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Is Job Training Zero Sum Game?

September 11, 2009

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As the Obama administration talks up its “green jobs” initiatives, some leaders in workforce development are concerned that more traditional skill trades within the manufacturing and construction fields are being deemphasized by community colleges looking for federal dollars to support newfangled programs.

Among those worried are advocacy groups like the American Welding Society.

“The American Welding Society gets concerned when we see Congress act, as it did this year, to discontinue funding for proven programs like the National Science Foundation’s Advanced Technical Training programs in favor of brand new ‘green jobs’ education,” said Ross Hancock, the group’s spokesman, noting that the vote to discontinue has only passed the House so far. “That’s because, right now, there is a shortage of skilled welders in this country, with welders retiring twice as fast as new ones enter the workforce. This trend is having a critical effect on our ability to compete in both ‘green’ and traditional industries.”

Hancock believes that the funding of more “green” job programs comes at the expense of supporting the training of students for more traditional skill trades. This trend, he said, is all too familiar to his organization.

“This is just a repeat of what we’ve seen in the past in vocational education, where something will become very popular in the education industry, such as the training of people to become computer operators or for data entry positions,” Hancock said. “There’s a big emphasis on them, and it always came at the expense of tradition skills training. We’re going down that same path again, like when we trained everyone to be computer programmers when what we really needed were more people trained in traditional trade skills for construction and manufacturing. I mean, sometimes you’ll see these computer labs sparkling and then you’ll see welding labs in mothballs.”

Bryan Albrecht, former president of the Association for Career and Technical Education and president of Gateway Technical College, in Wisconsin, does not agree with Hancock’s either/or assessment. Rather, he argues that federal and other dollars directed at “green” job programs can also benefit and encourage training for existing, traditional trades.

“I don’t buy the myth,” said Albrecht of the idea that trades like welding are being shortchanged by two-year institutions in favor of new, “green” jobs. “Community colleges are very in tune with what the industry is requesting of them. ‘Green’ job training is connected to an existing pathway. For example, with solar energy, the core skill set is still that of becoming an electrician. A lot of times, we’re adding the use of new resources to enhance that training.”

Albrecht said Gateway, like most community colleges, has taken strides to update its traditional skills programs with new technology and with a new “green” focus. The college’s welding labs, for instance, are now fully automated. Though he admits these traditional skills training programs are changing, he does not think they are being deemphasized, as he believes some have a legitimate claim to being considered “green” themselves.

James Jacobs, advisory board member of the Community College Research Center and president of Macomb Community College, outside of Detroit, said it is key to understand a wide range of factors that influence how community colleges allocate resources to job training.

“I think there are a couple of trends going on simultaneously,” Jacobs said. “Given the belief that some have that community colleges should be helping people transition into the new economy, it is true that some kinds of community college programs and leaders are deemphasizing traditional skills trades and entry-level occupational areas. This is partially motivated by the fact that there are so few instructors in these areas. Many people can make more money in these fields than teaching them. Also, for many years in traditional unionized areas, you had a kind of competition from the unions who did their own training. So, for a community college to start a program for plumbers meant that, to the plumbers union, it was a threat. For those of us who do have a lot of these programs, we are faced with somewhat of a dilemma.”

Jacobs noted that, in his area, he does not see many jobs in welding, but he does see plenty of jobs in which welding is considered a required skill among many others. Offering programs that synthesize a number of skills together, he said, are of more value to students than narrow training programs. Jacobs believes that those who bemoan that traditional trades are being deemphasized may miss this logic.

“Knowing a little bit about welding gets you into many other construction jobs, even though there are not many jobs for welders,” Jacobs said. “It’s like Latin. People rarely get a degree in it, but it has useful applications everywhere. … People who say that colleges have turned their back on a potential area should know we’re not turning our back on the students. We don’t want them to just have a job but a career. We don’t have a lot of new ‘green’ technology programs. Mostly, it’s, ‘How can we make a certain skill set within this job more conscious of things like sustainability?’ In our case, most are directly related to the auto industry. Nobody who goes through these programs refers to them as ‘green’ jobs.”

Groups like Jobs for the Future, a nonprofit advocacy organization, share Jacobs’ reasoning but caution that further emphasis on the “greening” of traditional skills or on newer “green” jobs must also come with a better guarantee that students of these programs will find employment.

“Investment in ‘green’ jobs is important,” said Maria Flynn, a vice president for the group’s Building Economy Opportunity subdivision. “Still, we’ve got to make sure the job demand is there. We don’t want to get back to the job training programs of the ‘70s and ‘80s that were called ‘train-and-pray’ programs. They’d train students for certain skills and then pray that they’d have jobs at the end. These ‘green’ programs need to be developed with jobs available at the end. It would be a disservice to students to do otherwise.”

Even though many are dubious of the claim that traditional skill trades are being deemphasized, the concern that they may be has found the ear of someone within the Obama administration.

Jane Oates, the assistant secretary of labor for education and training, said she was given a “wakeup call” on the subject when she heard an anecdote from Gov. Haley Barbour, of Mississippi.

Oates recalled that Barbour told her of his discontent that so many welding jobs in his state, particularly near the Gulf of Mexico, were being taken by foreign guest workers, when he thought his state’s community colleges could easily train local residents for these jobs. She said she plans to bring Barbour’s perspective to Washington, when working with the Education Department and other groups to fund training programs.

“I’m pushing this because there has been so much confusion in the past three decades with so many people doing intermingled services, from Postsecondary Perkins to vocational high schools to adult evening programs to community colleges” Oates said. “They’re all managed by different people at the state level. The unfortunate outcome is that some occupations have been dropped. Some community colleges thought it was duplicative of what the career and technical education people should have been doing. Programs like welding were dropped because some thought it was being taken care of by Perkins, but Perkins has changed.”

Oates does not believe that the funding mechanisms in place are zero sum between “green” job training and training for more traditional skill trades. Still, she does express some caution for the method in which dollars are invested and for what purpose.

“There are some training opportunities that, because of labor markets, should be less emphasized,” Oates said. “Still, it would be wrong not to look at other areas where training may have gone by the wayside. We always need to be diligent to ‘green’ up traditional trades … We have to be mindful that while funding streams dictate, ‘let’s go after high growth, high wage jobs,’ people want to get any job, even if it doesn’t give them a terrific wage right now. They want a job that’ll help lead to something.”

The first step in putting a certain focus back on traditional trades, Oates argues, is presenting these jobs in a different light.

“What parent ever says to a kid, ‘I want you to go out and be a plumber or welder?’ ” Oates asked. “These jobs are not always given respect, and every job needs to be given the respect and dignity it deserves.”

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Comments on Is Job Training Zero Sum Game?

  • Lack of vocational/trade training
  • Posted by Beth M. Waggenspack , Associate Professor/Communication at Virginia Tech on September 11, 2009 at 7:30am EDT
  • In response to Jane Oates, the assistant secretary of labor for education and training, I AM one of those parents who said to her son "Go out and be a plumber." However, the lack of any kind of vocational training, trade schools, or apprenticeships has led to an extremely frustrating 18 months of intensive searching. There are few apprenticeships in a four-state area; my son was a finalist for one plumbing apprenticeship in the entire state of Virginia this summer which he didn't get. There are no others even on the horizon. The local community colleges offer a course here and there, and often, to have a full schedule, my son also had to take a majority of his courses in college-oriented which didn't match or meet his career goals. He wants to be a tradesperson, but the training simply isn't offered. The lack of qualified instructors and appropriate facilities suggests that community colleges aren't the answer, given their goals of transitioning students to four year institutions or training for less "trades-oriented" careers (HVAC, welding, plumbing, electrician) in favor of more "white collar" types such as computer technology, nursing, and secretarial/administrative roles. I agree that offering synthesized courses is a great idea: but where can you get them? Try a search in your state and see what comes up: there are lots of on-line courses of dubious reputation (and who wants a plumber trained on line) but very few trade schools. Perhaps rather than focusing on multiplying community colleges, a greater effort into developing trade and vocational schools is an answer, both on the secondary and post-secondary level.

  • All Things Green
  • Posted by George Payne , VP - WD&CE at Montgomery College on September 11, 2009 at 8:00am EDT
  • Our approach to green jobs and green education and training programs is that of becoming "greener". As the comments suggest above, the majority of these occupations are existing traditional roles with green techniques being infused rather than a new brand of occupations. Few employers or clients would wish to be at the mercy of new green employees who do not have the basics of their crafts mastered. For the welding industry I would suggest emphasis on "greener" production methods and techniques to infuse in welding programs.

  • Synergies can be found between trades
  • Posted by M on September 11, 2009 at 9:00am EDT
  • At the community college where I work, we are looking at how different trade and technician programs can work together to produce 'green' curriculum. We now offer a sustainable energy associate degree program, along with traditional chemical technology, automotive, advanced manufacturing, and welding. We feel that the key is not to develop whole cloth 'green' associate degree programs, but to find synergies between these programs to develop concentrations in green technologies. For instance, providing an alternative fuel concentration within automotive, or a biofuels concentration in chem tech, or wind farm maintenance concentration within industrial electrician. We know that the job market is somewhat limited (although in our area, windfarms and biofuel plants are proliferating). The goal is to equip students with the skills that they can carry to any sub-industry in their field.

  • Reality
  • Posted by J.J. on September 11, 2009 at 9:45am EDT
  • In the Midwest --- there are NO construction or manufacturing new hires. Ditto, public employees. And "green hiring" can be done on one hand -- that is reality.

    Buyer beware.

    Advice to STUDENTS: yes, focus on your obvious strengths and interests. Focus on reality -- not on the BS that rains down on you daily. Keep your mind open -- a skilled trade paying $20/hour leaves you time to read Plato.

  • HAVE WE TRADED UP OR DOWN?
  • Posted by Dr. Ellarwee Gadsden , Asst. Prof. at Morgan State University on September 12, 2009 at 5:00am EDT
  • I'm the product of an era and place where there were many vocational opportunities. However, I was close enough to the end of that era to 'back up' my vocational diploma with the minimum college prep courses. So, when I discovered that being able to sew well wasn't the same as being a fashion designer, I went directly to college-with only a 1 year hiatus at night high school to catch up on a few missing credits.

    I remember, though, being looked down on by many (and my mother also wasn't too happy) when I took the vocational HS route. It's now become a truism that you can't 'get anywhere' without a college degree. Who, nowadays, vociferously disagrees when the only alternative to a college degree is "lipping hamburgers?"

    What appalls me as much as denigrating people in the skilled trades is that (at least in Great Britain) we now have students are graduating with 'certificates' in fashion design who don't know garment construction or even how to sew!

    It seems to me that our classism has resulted in our having the worst of both worlds. We now have students who aren't successful at, actually who really don't want to be in college and are considered somehow lacking. And they can't find a place, or a way to become really skilled in a trade that demonstrates their true strengths, without being taken advantage of financially.

    What a horrible mess we've gotten ourselves into.

  • Dying programs
  • Posted by Lil Johnny on September 13, 2009 at 12:00pm EDT
  • The manufactoring and technical programs are dying because they do not have any students. Let's face it. Most Americans today do not want to do physical labor of any sort. They all want white collar jobs. As a result, when students come to our communtiy college, they turn up their nose to those sorts of professions and training (despite the money and gainful emplyment that may be awaiting them). Green jobs sounds cooler. It's more hip and now. As a result, there is greater interest in those programs. So... we either need to do a better of job of packaging and selling the old trades or we need to bring in students who are not afraid to get dirty. I hate to stereotype, but just about the only people in this country who are willing to do physical labor and get dirty are illegal aliens... and we are forbidden from admitting them into our colleges now. As a result, they all go directly to the job site and learn on the job (while getting paid for it). The traditional technical programs might as well move over to continuing education and be delivered in brief workshops and training sessions. Oh wait!!! Home depot and Lowes already do that for free on the weekends. There goes that idea.

    The changes we see reflected in the types of programs we offer is simply the result of the changes student interest. Without student's programs die. Plan and simple. All medical programs are golden now. All traditional technical programs, except those related to computers, are dead or are dying. As a result, we have to pull the plug and put them out of their misery. Either that, or we have to make them sexy again. Too bad there are not sexy TV programs (like CSI) that focus on diagnosing a faulty air conditioning unit or clogged drain. Maybe then, those programs could experience a re-birth of sorts. I had some hope that the show "Dirty Jobs" would improve interest in technical programs, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. Did anybody see that special on how they get turkeys pregnant? Gross.

  • Green vs Trades
  • Posted by DFS on September 13, 2009 at 12:15pm EDT
  • It's mostly because of the swallowing of the false concept that high school students must become computer wizards just to survive in the future.

    What a load of crap! When there is no more manufacturing base -- guess what -- there is no more manufacturing!

    The US educational establishment has departed from early 'tracking' -- that's right, "tracking" so as not to 'offend' anyone's prospects of falling short of Einstein or Newton. Thus, we are all either to be geniuses or stupid and unfulfilled.

    It looks like we have slouched towards the latter category. Witness the death of common sense and the lowering of society's basis of common knowledge.

    If the manufacturing industry were still extant today at the level it was prior to WWII, the greenness would have been achieved naturally, today. Now, too many bang-bang controls are forced at it. It's then just too much to construct from zero, now.

    Where is the pool of talent necessary for this? It's still actually in the lower grades, and should be nurtured. But, we have to allow the industries to come back.

    May I humbly suggest tax and tort reforms?

  • We Are Paying for the Lies We Bought
  • Posted by RJW on September 16, 2009 at 8:30am EDT
  • There is a thoughtful primer available in the recently released book titled: Shopclass as Soulcraft, by Matthew Crawford, which speaks to the underlying issue that has poisoned the paradigm of 'education as salvation'. We have been led, fed and co-opted by an overly credentialed, minimally informed subculture of "education experts" that have polluted the intellectual wellsprings of academia, while taking over the levers of power in our public schools and community colleges by the "closed shop" created by credentialitis. Common sense, experience, and real skills have no place in this firmament. There is much sensible perspective in the commentary that followed this article, but left unsaid is the ultimate distortion embedded in our culture over the past thiry years, namely that we should all go to college to earn our white collars....and then we will be happy. The "nurture self-esteem at any cost" mentality wasn't much help either, and now we are adrift in a world where college graduates are increasingly forced to take receptionist/administrative assistant jobs and the burgeoning retirement of well-skilled workers, combined with the lack of replacements, has our nation headed onto an ever lower rung on the economic ladder that bodes badly for our future. Spending more, particularly when we do not have it to spend, will not change this course until we get more leadership with enough courage and sense to rechart our priorities along with demanding measurements of accomplishment and accountability.