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Anti-Gay Scholar Rejects NYU

July 24, 2009

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Thio Li-ann won't be coming to New York University this fall after all.

Thio, a professor at the National University of Singapore and a politician in her home country as well, was to have taught a course on human rights law as part of an NYU program that brings scholars from around the world to teach at the law school. But in recent weeks, as students and others have circulated information about her anti-gay statements, some have questioned whether it was appropriate for NYU to hire someone with limited views of human rights to teach the subject. But NYU has defended the hire on academic freedom grounds, and Thio indicated that she was looking forward to debating the issues while teaching on the campus.

Not anymore. While NYU has not changed its position, its law dean issued a statement in which he announced that Thio has decided not to come to NYU. "She explained that she was disappointed by what she called the atmosphere of hostility by some members of our community towards her views and by the low enrollments in her classes," wrote Dean Richard L. Revesz.

In response to a request for comment on the situation, Thio sent Inside Higher Ed her resignation letter to NYU. "As an Asian woman whose legal training has spanned the finest institutions in both East and West, I believe I would have something of value to offer your students. However, the conditions no longer exist to proceed with the visit, given the animus fueled by irresponsible misrepresentation/distortions and/or concerted invective from certain parties. Friends and colleagues have also expressed serious concerns about my safety and well-being."

Thio praised NYU for standing by the job offer, and blamed the critics for making it difficult for her to accept. "I understand that you, too, have been under great pressure to rescind the invitation. I appreciate the commitment NYU has shown towards the principle of academic freedom in resisting this pressure; to yield to politicking would be deleterious to the academic enterprise. Today's heresy can become tomorrow's orthodoxy and vice versa," she wrote to the dean. "Despite this, it has become clear that the fraught atmosphere of hostility towards me is inimical to an effective teaching and learning environment. As you know, the ireful campaign against me has negatively affected class enrollment, a sad commentary on this present noisome state of affairs."

In his statement, Dean Revesz answered one of the questions many have been asking when he said that NYU was unaware of Thio's anti-gay statements when she was hired. But he went on to say that the university makes a practice of not looking for such statements (even her critics say Thio has made no effort to hide her views), and that they wouldn't have changed the hiring decision.

"Of course, an electronic search of her public statements would have produced the text of [an anti-gay speech much cited by critics]," he wrote. "We did not conduct such a search in considering this appointment, and we have not conducted such searches in considering other appointments: We limit our inquiry to the review of academic publications and works in progress, teaching evaluations, and reputation for collegiality. That is the general norm at academic institutions."

The text of the speech becomes important, her critics have said, because it shows her not just to be someone who doesn't endorse gay rights, but someone who espouses views that in some cases have been widely repudiated by scholars (that people can change sexual orientation if they want) and that run counter to what most human rights groups consider basic human rights (she argues for criminalizing sex between people of the same sex). In addition, she has repeatedly mocked gay people, saying for example that anal sex is "like shoving a straw up your nose to drink," and rejected arguments based on a diversity of sexual orientations by saying that "diversity is not license for perversity."

In some disputes over hiring controversial faculty members who are viewed as bigoted, student groups have demanded that individuals be dismissed or not hired in the first place. In this case, however, NYU OUTlaw, the gay student group that spread word of Thio's views, didn't demand that she be kept off campus. The group's board adopted a statement saying that the best way "to fight Dr. Thio's offensive views not by silencing her but by engaging in a respectful and productive dialogue about the boundaries of human rights. This fall, we plan to hold events to explore issues of academic freedom, LGBT rights, and human rights in Asia, and we look forward to Dr. Thio’s participation in the discussion."

Others, however, have called for NYU to withdraw the invitation to Thio. Hundreds have signed an online petition that says she shouldn't be at NYU. "To harbor Dr. Thio under the banner of 'academic freedom' is disingenuous, untenable and unacceptable. The full dignity of LGBT persons is beyond debate and the criminalization of private sexual conduct between consenting same-sex adults is a tool of oppression. While Dr. Thio believes that 'diversity is not a license for perversity,' we believe that academic freedom is not a license for bigotry," says the text of the petition.

In his statement, Revesz wrote that the situation changed for Thio as the controversy continued. E-mail exchanges between NYU students and Thio offended those on both sides of the debate, he wrote.

"In the last few weeks, a number of members of our community wrote to Professor Thio indicating their objection to her appointment as a visiting professor," he wrote. "She considers some of these messages to be offensive. In turn, she replied to them in a manner that many members of our community -- myself included -- consider offensive and hurtful.... Members of our community have questioned whether Professor Thio's statements create an unwelcoming atmosphere, one in which students in her classes would have been unable to participate effectively in the learning experience. Determination of where that point is on the continuum of free speech is a difficult, case-by-case judgment based upon context, history of the relationship, and many other factors. But it would be an extraordinary measure, almost never taken by universities in the United States, to cancel a course on the basis of e-mail exchanges between a faculty member and members of the student body. To do so would eviscerate the concept of academic freedom and chill student-faculty debate."

Revesz also rejected the idea that a scholar "opposed to the recognition of certain important human rights" should be disqualified from teaching a course on human rights: "An academic's views on a substantive issue should be irrelevant to his or her suitability to teach a course in a particular area as long as the opposing views are treated fairly in the classroom: A proponent or opponent of the death penalty can be equally qualified to lead a seminar on capital punishment, for example. The contrary position would be a serious affront to academic freedom, would lead to endless political litmus tests, and would greatly impoverish academic institutions, which gain so much from the robust discussion of controversial legal issues."

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Comments on Anti-Gay Scholar Rejects NYU

  • Anti-Gay Scholar Rejects NYU
  • Posted by George Hoemann , Assistant Dean at University of Tennessee on July 24, 2009 at 7:00am EDT
  • While I'm fully aware of the need to protect academic freedom -- even when most if not all of the intended audience find the views of academician deplorable -- the *insult* here was to hire some to teach about *human rights* while forcefully and enthusiastically espousing anti-human rights stances regarding LGBT people. I do not blame Professor Thio for holding her views as much as NYU Law School for its complete lack of due diligence. Just substitute "African American" or "Hispanic" or "Women" -- or "Asian" -- in Professor Thio's stated views, and there is no doubt that NYU would have never considered such an appointment. Dean Revesz's comparison to hiring adocoates (or opponents) to lead a seminar on the death penalty is, of course, totally off the mark and, in itself, insulting to people who, as a class, are fighting for equal treatment under the law -- something that Dean Revesz might want to meditate upon, but in his pristine academic way, I have no idea whether he will be meditating "for" or "against" the concept.

  • What's truly "inimical to...teaching and learning"?
  • Posted by subterraneanne on July 24, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • It would seem to me that her belief in the criminalization of gay sex may well be "inimical to an effective teaching and learning environment", not campus opposition to her opinions. How does one teach effectively when one believes some of one's students to be criminals? More important, how can gay students learn in that environment?

  • The choices we make
  • Posted by ACF on July 24, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • George Hoemann,

    "African American" or "Hispanic" or "Women" -- or "Asian" are not lifestyles and not life choices.

    Apparently, Dr. Thio has opinions about the lifestyles people choose.

    ACF

  • Posted by mpp141 on July 24, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • I too, am for academic freedom, and it is unfortunate and wrong that she had feared for her safety. To me, the most powerful statement is the low enrollment for her classes. It sends the message loud and clear. She has the right to her views, but students have every right to choose not to learn from her.

  • Uniformity of thought
  • Posted by Pamela on July 24, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • I continue to be alarmed by the trend toward uniformity of thought that persists on college campuses. Why would a student want a professor to know anything about private, personal behavior? When laws are written to give the preferences of the individual precedence over the preferences of society at large, we take another step toward the society described in Fahrenheidt 451 where all conversations are reduced to banalities.

  • You can't fire me, I quit.
  • Posted by Henry Collier , Research Fellow at University of Wollongong on July 24, 2009 at 11:00am EDT
  • Even a limited and surface examination of Thio's speeches and writing would have disclosed her homophobic beliefs. NYU would not hire Joseph Goebbels to teach Jewish History or Saddam to teach Principles of Democratic Governments. Thio's actions against equal rights for LBGT people are legend in Singapore. Her role in the fiasco in AWARE could not have been considered in her original appointment. Sometimes the wheels turn slowly in academia, but they did turn in this case.

  • Posted by Cato on July 24, 2009 at 11:00am EDT
  • "How does one teach effectively when one believes some of one's students to be criminals?"

    Well, I believe many of my students to be criminals (underage drinkers, illegal downloaders, speeders, pot-smoakers), and I still manage to teach them. What you really mean is "how dare she think differently than the proscribed liberal orthodoxy?"

  • Posted by mpp141 on July 24, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • "African American" or "Hispanic" or "Women" -- or "Asian" are not lifestyles and not life choices.

    Apparently, Dr. Thio has opinions about the lifestyles people choose.

    ACF

    This assertion that sexual idenitty represents a "lifestyle choice" is inconsistent with social science research. The American Psychological Association has stated several times that homosexuality is a normal variant of heterosexuality, and a embedded identity. In one of Dr. Thio's statements, she asserted that homosexuality represented a gender identity disorder. This is just plain wrong. The American Psychiatric Association has also been crystal clear in its position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder. Academic freedom is one thing, but I hope that people are not attempting to teach things that are simply not supported by science.

  • Not taking the heat
  • Posted by Fred , Retired at Northeastern Illinois University on July 24, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • I am not sure what students wrote, but Thio didn't want to come to a campus with a "hostile" attitude. Hostility should be the name of the game at a university. We should debate everything, so when she comes with an opinion she needs to expect a "warm" reception. The most important question is "Why?" followed by "Are you insane?" We need nutcases who deny the Holocaust, claim African Americans are genetically inferior, or the Earth is flat. If we don't yell back and forth these wacko views remain hidden. So, Thio, if you believe them, be willing to go to Washington Square and espouse your views, or at least spew them on a campus.

  • so much for intellectual and cultural diversity
  • Posted by Clayton E. Cramer , Independent Scholar on July 24, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • I'm disappointed but not surprised. Homosexuals exercise a level of control over universities that is astonishing. How many other groups get to veto a different point of view simply by their willingness to use threats of violence? Look at the violence and intimidation used against people who made contributions to Proposition 8 in California. McCarthyism is alive and well on college campuses.

  • Posted by adjunct on July 24, 2009 at 12:45pm EDT
  • Hey Cato, you got that one right. I smell weed almost every time on campus. Enjoyed your style of saying it. Tolerance should be a two-way street, but just now, it's only going one way: I do my thing, and you better keep shut about it, or I will denounce you, carry pickets, get up petitions &c.

  • Posted by mpp141 on July 24, 2009 at 12:45pm EDT
  • Bravo Fred. Well said.

  • Yeah, the gays control everything...
  • Posted by Professor G on July 24, 2009 at 4:15pm EDT
  • ... you know, with their uniform, secretly written "gay agenda"  -- the one, btw, that none of my many GLBT friends/colleagues has ever seen a copy of, because it doesn't exist.  (But it sure is handy when one is trying to denigrate and Other a group of people, isn't it?) To Mr. Cramer, where in this article is there mention of threats of  violence by the GLBT community in response to this appointment?  The text mentions OUTlaw's decision to engage in respectful dialogue, a petition, and some emails that sound fraught on *both* sides.  It's possible that Dr. Thio's stated concerns about her safety and well-being are a way to let herself off the hook for being a homophobe now that it's clear to her that she'd find herself in an environment where her opinions would be challenged. In some ways I am sorry that this scholar has chosen not to come to NYU -- if we can't have open, critical dialogues in a college classroom, then where?  And at the same time, based on Dr. Thio's comments about what she does/doesn't find normal & acceptable re: sexual orientation, I am skeptical that she'd be able to hold up her end of the respectful, scholarly dialogue.  A lost opportunity to engage in potentially meaningful discussion

  • Posted by WTF on July 24, 2009 at 4:30pm EDT
  • Just as ACF has the right to think homosexuality is a choice, so do many of us have the right to think ACF is an ignoramus denying mounting evidence contradicting that position.

    P.S. Universities shouldn't hire people for jobs outside their expertise. Can someone really be an expert in human rights advocacy when his or her position denies those rights to certain people? I think not.

    NYU frakked up on this hire. Why are so many schools failing to properly vet their high profile candidates? Or *are* they being vetted...just by the wrong people whose agendas don't sync up with everyone else's?

  • Diversity and Academic Freedom
  • Posted by Ilene , Instructor/Humanities at Harold Washington College on July 25, 2009 at 6:45am EDT
  • Dr. Thio's anti-gay comments have been foolish from the way I see it. I'm sure many students at NYU are gay, and as college level students and also many being in their 30s, 40s and so on, have been through enough hell and back along with a lot of profoundly serious thinking about same-sex attractions. That's one, two, Dr. Thio's anti-gay sentiments are too personal to be useful in a classroom environment unless she is willing and open to a fair exchange of ideas within argumentation coupled with civil discourse. Gay/straight dialogue about GLBT and Straight mainstream society is necessary for civil humane humanization and human rights. Perhaps, Ms. Thio could read The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I find the fact that she is a human rights lawyer who is anti-gay rights to be a seriously tragic contradiction in terms. I do appreciate that she said, "Diversity is not an excuse for perversity" or something like that. And I agree with her, but I also find her bigotry to be as someone else from the article said, "Academic freedom is not an excuse for bigotry." My brother, who is gay, once heard a "Christian" preacher prosyletizing on the street as he would do almost every day during good weather. The "preacher" often "preached" against homosexuality, saying something like, "God does not allow homosexuals into heaven!" My brother walked right in front of the "preacher" and said, "Does he allow bigots?" As for Dr. Thio's argument that same-sexuality can be a choice is an interesting argument, but it is not a scientific reason because it has not been proven to be such. If we haven't found it now, we are very close to proving that one's sexual orientation is genetic, and choice is another discussion. And choice is also about CHOICE, not about FORCE. Forcing someone to alter an essential characteristic about him or herself is not only oppressive and cruel, it is profoundly perverted! I choose to be a poet--because I am. Force me to not be a poet, and I will inflame the "dream deferred" with civil and human rights--and would die for those rights for everyone--including Ms. Thio because in The United States we do have Freedom of Speech. Unfortunately, that too often means freedom to be abusive toward each other instead of kinder, more compassionate, careful, and truly thinking in terms that we can understand as more reasonable, fair, just, and critical in terms of truth, dignity, and empathy. Human integrity--academic freedom--and academic integrity depend on these aforementioned values and qualities of human nature. I might not like a student's religion, and may believe that religion is harmful and that the student has a "choice" to change to a different religion. But it is neither my place nor within the realm of academic freedom and human rights for me to consider that student and his or her religion "perverse" any more than I can say someone's sexual orientation is "wrong." And that label, "perverse" is exactly the same as saying gay people are "wrong" for being gay. Ms. Thio is wrong for being a well-educated bigot who has missed an excellent opportunity for truly educated and educating debate in a free and open gestalt known as a United States college classroom. Those readers who understand and empathize with my post, thank you. Most sincerely and passionately, Professor S.

  • Contra ordinem Naturae
  • Posted by Dr. Anonymous on July 25, 2009 at 7:00am EDT
  • This is a difficult question with valid arguments on all sides. I am concerned over the power of the homosexual lobby to censor opinion on a major national university campus. Also the assumption that disagreement with their position is bigotry or ignorance. Associations of psychologists and psychiatrists have the right to make statements concerning homosexuality. We also can take into account the wisdom of the centuries. From the Old and New Testaments and from the Church Fathers and from Luther and Calvin we hear that homosexual acts are acts "contra ordinem Naturae," against the law of nature, that is, perversion. I also believe in open debate but not in debate where the homosexual lobby dictates the rules and tries to foist the equivalent of consensus when it is only the politically correct "received ideas" of the day.

  • Where is the censorship?
  • Posted by Dr. Ennui , World-Weary Student at NYU on July 26, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • I must confess that I grow tired of this "liberals intolerant of speech contrary to theirs" argument as applied to the present case. Nobody was silenced and this was not a constructive dismissal.

    First, just to make sure that we're on the same page: is anybody surprised that the LGBT/ally population of NYU was offended by Thio's statements? Does anybody think that this offense was not justified? For Thio did not express her opposition to 377A's repeal in the dulcet tones of third-order-removed academia. She did not predicate her argument on tradition. No pie-charts were produced in order to demonstrate how legalization of male sodomy would be a violation of the traditions of law and economics. She launched into an extraordinarily personal, extraordinarily visceral screed against male homosexuals. Period. What were gays supposed to do? Applaud? Not everyone has buried his or her humanity under protective layers of the abstract.

    So hopefully we're on the same page: homosexuals and their allies were offended, and their offense was perhaps justified, perhaps foreseeable. Next: is it incorrect to express this offense? I found Thio's immediate defensiveness when prodded on this issue (even in her response to Jim's open letter posted on this very website) to be revealing. She immediately played the victim, complaining about how she had been "understood" and willfully "misinterpreted." Her speech to parliament is not the Book of Revelation, replete with vague imagery and indistinct intent. Repeating her very words and demonstrating her animus are not misinterpretation. Thio seemed aware of this, attempting to roll back her rhetoric to the safe harbor of the academic. She did this poorly.

    So once again: were homosexuals wrong to be offended? I should hope not. I have a high bar of offense, and this exceeded even my general stoicism. I initially was willing to give Thio the benefit of the doubt, even after this speech--naivete on my part, perhaps. This willingness faded somewhat as her exchanges with students demonstrated what seemed to be an inability to understand why people took offense on a level broader than that of academic departure.

    The next step is where most diverge, I think: should NYU have rescinded her offer? Opinions split here, and split widely--even in, as we see, the NYU community. Notably, OUTLaw did not decide to argue for rescission. Other factions, principally the one behind the aforementioned petition, did. There was enough room for these differences of opinion, even though debates on the subject were (appropriately) heated. No one orthodoxy triumphed in how to deal with Thio's impending arrival.

    But this was moot: Thio pulled out. She was, despite her protestations to the contrary, not pushed. In the wake of one of the more tepid protests NYU has ever managed to offer--not a single dining hall was violated, after all--she determined that she could not handle the heat posed by an online petition and an e-mail exchange with a guy who works in the IT department. She had ever opportunity to claim the academic and moral high ground, declining to do so in favor of victimhood and a constant attempt to bottle her rhetorical poison back into the flask from which it sprang.

    And while pulling out, she played both the race card and the gays-as-terrorists card. What does being an "Asian woman" have to do with this? And with regard to "fears for your safety": if you throw open that door, be prepared to back it up. Some of the communiques in the public record directed towards Thio were shrill, to be sure, but none of them even approached the level of antagonism justifying implications of more sinister motives on the part of the LGBT community and its allies.

    So, in the end, disappointment. I join the ranks of those who would have, in the end, liked to see her on campus. I wanted my fears to be dispelled and my hopes to be supported--that this would be, in the words of Kenji Yoshino (whose silence throughout this subject matches in puzzlement his decision to speak now), a "teaching moment," one where someone whose anti-homosexual views could, through discourse both heated and respectful, be shown to lack the requisite academic foundation that would allow for their continued adherence in this country, though perhaps not in others.

    That this did not happen is a shame. But please, do not blame this outcome on those who expressed their displeasure. Contrary to what you may believe, the pink-shirted troops at NYU do not control the debate. But they/we were entitled to express displeasure and to advocate for their positions. And, in the end, it was Thio's decision to withdraw. Nothing more, nothing less.

    -An NYU Law Student who Isn't Jim

    PS: I find it rich that Bill Donahue, head of the private, non-Church-affiliated fiefdom that is the Catholic League, has decided to weigh into this debate (throwing his "doctor" title around in an amusing attempt to burnish his intellectual bona-fides). As Donahue's professional career revolves around manufacturing mock offense at all perceived anti-Catholic slights--oftentimes decreeing each new episode as the "worst offense against Catholics, ever"--before screaming at the purported offender on cable news, the very idea that he would express "concern" over campus discontent is bizarre at best. Dr. Thio should be thankful that she never expressed doubt over the veracity of transubstantiation, as Donahue would then be singing a very different tune.

  • My guess is that humans are bi-sexual.
  • Posted by C.K. Thompson on July 26, 2009 at 7:30pm EDT
  • Sexuality is complex. Often enough it is a deeply ingrained, genetic preference that feels, from one's deepest being to be an identity. Other times one's preference is more like a (political) choice, maybe even a form of free speech. Either way (and everything between), human rights is human rights.

  • Posted by chaosakita on July 26, 2009 at 11:30pm EDT
  • Why in the world would an anti-gay person want to teach at NYU? She'd hate all of her students there.

  • Posted by D. , guest on July 30, 2009 at 10:45am EDT
    • Posted by chaosakita on July 26, 2009 at 11:30pm EDT "Why in the world would an anti-gay person want to teach at NYU? She'd hate all of her students there".

    She really believes gay people can change their sexual orientation. She and members of her influential family belong to a virulently anti-gay church in Singapore that runs "ex-gay" courses and sees itself as "at war" with gay people. She has reportedly sent at least one gay student from her department for "deliverance" at a cathedral. I can only conjecture, but suspect she would see herself as on some sort of mission to deliver these "poor souls", though her vulgar parliamentary language wouldn't augur well for her likelihood of success.

  • Posted by D.versity on July 30, 2009 at 11:00am EDT
    • Posted by chaosakita on July 26, 2009 at 11:30pm EDT "Why in the world would an anti-gay person want to teach at NYU? She'd hate all of her students there".

    She really believes gay people can change their sexual orientation. She and members of her influential family belong to a virulently anti-gay church in Singapore that runs "ex-gay" courses and sees itself as "at war" with gay people. She has reportedly sent at least one gay student from her department for "deliverance" at a cathedral. I can only conjecture, but suspect she would see herself as on some sort of mission to deliver these "poor souls", though her vulgar parliamentary language wouldn't augur well for her likelihood of success.

  • Posted by Groninger on July 31, 2009 at 2:15pm EDT
  • From what I've read in this piece, this Thio person is the only one who did not make good on her promise.
    The "logic" behind Ms. Thio's decision to back down from the job offer is that if you do not agree with me, you do not deserve my presence. If she genuinely expected a debate on any subject, she shouldn't hope for a sea of smiling, acquiescent faces, at NYU or any other college campus on this planet. It is funny how some of those purported defenders of "academic freedom" are so unwilling to show the least amount of interest for debate and to actually rise up to the challenge.
    Ms. Thio is not yet another fair-minded martyr who fell victim to the alleged "liberal othodoxy" reigning in academia. She is a run-of-the-mill homophobe who is able to match her rhetoric virulence with neither intellectual openness nor the courage of scientific inquiry.
    Compared to a career in the gay-embracing, "McCarthyist" NYU Law School, she would do better, and probably gain more traction, in the political backwater of the island city-state that is Singapore.

  • Not too smart
  • Posted by Candy83 , - at - on August 1, 2009 at 9:15pm EDT
  • Dr. Thio charges of hostility is just a way of shifting blame on others.

    We're not all expected to get along and agree. You're not shut out of instructing classes because of differing viewpoints.

    What about facts? Are they important anymore? Are they are a part of the teachings? Can Dr. Thio teach with facts?

    That letter of resignation talks about why Dr. Thio can't teach at the University.

    It's others' fault.

    Well, if Dr. Thio can't teach there, where can Dr. Thio handle teaching?

  • Not the Issue
  • Posted by Jarod HM , Graduate Student - Lynch School of Education at Boston College on August 31, 2009 at 10:15am EDT
  • Pamela, in her comment, asks, "Why would a student want a professor to know anything about private, personal behavior?" This situation has nothing to do with her private or personal behavior. This statement are a part of her public life as a politician in her native country. This would have not become a problem if these were simply personal beliefs that she has shared with friends and family. She is using her position as an elected official to deny rights to other citizens. Given her supposed expertise on human rights, it is more than fair game to call into question her views on these issues.