid defaults, but it is well-known that this "cohort" default metric is very easily manipulated -- even under the new definition -- and is really a paper tiger. They would really would do better to be honest and admit it. The American public will greatly appreciate -- and is capable of handling -- candor, forthrightness, and complete/accurate information from the department, as opposed to the misinformation, disinformation, and lack of information that has come to be a hallmark of the Federal Student Aid office.

3. The system has also enabled the colleges to raise their tuition and other fees at double the rate of inflation for over 30 years now, which only exacerbates the problem for the borrowers, and extends it to affecting everyone who attends college -- non-borrowers and borrowers alike.

Q. The student loan industry has been very much on the defensive in the last couple of years, first from New York's attorney general and now from the Obama administration. I had more or less assumed that you'd be a cheerleader for the White House plan to end the lender-based guaranteed student loan program, given your experiences, but I've seen comments from you suggesting otherwise. What don't you like about the move to 100 percent direct lending?

A. I take no strong position on this debate. Any systems architect would be compelled to admit that it is more efficient, structurally. But whether it is a direct- or private-lender based system, the lack of consumer protections only ensures that the future system will be wrongly motivated, and the problems that arise from that will be perpetuated and enlarged. Private companies will likely be both servicing and collecting on student loans under the proposed system. This could -- and likely will -- sustain the same perverse incentives to default loans. In the absence of other revenue that they formerly had under the FFEL system (origination fees, interest, and subsidies), this incentive could even be increased, without strong and clear instruments in the contract language that guard against it.

Q. What should be done to improve the student loan system?

A. It’s simple. In the public interest, Congress should act decisively to return standard consumer protections to student loans, and also to terminate some of the more debilitating collection powers, such as state license suspension and seizing the Social Security income of senior citizens (for example).

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Comments on 'The Student Loan Scam'

  • join the rest of the world
  • Posted by conor king at Tertiary education consultant, Australia on May 5, 2009 at 6:30am EDT
  • it is interesting to observe that those caught in a system are often very unable to look to a solution that is distinctly different.  Hence in this article the argument is for better more reasonable consumer protections in what would remain a standard loan arrangement.  With Governments around the world using income contingent loans to support student fees and student income support why is it that the USA cannot even consider the concept in its discussions?

    Australian, English, Dutch, New Zealand students do not like their student debts but they know repayment is tied to capacity to pay and is back to the Government.

  • College complicity ?
  • Posted by Ken D. on May 5, 2009 at 7:00am EDT
  • -
    A common heuristic holds that debt in excess of the expected first year salary is dangerous. Yet many schools and universities, even some quite distinguished ones, routinely encourage students to exceed this level of indebtedness, especially at the graduate level, while saying not a word about the absence of bankruptcy protections and the potential miseries these students may later face if, for example, they happen to later become unemployed or seriously ill through no fault of their own.

    Until reasonable bankruptcy protections are restored, schools need to start doing much more to make their students aware of the terrible downside risks they are assuming when they incur these debts.

  • Posted by bystander on May 5, 2009 at 7:00am EDT
  • I am sad to see young people graduate with large debts. I think they may be legally able to sign for these amounts (over age 18) but their judgment is not so good as to paying those amounts back. They also tend to get over their heads with the credit cards they receive, often without asking, in the mail. If this fellow borrowed $38K and now owes $100K, it sounds like he was dealing with Tony Soprano. Is he entirely sure he wasn't?

  • Brought problems on themselves?
  • Posted by Mac Wildstar on May 5, 2009 at 7:00am EDT
  • When I first read this article, I was offended by the second question. Then I realized just what was being said.

    Alan's book is a good start, to learn what has happened to students. He clearly explains how the US Congress has systematically removed all consumer protections on student loans, which has resulted in the most predatory lending scam in American History and how this is victimizing too many people in too many generations.

    What Alan's book does NOT show, and in reference to the comments of the second question of this article that seems to suggest that many people in the real world think that these students caused their own problems, is that the decade prior to the period that Alan's book covers (1992 to present), was a time of total chaos that laid the foundations for the actions that congress took which resulted in the history that Alan describes in his book.

    Congress knew it failed to uphold the requirements of the Higher Education Assistance Act during the 1980's and the result was many students were victimized by predatory schools which left them with worthless educations and bills they could not pay. This was made clear in US Senate report 102-58, along with other such reports which were compiled during the late 1980s and which resulted in various reforms being implemented between 1990 and 1996.

    Yet congress did nothing to help the very people they acknowledged were victimized and left in perpetual debt with no way out of it. And it only got worse for these former students as congress continued to remove standard consumer protections for those and future students.

    Today many of these former students still live with huge debts over their heads, living a life of constant fear of having their current substandard situations made worse by the mafia like collections powers the congress created. Many of these former students are nearing retirement with nothing saved, because they have been forced to switch jobs often to avoid crippling garnishments, or because they cannot get relief from the debts which grow exponentially and are beyond any ones reasonable ability to gain control over. At best they will become a further burden on society as retirees due to the fact that the system made it impossible for them to be able to save for retirement.

    The problem here was caused by Congress, not the students. Congress has again failed and again the American people are not only asked to bail out the system, but are also being victimized by it as well.

    Only when consumer protections are fully restored, and this includes bankruptcy protections, will things improve for not only the students, but our nation as a whole. And until that happens, hundreds of thousands of students and former students will continue to be victimized by the most predatory lending scam in American history. A scam allowed and created in part, by the previous actions of the US congress.

  • How to avoid the author's fate
  • Posted by Carlos on May 5, 2009 at 8:00am EDT
  • 1. Don't quit your job, until you have another one.

    2. Live somewhere other than the 2nd most expensive area in the U.S. And an expensive private college.

    3. If you do NOT understand loan papers -- DO NOT SIGN. WALK AWAY.

    4. Do not listen to people who are not educated experts in their area. Someone cites a fact about law and finance -- do they have a law degree? An MBA?

    The Sallie Mae's of the world have really FUBAR'd their lives. Someone call Warren Buffett to get their heads on, straight.

  • The Problem is the high tuition and fees ....
  • Posted by Cato on May 5, 2009 at 8:45am EDT
  • Sorry, but this problem is essentially the result in the shift from scholarships to loans as a means of financing the increasingly high cost of (primarily) private colleges and universties. (Note the "victim" here went to very expensive USC instead of the University of California, arguably even more prestigious.)

    In the 1970s and early 1980s, there really was a significant problem with high profile student loan defaults and bankruptcies. It may not have been a large portion of student loans, but it was a huge public relations problem and, worse, made many banks reluctant to lend without the changes people are now decrying.

    The worst defaults were usually related to students who had (then relatively) large loan balances as a result of borrowings for a combination of private colleges and private graduate schools. Typical would be (an actual case I knew) a lawyer at a major Wall Street law firm who defaulted in 1984 on $38,000 principal debt (+additional interest) incurred to attend Harvard College and Harvard Law School.

    The colleges and universities were not willing to waive tuition or give scholarships for students who did not have the money to pay for these elite educations, the state governments, already subsidizing the various state colleges and universities were not willing to pay for these elite educations, and Congress, whose constituents were mostly not the graduates of these elite institutions, was not willing to pay for these elite educations through increased federal support.

    The only potential source, then, of funds for these investments in human capital through elite education, was private lending. And, private lenders made it abundantly clear that they would not continue lending to students, especially not at low subsidized rates in the ugly credit environment in the late 1970s with Carters' inflation, if the students racking up this debt could blithely default on it and wipe them out through a bankruptcy.

    Congress, of course, took the easy way out by making these loans non-dischargeable and all the other nasties we now find. That made everyone happy, for a while: students still go their loans, Congress didn't have to spend any more money on the loans, and the lenders were comfortable they would be repaid.

    This worked out reasonably well for a while, but, with loans readily available to students and parents, of course, tuition and fees continued to increase much faster than the rate of inflation. A private college education that cost $20,000 in the mid-1990s costs something like $50,000 today. As the costs increase faster than family incomes, and as more and more children vie for admission to the most expensive elite schools (with "need blind" admissions), the amount students and their families borrow increases vastly.

  • Student loan default rate
  • Posted by Jack Olson on May 5, 2009 at 8:45am EDT
  • The Wall Street Journal reported that the rate of default on student loans was 6.9% for 2007. The Dept. of Education's website includes a graph of "cohort default rate" which they define as "the percentage of borrowers who enter repayment in a fiscal year and default or meet other specified conditions by the end of the next fiscal year." They don't state what those other specified conditions are, which would certainly affect comparisons of statistics. But, by the Dept. of Ed's definition, cohort default rate reached a high of 22.4% in 1990 and was still over 10% by 1995, reaching a low of 4.5% in 2003. Either wiser borrowers or wiser lenders have reduced the default rate dramatically in the past fifteen years.

  • All true enough, but where to next?
  • Posted by finaidfollies on May 5, 2009 at 9:15am EDT
  • Alan Collinge makes some good points in his responses to IHE, and the above comments are well taken too.

    Mr. Collinge is correct to hammer on the basic point of consumer protection; colleges ARE complicit, shamefully so; borrowers must understand what they're getting into. Too many of them have been legally hoodwinked.

    Conor King's observation is that other countries have tied loan repayment to ability to pay, but this smacks a bit too much of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' for the US to ever embrace. Also, don't forget this was the original model for My Rich Uncle--it was a nonstarter in the marketplace, which led their management down a completely deranged path of alienation from its own industry, community, regulators, and even its customers.

    So this is progress, of a sort, when we've identified what's gone wrong. Yet Mr. Collinge, perhaps to concentrate focus on his main mission, punts on the question of DL vs FFELP. I respect his demurral, but would add COLLEGE COST as a root cause of this crisis.

    Undergrad institutions, listen up: take a page from the for-profits you so love to denigrate. Get your charges educated, and out the door, free of the lifestyle accoutrements and fancy architecture. Do it in three years instead of four; increase your enrollments through distance learning; make distance learning a required component for a fraction of all coursework.

    AND, means-test federal aid for institutions--don't give it to schools that have green to burn, give it to they many schools that need it badly and could use it wisely.

  • Student loan regulations
  • Posted by feudi , Financial Aidf Officer on May 5, 2009 at 9:15am EDT
  • Most readers of this blog know full well the cautionary tale of Alan Collinge. I wish him great success in selling his book. Perhaps he can make enough on his book to pay off, at least, the original debt of $38,000 with some reasonable additional payment accommodation from his lenders...the taxpayers of America. Let's not forget that this system was initially funded by our tax dollars and is set up as a self-funded revolving fund thereafter. Nonpayment means less loan funds for future borrowers so repayment is very, very important.

    I do agree with Mr. Collinge that student loans need much better consumer protections built into them. There should be no way that a loan of $38,000 can ever mushroom to $100,000, even in default. On the other side, let's not forget that before these draconian tactics were instituted, loan defaults were a big problem and some of the biggest offenders were people who later became doctors and lawyers who knew how to scam the system before Congress cracked down.

    There have to be major changes in the provision of student loans. Students need to know that they should NEVER, EVER borrow money that they do not really need. College life used to be a time of sacrifice for students. Today, students at even medium cost universities often expect private quarters with gourmet meal plans and fancy exercise rooms. These enhancements cost a lot of money and run up debt levels too high to repay for many new grads. I like the emphasis on education from the new Administration, but I am afraid that the loan program proposed by President Obama will result in yet another FANNIE MAE or FREDDIE MAC-type boondoggle with far too little oversight and regulation. We've seen where that business model can take us and it ain't pretty.

     

  • The Cause is Just
  • Posted by Chevino , Asst. Dean at Middlebury College on May 5, 2009 at 9:15am EDT
  • Compliments (and a donation) on doing the right thing. There are many rational comments on StudentLoanJustice's advocacy and effectiveness, but, other than our opining there's only one person on a mission that will come to fruition, hopefully, through exposing the "politics" of "education" in this country. The Obama Administration senses the injustice and first steps are being taken. Let's put the wall back, between, education and capitalism. It's there for a reason.

  • student loan scam
  • Posted by Jim on May 5, 2009 at 9:30am EDT
  • I would like to know why he borrowed so much money to begin with. Did he not go to school in California where education is state supported and almost free at community colleges? Did the author not have a choice of colleges to go to that he could have minimized his cost at the start of his career?

    Did he fund a lifestyle while going to college, or did his entire loan go to college tuition?

    I think that these types of items have to be part of the discussion.

    Colleges and universities can't restrict what students borrow, Students can borrow the maximum based on a schools cost of education which is way different than the actual direct cost a student pays. The less expensive the schoolis the less expensive the cost of education and therefore the less need to borrow.

    At my current school, students borrow to fund life styles, it is what they have been brought up to do, they all want the good life, and they do not want to sacrific. The students (like much of our nation) are 'entitled' to everything, and it seems a college education is becoming one of the entitlements.

    I for one wish this author the best, but he is personally responsible for the choices he made and that he will make, blaming a system does not make any sense.

    It would be interesting to see how he spent his money, maybe in his book he details exactly how he spent his loans.

  • Another story
  • Posted by Dr. Smith on May 5, 2009 at 9:30am EDT
  • I take full responsibility for not understanding the financial mess I was getting myself into. I was a first generation college student with no mentors, family or friends to advise me. The bottom line of my financial mess is that I chose to be an Education major, and continue to work in the education industry. I attended public higher education. I accepted the full student loans that they offered me from Bachelor's degree, Master's and Doctorate. Not understanding that I would never earn a salary in the Education field that could repay the loans I accumulated. By the time I graduated with a Doctorate in Education from a state university, I had accumulated $93,000 in student loans.

    Although I have never defaulted, I have taken several years over my career of putting my loans in foreberence. and thus, now my principle is well over $100,000 at the age of 47. I will likely not be able to pay this amount back by the time I retire. I have never owned my own home, and can not qualify to purchase one with my student loan debt. I do not have other credit card debt or misc. debt. Yet, I can never get ahead, because as my salary increases, my monthly obligations for my student loans increases. My current montly student loan obligation is approx. $1,500. Which is approx. 40% of my montly salary.

    My only mistake was not understanding that I was accumulating a student loan debt of a medical doctor and could never pay it back on the salary of a doctor of education.

    I am not looking for an easy out. I do not expect full forgiveness of my loans. After all, I did pay for a doctorate, and now earn some small priviledges for having a doctorate. Although I take full responsibility for putting myself in this mess, if there were an "escape hatch" I would have to think very seriously about taking advantage of it. Becuase I will likely never be able to repay the full student loan in my lifetime, it would seem fair to give me a level of forgiveness that would lower my principle and allow me to make smaller monthly payments, and not penalize me from ever owning a home because of this student loan debt.

  • not just tuition
  • Posted by random thougths on May 5, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • Cato, tuition is not the only factor in high debt levels, and maybe not the primary factor. Look at debt levels for graduates of public universities. There are substantial lifestyle issues as well. Many students use educational loans to buy cars, spring break trips, fancy electronics, clothes, etc. It is easy, and incorrect, to assume that these students who are borrowing are also living as frugally as some of us may have done.

    An area newspaper recently mentioned the case of a junior with $45,000 in loans, as evidence of college costs run amok. The student attended at a public university with tuition of just over $5,000 a year (total tuition, fees, room and board of less than $14,000). When asked, the reporter conceded that the student had changed majors and was (as I recall) a fourth-year junior. But $11,000 a year to attend a school that costs $14,000? This was not a student from a desperately poor family. True college costs were not the primary issue here.

  • Posted on May 5, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • Okay, I was with the author up to the point where he quit his job without another one lined up. As someone who once did the same idiotic thing, I have to say that he brought some of the trouble upon himself here (just as I did). I do believe we need to treat student loans more like any other debt in terms of regulation and consumer protections, and that people need to learn to really look at the cost/benefit ratio of taking out huge loans. I took out loans to attend a private out-of-state graduate school, when my local state university had a similar program. I don't necessarily regret my decision, but I sincerely wish that someone (an advisor, career counselor or loan officer) had pointed out to me exactly how long it would take to pay the loan and what my projected salary was going to be for the first years of my career. Even with a fellowship, I needed the loans for living expenses in a very pricey major city. I will be the first to admit that I wasn't too smart about money when I was 21 and signing for those loans, and I take full responsibility for having put my name on the dotted line and promised to repay them (which I'm doing, a tiny bit at a time). In retrospect I just really wish there had been some kind of mechanism to help me evaluate whether taking out loans for the pricier out-of-state program was worth it, and to help me analyze how the decision to take out loans in 2001 would impact my ability to buy a car in 2005, and a house in 2009.

  • Bottom line
  • Posted by Carlos on May 5, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • You're signing for the loan -- you are responsible. Not your college.

    Think before you sign, any loan document. Consult with others. Take time before you sign.

  • Fund the publics
  • Posted by Proud SUNY alum on May 5, 2009 at 10:15am EDT
  • Excellent post Cato. I think you also hit another sore spot for proponents of the public higher education system as well as low-cost access to higher education. It has occurred to me that we are using literally hundreds of billions a year to subsidize both public and private colleges and universities while even low-income students at public colleges--which are already funded in large part by state tax revenue--are still borrowing to pay for their education. If we took but a fraction of the loan subsidies, grants and scholarships that are used by students attending private colleges, every low-income student could receive a free 4-year degree at a public college--provided they meet minimum SAP requirements of course.

    True, this proposal might reduce college choice, but who could argue that we need to re-evaluate our funding priorities as average loan debt continues to climb even as we invest record levels of taxpayer dollars into subsidizing higher education. Perhaps it's time we ask why the taxpayer is subsidizing the private sector--whether the private sector in question be educating students or manufacturing cars. But most importantly, could we better use the federal and state funds at our disposal to encourage low-cost public education or to continue to under-fund both the private and public sectors reulting in unmanagable student loan debt for this and future generations of students.

  • See the Forest
  • Posted by Jack on May 5, 2009 at 10:15am EDT
  • Bankruptcy protection for federal education loans would not be necessary if the federal education loan programs maintained the strict limitations of the 80's and before. PLUS loans, as some may recall, were limited to $4,000. There were no unsubsidized Stafford loans "for all." Without the unprecedented expansion in these programs, colleges would have been forced to limit their price increases over the last 20 years. Families continue to refuse to consider viable alternatives to the costly private resorts with schools attached. The return on investment in a four-year college degree has been steadily declining since 1990. The illusion that high-cost private resident college education is somehow a "passport" to social and economic success is just that...an illusion. Higher education (especially private), at any cost, has been sold to the general public as the only road to survival, let alone success. Where there is demand, there will be supply. Regrettably, the higher education industry has been more than happy to oblige.

  • Student loan industry
  • Posted by mgc on May 5, 2009 at 10:15am EDT
  • Financing higher education has become so complicated and expensive that expectations and enrollment must be reevaluated. Is it needed and beneficial to all? States enjoy passing the blame for higher education cost on to schools while cutting support at an increasing rate. Oh, by the way, state scholarship going to students and families regarless of need, gets political empowerment and most of all, votes. Now the climate is such that loans are essential and thanks to certain National Leaders positioning themselves politically, private loan are no longer readily available nor affordableto those who least can afford college cost. If you think Direct Lending is the answer, you are dead wrong. The benefits will not improve. Loan limits are nowhere near what is needed and will not increase in the immediate future. Those who collect these loans will be far less concerned about the borrower since the lender incentives have been removed. Default rates will be a non issue in the Direct Lending Program, and we must not forget who has been making private loans affordable and accessable for borrowers. Those days are gone!

    The future of students requiring financial support is bleak. Enhance Pell Grants reaches such a small number of students with nominal benefits in comparison to the total cost, its not worth mentioning, but it sure sounds good politically.

  • Declines in cohort default rate
  • Posted by Mark Kantrowitz , Publisher at FinAid.org and FastWeb.com on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • Jack Olson's attribution of declines in the cohort default rate to "wiser borrowers or wiser lenders" is not entirely accurate. While improvements in lender default aversion activities and in school exit and entrance counseling may have contributed to decreases in the cohort default rate, there are also other factors that had a greater responsibility for the decreases:

    • The definition of a default changed from 120 days to 180 days in 1986 and from 180 days to 270 days in 1998. Since the two-year window for calculating the cohort default rate remained unchanged, this reduced the number of defaults in the cohort default rate calculation.
    • Congress removed many colleges, especially 2-year institutions, from eligibility for federal student aid by cutting the maximum allowable cohort default rate from 35% in FY1991 and FY1992 to 30% in FY1993 and 25% starting in FY1994. This reduced the average default rate of the eligible colleges.
    • Interest rates on federal education loans have decreased more or less until 2004-05. Before 1992 the rates were relatively higher fixed rates. In 1992-93 the rates changed to variable rates that were lower than the previous fixed rates. They fluctuated up and down by a percent or two until 2001-02, when interest rates began a steady decrease in the aftermath of 9/11. Interest rates affect the cost of the loan and have an impact on default rates. With the recent relative increases in interest rates due to the switch to fixed rates, the increase in default rates is not unexpected, but will likely stabilize.
    • The early repayment status loophole altered consolidation patterns in 2005 and may have had an impact on the likelihood of default (e.g., borrowers who consolidated lost their 6 month grace period) and in the calculation of the cohort default rate (e.g., shifting the start of repayment from the beginning of a fiscal year to the end of a fiscal year, altering the length of the effective window during which defaults can occur).
    • Improvements in graduation rates and job placement rates when the economy was strong also likely had an impact, and the recession is probably responsible in part for the current increase in default rates.

    Additional details on cohort default rates can be seen at www.finaid.org/loans/cohortdefaultrates.phtml.

    Mark Kantrowitz
    Publisher of FinAid.org and FastWeb.com

  • Posted by Matthew , Student loans on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • Brilliant move with the leaving the job @ Cal tech....The loans are repayable..the should not be dischargeable unless one dies or a serious medical condition..

    If you would have read the prommissary note ,when you took out the loan..but did not, it states the rules of the game..period...

    You cried because you were had to work in food service @ 80 hours a week..boo hoo..I was a cook for over 20 years & worked my up to chef w/o an expensive school..& that was not what I went to school for....& worked more hours in year than you ever though of...

    I paid back my loans w/o complaining (because they were my loans)..I have 4 kids in school & they will repay their loans without question...

    Grow up..stop crying..get a goal & this time, stick with it...

  • A systemic disaster looming...
  • Posted by Atana , prof on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • The conditions M. Collinge refers to are distressingly common. And within academe it's a condition which will be eventually destructive to it's mission of teaching. Many profs are struggling paying inflated student loan tolls, a condition only made worse with the deferments and etc attendant to advanced degrees. And god help the adjuncts because our system won't. Eventually the predatory aspects of these loans will wreck the base upon which the whole system rests. Essentially becoming a prof is almost a fools game, too much debt and no way out. And what message does that send to students? Already at the PS level these predatory loans are having an effect, as is born out by the NEA's article "My debt My Life" which expressed real concern about future recruitment of teachers if the edudebt industry is not restrained.
    And the lack of consumer protections for these loans is disasterous for everyone except the loan companies. There is some 560 billion of student debt in this country and when that bubble bursts and it will, it could herald a systemic collapse equivalent or worse than the mortgage mess. That is why it is so essential to restore the consumer to which M. Collinge refers. Without these, as the economy continues to decline many debtors will be unable to pay the inflated tolls levied by these overtly predatory companies-no matter what excessive pressures these companies can apply. (Which are excessive, abusive and unreal. They can do things a police officer could never touch). At least with legal rights restored the student loan debtors will be able to make reasonable accomodations in an increasingly impossible situation.

    And the detrimental effect of the student loan situation is one of the major factors bearing so heavily on the decline of the middle classes. As has been made very evident by the lectures of Dr. Warren and others. So why then have our leaders allowed such abuses to continue? Expecially when they posture so much about the fate of the middle classes...

  • Posted by Cato on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • Jim makes excellent points: it was certainly possible to obtain both graduate and masters' degrees, even in aerospace engineering, in California in the 1990s without racking up $38,000 in debt. Two years in a community college, living at home, should have been virtually free, except for books. Two years at one of the state universities in the mid-1990s would have cost a little over $3,300 plus books and living expenses, and the University of California about $7,600 plus books and living expenses. Graduate school costs at the state universities and UC were a little more. But still, that's a lot less than the cost of 5-6 years at Southern Cal!

    Financial aid is a funny business -- it never covers the full cost of attending, even when it says it does, and even with scholarships, it always includes large amounts of loans these days.

    When I was an undergraduate and graduate student in the 1960s and 1970s, most financial aid was in the form of scholarships or work-study type arrangements, and most graduate students had forms of assistance (teaching assistantships, scholarships, research or exam reading jobs) that made them essentially costless including living expenses for talented students. When I was in law school after my PhD program, many of my fellow students took the then easily available $5,000 per year loans to finance their lifestyles. With the GI Bill and working some 30 hours a week, I graduated with virtually no debt. It's about choices.

    I have more emphathy for Dr. Smith - who is a first generation college attender and went to state schools. Yet, didn't the financial aid counsellors explain these documents to you? Didn't you read them? Did you consider the various programs that do exist which provide varying amounts of loan forgiveness? Did you consider one of the military service programs that would have provided either money in college (ROTC) or for post-service college money?

    We'd all have liked to have gone to (say) Williams or Yale as undergraduates and Harvard as graduate students, but we can't all afford it. If you can get in, and can't afford it, then you either turn it down to go somewhere you can afford, or you take a risk in taking on significant debt. If you choose to take on the debt, then you live with it.

  • Buyer Beware
  • Posted by 10+ Year Fin Aid Admin on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • After having spent 10 plus years so far as a financial aid administrator, I find this debate coming close to the edge of not taking responsibility for one's action even though the author says he is fully responsible and admits to his shortcomings. The only difference is it is a backhanded admission of guilt and he wants the public to pay for his shortcomings.

    There are numerous protections and safeguards in student loans and the industry as a whole. Like every industry, bad apples do get into the basket every now and then but they cannot stay hidden forever. Capitalism works and the free markets will eventually find these bad apples and remove them. Unfortunately, some are hurt in the process, but that is inevitable with any system.

    Students must complete a Student Loan Entrance Counseling Session before any disbursements of student loans can be made. In these Entrance Counseling Sessions, students are given the Borrower's Rights and Responsibilities along with the ins and outs of student loans. This includes the fact that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and that wages, etc can be garnished if a student goes into default. These sessions must strictly spell out what happens when a student goes into default. Everything is presented to the students, whether they actually take the time to review it carefully and thorougly is up to them.

    Financial aid administrators nor the lenders should have to hold these student's hands. They are now in college and need to start taking on responsibility for themselves. I did as I am a first generation college graduate in my family from a private liberal arts college and graduated cum laude with $48,000 in student loan debt. I now have my MBA in finance that was paid for by my employer, thankfully. I knew what I was going to have to borrow and there were no stones left unturn before I signed my Master Promissory Note and I knew what I was signing and getting myself into. Our cultural today has enabled students to think they are owed everything and that they do not have to think for themselves or handle their own affairs. I see it everyday students coming into my office thinking and saying their parents will handle or the government will take care of it for them. They have no sense of personal responsibility.

    As for coner king, all federal student loans have what is known as an Income Contingent Repayment Option that is discussed and gone over in the Student Loan Exit Counseling Session that students are required to attend by law before they separate from the univeristy or college because of graduation or withdrawal.

  • Posted by Vanessa on May 5, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • My original debt was similar to the author's after getting my PhD. Now, after 13 years, it has mushroomed to over 120,000 dollars. I had to go into bankruptcy in 2000 after accumulating enormous medical debt - not being able to afford decent medical insurance (only limited catastrophic.) But of course my student loans could not be included. My subsequent medical situation and a sick child prevented me from working fulltime and making enough money to get this debt down at all. Voila! I now can not own anything substantial or depend on social security for any kind of retirement because I know it will all be taken away from me to pay this debt. I hope congress will do something about this situation for all students who try to do the right thing but....

  • Posted by collegeloanconsultant on May 5, 2009 at 11:00am EDT
  • I disagree that colleges bear no responsibility along with borrowers. Colleges are required to certify students for loans. This should mean more than the fact that they have a warm body accepted into their program. If a college says that a student can take out $40,000 per year for a degree in art, then they should be prepared to pay that loan when the student can't after successfully getting a degree.

  • Hard to understand this situation
  • Posted by Sk on May 5, 2009 at 11:15am EDT
  • There may be an argument here, but there are so many glossed over details, its impossible to follow what actually happened.

    What does it mean for 38K in debt (in 1999) to 'explode' to 80K in 2003 (particularly when you are paying 400$ a month)? Does it mean 'I borrowed more money'?

    How does 80K debt in 2003 become 100K debt in 2005? Did he borrow more money?

    What was the interest rate on the loans? What was tuition? Did he have teaching/research assistanceships (i.e. did he even pay tuition?), and the loans went to consumer goods?

    What did he do with the money he borrowed? I was in college and graduate school for a long time. I lived in crappy apartments, wore crappy clothes, and drove a crappy car. Did he do the same thing, or did he spend loan money on stuff?

    He may or may not have done so. He may or may not be victim to predatory lenders. But without more information, its simply impossible to determine exactly what happened.

     

    Sk

  • Numbers don't make sense
  • Posted by Jamie on May 5, 2009 at 11:15am EDT
  • I loan does not go from <$38,000 in Summer 2001 to $80,000 in Spring 2003, it is just not possible. Unless there are private loans involved with ridiculous interest rates, then he is not being truthful. Even if he has all unsubsidized loans and did not make a payment from the moment he started school until the Spring 2003, he is still not going to get to $80,000 from $38,000 (given the $400 loan payment he quoted this is not the case).

  • Not That Complicated
  • Posted by Ed McKinley on May 5, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • This is really not that complicated. Also I fail to see the real relavence in belabouring the reasons why the author, or others, defaulted on their loans. The fact that the real default rate, which according to the inspector general, is closer to the 30% mark is statistically very significant. Moreover, the fact that in spite of this figure lenders continue to covet this business should raise some eyebrows as well. In addition to the defaults, I am not aware of any accurate figures to reflect the numbers of borrowers that have been forced to take consolidation loans that seriously inflate the length of payment and therefore the amount paid over the life of the loan. I would dare to guess that the number of borrowers able to pay their loans in the minimal time allotted and the lowest amount possible is well under half.
    Reasons for default are many I am sure. These range from unemployment, underemployment, illness, family tragedy and yes, sometimes poor personal choice. Let's not forget that their have been documented cases of loan servicers being complicit in hastening defaults without even making a good faith collection effort.
    But, in time, many of these borrowers right themselves and return to the table to resolve their debt.
    In my own case, I found most debtors more than willing to negotiate manageable payment terms. This allowed outstanding debts to receive meaninful attention and resolution.
    In the case of student loans, however, this has been far from the case. Every single option that has been made available to me has been out of my reach. I have offered, on numerous occassions to send real money to reduce my debt. The terms that are offered are either beyond my means or would cause me to agree to a debt structure that no reasonable person would willingly agree to.
    No reasonable person would agree to regular payments on a debt that would result in continued growth of that debt at a rate three to five times what they currently owed.
    It is simply not a matter of not wanting to pay. It is a matter of making it impossible to pay. So what happens? Well, either you give up, or you fight back.
    Exploding the balance of a defaulted loan will never be a viable solution to resolving it. If people see no end in sight, they will usually just give up.
    So, you may ask, why do the lenders do this? Well from the best I can figure, it is because they can. It is extremely profitable to keep someone on the hook for a loan they can never fully repay for an indefinite period of time. Through compound interest, rediculous penalties, federal guaranties, garnishment of pay and tax returns and many other tools it has become favorable practice to, whenever possible, make borrowers pay their debt many times over.
    So, don't talk to me about poor personal choices and lavish lifestyles. Walk a mile in my shoes and then you tell me that this system is fair and equitable and that all I needed to do was better educate myself prior to signing my name.
    When I decided to go to school for social work I had a vision in mind. I was told that financing my education was the best option and that it was good debt. "Don't worry, you can buy tomorrows promises with todays dollars."
    Contrary to what some in this discussion choose to believe, I was never informed of the dire consequences that awaited me if my vision did not go exactly according to plan and nothing in my loan documents spelled it out clearly. To be honest, if I had been, this is America, and I'm not sure I would have actually beleived it.
    So let the naysayers climb down off their mighty horses and come on down here with the rest of us and take an honest look at this issue. I really don't care if someone defaulted because they were drunk for 5 years and forgot to pay. The reality is that when they sober up and come to the table to atone, let's make it possible for them to do so, instead of turning them into an unending stream of unearned income.

  • Hmmmm will we start limiting borrowing to certain programs????
  • Posted by Cato on May 5, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • collgeloanconsultant makes a very interesting and important point: many of the people who take on large debt for both undergraduate and graduate degrees are pursuing degrees that are highly unlikely to lead to careers that would enable the borrowers to repay the loans. Making the schools pay if the student defaults (could the school then revoke the degrees?) might lead to colleges certifying student borrowers differently based on their prospective, and actual, majors.

    Of course, it would be highly unpopular to say to prospective freshman Susy or Jimmy something like: "well, if you major in engineering or biology or accounting or nursing, we can let you borrow '$X' but if you want to major in English or sociology or ethnic/feminist studies, you can only borrow '$1/4X'. And, if you start out as a physics major, with a borrowing limit of '$X', but after 2 years change your major to sociology, you won't be able to borrow any more money at all because you will have already borrowed more than would would allow you to borrow as a sociology major."

    The worst howls, of course, would come from the faculties who teach subjects that typically do not lead to high-paying careers, but are full of students pursuing the major anyway, often as refugees from more difficult majors. The hit to their full time equivalents if their only majors were students whose parents could afford to let Susy or Jimmy spend four years finding themselves, would be tremendous. They would become little more than service departments offering a few general education classes in many colleges.

    I think this would be sad, because I'm a big supporter of liberal arts study (with undergraduate and graduate work in history and economics), but I think that when someone other than the student is paying for his or her education, the person or entity that's lending money for the studies has a right to insist that the student pursue a program reasonably calculated to enable them to pay the loan back. Of course, the student has a choice: studies that will make repayment likely, or don't take the money.

  • Posted by Death of a Doctorate on May 5, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • I too will carry my debt to my grave. Recongnized for my scholarly contributions I was asked by my department to consider pursuing my doctorate in public administration with the opportunity of receiving a federal fellowship (which I cannot locate now). Horror happens at the doctoral level and I certainly was not spared by the male dominated department known for its sexist and racist views. Although my experience led to a miscarriage I still continued to pursue my degree with excellent results. In the end the many hoops I was forced through, hurdles I had to jump resulted in an investigation that proved I was treated differently - discriminated against - verified by the University's own EOC office. However when attempting to take legal actions I could find no one to defend me. I took my cause to the Federal EOC and was told I waited too long as a result of listening to the University's assurances I would be taken care of. Indeed, I was told I would have to reapply to my program and retake core courses I had excelled in - more hoops to show me who was in control. In order to keep my fellowship through the 4 years of study at the doctorate level I could not work. The fellowship did not meet our expenses (my husband worked as a social worker - no money there) and I took out loans. I completed all coursework and much of my research but was not allowed to move to the dissertation phase. I met with the Dean of the College who was shocked at how the University had failed me as a student but advised I not return to my department - "They will kill you (make my life a living hell) for the investigation you initiated." I left the university with a debt and no degree to show for it - not because I was not capable but because I was led to believe there was equality in education. At one time I was advised that if I could prove I was wronged my loans would be forgiven - I do not think that person works at teh Dept. of Education anymore - she had a heart. I have told my story and have found many others who have been robbed of their educational goals. I finally made peace through the aide of a Native American healer and now assist students in gaining their education carefully advising them on student loans. I am a pauper in the eyes of some but I am rich in the work I do in assisting students locate scholarships to pay for their education. Fortunately I have my home but in light of our economy - nothing is certain. I chuckle thinking back to my high school years and my role in the play "You can't take it with you." True - you can't take material things with you but my debt will go with me to my grave - at least that is what the new employee at the Dept. of Ed. told me on my most recent inquiry about my loan.

  • Hard cases make bad law
  • Posted by Cato on May 5, 2009 at 12:45pm EDT
  • DeathofaDoctorate - your situation is deplorable on the facts you have posited, but as the law maxim goes Hard Cases Make Bad Law -- which means that we should not make rules of general applicability on the basis of (relatively) isolated examples of bad faith behavior and sympathetic victims. In short, your situation does not reflect the vast majority of the people who get in over their heads in student loan debt. Clearly, if the facts are as you state, there ought to be some sort of equitable remedy to deal with it.

    However, the earlier you would have benefited from the advice you are now giving others - not to take on debt for lifestyle - do you mean to say that with your academic expenses covered by a fellowship, you literally could not get by on your husband's salary as a social worker? Did he consider another job? Think of all of the women who worked at 2 jobs to put their husbands through graduate, medical or law school back in the day. Surely, your husband could have done the same.

    You were fortunate in that your demonstrated ability made a fellowship available. Good for you! When I was an undergraduate, and most financial aid was scholarship/grant rather than loans, fewer students received aid, but the poor students who did receive financial aid were typically more capable than the average paying student, and they typically received enough aid (with work) to make ends meet. Others with financial need went to (essentially free) community colleges and then on to inexpensive state colleges.

    Perhaps we'd be better off going back to that model, with everyone except the truly outstanding among those with financial need starting off at community colleges.

  • Help is on the way!
  • Posted by Rachel on May 5, 2009 at 12:45pm EDT
  • In 2007, Congress enacted the College Cost Reduction and Access Act, which establishes a new repayment plan based on salary and family size and a public service loan forgiveness program. Do a search for it on the Net and check out this website: http://www.ibrinfo.org/ It seems like one of these programs could help many borrowers at some point in their repayment of federal student loans.

    Spread the word!

  • Another resource on the College Cost Reducation Act of 2007
  • Posted by Rachel on May 5, 2009 at 12:45pm EDT
  • http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml

  • What World?
  • Posted by Dr. F. Gump on May 5, 2009 at 3:30pm EDT
  • Cato, In what world did you study for your undergraduate? At the state college where many of us first-generation students from low-income families attended, loans were the norm. Sure my roommates and I (four people to a student hovel) did receive some incidental books or equipment scholarships, but most of our aid was loans and student worker (minimum wage) jobs on campus.

    One idiot professor of economics (back in the 70s) encouraged students to load up on credit card debt, because he reasoned, that with inflation the loans would be paid off with inflated dollars. Capitalism and greed = the sign of satan?

    Ever hear of students skipping summer orientation (I already know everything about college from my older sister)? Hell let's just all join the legions of evil and encourage under-prepared poor students to embark upon college studies with no future plans. Pump up that bubble brothers and sisters, hell ain't half full.

  • Cato makes a point; you are your best friend
  • Posted by Carlos on May 5, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • Pie-in-the-sky ideas like "we should be like [insert country] and give free college educations to everyone" are just ridiculous. Most of those countries are so class-concious, the tenured deadwood that make such claims would be be car mechanics like their daddies.

    You want to add another thesis or dissertation about Shakespere to the existing pile of 30,000 (29,850 of which have never been read outside the originating institution)? Sure -- on YOUR dime and labor, friend. Remember than when you are grading freshman comp papers at 1 a.m. and your brain is half-dead.

    There are options. My nieces are going to community college and living at home -- not perfect, but they do NOT owe a dime.

    How about a major that actually pays well? Not environmental complaining or join-the-masses criminal justice -- health care, business, engineering? Look at this gal from Ohio who did not whine and just did her job --

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15land.html?scp=2&sq=tiffany%20newark&st=cse

    At bottom -- there are too many college, chasing too few students. Per Vedder (Ohio U.), only "easy money" loans make this insanity possible, by boosting small colleges. And Mr. Obama goes along for the faculty unions.

    Young folks, do not be suckered by the college marketing hype. Think before you sign -- carefully. Make the decision the one that you want and can live with. Because you will live with it, a very long time. Remember -- there are many options -- look at all of them.

  • A modest proposal.
  • Posted by Blind Man , FAO on May 5, 2009 at 5:30pm EDT
  • FAO's have previously asked the Federal Dept of Education on several occasions for the authority under the law to NOT make loans to students under certain limited cases such as too much current debt, lifestyle borrowing, borderline academic progress issues and other issues, and have been roundly rebuffed each time! We were told that we did not have the right to make those decisions for students!

    Further, many of us fought to have bankruptcy and other consumer provisions kept in law, but we lost that battle as well.

    Of course the Feds have no problem punishing colleges where the default rate has gotten out of control often for reasons which have nothing to do with the FA office itself after a student has left the college.

    For those who through misfortune have been unable to keep up with the increased loan payments due to credit costs, why not have an amnesty program?

    If it is good enough for the IRS who let the cheating rich and soulless corporations which have hid their profits in Swiss and Caymen Island bank accounts for years then it should be good enough for these former students. Heck, even Americorp could be used on an expanded basis for those who are still unemployed.

  • Some Typical Responses
  • Posted by Beatrice Wisely , Financial Aid at School on May 5, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • We see here again the typical responses of "responsibility", "stop crying/whining" etc. The problems with Student Loans are real - consumer protections have been stripped away. they have been stripped by politicians paid to do so by the private lenders.

    I do not agreee; however, with Mr. Collinge regarding the Obama proposal. I do see it as a beginning to returning those protections as the very corporations and lobbyists that pushed their removal will be gone. The pressure to make student loan debt the exception to the consumer protection rule will be gone.

    Nor am I surprised to see a Financial Aid director whining about his cushy bureaucrat job. Financial Aid Administrators and the NASFAA have been and remain complicit in this problem The Financial Aid Administrator is only concerned about revenue coming into the the University and maintaining off-line budgeting of his/her department through inducements and other profit motives provided by the private lenders. There are some reputable Aid directors out there - and most have moved to the direct program. However, as we saw from the corruption scandals of NASFAA members in 2007, many simply don't deserve trust or their positions.

  • Posted by Robyn on May 5, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • Thanks for the websites. I have mixed feelings about this situation. I owe over $170,000, have five degrees (only one from a public university), and work in education. My loan payments through Sallie Mae are just over $1,000 per month. They are consolidated on a thirty year term. I will pay over $350,000 if I make every payment here to the end. I had no trouble getting the loans, no trouble understanding the loans, no trouble with Sallie Mae. If I lose my job I expect to be able to defer my loans for a minimum of six months. I have been in deferment before, though my loans collected interest. Would I like them to disappear? Oh yes. Have they messed up my credit? No. I own a home, two cars, have way too much revolving credit debt and a credit score of 745. I make all payments on time, everytime, and have little money to spare (thus the use of revolving credit -- stupid, stupid, stupid). I have a crappy teaching job in a district that wants to cut teacher pay. Am I capable of more? Oh yes, but will need to move from the district in which I live, which apparently does not value my level of education or ability. So I don't know if I should feel sorry for the writer, or if I should tell him to buck up, take the steady job and pay the bills. I don't love my job, and would be in dire straits without it. It's the sacrifice I had to make in order to load up all those degrees.

  • Two Thoughts
  • Posted by Nikki , Student Services on May 5, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • As mentioned above, I have seen many students take out loans to finance a "lifestyle" while in college, choosing to not work and have quite a nice apartment and I believe close to $20,000 in additional loans over the course of a four year degree. (I think some of them are maxing out at around $5,000 per academic year). While these students attend Loan Entrance Counseling I'm not sure if they really "get" the loan payments when they get out of school and perhaps do not have that high paying job right away. If anything, I would like to see a little more regulation on the overage money available to students.

    On the other hand, my loans allowed me to get my credit started and actually allowed me to purchase my first home and car.

  • Another Thought
  • Posted by ThinkingofStudents on May 5, 2009 at 8:15pm EDT
  • I cringe when the students I supervise tell me that they have $100k in student loans, and it sometimes makes me wonder if schools should be more honest with students when they admit them regardless of ability to pay. The myth that a college education, regardless of major, will result in better job opportunities and higher income is partially to blame for this. I do believe that college is a great experience for most students, I do wish that employers would be less afraid of hiring recent college grads and I don't think that most students ever intend to default on their loans. Yet when a student is frightened about all of the debt they are taking on, the general response is that college costs are worth it because they will help students get better jobs later on. This is not necessarily true, and I now believe that there is a point where the benefits outweigh the costs. The worst thing that the loan crises causes is students dropping out with debt and no degree to cut their losses. I think that honesty with students in the admissions process is key, and I would encourage individuals at colleges to be frank with students and prospective students about the college's ability to meet their need.

  • Robyn: please stop
  • Posted by Carlos on May 5, 2009 at 9:45pm EDT
  • Robyn -- this young lady got very lucky and won a media psudo-lottery jackpot --

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15land.html?scp=2&sq=tiffany%20newark&st=cse

    IMHO: you have to stop spending. Today. Now. You've got too much debt. One problem, and you're in real trouble. Listen to Dave Ramsey. Pay off short-term debts.

    About the $170,000: think about the Peace Corps - wipes out $6,000/year. Can also lead to better-paying federal job.

    Focus on your job -- very important. The alternative is obvious and painful.

    LESSON: if the FinAid people gave a rip about kids, they'd have mandatory financial reviews at $25K, $50K, $75K, $100K. 

    It is just insane that young people can borrow this amount of money. But to do otherwise would require the FinAid people to care. That happens right after academia cares about outcomes.

  • Ode to a scholar
  • Posted by JB , MIDS on May 5, 2009 at 9:45pm EDT
  • I get the impression sometimes that there is a lot of nit picking and compartmentalizing in order to divert the attention away from the hard-core facts on the table. There is way too much honing in specifically on Mr. Collinge and and not nearly as much examination on in the issue in the larger context. I don’t think that any of us with student loans were informed that all basic rights available to other consumers would become null and void. When I think of poor decision-making I think of people living beyond their financial means or cheating other people. I don’t think most of us fit that profile. Most of us were attempting to be self-supportive but got caught up in a changing economy and other stressors of life some of which may be health. So let’s not talk about this issue in the same context of the housing market etc. You take loans out under the premise that you will be able to graduate which most of us have and done and find “commensurate” employment which most of us have not. Under that premise, you should be able to go to any school that you have the ability to be accepted into. You are told that if you work hard, apply yourself that you can have a piece of the “American Dream” whatever that might be. I digress. So essence we are being punished for trying to do the right thing?! Let’s get down to some of the facts about the industry, which have placed an additional strain on borrowers. Otherwise we are just dancing around the real issues on the table.

    Student loans are currently the only loans in our nation’s history to be exempted from statutes of limitations, basic bankruptcy protections, state usury laws, refinancing rights, truth in lending requirements and even fair debt collection practices. This is compounded by the fact that Congress has enabled the student loan industry to have collection practices that include tax return garnishment, wage garnishment, social security and disability garnishment without a court order. Borrowers can have their professional license and driver’s license suspended. They can also face termination from public employment as a result of the status of their student loan.

    This system is predatory by design and as a result it's virtually impossible to pay it all off. For example, you can take out a loan for 40,000 and after the loan has accrued the amount you owe will be roughly 3 times what you borrowed. Essentially what happens is that the interest is capitalized and the debt grows exponentially. According to 2004 article in the Wall Street Journal by John Hechinger, for every dollar paid out in default claims by the federal government, the US department of education gets back every dollar in principle plus almost 20% in interest and fees. This system makes it rewarding or profitable for a lending institution or guarantor when a borrower defaults.

    This is in addition to the fact that the cost of college has risen at double the consumer price index for the past 30 years. This current inflation has placed an immense amount of pressure on those with or without a need for student loans as well as their families. Higher education has vastly turned into a lucrative business for the university, various student loan entities as well as other stakeholders such as financial aid administrators. Fee income for Sallie Mae, the nation’s largest secondary market for student loans, increased by 228% between 2000-2005 while their managed loan portfolio only grew by 87% during the same time period. There is a sense that these lenders are profiting at the expense of many unsuspecting young borrowers. Many of them just have no idea what they are signing up for and the convoluted loan terms simply add to that ambiguity. As a result, many of these borrowers are left without any recourse.

    In October 2008, CNN money covered the student loan fugitives. As a generation of young adults who are just starting out in life, many of them see leaving the country as the only way out of their college debt. The Student Loan Scam by Alan Collinge presents a series of case studies that represent a diverse pool of graduates. These graduates have attempted to pursue an independent or a better lot in life only to meet financial catastrophe. Some lives have resulted in suicide over this predator behavior. Sallie Mae has also recently come under fire in Connecticut, Florida and Kentucky for legal allegations of violating federal civil rights and lending practices. This was done by deliberately targeting higher priced loans to students who were attending schools with a large “at-risk” or minority population.

  • Reciprocal responsibility...
  • Posted by Atana , prof on May 5, 2009 at 10:15pm EDT
  • Concerning the concept of responsibility, well that is reciprocal. For example all the talk about student's being told the full story about loans might be true in some individual cases. But in the recent past the handout sheets given for that, were often so ambiguous as to be worthless. In addition at some schools, the materials warning of debt risk are often produced (gratis, yeah right) by the subsidiaries of the educational loan companies. Inherently the true dangers of these loans are largely marginalized. And despite the revelations of conflicts of interest between lenders and school FA departments by such as the New York State AG, these activities still continue albeit in a more subtle manner. One of the more recent tricks is for educational lending corporations to provide the software used to assess student eligibility. Perhaps not outright improper but certainly suspicious.
    Profs do try to advise students to be careful with student debt. But any prof who'd speak with complete truth about the abuses inherent to that system, will soon find him or herself out of work. In this instance responsibility has been undermined by systemic pressure and the reality that most PhD's and other alphabet soup people are already mired body and soul to the edudebt industry. They dare not openly tell the truth, to do so is to openly wreck themselves.
    So academe has not held up to its responsibility. Students are the progeny of academe, but under our current system many would feed them into the maw of corporate lenders-because that's how this system maintains itself. Numbers matter, no matter who gets crunched.
    About responsibility and the student loan industry as it currently operates-well all the worlds major religions have proscriptions against usury. And that moral responsibility does not seem to have had an effect on some of the CEO's for some these corporate educational lenders.
    And what about the responsibility to keep their own products affordable so it does not adversely effect the rest of the economy or eventually their own stability? Obviously with 'liquidity' payments, insider lobbying, and until recently unprecedented profits this is not a concern for some of these companies. Systemically they have come close to breaking the financial backs of their clientele and yet they want more? And when the break does come, will there be enough left over to bail them out again? There certainly won't be anything to bail out their clientele.
    It's a very bad sign that the people running some of these corporations lack the basic pragmatic knowledge of (god help us) Henry Ford. Ford was a tough competitor, but even he knew that he had to balance the cost of his product to what people could afford...

  • Posted by David Gresham , Chemist at NA on May 5, 2009 at 10:15pm EDT
  • For those that believe filing bankruptcy on student loans due to financial or medical hardship to be shirking responsibilty, I ask you: What do you think about a person filing bankruptcy on credit cards for the same reason? If it is a non-issue because it isn't tax money, the issue of shirking responsibility still remains. I suggest that you are more motivated to quelch a persons ability to file BK on student loans because it is YOUR tax money. When it is another persons money that is lost via BK on credit cards, it doesn't bother you, right? Yep, when it is "your" money, a person is much more likely to not be in favor of BK, but rest assured, if those of you that disparage BK for student loans need to file BK on your credit cards, or lose your job and your house and need to file BK, I bet you are the first in line to the bankruptcy lawyer.

  • Posted by Death of a Doctorate on May 6, 2009 at 5:15am EDT
  • The problem with these comments is that they are ONLY a portion of the story Cato. In fact I did attend community college, graduating early from high school because of my ability - totally blowing away my counselor who advised I attend voc tech and never giving me options even though I was an honors student. I am first generation college graduate and suffered at the hands of my first husband defending my right to attend college even if it meant hiding my black eye with heavy make-up. Please spare me the lecture on "If you were so smart why did you stay?" I also have a certificate of concentration in Women's Studies while I pursued my undergrad in Political Science/Pre-Law as a single parent and was a part of a team of women who managed to persuade the University to offer a degree in Women's Studies. With enlightenment I pursued employment as a trainer to help women escape poverty and abuse. Feeling more confident I meet a man who is incredibly supportive and is currently working three jobs so that i am able to pursue my passion in a non-profit to assist high school students. Did he work while I was pursuing my PhD - yes - did he work 2 jobs - YES - while taking on the bulk of raising our 3 girls. And what did I do - you ask? I studied day and night, presented at conferences, conducted research and began to experience mysterious symptoms I disregarded. I eventually landed a great, but stressful job in government and then it hit - sarcoidosis (you know the ailment Bernie Mac died of - I have it in all the same places). Not fun - chronic pain. Not because I want the world to feel sorry for me - but just want the world to understand that many of us wanted to contribute to making our world a better place. The loans were ncessary to achieve the goal - to help others. Sound idealistic? Too bad - I am spreading the word to youth everywhere - YOU can make the world a better place! The problem here in these comments is that they ARE comments but they mirror our society - so quick to judge - so quick to have the answer to assumptions made about people's lives - that we lived a "lifestye". My life has been a very hard one, but I know there are those who have it harder and I commit myself to helping them feel less pain. As for those who killed my PhD - I recall the line in The Verdict by the nurse on the stand and I echo her.."Who were these men at the University - I only wanted my degree!!" Interestingly, years later the same university awarded me a prestigious award for my community service to youth. Go figure.

  • Posted by Michael on May 6, 2009 at 5:15am EDT
  • I fully support Alan and studentloanjustice.org. It has been an unbelievable nightmare dealing with Sallie Mae. I have 40k in private student loans and Sallie Mae's predatory tactics are comparable to the home lenders. My loans are now up to 60k in one year. I dropped out of college to try and get them under control but I'm going back to college this Fall. I'm not giving up on my education. If Senator Davis's (IL) amendement to repel the bankruptcy code of 2005 had been voted on today instead of Feb. 2008 when Republicans ran everything, it would've passed.

    Every large institution is getting adjustments, loans, handouts...everything except the kitchen sink. Yet, people who got into debt from educating themselves are NOT worthy? We need someone on capitol hill representing college students.

  • Student Loans -- A Recurring Nightmare
  • Posted by Shani S on May 6, 2009 at 5:15am EDT
  • It has come to the point where it no longer pays for ANYONE to receive a college education. The cost of student loans are out-of-control, to say the least!

    What are the incentives for people to mortgage at least 15 to 20 years of their life paying off the principal and spiraling/compounding student loan interest rates? Moreover, this does not include the numerous people, who due to no fault of their own, need to defer/put into forbearance their loans, which accumulates a gross, gross amount of penalties, fines, fees, etc.

    Personally speaking, these predator lenders have absolutely no concern, compassion or regard for the individual. They do not care what your current financial circumstances are; they do not care about any justified reason(s) why someone would need a lower monthly payment agreement...They simply SO NOT CARE!

    Due to being on SSD, I am only able to afford, and I use the word "afford" loosely because I sincerely cannot afford even a penny from my meger monthly SSD check to survive, to make payments of $150.00 per month to Sallie Mae. Now, even though I have spoken with Sallie Mae no less than 2 to 3 dozen times about my situation, and even though they DO NOT DISPUTE my financial situation, they INSIST on calling my home 10 TIMES A DAY because the payment is not for the full monthly amont. Now, make no apology when I say this is astounding

    Regarding this specific issue, I wrote to Sallie Mae requesting they cease to call my home 12 times a day based on my previous conversations with them, but more importantly, based on my financial hardship and this was their reply: "The Department of Education requires specific guidelines be followed by the lender or servicer of student loans in an effort to collect past due payments. These guidelines override the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. The guidelines are known as Due Diligence and represent the process by which the lender attempts to contact the borrower by telephone and written correspondence to resolve the delinquency."

    There's no reasonable or fair explanation for this answer. As I stated at the begining of my comment -- THEY DO NOT CARE!!!

  • Always avoiding the real issue
  • Posted by Leeha on May 6, 2009 at 5:15am EDT
  • I have 2 graduate degrees and an undergraduate degree.  My undergrad was public and free because my family was desperately poor.  Law school cost about $90k (and I am tired of people saying "if you can't afford it, don't go."  NO ONE can afford it out of pocket.  So, instead you should be telling institutions to close), and it damned sure wasn't Harvard.  As a full-time law student you are not allowed to work, so unless you have mom & dad bankrolling your living expenses or have some significant life savings, students almost always take out loans for living expenses out of necessity.  I did not.  I also paid more than 1/3 of my tuition in cash, and still left with $60k of debt.  I went to law school in order to have a career which would allow me to financially provide for my family.  But, alas, upon graduation about 50% of my class could not find employment.  A year later, I know 1/3 of that who are still unemployed/underemployed. 

    You cannot tell students not to take out a loan amount which would exceed their first-year salaries, because none of us have any idea what those salaries would or could be.  It wasn't until my third year of law school that it became clear to me that I would be lucky to work at Starbucks nevermind the $65k a year minimum I assumed I would make upon Bar passage somewhere, anywhere based on the employment statistics of my state, school, and intended profession.  

    The scam is schools charging this outrageous level of tuition that no student can realistically afford, yet college education is a necessity, and you don't just get to show up at the school of your choice--you must be accepted.  If you don't get into the cheap school...or you DO get into the cheap school, but the prestigious school would actually give you the opportunity to gain employment upon graduation...  What is a student to do?  Given the choice between Harvard and the University of Montana, guess who wins?  And would you really balk at the decision because it is the more expensive one?

    I agree with a previous poster: if I invest $100k into your product (education) and at the end of my tenure I'm only making $40k, then you (the university) owe me $60k.  If you believe your product is worth $100k, then you should have no problem guaranteeing it.  Otherwise, charge me what you're really worth.  I'm sure Harvard would gladly take a student up on this offer.  If you think it's not advisable for me to be racking up that kind of debt for an education, then you shouldn't be selling it to me at that price.  

    I doubt many students today (discounting the super rich) are going to college for "fun" and not to obtain some sort of ultimate career goal.  So sure, let's bankrupt a generation of the educated workforce.  Brilliant idea for the next 20 years of the national economy.

  • Concerned Parent
  • Posted by Jill on May 6, 2009 at 6:00am EDT
  • I am very worried about the loans my daughter will be taking out to get her education. At 17, she understands that she will need to pay the loans back, but, it's hard to say what percentage of her future income will be needed to pay these loans back. What concerns me about student loans is that they do seem predatory, with the high default costs, etc. I have preached to my DD that she really needs to consider being educated in something she can be licensed in (teacher, doctor, optometrist, physical therapist, accountant, etc). That doesn't even guarantee that there will be a job available to her when she graduates. Then....if something were to happen, like an unexpected layoff or medical issue, it seems that the lenders use this to their advantage to tack on fee after fee until eventually the loan amounts become overwhelming.

    I do not understand why there are no consumer protections for these "kids" who are taking out student loans. Our kids should be protected. As an adult, I have taken out student loans. The "class" that is required is boring at best and certainly not something a just-graduated-high-schooler would pay much attention to or even understand.

    Bottom line: I think there needs to be consumer protection, the ability to file bankruptcy if necessary, and a stop to predatory lending practices, including high default fees and interest rates. I think the majority of borrowers are good people and want to pay their loans back, in a reasonable manner.

  • The personal responsibility issue is a non-starter
  • Posted by Andy on May 6, 2009 at 8:15am EDT
  • As Allan points out in the article, it is easy to use anecdotal cases of irresponsible individuals abusing loan largesse and treating it as free money. However, it is impossible to truly quantify the financial responsibility of student borrowers so there is absolutely no point in making the assumption that getting into debt trouble is invariably the result of irresponsible spending.

    Private loans have been issued at interest rates of nearly 20%, my own included. This means that after 4 years of making regular payments, I actually owe $4,000 more than the original principal. I feel sick when I consider that I've dumped over $5,000 into a hole that never fills up. The central fact here is that I am trying to be responsible, trying to pay back my loan... but the structure of that loan and Sallie Mae's policies effectively make that impossible. To give one example of the difficulties, consider the fact that I paid $500 extra one month when I'd had a windfall month after doing some extra work in my spare time. Sallie Mae's policy is to apply overpayments to interest, meaning my next payment date was pushed back by a couple months. None of that money made the slightest dent into my principal. A total waste. A Sallie Mae representative told me over the phone that the only way for me to realistically pay off my loan would be to make consistent overpayments, month after month, for the next 10 years. Since I can't afford to do that, I guess I'm stuck here forever.

    My own lack of foresight is partly to blame, but the expectation that new graduates can afford to make payments on credit card-style interest rates is one made in bad faith. I realise this issue will face a lot of public skepticism but all it takes is a bit of research to confirm that the rules have slanted massively in favour of the lender, and the game is essentially fixed. We're bankrupting an entire generation as a result, essentially to enrich a few individuals in the financial sector. Ask yourself how responsible that really is.

  • Colleges profit from defaults...
  • Posted by Dale on May 6, 2009 at 8:45am EDT
  • I worked in the Student Loan collection business for 7 years. I saw thousands of loan agreements that had been forwarded to our agency for collection. Each of them had a required component that I doubt was read or seriously considered by the prospective borrower - the collection costs section. This section details the costs that will be added to the original loan amount if the loan goes into 'default' status. Here's the scary part... I saw some clauses that stupulated added collection costs equal to 100% of the outstanding loan amount. 100% - default on $20,000? You owe $40,000.

    Who benefits from a clause such as this you ask? The school, plain and simple - collection costs are a significant source of income for some schools.

  • Not Avoiding Issues
  • Posted by Cato on May 6, 2009 at 9:00am EDT
  • Death of a Doctorate: Your case is, as I said in an earlier post, very empathetic and an unusual one. If it were up to me, in truly exceptional cases, there would be some sort of exceptional equitable relief. The difficulty is that if you make a rule of general applicability that takes the truly exceptional case into account, it will become an avenue through which a very large number of people will take advantage of the system and spoil things for everyone. As a matter of fact, the 20+% default rates on student loans and the numbers who were discharging student loans through bankruptcy were the reasons the law was changed in ways that harm people like you. What were the alternatives? If the taxpayers were not prepared to eat the problem (which they were not, even with Democrats in control in Congress in the early 1990s), then the choice was between raising the rates on loans to cover the risk of default (which would have made student loans prohibitively expensive) or lower the risk of non-payment by removing the ability to discharge the loans in bankruptcy. Neither choice was a good one, and all of the potential problems, both for people in trouble and in trying to ensure that loans would remain available, were extensively debated.

    Leeha: When I applied to law school more than 30 years ago, I knew that if I couldn't get in to what is now called a "top 20" law school I would not be able to get a good job as a lawyer unless I was at the very top of my class. That was absolutely clear from reading the materials available on the LSAT and law school admission. Fortunately, there were several public choices among the top law schools. You're right that you're not supposed to work in law school. I did anyway, 30-40 hours a week, and juggled my schedule with sympathetic faculty to make it work. Over the past 30 odd years, I have counselled hundreds of students who were considering law school. I have consistently advised them to be realistic about their prospects. Significant debt should be acceptable only if you (1) are admitted to a top 15 law school and (2) you have a realistic prospect of ending up in the top 1/3-1/2 (depending on the school) of your class so that you have a realistic prospect of a "big law" job in a major city that will enable you to quickly retire your debt. If your plan is to practice in a particular state other than in Boston, New York, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, or San Francisco, you can probably be OK if you go to the flagship public law school in your state, because of the networking, but again, only if you are a law review editor or otherwise at the top of your class.

    This is harsh, but true. Otherwise, do not take on any significant debt to go to law school. You want to be a lawyer? Great. Save your money. Or get mom and dad to pay. Or get scholarships. But, that's it. Because, there odds are good that you will not be able to get a job in a major law firm, and you will probably not make significantly more as a lawyer doing insurance defense or criminal or family law than you did before law school, even if you can get the work at all. On all sorts of legal bulletin boards, one sees complaints from students who have gone to law schools below the top tier (and the various state flagships) who say they were deceived about their job prospects. I don't know, perhaps it's possible, but the information was certainly available for those who were interested enough to do some research.

    Dr. F Gump: What world? The same one you did, at state schools. At my undergraduate college, the state of Virginia had a specific program for very poor students that paid almost all their expenses (and gave them jobs for the rest), but required them to work for the state after graduation for a few years or serve in the military. Remarkably few students had loans. Even when I was in graduate school, at a major state university with no tuition in those days, most of the people I knew met their expenses through a combination of work (whether through the university or otherwise), and scholarships. There were some loans, but the amounts were modest and the interest rates low.

    The reason some economics professors suggested loading up on student loan debt in the late 1970s was that the rate (3%) was well below inflation. A smart student could borrow at 3% and invest the money tax free and get a better return. Essentially, it was a way to rent the money for less than it was worth. But, of course, you had to be disciplined not to use the money. I had law school colleagues who did just that - borrowed at 3% and invested at over 20% (remember Carter?) for several years, and then paid the loans off and still had more than they had borrowed! Credit card debt, however, was different because the rates were designed to be greater than inflation.

    You wrote: Hell let's just all join the legions of evil and encourage under-prepared poor students to embark upon college studies with no future plans. Pump up that bubble brothers and sisters, hell ain't half full.

    I really don't know what you mean by this. I'm certainly no fan of students going to college (especially if they are taking on debt) when they don't have a clue of what they want to study or to do. I've always thought it was a good idea for high school graduates to take a year or so and work before going to college. Or, go to a community college. I'm torn between the somewhat romantic ideal that it would be a good thing if everyone had the benefit of a good traditional liberal arts education along the lines of the one I was fortunate enough to have, and the reality that an awfully large number of young people really don't have either the interest or the ability to do what was considered university level work 40-50 years ago. The vast increase in the number of college students has given opportunity to many who would not have had it 50 years ago, but has also resulted in millions of students going to college because it 'beats work' and is fun, and who come out as poorly educated as when they entered.

  • A short video - my reaction to my son's descent into debt
  • Posted by Ray Brannon , Ph.D. candidate at Indiana University of Pennsylvania on May 6, 2009 at 9:30am EDT
  • I suspect that a major contributing factor (one that I wish to empirically validate) of dropping-out of college in the junior and senior year of college is debt-related. Easy access to credit cards and other debt instruments has contributed to an alarming increase in debt by many students who either do not have the resources to pay or the family support system to help them. This particularly affects students from lower socio-economic backgrounds. In an attempt  to stay ahead of the bill collectors, it often means that many students take on jobs and either reduce their academic load leading to a prolonged education or simply drop-out. More often than not it is their families that are the last to know about their financial dilemma. My son was one such calamity. His road to personal bankruptcy was filled with secrecy, shame and pain. 

    I believe that colleges and universities should take this problem seriously by educating students in the orientation phase of their academic life. Debt education, counseling and support should be an integral part of university affairs. I have done a prototype of an education outreach program. You can view it on YouTube under the title of "To Catch a Creditor." I'll let the video speak for itself. 

    While there is some encouraging news that the Obama administration is trying to curb predatory lending abuse, it will take more than legislative action to make a difference with often naive and vulnerable students. It will require an educational investment in our young people to counteract the siren call of aggressive "buy-now, pay later" marketing and advertising directed at students arriving on college campuses. 

  • CC's only a partial answer
  • Posted by Atana , Prof on May 6, 2009 at 9:45am EDT
  • Cato and company...
    The dilemma with the model of saving for college is that due to the escalations of tuition (driven in a major part by loan funds) it is no longer possible to save enough to make meaningful progress towards tuition. The average 6%+ tuition increases caused by reduction of proper state and federal support and the increased reliance on student debt preclude such a tactic for many. And within the working and lower middle classes a generational loss of status makes it even more difficult for them to save enough for college. And that decline of status is obvious for example according to the CIA ; "The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households." (CIA 2009 World Fact Book, USA)

    And as a correlative result the CC population is very vulnerable to the conditions caused by reliance on student debt for educational funding. Many will be heading into lower echelon trades, such as nurses aids, data entry, truck driving or etc. Many of which do not pay all that well, and so although the amount they need to borrow for school is much less-the amount of debt needed compared to potential income can be proportionally just as damaging as that of their more affluent brethren. And many of the CC population lacks the background to fully comprehend the fine print on loan promissory notes, or are so desperate to try to improve their status, that signing such is often done without full comprehension of the dangers. And the recent fairly small increases in Pell amounts do little to change this situation for the CC populations. The real effect being largely negated by state cutbacks in educational support for these institutions.

    Additionally certain proprietary schools have at times made an unholy alliance with lenders and have been known to prey upon their students. Many of whom are very vulnerable due to the need and desire to improve their lot. I recall advising one family not to take out an estimated 30,000 of loans for a culinary/cooking school.

    And the whole concept of education=debt has become so entrenched that there is no population in our country which is unaffected. These companies even have a presence on reservations and are quite willing to apply their 'public services' to populations which have the lowest per capita income and highest unemployment rates in the country (up past 60% in some cases). Students may leave to attend upper echelon schools, but if circumstances or obligations lead them back to the reservations the edudebt companies follow even there...

    The whole situation is appalling, and if it continues for much longer it will assuredly kill the concept of college serving as a social elevation.

  • In Debt for life
  • Posted by Mark Hatala on May 6, 2009 at 9:45am EDT
  • In Debt for Life

     

    I have been reading some of the comments stating that a borrower should "read the loan documents" before signing them. This argument gets dilluted to the point of obsurdity when one objectively examines the promisorry notes in detail. My promisorry notes ( taken out in the 1980's) only state the following :

    1. All words and phrases of this note shall have the meaning subscribed to them, and all terms and conditions not specifically enumerated shall be determined by the Higher Education Act of 1965 (P.L. 89-329) as amended, the Wisconsin Consumer Act where applicable, and federal and state rules and regulations promilgated under these acts, both thereinafter called the"Act ".

     

    Nowhere in this provision is it stated that the Higher Education Act of 1965 ,by law ,must be "reauthorized" every five years.These reauthorizations can change the fundamental provisions of the loan terms dramatically, the best example being the provisions for bankruptcy protections.

     

    It would be impossible to make an intelligent and informed decision to borrow money, when the terms of the original promisorry note can be changed with each new "reauthorization" of the Higher Eduvcation Act of 1965.

  • help
  • Posted by Forever in debt on May 6, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • Why is it that a child can make a financial decision that will effect their credit history FOREVER, but someone who goes out and decides to live above their menans and purchase an expensive house or car, etc can get a fresh start with a bankruptcy? Why isn't their a way to help the person that made a poor financial decision at age 18 but there is a way to help the people who bought homes, cars, etc that they could not afford. This problem is going to get much worse as time goes on! Lenders give students 40k per year no matter what their major is! They do not care what the money is spent on. 40k in your checking account. How many young adults do you know that will spend that money wisely? They then graduate and cannot afford the monthly payments of 1000 since they had no idea what they would reallistically make out of college! Something needs to be done!

  • Posted by Andrea on May 6, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • Many people talk in these comments about how if you would go to a community college and get your education you wouldn't be in so much trouble with student loans. Well, I come from a small town of 350 people where my graduating class was a total of 9 people. I was 4th in my class and did very well in school. Because I come from such a small school and they didn't offer a hole lot of advanced classes and opportunities that the big school offered there was really no way for me to get Scholarships. The community college was over an hour and half a way from where I lived so there was no way of me attending this college without deciding to move their. My parents only made about $68,000 a year so that put me out for all grants, and even limited my financial aid. My parents did not fund any of my school or my living expensive, I was on my own after I turned 18. I decided to attend Eastern Michigan University, when I got there as a freshman there were over 13,000 students in the freshmen class. Coming from a small school this was overwhelming to me. I decided after one semester and $7000 later, I just couldn't be in classes with over 250 students in them. I decided after this that I needed a much smaller school. So after searching for schools, I decided to attend The Art Institute of Pittsburgh where class sizes were smaller then 20 and it was a much easier environment to learn in. I only lived one quarter in the dorms and later moved out got a full time job and paid for my rent, utilities and living expensive through this job. I only took student loans out for tuition and fees. It took me 6 years to finish my education. Every time I needed more money for school the Financial aid office would call you into their office and say "here we need you to sign this so you have enough money next semester." You'd say okay well what is it they would tell you it was a student loan from the government and you'd have 25 years to pay it back when you got out of school. Well 25 years to a 19 years old sounds like a very long time. So you'd sign it and go on your way. 8 years later I'm now 27 years old. I'm a Graphic Designer making $32,000 a year. Because The Art Institute Was so expensive (yes I should have realized this when I was 18, but just thought I'd have all those years to pay it back) I know owe $79,988 which my payments are $725 a month on, which is 48% of my paycheck. I work in one of the best jobs as a Graphic Designer in this city, I've been working for 5 years now, and I don't think I could ever be able to make these payments. Although I have been paying on these student loans, and have tried to negotiate better payments it's just a worthless effort. Every month I get a little more behind and as a result I have defaulted on $32,000 worth of student loans, even though I was paying them a little bit a month but not enough that they never ever caught up. It turns out that with these private loans they can not be consolidated in with your Federal loans so you can't ever get your payments down enough that you'd actually be able to pay them down. Even with the new law that goes into effect in July where they can't take anymore then 15% of your income if you have separate loans besides federal loans, the law just doesn't work. I have no idea what I'm going to do with these loans, my job is providing me a lawyer to speak to, to try to negotiate better terms but I doubt I'll ever be able to fully get out of debt, buy a house, or even get a little bit ahead in life. I've put off trying to start a family, and everything just trying to get these paid down. But it's worthless trying, you really get nowhere and constantly feel defeated. Every time you negotiate with the defaulted loans they seem to change your terms after a few payments so it's so hard to keep negotiating.

    All I ask is that congress make it a little fairer for the borrowers, I want to be able to pay $400 a month on my loans which is still a lot for my $1600 a month that I bring home, but this was still not enough for them...So now what am I supposed to do? Hopefully the lawyer will be able to help me a little bit.

  • Posted by Andrea on May 6, 2009 at 10:15am EDT
  • One other comment I'd like to add to my above post is that I have no credit card debt, no housing debt, no medical debt, and the only other debt I have is a car payment. So why is it if I had all this other debt with credit cards, and medical, and any other things you can get a loan for out there, that there is help for those people but NO help for me? At least I didn't rack up debt with credit cards going on shopping sprees at the mall! And I had medical debt because I had to get my gallbladder out which cost me $5000 out of pocket but I paid that off, and I was responsible enough to always have health insurance that I also had to pay for. When some people just constantly rack up debt, and then file bankruptcy on it, How is this fair? Why is it so different?

  • OK, so what do we DO?
  • Posted by Cato on May 6, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • Atana: I can't disagree with anything that you wrote, but what's the solution? Who should bear the cost of higher education?

    What is clear -- whether you or I like it or not -- is that the taxpayers are not prepared to bear more of the cost. They already do quite a bit through the subsidies to community colleges, state colleges and state universities, through various state scholarship funds, and, at the federal level, through certain grants, fellowships, and the subsidies for student loans that either subsidize interest rates or pay interest while students are in college. And, the taxpayers are not willing to subsidize further the cost of attending either private or even public colleges and universities. I think you have to take that as a given. With all of the competing demands on the national resources, paying everyone's college costs is just not in the cards.

    We can all agree that college has become far more relatively expensive than it was 20, 50 or 100 years ago. Costs have gone up at at least twice the rate of inflation, and even public colleges boast amenities (we're not talking about just classrooms, libraries and dormatories) that a generation ago would have seemed absurd. Some costs are technology - wiring / wireless networks, computing, etc. is not cheap, but a fair amount of it is in making these places very attractive. Someone has to pay for that.

    Traditionally, parents have paid all or part of costs where possible. Students have always worked part time. Colleges, and private individuals or foundations, have provided scholarships. But, these don't meet the current costs. So, what happens? If loan money is not available, are colleges in a position to (or willing to) cut the price? Are faculty willing to take less in order to reduce the price? Are administrators willing to be pretty much eliminated to reduce the price? I know this sounds silly, but it's a serious set of questions.

    If no one else steps up, then we'll have a whole lot fewer students attending college. Would that be a bad thing? Most people seem to think so, but most people are only willing to do something about it wish someone elses money.

    Is it realistic to expect lenders -- who are in business to make money for their shareholders after all -- to subsidize education? Does that lead us down the road (as I broached before) of having different amounts of subsidy depending on how likely a program is to lead to employment that will permit repayment?

  • Posted by Steve on May 6, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • When I was preparing to sign the papers for my student loans, I read the papers and did my best to understand my responsibilities, but the legalese was too much for a 17 year-old to reasonably be expected to fully understand. Every attempt for clarification from the financial aid officers at my school led to the same answer: "Don't worry about it. You'll be making enough to pay when you graduate, and even if you don't there are programs that allow you to make payments based on your actual income." This was in the 1990s, which was, I believe, before any such payments existed. Financial Aid people have plenty of incentives to downplay (and in some cases, even lie about), the actual cost of student loans, but most students who are taking out loans (and therefore probably can't afford unbiased legal or financial counseling) have no one else to turn to with their questions and generally do not have the life experience to realize that these people may not have their best interests at heart.

    Even if you can limit the borrowed amount to the expected first year salary upon graduation, there is no guaranty that you will get a job making that salary. When you, like most people, don't land that great job right out of college and your loan payments are a huge portion of your income, one unexpected event--illness, unemployment, car trouble--can cause you to miss payments, and that's all the loan people need. As soon as you start to fall behind (sometimes even by missing a single payment), you open yourself up to interest increases, ridiculous penalties, and of course endless harassment. There are options for deferring the loans, but most of them incur fees and require a certain period of time to implement. If you can't pay because of an unexpected lack of funds, you're just screwed and, in all likelihood, will soon find yourself throwing a substantial percentage of your income into a hole that just gets deeper each month.

    The image of irresponsible students borrowing huge amounts to spend on cocaine and hookers while attending an "elitist" Ivy League school and then trying to screw over the poor, defenseless lenders is no doubt an appealing one to the teabagger crowd, but it's just not the reality.

  • wow...
  • Posted by Supercalifragilistic , Head-of-Disbelief at Higher Ed. - USA on May 6, 2009 at 11:00am EDT
  • The level of arrogance in here surprises me considering that this is a higher education site. How people lay the blame on the student's feet, and only on the student's feet is simply amazing. Yes students, people getting the loans, are to blame in some part because they sign up for loans that are simply insane!  

    Schools should shoulder the blame for high tuitions and fees, and not educating students about the potential pitfalls. 

    The government should shoulder the blame for creating a perfect storm for predatory lending. 

    As a society we are to blame because we place emphasis on a piece of paper that is supposed to make your life better. That somehow going to college and getting a degree in X will make you more socially acceptable than going to trade school and being a carpenter, plumber, builder or mechanic.

    Society is also to blame for not recognizing that people with degrees deemed useless (English, Political Science, French Literature, etc) can and do contribute to society. They go back and they become teachers who are low-paid and always next to the guillotine when public funds go dry. How do people repay those loans with low-pay and the threat of termination? These are people educating our future generations.

    Organized religion is also to blame. How can a self-professed nation of christians stand for such vile exploitation? You can rally your congregation to go out and vote for your presidential candidate, but you can't help out your fellow man by pointing out the immorality of such predatory lending actions?

    The blame doesn't belong to one person, and one person cannot fix this problem. We all need to come together to fix it.

    Disclaimer: I hold five degrees (1 BS, and 4 Masters) and I am starting on a PhD soon. I played my cards right and I am debt free

  • Homeless and expected to pay
  • Posted by Gerson on May 6, 2009 at 11:15am EDT
  • I was a first generation college graduate. Thanks to me, my cousins are learning of what and what not to do when it comes to borrowing. I had not a person explain to me loans and repayments etc. The financial Aid office didn't explain to me many things that I needed to know when I was applying for these loans in order to stay in school. Remember, I was the first in my whole family to go to college. I had a burdon to graduate, failure was not an option for me. I went to school 3,000 miles away from home, which of course forced me to live on campus. I appreciate the experience and loved it. By my sophomore year, I was struggling to keep my head above water, culture shock, home sickness, depression (I grew up in California, where the weather is warm. I went to school in NJ where they had one of the wors storms in history my freshman year) due to the coldness, and overwhelmed with school work, caused me to put on the breaks and take a semester off. No one, not the counselor, not my adivisor, informed me that if I was out of college for six months I would start getting charged for my loans.

    Well, I came back to school later that summer and behold, without my knowledge bills were sent to my home in California. My mother who can't speak or read English, was working two jobs at the time and taking care of my younger brother, she didn't understand what these bills were for. I had no phone on campus so the only time we spoke was when I called her. Needless to say, while I was in school I was being charged. I defaulted on the loans. When I finally graduated, I wasn't able to find a job right away, so I became homeless. I was homeless for approximately 11 months. Hopping from friends' houses to friends' houses. Before I knew it I had collectors calling my friend's homes asking for me telling me that I had been a "bad boy" for not paying my loans. I didn't understand what this man was saying, as he was accusing me of not paying my debts. Finally I was able to attain a job and as soon as I did, my wages were garnished. Now, my credit is lower than the Dow and although I would love to move forward with my life and repay my debt and hopefully one day start a family, I see that I can't. Bankruptcy has crossed my mind, but then I would still have to pay back the money and making my credit worse I won't be able to buy a home.

    There are a lot of external things that have placed me in this situation, yet when I ask for help from Government, I get no response. Did I mention, that I give back to my community? I created mentoring programs in Urban areas to help kids get out gangs, etc. I also mentor minority students in high schools and colleges.

    So, how can I get some help?

  • Loan Consolidation
  • Posted by Garrett on May 6, 2009 at 11:15am EDT
  • I'd like to throw my own story into the ring.

    Four years ago, I attended a school in Visual Communications and graduated at the top of my class in March of 2009. While in school I made it a point to work very hard and do everything I can to land a job at a great firm in Chicago. Fortunately for me I accomplished my goal and I am currently employed.

    Here is where this story gets grim. I've included numbers to bring this home for everyone. Months before I graduated Sallie Mae stopped offering loan consolidation. In their previous loan policy I would have paid around $450/month over 30 years with intentions of paying in more as I further my career. My payments are now based on a 15 year payoff at a pro rated monthly payment of $550. However that will ramp up to $950/month by 2010. Currently my take home pay is a little over $2000/month. I am fortunate enough to work in a field where I can find extra money working as a freelance web developer at night so I am floating for now but it is incredibly difficult (and I feel like one of the lucky ones).

    Every payment I manage to make feels really empowering. However, I am pulling for Alan can get standard consumer protection rights passed before my payments go up to $950/month. I feel as though he was in may same situation when he graduated. Best of luck to everyone involved!

    Garrett

  • Bankruptcy protection
  • Posted by WIWill , Forever in debt at A really good school on May 6, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • One poster suggested that there was the massive problem with doctors and lawyers getting out of student loans via bankruptcy. I have no doubt that there might have been a very minute percentage that did this. Callous individuals that did not care about their credit history had no morals and responsibility and I think they made great poster children for the banking lobby. Since the big change I have seen no such person. Nor any studies confirm the existence of these horrible evil doers.

    Now with respect to the "cohort" default rate cited by the Fed, I think my situation is considered to be "note in default". I had a similar experience as Alan. Graduating in a bad economy, leaning too heavily on family resources that dried up in a bad real estate market, death, disease, depression and retrospectively some bad choices on my part. My $70,000 ballooned to about three hundred. Right now to make the interest only payments would require 50% of my take home salary. So I have been in deferment for about five years now. Making the payments I can to my three different lenders. My Fed note is not in default at all, I am on hardship deferment and when that runs out I do not know what is going to happen. So while I may not be in default I am clearly in trouble.

    There is no way the loans will ever get smaller. The private lender of $15000 that has ballooned to more then 30,000 steadfastly refused to consider any refinance, any rehabilitation and why should they, thier privately owned collection agency tacks on a 20% collection fee.

    Bankruptcy was conceived hundreds of years ago to keep these sorts of things from happening. I believe the public policy is to encourage risk taking and economic activity. The idea being that if you try to make in business or in the economy and borrow some funds to get a start, if it does go completely bad for you, you end up insolvent, you will get another chance. I sacrificed a lot to go to school, I worked hard in school, when my life turned upside down I lived like a nomad for four or five years. You can try to say I made my own mistakes, but I hardly think that the CEOS of AIG, Sallie Mae, Freddie Mac, GM, Chrysler, Washington Mutual, etc are going through anything like what I and others like me have been subjected to, and we did not cost the economy trillions of dollars from every American.

    If bankruptcy protections are restored for people like me, they will for one thing provide us with the opportunity to negotiate with the note holders to make a reasonable deal. My notes, while totally about $300,000 are really not that valuable to anyone. I am older, closer to the end of my career than the beginning, the likelihood that the notes will ever be fulfilled as written is so small that the present value of the notes is probably a tenth of the face value or less.

    Bankruptcy laws are all that the little guy has when trouble happens and lenders refuse to be reasonable. Do you think it is right to try to place the burden of funding a system disproportionately on those that for whatever reason found that there economic and professional dreams were to be squashed during a some relatively brief period in their lives?

    In retrospect there were ways for me to avoid my situation, but prospectively I, and many others like me, taking guidance from many sources were making the best prospective decisions we could.

  • Posted by Atana , Prof on May 6, 2009 at 11:45am EDT
  • Cato, true it is quite a dilemma. But the problem is our current system is largely a redirection of resources which sieves an incredible amount of money through corporate lenders. It would be better to re-establish systems of direct aid, which would be in the end result cheaper for the taxpayers.
    For example the quarter billion dollar over billing of a few years ago would have paid the tuition of every two year student in a state the size of Colorado. Wasted money.
    Additionally having a system which ensures students become mired in debt impossible to pay, is ultimately a disaster for other taxpayers and the economy as a whole. What has been done is to turn an entire generation into educational sharecroppers. As such much of what income they can make, does not go to the consumer economy. As such a substantial amount of tax revenue is lost for such as car and home sales and other core elements of the non-speculative economy.
    And to imply a trickle down works regarding the massive amounts of revenues generated by these edudebt companies does not work. They largely use these assets for more speculation, often in high risk areas, and often go hat in hand to their cronies in government for more handouts (liquidity payments).
    One solution is to restore consumer protections in regards to these loans, including on a retroactive basis (which is not the problem expected as the ededebt corporations have already engineered back payments for subsidies already paid). Re-establishing consumer rights would beneficial to tax payers for two reasons. First by making such as income based payments or debt forgiveness or reduction possible, it will make it possible for the most creative, ambitious, and driven people in our society to direct their earnings back into the real economy. As opposed to having their efforts largely lost to a massive speculators binge. Second is that restoring some balance in regards to these loans could be instrumental in keeping what is left of our social and economic stability. It is very dangerous to lose the best of a generation to unneeded and unfair debt, because by those circumstances they are driven out of a place in society. It is also dangerous because what we have is a massive credit bubble, which has been artificially driven to such levels that when it bursts it could collapse our economy. In that regard it is more efficient to restore balance, rather than waiting for the mess to blow up and spend all the money on the wrong people and too late.

  • Loans keep getting sold/reassigned
  • Posted by Elisa on May 6, 2009 at 11:45am EDT
  • Since graduating from a state school in 2001, my loans have been sold several times. It has been so difficult to keep up with who has what and now I am being garnished. My repayment is now $354 and I get paid once a month.

    It is now making the rest of my financial mess just that . . . a mess.

    It is impossible to repay these loans when the interest rate jumps, the loans get sold or transferred and not get cleared by bankruptcy.

    Any change for the reduction of the payments, amount of time, and a strict control over the loans being sold to other institutions would be a great help.

  • Bravo to InsideHigherEd.com and Alan Collinge
  • Posted by Gene Gaudette , Publisher at American Politics Journal on May 6, 2009 at 1:00pm EDT
  • Hats off to InsideHigherEd.com -- and Alan Collinge -- for bringing this increasingly important issue to a broader public. A generation ago, it took me a full ten years to pay off my student loans, and at the time it was indeed a huge chunk out of my take-home salary. Nowadays the situation is far tougher for students, given the high cost of postsecondary education and the outright greed of lending institutions.

    Access to education and freedon from financial burden are at last being seen as de facto issues of national security and stability -- and the possibility that the Obama Administration and Congress might well nationalize the student loan industry could usher in badly-needed reforms, disburden millions of Americans, and grant millions more access to the education they need and deserve in a highly competitive global market.

  • Bankruptcy reform is essential to solving student loan mess
  • Posted by Richard Fossey , Professor and Senior Policy Researcher at University of North Texas on May 6, 2009 at 1:45pm EDT
  • Many of the comments posted above were written by people who made bad decisions about student loans. People make bad decisions every day; that doesn't mean their lives should be ruined.

    Bankruptcy laws are designed to give overburdened debtors a second chance. Overburdened student loan debtors are no less deserving of a second chance than anyone else who files for bankruptcy.

    Our federal government is bailing out the financial services and banking industries, which were led by people who made poor decisions. Student loan debtors need the same kind of consideration that has been extended to AIG and Chrysler. Reforming the bankruptcy laws to allow worthy college loan borrowers to discharge their college loan debts is key to solving the problem of overburdened college loan borrowers.

  • Posted by LF on May 6, 2009 at 2:15pm EDT
  • I won't go into too much detail about my situation.  Only that I have approx $120K in student loan debt with an art school degree.

    I am a very intelligent person and feel embarrassed to have found myself in this situation that will likely haunt me until I am at least 50 years old (I'm 25 now).  I will not be able to purchase a home any time soon and will hesitate to get married and bring someone else into this situation.

    I was LIED to.  

    By our society: you must get a bachelor's degree directly out of high school in order to succeed, and you must get it from the BEST college you can possibly afford by any means possible.

    By my school: they gave me a scholarship in the amount of $7,500 a year and I was told that this would increase every year and that I would be given the opportunity to add to that with other scholarships so that my tuition and expenses would Decrease every year.  Ha!  I appealed and appealed and applied to scholarships.  Never received another dime while they INcreased tuition costs by 20% every year!

    After two years of this, I considered stopping the bleeding and quitting school.  But what was I going to do with $50K in loans, no degree, and art school credits that won't transfer??!?  I was forced to continue to wrack up the debt.  I worked full time all the way through school (which greatly compromised the quality of my education) and didn't spend the loan money frivolously.  I drove a crappy car, lived in modest places with roommates, and ate at the restaurants where I worked.

    By my lenders: They all promised and offered private consolidation loans during the years I was in school (2002-2006).  I had a difficult time finding a job in 2007 and therefore couldn't even apply for a consolidation until my income was established in 2008.  By then, the bottom had fallen out.  Almost all lenders STOPed offering this service.  I was marginally approved for a consolidation loan that would lock me in at an 8% interest rate for 30 years.  I wouldn't be allowed to re-consolidate.  so I decided to wait until I got a raise in order to reduce that interest rate.  I reapplied in Jan of this year and was denied entirely even with a better score and better income.

    My payments add up to $1500 a month.  $50K of that debt is at a 9.75% interest rate!!! I paid $14K just in interest last year (on a $32,000 salary) and was only allowed to write off $2,500.

    My lenders won't work with me on payment or interest arrangements.  Because the loans are federally guaranteed, Sallie Mae and others actually get MORE money by allowing me to default and charging it off to the feds.  How is this LEGAL???

    Now I'm laid off.  I was two days late on my payment and started receiving threatening phone calls from Sallie Mae.  Day and night, weekends, all the time.  I don't know what to do next.  I'm in architecture and our industry is not bouncing back anytime soon.

    My only hope is that Obama hears our cry for help and maybe just maybe our consumer protections will apply to these private loans.  OR my idea is for the government to offer private consolidation loans themselves at reasonable interest rates and payment options.

    I'm not trying to get out of this debt that I incurred.  I went to a very expensive school that I had no right to try and go to based on the fact that my family has no money.  I just didn't think that that should deter me from trying to get the same education as the rich kids.  Boy am I paying the price.

  • voodoo math
  • Posted by Ex-Loan Huckster on May 6, 2009 at 3:00pm EDT
  • Almost every hardship case written about here or in other forums is very difficult to believe. The art school example is contradictory since there is blame on everyone involved (even 'society') but no acceptance of individual responsibility, even a claim to entitlement: "I didn't think that should deter me from trying to get the same education as the rich kids." My cousin wanted to go to RISD and I talked him into UMass for 2yrs then a transfer - he ended up staying at UMass and now working in graphic design with some debt but no private. But in the long term his degree is hypothetically worth less than example above, why should the score be zeroed out? It is maddening to hear people wanting to be let out of their obiligations after having partaken of the good life, best schools, etc. while MILLIONS of others sacrificed to obtain less prestigious degrees, skipped Caribbean spring breaks, etc. So you were poor, and some other kid was poor. You went to prestigious art school on OPM, he went to C.C. or Vocational school on sweat and hard work. But your debt should be erased? You will always have your degree. I'd like to have my Audi lease forgiven and my jumbo mortgage cut in half because I was lied to by the mortgage officer that said the property value would increase 15%/year and I could refinance before the 7/1 ARM reset. Wish me luck.

  • Posted by Leah , Violence Prevention Educator on May 6, 2009 at 3:00pm EDT
  • I graduated from a private college and paid roughly $20,000/year in tuition. I signed up for this situation when I was 18 and had never taken out a loan for anything prior to financing my college education. I knew that $80,000 of debt was a lot but couldn't really grasp exactly how much money that was until I finished college and started repaying my student loans. I currently work at a non-profit agency dedicated to preventing domestic violence. I love my job but only make about $30,000/year. I pay my student loans every month (totaling about $400) and am able to pay my other bills at this point in my life. The one thing I am unable to do, and would really like to do, is purchase a house. I can't afford a mortgage payment because so much of my salary is eaten up by my student loan payments. I don't want to default on my loans but I also don't want to wait until I retire to be able to afford a home. I don't see any way out of this situation unless I take another job, which I probably won't like as much if I'm just looking at it from a financial perspective, and enjoying my career and doing something that matters is something that is extremely important to me. I would also like to have a family in the near future but don't know how I could afford to have children and still pay my bills. This doesn't seem right to me. I don't think people should have to work in a corporate (or other) position doing something they dislike for good money just so they can repay their student loans, buy a home and have a family. Shouldn't you be able to go to college, get a degree, do something meaningful and productive for society with that education, and still be able to be happy with a family of your own without wondering how you're going to afford groceries AND your bills that month? I would think so. Something is drastically wrong with the entire system and really limits the opportunities for people in this country that is supposed to be the land of opportunity. And the worst part? There are no alternatives at this point so people are forced to deal with the system in its current state of dysfunction. Things need to change!

  • RE: Student Loan Scam
  • Posted by Devanand on May 6, 2009 at 3:45pm EDT
  • It is time to restore basic consumer protections to  student loan borrowers. it does not matter whether someone took out their loans responsibly or irresponsibly - this is not the point. We are currently spending billions of dollars to bail out irresponsible banks, auto companies, etc, and the government position doesn't seem to be "well, they made their mess and should be responsible for it." This happens time and time again: Corporations, banks, wealthy people, get bailed out, get breaks, can afford to pursue all kinds of legal loopholes to avoid their "irresponsibility" (read: greed), while middle class citizens pursuing higher education get the stick. 

    Making millions of Americans wage slaves - essentially indentured servants -- is beyond the pale. I know a number of colleagues who live in fear, have no life, and are servants to student loan corporations now, due to their lack of foresight, which if we are all honest, happens to most of us at some point in our lives. Restore standard consumer protections and end what is the most shameful sanctioned "racket" going these days.

  • "No one can afford it" is just bullshit
  • Posted by DFS on May 6, 2009 at 3:45pm EDT
  • Do what I did. Just work independently for over ten years, saving enough to finance yourself. Then sign a small enough loan for a guaranteed rate. I chose the Stafford Loan.
    But, first, I had to work and save. Anyone else can do this, too, and they do.

  • Posted by Atana on May 6, 2009 at 3:45pm EDT
  • ExLoanHuskter et al

    Actually the horror stories referred to in this discourse are hardly exceptional. Most Profs can privately tell of such incidents which have happened to associates or former students. And another means to tell is to observe the vehicles driven by new professorial hires. Many of these would not look out of place on a second, third or fourth world street. The new hires have so much of their income diverted to the edudebt industry that their living standard is often abysmal. And these are the people who are the ones who are going to continue the traditions and service of higher education?

    Additionally the sweetheart deals given to these lenders and the effect that this has had on higher education have been disasterous. Many are already beginning to believe higher ed is a fools game, essentially academe is increasingly perceived as the moral equivalent of a rent to own or payday loan operation. The main distinction is that academe is covered over in Ivy.

    Billions are neing made, but the moral and systemic costs to academe may be terminal...

  • Re: 'Voodoo math'
  • Posted by LF on May 6, 2009 at 4:00pm EDT
  • Wait a second here, Ex-Loan Huckster.  Where exactly in my post did I ask for my loans to be forgiven??  
    Where did I not take responsibility for the decisions I made on the advice of people in authority positions when I was barely 18 years old?

    My degree was earned on sweat and hard work as well.  I worked full time, sometimes two jobs at a time, while going to that prestigious school.  There were no Caribbean spring breaks.  Every other quarter I was fighting with loan companies to just allow me to stay at school so that I could get a degree to start paying all this off.

    I also was trying to say I probably had no business going to that school, should have gotten the all necessary bachelor's at a state school because they are all pretty much worth the same.

    All I'm asking is for lenders to work with us on interest rates and payment amounts as promised while the debt was being incurred.  Instead we are being gouged at credit card rates with no way of working our way out.  

    That Audi you drive?  You can sell it, or worse-case scenario have it re-possesed.  Your gigantic house payment can be negotiated with your mortgage lender, especially under the new acts that Obama is putting into place.

    If I could sell my degree and start over I would.  If I could have started over at a state school after two years at my art school, I would have.  

    If people can wrack up $50K or more in credit card debt on shiny new material purchases that are worthless after they are used and charge them off with BK, people who got into this situation trying to get a good education should be allowed the same.

    But I'M not even asking for that.  I'm just asking that the lenders work with me on a reasonable interest rate and affordable payment.

    But yeah, good luck on your luxury car and McMansion.  Keeping up with the Joneses seems to have paid off for you.

  • not personal
  • Posted by Ex-Loan Huckster on May 6, 2009 at 4:45pm EDT
  • LF - apologies if that post appeared to be a personal attack - it was not meant that way, yours just happened to be the most recent, topical post. When I hear or read, "consumer protections will apply to these private loans." it is almost always relative to bankruptcy discharge, which is Mr. Collinge's principal grail. In fact Mr. Collinge focuses almost exclusively on the bankruptcy provision in his public speaking appearances, disclosure is a close second, but disclosure on private loans is already covered under Reg Z.
    The point that was missed is that financing of any other consumer item can lead to loss of that item, whether it is an appreciable asset like real estate or a HD TV - the lender can get the asset back. On Student loans the degree can never be taken away, and the life-time value of a degree should not only increase but it should dwarf any other financable item, except possibly real estate. I didn't necessarily understand the implications of educational borrowing either, but I was a high-need kid and went to a well-endowed school on the advice of family and H.S. guidance. Even then I lived a miserly existence almost 9 years after graduating so that I could clear out that debt. That is why I am so opposed to changing the rules, not because I worked in the industry at one time (& was laid off).

  • Posted by lucerne on May 6, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • Education is a human right, it is not to be subjected to "the market," and it is not the place in which to blame poor people for supposedly not being savvy enough to keep themselves from being scammed by big business. And yes, my student loan debt should be forgiven, because I cannot pay it, I don't have a degree, and in the current climate, a degree is worthless anyway as new graduates roughly my age have to compete with older people who have much more experience but have been made unemployed by the current financial crisis. In many European countries, college education and/or vocational training is free for all, and it should be that way in the US as well. Sallie Mae should not be able to collect an extra 90,000$ and ruin someone's life because they left a job without having another one lined up!

  • entrepreneurship
  • Posted by Jessica on May 6, 2009 at 5:15pm EDT
  • Does this mean a person with student loan debt can never be an entrepreneur; never quit a job to pursue a dream?  Imagine a country where the purported 'best and brightest' can only work one joe job after another (with stagnant wages) until the loans are paid off or retirement, whichever comes first.  Does this mean only the most wealthy among us can take a chance?  

  • Student Loans - Trade your Life for a Degree!
  • Posted by Matt on May 6, 2009 at 5:45pm EDT
  • If someone told me several years ago that if I went to college I would not be able to own a home, buy a reliable car, send my children to college, and would be hounded by Sallie Mae until I was about 58, I would have never gone.

     

    I was allowed to borrow over $140,000 all before I was 22. The money was for what I thought was a future for myself and my future children. It was for a small ivory colored piece of paper and a bachelor’s degree. That’s right, I was not studying medicine or law and was still allowed to borrow over $140,000. Now I am a college grad who can barely afford to live. My minimum payment is just around $1,000 a month and I will be paying that for the next 30 years. My wife and I struggle to make the payments but just cannot afford necessities and the cost of my student loans.

     

    I hear horror stories about those who have no choice but to default due to illness or financial hardship and have insurmountable collection fees and interest rates tacked on to already incredible amounts of debt, doubling and tripling the amount owed. Not to mention, have some of the most heartless people trying to collect the debt from them. Some have fled the country and others have taken their own lives just to escape the debt that never goes away. In most cases, wages are garnished and professional licenses are suspended, making it even more impossible to get out of the student debt hole and become a productive American citizen.

     

    Was I naïve and stupid not to know what I was getting into? Yes. Should I have to suffer and have my children suffer for the next 30 years because I made a huge financial mistake as a teenager? As long as Sallie Mae takes advantage of me with high variable interest rates and unrealistic minimum payments, I and others like me, will never get out of student debt. We will not buy homes and live the dreams we had before we went to college. We will live in poverty with collectors harassing us and seizing any money that may come our way.

     

    Student loans are the ONLY loans in our nation’s history to be specifically exempted from bankruptcy protections, truth in lending requirements, statutes of limitations, statue usury laws, and even fair debt collection practices thus creating a state of peonage in a country that claims it is fair to everyone, and everyone is free. Sallie Mae and the financial aid department at my university used predatory lending techniques to lure me into $140,000 of debt. I was put under the impression that borrowing this kind of money was common and the only way for me to get an education and live the life my parents always dreamed for me.

     

    As long as the U.S. government continues to throw taxpayer money at large corporations in an attempt to stabilize the money markets, I would like to humbly suggest that Congress consider the millions of college graduates across the country that are SWAMPED by college loan payments. We are the future of rebuilding this country. We are the middle class. We are the engineers, architects, police, and many others that will make this country great once again, but we cannot do it without help.

  • a recurring theme....
  • Posted by Cato on May 6, 2009 at 5:45pm EDT
  • A recurring theme here in the posts of people who have gotten into trouble (with the exception of Mr. Collinge) seems to be that they (1) came from very limited resources, (2) incurred substantial debt studying in expensive schools or for prolonged periods (or both), (3) majored in fields that almost anyone would have recognized as unlikely to lead to careers in which one would make enough money to pay large loan balances off, and (4) think that somehow they ought to be able to take "meaningful" jobs they think are good for society, but which society is not willing to pay enough for that they can pay off the loans. What's wrong with this picture?

    I guess times change. When I went to college in the old stone age in the 1960s, kids who were first generation college students or who had very limited means were usually pretty career focused. They wanted to get ahead, to make a middle class life for themselves and their families. They studied things like accounting, or business, not art or women's studies. Some became teachers, and teach often had elements of debt forgiveness for service in poor areas. Others had ROTC scholarships, or spent time in the military ahead of college to get GI Bill benefits. Most of these students ended up somewhere in the business world, often with MBAs earned at night or part time while they worked, earning the money to pay the limited loans they had, and to try to build a life for their children which would be more privileged than the ones they led. But, as I said, others became teachers (including professors) or lawyers or doctors. Those without resources who went to medical or dental school often did so through programs in which the military or the public health service paid for their education in exchange for some number of years of service as an officer.

    Most Americans, even young people, even today do not have college educations or degrees. Where is there an entitlement to attend college at someone elses expense? If I were a non-degreed taxpayer -- I think of some of my high school classmates who did not go to college, but run successful farms or businesses -- I would resent the hell out of someone who expected me to pay for him or her to go to a $50,000 a year college to study art history or communications. It wouldn't bother me if some rich parents wanted to pay for their kid to do that, it's their money, after all. But, with my money, I'd say "no way." I'd say, "I'm all for kids going to school to get ahead, but let them study something practical, or something that they'll come out and teach."

    Life isn't fair. People need to be practical. And, I suppose, adults need to be more honest with young people about college educations: who has the ability to do the work at a high level, and what sorts of job prospects graduates will have with particular skill sets. I originally wanted to be an academic, and have the graduate degrees to prove it in two fields, but there were very few jobs available in the mid-1970s. So, after completing my military obligation, I went to law school. I had to make a choice. Life is about making choices. And, the choices we have aren't always the choices we would like to have.

    That said, I suppose I would favor a program that would freeze debt levels for people in hardship situations. Not forgive the debt (someone would have to eat the loss -- who should fairly eat it?), but freeze the principal balance and apply all payments to principal for some period, with some government subsidy of the interest so it would accumulate at a low rate (say 3%) on the unpaid principal without default rates, and then, when the original principal was repaid, capitalize the accrued interest (at the reduced rate) and amortize that over time. I would probably also be willing to stipulate that if someone with this debt were to marry, the debt would never become an obligation of the spouse. It's a compromise, but it's better than the current default trap.

  • Posted by Atana , prof on May 6, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • "The point that was missed is that financing of any other consumer item can lead to loss of that item, whether it is an appreciable asset like real estate or a HD TV - the lender can get the asset back" Ex Loan Huckster

    Actually the points being missed are several. First higher education is not a consumer commodity despite all the quite successful attempts to turn it into a educational cash commodity. To do so is incredibly destructive to the concept of higher education as a social good or means of social elevation. And anyway if we're going to equate higher education to consumer product, well then we've got a 70,000$ plus Pinto. A product which does not work and has a distressing tendency of blowing up on its buyers. With no warranty and seemingly endless payments.
    And if the consumer paradigm is to be used, well then what about the basic consumer rights which this industry has lobbied to have removed?. And they are virtually the only arena of finance and lending which have this privilege. So its an industry which is in a very poor position to defend it's detrimental effect within either free market forces or with comparison to other lenders.
    Additionally these lenders are a fairly new phenomenon which only really began with the privatization of what had been governmental venue. The lenders should not have such massive control over an 'asset' which they did not create nor contribute to in any truthfully constructive manner. Attempts to defend their actions because they provide the money, run into the problems that prior to their ascendancy academe and government did fund functionally, and in other countries their systems work quite well without the presence of these corporations.
    If we are going to look at education as an asset, the ones who provide that asset that are the teaching faculty, and support staff at the colleges. The loan providers are little more than a macro-parasitic phenomenon layered onto that asset. One which many faculty are increasingly beginning to resent, because of the undue and detrimental influence they have over the systemic credibility of academe.
    And the whole concept that education can be viewed as a lifelong asset to which these lenders have a right to access is quite disturbing. Other forms of lending do have a statutory limits. The attempt by the edudebt corporations to claim they have a lifelong right to 'their product' has two problems. First it has a haunting equivalency to the old sharecropper contracts. And second they do not produce this 'product'-at best these lenders have become an unnecessary and potentially destructive or even terminal element within our educational system.

  • What choices for the middle class?
  • Posted by Sorceress9 on May 6, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • In this day and age, it seems that all employers are looking for that piece of paper. No degree, no job. My daughter graduated from high school where she spent half of every day in a culinary arts program for 3 years. Her dream is to become a pastry chef, so we go looking at culinary schools. Each one is about as expensive as the other. She chooses the one that she feels will give her the best education and therefore, the best chance at a good job. The problem? We are talking about almost $50,000.00 for a 2-year degree! That is outrageous!

    What are her choices at this point?
    1) Give up on the one thing that she loves and wants to do with her life and doom herself to a life of "flipping burgers" and scratching to get by.
    2) Go to school, get the coveted piece of paper everyone is looking for, and hope for the best.

    I encouraged her to go ahead with her plans...get her education. After 3 terms of classes, she externed at a bakery as a required part of the schooling while the school charged her $8500.00 for that 4-month "term". The job paid $8/hr. Shortly after her externship ended, she was let go due to lack of work. She picked up another job at a bakery paying $7.50/hr. How can these school charge ridiculous rates? Touting 98% placement rates in good paying jobs, they convince students and parents alike that this is a necessary investment. Now, she is saddled with a huge debt with outrageous interest rates and minimum monthly payments for the next 30 years!

    The government could step in and at least give our children, our future leaders, a chance by setting mandatory low interest rates on all student loans. In addition, a better use for the billions thrown away on bail-outs would be to make grants and scholorships available to middle class familes. My daughter was penalized because we are are a hard-working middle class family that pays our bills and still are able to put food on the table. There were no government grants for her. If she had been an immigrant, or if we were eating out of trash cans, she would have been able to get an education for free or at least little cost to her. What message are we sending to our youth?

  • Let's face it.....18 year olds aren't very savvy
  • Posted by Adrienne on May 6, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • I was lucky in that I had parents who advised me my whole life not to graduate with a mountain of debt.....they both had trouble finding steady work at first after college (they're both teachers, like I eventually became) and knew it would be hard enough to pay for basic living expenses let alone hundreds and hundreds of dollars every month in student loan payment. But what if you don't have business-smart parents? My husband had a huge amount of musical talent and parents without a lot of common sense which translates into a disaster waiting to happen to a starry eyed 18 year old wanting to go to the "best" music schools, all schools that cost upwards of 20K a year and don't offer scholarships anymore, need based or otherwise, just "financial aid packages." Maybe a school can justify charging a law student 75K for a law degree and making them finance the whole thing on credit; to do it to an 18 year old musician is just plain mean. A lot of people who are older just don't get it yet-EVERYONE goes to college now so it doesn't mean as much. I've heard adults advise their teenagers to take out loans to go to places like Reed College to major in English or NYU to major in musical theater. It's nice to support your kid's dream to a point....just don't support them all the way to a prison of debt and regret that'll make them wish they never signed up for those darn piano lessons to begin with.

  • Deceptive universities
  • Posted by sb on May 6, 2009 at 10:00pm EDT
  • I'd like to point out that there is another scam that is inducing students to take out extraordinary amounts of loans under predatory terms and interest rates: misleading job prospect statistics.

    I went to a law school that claims an "average starting salary" of almost $110,000. However, this is misleading because a select few students earn a huge amount of money in large firms, often $135,000 + bonuses, while everyone else scrapes by on about 35-60k/year.

    http://www.nalp.org/anotherpicture

    As you can see, the "average" is meaningless in the context of a bi-modal salary distribution.

    People take out huge loans because the law schools state that graduates can make enough money to pay back those loans.

    The law schools and the law school deans who publish their misleading stats are as much to blame for the law school loan scam as the loan companies themselves. They deserve to be prosecuted by the State Attorneys General and disbarred for unethical conduct.

  • Posted by Jordan Bramlett , Unemployed on May 7, 2009 at 5:30am EDT
  • Like many first generation college students, from the time I was young, my well-meaning parents taught that I must graduate college at any expense. I now wish I would have never heeded their advice. I took out 60k in debt and now I'm unemployed and in default. In less than three years, my loans have increased $20,000 due to fees, penalties and recapitalization.

    My lender, EFP, which is now under investigation by the NY Attorney General, sold my loan to AES which does not allow in-school deferments or hardship deferments and they raised my interest rate to 11.5% from 6.7%. 

    The original loan contract clearly stated that if I went back to school, such as graduate school or law school, I would be allowed an in-school deferment. But now that EFP has filed for bankruptcy and sold my loan to AES, I am legally beholden to AES' terms and conditions. THERE ARE NO CONSUMER PROTECTIONS FOR STUDENT LOANS! 

    If I could go back, I would have just gotten a job and not bothered with college. At least then I wouldn't have a levy on my bank account and ruined credit. I can't even get approved for a studio apartment in Brooklyn.

    One more thing. All these life-time earnings projections of college graduates earning more than non-graduates are outdated and apply only to the pre 90's generation. The matrixes used to no longer apply to the current job market and economy. 

  • Seeking debt counseling is not a sign of failure
  • Posted by janejim , Seeking debt counseling is not a sign of failure at janejim on May 7, 2009 at 5:30am EDT
  • Banks have huge debts, but they're getting a helping hand from the federal government. If you have overwhelming debt--perhaps from bad investments, or maybe a job loss, a medical crisis or just plain overspending--you're probably on your own. Check the website http://obamadebthelp2009.blogspot.com
    to see if they can help. I am glad I did read it before I talk to my CC company and it helped - Jane Jim, California

  • Posted by Cato on May 7, 2009 at 6:15am EDT
  • sb: This is not rocket science. The dual nature of the market for law school graduates has been known for a very long time, the link you cite above to the contrary notwithstanding. I've certainly been giving advice consistent with it - see my post above - for the better part of 30 years: take on no debt except at a top tier law school. The same is true for business school, though perhaps less so. Certainly, it's not in the school's interest to give you the sort of a breakdown that the curve in the link provided. But, would you have believed it if they had? Many students to go lower tier law schools thinking they will be at the top of the class. But, reality intrudes, and only 1% can be in the top 1%. One should weigh one's prospects rationally based on ones relative LSAT scores to the rest of the class, together with a realistic assessment of one's undergraduate preparation, motivation, and study habits. I recall in law school seeing people get grades in the 70s (C's) for the first time in the lives. But, there they were with LSAT scores at the median for the law school, competing with others who were hard-working and motivated. Unless one has an LSAT score in the top 5-10% for the law school attended, and have done very well in a tough undergraduate major at a college with high standards, you can't realistically expect to be law review or Coif material. When I began practicing in a major Wall Street firm, there were no beginning associates from other than top 15 law schools, most were flagship law review editors, and all other than minorities had LSAT scores in the top 5%.

    lucerne: It's all very well to spout such twaddle, and even to believe it. However, neither it nor you will be taken seriously by anyone who will be involved in solving the very real problem of financing higher education. The taxpayers are not going to do it, other than to continue in the ways they have traditionally through providing heavily subsidized public colleges at all levels from community colleges to (in a few states) world class research universities where state residents can get an education at below market rates, and through limited grants and loans. The taxpayers will never subsidize significant numbers to attend expensive private universities, to study anything the subsidized please.

    I remember how, in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the climate of support for higher education changed in California. Where as late as 1964, the University of California could basically count on the legislature providing whatever it reasonably asked for, within less than 10 years, the climate turned hostile as a result of perceived radicalism at UC, with the taxpayers increasingly supporting using money for the state colleges (now state universities) which were (correctly at the time with some exceptions like San Francisco State) perceived as catering to less 'spoiled' students and more concerned with getting a practical eduation.

  • Posted by Paual on May 7, 2009 at 11:15am EDT
  • Where else are you not legally allowed to refinance a loan. Only with student loans has the gov't stepped in and declared that you CANNOT refinance to a lower interest rate, regardless if there is a bank that would approve you.

    We are paying 9% in interest. We have had innumerable offers to refinance at 3%, but because we consolidated our student loans we could not take adavntge of that offer. So all of you that refinanced your mortgages from 10% or more and are now paying 6% interest or less, how would you have felt if you were not legally allowed to do that?? This is not a case of a bank not willing to do it, it is against the law for ME and many others to pay a lower interest rate.

    This is not about personal responsibility, it is about getting the same rights as others.

  • and where are the parents
  • Posted by Yoki on May 7, 2009 at 12:15pm EDT
  • Duh, and why are aid officers supposed to be parents? Where are the parents here... they let their kids sign for loans because they either couldn't pay or wouldn't pay... Parents today have never said NO to their kids... they aren't going to stop now so they let their kids sign for loans. They didn't save- maybe couldn't... but they are to blame for not acting like good parents and helpng the kids see that they are getting into debt they may not be able to repay... It's not the Aid officers job to play parents and be the first to say, NO.

  • Captain Obvious
  • Posted by Ex-Loan Huckster on May 7, 2009 at 12:15pm EDT
  • Paual -- Surely if you have read any of the materials on those offers, you are aware that student loan consolidation features a calculated interest rate based on the weighted average of loans being consolidated (when it was available - you can thank CCRA for wiping out this option). So if you already consolidated your loans, and the interest rate is 9%, how exactly would you consolidate new loans into that note and result in a rate near 3%? Even if you had new loans to consolidate, they would need to be at interest near 1%, and twice as large as the 9% loan, to get your weighted rate down to 3%.

    Mortgage companies offer refinancing at lower rates, because there is an underlying asset to secure the notes. There is no such security on an education loan, so there is no way that the pricing can get better! Even the Government knows this that's why FDLP won't do it.

  • About the student loans...
  • Posted by Angela , Student Loan.... on May 7, 2009 at 7:15pm EDT
  • I have been in the same situation as most ,although,i took out a loan with the Department of Education in 1995,in approximately May, in August i had found out from my dr that i was pregnate ,with a high-risk pregnacy,that required me to stop working and going to school,i took the information into the college where i was attending for accounting ,and explained to the adminstrator that i was unable to finish school because of the pregnacy,the child had a heart condition,called tetrology of fallot.After he was born in 1996, he had to have his first open heart on October 23 1996,i explained everything to the school,and thought that they had taken care of it ,until i was reached from the department of education,they told that i was in default of my student loan,which i did not even know what that meant at the time,shortly after that they had sent it to collection,and 14 years later it sits at a collection agency with a balance of 13,758.00 dollars on it ...started out at 6759.00 dollars. i have explained and explained to the school,to the collections to almost everyone about this matter ,but nobody at any of these places wants to listen,i have even ask them to take me to court over this matter so the doctor could be supeoned into court on this ,BUT...the down fall is ,there are no attorneys that wants to take on the Department Of Education,isnt that so funny,,hmmmmm ..if this was you ,how would you handle this ?

  • Student loans consumer protection should be restored.
  • Posted by Cameron on May 8, 2009 at 5:00am EDT
  • I decided to take the plunge and try to improve my life with a college education. I went to a good school, and I did get a good education in my field, I believe. The problem is I graduated into a massive recession with over $100, 000 in debt to private loan institutions with gigantic interest rates. It turns out that my decision to try to improve my life has left me an indentured servant for life with little to no hope of ever owning a home or even starting a family. Nobody really wants to declare bankruptcy. It's an awful situation to face, but why is it that student loans are the ONLY thing that is not allowed basic consumer bankruptcy protections? Is this fair? This issue is far more serious and widespread than some may imagine. We are really putting our young people in an enormous bind which will discourage higher education, and leave those who strive for it in a lifetime of horrible debt. Please right to your Senators and Congressmen/women, and demand that student loan consumer protections be restored immediately. Thank you.

  • Posted by UK scholar on May 9, 2009 at 1:15pm EDT
  • First off, I can't see anything like the UK system of student loan repayments tied to income, with interest only at the rate of inflation working in the US. This is effectively a very large government subsidy, even for the small amounts UK students can borrow through this. The government's now realising that it doesn't really have the money for this, so I can't see the system sticking around unchanged for too much longer.

    There are a number of factors, however, that astonish me about what I've read here of the current US system:
    a) The initial high interest rate of the loans - even though they are distinctly more secure for companies than any other non-mortgage debt (and given what's been happening to house prices, possibly than mortgage debt.)
    b) The incredibly high costs of default, leading to rapidly escalating loans.
    c) The difficulty / impossibility of refinancing to enable this debt to be paid off.
    d) The very large amounts that will be lent to 18-year-olds, with no idea of how they will repay, because the loans are so secure it doesn't matter if they don't repay.
    e) The lack of clarity in a lot of the financial education and loan information

    To some extent the bankruptcy issue seems like a red herring. Most of the contributors on here with debt seem to have been saying that they mainly ask for someway to stop their debts spiraling, and to work out a payment plan that is affordable but will eventually leave them debt free. They're looking to take responsibility for their situation and do something about it, but current regulations make this impossible. If there is some way to guarantee these protections without re-establishing bankruptcy arrangements, then that would go a long part of the way to helping alleviate this problem. Bankruptcy arrangements feature so heavily in the interview largely as a way to help secure the other protections. If there is no other way of insuring reasonable behavior by lenders,then bankruptcy needs to be a possibility.

    There surely has to be a cap on the level of debt covered under this scheme as well. This is a figure pulled out of thin air, but maybe $50,000? Then if companies wished to offer loans to say prospective lawyers or doctors who they thought would be good investments, they could make them under the same terms as other commercial loans - with the financial companies bearing the risk of default. As it is, nobody cares that they know the loans can never be repaid, so it seems to be a system based around duping teenagers whose parents don't have enough financial experience to help them.

  • Take advantage of what's already offered
  • Posted by Jae on May 12, 2009 at 4:15pm EDT
  • I have sympathy for people with large educational loan debt - I have a lot myself. But the government already offers an income-contingent repayment program which caps the loan payment at 20% of AGI minus poverty level and cancels remaining debt after 25 years.

    Starting July 1, income-based repayment will be offered, which caps loan payments at 15% of AGI minus 150% of poverty level, with cancellation after 25 years, or after 10 years if one works for the government or a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt non-profit.

    Either of these options make federal student loan debt manageable and ensure that borrowers make at least some payments on their loans. Mr. Collinge would have been able to manage, even flipping burgers, if he had taken advantage of the options available. In fact, he can still take advantage of those options and should do so.

  • Posted by Derek on May 12, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • It seems to me like some people who work for loan companies have gotten involved with this one.

    Let me be as frank as I can... this April 50,000 people graduated from law school. The average debt load is probably around 70k... with many many of those people over 100k. There are very few jobs out there. There are already tens of thousands of lawyers out of work.

    Law schools and professional schools have become a scam really. These so called TTT low tier law schools are graduating thousands of people who really can't get a job. The market is flooded. People from top tier schools are having trouble finding jobs. The lower tiers are just doomed really. And the weekend MBA schools are just as bad.

    At best people who graduate and can't find work can get a deferment. Then what pay 400-500 dollars a month for 25 years? You mean we have a generation that gets out of college and pays off student loans for 25 years instead of buying a house or having kids. When they turn 50 they aren't selling that old house that just got paid off and upgrading into something new. Instead they are just getting ready to start saving up on the first home. And you people seriously believe our housing market is going to recover? Give me a break. The US has bred a generation of debt.

    My own situation is much worse. I was a public defender for several years and basically had a nervous break down. I dropped out of sight for about 6 months just to get myself straightened out. I did get my head straight... only to find that I was in loan default and that 30k in penalties and fees had been added to the bill. So instead of 100k in debt, I had about 130k. I tried to cure the default, but even though I made 9 months of payments the student loan company sold my debt and the default never did cure. I ended up with a new collection company demanding 130k all at once.

    My own fault ? Partly sure, although I think some blame goes on to the system which takes inexperienced public defenders, hands them murder cases and tells them good luck. To me the government is partly to blame for this kind of situation. I also think the loan company is partly to blame for pushing me into default ASAP and then not honoring their promise to cure the default.

    Now that I am a defaulter I can't get a government job. So my income potential is shot. I'll probably be disbarred. But I'll still be deep in debt. I can't qualify for the so called 10 year debt forgiveness, because you can't do that if you are in default. You have to be in good standing with your current lender first (which apparently I can't do). You can't even join the peace corps if you are in default.....

    To be honest, the only hope I have for a normal life is to leave the country and work over seas. I can't stay here and work as a school teacher or shit lawyer making low income and have the government take 15-20 percent of it for the rest of my life. I just can't do that. I owe it to my future children to provide a better life for them than that. And that means that I have to seriously consider building that life for them in another country.

  • Excellent Article/Interview
  • Posted by Antoinette C. Corbin on May 12, 2009 at 10:15pm EDT
  • This is an excellent, very informative article, very well articulated. As one who fell victim to pradatory student lending practices, I applaud Alan's efforts to bring more attention, and possibly reform, to the student loan industry. We student borrowers are basically indentured servants; Alan's book and articles such as this one are the first steps on our path to freedom. I'm so glad to see someone bringing our stories to the forefront, making the public aware of the fact that a majority of student borrowers are not deadbeats trying to escape payment, but are citizens who are trapped by insurmountable debt incurred during a period when they were in need of funds to complete their education. I applaud this article, and look forward to more.

  • Another Doctorate Dead
  • Posted by kgotthardt on May 13, 2009 at 9:30am EDT
  • Jae, according to the information on Sallie Mae, someone like me would not qualify for the new income-contingent plan because our loans will not be grandfathered. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

    DeathofaDoctorate describes a situation I relate to. While I would not have been eligible for a fellowship because of the way my program was structured, I also was booted out of a PhD program not because of disciplinary or academic problems, but because I dared to speak out against the school and take my complaints through the rank and command, all the way to the top and beyond. I provided documentation for every allegation I made.

    I am posting a letter I wrote to then Congressman Tom Davis. I apologize for the length, but I think it's crucial readers know the full story.

    Some of you will never believe what follows because it seems so unbelievable.

    Alas, we live in a surreal world.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    **Tom Davis
    Annandale District Office
    4115 Annandale Road, Suite 103
    Annandale, VA 22003

    May 28, 2007

    I am writing regarding the mishaps with my student loans that began in the year 2000. I began my program with Union Institute and University in Washington D.C. at UIU's "Office for Social Responsibility" (1710 Rhode Island Ave. NW #110) and at the Governor’s House Hotel (1615 Rhode Island Ave.) which were clearly noted as sites in their student handbook/program overview, a book describing what they termed their "low-residency" Doctoral program. A series of events and complaints have transpired from the time I enrolled to this point, so I will recap.

    The History: Within the first year of my enrollment, I experienced difficulties completing my program in their system. This delay was due to my committee Chair who refused to work with other instructors, an administration that delayed in signing off on paperwork, and delays in arranging meetings with committee members across the country, ALL out of the my control. In addition, my Chair referred to academic benchmarks and financial aid deadlines as “artifacts of external pressure,” meaning I should disregard them as she obviously did. I was not the only one experiencing these delays; they were a constant source of complaints among students.

    As the school delayed my progress, they continued to charge full tuition (about $15,000 per year plus materials, travel, etc.). I attempted to resolve these issues at the instructor, school, and administrative levels with no results, all the while the school was collecting my loan monies. The lack of response forced me to file complaints through various agencies including the U.S. Department of Education.

    While still enrolled in the program, I heard back from the D.C. Office of Regulatory Affairs and was told both verbally and in writing that the school did not have a license to operate in Washington, D.C. (see enclosed email). The school "administratively withdrew" me when I brought up the licensure problem. The school then closed all sites that were unlicensed, more than 15 across the country.

    My administrative withdrawal was a clear case of retaliation. In fact, I went to an attorney who stated, "they were clearing the decks of liability." When the attorney attempted to have me reinstated, the school said that based on the DOE review, the program had changed, that I would have to start again and pay all over again. I have no transcript with which I can transfer or that I can use on my resume, and the school never offered a plan to make my program work reasonably or efficiently.

    The Department of Education indicated (see letter) that they do not have authority over the school’s program and basically decided to view it as an “academic” issue. However, the DOE permitted the school to disburse Title IV funds to students attending unlicensed sites, even though to qualify for Title IV, the Higher Education Act clearly reads that the school must be in compliance with State and local law. Obviously, schools with unlicensed sites are not in compliance with State and local law, and therefore, should not be able to disburse Title IV funds for that school’s programs.

    The accreditation agency wanted more information on the school’s program but indicated it could do nothing for me regarding tuition paid (see enclosed letter). And of course, Sallie Mae has reaped the benefits as the lender and has refused to discharge the loan. The buck has essentially passed from agency to agency, and I have been left with the debt and nothing to show for it.

    Current: As a result of student complaints, between 2000 and 2003, the Department of Education investigated the University (headquartered in Cincinnati), and in April of 2003, froze their Title IV funding until audits/changes were completed. In addition, UIU's Ohio Board of Regents placed UIU on "Provisional" status for re-authorization, and the accreditation agency, NCA, investigated their operations. UIU is in the process of selling off their Vermont campus, and they have since changed their program policies and descriptions, including the way they structure billing and financial aid. Students currently enrolled must go through the Ohio Board of Regents in order to graduate (indicating significant changes in oversight and curriculum soon after I was “withdrawn”).

    My student loans from UIU now total more than $50,000 for the 2.5 years in which I was enrolled (2000-2002). UIU authorized these loans knowing they were not licensed in D.C. which essentially meant I was left with no consumer protection after trying to resolve the issues because from the perspective of the various agencies, including the D.C. Office of Regulatory Affairs, the place never existed.

    My complaints from 2000 to present have included a history of my program, the school's unwillingness to provide a viable learning experience, and their breaching of regulations in any number of areas including civil rights, academic requirements, and business practices. I provided proof of these violations, as did other students, and since the school has had to make changes and had actions taken against them, we can assume the complaints and allegations were valid. This does not help my situation, nor have the agencies involved.

    Right now, I am in a period of forbearance. The interest on the loans continues to accrue. More than half of my outstanding loans are for the program at Union.

    Prior to this, I was an “A” student. I have never had an academic issue or problems completing my programs of study. I hold an M.Ed. and work as a contract distance education teacher for a private college and for my county. I have two elementary, school aged children, both of whom have special (cognitive) needs.

    I have written to every agency and representative I could research. I cannot afford to retain an attorney. I hope this current trend in legislation and your assistance will rectify this situation. Thank you for your time.

    Sincerely,

    Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

  • Unfair
  • Posted by DKH on May 20, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
  • First of all, I'd like to take issue with several commenters that have extolled the virtues of hard work, buckling down, getting realistic, not whining, knowing what you got into, accepting your fate, blah blah blah, ad nauseum. I dare any one of you to sit down with me and look me straight in the eye and tell me that I'm lazy and don't deserve the consumer protections enjoyed by anyone who has taken out a loan for anything besides furthering his or her education. I owe about $55,000, and I try to make payments of $1,000 a month. Because I consolidated my loans at 8.125% a few years ago, when I was unemployed and in terrible financial condition, that rate is now fixed for the entire life of the loan. I have a job, good credit, a solid payment history, and all the qualities of a good borrower, but because my loan happens to be for my education rather than some subprime McMansion, gas-guzzler SUV, flat-screen TV, boat, you name it, I cannot, by law, refinance and get a better rate on my loan, so only about half of that $1,000 that I pay toward my loan every month actually goes toward the principal.

    I don't want my loan written off. I'm not asking for any special dispensation or shirking my responsibilities. I just want the same rights as any other consumer, and I want to be able to pay off this loan with some end in sight.

  • Are we a nation of whiners???
  • Posted by Maybe Phil Gramm was right on May 21, 2009 at 10:00am EDT
  • Wow. I read all the posts to this article and most of them are like something off a Jerry Springer show. Each one trying to outdo the next. Be careful of what you wish for, as restrictions are put into place on lenders, we may all find ourselves with little to no access to credit. (unless you are already rich and don't need it) Life in a cash and carry America will be a vastly different kind of place. Maybe better. Here are my observations...

    We have the opportunity to attend they post-secondary school of our choice (provided you can meet the admission standards)

    Generally speaking, College Costs Too Much.

    According to a recent Chronicle article, only 8% of students fall into the excessive debt catagory.

    Students don't read the disclosures they get now - they don't pay attention at entrance or exit counseling. What are colleges and lenders supposed to do?

    Most College's don't disclose the outcomes of their graduates to potential students. (some for profits do) How can a student make a valid decision about debt without that information?

    Colleges aren't going to tell students "you can't afford to come to our school"

    Americans want what they want, when they want it and are willing to take on any amount of debt to get what they want.

    Unlike a house or car, you can't take back an education as part of bankruptcy proceedings. (Medical related bankruptcy should be treated differently and all student loans discharged)

    Until we all (colleges, lenders and students) come clean on our responsibilities: Buyer Beware

  • Student Loans = Biggest Scam
  • Posted by Jesse at Eckerd College on June 6, 2009 at 6:30am EDT
  • Wow, Mr. Collidge speaks only truth here. How is it possible that in America of all places, loans that are made for our citizen's very educations (as opposed to flipping houses, second cars etc...) are the only loans missing standard consumer protections.

    I'm a recent graduate who has been unable to get a job with my pricey business degree. The fact that tuition has on average been more than double our national inflation for the past 3 decades really puts things in perspective. Something is fundamentally wrong with our current system. This is no longer a true free market by a long stretch.

  • The Heart of the Truth
  • Posted by Jaelle on June 13, 2009 at 6:15pm EDT
  • Thank you for this article. Alan Collinge has gone to the heart of the truth about student loans. In the beginning student loans were a good idea. Students up and down the economic ladder could now attend college which at the time seemed like a good idea. But year after year, changes in policies lead to misinformation being given to students and changes in lending institutions led to corruption, intended and uninteded.

    My story is similar to Collinge's. I was a mother of 3 that just divorced and left my half of our business. I borrowed $34,000 to receive my Bachelor's and Master's. I took teaching positions that paid in the low $30,000s. I decided that to make my education pay, I needed the PhD. I went back to college at the University of Washington, assured by not one, but 5 different Sallie Mae representatives that interest would not accrue because I would be in college. Alas, my debt did accrue interest and at the end of my second year in my PhD program, my debt that was now $51,000. Needless to say, I had to drop out of my PhD program and get this accruing interest stopped.

    My story continues, Salley Mae wouldn't work with me. Managers refused to talk to me. I could only talk with uninformed representatives that knew less than I did about loans. I have talked with the Department of Education ombudsmen that are meant to help, well meaning folks, that couldn't answer my questions or that gave me conflicting information from one call to the next.

    The economy has created cut backs in many insitutions of higher learning. I was laid off 2 years ago and have either been unemployed or underemployed since then. I will be 85 before my debt is repaid if I pay $500 a month starting tomorrow.

    I've paid off over $30,000 of my $34,000 loan. Today, I owe a little over $70,000. There is no known recourse. Although I have contacted a lawyer that tells me he has found the error that was made way back when. But who can afford a lawyer right now?

    The US government has helped the mighty corporations who went belly up due to their own business decisions...and that have CEOs that still fly their private jets. Seems to me that student loan forgiveness for students that have been duped by the lending institutions, sold out by their own government, and live under constant stress of not having the ability to pay off their debt is not just fair but would actually be the one thing that would stimulate this economy.

    We're all in this together.

  • Trying to understand
  • Posted by Robin , RN on August 16, 2009 at 8:45am EDT