April 28, 2006

The Real Reasons Students Can’t Write

At my university, I chair a faculty committee charged with reviewing and revising our general education curriculum. Over the past two and a half years, we have examined programs at similar colleges and studied best practices nationwide. In response, we have begun to propose a new curriculum that responds to some of the weaknesses in our current program (few shared courses and little curricular oversight), and adds what we believe will be some new strengths (first-year seminars and a junior-level multidisciplinary seminar).

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In addition, we are proposing that we dispense with our standard second course in research writing, revise our English 101 into an introduction to academic writing, and institute a writing-across-the-curriculum program. Our intention is to infuse the general education curriculum with additional writing practice and to prompt departments to take more responsibility for teaching the conventions of research and writing in their disciplines. As you might imagine, this change has fostered quite a bit of anxiety (and in some cases, outright outrage) on the part of a few colleagues who believe that if we drop a course in writing, we have dodged our duty to ensure that all students can write clearly and correctly. They claim that their students don’t know how to write as it is, and our proposal will only make matters worse.

I believe most faculty think that when they find an error in grammar or logic or format, it is because their students don’t know “how” to write. When I find significant errors in student writing, I chalk it up to one of three reasons: they don’t care, they don’t know, or they didn’t see it. And I believe that the first and last are the most frequent causes of error. In other words, when push comes to shove, I’ve found that most students really do know how to write — that is, if we can help them learn to value and care about what they are writing and then help them manage the time they need to compose effectively.

Still, I sympathize with my colleagues who are frustrated with the quality of writing they encounter. I have been teaching first-year writing for many years, and I have directed rhetoric and compositions programs at two universities. During this time, I have had many students who demonstrate passive aggressive behavior when it comes to completing writing projects. The least they can get away with or the later they can turn it in, the better. I have also had students with little interest in writing because they have had no personally satisfying experiences in writing in high school. Then there are those students who fail to give themselves enough time to handle the complex process of planning, drafting, revising, and editing their work.

But let’s not just blame the students. Most college professors would prefer to complain about poor writing than simply refuse to accept it. Therefore, students rarely experience any significant penalties for their bad behaviors in writing. They may get a low mark on an assignment, but it would a rare event indeed if a student failed a course for an inadequate writing performance. Just imagine the line at the dean’s door!

This leads me to my modest proposal. First, let me draw a quick analogy between driving and writing. Most drivers are good drivers because the rules of the road are public and shared, they are consistently enforced, and the consequences of bad driving are clear. I believe most students would become better writers if the rules of writing were public and shared, they were consistently enforced, and the consequences of bad writing were made clear.

Therefore, I propose that all institutions of higher learning adopt the following policy. All faculty members are hereby authorized to challenge their students’ writing proficiency. Students who fail to demonstrate the generally accepted minimum standards of proficiency in writing may be issued a “writing ticket” by their instructors. Writing tickets become part of students’ institutional “writing records.” Students may have tickets removed from their writing records by completing requirements identified by their instructors. These requirements may include substantially revising the paper, attending a writing workshop, taking a writing proficiency examination, or registering for a developmental writing course. Students who fail to have tickets removed from their records will receive additional penalties, such as a failing grade for the course, academic probation, or the inability to register for classes.

What would the consequences of such a policy be? First of all, it would mean that we would have to take writing-across-the curriculum more seriously than most of us do now. We would have to institute placement and assessment procedures to ensure that students receive effective introductory instruction and can demonstrate proficiency in writing at an appropriate level before moving forward.

Professors would also be required to get together, talk seriously and openly, and come to agreements about what they think are “generally accepted minimum standards of proficiency in writing” at various levels, in each discipline, and across the board. We would be required to develop more consistent ways of assigning, responding to, and evaluating writing. We would also have to join with our colleagues in academic support services to recruit, hire, and train effective tutors.

And we would have to issue tickets. Lots of them. But not so many after awhile when students soon learn the consequences of going too fast, too slow, or in the wrong direction, stopping in the wrong place or failing to stop altogether, forgetting to signal when making a turn, or just ending up in a wreck. Then there is that increasing problem of students who take someone else’s car for a joy ride.

Here’s your badge.

Laurence Musgrove is an associate professor of English and foreign languages at Saint Xavier University, in Chicago.

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In response to this topic, I must state that I am a junior at a college prep school and I am doing a research paper on the same topic. Even as a young adult, I am concered for the future of the country due to the lower literacy rates and the demoralization of the public school systems that are being pressed by the government. I am referencing the ‘No Child Left Behind’ and how the cirriculum is being dumbed down to the point that teens in public high schools aren’t able to comprehend books that most people should have been reading in primary school. I came to a private school because my mother feared for the value of my education. Bluntly, she believed that public school would make my valuable IQ plummet. I very much appreciate her efforts. As of now, I cannot go back to a public school because I have grown a deep hatred for those who disregard the wonders of knowledge and the application of. Back to focus, the government policies are making the success rate and the amount of high school graduates increase, but the true value of their education is about as much as my puppy playing with a soccer ball. It’s nice, but pointless. In conclusion, I am very regretful that high school students have lower their standards and are fine with being the generation of dedicated underachievers. There is one thing I want to do to alter this fate of stupidity, but whether or not I even say it, I don’t know if anyone will be able to comprehend. (Haha.)

Sydney Matheson, I can read., at 10:20 am EST on February 12, 2008

Writing & Emotions

Interesting topic.

I have been an elementary teacher for the past 20 years. I am also a parent of a very bright 11 year old who can maintain A’s in every subject EXCEPT WRITING. He can read and comprehend books at an 11th grade level and scores high on Math, Science, and Social Studies exams, but ask him to write and he freezes! His vocabulary is excellent. I am convinced his emotional impairment (ADD & ODD) affects his inability to write.

I have not been able to find much research on this subject. Many chidren today come from very diverse and complicated backgrounds. Could this be part of the reason they lack writing skills?

If you have any additional information on this topic I would be very interested in reading it. I do want to understand why children have such difficulties with writing. I’m sure I speak for many teachers in early education.

Thanks, in advance, for any information.

Mertle, Elementary Teacher, at 10:40 am EST on February 16, 2008

Reasons Why Students Can’t Write

I agree with you 100%. I which the deans and boards of education would stand behind the instructors/professors who require higher quality work. In my experience, these professors are criticized and rebuked. If you would like to see change in academia, change the policies which rule it.

Justina Baird, Porfessor at Apollo College, at 10:00 pm EDT on June 22, 2008

Class Size

Here’s at least on reason why student’s in my (liberal arts) department can’t write: No on assigns them papers. Why? Class size. My second year course has gone from 50 students (4 years ago) to 160 students (this semester). Have I been given TA support proportional to the increase? I simply don’t have the time to grade the papers. (My other first year class has 470 students, the seating capacity of the largest room.) I spend all my time on short answer tests (I refuse to go completely multiple choice, as many of my colleagues have) but that eats up the time I can afford to spend on grading. Here, the factors that count for tenure and promotion are grants, grants, publications, and then a distant fourth is teaching. The one positive is that at least tuition is low for in state students (they spend only $750 for my course, assuming they take five a semester).

RW, Vanishing Opportunities at Big Midwest State Research U, at 6:55 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Reinforcing and honing writing skills

I’m an ancient graduate (MS) student, returning to school in a science field after earning a Bachelor’s degree and spending 2+ decades as an engineer. To my surprise and pleasure, writing is a much more valued skill in science than it was in engineering, at least when I was an undergraduate. Perhaps science demands more writing skills (although I spent more time than I care to ponder coaching untrained writers as a lead engineer.)

Speaking as one who used to lead, and eventually manage technical professionals: WRITING IS A KEY SKILL. Sorry to shout, but I feel strongly about this. One reason students can’t write is that they’ve not had PRACTICE. My current department demands a minimum of one significant term paper or poster in EVERY major class, ALL major classes exclusively use essay-only exams, and most labs require essays to explain observed phenomena (relating them to class discussion or assigned reading). I would’ve been a MUCH better writer after graduating if I’d been exposed to such a regime.

(To any comment readers unfamiliar with scientific posters, be assured that they are one of the most difficult writing genres known. Condense whatever you want to say into one fifth of the words required, manage to convey the rest with fetching illustrations rendered in unconquerable drawing software, and maybe your colleagues will actually take a look at it. Not fun.)

Karen, at 6:55 am EDT on April 28, 2006

What about professors writing with their students?

I endorse the ideas in the essay above but want to add a bit more to the problem. Many teachers don’t write well and would rather not teach writing, or end up teaching it badly. In other words, the learning problem doesn’t stop with students. One helpful solution to the problem is encouraging professors to write some of their own assignments with students. I have a 4 course load, teach mostly FY Composition, and I love to write with my students because it shows them and me more of what our learning experiences involve.

I agree that writing instruction is a shared responsibility across the curriculum and simply think that the best writing teachers write.

Will Hochman

Will Hochman, Associate Professor of English at Southern Connecticut State University, at 8:30 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Hear, hear! I heartily endorse the modest proposal. One wonders, however, if the scope should be widened. We should also issue tickets to administrators, to staff, to faculty, to the authors of institutional publications. One is frequently embarrassed by memoranda, announcements, syllabi, etc., replete with errors ranging from the grammatical to the typographical.Professor Musgrove draws the analogy between writing and driving; clearly, however students are not the only bad drivers on the road. If others do not obey the speed limit, why should students?

Blaine De Lancey, College Recorder/ Academic Advisor at Syracuse University, at 8:35 am EDT on April 28, 2006

1. Engineers & writing, 2. The driving metaphor

1. What young engineering students don’t realize (and often aren’t told) is that the product of an engineer is not a bridge or a polymer or a reactor vessel — it’s a report, a document that will let a construction team or fabricator make real what the engineer’s knowledge and creativity designs. Engineers have to be educated in the applied sciences of their specialties, but if they can’t get it on paper in a way that the fabricators can understand they have done nothing. At least that’s what I always tell tech writing classes.

2. Only one flaw with the driving metaphor — the same students who don’t care enough to write well typically don’t care enough to drive well, either.

Bill Dockery, University of Tennessee, at 8:50 am EDT on April 28, 2006

I’m Red-carding That Guy!

I’m sorry, but I think Professor Musgrove is so far off base I wonder why he was afforded space in InsideHigherEd to extol his revolutionary “She’s got a ticket to write” nonsense.

First, he claims “When I find significant errors in student writing, I chalk it up to one of three reasons: they don’t care, they don’t know, or they didn’t see it. And I believe that the first and last are the most frequent causes of error.”

I have been teaching at colleges and universities for the past 45 years, and during that time I have reviewed so many published research articles, articles submitted for publication, essays, reports, reviews, letters, commentaries, etc. written by college and university faculty, I would have difficulty even estimating the number. Frankly the students for whom Professor Musgrove is attempting to design a writing improvement strategy have a great many professors whose writing skills leave much to be desired. Furthermore, these faculty have at least as many incentives for writing excellence as do their students.

If I am right then, his “they don’t know” category has been greatly underestimated.

Second, general education “solutions” are so ineffective for achieving important educational objectives – not that we ever evaluate the outcomes — I’m amazed, even after all these years, they’re still around. Personally, I would (1) require every freshman to take a rigorous two- course sequence in rhetoric and writing (with a healthy dose of “critical thinking” mixed in ... and God do I ever hate that term) and (2) make sure the campus culture for learning reinforced what was learned in those courses throughout the student’s undergraduate career.

For example – and I am a very big fan of e-mail communication – set recommended standards and guidelines for all written communication for all members of the college or university community ... including, of course, that of students, faculty, deans, vice presidents, and even the great person him/her-self (see “Two Things ...” in ...

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/04/19/oregon)

“She’s got a ticket to write” indeed!

RWH, at 9:45 am EDT on April 28, 2006

A Skill for Life

Writing is a skill that is vitally important to any career. I wholeheartedly support any effort to teach students to do their very best and to pay attention to details. The smartest CEO can look like a fool if he/she doesn’t know or practice basic grammar. In college, I wrote more reports than I care to remember and most of our tests were short answer or discussion. I’m better for it.

Sandra, Global Financial Aid Services, at 10:00 am EDT on April 28, 2006

It’s a Start..

As a Civil Engineer turned Budget Director (after a Masters in Political Science), turned Administrator, turned College Professor of Business for working Adults, (how’s that for a run-on sentence), Mr. Musgrove has a start towards the problem. What most professors fail to emphasize (especially English Teachers), is WHY IT IS NECESSARY TO WRITE WELL! (No apologies for shouting!, Mr Dockerty)

And...it ain’t only engineers, my friends. It’s everyone who wishes to make change happen. All writing (empahasis: ALL)is an attempt to persuade someone to do something. You can classify categories, but in the end, you want to persuade someone to take some action...!

So...what do we focus on? Examine “blogging"; Examine “editorials"; examine ” letters to the editor"; examine “personal correspondence"; examine “classical literature"; examine “any writing", including this one and you will find the attempts to persuade someone to do something. Why else would I sit here every morning reading this silly column when the world of “icthyological research” (commonly called, fishing) in my retirement days beckon incessently if I didn’t care about the future generations ability to make change happen in the world.

What is the point? Give your learners something to become passionate about! Forget the word: “PAPER"! Eliminate it from your instructive and personal vocabulary. It is not the end in itself. What do you want to to change? Who do you want them to persuade? Most students click off “Papers” one-by-one in the curriculum to satisfy YOU! Who cares about that? Let me illustrate:

After assuming the positions of budget Director and Administrator, I had many former engineer colleagues present their ideas to be approved! They would storm out of our offices after pounding their fists on the table declaring that this or that MUST be approved and it’s the only way something can be done because I said so, or because of my position!

Another illustration: Henry Kissinger, in his governmental position, as the story goes would repeatedly send proposals back to his staff without reading them, sometimes two, three, four times asking for improvements recognizing that they needed to rewrite them until his staffers got the message.

Well....Why? What are your options? What alternatives would you propose? What evidence can you provide to aupport this or that idea? What about this idea? What about that idea? Etc., etc, etc. You get the point? Eliminate the use of personal pronouns. Take yourself out of the writing. Focus on the idea and you will change the world.

I could go on. Please forgive the dissertation, Mr. Musgrove but you touched a nerve this morning....

Please continue your quest. I would suggest beginning at the 3 and 4 year old level in MySpace and other online places...by the time they get to you, they won’t have the same problems...

Edward Winslow, A “Tired” retired Business Professor, at 10:15 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Just doin’ my job. . . on the Highway Patrol

I’ll accept the “ticket” analogy if I can be convinced that all professors have training in teaching writing equivalent to the training of a highway patrol-person.

I have been directing an Interdisciplinary Writing Program for 16 years, encompassing professors from 15 disciplines. These have been wonderful people who have student performance high on their list of priorities. Our seminars have provided high-toned discussions on topics such as intra-disciplinary writing, basic principles of good writing, micro-lessons and administrative roles. But this same group bristles at any mention of “training”: how to grade an essay, how to create an assignment, how to detect and correct errors in grammar and usage, how to inculcate critical thinking. Just as freshmen come to college convinced that their high school diplomas represent a rite of passage which “proves” that they know how to write well, professors (from all disciplines, including English) are convinced that their dissertation experience represents a rite of passage stating that they know how to write well, and how to teach writing effectively. But their sense of good writing is too intuitive and not technical enough, so students write to “give the teacher what he/she wants” rather than mastering specific stages and skills in thinking and expression. It is one thing to be a good reader, another to be a good writer, and yet another to be an effective teacher of writing. A fault in the profession is that these processes are seen as tantamount to one another.

Broderick Crawford, at 10:15 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Writing and Driving

I’ve taught for several years, mostly freshman composition, and at institutions where the students are often first generation who both work and have poor academic backgrounds. Still, they’ve got to learn to write, and read, critically in order to at least have these basic skills as they enter a working environment that is fast and rough, much like riding a raft. And we need to concentrate on the students, I feel, and comments from others who complain about poor writing skills of faculty or staff are missing the point. I blame the Internet and the fact that students do not read much other than from this quick and easy source. I tell mine that they have to learn to “crunch” information like numbers in order to titrate anything from their reading in preparation for writing papers. In spite of trips to the library, most of the students who have the greatest difficulty in writing are those who just don’t expand from their chair and computer. The explosion in techniques and the changes from reading, writing, and English courses of yesteryear to today’s rhetoric classes with more and more elaborate schemes to attempt to instill skills from Toulmin or others may miss the mark. There is no one solution and teachers will use their own repertoire and devices to try and get students to read and write. I like the across-the-board idea, too. One of my favorite courses in grad school was one doubly taught by faculty member from English, the other from history. Lively discussion, difficult course, great course. I also remind my students that the legislature in this state, at least, are going to initiate penalties for students who do not complete their courseload in four years. There are as many reasons for these writing problems as there are school districts who turn out the students to college/university professors who themselves are products of the great variety of backgrounds of teaching in this field. Why not take away the Internet for the first semester of all English writing composition classes?

dunya bean, adjunct faculty instructor, at 10:35 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Why stop with writing?

By industry dogma and local acceptance, general education tends to be potpourri skills courses—composition, mathematics, speech, etc coupled with an array of arts, humanities, social sciences and sciences traditionally assumed to produce a well-rounded graduate prepared for the vagaries of life. The ubiquitous package of courses, wrapped in a patina of fuzzy justifications, is normally completed during the first two years of enrollment. By tradition these general education courses, as well as the remainder of the undergraduate curriculum, are taught in silos or bunkers. What is taught in the composition, information technology, mathematics and speech courses is assumed to migrate to the content courses. We have been extolling the values of general education for so long that we accept it without serious validation. The potpourri is also assumed to enable students to address life’s opportunities and problems from an array of discipline perspectives

Recent reports dispel this dogma. National Assessment of Adult Literacy’s studies reveal that college graduates have middling communication and mathematical skills. In additions, employers have long noted that newly minted graduates lack the analytical, communication collaborative and problem solving skills requisite in the competitive global economy. Buffing up writing stills is only a partial remedy but a good first step.We are in the process of influsing writing, speech, mathematics, problem solving and collaboration throughout our gen ed programming.

pat leon ard, Vice President for Academci Servoces at College of Southwest, at 10:40 am EDT on April 28, 2006

Re: For What it’s Worth

I teach mainly upper-division literature courses, and in these I have a firm “three strikes and you are out” policy that is ensconced in the syllabus. Three major grammar erros (e.g., verb/subject disagreement; consistent and serious misuse of punctuation; consistent and serious spelling errors, including if not especially misspelling the names of characters, etc.), and I bounce the essay back to them as falling below the minimum standard for college writing. They then have the option of either failing or revising the essay for a maximum grade of “C.”

Harsh, but it works.

Peter C. Herman, Prof., at 11:35 am EDT on April 28, 2006

re: Errata

That should be, of course, “three majors ERRORS.” Sorry for the typo.

Peter C. Herman, Prof., at 11:45 am EDT on April 28, 2006

but I liked the typo, Peter. It suggested “grammar eros,” or the act of writing so grammatically correctly that erotic feelings of English professors are aroused. I’ve had this happen (rarely), but I’ll settle for grammar agape.

W C Snyder, at 12:20 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

One step outside the box

I appreciate pat leon ard’s reflection, and incidently, one action we often strive to encourage through writing, to to get others to think. An article may appear to merely be about an experience one is trying to share, but the effective articles in that category invite others to consider the experience and possibly share similar incidents or perspectives.

Second thought: perhaps some students are confused between writing styles?

I’ve witnessed students who are thoroughly entrenched in AP style and seemingly are scared to death to try MLA, APA, etc. “but professor Soand So always says. . . “

Sound familiar? I know faculty and other professionals who react to varying styles as ERRORS! At times, perhaps we all need to lighten up a bit before plowing back into the sales pitch for our particular style and insistance upon its use?

Students can spot people who like to teach students and those who just like to talk about themselves (personal pronouns?) and their pet subjects. Clarity in communication, whether in prose or numerals or non-verbals, is certainly important, but shouldn’t be elevated to the status of religion.

Dr. F. Gump, at 1:45 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

Driving Instructors

I admit I feel pretty desparate about the kind of writing I see on a weekly basis from my students. The author is right that a lot of student writing issues disappear when the students really care about what they’re wrtiting about; the best-written assignment I get every semester is one in which I ask students to describe their families whcih, whatever their relationship is, is a topic nearly every student is passionate about.

However, I have a problem with grading for grammar/spelling/typos/composition — I’m not well-trained for that. Certainly I can tell when an error has been made, or when an argument is simply unconvincing, and I could take points off for those things, but I’d be a fraud. I’ve always felt that I should not take points off for anything that I’m not willing to teach students how to correct, and while I can identify errors, I do not know how to teach my students how not to make them. Nor, for that matter, do I have the time to deal with writing and composition skills in any significant manner — the material that comprises the course subject is more than enough to fill out my courses!

The author’s plan seems reasonable in the context of a school-wide integrated effort, where I as a professor of social sciences can assume that someone else is handling the grammar and comp material, and that they’re handling it well. But in the absence of a school-wide program, I have to assume that nobody else is going to take up the slack I leave when I tell a student to avoid run-ons or to stop editorializing.

My approach has been to tell students that while I won’t single out grammatical or stylistic problems as reasons for a poor grade, inasmuch as they affect my ability to determine their mastery of the subject matter those things do count. I quote a friend of mine: “Your paper is a boat full of ideas, and I’m on the other side of the river. If your boat has a few small holes, it will probably make it across the river, but if it has a thousand holes...” I also assign weekly writing, ranging from 1-2 page responses to 4-6 page essays — with not a multiple choice question to be seen. The practice does tend to pay off — while the reliance on spell-check seems resistant to my near-weekly exhortations that spellcheck is not their friend (I tell them it’s a conspiracy by Microsoft to make them look stupid; they don’t care, apparently...), I *do* notice a significant improvement in most students’ writing over the course of the semester. I think it’s the practice — maybe by the end of the semester, they just *care* a lot more about what they’re writing?

Dustin, at 3:00 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

Doctor, heal thyself!

As a good starter, require all candidates for faculty positions to show that they know how to write.

Charles Muscatine, Orifessor emeritus, at 3:50 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

Practice Makes Permanent

In spite of my affiliation on the Dark Side, I teach an economics course each term. I have come to three conclusions. One skills developed in freshman composition are quickly lost unless they are practiced. Two, practice makes permanent. Three, ignoring a student’s writing deficiencies rewards their laxity. Four, if I do not do something, who will?

Pat Leonard, Vice President for Academic Services at College of the Southwest, at 4:55 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

I appreciate the content of this article, but the scholar in me simply has to question a faulty principal. The article states that most drivers are good drivers because the rules and consequences of driving are public and shared.

Is that a joke? For me, it’s a daily occurance to narrowly avoid wrecks with drivers who fail to signal, refuse to check their blind spots, run red lights, don’t follow road signs, etc. ad nauseum.

If we expect anyone to write as well as most people drive, I think even the shoddy writing we currently see will have to be taken down a notch.

B.M.A., at 6:55 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

this seems to be about driving and I’m sorry to get off the subject, but I taught freshman English, 101 and 102 as an adjunct for several years. I always started the semester off in a workshop, sharing ungraded format and there was a lot of interest, enthusiasm and learning. After a few weeks I had to start grading — requirements of the job — and I noticed almost immediately that interest declined as did the quality of the work. Instead of pleasing themselves and their peers, it became a “game” to please me, unfortunately usually a failure. BTW, I used to enjoy driving but now I’m really tired of it.

owen, at 10:45 pm EDT on April 28, 2006

Writing for science and engineering majors

Broderick Crawford raises what to me is major problem for writing across the curriculum programs for students in science, engineering or math. At my university we have such a program and officially many of our upper level math courses – I teach math — are listed as “writing intensive”. But, no one gives writing assignments. I have tried to, but I do not know how to teach a poor writer to write better. As far as the writing went all I could do was read the papers and stick grades on them based on my gut reaction – of course I could evaluate the math. I’m not going to mess with rewrites and outlines. I know bad grammar when I see it, but do not know all the terminology. And, I am not going to take a “how to teach writing class”.

(In proof based courses I do teach students how to write proofs. This likely does transfer to some degree to other types of writing, but it is not at all like they writing they are likely to do on the job.)

Our students do take a technical writing course. However, it is not tied to our curriculum and the English TA’s who teach it have no back ground in math or science. (One turned her class into a community service class; her students had to do volunteer work and write about it.) Perhaps these courses could be improved by having the students do writing projects that count in their technical writing course and a math, science or engineering course. Since there are many majors is a typical technical writing class this would require a lot of leg work by the TA or special scheduling to link up courses.

Mike, at 6:50 am EDT on April 29, 2006

Owen,

I notice a similar thing in my classes — the ungraded assignments are often better-written than the graded ones. I wonder, though, if this might not be less about desire and self-pleasing-ness and more about attempting to write up to assumed standards? One of the things I notice a lot in poor writing is the attempt to *sound* academic, using big-words (often hyper-corrected, like “habitualated") or overly-complex sentence structure in an empty mimicry of academic writing (or, more likely, what students *imagine* acadeic writing to be like). WHen they’re not writing for a grade, there’s no pressure not to look stupid — and students freed from this pressure may actually write better (a factor that research shows at work with minorities and testing, by the way).

Dustin, at 6:50 am EDT on April 29, 2006

Academic writing unreadable

” .. As a good starter, require all candidates for faculty positions to show that they know how to write.”

Ha! That’s a laugh! Rumor has it, most academic journals have, as a top priority, “unreadability” for articles selected for publication. Try the Journal of Educational Psychology for starters — what a freakin’ waste. And to top that, the geniuses wonder why they aren’t taken seriously by non-academic leaders (who, by the way, are a main source for future funding).

Want more?

http://irascibleprofessor.com/comments-04-27-06.htm

What the Stallings Commission and academia won’t admit: there is a huge “dead zone” of recent/future college alums (1982-2014) who cannot read or write effectively. That would have required having performance standards and discipline — not producing more PhDs. Now, it would take a boatload of remedial work to fix the problem. Good grief!

L.L., at 10:20 am EDT on April 29, 2006

Today’s students increasingly lack a far more important skill than writing. What about READING? I have students who do not understand that an essayist can consider the merits of a position even if he/she does not agree with that position.

Reading must come first. To develop reading comprehension skills, students must read. A lot. But even when professors assign challenging primary source readings, students often do not read them. We need to develop techniques to make sure students struggle through difficult readings. Should we have “reading intensive” courses? Many professors at my institution have moved to an all-textbook format. There’s the more powerful problem, in my view.

Lisa, at 10:20 am EDT on April 29, 2006

beating a dead horse

As was briefly noted by previous posters, if tenure is not based on how well we teach our students, then why should we be suprised that our students can’t/don’t practice writing? The years I was a TA at ‘big midwestern U’ I taught large intro courses that required NO PAPERS! There were multiple choice test with a few short answer questions. Then when I was a TA for the upper level divison course, still NO PAPERS! Students took two exams, take home mid-term and final. While these required writing skills, there wasn’t any other assignments in between to help them practice their writing skills. I was TA that had 120 students a semester and 4 sections to teach. If papers were assigned in the course then TA’s would be going over their workload contract. What were the professors doing? Certainly not doing any grading, but trying to get tenure through their own research. But as always, no one wants to change the tenure structure and the basis upon which we evaluate candidates. Universities depend on funding and grants that big time researchers pull in. “Big state research U” is never going to hire the professor who doesn’t have publications, but has been proved to get students to learn both the subject matter and the writing skills. So we’re going to be stuck with students who cannot write, cannot read, and cannot think critically or solve problems. Can’t wait to see what our future looks like.

com college prof, at 5:00 pm EDT on April 29, 2006

A Students Opinion

I highly endorse this method of teaching. I am a non-traditional student who made the decision to return to school after working in the medical field for 26 years.One of my courses this semester is English Composition 112 — Computer Lab.I felt,four weeks into this semester,that it would be difficult to meet the writing qualifications of this course.However,it was Professor William Hochman’s outstanding teaching etho’s and vested interest that allowed for personal growth, which enhanced my writing skills as well as his other students.What appears to be most impressive is that he participated and was dedicated with our development.Professor Hochman challenged us to think outside of the box,which in return enhanced our creative and critical thinking.This allowed for all of us to become better writers.We ultimately became products of our enviroment.So,for the educators that are not enthusiastic about putting the effort into educating their students,they shouldn’t expect back that their students will put an effort into submitting well written papers that meet their standards.

Jennifer Kochiss, Southern Conneticut State University, at 4:40 am EDT on May 1, 2006

why don’t we define what we mean by “writing”

it astounds me that we still refer to “writing” as “writing” when it so clearly isn’t. here we are in the field of composition and yet we can’t agree on the very verb used to describe the act of putting one’s thoughts together so that another can understand them.

more than a student’s inability to follow grammar rules and “academic writing” (whatever that is) standards is my absolute shock at how OUT OF TOUCH the average college english instructor is with the literacy practices the average college student ALREADY employs. these literacy practices, however, aren’t valid in our eyes because they aren’t your standard 5-paragraph essay (yes, people still use that, astounding I know)—we continue to ask students to do the work of the old with the technologies of the new. when will WE educate ourselves enough that we actually have something of value to TEACH our students who DO know how to “write.” i agree with the author’s initial WAC suggestions—even with the ticket metaphor— but before we start handing out “tickets,” we might need to take a good look in the mirror and do some self-evaluation. not to mention how about we GET TO KNOW our students so we are actually capable of assessing their skills and abilities from a variety of perspectives instead of the standard bla bla bla academic paper. do any of us even know what kind of “writing” the workplace or non-academic (and I use that phrase loosely) arena values? how would we know? this all requires more time and energy on the part of the instructor, yes—which is why we need to start uniting on this issue, pleading our case to our universities and the states that fund them and getting more $$$, coming up with better strategies, and encouraging one another!

christa, doc student, teaching fellow at state univ in ohio, at 8:15 pm EDT on May 1, 2006

English

English is a great subject and very important to our community today. But i dont agree about some of things that are trying to be done. For example should we really issue tickets when somone does somthing wrong in english i mean thats kind of crazy. Why are we going to single english out and have to change it. Every subject is just as important in ther eown way we dont need to put english on a pedastal. More or less i believe the proffesor of a class has the biggest effect on there students. A proffesor that can enjoy themselves while geting the class interested and energetic about a subject will no doubt have a huge influence on there students. All thats needed is good proffesors with them will come good grades becuase if students are interested and dont mind going to class then the h/w and papers arn’t the issue anymore becuese students will know want to learn instead of haveing to learn.

Thomas Larranaga, at 1:55 pm EDT on May 2, 2006

Lets try something else

I Believe that we should not punish students for not understanding standard english becasue what if they have a problem understanding MLA. The reason I asked that qustion becasue, is it fair to punish those who try their best to fix there grammer and work hard to try to understand standard englsih? I am someone who is still trying to understand Standard English because it is my second language and i have had a tremdous amount of help from two southern professors who have tried a differnt apporoch on teaching.One of them who I consider to be my mentor is Professor Tony Rosso who taught me how to use critical thinking in my writing and also taught me how to put my voice in my writing.What I mean by voice is my cluture and personality into my writing. Now Professor Will Hochman taught me how Revison is the key to writing. He also belives that by puting your heart and emotion into your writing that is what makes A good writer. Now what they both have in common is that they always are challenging there students , they always try to have students particapate in class and not let them fall behind or fall asleep. They always find new and creative ways to keep there students intersted such as humor and the intertnet. Professor Tony Rosso would always try to make us laugh and he would always try to find new styles and new meothds of teaching and instead of just giving us orders he would listen to his student and learn from them just we learn from him. Professor Will Hochman uses Technology to teach his class but has a way to not let the class become a computer class. We use bloging, Chat rooms , Web Ct and message boards to communicate in the class rooms.They use two different methods but they get the same result. I believe teachers should motivate there students and try to help them get better and not just fail them. Professors should use the problem posing method of teaching rather then using the banking method of teaching to teach our current youths.

Ahmed Maklad, Student at Southern Ct State University, at 1:55 pm EDT on May 2, 2006

Beginning at the beginning

Lisa is absolutely right. The main reason why students can’t write is because they don’t read. Trying to get students to produce fairly dense text when they’ve never even seen it is like teaching music to the tone deaf or painting to the color blind.

I’d be willing to bet that if I could somehow presuade students to take a year away from class and simply read 400-500 pages a week, their writing skills would improve dramatically.

Philip Lopez, at 2:55 pm EDT on May 2, 2006

Writing Tickets

I like the writing ticket idea, and I would extend it to an arithmetic ticket. I have students who are amazed that I can figure out their grades by hand, doing percentages and long division correctly and fast. It amazes me that they cannot.

Professor Zero, at 5:20 am EDT on May 4, 2006

You guys are funny. No one can teach 55% of the population to write. No one can even teach 25% of the population to write. No one ever has, and no one ever will.

SD, at 5:20 am EDT on May 4, 2006

In reply to SD, yes you can.

You might recall in Ken Burns’ The Civil War the letters from American soldiers writing home. These young men were capable of excellent writing.

You also see in Cooper’s Last of the Mohicans a convoluted complexity of the writing difficult for many today, but devoured in its day. The book sold what would have been today the equivalent of 5 million copies when it came out.

And those Civil War letter writers and Cooper readers had on average only a forth grade education.

What is the difference? Schools then were dedicated to teaching reading and writing, as ours today are not. Just read the correspondence here to see the excuses. (Of course it helped that in every home there was a regularly read, incredibly well written bible.)

The simple fact is that public schools refuse to teach reading and writing. To this day, against the direct mandate of the Board of Education, New York City teachers refuse to teach phonetic reading, and still insist on sight-reading even after four decades of failure. But at least they have abandoned The New Math and The New Grammar.

I recently sat in a meeting with the director of freshman English Composition at my school who stated: “The new focus of Freshman English Composition is power, race, gender and identity.” I said: “What about making the focus teaching students how to write?” Everybody just looked at me. Also, again with regard to the correspondence here, one might want those teaching freshman English Composition to themselves be good writers.

For those interested in what is really going on in the collapse of teaching reading and writing, see Copperman’s The Literacy Hoax.

John Lobell, Professor at Pratt Institute, at 7:45 am EDT on May 4, 2006

John Lobell:

The examples Ken Burns chose in his documentary are hardly representative of the writing skills of ALL the soldiers involved in the Civil War. Obviously, Burns chose the best, the most eloquent, the most touching.

Phonics: Xx yxx cxn rxxd thxx, yxx cxx bxcxmx x gxxd sxcrxtxxy.

Did you manage to decode it? Of course you did, even though half the information is missing. One of the things you did NOT do to decode this sentence is to sound it out. And sounding things out is what phonics is all about. Teaching phonics assumes that reading is a process that turns squiggles on paper (called graphemes) into sound and meaning. If that’s how reading worked, then kids who were born deaf could NEVER learn to read.

Consider this sentence: He read the minute print in the minutes. Notice that you have to know the meaning of “minute” BEFORE you know how to pronounce it.

Philip, at 2:15 pm EDT on May 4, 2006

Non-linear/linear writing

Musgrove’s analogy between academic writing and driving a vehicle does not seem to include the academic writers from other academic cultures that arrange their own thoughts and the information from sources in OTHER ways (as the Kaplan studies have shown). Those drivers — who drive in circles or zig-zack — would soon lose their licences — or worse — get killed the first time they hit the road...Therefore, Musgrove’s model needs to address the needs of the ESL students and the ones of the 1.5 Generation students separately from the ones that would end up in his “Developmental Writing/Reading Classes.”

I predict that SXU needs to think about starting an Academic Writing Class for ESL students very soon ...

Other, at 4:35 am EDT on May 5, 2006

The Decline of Both Writing and Speaking Skills

I was awarded my A.A. in General Studies from the Community College of Rhode Island in 1995. I was provided the tools necessary by my mother and grandmother for excellent writing, and eloquent speaking skills. My speech to this day is very good. My enounciation is also quite good as being hard of hearing for quite awhile, it was necessary for me to pronounce things for my own satisfaction and self confidence. I am now Deaf but still have excellent speaking skills. I know the difference between “good” and “well” where one is an adverb and one is an adjective. I know not to use double negatives which people even PhD’s use everyday. The English language is alive and changing everyday but is it changing for the better? I read many different articles in many newspapers and magazines and find that many times the articles “a” and “an” are misused. Many times “an” should be used when the word to follow starts with a vowel. Many times this does not occur. I have conflicting rules from English teachers who state that it should only be “an” if it starts with a letter “a". I have been looking for a English text book that is at least 70 years old to avoid the “pop” or “slang” culture that has occurred in the century but have not been successful. In my opinion, all of us need to go back to school........even myself.Amanda Franklin-Pulisciano

Amanda Franklin-Pulisciano, A.A., Community College of Rhode Island, at 4:35 am EDT on May 5, 2006

NO to grammar police

I do not endorse Musgrove’s opinions, lamentations, or proposed “ticketing” solution.

The training of proficient writers simply requires lots of practice and feedback. Writing across the curriculum is an excellent vehicle for this.

Musgrove’s “ticketing” system, however, is a non-starter at most colleges. The unique culture of each institution necessitates a unique solution. Furthermore, it is counterproductive for Musgrove to propose a grammar police forceas part of the WAC movement.

Grover Swartzlander, Associate Professor at College of Optical Sciences, University of Arizona, at 5:45 am EDT on May 6, 2006

The real problem, of course, is that we are on the brink of a massive change in the English language, one perhaps as dramatic as the change between Chaucer and Shakespeare. The rise of alternative media and the internationalization of English mean that rules we have lived by for 500 years (like subject-verb agreement) are about to become irrelevant or have already done so. This change has been picking up speed in the last two decades. Very soon, if not now, we will have to teach Standard English to English-speaking students as a foreign language if we want them to understand and use it. As the split between Standard English and current English widens, Standard English will become a specialized skill, as Latin did after the fifteenth century. It may be a badge of status (as Latin was), but it will no longer be the general medium of communication, and the scholarly monographs we are so laboriously perfecting now will have to be translated if they are to reach a substantial audience. I’m sorry, people; tickets are too little, too late.

Linda Darling, University of Arizona, at 9:35 pm EDT on May 6, 2006

To Lisa, Philip, and Professor Lobell, Hirsch gives an interesting example in CULTURAL LITERACY concerning the Black Panthers. Hirsch believes that they were well-read, which proves Lisa’s point. It’s possible that several Civil War soldiers were also well-read, and Hirsch’s example also supports Lobell’s point. It’s likely that their reading habits supported their writing skills.

This implies that no amount of educational reform or strategies will help current or even future students. Writing skills will continue to decline and more will have to adjust because whatever is achieved in the classroom is hardly reinforced outside it.

I get this feeling that the only solution to this problem is to encourage more people (not just students) to read, hopefully well-written works.

Several American families are trying to solve this problem through home-schooling, where children and parents are encouraged to read the classics. For higher education, many children of these families turn to four-year liberal arts colleges where reading the same works is emphasized.

Ralfy, Faculty Member at Ateneo de Manila University, at 1:20 pm EDT on May 7, 2006

Linda:

Latin was a “specialized skill” long before the fifteenth century. There were no native speakers. It was the lingua franca of European scholars who learned both classical Latin and Greek as second and third languages.

As to your concern that we need to teach Standard English (whatever that is) as a foreign language so that kids can understand it, I’m much more sanguine. If that were true, then people wouldn’t be able to understand what was said on TV or in the movies.

Everyone else: pick a time in the history of English (Jonathan Swift is an easy place to begin), and you’ll find elders and teachers complaining that kids today don’t speak, read, or write well.

In fact, the earliest extant piece of human writing is a Sumerian cuneiform tablet from around 3000 BCE. Guess what it says? Kids today can’t write!

Philip, at 10:05 pm EDT on May 7, 2006

I strongly disagree with the notion that “college student’s can write” but choose not to. Part of the extreme frustration students have when assigned papers stems from the fact that they don’t know where to start and how to allot time. More importantly, they usually don’t understand key differences between college and high school writing. Many bad college papers are probably great high school papers—such papers parrot back knowledge in an uncritical fashion and often follow some modified version of the 5 paragraph essay. They give the writer’s opinion about something (without an academic argument).

Charles, at 4:25 am EDT on June 7, 2006

No real demand for good writing

In response to Karen, the engineer who apologized for “shouting” that good writing is a key skill: Was she ever responsible for hiring? I’ve taught English (part-time) for fifteen years, and have been looking for any kind of full-time work involving writing (PR, technical writing, editing) etc. for three years without result. I usually leave off my Ph.D., and sometimes my M.A. in English, because these things are often drags on my employability.

In short, although many people like to complain that “young people today can’t write,” virtually no employer puts his hiring money where his big mouth is, and seeks out good writers. In one of my classes, every one of my students, who all happened to be low-paid peons in their companies, had been given crucial writing assignments in the past few weeks. That’s what employers REALLY think about writing: give it to the lowest person on the totem pole. Just look at the numerous errors tolerated in today’s newspapers, TV broadcasts, and websites, including those of “big-name” media companies that supposedly have a stake in not having many mistakes.

Are we surprised that college students pick up on these attitudes and regard writing as not really important?

Gypsy Boots, at 1:15 pm EDT on June 19, 2006

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