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Fear and Humiliation as Legitimate Teaching Methods

October 28, 2008

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A psychoanalytically inclined friend of mine once told me that you can tell the important dreams not because you know what they mean, but because you can't get them out of your head. As an anthropologist I've noticed something similar about ethnographic fieldwork: You live through moments that immediately seem important to you, but it is only after chewing them over that you realize why. I had one such moment recently that taught me, deep down, that I firmly believe in the power of fear and humiliation as teaching methods. This insight came to me late last month in the course of having my ass kicked repeatedly by Kael'thas Sunstrider, son of Anasterian, prince of Quel'Thalas, and servant of Kil'jaeden the Deceiver.

This high valuation of fear and humiliation is not the sort of thing that you hear at the pep talks organized at your campus teaching and learning center. Perhaps this is not surprising given the non-traditional subject which provoked it. I study people who play World of Warcraft. Warcraft is one of the world's most popular videogames, home to over 10 million people who enter its high-fantasy world to become murloc-slaying gnomes and felsteel-smelting blacksmiths.

As players slay monsters and explore dungeons their characters progress, become more powerful, and develop an inventory of every more powerful gear. There are lots of things you can do in-game, from player-versus-player battle fields reminiscent of arcade game shoot ‘em ups to obsessive hoarding of gold earned by, for instance, picking rare herbs and selling them to players.

People play Warcraft for many reasons, but the guild that I am studying plays it to raid. Four times a week we get a posse of 25 people together to spend four hours to explore the most inaccessible, difficult dungeons in the game, find computer-controlled “bosses” of ever-increasing difficulty, and slay them. Of all of the things to do in World of Warcraft, raiding is the hardest and most intense. It requires powerful characters and careful planning. Of the 10 million people who play Warcraft, 9 million have have never even stepped foot inside the places we have been, much less kicked the ass of the bad guys that we found there. We have a Web site, we have headsets, and we are serious. I don't study “the video game as genre.” I study the way American cultures of teamwork and achievement shape online interaction. As an observer my mind boggles at the 20-80 hours my guildies spend in-game every week. As a participant I'm super proud of our accomplishments.

Enough exposition. In late September our target was Kael'thas Sunstrider, the blood elf prince who broods in the floating Naaru citadel of Tempest Keep. The fight against Kael is legendary for its intricacy: First the raid must defeat each of his four advisors in turn. Then his arsenal of magic weapons must be overcome and turned against the advisors, who Kael resurrects. Finally the raid has the opportunity to fight Kael and his pet phoenix. In the final stage of the fight, the raid must struggle to down Kael as he removes the gravity from the room and leaves the raid hanging, literally, in mid-air. Whole guilds have broken up in rancorous self-hatred after struggling unsuccessfully to down him.

Recently we tried to get some help by inviting to our raid members of another guild, which had already downed Kael. Almost immediately I could see why its members were successful -- their raid leader did not pull his punches. In the middle of fight I would hear him saying things like "Xibby, don't think I don't see you healing melee -- please do your job and focus on the tank." At times -- like when our Paladin failed repeatedly to engage Thaladred the Darkener, who responded by repeatedly blowing up our warlocks -- voices were raised.

I was impressed by their professionalism, their commitment to high standards, and their leader's willingness to call people out when they made mistakes, but most of my guildmates didn't feel that way when we chatted after the raid in our online guild chat.

"i’m sorry but my husband dosen’t curse at me and no guy on wow will either" said Darkembrace, a shadowpriest who was also a stay-at-home mom in Virginia with a 3 year old daughter and a 75 pound rottweiler in the IM discussion.

"yeah," said our 18 year old tree druid Algernon, summing up the mood succinctly. "fuk them please never invite them back lol"

That raid passed into the guild's collective memory without further ado but, like an important dream, it kept running through my head. I had always known that raiding is a form of learning. It takes weeks of time and dozens of deaths before a guild-first boss kill, and even more time until a boss is so routinely killable that he is, as we say, “on farm.” But it wasn't until those Kael attempts that I realized just how similar raiding and teaching are.

A 25-person raid is the same size as a class, and like a class its leader can only take it to places places that it is willing to go. Teaching, like learning to down a boss, is about helping people grow their comfort zone by getting them to spend time outside of it. The question is how to push people so that they will be ready to learn, instead of ready to tear their hair out.

Raiding has taught me that being a good teacher requires laying down strict guidelines while simultaneously demonstrating real care for your students. The stronger the ties of trust and respect between teacher and student, the more weight they will bear. In the past I've cringed when my raid leaders cheerfully announced that we would spend the next four hours dying over, and over, and over again to a boss who seemed impossible to defeat. But I've trusted them, done my job, and ultimately we have triumphed because they insisted on perseverance. The visiting raid leader who took us through the Kael raid lacked that history with us -- he was too much of a stranger to ask us to dig deep and give big.

A willingness to take risks can also be shored up by commitment and drive. Our guest leader drove my guildies nuts, but impressed me with his professionalism. Does this mean that after graduate school even generous doses of sadism seem unremarkable? Perhaps. But it also indicates that I was willing to work hard to see Kael dead, even if it meant catching some flack. For them, it was a game, and when it stopped being fun they lost interest.

What I learned that night was that I believe in the power of fear and humiliation as teaching methods. Obviously, I don't think they are teaching methods that should be used often, or be at the heart of our pedagogy. But I do think that there are occasions when it is appropriate to let people know that there is no safety net. There are times -- not all the time, or most of the time, but occasionally and inevitably -- when you have to tell people to shut up and do their job. I’m not happy to discover that I believe this, and in some ways I wish I didn’t. But Warcraft has taught me that I there is a place for "sink or swim" methods in teaching.

We never did get Kael down. Shortly after our shared guild run the powers that rule the World of Warcraft decided that the Kael fight was too hard and have "nerfed" it -- made him lighter, fluffier, and easier to kill. We’re headed back in on Thursday, but our victory now seems as hollow as it will be inevitable. My guildies will take the nerf and love it, because burning down a boss that used to wipe them out will make them feel like gods. To me it will be a disappointment, because their pleasure in victory will be proof that we were never willing to do what we had to in order to become the kind of people who didn’t need the nerf.

Teaching is about empowering students, and Warcraft has taught me that there is a difference between being powerful and feeling powerful. We had a chance to grow as a guild, but in the end we just couldn't hack it. In the course of all this I learned that I am a person whose believes that there are some things in life too important for us to give up just because achieving them might make us uncomfortable.

Anthropologists love to tell stories of their emotional communion with the people they study. This story ends on a darker note, because what I learned from my attempts to kill Kael'thas Sunstrider was that I was not the same kind of person as my guildies -- a fact made even more disconcerting by the fact that we are supposed to be members of the "same" culture. My fieldwork has not taught me to find commonality across cultures, but to see diversity within my own. Playing Warcraft has taught me that I have a dark side when it comes to pedagogy which I wish I didn't have -- I’ve realized that a seam of commitment that surfaced in one place in my biography lies hidden in another. Does this mean my guildies need to care more, or that I need to learn to care less? It’s a question that I try not to ask, because I’m afraid I might not like the answer.

Alex Golub is an assistant professor of anthropology at the University of Hawaii at Manoa who blogs at Savage Minds.

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Comments on Fear and Humiliation as Legitimate Teaching Methods

  • Oh, no
  • Posted by Frank on October 28, 2008 at 10:20am EDT
  • You can't tell students what to do. They pay the bills and bring in taxpayer dollars. You have to sugar-coat everything. Unless, of course, they are male, and then you can abuse them. So what if they really don't learn anything useful -- that's not our job.

    Or are you looking for a meeting in the provost's office?

  • Nice "SIE" (Significant Intellectual Event)
  • Posted by David Anderson on October 28, 2008 at 10:30am EDT
  • Nicely expressed. I currently teach at a community college and the level of achievment here vs. my time in the service is the difference between puttering on the city streets and the interstate. The difference? In the Army (regularly "best this" and best that" we did not take "professional" criticism "personally". Here at the community college the vast majority of the faculty and staff have no idea that "professional" and "personal" can be separate - and no one wants to hurt anyone's feelings. So, the level of group performance is pretty low - and the students suffer becasue of it.

  • New way to exploit video games
  • Posted by Worried Observer on October 28, 2008 at 11:05am EDT
  • If people will spend that much time on video/computer games, maybe we should make them available freely to people we'd rather not be fighting. They'd get too hooked to pick up their real weapons.

    Better question, what is it about the games that "seduce" the players? How do we change "education" to inspire that type of passion and commitment?

  • Is this writer for real?
  • Posted by Wade Hannon , Associate Professor at North Dakota State University on October 28, 2008 at 11:05am EDT
  • A game as "teaching"? His whole article is either absurd and/or he is pulling our collective legs.

    If he is serious, we need Paulo Freire to return from the grave!

    Why on earth would IHE publish this?

  • Posted by Military Historian on October 28, 2008 at 11:30am EDT
  • Is Wade Hannon for real? Quite a few institutions, including the US military and the National Security Council, use games as teaching tools. There is a growing and vibrant collection of academic games and simulations -- and more and more of them are computer-based.

    The format may be different, but the notion of gaming and education is quite old. The Prussian General Staff, a group not noted for its fun-loving nature, developed military simulations to help plan their operations against the French in the 19th century.

  • From A Friend Of Prince Duncan
  • Posted by Frizbane Manley on October 28, 2008 at 1:00pm EDT
  • I know this will seem trite to advocates of WOW – and I have never “played” it – but, back in the day, I was so proficient at that wonderful old Mac Plus challenge, “Dark Castle,” I routinely accompanied and helped Duncan overcome all challenges up through the 14th level where he slew the evil Black Knight (actually he humanely dumped him off his throne). At that point the program returned players to the first level where, if you were really expert, you could repeat the process. Anyway, I was so good at Dark Castle, I discovered that at the conclusion of the ninth repetition – an almost unheard of accomplishment – a bug in the software would freeze your computer and that was that. Time to reboot. And how did I learn that? Being the committed scientist I was at the time, through the revered concept of repeatability ... and I mean I toppled the Black Knight nine consecutive times and froze up my Mac Plus on many, many repetitions.

    My young sons were impressed, but they -- one became a world-class expert at Dungeons and Dragons and the other, 14 years junior to his older brother, became an EverQuest and WOW aficionado who has sold more than a few of his characters on eBay (shhhhh) -- both taught me the go-it-alone expertise of Dark Castle paled in significance to the knowledge, teamwork, communication, and expertise required to be successful at their “games” ... and, yes, I realize D&D and WOW are much more than games.

    Now, Professor Golub, I greatly enjoyed your essay, and I can tell you I have, almost always to great effect, asked a talented but underachieving student to stop by my office where I told hir to either shit or get off the pot ... or either get hir ass in gear or move on ... or either buckle down and quit wasting hir time and mine or drop the course ... or recommend some other pedagogically outrageous advice. As time went on – and as political correctness and academic wussiness became epidemic – I sadly admit I employed that strategy less and less often. I did my best to motivate my students to be life-long learners, but I rarely employed brutally honest strategies for the purpose of inspiring those who, apparently ignorant of the consequences, seemed to bask in the putrid warmth of academic and intellectual mediocrity ... the consequences of which are, unfortunately, ubiquitously apparent in the current election.

    What I hope you will do, however, is write at least two companion piece to your essay, ones that focus attention on (1) the essential nature of communication and teamwork for successful negotiation of WOW and (2) the value of the broadly-based, WOW-inspired social networks for personal development. I am especially interested in the latter, because I believe the teacher-student interaction (which is the focus of so much of the content of InsideHigherEd) pales in pedagogical significance to the interaction of students with each other; i.e., we should be doing much less teaching (professor pontificating in front of a classroom of students) and a Hell of a lot more engineering of learning environments (enabling students to interact with each other in a manner that inspires life-long learning).

    But back to the subject ... I admit there is a dark side of computer games – and there are definitely personal and professional costs to spending as many hours per day tapping on a keyboard as I do – but young people are not captivated by the games solely on the basis of their latent desire to be violent. Indeed, I’ll bet if you conducted a serious analysis of the content of their on-line communication after “playing,” you will find very little discussion of violence; and, in addition to on-line friendships amongst individuals that transcends even national boundaries, you will find more than a little discussion and analysis of strategy, teamwork, decision-making, and continuous process improvement (in the W. Edwards Deming sense).

    So, Professor Golub, nice essay ... but get to work on your two companion pieces.

    P.S. In the spirit of honesty – and although I require highly structured teamwork on “large” class projects -- I am not a big fan of the educational advantages of teamwork as you see it practiced in higher education today.

  • Fear of Humiliation, not *and* Humiliation
  • Posted by Nick Carbone on October 28, 2008 at 1:00pm EDT
  • The insights may be useful, but keep in mind that most classrooms aren't about 25 students sharing a strategic team objective. Instead, it's 25 people each with differing personal objectives. Some will want to just get through the course; others need to pass the course or else; others are the types who have to get an A.

    So the model where a teacher is a master and commander, managing a battle plan, willing sacrificing some lives here to gain an advantage there, just doesn't hold up.

    That said, almost every teacher has in their syllabi the dire consequence language: miss more than X number of classes, and you get an F; get caught cheating, and you get an F; don't do your homework, and you get an F for homework; and so on.

    What I've found to be true is there are students who will miss class, cheat, ignore homework and do other things that promise Fs, not because they're willing to die for the greater good of the objective, but because they don't care about the course, or don't trust the teacher.

    The F might humiliate them, but often, after resigning themselves to it, they don't fear it.

    I've found that students who come to trust a teacher, who trust that he or she has their learning at heart, who trust that if they struggle legitimately they can get help from their instructors, who trust that the course is set up fairly, will want to succeed, will not want to fail, who will be genuinely humiliated by outright failure. Students seek, I believe, courses that are challenging and which ask them to step out of their knowledge comfort zones into areas where they have to work to learn; but they also so need to believe that the courses are designed to help them succeed, that the instructor cares enough to help them through the missteps and mistakes they will make along the way.

    When this happens, when students believe that a course, no matter how hard, is fair, that the instructor demands a lot but not unreasonably and not without the support needed to succeed, the structure needed to do well, they will internalize things and will not want to fail.

    One will not have to humiliate them; they will see where humiliation lies and will work to avoid it because they will fear experiencing.

    Fear and humiliation works in a military setting or group setting when those upon whom it is practice *want* to be part of the group, part of the team. It doesn't work in most classrooms where there truly isn't a team, and where student success comes from students, student-by-student, coming to care enough to do the work the course requires.

    If you have to humiliate a student to get them to do work, I'm afraid you've already lost them anyway.

  • Having done both
  • Posted by Larry on October 28, 2008 at 4:55pm EDT
  • I've taught for many years both in college and High School on a number of various science courses. I also play World of Warcraft in a raiding guild routinely and have done so for quite some time. In positions of authority I favor the tact of "speak softly but carry a big stick". I try to remind myself that some people are jerks and bullies because their personal life is poor. I can't rectify that therefore myself and the class will always have a price exacted. I've seen actual personal growth in a number of players with regards to maturity, empathy and leadership. These games afford unprecedented opportunity to grow or regress. To think that so much more has yet to come with virtual cultures leaves me rather amazed and hopeful. I found my career and this game to afford an odd synergy that has proven quite beneficial.

  • From WoW to GXC
  • Posted by RJO on October 28, 2008 at 8:15pm EDT
  • For related analytical comparisons between military and university organization, as well as reflections on the virtue of mapping games onto the real world, see "The Regimental College":

    http://collegiateway.org/news/2008-regimental-college

  • What was I thinking?
  • Posted by Alex Golub on October 29, 2008 at 5:10am EDT
  • When I first published this piece I was apprehensive because I thought the theme -- my ambivalence about the human cost of excellence -- would be misread as unnuanced sadism. I was also apprehensive because this is the first piece published about my research, and it would be the first chance for the guild to see what being involved with an anthropologist meant for them, and my piece was not uncritical of our performance.

    It turns out that I didn't need to worry -- the comments here are thoughtful and serious. Equally, my guildies who have read this have been very supportive -- with one exception: I claimed that Thaladred was not successfully tanked in our TK run that night, which everyone knew was obviously wrong -- Thaladred can not be tanked at all. I meant 'Lord Sanguinar.' I apologize for the error.

  • Oh dear
  • Posted by Cricket on October 29, 2008 at 10:40am EDT
  • The author would be well advised to read the work of Malcolm Knowles who articulated the principles of adult learning. Not one of them involves fear or humiliation. College students are adults -- like it or not. Their motivation to learn is usually rooted in their desire to succeed, and the more we approach them as adults, the better they respond.

    No one should ever use fear or humiliation in the workplace or classroom. Ever.

  • It used to be called Leadership
  • Posted by Jim C on October 29, 2008 at 10:45am EDT
  • Once up on a time this was known as leadership. Something that most people seem to have forgotten about.

  • Games for Teaching
  • Posted by David Anderson on October 29, 2008 at 12:25pm EDT
  • Yes, games be a very effective teaching device. For History, I'd suggest "Civilization" - which does a very nice job of linking history, philosophy, religion, engineering, scientific research, tax collection, "growing the economic pie", etc. into a society's advance.

  • Excellent
  • Posted by Rich Maloy on November 1, 2008 at 9:30pm EDT
  • Alex, thank you for this article. I can understand your fear before publishing as the stereotype of gamers-as-addicts (especially WoW players) could bias some before reading. I'm glad you decided to go ahead and publish as it is an excellent example of how real people interact and (most importantly) learn from MMO's. It seems to me this positive aspect of our lives needs better coverage in the world at large.

    I think you've discovered what I hope more people will discover in the coming years: gaming is an integral part people's lives of all age/social/geographic brackets (an estimated 50 million people play MMO's). We live and learn both online and offline and one influences the other.

    As you are an anthropologist and a gamer I highly recommend checking out see Nick Yee's Daedalus Project if you have not already seen it.
    http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/

    Good luck in WotLK!

  • I really disagree
  • Posted by Cynthia Cohen on November 3, 2008 at 5:05am EST
  • None of the successful teachers I've had as an undergrad or graduate student used humiliation as a teaching method. Jonathan Spence fielded questions from a 400 student audience in my lecture class, and my TA said his lectures and answers were a "work of art." I don't recall one time where Spence humiliated a student to get across a point of Chinese history. On the other hand, I've had some teachers who did humiliate students, and none of the graduate students wanted to work with those teachers. At one school, a professor intentionally scared off half the students who showed up to the first class. Then with a class of ten graduate students called a Rhodes Scholar winner "dumb," and several grad students specializing in her area "unprepared." None of those grad students wished to work with her on their dissertations. One grad student who this professor liked encouraged her to dance at a party because she felt the professor seriously needed to relax. It's odd when students feel more mature than their professors, yet humiliation as teaching methods inspire students to feel superior and more mature than the professors who humiliate.

  • Posted by Delecious of Mal'Ganis on November 4, 2008 at 8:20pm EST
  • I found this article through WoW Insider, and honestly, I agree and find it interesting.

    I was, at one point, a raid leader (but not for my current guild). I may not have led the T5 raids, but you are certainly right.

    I took skills learned from directing theatre in my raiding; I may not have been sadistic like the other raid leader was, but I did make people admit to their mistakes, similar to how I directed in theatre - they had to repeat the correct line, not just have me say it for them, otherwise learning does not happen.

    In any case, great article.

    Zug zug!

  • Posted by JClark on November 4, 2008 at 8:20pm EST
  • I find that the points made rang quite true. To publicly call someone out on their mistake, or worse, their neglect of the task given to them, is usually the best way to get them back on track. It doesn’t work in all scenarios, but in the case of your guild raid, I agree that your guest raid leader was going about it the right way. To do what you were trying to do means having someone watching everyone, and ensuring that everyone is doing their part, so the group as a whole would reach their goal; and he wasn’t afraid to slap them on the wrist for failing to do their part. And of course, the fact that he was new to your guild was probably the reason your guild ultimately rejected him and his method – without him having a position of respect among them, why would they stand for his scolding?

    What you grazed upon in your last paragraph is what I find to be the root of it all: There are simply two kinds of people. WoW-wise, there are raiders, and there are non-raiders. Raiders are dedicated, can take direction from others, learn quickly from their mistakes, and are usually thick-skinned enough to know that their ‘being called out’ for not doing their job isn’t a personal attack, it’s a mild reprimand to get their attention back where it needs to be.

    As a teaching tool, fear of humilation is a powerful motivator, provided it is wielded with care. It’s effectivness is based entirely on that person’s value of their peers’ opinion. Used too often, it breeds resentment and indifference. In the wrong situation, it is utterly ineffective. Used just right, singling out the weaknesses a person needs to improve will draw their attention back where it should be.

    I find that the “offensiveness” of this technique is tempered if praise is remembered as well. If a person who you have scolded begins pulling their weight, a quick ‘well done on *blah*’ goes a long way in keeping the corrected behaviour as it should be. Just a few thoughts.

    I’ll go out on a limb here and congratulate your guild’s success in downing the nerfed Kael’thas. Even if they cannot be called hard-core raiders, they still have accomplished more than most players will.

  • Games can teach, but this isn't the right lesson
  • Posted by Jason Goodman on November 4, 2008 at 10:30pm EST
  • I'm a college physics professor. I spend my days teaching people to do complicated things. And then I go home at night and teach another group of people to do other complicated stuff, because I'm also a raid leader in World of Warcraft. It's kind of a busman's holiday I guess...

    Anyone who questions the author's basic premise -- that online worlds have something to teach us about social interactions in the real world -- has never played one of these games. The social interactions are a core element of the game, and success or failure is determined more by your ability to form, participate in, teach, and lead large groups of people.

    In fact, a raid leader "teacher" in an online game faces challenges a college professor wouldn't dream of. In my physics class today I taught conservation of momentum to a group of mostly-white, mostly-American young people between 18 and 20 years old. This weekend, I'll be teaching the "Battle for Mount Hyjal", which is ten times as complicated, to a group ranging in age from 14 to 70, in background from stay-at-home moms to oil-rig workers, in education from high school dropouts to PhDs. Professors talk a lot about the difficulty of teaching in a diverse classroom -- you have *no* idea.

    That said, though, I don't agree with the author's conclusion, that teaching by fear and humiliation is a useful tactic. There's no question that it can be *effective* -- I've played in guilds led by the sort of folks the author describes, and these guilds are often very successful. And similarly, I think many of us have experienced the stereotypical "fascist professor" in our own education, who rules his or her class with an iron fist, and forces students to come to class prepared, for fear of his/her wrath and humiliation. I think most of us who've experienced that have found that it did, indeed, encourage us to focus on the material.

    However, that stereotype is fading from American college campuses, and for good reason. What is gained in discipline and focus is lost in creative thinking and independence. Students are terrified to explore new ideas, for fear they'll be shot down and mocked. The same is true for leader/teachers in online games.

    When it comes right down to it, most of us in higher education are academics for the same reason 11 million people play Warcraft: because we think it's fun. If we stifle that sense of fun in our students, we do ourselves a disservice, no matter where we're teaching.

  • Far from best practise...
  • Posted by Alex Chesser on November 5, 2008 at 8:30am EST
  • Humiliation as a tool in Education has been abandoned (officially) by professional teachers for decades ... not since the days of the 'dunce cap' have we thought it was a good idea to berate, belittle and abuse in order to teach.

    There is a huge difference between the roles of the various tools for teaching as they develop organically in the virtual world (when built by non-professional) and how teaching *should* be done.

    You've already alluded to this in the article... in the words of your 18 year old friend "don't invaite tham bak plox, LOL!"

    To me, It speaks volumes - what would happen to motivation and support amongst your team if you routinely had sessions of belittlement and beratement?

    What happened to "Wipe Club" the day after the release of the "Fifty DKP Minus" Onyxia Wipe remix? (for anyone who doesn't know, the story goes over 50% of the team quit at the same time)

    Why are there so many guilds that form and fall apart in the span of a few months?

    While humiliation might be a tool that can appear to work in the short term, the long term effects of using it in any educational context, real or virtual will set you up for disaster.

    Thanks for the article! Interesting.

  • Raid Leader is a Teacher, but a Teacher who is also a Student
  • Posted by Cassandra D on November 5, 2008 at 10:05am EST
  • As a relative intelligent adult, and a player of World of Warcraft I thought I might clear up a few things.

    I've played with Raid Leaders who do not hesitate to call fellow raiders out when they are letting out the team "Mass Dispel. No, Tik, not fast enough" and just having your name called out is enough to make everyone sit up and pay attention.

    It's humiliating - but it's not a personal humiliation. And even though you're on a conference call with 24 other people it rarely feels personal when you're talking about something in the game.

    But the biggest difference between a Raid Leader and a Teacher in my mind is this - the Raid Leader is also a player just like you. When you're not wiping on Kaelthas you might be chatting (telling war stories!) or questing together. When something new happens in the game (eg a new item is released) you will learn and discover it together at the same time.

    And furthermore, I don't know any successful Raid Leader who has not proven themselves to be a good person (to some degree) and a fantastic player (what everyone playing aspires to be). Raid Leaders earn the respect of their raiders.

    On a side note, our Raid Leader is a 16 year old boy from the other side of the country. Most of the officers in the guild are 10 years older. Over the last year we've coached him on when to be firm and put his foot down, when to ignore someone wanting to start an argument and when to just log off to cool off.

  • Posted by Marion Jensen , This rings true on November 5, 2008 at 12:35pm EST
  • Excellent article, and one that rings true. I have played WoW for 2 years now, and as I leveled to 70, I always considered it a game. I started raiding in endgame, and my first experience was with a person just like you describe above. I wanted to tell the guy, "back off, it's just a game". And then I started doing raids with pickup groups, and groups that didn't take it seriously. I realized that these kinds of groups will never be able to progress, at least not like I wanted to. To progress, you need exactly the personality described above. It reminds me of a good coach. Somebody who demands your best, all of the time, and isn't afraid to get a bit rough, if he/she thinks you aren't performing to the best of your ability.

    Again, thank you for some great insight. Very well written.

  • Posted by Parsec on November 26, 2008 at 3:40pm EST
  • I think a number of people have misinterpreted the message here.

    I don't believe that Alex is advocating that humiliation should be an integral part of teaching - the anecdotal comments regarding teachers who rely on this should be enough to dissuade anyone from trying to follow such a maxim.

    However, it is a legitimate option in a teacher's arsenal of techniques. There is considerable difference between a student who is not afraid of failing a student who is comfortable with failing - the first takes risks and strives for great success, while the second does not. Failure should still hold undesirable consequences rather than standing as a lesser, but still acceptable, outcome.

    The second, and equally important message, is that this technique only works when trust and respect has already been established. Without this, the fear is simply transferred to the person administering it rather than to the situation. In situations where timing is critical, the student should expect that there will be times when success will be considered more important than their feelings. But they will only be willing to make that personal sacrifice if they trust that the teacher has their own best interests at heart.

  • Posted by Jeromai on November 26, 2008 at 7:35pm EST
  • I can't help but think what you're interpreting as "fear and humiliation" is your own personal reading of events. For you, it may indeed be important to be fearful of letting anyone down during a raid, and afraid of getting "called out in front of the class" and any humiliation that might follow from that.

    Isn't it possible that the missing ingredient was merely good feedback from an expert? As and when the raid leader noticed something wasn't right, he picked up on it quickly and mentioned it, and asked for it to be fixed, by the person responsible.

    The issue of whether any cussing or swearing or belittlement of the responsible party was needed might be an entirely separate thing. (And might have suggested why your guild never wanted him back.)

  • Relevant
  • Posted by Hexadecimal on Daggerspine EU on January 7, 2009 at 8:00am EST
  • After reading an interview at www.wowinsider.com with the author, I was tempted to see what else he had to say. His comment is in my opinion honest and to the point. He presents it well and has not merely scratched a piece together. I think we can all agree that his factual view on the topic makes it easy to understand. He pulls no punches and “says it like it is”. The reason I say this is because that is what a Raid leader should be doing. Accessing and presenting. If "Ironmaiden" the dwarf healer is not performing her function correctly she should be told, openly. We must not forget that the study is being done on a guild and as such examines the relationships that form and the different tools that those relationships afford.

    “People play Warcraft for many reasons, but the guild that I am studying plays it to raid.”

    With that being said, can we not assume that the goal here is progression? And if a group of diverse individuals share a common goal, in an environment that is trust based with people that you have built relationships with, why should a raid leader not call “Ironmaiden” out on a mistake? Obviously I am not advocating the use of blunt humiliation to get a message across but I don’t think that author is either. I am 26 and I have played many different types of online game with varying success over the years. Currently I raid as often as possible in order to gain experience and progress. A raid leader that calls me out when I do the wrong thing and points me in the right direction will have my vote over a Leader who a) Says nothing and lets the raid the he is leading fail because he was to afraid to correct my mistake or b) Completely destroys me without offering at least a word or two’s good advise to correct the mistake.

    Alex I look forward to reading more of your work. I find it relevant and thought provoking.

  • Excellent
  • Posted by scotty of shattrath (EU) on January 7, 2009 at 11:05am EST
  • Really interesting article! being a student myself and having been a successful raid leader back in the t4 content, I must say that this is true. When I think back to which professors I liked most in high-school or now in University I have to be honest: They were never the "nice guys". In fact most of them were authoritative and firm. They kicked you out of class for being loud or they would randomly ask people questions about the material at hand, which led to the point that most students came prepared and thus we were able to "progress" quicker and with, ultimately, more joy.

    As a raid leader i have been tough on the others. As said before the communication happens over voice chat in these raids. We had 50 year old dads in my raid and 15 year old kids, and my job was to bring them all together.
    Someone mentioned earlier, that everyone in a class has not the same goal, unlike in a raid. that's not true. people have different attitudes on how to react to failure, how long one should try etc. I found it always best to keep the tone on a lighter side during the easier encounters and the so-called "trash mobs" between the actuals bosses. but when you engage that boss that keeps killing your group, I have made it very clear that there is to be ABSOLUTE SILENCE on the voice-com except for me. And the people adhered to that and we progressed quick. And when the people messed up I sometimes got loud, and if I messed up for announcing something wrong I apologized. due to my scholarly obligations i stopped being a raid leader, but the pride you feel when that one guy who just always screws up plays the strategy pitch-perfect is something that i always enjoyed.

  • Posted by "Core-Raider" on January 8, 2009 at 5:20am EST
  • Having just read an article about this author on "www.wowinsider.com" I thought I would like to view some more of the author's work, however I agreed with his points I was highly dissappointed when I read comments from other educators, being a student I have always envied those teachers who connected with me most. (Yes I am a WoW player as well as a student) One of the people I consider my best friends is actually a teacher I met while playing the game. I think something many of you educators lack to see is the effect of your ability to connect with the students in an "out of classroom" manner. Now looking back it seems the classes I most enjoyed were the ones where I could connect with the teacher on some level, many of these classes I even struggled in, perhaps because I wanted something to accomplish. Anyways pardon my poor grammer and spelling, I was never the greatest in English and literature courses.

  • Interesting
  • Posted by Rogue Raider on January 13, 2009 at 12:15pm EST
  • I'm suprised at the educators denouncing the article. Just because a weapon is in your arsenal doesn't mean you use it, but it also doesn't mean it isn't viable. As a student, my favorite classes were always the ones with interaction. The professor cared about the subject, engaged us, and there was a shared learning experience.

    In my 4 years in WoW I've done everything from casual pvp to hardcore raiding (currently US top 100), the most successful guilds raiding or otherwise are similar to those classes. A group of individuals with shared goals and desires. My guild is very successful. The leadership council expects people to be accountable for their actions. We all have the shared goal of progression, and we meet our goals. Thankfully without having to resort to fear and humiliation.

    Interesting study and enjoyable read.

  • Reading the Space
  • Posted by Cynthia Leonard , Communication Studies Student at Randolph College on August 13, 2009 at 12:15pm EDT
  • Mr. Golub is a unique resource. Most of the scholarly WoW work I come across is written by a 50-something character who doesn't know the first thing about end-game content. (They are also Horde 90% of the time, which presents an unhelpful bias.) Since I spend nearly all my time in-game raiding or preparing for raiding, I appreciate having a similar view presented in an academic format.

    Now, down to the meat of it. I am currently researching for my capstone project, to be written over the course of the next nine months. I plan to read the space of WoW. How do the creators of the game (those who send the messages) effectively communicate with the players (those who interpret and receive the messages) through visual, audio, and linguistic means? This is very broadly defined--I realize this--but until I find a specific area about which I can write 60-80 pages, it will stay broadly defined.

    I am interested in your thoughts about the "space" of end-game content, in both BC and WOTLK. I make notes from time to time as my guild progresses through Ulduar, but your insight would be greatly appreciated! You can contact me at cjleonard@randolphcollege.edu or in-game on the Ghostlands (US) server as Tseluiklitor, balance/resto druid. Thanks :)