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Prerequisite: Experience in War

October 22, 2009

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Rick Hayek had seen the world, led troops in combat and spent a decade enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps. While deployed in Iraq for two tours of duty, he never had a chance to think about what it all meant. Thoughts about civilians’ daily lives, past wars, theories of peace and conflict were so far from his reality that they never stayed in his mind long.

That all changed when he enrolled at Ohio State University last fall as part of the Marine Corps Enlisted Commissioning Program and took “Representations of the Experience of War,” a comparative studies class that used literature, art and film from multiple time periods and regions of the world. “I started to understand parts of the spectrum of war,” he said, “not just our standpoint as members of the military fighting in the war.”

Enrollment in the class was open to students of all backgrounds and, Hayek said, that sometimes hindered the discussions that he and other students with combat experience wanted to have. “It would’ve just been easier, we could’ve been a little freer, if everyone in the class had some kind of military experience.”

Beginning in January, during Ohio State’s winter quarter, only students who are veterans, active duty, guard and reserves will be able to take a specific section of that course – capped at 45 students -- with the goal of fostering “an environment where active duty students and veterans could engage with material on war without having to deal with any possible stigmas about having students in the class who weren’t veterans,” said Susan Hanson, a lecturer in comparative studies and associate in the Center for Folklore Studies who taught Hayek’s class.

Though the course is intended to foster discussion, it won’t be a way for students to absorb cultural works related to the ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. “These students are familiar with those wars,” Hanson said. “We want to get them out of their comfort zones and see that the experiences have been the same in other places at other points in time.”

The winter class will be followed by a spring writing and research military-only course capped at 20 students. “The students will look at materials that are current and have an opportunity to figure out how to represent their experiences,” Hanson said.

Hanson and Dorothy Noyes, director of the folklore center, worked together over the summer to get approval for the courses and to create the Veterans Learning Community, which will oversee the courses and create opportunities for military students to get together to discuss their shared experiences.

Both dismissed criticism that the military-only classes discriminate against non-service members. Military service, they said, is more like a prerequisite experience that would contribute to students' understanding of course materials. The same courses are offered to non-military students and military students may choose to take those versions.

Noyes said that although pulling military students out of the general population taking classes on war might make it seem like non-military students are missing out on hearing firsthand about life in war, the goal is actually to give them a better understanding of those experiences. After military students have “more sheltered conversations in the two-course sequence, we can then have these students as guest lecturers in classes or bring them into public venues,” she said. “We want to use this as a way to get vets more comfortable talking about their experiences with nonvets, whether other students, their families or anyone else.”

The population of students with military experience attending Ohio State is not small; more than 1,200 students are veterans or active service members. More than 300 are receiving benefits this fall under the new GI Bill -- the Post 9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act -- while others, like Hayek, are active duty members participating in campus ROTC programs while working toward becoming officers

In the university’s student population of more than 60,000, however, they can get lost and not be appreciated for the experiences they’ve had, Hanson said. “Most of the university’s programs are tailored to students who are coming directly from high school, but these vets and active duty service members have existing knowledge, experience and expertise that they’re bringing in when they first get here.”

Because both courses fulfill general education requirements, Noyes said she hopes many students will take one or both earlier in their time at Ohio State. “We want them to build on their experience and the coursework for the rest of their time at the university,” she said. “For students who have been through an experience that nobody should have to go through, this should be a good transition into academic work … a way for them to take the things they’ve learned on the ground and apply those resources to their academic experiences.”

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Comments on Prerequisite: Experience in War

  • One-half-of-one percenters, unite!
  • Posted by comatus on October 22, 2009 at 8:00am EDT
  • You might have to pat their heads a little harder, OSU. They wear helmets.

    Now, Military Studies gets to join the other Minority Studies programs in the "special concerns" category. How about some one-way observation windows in that classroom, so all the hipsters can enjoy the irony? There's got to be a thesis in there somewhere.

    How about this: why wouldn't every student of a land-grant A&M have basic military training and Military History in their core curriculum? Perhaps real people who've spent a tour or two in the real world shouldn't have to be treated like a quota-check freak show.

  • Posted by Henry Vandenburgh on October 22, 2009 at 9:15am EDT
  • As a vet, I'm opposed to this. My own undergraduate classes in the 70s were enriched by the combination of vets and non-vets.

  • OSU Veterans
  • Posted by Philly Doc , Retired professor on October 22, 2009 at 9:15am EDT
  • This is an intriguing course and I congratulate Ohio State for taking it on.  Once the university goes into a semester (vs. quarter) system, it may not be able to anymore, but a good experiment in any case. As more and more veterans come back from multiple deployments, having a course where they can relax and reflect may provide an invaluable service and a worthwhile educational opportunity.  I'd be curious, however, to see if the course becomes a magnet for a particular military sub-culture.  That is, will it eventually filter out all but front-line ground troops, for example?  Would sailors or aircraft maintenance veterans slide off and attend the "civilian" section of the course? I sense a doctoral dissertation in here somewhere....

  • classes for vets
  • Posted by del williams , librarian at university of akron on October 22, 2009 at 10:30am EDT
  • I guess I have mixed feelings about this. When I returned to campus in the 70's after the military that included a "southeast Asian" holiday, I found that it was almost impossible to have a conversation about my experiences with people who had not done that. I also found that others who had been in combat would open up in a different way to me than they would to a broader population, even though our experiences might have been quite different. But, on the other hand, most of the guys I knew and know from that time were intent upon reintegrating and rehashing our views of war wasn't the way to do that. If handled reasonably, I can see value in this, particularly when the vet feels a bit like a freak on campus, but it has to walk a line between macho John Wayne and psychobabble for it to work and has to be integrated with more mainstream conversations. Being treated as part of a new minority isn't helpful and breeds resentment in my experience. I also wonder if those who teach this course are veterans or how they prepared to deal with the topic. Hard to get this stuff from a book and then relate it to folks who did this stuff.

  • Posted by Hugh on October 22, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • What next? Classes on the black experience that whites aren't allowed to take? Classes on labor history you can't take if your parents went to college? Religious studies classes closed to non-believers? Gender studies classes closed to men? We wouldn't want any students to feel uncomfortable having to talk to others unlike them.

    I teach a small seminar on media an war. Last time I taught it we had a military vet and some students quite opposed to the current wars. We had great (and civil) discussions. Ohio State is cheating its stduents of a true educational experience.

  • Restricted enrollments
  • Posted by Fred Flener , Retired on October 22, 2009 at 11:30am EDT
  • I just don't understand why any type of experience restricts one's opinions. Those of us without military experience can certainly learn from those who have had some. We can challenge each other and disagree without being disagreeable. Why not restrict child development courses only to those who have had children. Maybe only mothers who have gone through labor should be allowed to study obstetrics. Limit the psychology of sports courses to athletes only. Maybe we can prohibit fundamental Christians from taking a course that covers evolution. (They might choose to self restrict, as might others whose principles make them opposed to any course in which war experiences are viewed positively.) The are many reasons to restrict enrollment in a course (e.g. taking Calculus II without having had Calculus I), but if we start restricting because of life experiences or lack of it, we are crossing over the line. Personally, I think I would enjoy a course in which vets were sharing their views that might agree with or contrast with the views taken from literature, film, etc.

  • Posted by Gary B , Associate Professor of Social Work on October 22, 2009 at 5:45pm EDT
  • I love the format of the class but am troubled by the restrictions for many of the reason already noted.

    In my first week as a freshman in 1970 I had to stand in a particular line in the field house for registration. (Remember the IBM punch cards?) The line I stood in was special, it was not alphabetical: the sign overhead said "VETERANS." In 1970 this was far from the most popular of identities on campus, even though I wasn't a veteran myself. I was a "war orphan."

    But who could tell? I had to stand in this line to get my enrollment confirmed and benefits initiated. Some of the guys in that line would become amongst my best friends. And it was my association with those guys over the following years that contributed greatly to my pursuit of a particular passion and profession.

    Thirty nine years later, those (not so) simple lessons and insights that came through those relationships have been instrumental not only in my professional practice, but also in my role now as an educator preparing new social workers to serve and care for as PART of a larger society, a new generation of men and women and families impacted by war. We need to be aware of how, well intended actions may have unintended consequences. The veteran’s hospitals & domiciles are full of folks isolated from our public conscience.

    And our classes are full of students with no real sense of our involvement in a conflict that has already exceeded the duration of our combat roles in World War I & II combined. (Except for Sally, there, and Trent, there, who are all too familiar with such details, but may be dis-inclined to point that out.) Such classes should not be "group therapy sessions," rather I imagine them as a marvelous learning opportunity that acknowledges the historical and social influences of war & peace, upon us ALL. I can only imagine that such course may well be somewhat self screening as to of who might CHOOSE such a course. That’s OK. But protection through arbitrary restriction is still a restriction: "You've been to war. You are perhaps damaged. We must protect you. -and others, innocents all- Whether you need it or not. Trust me, I’m your professor, I know about these things...") I'm also troubled by the suggestion that perhaps after two protected courses, we can then "bring them into public venues."

    If some veterans need "more sheltered" attention: then lets, as a public, push for the realistic funding of better and perhaps more relevant and honest services, not just relabeling something to fit our particular paradigm. (And perhaps better political solutions?)Criticism aside, I really pleased that we're actually talking about these things!

  • Vets ARE different
  • Posted by Joe H. , Former Cadet Commander of ROTC at OSU at U.S. Army on October 23, 2009 at 8:45pm EDT
  • In 1974 I graduated as a Distinguished Military Graduate from OSU, but why not, I was the Cadet Colonel of OSU Army ROTC. I served four years active and 13 years Reserve and National Guard. Only a family trajedy made me leave. By 1974 none of us were being sent to Viet Nam anymore., although all of us expected to go in 1970 when we started OSU. So, I served for a long time. I believe this....those who have been in combat are different! Only those others who have been in close combat also can understand them. Those of us who served, but not in combat can understand a little...because many of the frustrations of military experience are related more to the upper echelon of the "good guys" than it is to the "bad guys." Let the Vets have their class. They will discuss things that only they can really "feel." And THEN....send them out into the wider student world. If the instructors in their Vets class can help them relate to those who have not served....then this program will be a success, I was a Rush Limbaugh listening Republican. Now i am embarrassed by that. I ran the "Vets for Obama" in my county. God bless all you vets!!!

  • 99.5% of the Ignorant, Intrude!
  • Posted by DFS on October 27, 2009 at 8:00pm EDT
  • That's right, comatus. I'm including you in the 99.5%. Recall that ignorant is neutral in connotation -- it just means that you aren't aware of something.

    Let's all instead follow comatus's advice: intrude! You possess the wisdom to guide those of a certain experience, because you are comatus!

    Let's decide to do nothing for those with a need? Get real.

    If your objections are valid, comatus, then I look forward to your objections similarly employed everywhere else so applicable.

  • Need for group therapy in addition to history on war and peace
  • Posted by Paul Zumfelde , Retired-The Ohio State University Extension at Ohio State University on November 5, 2009 at 8:45pm EST
  • As a Viet Nam veteran returning to college at Eastern Michigan University in 1968 I would have loved to have been a part of a class that was group therapy for returning vets The issues of teaching about the history of war and including the peace movement would also have been greatly welcomed. My opinion is that all of these classes beyond group therapy should be open to all serious minded students on campus in order to educate the general populace of the horrers of war in order to reduce it in the future

  • thanks
  • Posted by Donna Loyd on November 17, 2009 at 10:00pm EST
  • Having spent the past 2 days at the V.A. Hospital in Dallas, I realize the importance of this organization to dedicate specialized time to others with whom they relate on such a dramatic level. There is an element of sacrifice that we, as civilians, can never grasp. To afford this opportunity is paramount and I am thankful to see the realization that there is a differing need to be met, vet-4-vet. God bless your endeavor.

  • Vets-4-Vets
  • Posted by Donna Loyd , President at Freelance Specialists, Inc. on November 17, 2009 at 10:15pm EST
  • Having spent 2 days at the V.A. Hospital in Dallas with my retired Tank Sgt., I saw first hand the difference in needs of military personnel. They pay a price we will never be able to relate to, whether eye, limb, or time experiencing horrors or losses we will never know. This is a very timely, much needed venue. God bless this endeavor.