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NCAA Panel Disses the Faculty

November 27, 2006

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Back in January 2005, Myles Brand, president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, commissioned the NCAA Presidential Task Force on the Future of Division I Intercollegiate Athletics. The task force consisted of 50 university and college presidents and chancellors. It was charged with addressing, mutatis mutandis, the two major problems now under investigation by the House Ways and Means Committee of the United States Congress: (1) the financing of intercollegiate athletics programs; and (2) "the danger of cultural isolation of student-athletes from the intellectual purposes and academic values of our universities." The NCAA panel worked for 18 months, during which leaders of two of its key subcommittees retired. One of them was Larry Faulkner, the well-regarded now-former president of my own institution, the University of Texas at Austin.

The report is 64 pages long, but you need not be intimidated by its length. Mimicking the expensive sleekness of the Bible-thick media guides that high-dollar NCAA sports programs like the University of Texas at Austin produce yearly for all their major sports, the report has 13 glossy, full-page photographs of athlete-students either competing in sports events or studying among Greek columns, library stacks, laboratory flasks or computer terminals. Four pages give a photographic rogues’ gallery of smiling presidents and chancellors.

By my estimate, the report proper, with its few statistical charts and figures, runs about 32 pages. In its present form, it is a slick sports brochure, not a serious study.

I concentrate here, though, on the report’s contents, and particularly its assessment of the role of faculty in contributing to or solving the problems it addresses. Frankly, I cannot believe that the man I knew and worked with when he was president at UT Austin, Larry Faulkner, supported what the task force has to say about faculty. Paraphrase or minimal quotation would raise suspicions of distortion on my part. So let me give rather full quotations.

Critical to the future of re-establishing institutional accountability for intercollegiate athletics is the underdeveloped potential for informed faculty engagement in support of presidential leadership. Hampering such engagement for decades has been uninformed, biased faculty members who attack athletics unfairly. (P. 15)

Further hampering the ability for faculty to engage athletics issues and support presidents in the leadership of college sports is the inevitable tension between the horizontal culture of faculty as a peer-driven, loosely organized body and the hierarchical, top-down nature of campus administrations. Nonetheless, organizations designed by and for faculty -- and both old and new -- will be instrumental in diminishing the effect of this tension. (P. 15)

Faculty athletics representatives and faculty senates must work together to bring about a new relationship between those charged with setting the standards for academic achievement and those who guide the course for intercollegiate athletics, and they must do so from positions of well-informed members of the academy itself. (P. 17)

To play a productive role, faculty members must provide informed advice, and they must make the effort to understand the intercollegiate athletics enterprise -- the facts of the matter -- and not merely accept pre-existing biases. Faculty members would never tolerate superficial, uninformed pronouncements in their own disciplines, and they should not do so when they are engaged in making recommendations about intercollegiate athletics. (P. 33)

The faculty athletics representative (FAR) plays a key role in this regard. The FAR on each campus is the faculty member best positioned to appreciate both the dynamics and problems of intercollegiate athletics, and he or she is most likely to understand student-athletes’ academic well-being. (P. 33)

Let us start with one major point. The conspicuous problems that the task force addresses arose under the authority of college and university presidents, chancellors, regents and boards of trustees. These problems relate to institutional goals and priorities, educational principles and values, fund-raising methods and resource management. They are so egregious that Rep. William Thomas, chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, in his official letter to Myles Brand on October 2, easily formulated 25 detailed, multi-part questions for the NCAA to answer, just for starters.

Concerned faculty have been asking the same kinds of questions since the 1920s, with the best of motives. We care deeply about our students and about the western tradition of learning.

Admittedly, I am viewing this report from the perspective of a professor devoted to research and teaching. I have 20 years of experience co-existing with what was recently named the No. 1 NCAA sports program in the nation. If faculty were to have a bias against NCAA sports anywhere, it should be at the University of Texas at Austin, where colossal and costly new sports facilities house the NCAA Division I football champions, a Sweet 16 basketball team, and a perennial contender for the College World Series title. But this is not the case.

The faculty council at UT Austin appointed committees in 1993 and 1997-99 that identified many of the very problems the NCAA Presidential Task Force examined. These committees gathered accurate information and proposed sensible solutions in a cooperative spirit that still prevails on our campus. Our faculty did not lobby to increase coaches’ salaries to the levels they have now reached. Our presidents and regents signed off on those increases.

The head football coach at UT now makes a base salary of $2.55 million per year. By comparison, the entire instructional budget (faculty salaries and other teaching-related expenses) of UT’s number-one ranked petroleum engineering department is only $2 million. The average salaries of the 11 assistant football coaches last year easily outstripped the average salaries of full professors in our law school, the highest paid full professors at our institution.

Faculty did not have the authority to stop the recruitment of a men’s basketball team whose average SAT score is 370 points below the current student body average. No faculty committee at UT Austin proposed constructing an academic environment for football players that sequesters them in their own high-tech study facility with their own tutors and advisers and supervisors, and still leaves them, year in and year out, trailing the entire Big 12 Conference and most of the nation in six-year graduation rates -- 40 percent is the official NCAA calculation.

In 1996-98, at a time when the Texas Legislature was sharply curtailing its yearly appropriations to the UT system, UT embarked on a $100 million stadium expansion project that expended lots of valuable political capital. It was pushed through by Chancellor Bill Cunningham, who was, you guessed it, a former president of UT Austin.

Don’t take my biased faculty word for it. Take the word of ex-chancellor Hans Mark. Mark, who preceded Cunningham, resisted for years the strong lobbying of a group on the Board of Regents who wanted UT athletics to go big-time in the Big 12.

As mentioned earlier, the UT faculty council appointed a committee in 1997-99 to look into many of the same issues regarding NCAA athletics that Congress and the NCAA Presidential Task Force are now looking at. The so-called Wright Committee made reasonable suggestions about how faculty could be effective in balancing academics and athletics and controlling costly sports building programs. Nonetheless, last spring a new $150 million stadium expansion project (now further increased to $178 million) was approved by the regents and by President Faulkner with no appreciable faculty input.

Our current president is trying to follow through on Faulkner’s ambitious plan to add 300 faculty, in order to lower UT’s extremely high student/faculty ratio. To do this, we need more office space, classrooms and laboratories on the central campus, where space was already at a premium in the mid-'90s.

Disregarding the academic side of institutional planning, the $100 million expansion project authorized by Cunningham and the Board of Regents in 1996-98 converted a multi-use stadium (football, track and field, high school athletics events) into a football-only facility. Precious space was then used to build an outdoor football practice field, an air-conditioned indoor football practice field, a track-and-field stadium, and a deluxe athletics center.

Faculty were not consulted about this questionable use of resources, especially scientists who have to commute from central campus to laboratories at a distant satellite facility. Nor were UT’s approximately 35,000 undergraduates. Faculty would love to accommodate their pressing need for more courses offered during prime time. But existing classrooms are booked solid even during non-peak hours.

The NCAA Presidential Task Force criticizes faculty for bias, distortion, superficial uninformed pronouncements, inability to work within a hierarchical structure, lack of effort to understand intercollegiate athletics, and lack of cooperation with the faculty athletics representatives (FAR’s) who are "best positioned to appreciate both the dynamics and problems of intercollegiate athletics."

Their criticisms about faculty unwillingness or inability to understand the nature and realities of NCAA programs are ironic, given that the NCAA Web site lists 15 membership categories including president/CEO, athletics director, current NCAA student/athlete, coach and marketing/public relations/development. But it recognizes no category for faculty, professor, teacher or educator.

The Task Force should provide documentation for the serious charge that faculty abandon their professional scholarly ethics when taking up matters pertaining to NCAA athletics. Such statements are what the late Mayor Daley of Chicago once called malicious "insinuendo." We may all call them what they are: false.

At UT Austin, faculty are reduced by the Handbook of Operating Procedures and Regental Rules to a minor, advisory role in making decisions about large-scale building projects, budgets and salary structures, and the academic side of NCAA athletics. The faculty council itself is marginalized in regard to academics and athletics. Oversight falls to separate Men’s and Women’s Athletics Councils. These committees have special members appointed by the regents and single yearly faculty representatives chosen by the president from a slate of candidates proposed by the faculty council. Like the FAR’s, whom the NCAA Presidential Task Force hails as sources of unbiased perspective, these positions traditionally go to sports boosters who enjoy the perks and insider status their appointments bring them. The results, again, are clear.

The report of the NCAAA Presidential Task Force on the Future of Division I Intercollegiate Athletics makes clear why problems with big-time college sports, identified, according to the report, as long ago as 1915, have never been solved. College and university presidents and chancellors are supposed to set agendas that support the noble social aims of their institutions. They have the power to prevent minor local problems from growing into national issues. They also have the authority to mobilize reform at their own institutions.

In regard to the problems with NCAA athletics, they have failed seriously in all three of these areas. And by going out of their way to blame faculty, the 50 presidents and chancellors of the NCAA task force missed an opportunity to unite with faculty to solve problems that our nation’s elected leaders want us to solve.

Tom Palaima is Dickson Centennial Professor of Classics and the director of the Program in Aegean Scripts and Prehistory at the University of Texas at Austin.

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Comments on NCAA Panel Disses the Faculty

  • Tom does it again
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath , Asst. Professor at Ohio University on November 27, 2006 at 9:10am EST
  • Tom hits it right on the head by explaining in detail how little the faculty are involved not only in athletic matters, but many times--in other areas of higher ed administration.

    My expertise is in college athletics and I chuckle at the assertions in the Presidential task force report regarding faculty engagement. (Tom is right by saying it is hardly a serious study, it is merely PR fluff all over again with no action).

    The tone of "you are with us or not" sounds like a dictatorial ultimatum. In reality, many faculty groups, specifically The Drake Group, have collectively forgotten more about college atheltics than these so called experts. TDG has more breadth and depth of knowledge in these areas (I have been involved in all areas of college athletics, BEFORE I became a faculty member and many of our members have even more experience)--yet we are called "misinformed" and accused of encroaching into unknown terrority where we do not belong.

    Again--what a joke. The establishment is afraid of any group that presents real solutions, and that will upset the apple cart of winning and revenue generation and bring about (shudder) academic intergrity.

    To say the FAR's will actually present true reform ideas and action is fruitless. They typically march lock step with the establishment and have hardly shown the courage to enact real reform measures.

    The NCAA's only defense is to try and discredit faculty members and groups who do know, who can engage, but are a threat. To say that faculty would not tolerate others encroaching in their areas is self serving and disingenuous. The NCAA and college presidents have marginalized faculty more and more in traditional faculty areas such as advising, admissions standards, and institutional governance, while protests against it by faculty have been crushed.

    Who in reality are the misinformed ones' who refuse to engage in real reform? I think that is crystal clear.

    Good job Tom.

  • Don't ask, Dont' tell
  • Posted by Prof. Ignorant Bias on November 27, 2006 at 9:45am EST
  • What the NCAA wants is special privilege for athletes. What I want as a professor is to not even know which of my students is an athlete. They should attend classes like everone else, study like everyone else, complete assignments and tests like everyone else, and attend to their sports "on the side" like everyone else. If the "realities" of modern college sport don't allow that, then they aren't really college athletes, are they?

    Or here's another idea: Let's skip the whole mythology of amateur student athletes and simply have colleges hire professional sports teams for fund-raising and entertainment purposes, much the way they would hire a professional pop band for a dance.

  • Posted by math prof on November 27, 2006 at 9:46am EST
  • "Critical to the future of re-establishing institutional accountability for intercollegiate athletics is the underdeveloped potential for informed
    faculty engagement in support of
    presidential leadership. Hampering such engagement for decades has been uninformed, biased faculty members who attack athletics unfairly."

    Definition. Presidential leadership means
    giving the athletic department anything it wants.

    Definition. Informed faculty engagement in support of presidential leadership means completely agreeing with this.

    Definition. Uninformed, biased faculty members means anybody who does not
    completely agree with this.

    But this whole discussion is a pointless waste of time. Everbody knows faculty
    have zero power here. Administrations
    and athletic departments at colleges
    with big-time sports programs can do
    anything they want (except lose
    football games, of course).

  • Faculty Involvement in Athletics
  • Posted by Peter Wolfe , Professor of Mathematics at University of Maryland on November 27, 2006 at 9:55am EST
  • My advice to any faculty member who thinks that he or she can help bring about reform in big-time college athletics is "fergedaboutit" (sp.?) This battle has been lost. The Drake Group's aims may be noble but their activities are an exercise in futility. They are right, of course, but the athletic interests are just too politically powerful to oppose effectively.

  • FAR's and Faculty Athletics Committees and Presidents
  • Posted by Tom , Dickson Centennial Professor of Classics at University of Texas at Austin on November 27, 2006 at 10:40am EST
  • An informed colleague at UT Austin reminds me:

    Most FARs (as at UT Austin) are appointees of the President and often, in effect, administrators.

    And at UT members of the athletic councils, although nominated by the Faculty Council, are selected by the President (actually our Vice President for Legal and Institutional Affairs, who oversees NCAA athletics reporting).

    In neither case do we have indepoendent oversight or faculty perspective.

    Presidential values are reflected in the fact that the president of the University of Oklahoma declared a school holiday a few years ago when OU beat Texas in football.

    Donna Shalala, supposed liberal reformer and force for academic values when at University of Wisconsin, just
    the other day fired the Miami football coach who had a mediocre season, a couple of years after winning the national championship, and who took Miami from its previous conference into a more lucrative one.

  • the hypo-cracy
  • Posted by j on November 27, 2006 at 10:55am EST
  • presiding over the excesses of media and commercial profiteers, the strangelovian megalomania of the coaching fraternity and the outrageous exploitation of young athletes, who must sit in the shackles of their academic obligation for the term of their elegibility, are the true barracudas of the sordid world of big-time collegiate sports, the college and university presidents whose betrayal of the ideals (see the early pages of their catalogs) of liberal, vocational and professional education deserves all the scrutiny that an increasingly disempowered faculty can pursue or cause to be pursued.

    in addition to the more familiar forms of corruption there is, among others, the unfortunate reduction of the status of physical education as a part of the process of preparing young people for a life of continuing self-education and wellness that might be restored in a program of training and particiation at various levels of commitment, (from the casual frisbee brunch to the edgier club leagues), that would give exercise and self-maintenance their proper places in the curriculum and in those habits of mind that define educated men and women.

    in this regard, many dance departments are far ahead of athletic departments in the quality and scope of their teaching and service.

  • Why do we bother the NCAA so much?
  • Posted by Murray Sperber , Professor Emeritus at Indiana University, Bloomington on November 27, 2006 at 2:05pm EST
  • Tom Palaima and Dave Ridpath refute the NCAA's Presidents report in lucid, well-argued prose. But Peter Wolfe's pessimism deserves a rejoinder (it should be noted that Peter has fought a long and good fight at his school for sanity in intercollegiate athletics). Yes, the NCAA juggernaut rolls on but, somehow, faculty criticisms of it really bother the people who run the organization, and the Presidents report is the latest manifestation of this. You would think that Myles Brand at $900,000--plus a year wouldn't give a damn about what various faculty critics say but, amazingly, he seems to care a great deal. Maybe it has to do with the facts and truth: the faculty arguments have always summoned the facts of the situation--as Tom Palaima does above--and the critics have tended to have truth on their side. But Brand and the Presidents do not tolerate dissent well and so they attack it.
    The bottomline is not to give up, as Peter Wolfe suggests, but to keep digging for the facts and making the arguments. Just remember, if you are pissing off people like Myles Brand, you must be doing something right.

  • Helping to Prompt Congressional Hearings on College Athletics
  • Posted by Frank G. Splitt , Member at The Drake Group on November 27, 2006 at 4:00pm EST
  • INTRODUCTION – Discussions with staffers in the office of Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) were initiated as a follow up to the July 2004, publication of "The Faculty-Driven Movement to Reform Big-Time College Sports” [1]. These discussions ultimately led to the congresswoman's Mar. 17, 2005, remarks for the Congressional Record on The Drake Group's efforts to bring congressional attention to the need for reform in collegiate athletics [2].

    During the course of the discussions, a staffer suggested that I read Pulitzer Prize winning author H. G. (Buzz) Bissinger's best-selling book, FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS, a non-fiction account of life and values in the economically and racially challenged west Texas town of Odessa [3].

    Bissinger's book and his December 2004, article in the New York Times, the National Association of State Boards of Education (NASBE) report, "Athletics and Achievement,” and Palaima's essay may help prompt congressional hearings on the current mess in big-time college sports.

    FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS – Bissinger's story centered on the 1988 Permian Panthers high-school football team. Like big-time college sports in campus communities, Permian football brought the boosters and people of Odessa together to pull for a winning team in a town where victory is prized above all else – no matter the cost. Reading the book was an eye-opening, educational experience as Bissinger presented a disturbing picture of the values and priorities that exist in a football-crazed town, and, in my view, likely exist in many, if not most, big-time college campus settings.

    It came as no surprise that Bissinger served as the editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer as he moved far beyond the sport into a wide-ranging and penetrating sociological commentary on the times and the place. It is this kind of story that we in The Drake Group are striving to tell about the negative consequences of today's out-of-control, big-time college sports business – recommending the book as background reading for Department of Education and Congressional staffers working on the complex, multi-layered issues related to college sports.

    BISSINGER, WELBURN, AND THE NASBE REPORT – Seemingly on queue, the New York Times published Bissinger's article, “Innocents Afield,” [4], at about the same time I finished reading his book. In the article, he called attention to the National Association of State Boards of Education (NASBE) report, "Athletics and Achievement” [5]. The report called for more scrutiny of high school athletics to ensure academics are a priority – standing in sharp contrast to the shallow, self-serving reports and testimonials proffered by the NCAA and its ardent supporters. In his Times’ article, Bissinger quoted from the following remark by NASBE Executive Director Brenda Welburn:

    "State boards of education have a moral obligation to prevent the exploitation of high school athletes. Many of the problems that have plagued college athletics – shoe agents, mercenary coaches, dubious recruiting, and extravagant gifts – are now encroaching upon the high school level. It sends a disturbing message to students and the public about the priorities of our schools."

    Bissinger concludes his article by saying: "... high school sports will continue to fester into shameful overemphasis in too many places, will continue to emulate the college sports model that is America's educational shame. Which means that by the time we completely ruin the institution of sports for our teenagers, it will be too late to do anything except appoint a national commission to try to figure out how we could have missed so many warning signs."

    The NASBE report and Bissinger’s writings ought to be required reading for all those who have a stake in the future of America's education enterprise. Members of the Spellings and Knight Commissions come first to mind, however, when it comes right down to it, academics-over-athletics should be a priority for all Americans.

    WHY A CONGRESSIONAL HEARING – In view of NCAA President Myles Brand's vacuous response to several of Chairman Thomas' questions, one can only wonder how he would respond to Bissinger’s and Welburn’s remarks, especially under direct questioning during a congressional hearing. Such a hearing would certainly reveal the hypocrisy in Brand's overall response as well as in the many self-serving testimonials by school presidents and others with vested interests in the perpetuation of the NCAA's phony amateur "collegiate" sports model.

    The NCAA's use of the phony collegiate model and 'student-athlete' term to defend their tax-exempt programs and modus operandi has served the NCAA well in the past, but at great cost to America's institutions of higher education. This model and terminology have, to various degrees, spawned a culture of academic corruption in colleges and universities supporting big-time football and basketball programs – contributing in large measure to America's educational shame of today and to its potential lack of competitiveness in the expanding technology-based global economy of tomorrow.
    Furthermore, the recently released NCAA Presidential Task Force Report “The Second-Century Imperative,” – covering the future of Division I Intercollegiate Athletics – is a good example of the Faustian-like bargain made by college and university presidents not only to get and keep their jobs, but to maintain the status quo as well [6, 7].

    Taken together, the NCAA’s Task Force report and NCAA President Myles Brand's response to Chairman Thomas' questions underscore the NCAA's arrogant obfuscation and the need for a congressional hearing. Why? – to fully expose the association and its secretive ways to the light of day and reveal the true professional nature of big-time college sports as well as its negative impact on America's K-16 education system. Perhaps thoughtful reading of the NASBE report and Bissinger’s writings by members of Congress and their staffs could help prompt congressional hearings on the current mess in big-time college sports.

    END NOTE – Reading Bissinger’s FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS just after reading David McCullough's JOHN ADAMS revealed the significant change over time in America’s values with respect to education. I also wonder how Adams and our other Founding Fathers would react if they could witness the effects of the distorted values that permeate America’s sport-focused high schools and colleges of today, or, if they read the NCAA Task Report and NCAA President Brand's response to Chairman Thomas' questions.

    REFERENCES

    1. Splitt, Frank G., "The Faculty-Driven Movement to Reform Big-Time College Sports,”
    Foreword by James J. Duderstadt, Afterword by Jon Ericson, http://thedrakegroup.org/Splitt_Sequel.pdf

    2. Schakowsky, Janice D. “Call for attention to the work of Dr. Frank Splitt,” Congressional Record, Extension of Remarks, March 17, 2005
    http://thedrakegroup.org/Splitt_Essays.pdf – p 9.

    3. Bissinger, H. G., FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS: A Town, a Team, and a Dream, Da Capo Press, Cambridge, MA, 1990, Afterword, 2000, Mass market edition, 2004.

    4. _____, “Innocents Afield,” The New York Times, Dec. 14, 2004.
    http://www.nasbe.org/Front_Page/NewYorkTimesFNLArticle.html

    5. National Association of State Boards of Education (NASBE), "Athletics and Achievement,”
    NASBE Press Release, “More Scrutiny of High School Athletics Needed to Ensure Academics a Priority, Say State Education Leaders,” Oct. 22. 2004,
    http://www.nasbe.org/Front_Page/AcademicScrutinyArticle.html

    6. Palaima, Thomas, “NCAA Panel Disses the Faculty,” Inside Higher Ed, Nov. 27, 2006, http://insidehighered.com/views/2006/11/27/palaima

    7. Splitt, Frank G., "Presidents Flex Their Muscles To Maintain The Status Quo In Big-Time College Sports," http://thedrakegroup.org/Splitt_Presidents_Flex_Their_Muscles.pdf

  • What price brilliance?
  • Posted by Bart on November 27, 2006 at 11:00pm EST
  • " .. Just remember, if you are pissing off people like Myles Brand, you must be doing something right ..

    Right. The guy, who finally toppled Bobby Knight, is a schmiel (sp?). Pray tell -- who would be better, as NCAA president? Osama?

    For a moment, assume the CPUSA takes power and D-1 sports end.

    At that point, ~33% of the college student population (SAT-V ~490), bored that 40% of ESPN programming has ended, decide to quit college. They never cared about English and history, anyway -- it was ESPN-only weekends.

    What now, O Brilliant Ones? Who will pay your salaries? Would financial exigency and layoffs be next?

    Think about it. Actually having to face the 'real world.' What a grim possibility.

    Have a nice day.

  • Cry me a river
  • Posted by Joe on November 28, 2006 at 4:25am EST
  • If there's one thing I hate more than the bureaucracy and the corruption of the NCAA, it's pompous intellectuals who think they can solve all of the world's problems. Newsflash: being an expert in Aegean Scripts does not make you an expert on everything. Your article reminds me of Paul Ehrlich, the butterfly biologist who magically turned into a population expert and made many false predictions about the fate of our world.

    Here's the bottom line: football is valued more than petroleum engineering and legal studies (not to mention Aegean Scripts) at your university. So more money will be spent on football. I'm sorry, but that's how the economics work. Maybe the faculty from the economics department should serve as representatives. They surely have a better grasp on the real world than you do.

  • Dear Bart, Please read the DOE report on higher education
  • Posted by Tom , Dickson Centennial Professor of Classics at University of Texas at Austin on November 28, 2006 at 4:26am EST
  • Many thanks for your perspectives. I agree that education these days, and most of life, is too much about entertainment and commercial tie-ins to entertainment.

    cstv.com 24-7 college sports is a good example of this overkill.

    The DOE report on higher education, chaired by former chairman of the UT system Board of Regents, came out in various drafts and a final report last June-August.

    It speaks to the pressing needs to focus on education at all levels and not for any lofty humanistic reasons. Two pragmatic reasons. One is that the security and well-being of our country depends on all facets of our educational system working well for everyone. That includes community college where some students with SAT's lower than your V 490 are, and major research universities with SAT V averages of 625-650.

    The second reason is self-interest. The middle class jobs of the future depend on good educations. So if the 'circuses' are taken away, the bored and unengaged students you describe, who soon will find out the realities of the failing American economic system with its massive personal and government indebtedness, just might buckle down for their own good. And corporations will still need a few English-speakers.

    Even if this doesn't materialize, down-scaling of sports to where there is real competition again, instead of teams like UT Austin drubbing 8-11 teams a year by 25-45 points and up (last year the average UT margin of victory in the 11 games other than OSU and USC was 39.6!!!!!!; this year in the 8 games against non-Top 25 teams, the margin is ca. 27 points) would captivate sports fans with real competition. And it might teeach plaayers someething about themselves.

    It is called parity, and many sports leagues tinker with the draft and schedules to achieve it. Only in the NCAA do D1 power houses get carte blanche to stomp on weaker teams who bankrupt themselves in a spending race they cannot win.

    I received a call from a reporter in Raleigh, NC today. He said that the Duke-NC game 45-44 against featuring two low-rankeed teams was one of the most thrilling games he ever witnessed. http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/112506aaa.html

    So down-scaling the magnitude of over-spending programs will not hurt interest or college attendance as you think.

    Besides, for the kind of student you are profiling, four years living off daddy's and mommy's money will always beat working for a living.

  • Per Curly Howard: "what genius!"
  • Posted by Bart on November 28, 2006 at 9:05am EST
  • " .. Besides, for the kind of student you are profiling, four years living off daddy’s and mommy’s money will always beat working for a living .."

    My, my. TDG has it all figured out.

    One wonders: if TDGers are such brilliant strategists in the field of leading academia -- why do they just remain wage-serfs? Why don't they do a John Sperling and start their own U of PHX?

    Until then -- all their yada-yada is, well, just yada-yada, isn't it?

    BTW: about the ESPN addicts:

    Employers -- who have become de facto janitors for the elegant designs of public education -- sort them out. They give their own placement exams that are rigorous, complex, and cannot be appealed. Bummer!

  • Bart, chill out, man!
  • Posted by Richard Southall , Assistant Professor at The University of Memphis on November 28, 2006 at 11:20am EST
  • Bart and other non-wage serfs,

    Thanks for your cogent and insightful analysis of complex issues involved in college athletics. However, I might also suggest you really need to lay off the Red-Bull!

    While I understand and can appreciate the pleasures involved in "zinging" all of the old Drakies, I might humbly offer an alternative approach. Instead of simply trying to develop a quick one-liner and then yada-yada...quickly end your posting, perhaps you might spend a little bit of time discussing the actual issues. I know it's not as much fun, but don't worry, none of the "wage-serfs" I know in The Drake Group are trying to tell you how to live you life.

    Actually discussing the implications - both moral and economic - of a continuing de-emphasis of quality higher education on our society is just what academic wage-serfs get paid to do. (Your metaphor is actually interesting, in that it got me to wondering, "If I'm a serf, who among us are the kings? I'll look forward to your enlightening me soon enough on who fits your definition of a king.)

    While I know it may seem sanctimonious, but I'd offer a small suggestion: If anyone is interested in a civil and rational discussion of the issues that will be at the center of any congressional inquiry, then I would simply suggest (gently, I might add) that they (and, by extension you) spend time doing the following: 1) Read the initial letter from Rep. Thomas to Myles Brand in its entirety. 2) Read the NCAA's response to that letter (again, in its entirety). 3) Read the NCAA Presidential Task Force Report (yada, yada - entirety). 4) Go to www.thedrakegroup.org and read TDG proposals and several of the articles and commentaries posted there. 5) Go to several sources, Indy Star, NY times, NCAA News, and read articles and commentary on the issues. 6) Formulate and argue your position based on an your knowledge of the facts and others' opinions.

    I know it may take some time, but remember SportsCenter is re-run every hour and in the morning is just a tape-delay of the previous night's show:)

    Oh, and lay off the Red-Bull. It just makes you cranky!

  • And Title IX?
  • Posted by Bart on November 28, 2006 at 3:10pm EST
  • " .. Isn’t that why we have a federal government – to help assure the long-term well being of America .."

    Sure -- that is why funding for higher-ed is currently going down. So much money has been wasted, only fools would keep spending at the current rate.

    To my point: having actually reviewed the budgets at U-Mich, OSU, etc., I'm left wondering --

    If D-1 sports ended (and the TV revenue involved) --

    How would the money-LOSING varsity sports (e.g., women's basketball, men's swimming) be funded?

    Fairy godmothers? Bake sales? Car washes? Layoff the English department and hire adjuncts?

    Awaiting brilliant, enlightened wisdom from above.

  • HELPING TO PROMPT CONGRESSINAL HEARINGS ON COLLEGE ATHLETICS II
  • Posted by Frank G. Splitt , Member at The Drake Group on November 28, 2006 at 4:05pm EST
  • Further to my previous comment, in a nutshell, Palaima takes apart NCAA President Myles Brand’s Task Force Report on the Future of Division I Intercollegiate Athletics — exposing it for what it really is: A neatly packaged NCAA shift-the-blame cover up based on false accusations. But why should this come as a surprise to anyone? Consider the following:

    As I said previously, the report provides a good example of the Faustian-like bargain made by college and university presidents not only to get and keep their jobs, but to maintain the status quo as well, see “Presidents Flex Their Muscles To Maintain The Status Quo In Big-Time College Sports,” http://thedrakegroup.org/Splitt_Presidents_Flex_Their_Muscles.pdf

    President Brand’s answer to a question by House Committee on Ways & Means Chairman Bill Thomas contained a supportive quote from Knight Commissioner Peter Litkins, president emeritus of the University of Arizona, who served as the chairman of Brand’s Presidential Task Force.

    Thomas’ question was: How does the NCAA accomplish its (primary tax-exempt) purpose of maintaining “the athlete as an integral part of the student body?” Litkins, a former collegiate wrestler at Stanford University, was quoted by Brand as saying: “As a university president and former professor of engineering, I have often said that I learned how to be a professor in the classroom, but I learned how to be a university president on the wrestling mat.”

    Litkins statement, like many NCAA-serving testimonials in the past, tell a great story of how participation in collegiate athletics improves fitness, coordination, and self-discipline while providing the spice of college life in the form of camaraderie, a sense of accomplishment and overall well-being — adding comments about how this participation teaches important life lessons, including dealing with adversity, developing a strong work ethic, learning the value of teamwork and building character.

    True enough, but these testimonials cover only the “sizzling” possibilities part of the story – the upside. Jim Duderstadt and I, as well as many members of The Drake Group have participated in collegiate athletics and have also experienced this upside, but are mindful of, and willing to tell the whole story – including the downside.What’s confounding is how the public and those giving upside-only testimonials seem to be so willing to gloss over the downside of the taxpayer-subsidized, highly commercialized version of college sports with all of its related academic corruption and serious, multi-layered issues.

    Confounding as well, is that Americans are not inflamed over of use of steroids and stimulants that jeopardize the long-term health of middle-school, high-school, and college athletes that often lead to violent behavior. We live in a sports-crazed society, the real world where it seems that anything goes so long as it’s entertaining and big money can be made. There is no cry from the public to put an end to the excesses and corruption of big-time college sports, and, there may never be.

    Sadly, in the real world, there will always be notables with a vested interest in the status quo – willing to defend it no matter the cost to the long-term future of America’s higher education enterprise.

    Isn’t that why we have a federal government – to help assure the long-term well being of America by doing what the public and states will not do, or, are not able to do for themselves for whatever reason? It’s why The Drake Group has advocated government intervention to clean up the mess in college sports.

  • Bart, how are they being funded now??
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on November 28, 2006 at 6:00pm EST
  • How were they funded before these sports became revenue generators? My point is much of the money earned is going back into the bottomless pit of an out of control arms race (i.e. take a look at some of the recent coach buyouts). If these sports truly made a profit, we would not have any Title IX problems, etc.

    You are overstating the revenue generation potential of these programs considering over 90 percent lose money.

    So the fairy godmother would be a better run business model, need based scholarships, revenue that is distributed equitably, etc. Most schools had more sports fully funded before the era of television and "big bucks." If college athletics were just managed better many of the financial issues would not be a problem. Other sports could make it fine, BUT the model has to be changed to support those sports as extra curricular activities.

    A definite measure to assist in this would be an anti trust exemption to cap coaches salaries, scholarship reform, and cost containment. That would solve a lion's share of the problems, but few lack the courage to pursue it. Higher education would not fall off its heels if the tax exemption is lifted. In the words of Jim Delany (Commissioner of the Big 10) "It may help us manage costs better and it is difficult to justify some of the things we do."

    Think about that Bart.

  • Wha? Where's your financial analysis?
  • Posted by Bart on November 28, 2006 at 7:45pm EST
  • " .. You are overstating the revenue generation potential of these programs considering over 90 percent lose money .."

    You have provided NO financial/economic analysis for your claims (e.g., Toma, Ga. State).

    You did NOT address the issue of unprofitable women's/men's varsity sport funding via TV revenues.

    Your crowd complains about the corrupting effect of TV/ESPN revenue. Then you claim the programs lose money.

    Which one is it -- profit or loss? Have you ever taken accounting? Do you have any idea, how argumentative, accounting analysis can be?

    Do you have any clue, how money works in D-1 sports?

    If U-Texas is so sports-terrible -- why don't you leave? My guess is, if there was a vote of the UT community -- you'd be voted out, before Mack Brown.

  • Bart
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on November 29, 2006 at 8:16am EST
  • I refer you to the Orszag Report on the NCAA Website, The Frank Report on the Knight Commission Website, and several articles and information on the Drake Grop website which presents overwhelming data that most programs do in fact not make money. The average is--even for your big programs--is one dollar made for one dollar spent.

    I have an immense amount of knowledge how Division I athletics works. Have you ever been a D-I coach (I have), have you ever been a D-I administrator (I have), do you have any empirical research to back up your claims (I do)???

    Not to be cynical--but I want to reiterate that the money you speak of from ESPN etc. is not going back into the non-revenue sports. If it was there would be no sports being dropped and many more being added to meet Title IX and interests. IT IS going into a facilty arms race (most uneeded), uneeded academic support, outrageous salaries, inflated scholarship numbers for football, etc.

    You still have not provided any evidence that higher education would dry up if Division I sports did not exist, and you have not responded to my point that universities actually had more athletic programs BEFORE the influx of the big money. How do you explain that? Shouldn't there be money to burn-so to speak?

    I have read Toma and he makes some great points and I do believe that athletics CAN be an integral part of Higher Ed--just not in the current revenue generation model which is not grounded in education. However I do not support many of Toma's claims based on my own research and existing data.

    As for Texas folks picking Mack Brown over Tom. Well that is a silly statement. We all know that Brown would win overwhelmingly and that just demonstrates what a sad state of affairs we are dealing with. Of course--the next time Brown has a "sub par" season like this one--he will be tossed out on his butt for that next "great" coach. Of course a lofty buyout won't hurt. Then Tom may win a popularity contest--but until then he already has my vote!!

  • Beer & silliness
  • Posted by Bart on November 29, 2006 at 9:45am EST
  • " .. I refer you to the Orszag Report .."

    You repeat the past.

    AGAIN: the Orszag report does NOT -- not, not, not -- definitely say, pro OR con, whether sports are a positive or negative, economically, for colleges.

    My God -- will you ever get it?

    " .. The money you speak of from ESPN .."

    Still no financial analysis. How disturbing.

    " .. universities actually had more athletic programs BEFORE the influx of the big money .."

    Right. And there was no CATV, ice cream was 5 cents/cone, women couldn't vote ..

    " .. However I do not support many of Toma’s claims based on my own research .."

    So -- you have the truth that seeks to destroy college and Toma doesn't? How enlightening.

    " .. As for Texas folks picking Mack Brown over Tom .."

    Mack Brown is a nicer, kinder person than Mr. T., 1000x over, without football. Mack is a builder -- not a complainer and destroyer.

    I don't know what is more ridiculous -- ESPN beer commercials or TDG. ESPN, et al., may destroy themselves with too much debt, money, hubris, alcoholism, etc.

    But for a bunch of professional complainers to try to get government to destroy college sports is even more silly, absurd, and comical. What's next -- require/enforce pre-marital abstainance?

  • To Bart
  • Posted by Tom , Dickson Centennial Professor of Classics at University of Texas at Austin on November 29, 2006 at 10:36am EST
  • Dear Bart,

    I make no claims to greater knowledge than I have. My piece is Texas-focused because that is what I know best from years of service within the University and from having first-rate informants, including provosts, presidents, chancellors, regents, athlketics tutors, student-athletes, and athletics directors, both men's and women's. All these people have been courteous enough to discuss many issues with me. And they have corrected me when I have been wrong and misguided.

    No one is trying to destroy college sports. As I wrote to an athletics director at UT, this is not a witch hunt, but a request for a beauty makeover.

    Put simply, is it necessary to spend $700,000, as Texas recently did, on a Bevo Museum (a museum to its mascot) when a more modest $350,000 museum could have been set up (it is in a relatively compact space) and the other $350K could have gone to educational purposes?

    As for this:

    "Mack Brown is a nicer, kinder person than Mr. T., 1000x over, without football. Mack is a builder — not a complainer and destroyer."

    I have never in any of my commentaries, available at:

    http://www.utexas.edu/research/pasp/publications/editorials/editorialsa.html

    questioned the personal integrity, personal kindness and congeniality of any of the shapers and leaders of UT athletics. I have found them all, as referenced above, to be professional, highly motivated, and successful within their system. They are definitely not cheaters and Texas has been rocked by no serious scandals.

    However, I believe that the system as currrently constructed, is harmful to education, exploits some athletes, and is even ruinous of true competition and true sportsmanship.

    Categorizing critics of any sort as destroyers is only a partial truth. Intelligent critics, and I listen to all of them, as witness this reponse to you, are like skilled physicians.

    They can identify what is probably wrong with their patients and suggest regimens for restoring good health.

    To continue the analogy, there are possibly many different medical opinions for any patient's condition. There are doctors who are quacks and more concerned about their own livelihoods and comforts than their patients' well-being. And there are patients who are unwilling to take or follow prescriptions.

    Lastly, I have no delusions about my own place in all this.
    I am the proverbial gnat on the elephant, who when he is ready to fly off, says "See you, later!" to the elephant, and the elephant says, "What was that noise?"

    Yes, in a state-wide, city-wide, or UT-wide vote, on Mack Brown or Tom Palaima, Mack Brown would win hands down. A large majority would ask, "Who is Tom Palaima?"

    But I know I would get some votes, and some votes that stand for a sensible integration of athletics into academics.

    Thank you for your opinions, Bart. they made me think.

    This is the best explanation of my motives I can come up with.

    Tom Palaima

  • OK Bart
  • Posted by b. David Ridpath on November 29, 2006 at 12:50pm EST
  • Give me your financial analysis then since you are so smart. Show me that the money is going to non revenue sports and education. Since I have worked in college athletics, and you have obviously not, I have seen where the money goes. Have you?

    What does the Orzag Report say then, since I do not understand it? Explain it to me. What does the Frank Report say (you seem to have forgotten that one)? You have not given any data, any explanation, other than personal attacks.

    Again--no one is out to destroy college sports, we are just out to make it what it is supposed to be-College students playing college sports. The model needs to be changed and serious financial management needs to happen (anti trust exemption, scholarship reform etc.) Again I don't care how much money comes from ESPN--as long as it is used for the purpose intended. What I have seen and done personally--it is not being done for the purpose intended, but for all the other things I have mentioned in previous posts. I am sure you cannot present evidence otherwise.

    A change in the tax exemption (so elouquently covered by Frank Splitt)can change the model for the better, to what the NCAA says it stands for.

    What is so bad about that? I again refer you to the Delany quote about mismanagement of the enterprise. Tax the enterprise and all of a sudden they have a better business model--or in the very least exist for the non-profit purpose intended, or lose the exemption.

    SO Bart--is there anything wrong with the enterprise? What are your suggestions? Is status quo the way to go? More nice coaches? More uneducated and expolited athletes? More sports cancelled under the guise of Title IX because the money is being funneled down a bottomless pit?? I could go on and I don't mind talking to you--but I speak from experience that you surely do not have.

  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on November 29, 2006 at 12:50pm EST
  • Give me your financial analysis then since you are so smart. Show me that the money is going to non revenue sports and education. Since I have worked in college athletics, and you have obviously not, I have seen where the money goes. Have you?

    What does the Orzag Report say then, since I do not understand it? Explain it to me. What does the Frank Report say (you seem to have forgotten that one)? You have not given any data, any explanation, other than personal attacks.

    Again--no one is out to destroy college sports, we are just out to make it what it is supposed to be-College students playing college sports. The model needs to be changed and serious financial management needs to happen (anti trust exemption, scholarship reform etc.) Again I don't care how much money comes from ESPN--as long as it is used for the purpose intended. What I have seen and done personally--it is not being done for the purpose intended, but for all the other things I have mentioned in previous posts. I am sure you cannot present evidence otherwise.

    A change in the tax exemption (so elouquently covered by Frank Splitt)can change the model for the better, to what the NCAA says it stands for.

    What is so bad about that? I again refer you to the Delany quote about mismanagement of the enterprise. Tax the enterprise and all of a sudden they have a better business model--or in the very least exist for the non-profit purpose intended, or lose the exemption.

    SO Bart--is there anything wrong with the enterprise? What are your suggestions? Is status quo the way to go? More nice coaches? More uneducated and expolited athletes? More sports cancelled under the guise of Title IX because the money is being funneled down a bottomless pit?? I could go on and I don't mind talking to you--but I speak from experience that you surely do not have.

    I also have enjoyed your opinions Bart, they have made me think, but not change my mind. I too am a fly on the wall--why so irritated?

  • Bart before I forget
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on November 29, 2006 at 1:40pm EST
  • I need to explain myself on the Orszag Report. Read it in detail--some of the main issues that comes out are ones that debunk the myths that a winning program produces revenue and other tangalble benefits for the institution (such as increased exposure, fund raising, quality applications, enhanced academic standing etc.) When empirical data shows no significance in athletics enhancing those areas (as it is often portrayed as doing)--then you tell me what the data says?

  • Posted by Bob on November 29, 2006 at 3:00pm EST
  • This is such a diffiult subject to address. The problems go much deeper than the NCAA anti-trust and the true mission of our institutions of higher learning. I don't really know if everyone attends college with a perspective on learning for learning's sake. I think most attend because they want to gain certification for some future career and some attend because it is expected. In any case, probably few attend because learning is intrinsically important. College is, however, a great buffer and time for growth between adolescence and adulthood.

    I really believe the problem with college athletics lies in the fact that young people who cannot read, at even a middle school level, are allowed to come into our institutions, compete for a varsity team on behalf of that instituion, and later leave with those same reading skills. some may even graduate because they work hard, are spoon fed and are guided through the system by caring academic advisors who are trying to help a young person who has been thrown into this system. Remember, these are not bad young people and the colleges recruited them, they did not recruit the college.

    Faculty Senates and FARs need to push the NCAA to require that every prospect signed to a national letter of intent be required to take a reading test at a national site (such as an ACT/SAT testing site) with fingerprinting and photographs. ACT/SAT could easily set this up. No student-athlete should be allowed to participate for a college team until he/she tests at a grade level that ensures the ability to succeed with the assistance of the athletics department's support services.

    Many will say that this is the responsibility of the high school, middle school or grade school. Obviously, many student-athletes circumvent this system and, whether enabled or not, come to the universities with inadequate reading skills. The buck should stop with the college athletics department that recruits the young person.

    Let the coach sign the studnet and if that student-athlete is unable to read adequately, let the athletics departments put their vast resources to the task of remediation. Don't make the student meet academic progress requirements until the student can read. This will put everyone on the same page and take some of the hypocricy out of bringing these students to campus. This will create a situation where coaches are more mindful of the academic achievements of the students they recruit and they may only bring in the real difference maker who may need remediation.

    In the end, if a coach does recruit a student who cannot read well enough to minimally succeed in college, he can not use that student. The coach is forced to help that person be literate which will help that person in later life. It is a win-win in the imperfect world of college and college athletics.

    Anyway, this is positive food for thought.

  • Bart, wake up about Brand
  • Posted by Murray Sperber , Professor Emeritus at Indiana University, Bloomington on November 30, 2006 at 5:15am EST
  • Brand did not bring down Bob Knight. Only one person did that--Knight. Brand enabled Knight from the time he arrived from Oregon, and continued enabling him until the CNN tape of Knight choking Neil Reed emerged in April 2000. Then Brand put Knight on probation. Knight continued to act in his maniacal way and Brand finally decided to stop the bleeding in Oct. 2000. Bart, get your facts right. I was at IU through all the Brand-Knight years, and saw it all. BTW Bart, how about having the guts to use your real name. Even Bob Knight would say that you are a gutless wimp for hiding behind a pseudonym.

  • Posted by Math Prof on November 30, 2006 at 5:15am EST
  • I just heard from a member of our admissions appeals committee that they had a big problem. The Athletics Department awarded scholarships to applicants without bothering to see if they had been accepted. When several were not, we were in the awkward position of having given scholarships to students that we had rejected for admission. The appeals committee let them all in. Wasn't that nice of them?

  • Still laughing
  • Posted by Bart on November 30, 2006 at 10:10am EST
  • " .. Bart, get your facts right."

    Well .. if we're talking about facts ..

    Who was the IU student who rudely addressed Mr. Knight, which sealed his fate, O Great One? You know his name? Some do, O Wise One.

    " .. Even Bob Knight would say that you are a gutless wimp .."

    You and that IU student are totally clueless about Mr. Knight. He still gets national stories; you're a third-rate critic on a gub-mint pension.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soac/2006-11-27-knight_x.htm

    What brave words from someone who won the tenure lottery. You financially indemnify your critics for a public debate -- you'll get a debate you'll never forget, perdedor

    IU is so much better-off, now that you and Knight are gone, it is unbelievable.

  • Orszag, finances, economics
  • Posted by Bart on November 30, 2006 at 12:40pm EST
  • " .. you tell me what the data says?"

    Again (and again) -- Orszag Report says, NO definitive statement can be made, either pro or con; more research and analysis required. SHEESH!!!

    About finances -- Math 101, for cripes sake. No women's varsity sport makes money. Only football, basketball and hockey make money.

    http://www.finops.umich.edu/FormsReports/Reports/2005/cfo/

    Logically (pretend if you have to) -- what does that mean? Does that mean women's varsity sports are subsidized by football fans? Do you understand the difference between a budget and a balance sheet?

    If you cannot figure this out -- if it is beyond your IQ -- go to math help room and ask the honors freshman on duty to help you. I am too busy. G'day!

  • Bart, Bart
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 1, 2006 at 1:20pm EST
  • You have answered my question--there is no significance and nothing to support a successful athletic program bringing these intangible benefits to an institution BUT we constantly say that these mythical benefits are the reason for the arms race, etc.

    That is what the data says Bart.

    Again--come out and state your experience oh knowledgable one, show me one study that supports the finances going into athletics currently, show me one program that could not meet all financial obligations and Title IX by simply containing costs.

    Oh yeah and BTW way Gig em' Go Aggies!! Texas' day is done which I guess means a huge buyout for Mack Brown here at some point.

  • Before I forget
  • Posted by B. david Ridpath on December 1, 2006 at 1:30pm EST
  • Since most football programs lose money--then who is subsidising those womens programs? Use your great IQ to tell me that? Since that is probably too much to ask, I will tell you, institutional subsidies (that take away from academics) and student fees. You probably have never seen an actual athletic dept. budget, but at most schools that is where the money is coming from while this great amount of made by the revenue sports (as the Orszag Report says) goes back into the enterprise of the arms race and those sports.

    The argument that these sports support the athletic department or women's sports simply does not hold water. They are existing to only pay their way--and most cannot even do that-I mean you can look it up.(save a few like your beloved second best team in Texas and schools like Ohio State). You of course will not agree so please state your qualifications and experience, if not--perhaps you should speak to that honors math student you speak so highly of. Plus you don't seem too busy--you are on here every day spouting your uniformed drivel--but I invite you to come to the Drake Conference or Memphis speaker series to state your points. We would be glad to listen to you and see if you can convince us. So far it seems you are nothing more than a fan who refuses to see the facts.

  • A laugh round-about
  • Posted by Bart on December 2, 2006 at 9:45am EST
  • " .. You have answered my question — there is no significance .."

    .. in either position, per Orszag (for the 10,000th time).

    TDG cannot prove its position. Yet, TDG would destroy a 100+ year system that provides minorities and women with opportunities. How sad and unfortunate.

    Obviously, the financial material from the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor was not reviewed. Not one figure -- oh, say, $60+ million -- was cited. How jejune thy analytical powers.

    BTW: about academic standards -- last year, my neighbor, a PhD student stuck teaching a summer design course, personally took out a star running back at a Top 50 D-1 MegaU.

    She had standards, gumption, and documentation. The student obviously dissed her. Not much frackin' fun.

    But all standards -- academic, NCAA -- were upheld. If others can't meet such standards -- they ought to look at themselves, instead of the government. Maybe they ought to find a new line of work, or a new place to work.

  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 3, 2006 at 9:15pm EST
  • Bart read this article below--I had typed a ton of stuff and freaking lost it so this one is shorter. However also check out Intercollegiate atheltics and the american university by Jim Duderstadt.

    Also, please come to the Drake COnference in April. I will buy lunch because I would love to see you argue your point in person. Do you have the guts? or the knowledge to effectiely argue your points in public? I mean stating a 100 year failed experiement is somehow good is laughable. Can't you do better than that?

    If the best you can do is say college athletics provides edcuation for minorities and women--then you are the sad one. How sad it is to pigeon hole minorities by saying athletics is the only way out. If they make it to college--are they even getting a legitmate education--or being exploited??

    Since you do not have relevant experience, I imagine you are just drinking the kool aid as a fan with no facts. Give me data that supports your point--not just Michigan but NCAA wide. Read a Lapchick Report to see how well we are educating these minorities you speak of and you cannot prove that even if they did graduate they received anything in the form of a legit education. What about the ones who don't graduate, and can't master basic skills even after getting a diploma? What is wrong with having college students play college sports? What are you afraid of??

    That is the sad part my man, and I would love to talk more about it. So come out and show your face, but be prepared because you will get facts, data, and more of a debate than you ever dreamed of (Sound familar??)

    The Orszag Report (and the Frank Report you never mention) PROVE that these intangible benefits do not happen--so the we can change the model and still have great atheltics grounded in education like it is supposed to be. Read this, it talks about people much smarter than you or I.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/ny-sphot1203,0,4751925.story?coll=ny-sports-mezz

  • Good close Bart and congrats to your Friend
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 3, 2006 at 9:15pm EST
  • Also I forgot, congrats to your friend. We need more like em' Sadly many are not able to get away with enforcing standards. When we meet in person, I can discuss dozens of real world specific cases

    Your close was excellent Bart. If people cannot enforce what they are supposed to--they should get another line of work. Without proper oversight--it won't happen--AND it is not happening. If goverment oversight OR at least the threat can make it happen--to do the things you talk about--then that is a good thing!

  • Orszag -- again
  • Posted by Bart on December 4, 2006 at 8:50am EST
  • The facts, according to Orszag --

    http://www.ncaa.org/library/research/athletic_spending/2005/empirical_effects_of_collegiate_athletics_update.pdf

    * " .. Our statistical analysis .. suggests no relationship – either positive or negative – between changes in operating expenditures on football or basketball among Division I-A schools and incoming SAT scores .."

    * " ..Previous studies have found that increases in football spending are associated
    with increased spending on women’s sports .."

    I can't imagine, wanting to spend one second, with TDG. If I wanted to hear endless complaining and dross-development, I'd sit in the faculty lounge. Or have lunch in the student cafeterias that have ESPN mindlessly locked-on the big-screen TV.

    Really want to significantly improve college academics? Ban ESPN from campus cable TV systems. Oh, but be sure to have plenty of insurance -- you'll need it.

  • Bart--you are being evasive
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 4, 2006 at 2:20pm EST
  • Right Bart and since there is no significance--why do we (myself used to be included)continually tout that athletics is the front porch and enhances these areas I have talked about. Even dear old Myles Brands talks about just that in his response to the report. There sure as heck isn't anything positive in the Orszag report. The Frank Report certainly says so, as does other research on the TDG site. Which you fail to acknowledge. You also have not answered your "race card" comments. Please give me data that supports your conclusion--or do you realize it is simply a way to justify the enterprise as is. I mean that is a sad statement to pigeon hole minorities by saying athletics is their only way out when they are as capable and smart as anyone to succeed without it--all while getting a legit education (which cannot be proved without academic disclosure). Here is a better one, let them participate in whatever, athletics included, as an impetus to go and get through college as AN ACTUAL college student. Since less than 2% make it to the pros, that isn't to much to ask. Let's give the weak faculty (your friend excluded) the tools to insure academic integrity because they have not shown a willingness to do it themselves. As Duderstadt says, faculty have the ultimate power--not ESPN.

    Your unwillingness to meet for a debate and explain your positions exposes you for what you are--a fraud who has no earthly idea what he is talking about. Sorry we won't see you there, but I figured you would not have the guts to argue and prove your points face to face.

    Shame on you for not wanting academic integrity to 'shudder' be part of college sports. And since you haven't mentioned it--and I cannot figure it out--Are there any problems with college sports? or is it all hunky dory?

    Again--ESPN has nothing to do with this nor do I care. I care about academic integrity. Faculty can call the shots if they want to in this debate. Banning and censorship will do nothing. In fact--you can look it up--many schools do not make any money off TV coverage (MAC and CUSA for example), but they have bought the argument that this type of exposure is significant for the entire university and there is nothing empirical to support that, but there is much to refute it.

    I hope you reconsider coming to the conference or the Memphis speakers series because you surely get more of a debate than you ever dreamed of--or are prepared for.

  • Hardly
  • Posted by Bart on December 4, 2006 at 3:45pm EST
  • " .. you surely get more of a debate than you ever dreamed of — or are prepared for."

    Hardly. Most people, they don't like things the way they are, leave.

    That's how markets correct themselves. It prevents boredom, bureaucracy, endless whining, alcoholism, radiation deaths, etc.

    TDG doesn't like college sports -- find a better place to work. Talk is cheap, and the students know it.

  • Bart you are exposing yourself yet again
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 5, 2006 at 11:26am EST
  • First off--where is the proof "most people like it the way it is." In fact the Knight Commission has conducted surveys that shows more than 70% of the public believe the system is out of control and changes must be made.Hardly--"most people" Bart. Facts please.

    We in TDG have never made a statement that we "don't like college sports." Where do you get that?? In fact we want to save college sports and make it what it is supposed to be. You still don't acknowledge that there is a dearth of academic integrity in college athletics even at the lower levels and in non-revenue sports (See Game of life and Reclaiming the Game).

    So we are supposed to just accept it and move on? I remember the "Love it or Leave it" stance when we were involved in Vietnam. I guess it is just better to sit on the sidelines and not try to make something better or reform a process that has totally strayed from its stated mission. It can be done better and it must be done better. So sorry Bart--we are not leaving. This is America and debate and critical thinking are our core values. I care not to bow to the whims of a closet totalitarians like yourself who just can't handle facts or debates on the issues.

    Good thing you weren't at Jonestown--you would have been the first in line for the Kool Aid.

    PS I hope you are not faculty, because I can't imagine what happens if a student disagrees with you. You were the one who challenged Murray Sperber to a debate--so come out and prove your point.

    PSS I love college sports and I have been a season ticket holder for all sports at every institution I have worked at. I just know (from experience) how it is being done and how it can be done better.

    Your move, Bart

  • As always--more
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 5, 2006 at 11:26am EST
  • Plus Bart you are correct--talk is cheap, but TDG has a plan, a real plan to fix the problems regarding academic integrity. So we don't just talk--we speak action. It is no accident that congress is looking into this matter. Is that talk or action??

    So we don't just talk, like the NCAA or the presidents and guess what--the students know it. In fact we have many students who are jumping on board as members (athletes included). Amazing for a group that "hates" college sports.

    Keep it coming--I am not going anywhere, but I am staying very busy on our action, not talking, plan.

  • 43,486,574-to-6
  • Posted by Bart on December 6, 2006 at 9:05am EST
  • " .. where is the proof “most people like it .."

    The facts, on college football attendance --

    http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/2005/2005_football_attendance.pdf

    Only 43,486,574 football game attendees to little TDG. How amusing!

    Utoptians really enjoy dreaming up perfect worlds for 43.5 million football ticket-holders -- on someone else's dime. As noted -- be sure to have enough insurance -- might be needed.

  • You just keep getting worse
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 6, 2006 at 9:30am EST
  • yes the Knight commission surveys mean nothing and everyone thinks it is all ok?? Let's just let the system rot some more. Remember many of those who want the system fixed are also season ticket holders--but I guess they don't count or care? Have you talked to all of these millions of folks you say think everything is ok??

    I guess you do have all of the answers, but until you come out and state who you are and debate publically your arguments will be like you are--weak and pathetic. I think you need to move on Bart to live in your utopian world--I mean more people voted for GWB in 2004--so I guess that means they are all satisfied and want no changes? You are truly sad. Come out like a man and tell us who you are. TTFN

  • So smart?
  • Posted by Bart on December 6, 2006 at 3:55pm EST
  • " .. everyone thinks it is all ok??"

    Why, of course -- 43.5 million to six is an indication, the six are right.

    How stupid of those 43.5 million. Like the few non-Republicans at Columbia, they are so ignorant. How dare they waste their own money. They should listen to their intellectual-betters.

    BTW -- say hi to your bitterly-disappointed retiree friends. Be sure they get those free refills of McDonald's coffee, before the protest for higher taxes.

  • yawn.....you really are something
  • Posted by B. David Ridpath on December 7, 2006 at 8:10pm EST
  • I guess you speak for all the 45 million. Bart the famous who refuses to come out. No I am not a retiree and probably younger than you are. I just am a military history buff, so I can speak authoritatively on Vietnam. I surely don't remember it.

    I do remember many people supporting that war and our current one. I guess because there were "so many" it just made it right.

    Sign off Bart until you come out with your real name, or have the guts to come to our conference. Tschuss.

  • Ya convinced me
  • Posted by Bart on December 7, 2006 at 11:05pm EST
  • Terminate Mack Brown's contract -- and you and your cohorts's contracts.

    Privatize gub-mint subsidized educational institutions. Reduce costs, decrease tuition and loan burden on students. Even The NYTimes is ready to listen.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/opinion/06ryan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    Mr. Ridpath, good luck in the new world of academia. You appear to have serious need of it.