Search News


Browse Archives

News

Philosophers Against Bias

November 23, 2009

Share This Story

FREE Daily News Alerts

Advertisement

Many academic associations have policies barring discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Many of those same associations have job listing services that are used, in some cases, by religious institutions that require all hires to hold certain beliefs or follow certain rules, in some cases barring sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman.

The American Philosophical Association has for several years been debating whether allowing such institutions to use its jobs services undercuts the group's anti-bias rules and effectively hurts its members who are gay; some philosophers have suggested that the association ban job notices from colleges that discriminate against gay people.

While the association has now rejected that move, it has decided on a new procedure that will flag all ads from employers that either volunteer that they discriminate or are determined to do so.

The new policy is being hailed by some philosophers as an important demonstration of the association's commitment to equity. But there may be a loophole in the policy -- and an association of Christian colleges is questioning the fairness of the new procedure.

Under the new system, the association's rules against bias will be posted on the page where colleges can add a job notice. When placing the notice, colleges will be asked to indicate whether their policies are consistent with the association's bans on various types of discrimination, including discrimination based on sexual orientation. Any colleges that does not indicate that it complies with the statement will be flagged for not doing so, so potential applicants will be aware of the issue. Further, the association will investigate any complaints about whether colleges that haven't been flagged are violating the policy, and if they are found in violation, they will also be flagged.

While the policy notes that the association does not consider it a violation of its anti-bias rules for some religious colleges to consider religious affiliation in hiring decisions, there is no exception made to the policy for religious colleges to violate other association rules (such as those barring discrimination based on sexual orientation).

Further, the association's policy has now been made explicit that bans on people who engage in sex with a member of the same sex are considered discrimination. In the past, some advocates for religious colleges have said that these institutions don't discriminate against gay people, but only those who engage in gay sex. The new policy of the association says that when conduct is "integrally connected" to a status, such as gay sex being related to being gay, that conduct can't be banned without discriminating against the people who are a member of the relevant group.

Alastair Norcross, associate professor of philosophy at the University of Colorado at Boulder and one of the leaders of the movement for the policy change, said that the inclusion of the language about conduct was crucial, so that colleges couldn't claim not to discriminate against gay people by saying that they welcomed them if they were celibate.

Norcross said that the new system would have been undercut with anything that would let colleges "say that there is a difference between the act and the orientation."

He said that doing so would be the equivalent of letting colleges "say that we'll hire men or women, but we require all of our employees to pee while standing up." That might not be technically gender bias, in that a woman could still be hired, but it would be de facto bias, just as it would be for a college to say that it would hire gay people who promised never to have sex outside heterosexual marriage.

The APA has not officially announced its new policy, but Norcross -- who was briefed on it because of his role in encouraging the change -- posted details about it on the blog Leiter Reports. Via e-mail to Inside Higher Ed, Kwame Anthony Appiah, a philosopher at Princeton University who is chair of the APA, said that the account posted by Norcross was accurate, but he said that the vote was "a reflection of the all-things-considered judgment of the members of the board," not "an endorsement of any particular arguments raised in the discussion."

Further, he noted that the association already flags institutions that have been censured either by the APA or the American Association of University Professors, so that this new rule just "adds to the information already available for job candidates about issues of this general kind."

Some view the shift as more than just adding some more information.

Paul R. Corts, president of the Council for Christian Colleges & Universities, said that he found the new policy "concerning because the APA is acknowledging that faith-based institutions are legally permitted to seek like-minded faculty consistent with their mission, but the APA is choosing to ostracize those campuses anyway."

He added that Christian colleges are "part of a long history of welcomed diversity -- acknowledged as a great strength -- in the American higher education system. We are disappointed that the APA doesn’t respect diversity but rather seeks to force all institutions to conform to a single mold of the APA’s choosing. To brand some campuses with a type of scarlet letter seems to be the antithesis of diversity."

Corts also noted that Christian colleges don't hide their views. "CCCU campuses are searching for scholars and faculty that want to teach and serve at a faith-based institution," he said. "When our institutions identify their faith-based mission requirements in position announcements, this is an affirmative process of finding faculty who embrace the mission and does not force any candidate to change their views."

At least one member of the APA board who voted for the measure said that he is "an extreme conservative in matters pertaining to what a religious institution can require of its faculty members," and that he came to the view that the measure was "pretty harmless." Peter van Inwagen, a University of Notre Dame philosopher, said that he wasn't bothered by flagging ads.

"What many of the secular progressives on the board wanted done -- and this was not done -- was to vote to exclude departments that refused to sign the anti-bias statement," he said.

The philosophy association is also explicitly affirming the right of religious colleges to require employees to sign a statement of faith, he said and he wouldn't have voted for the policy without being assured that such a statement could say something along the lines of: "All erotic physical contact between two persons of the same sex is a grave sin and contrary to the will of God."

Norcross, the professor who helped lead the movement to get the policy changed, said that the minute a college went beyond such a statement -- and excluded those whose actions were inconsistent with the statement on erotic contact -- that college would be violating the standards and could be flagged.

He characterized van Inwagen's theory as "a weird loophole," but acknowledged that it could in fact exist under the policy. But Norcross said he saw the loophole having minimal impact. "Most institutions that care enough to make you sign a statement of faith and conduct want to make you promise not to do those things," he said, and that promise would violate the association's rules.

Norcross also stressed his view that the policy was a key advance. "We had for 20 years this statement" about not discriminating against gay scholars, but the association did nothing to express its disagreement with colleges that didn't follow the policy, he said.

While Norcross said he had mixed feelings about allowing colleges that discriminate to use any of the association's jobs services, he said he saw the new policy as a step forward. Some had worried that if the association completely excluded colleges that discriminate, a dual job hunt would be required of job candidates, who would have to consider positions through the association and through some other body that might be formed around colleges wanting to bar gay faculty members.

The movement to change the association's policies was first set off by a petition created by Charles Hermes, who teaches philosophy at the University of Texas at Arlington. That petition, signed by nearly 1,500 philosophers, called for the association to either bar discriminatory colleges from using the job services or to institute a flagging system. (The petition was prompted by philosophers finding job listings from colleges that, citing their religious views, barred gay faculty members.)

Norcross said that "if anybody should be sensitive to these issues, it should be philosophers." Arguments defending bias against gay people "are specious and philosophers should be opposed to specious arguments."

See all postings »
Advertisement
Advertisement

Matching Jobs

Comments on Philosophers Against Bias

  • So what are the limits?
  • Posted by Alec on November 23, 2009 at 6:00am EST
  • Here's the statement from the "Leiter blog" referenced in the article:

    The American Philosophical Association rejects as unethical all forms of discrimination based on race, color, religion, political convictions, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, gender identification or age, whether in graduate admissions, appointments, retention, promotion and tenure, manuscript evaluation, salary determination, or other professional activities in which APA members characteristically participate. This includes both discrimination on the basis of status and discrimination on the basis of conduct integrally connected to that status, where "integrally connected" means (a) the conduct is a normal and predictable expression of the status (e.g., sexual conduct expressive of a sexual orientation), or (b) the conduct is something that only a person with that status could engage in (e.g., pregnancy), or (c) the proscription of that conduct is historically and routinely connected with invidious discrimination against the status (e.g., interracial marriage).

    So ALL limits on employment on the basis of sexual orientation or expression are off, including zoophilia and pedophilia? Since conduct is "integrally connected" with status? What fun this will be!

  • Posted by Simon , Philosopher on November 23, 2009 at 6:45am EST
  • Alec, it doesn't say "sexual ... expression", it says "sexual orientation" and conduct intrinsically connected to it - i.e. homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual.
    Do you have a good argument for why zoophilia and pedophilia should not be subject to discrimination? No, I didn't think so (hint: lack of consent). Neither do the APA.

  • bias strongly disapproved--and bias approved and supported
  • Posted by prof ethan on November 23, 2009 at 8:00am EST
  • Here is the "Personal Statement" required to be filled out by all applicants to graduate study at the University of California at Berkeley. This is not a hoax. The required "Personal Statement" appears on p. 29 of the UC graduate school application pdf, following the more traditional "Statement of Purpose" on p. 28, and the usual basic information required on p. 27.

    "Please describe how your personal background informs your decision to pursue a graduate degree. Please include information on how you have overcome barriers to access in higher education, evidence of how you have come to understand the barriers faced by others, evidence of your academic service to advance equitable access to higher education for women, racial minorities, and individuals from other groups that have been historically underrepresented in higher education, evidence of your research focusing on underserved populations or related issues of inequality, or evidence of your leadership among such groups."

    This amounts to a political pre-purging of applicants to graduate study and hence of the next generation of faculty.

    Who, one wonders, will be accepted at Berkeley (my alma mater) who writes, for instance, the following in response to the required question: "I'm a politically conservative white male who has suffered no discrimination, and I think people ought to fend for themselves, and depend on their own responsibility and talents to get ahead. No one needs, or should want, a helping hand from government to get into graduate school."

    The nature of the required "Personal Statement" was pointed out to me by a very bright Iranian-American undergraduate Honors student, who wears a hijab--and who was outraged.

  • Transparancy and informed choice
  • Posted by Bob on November 23, 2009 at 9:30am EST
  • Huzzahs to the Philosophers who have taken a principled stand to assist their members to make an informed choice. I suppose that many folks will argue that a "scarlett letter" now exists. I would argue that it will help insure that discrimination (of the negative kind) does not occur.

    Religious schools can continue being "religious" and get Job applicants who are fully informed as to what that means...or not.

  • Posted by jim on November 23, 2009 at 10:45am EST
  • I can't tell from the article whether all job posts by an institution are flagged or only those jobs that are expressly open under only discriminatory criteria. Maybe such institutions discriminate in all of their hiring. If so my comment is useless. Otherwise the "flagging" should be selective.

  • Congrats to the APA!!
  • Posted by Wade Hannon , Associate Professor on November 23, 2009 at 11:15am EST
  • Praise goes to the APA for taking a stand and then standing by that stand! I am aware of other academic groups that have anti-discrimination policies yet allow groups that violate them to place ads, have booths at conferences, etc. Maybe I should join APA?

    Keep up the good work APA!

  • Open bias
  • Posted by Jonathan Dresner on November 23, 2009 at 11:30am EST
  • I don't understand what the problem is: these colleges want to discriminate; wouldn't they also want to discourage applications from those they would discriminate against, so as to reduce the time and energy required to discriminate? Wouldn't they want to reduce applications from people likely to object to this sort of discrimination, so as to reduce the time and energy required to maintain the policy in the future?

    They have a choice: engage with the wider world by not discriminating, or separate themselves. I don't see how they can do both, nor why the APA should enable their misguided attempt to do so.

  • Thank You, Prof. Ethan
  • Posted by Curro Romero on November 23, 2009 at 12:15pm EST
  • The bias in that "Personal Statement" is indeed chilling. And I love your statement from an honest graduate candidate: (See above. And see below).

    You've given me an idea. We should have political quotas as well as ethnic, gender, and sexuality ones. Calculate political statements along with qualifications and strive for a balance among all these things. What a great collegiate atmosphere would result. I can see it now in the classroom as students introduce themselves: "I was admitted on the basis of my academic promise and what I can bring as a politically conservative black woman, politically moderate gay latino, liberal white man and so on.

    A philosophy professor once told me that what makes a good school is not its faculty but its students. If it is dominated by Asian and White whiz kids it may be a pretty darn good shool as far as high levels of achievement in certain fields. On the other hand, it will also be lacking just the cultural diversity that your offended Iranian student represents. Take chemistry, for instance. Students and professors need the "chemistry" of cultural diversity, the encounter of many backgrounds that can lead to innovation otherwise unthinkable in a too-homogenous "think tank."

    In social science and humanities classes I can hear an interesting discussion: The white conservative parsing the rhetoric of his classmates and vice versa--"What do you mean by 'conservative'? Since the Industrial Revolution overthrew the feudal system in such an uneven way, what are you trying to conserve? Feudalism? The Liberalism of the opening stages? But THAT was in response to something that no longer exists. . . .

    "How do you know you've suffered no discrimination, especially if you're from a working class background? Have you not read Gramsci, Adorno, Habermas, Marcuse, hooks?

    "When you say people ought to fend for themselves and depend upon their own responsibility does that prohibit joining coalitions and participating in civic affairs, lobbying local, state and federal governments as consolidated interests groups, firms, etc.? Or is that exclusively for big banks and corporations?

    "What do you mean by 'depend upon their own responsibility and talents'? We thought that was a social given. Don't all societies pressure their members to pull their own weight? Or do certain societies claim to expect it on the one hand and then, on the other, make policies hostile to that, unofficially segregate inner city schools, etc.--all of which tend to cut people off from contributing?

    And how about the phrase, "to get ahead"? Ahead of what? Others? At others' expense. Or would the phrase be better stated thus: "Act on your responsibility to yourself and others, develop and ply your talents for yourself and the community which in turn can then reciprocate by being the good, mutually supportive community you helped to make it"?

    That is, for everyone everywhere, whether one recognizes it or not, in reality we're accepting social support in order to pay it back around (i.e. the young Benjamin Franklin and the powerful and influential friends he cultivated.) Maybe that's what a good society/ civilization is (and what a bad one is not?)

    The "conservative" might have to rethink his position, what he means by his own platitudes, potential contradictions, and misconceptions about just what the opposition is arguing. And as a "conservative," he's in position to challenge those of others. (You are very good at that, Prof. Ethan. Keep it up.)

    Thanks again. Let's do add students' political statements to the mix, for an enriched academic inquiry. Ask Professor Jones in the math department to devise an optimal quota (he can appoint a committee) that creates a full-spectrum equilibrium--everything from political to sexual orientation, with, of course, strong academic potential. The quota must be transparent. That way, a gifted, white male conservative applies to Berkeley and knows he's got a real shot at getting in!

  • Posted by guilty bystander on November 23, 2009 at 1:00pm EST
  • Reply to Professor Ethan. My son was an applicant for grad school in philosophy two years ago. He seemed kind of a hot ticket with an honors degree from a top university, high GREs, and a couple of famous contemporary philosophers were supporting his applications. Several graduate applications required such statements as Berkeley's, and he wrote answers like your example. I was dismayed. I said: You won't get accepted with an answer like that. He said: Then I don't want to go there. I suppose he was right, but for sure I was--he didn't get a second look from those schools. Philosophy is kind of a strange discipline anyway--admissions are so competitive, and at the other end, there are few teaching opportunities for their new PhDs anyway. It's a mystery to me, but I am only a bystander.

  • bias against discrimination
  • Posted by Peter , Ph.D. Student at Boston University on November 23, 2009 at 2:15pm EST
  • The APA is purportedly implementing a policy to dicriminate against bias in hiring and admissions on the basis of sexual orientation. In reality they are demonstrating a bias against certain types of discrimination made by some schools. All schools discriminate in admissions and hiring in some way. They may discriminate against convicted felons, drug addicts, students with bad academic track records, certain intellectual viewpoints that might not "fit" with the department, etc. The real question is what forms of discrimination are politically and philosophically acceptable. Apparently discimination in favor of certain sexual behaviors is O.K., while discrimination against those same behaviors is not. The most consistent position the APA could take would be to simply require that all institutions publicize their hiring and admissions preferences.

  • standing up for truth
  • Posted by PiledHigher&Deeper , PhD at European on November 23, 2009 at 2:45pm EST
  • Thank you, APA, for standing firm! Even though it is politically risky, you were brave to resist the grave evil of these religious academies. The SIN of sexual mores must be resisted. Though we have progressed far, there is farther yet to go! Let's not stop now. Go all the way and take a stand against morality... (Oh...wait a minute. If you do that, I can no longer be indignant about anything. Better stop while ahead...).

    All foolin' aside, have any of you philosopher-types ever heard of presentist provincialism?

  • Posted by prof ethan on November 23, 2009 at 3:30pm EST
  • Thanks for that sad story, guilty bystander.  The people logging comments here should take it seriously, as an issue of bias in the philosophy profession.  At the risk of sounding snide, however, I have to add:  don't hold your breath.

  • I Take It Seriously
  • Posted by Curro Romero on November 23, 2009 at 4:45pm EST
  • Prof. Ethan,
    I happen to agree with your assertion that bias against white male conservative students exists in much of non-religious affiliated higher education. Hence my modest proposal (above). I should add that Professor Jones, or the math professor in the appropriate field, should work with a college-wide committee to evaluate personal statements and guarantee that enough conservative white males are admitted to all programs. Otherwise, the hypothetical case you offer, and the real one guilty bystander attests, are merely anecdotal "proof" of bias. I hold with you that it is real. Perhaps we need well-designed quotas to quell it.

  • rationalizations for continuing bias
  • Posted by E. W. Parks , Professor of Philosophy on November 23, 2009 at 4:45pm EST
  • I've been both dismayed and amused by the parochial and numbingly irrelevant comments here on the APA's new policy.

    Comments, e.g., such as this, from a graduate student in philosophy, yet! "All schools discriminate in admissions and hiring in some way. They may discriminate against convicted felons, drug addicts, students with bad academic track records, certain intellectual viewpoints that might not "fit" with the department, etc."

    That not accepting students into grad school because of their poor academic performance (presumably as undergraduates) is on all fours with not accepting James Meredith into Ole Miss, in the early 1960's, or that not accepting women applicants is no different from not accepting people who cannot function because of their methedrine habits, is to advance the kind of fallacy that high school students (one hopes) have been taught to avoid.

    The APA has decided against allowing certain kinds of job advertisements to appear in their publications, and on Jobs in Philosophy, namely, those from schools who don't accept gays or lesbians on their faculties. That is a good thing. What someone's child has encountered by way of applying to Berkeley is irrelevant to the general policy the APA has announced. Those who 'argue' that professional organizations are committed, if they establish policies against giving aid to institutions' that discriminate in hiring against gays and lesbians, not to give aid to those that discriminate against people whose carnival act is biting the heads off chickens, is the sort of reasoning that one would expect from politicians and not from philosophers.

    I'm glad that the APA has done this; that it may get other things wrong, or that there's more it could do, are not an arguments against what they have done.

  • Posted by Robert O'Brien , Statistician at University of California on November 23, 2009 at 11:00pm EST
  • Many modern philosophers are pretentious morons (the worst species of moron) who contribute nothing to the common weal, so the ratification of this execrable policy should come as no surprise. Incidentally, this is how one of the members of the clown car who agitated for this authoritarian leftist change characterized the criticisms posted here:

    "The comments are the usual mix of rationality and knee-jerk wailing about the plight of the poor oppressed straight white males."--Alastair Norcross

    Professor Norcross is not, of course, referring to real rationality born of hard logic but rather the pretense thereof that exists in his head among the cobwebs and utilitarian delusions.

  • Safety in numbers
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 24, 2009 at 5:30am EST
  • Interesting that Robert O'Brien didn't have the courage to submit his real name and email address when he tried to post his insults to Leiter Reports. He did email them to me, however. I actually replied to his email, asking him whether he had any reasons for opposing the APA policy. Naturally, I haven't heard back from him. It is interesting to read the comments on this site. There seems to be a lot of insecure bluster, but no-one has given any reasons why the APA policy is a mistake. I presume that the posters here aren't opposed to professional organizations being opposed to racist or sexist bigotry. They must, therefore, think that homophobia is unlike racism or sexism, and that homophobic bigotry is acceptable. If so, I presume that they believe that homosexual behavior is immoral. Perhaps they would have the intellectual decency to come out (so to speak) and say so.

    Incidentally, it is possible to get the impression from reading some of the comments, and the article, that this policy somehow affects all religious institutions. It doesn't, of course. Many religious institutions have no objections to homosexuality. There is nothing about Christianity, for example, that compels one to discriminate against homosexuals. As with many moral issues, it is common to read one's own prejudices into one's favorite texts.

  • Posted by Clayton on November 24, 2009 at 5:30am EST
  • As much as I hate to rain on a pity party for conservative white males who can't get into graduate school, there are homosexual conservative white males who stand to benefit from policies that protect homosexuals from discrimination.

    Look out! Angry statistician with a thesaurus!

    O'Brien, I think you're conflating name calling with "rationality born of hard logic". You seem to be missing something really basic. (You're not the only one. The chucklehead above doesn't get it.) Suppose you have some private group. Outsiders want in and they want to use something that belongs to the members of the group. According to standard libertarian reasoning, outsiders have no claim on the goods that belong to the members of the group who are free to set whatever crazy terms they want for outsiders to join the group or use their goods. Christian colleges have their rules. The APA has their rules. The APA cannot demand that Christian colleges hire homosexuals, atheists, or homosexual atheists. The Christian colleges should also have no right to demand that they can place ads in the JFP under terms that the APA doesn't like. The JFP belongs to the members of the APA, not the Christian colleges who _ask_ to use it. Geez. This is like libertarianism for middle schoolers. I can see how someone like Glen Beck could confuse that with fascism or whatever, but you're a statistician! You're a statistician at UC who is cagey enough to avoid the political purges! Must do better.

  • Philosophy prof. misses the point.
  • Posted by Peter on November 24, 2009 at 11:00am EST
  • Prof. Parks misses the point in my statements regarding discrimination. Obviously schools logically discriminate against students with poor academic records. My point was not WHY they discriminate, but THAT they do. All schools and programs do. I was asserting simply that all schools should publish their biases up front, as many historians do today, so as to be clear regarding their bias for or against their topic of study.

  • Clayton
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 24, 2009 at 11:30am EST
  • Clayton, I'm not sure who you're referring to as "The chucklehead above", who doesn't get it (it could be any one of several). In case it's me (my post is right above yours), I should say that I agree with everything you say. Of course, if you're the Clayton I know, you already know that. There's a difference between what's morally and legally acceptable. And there should be, at least in some cases. It would be a (morally) bad thing if the law were to prohibit everything that's immoral (imagine going to trial for not calling your mother often enough!).

    Discrimination against homosexuals is legal, at least for private institutions in most states. While it is, private institutions that practice such discrimination have every legal right to do so. At the same time, the APA has every legal (and moral) right to censure such institutions, and to set the terms on which all institutions get to use the privately funded resources of the APA. If the institutions that discriminate against homosexuals are confident that they are justified in so discriminating, they should have no objection to the fact of this discrimination being made known in the pages of the JFP. In fact, they should be happy to have it known. They do, after all, claim that such discrimination is integral to their mission as Christian colleges. So, the APA policy is a win-win. If, on the other hand, the institutions that discriminate object to having this made known, they must know that their behavior is on shaky moral ground.

  • Peter (inadvertently) supports APA policy
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 24, 2009 at 12:00pm EST
  • Peter says "I was asserting simply that all schools should publish their biases up front." That is what the APA policy is designed to do, regarding biases against various kinds of people. As for the other biases, for example those in favor of good academic performance and reasoning skills, those are often spelled out on the webpages of the various departments, but only those lacking those reasoning skills really need them to be spelled out. Discrimination against homosexuals, though, is far more surprising, even at a religious institution, and the average job-seeker could quite reasonably assume that respectable academic institutions don't engage in such behavior any more. The average job-seeker in philosophy is either still in graduate school, or recently out of it. They are likely to be aware that there are no good arguments opposing homosexual behavior, and may well idealistically assume that an academic institution won't engage in behavior for which there are no good arguments. The sad truth is, of course, otherwise.

  • Posted by Clayton on November 24, 2009 at 12:30pm EST
  • Hey Alistair,

    Sorry about that. You're not my chucklehead. Your comment posted long after mine was written. The comment approval time certainly makes it harder to be mean to the right people. I was speaking of the chucklehead moaning about how hard it is to be a conservative white male trying to crack into academia.

  • Posted by Robert O'Brien , Statistician at University of California on November 24, 2009 at 2:45pm EST
  • "Interesting that Robert O'Brien didn't have the courage to submit his real name and email address when he tried to post his insults to Leiter Reports."

    To the contrary, Brian Leiter lacked the courage to post my comment, which I submitted with my real name and email address. (Speaking of whom, I wish I could buy Leiter for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth; I'd make a killing.)

    "I actually replied to his email, asking him whether he had any reasons for opposing the APA policy."

    I oppose the policy because

    a) I think homoerotic acts are irrational and incongruous with the Christian ethos.

    b) Anyone, like Charles Hermes, who is "shocked" that homoerotic acts would be proscribed at a Christian institution is lacking in native intelligence.

    c) The APA has Christian philosophers among its membership who no doubt oppose this change in policy and they pay their membership dues too.

    "Look out! Angry statistician with a thesaurus!"

    My thesaurus is in my head.

    "O'Brien, I think you're conflating name calling with 'rationality born of hard logic'."

    No, but you and those of like mind appear to conflate mere assertion with fact.

    "...there are no good arguments opposing homosexual behavior..."

    I apologize for piercing the veil of ignorance that surrounds your intellectually-inbred clique but repeating this ad nauseam does not make it true.

  • Still no arguments
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 24, 2009 at 4:30pm EST
  • I asked Robert O'Brien for reasons to oppose the APA policy. This is what he came up with:

    a) I think homoerotic acts are irrational and incongruous with the Christian ethos.

    b) Anyone, like Charles Hermes, who is "shocked" that homoerotic acts would be proscribed at a Christian institution is lacking in native intelligence.

    c) The APA has Christian philosophers among its membership who no doubt oppose this change in policy and they pay their membership dues too.

    Lets take these claims in order:

    a) This has two parts. The first part is a claim, without an argument to back it up. In what sense are homosexual acts "irrational"? The people who engage in them have plenty of reasons to do so. In fact, they have the very same reasons that people who engage in heterosexual acts have for engaging in most of those. Perhaps you will claim that these are bad reasons, if, or example, you claim that the only good reasons to engage in sexual acts are procreative ones. That would take a pretty hefty piece of argumentation, though. It would also condemn almost all human sexual behavior. I have read various attempts to provide such arguments. They are uniformly bad. Feel free to provide better ones.

    The second part of a), that homosexual acts are "incongruous with the Christian ethos", is also an assertion with no argument to back it up. What, exactly, is the "Christian ethos"? Many people might think that it has something to do with the general moral outlook ascribed to Jesus Christ. As I understand this outlook (being brought up in a country with no separation of church and state, I studied the Bible thoroughly in school), it has a lot to do with loving our neighbors, and very little, if anything, to do with condemning the harmless private expression of love between consenting adults. The fact that many Christian denominations are quite accepting of homosexuality demonstrates that my understanding of the "Christian ethos" is hardly idiosyncratic. There is a further point here. Even if Robert O'Brien could somehow demonstrate that homosexual behavior is "incongruous with the Christian ethos", what would this show about reasons to oppose such behavior? He would first have to demonstrate that the "ethos" in question is itself entirely moral.

    b) This is simply an abusive ad hominem claim, and has nothing to do with whether the APA policy should be opposed. An ante bellum abolitionist who was shocked that some Southerners owned slaves would also be naive. Such naivety would have nothing to do with the moral imperative to oppose slavery.

    c) The APA does, indeed, have some members who oppose the policy change. It also has many more who support it. The APA, like the USA, is (roughly) a democratic institution. Most Americans are opposed to at least some of the uses to which their tax money is put. Different people are opposed to different uses. However, we don't get to pick and choose which parts of our taxes we pay. If we object to particular uses, we can try to get different representatives elected, to change those uses. Likewise, the APA membership can elect different members of the National Board. Individual members can also propose motions to be voted on at their divisional meeting. That is what I did with the motion that precipitated this policy change. My motion passed unanimously at the Pacific Division meeting last Spring. If those members of the APA who are opposed to the policy changes wish to reverse them, they are free to make use of the same democratic methods I used. Further, there is no requirement that professional philosophers or philosophy students be members of the APA.

    It amazes me that conservatives are quite willing to trot out this line of "we shouldn't force people to pay taxes for things they disapprove of" when it comes to things that conservatives disapprove of, but are just fine with using taxes to pay for things liberals disapprove of. You can't have it both ways. Actually, it doesn't amaze me at all. I would be naive, if I continued to be amazed by the depths of hypocrisy in which some conservatives happily wallow.

    In conclusion, inasmuch as Robert O'Brien has provided reasons to oppose the APA policy, he hasn't supported these reasons with anything that looks like an argument. Pretty much any of my first-year undergraduate students at the University of Colorado could do better. I think I can probably guess the source of his animosity towards philosophy (he hasn't explained it, so all I can do is guess). Philosophy is, in large part, a matter of providing arguments to support positions. Robert O'Brien appears to be incapable of doing that. Perhaps he once took a philosophy class, and was dismayed that his bare unsupported assertions didn't merit good grades.

    I would have thought that Robert O'Brien couldn't have gotten away with such a lack of reasoning in statistics, either. But, of course, I have no idea what kind of statistician he is. I tried to find him on the UCSD website, but I couldn't (the email address from which he sent me his harangue was r1obrien@math.ucsd.edu). Perhaps this is why Brian Leiter refused to accept his post. Brian was quite explicit that he wanted a full name and valid email address. When someone who describes himself as a "Statistician at University of California" isn't listed on the website of the institution named in his email address, that looks suspicious. Also somewhat suspicious is the fact that someone calling himself "Robert O'Brien" and describing himself as a statistician from California seems to have contributed to various blogs many posts, whose sole purpose appears to be to insult Brian Leiter. Furthermore, his blogger.com profile lists his age as 253. However, I'm sure that that "Robert O'Brien" is not the intellectual hero of this comment thread. I'm also sure that there's an innocent reason for my inability to find him, and he'll be happy to enlighten us as to his academic credentials.

  • A small idea
  • Posted by DFS on November 24, 2009 at 8:00pm EST
  • How about we just enforce the Law and not worry about mind control, but just behavior, instead?

    Do we need to make a movie like Time Cop? Perhaps we'll just call it Mind Cop! I like that -- it's reminiscent of Mein Kampf.

    The Premise: Someone assigned to some weird dimension of reality will be able to use some version of the Patriot Act to ward off any bad thoughts?

  • Posted by prof ethan on November 25, 2009 at 5:00am EST
  • As I warned Guilty Bystander, whose outstanding undergraduate son failed to get into grad school in philosophy b/c he answered honestly an offensive "personal statement" eliciting victimization from applicants--there was no use expecting that these philosophers would find political discrimination wrong, or attempts at mind control wrong. Sure, discrimination against gays is wrong and stupid, and that rightly gets their ire; but imposing political correctness and left-wing mind control right on the graduate school application form, to ensure who gets admitted? No problem! You can tell from all the snide remarks about "conservative white males".

    So it's not the general immorality of unfair discrimination that bothers them. It's all (and only) pc politics *masquerading* as general morality that is at play here. Otherwise, they'd be concerned about the Berkeley application form. They are not.

  • Posted by Clayton on November 25, 2009 at 12:15pm EST
  • The powers that be did not publish my previous comment as I suggested that someone is sitting on a thesaurus.  Totally out of line on my part, mea culpa.  

    Prof. Ethan writes, "As I warned Guilty Bystander, whose outstanding undergraduate son failed to get into grad school in philosophy b/c he answered honestly an offensive "personal statement" eliciting victimization from applicants--there was no use expecting that these philosophers would find political discrimination wrong, or attempts at mind control wrong. Sure, discrimination against gays is wrong and stupid, and that rightly gets their ire; but imposing political correctness and left-wing mind control right on the graduate school application form, to ensure who gets admitted? No problem! You can tell from all the snide remarks about "conservative white males"."

    It's amazing to me that you and Guilty Bystander think you have sufficient evidence to claim that you know the cause for some particular applicant to fail gain admittance to a graduate program.  The graduate program at UC Berkeley is an exceptionally difficult program to get into.  I imagine that they must reject over 90% of their applicants and many of those who apply and get rejected manage to get into elite programs.  That someone is cut from that program fairly and not unjustly is perfectly consistent with the further claim that the applicant is quite talented, very ambitious, and well liked by everyone involved in the admissions process.  This is commonly known to anyone who knows anything about the business, and so anyone who knows something about the business knows better than to claim to know what prevented someone from gaining admittance on the basis of the scant evidence GB provides.  If Prof. Ethan is a genuine prof, Prof. Ethan should know better. If UC Berkeley is purging conservatives by means of the admission process, I think many philosophers would find this objectionable.  I suspect that most philosophers don't think they have good evidence that this is occurring whereas the members of the APA they have fantastically strong evidence that some schools are discriminating against members of the APA--these schools tell them that this is what they are doing!  So, while I think that claims of the form 'They don't care about X, so they are hypocrites because they complain about Y' are typically dubious, these claims are especially dubious here.  Maybe Prof. Ethan and GB think we should start objecting to policies before the evidence comes in like they do, but I think most philosophers wouldn't agree that that's a sensible policy.

    If Prof. Ethan or GB could provide clear and compelling evidence that the effect of the UC Berkeley system is the unjust purging of conservatives, I think many philosophers would be up in arms.  So, give us the goods.  And by that I mean evidence.  And while hearsay, conjecture, and anecdotal evidence are kinds of evidence, maybe you could provide us with the good kind.   

  • Quite Right, Prof. Ethan
  • Posted by Juniper Ragsriches on November 25, 2009 at 1:00pm EST
  • Non-white male conservatives are more and more at a premim in a new global marketplace. Conservative white males are the new outcasts, guilty by association with fundamentalists. Although Terry Eagleton is here lumping Islamic and Christian fundamentalists together, note the tone. He could well be referring to what DFS, above, capitalizes as "the Law":

    "Yet if there is no clarity, if no meaning is free from metaphor and ambiguity, how are we to construct a solid enough basis for our lives in a world too swift and slippery for us to find a foothold?

    "This is not an anxiety to be scoffed at. There is nothing quaint or red-neck about searching for some *terra firma* in a world in which men and women are asked to reinvent themselves overnight, in which pensions are abruptly wiped out by corporate greed and deceit, or in which whole ways of life are tossed casually on the scrapheap [as when corporations and the market start 'leveraging' diversity at the 'expense' of the white male? ]. It is unpleasant to feel that you are treading on thin air. Most people expect a spot of security in their personal lives so why shouldn't they demand it in social life as well? They are not necessarily fundamentalists for doing so.

    "Fundamentalism is just a diseased version of this desire. It is a neurotic hunt for solid foundations to our existence, an inability to accept that human life is a matter not of treading on thin air, but of *roughness*. Roughness from a fundamentalist viewpoint can only look like a disastrous lack of clarity and exactitude, rather as someone might feel that not to measure Everest down to the last millmetre is to leave us completely stumped about how high it is. It is not surprising that fundamentalism can see nothing in the body and sexuality except perils to be suppressed, since in one sense all flesh is rough, and in one sense all sex is rough trade.

    "[The fundamentalist] is really a more pathological version of the conservative--for the conservative, too, suspects that if there are not watertight rules and exact limits then there can only be chaos. . . . . Conservatives are fond of what one might call the argument from the floodgates: once you allow one person to be sick out of the car window without imposing a lengthy gaol sentence, then before you know where you are motorists will be throwing up out of their vehicles all the time, and the roads will become impassable. Luminously clear laws, exhaustive definitions and self-evident principles are all that stand between us and the collapse of civilization. The truth is rather the opposite: the paranoid principles of fundamentalism are far more likely to bring civilization crashing to the ground than cynicism or agnosticism" (Terry Eagleton, 2003, *After Theory*: 203-05).

    Such is the leftwing pc "thinking" conservative pc thinking is up against.

     

  • Jumping to conclusions
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 25, 2009 at 1:00pm EST
  • "Prof Ethan" says:
    As I warned Guilty Bystander, whose outstanding undergraduate son failed to get into grad school in philosophy b/c he answered honestly an offensive "personal statement" eliciting victimization from applicants.
    He also claims that"they", apparently referring to all philosophers, would be concerned about the Berkeley application, if they were concerned about all unfair discrimination. He then further claims that "they" are not.
    It is breathtaking how much faulty reasoning one "prof" can pack into such a short post. First, there is the assumption that "Guilty Bystander"'s (what is it with these people who won't post under their actual names?) "outstanding" undergraduate son failed to get into grad school in philosophy "b/c" he answered the personal statement honestly. An anonymous poster posts a story implying bias, and "prof ethan" (who may be the same person as "Guilty Bystander" for all anyone on this forum knows) simply assumes that there was bias. I assume that "Prof Ethan" is not a "Prof" of philosophy. I would hope that the justified bias against faulty reasoning would have kept him from a job in a philosophy department.
    So, how is the reasoning faulty? Let me count the ways. First, there's the assumption that the required statement plays a role in admission decisions. If you read the admissions information for Berkeley both on the web and in the downloadable pdf, you will see that some fellowships are specifically designed to enhance diversity. Some fellowships also come from private donations that have specific eligibility requirements. I presume that conservative white males, of all people, will not disapprove of individuals doing what they want with their own money, even when what they want to do is endow fellowships for specific demographic groups (or do libertarian principles go out the window when individuals use their freedom to benefit the less fortunate?). So, for all anyone can tell from the application, the supposedly offensive questions on the personal statement may only have a bearing on whether the applicant is eligible for certain fellowships, not on admissions or eligibility for other fellowships and departmentally based funding.
    Further, anyone who has been involved with admissions decisions to graduate school in philosophy knows that such statements have absolutely no bearing on admissions. Such university-wide requirements are ignored by the philosophers ranking applicants. Once we have our rankings, we then see what further sources of funding are available for the applicants we have ranked at the top. If one of the top applicants is eligible for one of the special initiative sources of funding, that's great. It means the departmental sources can stretch further.
    So, there's a bunch of assumptions about what role the personal statement plays in admissions to Berkeley, none of which are backed up by evidence. Then, more egregiously, there's the classic "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. The son with the outstanding record filled out the personal statement in the "wrong" way, and subsequently wasn't offered admission to several schools with statements like Berkeley's. Note that "Guilty Bystander" didn't say that his/her son failed to get into grad school in philosophy, only that he didn't get into those schools. What could possibly explain this? Well, it must be the personal statement, right "Prof"? It couldn't possibly be anything else. After all, as "Guilty Bystander" tells us, the son had an "outstanding" record. Do you have any idea how competitive grad admissions in philosophy are? Berkeley's philosophy department is ranked 9th in the US. At Colorado, ranked 26th, we had 250 applications for 5 slots in the Ph.D program last year. There were many outstanding candidates who didn't even make the wait list. I'm sure Berkeley had even more applicants than we did.
    So, having assumed, on the basis of reasoning so faulty that a first-year critical thinking course would have cured him of it, that schools like Berkeley unfairly discriminate against conservative white males, "Prof Ethan" claims that philosophers both should be concerned about this, and that we aren't. If a school has as part of its stated admissions criteria that it will not admit conservative white males, we most certainly should be concerned about it. However, as far as I know, none do. Many schools do, however, have as part of their stated admissions and hiring criteria that they will not admit or hire active homosexuals. If "Prof Ethan" can't see the difference between these cases, I can't believe that he's a "Prof" of anything.

  • Eagleton, really?
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at Univeversity of Colorado on November 25, 2009 at 1:30pm EST
  • Well "Juniper Ragsriches", what exactly does a lengthy quote from that academic charlatan Terry Eagleton have to do with the APA, which I thought was the topic of this article and comment thread? You clearly haven't a clue about academic philosophy, if you don't know that philosophers are the toughest critics of literary theorists. We base our criticism on reason though, rather than on the completely unsupported assertion that the "left-wing" (as if there really were such a monolithic entity) assumes that what Eagleton says about "fundamentalists" applies equally to all conservative white males. In assuming that the attitudes attributed to passe literary theorists characterize the attitudes of philosophers, you are making the very mistake that you attribute to the "left-wing" in lumping together dangerous religious fundamentalists with all conservative white males. Are you just "Prof Ethan" under another fake name? The reasoning is certainly faulty enough.

  • Bravo, Prof. Norcross
  • Posted by Juniper Ragsriches on November 25, 2009 at 2:15pm EST
  • Reason is best accompanied by "close reading." Go back and look. Note the first paragraph, called a framing device. See again the last paragraph as well.

    When my students come to me with writer's block, I ask, "How many times have you read the text?" "Oh, I read it once." Then I say, "Good. Now go read it again. When you've read it seven times, come back and we'll talk."

    Thanks, by the way, for clarifying the issue of the personal statement for Prof. Ethan. I suspected as much.

  • Sorry if I misunderstood, Juniper
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 25, 2009 at 5:00pm EST
  • I'm sorry, Juniper, if I misunderstood your intent. I have just reread both the first and last paragraphs of your post eight times, and it still isn't clear to me what you are trying to do with your framing device. I appreciate that the quotation marks enclosing "thinking" signify your disdain for the intellectual content of Eagleton's writing, and, as I've said, I and most philosophers I know share that disdain. I still don't know why you posted such a long quote from a literary theorist in a comment thread about the actions of the American Philosophical Association. I suppose I'm just used to reading philosophy articles, where clarity of thought and argumentation is a common (though not universal) feature. If a student came to me with a paper constructed along the lines of your post, I would send him/her away to rewrite it so that the point is clearer. But perhaps you're just too subtle for me.
    You're welcome, by the way, regarding the clarifications about the Berkeley-style personal statement. I should stress, though, that my direct knowledge of such statements having no bearing on admissions decisions is limited to philosophy. I certainly hope that they have no bearing on admissions decisions in other graduate departments, but I am not an expert on that.

  • Too "Subtle"?
  • Posted by Juniper Ragsriches on November 25, 2009 at 5:45pm EST
  • I confess to a recourse to irony. Yes, Eagleton is no philosopher. At least he owns it. Yet he steeps himself in philosophy and applies it to literature and cultural critique.

    He tries to outdo Adorno for "dialectical exploration" over against, do I say? analytical philosophy. Only he manages to throw a pithy and witty stle into the mix.

    My point is that "left" and "right" (you are keen to point out that these are not monoliths) are psycho-social orientations. Each thinks the other is crazy. Nevertheless, I believe the two can and should talk to one another. A "forum" such as this is less than ideal. It's more like a masquerade ball with everybody slinging hash.

    By the way, the controversy over pseudonyms has been occasionally discussed on IHE. Many have what sound to me like very good reasons for remaining anonymous. But it does lead to shooting from the hip. I take almost everything I read here with a bale of salt.

  • Dialogue
  • Posted by Alastair Norcross , Associate Professor, Philosophy at University of Colorado on November 25, 2009 at 9:30pm EST
  • I think I'm starting to see what you mean, Juniper. I'm not sure I would entirely agree that "left" and "right" are "psycho-social orientations". I'm sure there's some of that involved, but there's also some plain disagreement over ethical and empirical matters. For example, some people identify themselves are right-wing, because they think that government is less capable of running things than individuals and/or businesses. I had a colleague who professed that reason for being right-wing. Alas, his evidence for the claim was rather insubstantial. He could only cite the rather inefficient bus service he had used as a child, as an example of government inefficiency. As a philosopher, he should have realized that he was generalizing from a very small sample size. There are, of course, some things that governments are typically not very good at. There are also other things that governments do far better than individuals or businesses. That is the kind of discussion that is quite possible, and indeed actual. Others profess to being right-wing on ethical grounds. Sometimes libertarianism is the cited ethical basis. In many cases, the libertarianism is really just a second-order view, grounded by some version of utilitarianism. I have a friend at Arizona who is quite a well-known libertarian philosopher. Whenever we discuss his views (and in many of writings), he eventually falls back on the claim that societies with more individual liberty tend to flourish more, or be happier. This is a perfectly respectable view, and, within limits, it might even be true. There is some interesting recent research to suggest, though, that individual choice, beyond a quite small amount, actually reduces happiness. At this point, we are back to a largely empirical discussion, and a quite fruitful one. It is also a discussion that actually takes place. Other libertarians have a more basic commitment to the value of individual liberty. They will claim that individual liberty is so valuable that it trumps other values, such as individual welfare or life. In order for this to generate a right-wing view, it must be combined with the claim that there is a fundamental moral difference between doing and allowing. Hence, we get what is sometimes called "left libertarianism". The debate over libertarianism, and which version is better, is lively and actual.

    My point is that I entirely agree that the "left" and the "right" can and should talk to each other. In philosophy they do. Of course, there are also some people who identify as right-wing, because they think that their religion demands it. They may also think that an all-powerful supernatural being created the universe, hates homosexuality, condemns abortion, and decrees that the free market is the only acceptable form of economic organization. They might also think that this being created the universe a mere six thousand or so years ago, complete with dinosaur bones to fool us, or perhaps with living dinosaurs that he then wiped out in the flood because they wouldn't fit on the arc (I'm not making this bit up--I've seen the creationist children's book that makes this claim). It's less clear that it's possible to engage in actual debate with people who have some of these beliefs. Many opinion surveys suggest that an alarmingly large number of Americans (as many as 50%) have some of these beliefs, in particular the beliefs about the age of the universe. Some of these people may be swayed by scientific evidence. Others will take seriously Martin Luther's claim that reason is the greatest enemy that faith has, which is true, but they will draw the wrong conclusion from that. Of course, the inability to take reason seriously is not confined to those who identify themselves as right-wing. I have met a few marxists who were almost as invulnerable to reason as young-earth creationists. by all means, the "left" and the "right" should talk to each other. The reasonable members of each "group" will profit from it. Let's not fool ourselves, though, into thinking that rational dialogue is always possible.

    Happy Thanksgiving, if you're in the US. And even if you aren't, have a happy Thursday November 26th. As a utilitarian, I believe in the value of happiness.

  • A Further Question
  • Posted by Juniper Ragsriches on November 26, 2009 at 6:00am EST
  • Prof. Norcross,
    I hit "submit" prematurely due to a pressing interruption.

    I apologize for taking us even farther afield. But I did want to ask just what is the nature of academic phiolosophers' being "the harshest critics" of literary theorists. Is it for doing literary theory, or amateurish use of the philosophical record with which to do it?

    What do you think of Eagleton's concept of "roughness" above?