UNBELIEVEABLE Self entitled, ill mannered people

I thought you were talking about a HIGH SCHOOL CLASS when you started off...Then I found out it was a COLLEGE class? No wonder myself and other colleagues really truly want to leave the profession for good. As a high school teacher of nearly 15 years, I am actively looking for other work. WHY? Because not only are people raising kids who are more and more self involved, selfish and just plain rude, they are raising lazy, horribly mannered people who think that the world revolves around them every minute of the day and that they are NEVER wrong about anything. WHEN did it become commonplace to tell any teacher to F*** off or even mouth off to any person in a professional place? Students who just leave are unbearably rude.

Granted, I am among many women who have to be extremely careful not to drink much before any outing or I might have a serious problem. But I have never, ever had a college class where people have just left the room during the lecture or anything else. We have ALWAYS waited for the break and if it IS just a 75 minute class, until it is OVER. High School students are being shown by their parents how to manipulate everything from being late, to going to the bathroom and now colleges have to deal with the ever increasing behavior problems that plague our schools. It’s reprehensible.

I am truly sick and tired of not being able to actually TEACH a class because I have to continually deal with behavior issues. It used to be a couple of kids in a class but over the last 10 years, it has grown into groups of students who actively seek to disrupt. Too many of our new teachers are quitting outright after less than a year of teaching because nothing is being done about it. This society really doesn’t value education. Over the past 25 years, we have seen nothing but lip servicee paid by politicians, parents, the general public, and administrators about how much the “love kids and value education as a real necessity in life". Yet in the REAL world, the ever growing message is that it isn’t “cool” to be educated, and that being thin, rich, and popular is ALL that anyone should strive for. We have fallen so far down in the world rankings in education that it’s just a joke to try to tell other countries that we are still “the best place to get an education in the world". We are NOT. We glorify the people who are stupid, play stupid or who actively make careers out of being stupid. Any parent who tells their kids “Oh, I was bad in spelling TOO” or “Math was hard for me and I never have to use it” is automatically sending the all encompassing message of “Don’t worry, you don’t really have to learn, learning is for unpopular people. If you want to be cool, then party, watch TV, play on the computer and have a life FILLED with everything you want to do.". THUS, we have people who can’t spell, read, get decent jobs and who BLAME everyone else because of it. They are in college with 3 kids and a couple of jobs trying to make up for what they didn’t bother to do in high school. And in college, they aren’t acting ANY BETTER. The poor professors are relegated to teaching remedial basics most of the time to students who can’t function like professional, mannered, studious, teachable adults! It’s just awful. The bathroom issue is just a minor chink in a much larger fissure of a degrading society. Just watch the parade of politicians who will give us all the usual platitudes about education for the next 2 years and watch it go back to the same as usual stance as soon as the elections are over. We as a nation are just “too cool” for education and now we are going to pay for it over decades. It will only stop when there really aren’t enough teachers around-and truly learned, qualified ones at that. We’ll go through years of “discovering” all the crap that most people HAVE to hire now and scratch our behinds in amazement. Then, when we have really fallen on hard times as a nation, we MIGHT get the message that we have to accept that life is full of hard work, education MEANS something, INTRINSIC motivation and learning for the sake of learning IS more valuable than that car and the granite countertops and that TREATING good educators as gold is paramount. Just because we choose to TEACH doesn’t mean we can’t DO and many of us are choosing to DO instead. The losses will be staggering. So, something as simple as having students just LEAVE your room will CEASE.

Eliza, at 12:20 pm EDT on August 30, 2007

bathroom breaks

I share the puzzlement about students’ nonchalance in tending to bodily needs in the classroom. But we’re living in a time when people on network television eat bugs for money, so perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised. I’ve started adding a section on the course syllabus entitled “Things that annoy me, so don’t do them,” and list the offending behaviors. It doesn’t necessarily change what students do, but at least I feel justified when I get cranky with them about it.

Lynne Curry, Associate Professor at Eastern Illinois University, at 10:31 am EST on March 4, 2005

Terry, get over yourself. Your students are not your children, and it isn’t your job to teach them manners. They are paying customers. If they leave the classroom, they will miss out on the material you are presenting, and they will have to deal with that knowledge gap when you test them.

Samwise, at 12:54 pm EST on March 4, 2005

Bathroom breaks

Ah, those bathroom breaks! They can be even more annoying when a cell phone starts ringing inside a bag and its owner is, you guessed it, “in the bathroom.”

I have taken the initiative to tell my students, in the beginning of the semester, that if they must “go potty” and can’t hold it for a 75 minute class, maybe they don’t belong in college. If someone has a medically proven condition that requires him/her to leave the class at certain intervals, I want that clarified with me, in a private conversation, and I’ll take measures (make sure the student sits closer to the door, for instance.)

By the way: I do not agree that our students are our customers. The pervailing attitude in American society at this moment may say they are, but we, teachers, should try to (gently, if possible) disabuse the students of this ridiculous notion. For starters, If I was going to sell education, the price would be a lot higher than the salary I get for teaching.

Eva, at 8:18 pm EST on March 4, 2005

Bathroom breaks

Zounds! What are you wasting energy worrying about? Consider this personal/private business: ignore it. There can be/are valid reasons to leave during a class ("bodily functions", health, family, life outside the classroom, etc.) I ignore when a student leaves and impute no motives to them. They make their choices. Leaving a room happens everywhere, in and out of academia. Ignore it; it’s neither your business nor responsibility. If it makes you that wild, send the habitual ‘offenders’ private e-mails — but it’s not a classroom matter. You may well compound the situation/alleged “offense” by drawing attention to it, thereby disrupting class further yourself. That being said, ringing cell phones and side chats — those are another matter entirely!

Mary Fran, at 9:15 pm EST on March 4, 2005

Whatever happened to classroom management? At the inner city high school where I teach it is not a problem at all. I don’t let them go to the “restroom.” I have used the same approach over the years during my tenure as an adjunct faculty member at various community colleges. Students are simply not permitted to use the restroom on my time. Of course, there are times when a student explains “it’s an emergency.” In my class, since no one is ever permitted to leave, emergency it is and a pass is issued! Students understand the school’s policies and the inforcement of the rules. What happens at the college level has to do with the philosopy and whims of the individual professor. It seems those who are unsure as how to handle student behavior are just as unsure about what some Dean might say if the kid complains. Those who don’t give a damn about whether students are disrupting class with their perpetual motion seem to have given up on confronting a student for any reason: just go with the flow. It seems to me that the real problem here is about managing or mismanaging one’s classroom. Know your options; let the student’s know the classroom policies. If a student cannot commit to a simplistic structure of rules from within the classroom to work and learn, how in the world can one expect a student to generate his own self-imposed rigors of study necessary for a formal education? Those of us who teach high school knows there is more at stake here than just taking a piss!

Nick, High School English teacher, at 12:23 pm EST on March 5, 2005

Regarding this remark by Ms. Curry: “I share the puzzlement about students’ nonchalance in tending to bodily needs in the classroom.” I, for one, insist that my students take careof their bodily needs either in the bathroom or their dorm room. But my classroom? Never!

L Woodson, at 9:36 pm EST on March 5, 2005

Let them go

I let them go. It seems ridiculous for me to contest their proclaimed excretory urges.

If they miss important material while they’re out, that’s their problem. They’ll fail, or do poorly, if they use the restroom as a way to skip class.

I assume that they are adults, even if they don’t act as adults.

Generally, I let sleepers sleep, unless they’re snoring. Let them snooze and lose.

I draw the line at large food items, newspaper reading, littering, and rank shows of disrespect for me or for their classmates.

For that, I kick them out of the room.

I do not let them back in until they meet with me personally. Fortunately, the institution I work for allows me that authority.

Yours should, too.

Let’s neither be control freaks nor doormats.

kmb, huh?, at 9:25 pm EST on March 7, 2005

Good grief, you’re a bit of a nutcase, aren’t you? It’s just a pee break. Sometimes a person just has to go. Would you rather I peed the seat, or bled on it? Not everyone’s body is on the same schedule as yours.

Do we have a bit of a potty training thing, maybe?

Stephanie, at 10:38 pm EST on March 7, 2005

Classes interrupt life

It is interesting how some of the last posts—clearly from students—inform us, teachers, of something we should have been aware of a long time ago: classes interrupt LIFE! And under the category LIFE there are so many things (not just the potty break) that need to be taken care of, IMMEDIATELY.

Maybe what some smart, hand-on-the-audience’s pulse kind of administrator should propose is that classes be more tightly regulated, and placed where they actually belong, just outside a bathroom with stalls fitted with telephones and baby-cams for those who need to check on babies and goings-on in their homes. Ah, of course, the stalls could also have some other necessities such as drinks, snaks, feminine napkin dispensers, batteries (for the cell phones)and, why not, condoms too? Come to think of it, the bathroom stalls should also be fitted for comfy beds to accommodate two people. Things can get interesting after hearing a lecture on, say, deconstruction.

The teacher, well, who cares? He/she’s being paid, after all! The students are the customers! Isn’t this the Wall mart society? the customer is always right. Welcome to our shop and can I help you.

And, anytime a teacher interrupts the necessary things the students are attending to, the teacher will have points taken off (salary, promotion). Those who insist and do not repent, should lose their tenure. After all, the students have rights, and the rights to pee, shop, chat, have sex, or, more simply, attend to LIFE, should be respected.

Classes be damned.

Elsa, at 11:19 am EST on March 8, 2005

After reading the comments by the people who think its so wrong to go to the restroom during class, I must say: Oh brother.

The fact that someone wrote an entire.... “article” on students going to the bathroom is sad, no offense. As it has been stated several, several times on here by the more logical people: People who think its wrong for students to leave during class, and think its right to interject and stop them, are making this a much bigger deal than it should be. The obvious logical fallacy here is that, those who are complaining leaving to go to the bathroom is such a horrible distraction (which is a ridiculous exageration, people may turn their heads for a second, so what? the “distraction” is extremely short). If a instructor gets into an argument or questions them about it, they are REALLY creating a distraction (because it now has just gone from someone walking out, to becoming verbal, and also the instructor is no longer instructing, rather asking why they are leaving), and then if the instructor dared to try and tell them they couldnt go, it could turn into a 10 minute debate between the student and the professor, where as if the professor would have just let them go, there would be no problems or distractions. If a instructor is going to act like a totalitarian dictator and not let students go, or tell them things like if they leave they cannot come back, or that there grade will be be lowered, then they should except the student will go to the dean, and they should expect some punishment for their cruel, unethical threats.

As stated, the real distrcations are things like cell phones going off, people eating (if they where chewing real loud and being obnoxious, that is), people talking during class, etc. Of course if students make distractions in class like that, you have every right to kick them out, for disrupting the learning environment. But again, leaving to go to the bathroom is not a real distraction, get over yourself, and stop exagerating. In making a big deal of it, you are only hurting yourself, and if you make a big deal of it, chances are the student will as well, and it could turn into a big, uneccessary conflict, that shouldnt even arise to begin with. And also as it has already been stated, if the student where to just hold it and not go, do you think they would be paying attention? the answer is no, though they may be in the classroom, they would be thinking about how bad they have to go to the bathroom, not what you are saying. One simply cannot concentrate when they have to go to the bathroom, for that is all they can be thinking out. And that also can cause REAL distractions, them squirming, crossing their legs, shaking legs, etc, which the students will begin to notice. Again, you are just being completly illogical and ignorant if you think the real distraction is people going to the bathroom, for it that, among other things I and others have stated that are the real distractions teachers should be worried about.

Its simple: Students should be allowed to go to the bathroom whenever they want or leave whenever they want. And it has been stated multiple times, whatever material they miss, its their fault, your not there to hold their hand. If a teacher tries to prevent someone from going to the bathroom, they should be warned, and fired if it continues, period. The students are not there for you, they are there because they WANT to continue their OPTIONAL education, not to have their basic rights taken away from them. You are there to HELP them, to EDUCATE them, not to ORDER them around.

And in actually, the students are somewhat like the customers, and the teachers are like the workers. Whether if the students, or if their parents are paying, they are still paying the school for their education, and in turn the professors receive their pay from this. As far as your rules: I’m sure the serious and good students will follow the FAIR and LOGICAL rules you may set down, such as no cellphones during class, no talking during class, no being rude, etc. Generally, if you respect them and are nice to them, they will be nice back. But if you are going to have totalitarian rules, like punishments for going to the bathroom, then how do you expect to get respected, for having rules like that? If you do not show respect, you will not get respect.

I don’t get why the teachers view their lecture as “their time". You are there to educate the students, not to glorify yourself and your ego. The clasroom should be the students, just as much as it is the teachers, in a college, ADULT environment. In college, everyone in the class room is an adult. What good are your lectures, if no one respects you or wants to listen? In short, a teacher who does not care about their students needs, tries to take away basic rights, and only cares about “their time", is not a good teacher.

Just so you know, I am not a college teacher, nor in college yet: I just graduated High School, and will be going to college in the fall.

Another thing is, do you even realize how contradicting it is, to claim you are preparing people for the “real” world, yet you try and make rules to where they can’t go to the bathroom? In the real world, you go to the bathroom whenever you want, without asking. I’m sure even in jobs, where you get paid, you go whenever you want, and would only get in trouble if you took a long, unreasonable amount of time. Of course when you are being paid, and you are there to help them out, its a quite different situation from when you are the one paying.

If you do not want problems, don’t create them, it’s really that simple.

Ryan, at 11:01 pm EDT on June 27, 2005

HOLD YOUR HORSES OR THEY WILL FALL OFF THE CLIFF

As a retired teacher, I have been following the lively debate about bathroom breaks with great interest. It is fascinating to see the wide range of opinions surrounding this most human need—to go to the bathroom. Of course, there are emergencies, and we have all had those. Teachers, even the most demanding, know when they are confronted with a real one. And then there are fakeries that students use to just walk out of the class, and let those remaining sitting to deal with the interruption.

Does this need “to go out” reflect the increasing problems with attention deficit existing in otherwise perfectly healthy people? Are students’ brains nowadays wired to take only about half an hour of instruction before they need to get some outside air? Is this an effect of video games, or genetically modified food, or just plain lack of discipline in the home? Granted, there are those students who, like the worker who needs “to step out,” have a valid reason for getting out for a minute. The trouble, in a classroom, is that if more and more students keep walking out and then back, without any restraint, this will affect the whole class development. The teacher, for better or for worse, is not a machine that can be rewound at will to re-deliver the words and/or explanations just delivered in order to satisfy the student/s who went out and upon their return are completely lost. The teacher, even though so many students do not believe this, is a human being. He or she will become distracted by the interruption. He or she will become irritated by the interruption. And the interruption irritates and disturbs other students as well.

Unfortunately, it seems that the discussion on this issue, after the timely presentation in Caesar’s article, has mostly taken a turn for the worse, though. If attitudes of people like “BV” (and a few others) is taken as indicative of the general attitude students have towards the whole classroom experience (having to sit, participate in the class, not move in and out at will, be subjected to the teacher’s authority) then American education is really going downhill. I wonder what students like BV would feel if he ever joined the military, for example. Or if he ever attended a church service. Or if he ever participated in a dinner with other adults.

No, “BV,” you cannot thumb your nose, burp, or wipe your mouth with the tablecloth during dinner (or do other “physical things” I’d rather not mention). Just the same, you should refrain from going in an out of the classroom. The classroom was NOT set only for YOU. Other people are there to learn, not just to watch person become disruptive and disrespectful. Mind your manners, if you don’t want to have your rudeness turned against you. You can be told to go to your room and end up without your dinner.

Logan, at 4:54 pm EST on March 8, 2005

Good heavens, man. Don’t you (and all the other teachers here who are so inordinately concerned with controlling their students’ bladders and bowells) have better things to worry about? And, since you asked, yes I am a college professor, at a top-10 school at that.

John Boswell, at 4:33 am EST on March 9, 2005

kayoko Ueno, Bathroom Breaks, at 9:48 pm EST on March 9, 2005

Bathroom Breaks

Are you kidding me?!!! College students are adults and certainly should not be subjected to the indignity of ‘asking permission’ to go to the bathroom. Sure, such things should be taken care of before class but sometimes that’s just not possible. Students have very busy schedules, with classes, homework, families and jobs. The very notion of students’ bathroom breaks being discussed has an underlying connotation of disrespect of students, who, by the way, pay our salaries!

Esther Manogin, at 8:54 am EST on March 11, 2005

To John Boswell and others, I think Terry’s point can be seen in his discussion about the student who demanded that her grade be changed. Terry uses the bathroom issue to lead to that, which is part of other issues, including the view of the university as a mall or circus (where some students who can easily dress in a professional manner come to class half-naked), the absence of common courtesy, students’ lack of responsibility and discipline, most students’ uninformed views of education, subjects, and activities like reading, the emphasis on grades and grade inflation (for starters, did that student actually deserve an A-? that, in a situation where in some top 10 universities 75 percent of students now receive Bs and A), generally the view of universities as extensions of high school if not finishing schools, the over-emphasis on sports, frats, and drinking, etc.

We should have a website with a forum for teachers who can talk about these issues with other professors (with links to their blogs). If students can come up with sites and blogs where they rank and call their professors “dummies,” then we should come up with a site to respond to that and other issues.

Ralfy, at 10:20 am EST on March 11, 2005

classroom/bathroom

I tell my students that this isn’t high school and no state law requires them to be present. I point out that by the same token, no rule predicts the outcome of their enrollment in the course. They may come and go as they please, as though it were their workplace, as long as they don’t prevent the rest of us from working. Common sense tells them what the limits are. EXCEPT, last semester when a student in my honors course not only cut class but called a member of the class, during class, to find out if I had returned the papers and if so would her friend ask me what her grade was. I was actually thrilled by the chutzpah of the whole thing, it was so over the top.

chris, at 12:31 pm EST on March 11, 2005

Defining a classroom community

Whatever our opinions about Terry Caesar, at the very least his article provides an opportunity for us to step back and think about how we, our students, our institutions, and other segments of a culture define a college class—particularly instructors’ relationships to students and students’ relationships to the other students in the class.

Perhaps this question of how a college class can or should be defined hasn’t occurred to a number of people, though I would assume that most instructors have given it thought. How many students and members of the general public have (or even administrators)? How many people see “the classroom” only as part of a larger system of education, which is perceived only in terms of one’s own experiences as a student or in terms of an abstract, general notion of hierarchies and rules?

Moving to some specific metaphors for the classroom: there are some people (perhaps many) who see the college classroom from a commercial perspective, with students as “customers” and instructors as—vendors? For this way of seeing to be logically consistent, then doesn’t it make sense to adopt the “customer is always right” mantra of retail, which gives the “customer” perhaps an ultimate power to decide what to “buy"? In that case, then, why should the “customer” have to abide by the “vendor’s” terms—ie., in terms of required assignments, attendance policies, and of course grades? Why then shouldn’t students have the right to take whatever courses they wish rather than follow a prescribed curriculum?

In addition, since it would be difficult if not impossible for all of the “customers” of a particular course to agree upon one collective set of desires, each “customer” needs to be treated individually. And, of course, the “customer” need think only of his or her own needs, and not that of anybody else in the class. So, getting up and leaving whenever for whatever reason, whether a physical necessity or not, is part of the package. Doing what one wants in class, whether engaging in cell phone vocal or text conversations, doing homework for another class, reading the paper, playing Solitaire on a computer, should also be okay. Under this metaphor, the “customer” is accountable to no one but him or herself—not even to fellow classmates. As long as a “customer” gets what he or she is paying for, then does it matter how his or her behavior affects others, both instructor and other students?

Moving to another (somewhat related) perspective: how many instructors, administrators, students, and others see the classroom through a professional-client metaphor? With this way of looking at the subject, the client and professional need to work together more, the latter does end up setting up the terms more, and the client also is held accountable more than in the customer trope. In some (though not all) cases, the client also bears some responsibility for providing at least raw material (eg., one’s receipts, etc. for a tax preparer), can be charged a no-show fee for missing a scheduled appointment, and bears responsibility for following through (eg., with medical tests, medication, etc.). However, the one-on-one relationship of professional-client doesn’t match the mass approach to education.

How many people see the classroom through a metaphor of political structure (monarchy, democracy. . .)? The one-to-group relationship of a leader of a political state matches the instructor-class relationship, and certainly within a society the citizens bear some responsibility towards others. Since there are a number of different political structures, I won’t analyze them. However, I do wonder to what extent many instructors, administrators, and some non-education people subconsciously see the classroom as if it were a political structure? And if so, which one?

I myself (and, I know, a number of others) prefer a rhetorical metaphor: seeing the classroom as a learning/discourse community. Since the development and history of rhetoric in at least Western culture is to a certain extent tied to the political structures, the rhetorical and political models share a number of features. However, what the rhetorical metaphor offers that the political doesn’t is a focus on communication, on sharing and constructing knowledge.

Seeing the classroom as a discourse or learning community means that everyone is accountable to others, but also that the rules that develop are more consensual and framed to fit the needs of that particular learning community than imposed from above or the product of just one person’s whims. Under this metaphor, such necessities as bathroom breaks are understood to be appropriate when they’re necessary and when, if possible, they don’t interfere with that person’s role in the community. Eg., if a person takes an extended break during group work, the rest of the group ends up having to shoulder the work. If someone continually walks in or out, talks on the phone, does other work, that person is sending a clear message to the rest of the class that the other students (and the instructor) aren’t worthy of a basic respect and that what the class is doing isn’t worthwhile. That person is choosing to separate him or herself from the rest of the community; in that case, policies which come from the instructor (or which in some “democratically” structured classes are constructed by the class at the beginning of the semester) can be applied.

Under this metaphor, when a student becomes part of the class by enrolling in it, he or she understands that the policies, expectations, assignments, etc. identified on the first day of class define that community. If the student finds these unacceptable, the student can choose to withdraw from the course. By remaining in the community, a student would be implicitly agreeing to be a productive member of that community (even if a student is afraid to make comments during class participation; productive membership can occur in a number of ways outside class discussion).

The classroom is, in fact, the “real world"—the real world of an academic community. Actually, to oppose the classroom to some amorphous, monolithic, generalized concept of the workplace is to fail to see that, as someone has pointed out—many of the same dynamics that exist in the classroom can also be found in committee meetings in many white-collar jobs.

So, what are we trying to accomplish in a classroom? Generally, I assume the answer to be learning (acquiring new facts and/or new skills, developing understanding). If that’s the purpose, then what kind of metaphor might most appropriately fit?

Connie Ostrowski, Professor, at 4:50 pm EST on March 11, 2005

What does it really matter?

Students are going to have to use the bathroom. It is their CHOICE to do so. Remember, in college, they are PAYING to be in the class, so if they decide to leave, who are we to stop them. It’s like someone going to the bathroom during a movie. Should we stop them because they are interrupting someone else’s movie experience, even though they are choosing to be there by paying to get in? There are numerous people, such as myself, that suffer from an overactive and/or small bladder. I have to go at least 15-20 times a day. Should I be punished for that? This is the problem with higher ed. You make such a big deal about little things that you overlook some of the more important issues, such as high school to college adjustment, rising tuition costs, low pay for instuctors in comparison to administrators, etc. Remember, we are all people and if a student chooses to go to the bathroom, so be it, it is the student’s loss for missing the instuction.

Dennis Meier, Teacher/Adjunct Faculty at High School/University, at 9:30 pm EDT on August 29, 2005

LET STUDENTS GO

I’d just like to say that today one of my best friends didn’t have a chance to go to the bathroom at break and so she asked to go during our next class, which was a block period (meaning it’s even longer than regular days, it’s one and a half hours long)! Our teacher would not let her go to the bathroom because it’s “his rule"! I was so angry! Here was my friend, on the verge of tears, knee shaking because she had to go so bad...she couldn’t even concentrate on her work because it wasn’t comfortable to sit! She hadn’t gone since 4 a.m. that morning when she went to rowing practice!! So him not letting her go lead to: her not being able to concentrate, me not being able to concentrate because I was worried, and the people around me not being able to concentrate! Plus her face was turning red and she looked like she was going to start crying. I could tell how badly she had to go and yet he wouldn’t let her. Then FINALLY, after about an hour and ten minutes into the period (she had asked at the beginning of the period to go) she asked him again. First he said no, saying it was his rule. Then he jokingly asked “What, did you drink a gallon of water or something?". Smiling! He was actually smiling while she was in pain and about to CRY. Then she explained that she hadn’t gone since 4 in the morning and he said “Fine...go, but now I have to let EVERYONE go". I mean at least he let her go! But not until we had like 20 minutes left of class and even then he barely let her go! Last week a student asked him and she really had to go too and he never let her go despite her mentioning the possibility of getting a bladder infection. I think that TEACHERS SHOULD LET STUDENTS GO TO THE BATHROOM. It’s a basic human right to the bathroom and there is no way that preventing someone from that right is legal! I am angry and shocked that he won’t let anyone go to the bathroom and actually thinks its FUNNY somehow that he gets to control us in that way! He should have let my friend go right when she first asked and everything would have been fine. Instead he had to be asked more than once and convinced when she had been in PAIN for an hour and ten minutes, not to mention the hour and ten minutes of class she had before that class! RIDICULOUS

Sara, at 9:29 pm EDT on October 13, 2005

bathroom breaks

First of all.. It is not legal to tell someone that they can NOT use a bathroom. So to tell them to go ahead but dont come back to class is not any more legal either. It is blackballing a student to choose to remain healthy and respond to ones bodily needs as well as hygiene factors for girls , or stay in class. I would sue your butts off. Further more Who the hell do you think you are telling someone what their bodies do or dont need. YOur bottoms are the first to sip coffee, snack, or make freedom choices of YOUR needs. How about a student tell you, that your private calls, notes, amusements, bodily functions, and likes and dislikes has no place in their education. Your their to teach them their subject. Not try to potty train or anything else.. stop wasting their money and time as well.

cari, at 5:35 am EDT on October 11, 2006

As a university grad who has been on both sides of the “pulpit", I find it appalling that a professor cannot understand the needs that arise in the classroom. I was especially interested to read the satire from elsa who does not seem to understand that life does go on outside the classroom. Some professors I have had to endure have no concept of the real world and seem to think that whatever they were saying was of such importance that the world seemed to revolve around them. Those professors who had something worthwhile to say and could say it in a way that held attention will not have the problems with students coming and going. On the other hand, if you are having a lot of students leave your classroom for extended periods of time, maybe you need to take a look in the mirror to see if you are the problem.

On another note, the lack of grammer and spelling skills on the part of some of the professors that have chimed in is appalling to me. If you can’t write, please don’t try.

Phillip Catlett, at 2:13 pm EST on March 18, 2005

ridiculous. i am not-long out of college, and most of us knew when it was appropriate to take potty breaks. at my (prestigious, small liberal-arts college) we had four class lengths: 50 and 65 minutes, 115 minutes and 175 minutes. on the longer two classes, professors always built breaks in. a student can generally be expected to “hold it” for an hour or so, but for anyone to go two or three hours without even stretching, or peeing... even professors have bladders! ridiculous.

lynn, at 2:56 pm EST on March 18, 2005

Teachers who take themselves too seriously

This attitude about students is riduculous. Teachers like this think that they are there to soak up the wisdom and knowledge the teacher has to offer, and is offended when every student doesnt behave that way. College is not like primary education where forced attendance is required. College is elective education. The student chooses to attend. Consequently, if the student, who has paid the money to attend, chooses not to put their full effort, that is their choice. The teacher is there to offer what they know about a subject, and if the student wishes to absorb that knowledge, they have that choice as well. If the student chooses not to attend class, comes late, leaves early, takes a break to use the bathroom, so what? You continue the class as usual. More severe disruptions are another story, however, which should be dealt with. Ultimately, the behavior of the student is the students responsibility. If the students absence or tardiness affects their performance in the class, that is their problem, and their grade will reflect it. I think my main point here is that the teacher is there for the student, but you cant force them to learn. The phrase “you can lead a horse to water, but cant make him drink” is appropirate here. The problem here is that often the teacher thinks the student is there to benefit their ego.

JM, Ph.D. at University of Washington, at 5:05 pm EST on March 18, 2005

tempest in a pee-pot

While I’m sure that my posting will be dismissed by some because I’m a graduate student, I do have four years of teaching experience at this point.

I think that Terry’s take on bathroom breaks speaks to a serious issue, but paints him as almost a charicature of a professor. It’s hard to believe that so many professors take bathroom breaks as a serious affront- if requests become a joke among the students, it makes sense to take action. However, in the absence of such a pattern, viewing one request as a horrible thing is a bit nuts.

In my experience, the need to have control over such minor things points to a larger loss of control over the class. Trying to prevent minor events like deceitful bathroom breaks (with the exception of exams) by laying down the law at the beginning can speed up the loss of overall control, since such classroom codes signal fear on the part of the teacher.

What I’m saying, Terry, is that if you lighten up a bit, you’re less likely to encounter challenges of this or any other type in class.

On a separate point, while I see bathroom breaks as minor, I disagree with those who see students as consumers. In fact, it is their parents who have paid in most cases, and part of what they pay for is the assurance that professors will make it desirable and necessary for students to be in class.

SL, Ph.D. candidate, at 6:04 pm EST on March 18, 2005

Excuse me! I have a doctorate degree and I have never seen such a horribly written article. This article is choppy and very poorly written for a college professor. I love when professors write articles that are ridiculously verbose — just to prove to themselves how bright they are. To other people, they make themselves look like fools. With regard to bathroom breaks — it appears as if you have no control over your students. This results from poor teaching skills. Set classroom behavior standards, enforce the standards and allow students with emergencies to use the can.

S Furfey, at 8:45 pm EST on March 18, 2005

I gotta say...if you don’t want me to eat in class, try not scheduling me to have classes from 11:00-3:00 without a break. 10:30 is just really early for lunch.

Josh S, at 9:11 pm EST on March 18, 2005

Seriously?

If your class is so out of control that bathroom breaks significantly disrupt your lecture, perhaps you ought to think of a different line of work. It’s frustrating, but you are teaching adults and while you can insist on a certain level of decorum in class (no cell phones), it is silly — particularly in a longer class — to try to regulate something like a bathroom break. It smacks of middle-school bathroom passes. You should assume that if your student must leave the class, they have good reason to do so and if they happen to miss material, it is their problem.

John, Graduate Student, at 4:53 am EST on March 19, 2005

You have got to be kidding!

What a petty concern! This is college and the students are now adults and don’t need this kind of supervision. A professor that has the time to start cataloging his or her student’s bathroom breaks would be better off spending time on improving their lecture. Its obvious that the lecture is not where the professor’s attention is.

Does author also note when colleagues leave for the bathroom during a faculty meeting?

Bill Brantley, Professor at University of Louisville, at 6:14 pm EST on March 20, 2005

Terry Caesar writes: “...why do I not remember a student ever leaving the classroom to go to the bathroom during my own college years?”

When I was a college freshman in 1965, both I and a high-school classmate were in a boring lecture covering material we had studied in high school. My classmate got up to leave, and was challenged by the professor. He simply said “I think my time could be better spent elsewhere” and walked out. Rude, and rudeness returned.

Going “to the bathroom” can actually be a polite way of avoiding insulting the teacher, even if the teacher deserves it. It implies that it is the student’s problem, rather than the teacher’s.

If you don’t want students to go to the bathroom, cut the crap.

Class of ‘69, at 7:17 am EST on March 21, 2005

Tempests in teacups and the Meteorologists obsessed by them

It is astonishing that someone involved in education has the time and inclination to pule about students’ bathroom usage habits in the face of disappearing educational budgets at every level of government, obscenely idiotic programs like ‘No child left behind’ which simply increases the testing standards for children while offering no resources to improve their performance, the ongoing removal of “non-critical” subjects like Art, Music, and Science, and the promulgation of an educational system based on standardizing education for the least common denominator. I understand that ripping those little tags off of mattresses has become an epidemic; but perhaps those of rape and murder should be addressed first.

Gavin, at 4:16 pm EST on March 21, 2005

As an adult student that has recently returned to school, I’ve been insulted by the way that my profs treat their students. Most of my classes are made up of people my age and even older, yet we’re often faced with the same sort of rules we were subjected to in high school, if not worse. Some days I don’t have time to use the restroom before class, and due to kidney problems, when I have to go, I have to go — right now.

I agree that cell phones and noisy eating are annoying. But I’m a grown up, and if I need to use the restroom, then I’m capable of making that decision. Like it or not, I am paying your salary. And if you feel you aren’t being paid enough to put up with my occasional trips to the bathroom, then you need to talk to the administration, not take it out on me.

By the way, I am also capable of deciding when I should miss class. I shouldn’t need permission, and it angers me that I should even have to deal with it.

RU, at 4:21 am EST on March 22, 2005

As human beings inhabiting living bodies, we will unavoidably have certain visceral needs including: eating, sleeping, using the restroom, hydration, the intake of oxygen etc. Some of these needs tend to be more urgent and frequent than others. Hence the inclusion of specific rooms within the hallways of our fine academic institutions constructed solely for the purposes of alleviating said requisite needs. Though I must admit, were they to start incorporating “naprooms” into the blueprints of lecture halls students would probably begin to abuse their privileges it that case as well.

Laura, at 4:48 pm EST on March 24, 2005

School Bathrooms

Well im a student at Argo high school in illinois.. and i was recently given a detention for leaving to the bathroom during art class, after i repeatdely asked the teacher to let me go and she responded by saying wait after class...(and class was going to be over in 25 minutes)i couldnt wait ..and she just ignored me. So i left to the bathroom and when i came back i was written up and taken to the deans. i explained my situation but they did not care, and handed my detention. The next day i talked to the principal beacuse the detention iwas given was unfair...and him too said i deserve it and that i should go whenever my teacher tells me to go.(I was thinking “wow teacher now know when the students have to go to the bathroom or not...") Well i guess teachers now have magical powers and know wether you have to go to the bathroom or not...my principal pretty much meant...

Ganzo, BathRoom at HIgH School, at 6:05 am EST on February 10, 2007