Language suitable to public discourse

What was the man thinking? That he was the howard stern of technical writing?

At least you can turn howard stern, or rather, the radio, off. To pay money to sit and listen to a grown man show how cool and edgy he is by trotting out tabu words... Puh-leeze!! How well did he know these students? were they all his friends? Was this really a part of his educational approach? Or just a childish flaunting of power? I can say whatever I want ‘cause my mom’s not here!

Perhaps the reality is — the “relationship” was ignored as messy and vague and hard to nail the guy for — but still concerning to those in administrative responsibility — careful! I am not saying this was the right way to deal with this inappropriate relationship, but just that a big red check went next to his name from that, and when another complaint was submitted that was cut and dried,could be summarized in its entirety in 20 words or less and very very clearly was behavior inappropriate to the workplace — which is what a classroom is for a teacher — he handed his chair the stick with which he was whacked. I think he was due for one, too bad it was handled in a way that made it indirect and unclear and offered him options to feel persecuted and unjustly treated instead of rethinking his selection of language suitable to public discourse.

What a silly silly shame. That’s great the teaching evals were good despite the departure of the older student — maybe the student that was the same age as he didn’t feel like ignoring the potty mouth, while the younger students thought this was “cool". Hopefully, the “cool” language didn’t of itself significantly elevate his teaching evaluations. Silly.

Azure, at 11:55 am EST on December 4, 2008

@Azure

I really think you missed the point when you wrote:

“...maybe the student that was the same age as he didn’t feel like ignoring the potty mouth, while the younger students thought this was ‘cool’.”

From the article:

“The colleague’s intent in a graduate-level, academic tech writing class...”

“Like many of his grad students, the complainant is his age, and already works as a tech writer.”

So several students were not “the younger"—being a grad class, it’s fair to assume they were all senior undergrads (usually 21+ years old, then, yes? So younger takes on a slightly different meaning than if we were discussing fresh-out-of-high-school frosh) and grad students, many nearly the teacher’s own age; the input of these ‘older’ folks nevertheless figured into the evals, so apparently even the older ones were cool with this. It would seem the only person with a problem—at least the only one who vocalized one—was the complainant described.

As for delving into sub-text, let’s look again at the complainant’s stated grievance, quoting the article:

“From the first class meeting, she’s been unwilling to question herself in this manner. She’s uninterested in engaging his ‘message.’ She pronounces the first assignment “a waste of time.” She simply wants to be told what she needs to ‘know’ in order to cough up a master’s degree and presto! get a still higher salary.

‘Withdraw me from this class, and do not charge my account.’”

Ahem. I find it doubtful that “potty mouth” (and, um, aren’t those always referred to as “adult words", and aren’t these adults—every one of them—in the class?) was really so distressful that she “chose not to ignore” it out of some haloed decency and respect for public discourse. She hated the class because it wasn’t an easy ticket, because it challenged her to THINK about her role as a writer and engage in metacognitive work rather than simply pass her on toward bigger bucks in her job. Without any demonstrable flaws in the content or in the pedagogical approach, she latched onto his delivery—the “potty mouth"—as the basis for attacking him.

Did he deserve to be sacked over the relationship? Perhaps. But if that’s the real reason, I sure wish they would grow a pair and say so. Sacking someone over “potty mouth” is absurd, particularly when that someone is otherwise a credit to the profession. Swears aren’t that impressive, no, but that judgment swings both ways: they shouldn’t leave a negative impression any more than a positive one—at least, if you’re a grown-up. If you happen to be 18+ but still haven’t put on your big girl panties to accept that adults will sometimes use adult language, I submit your ears are burning because you’re emotionally *not an adult yet*. Perhaps college isn’t the place for you...

Amazed, at 1:40 pm EST on December 4, 2008

Didn’t miss the point — ignored the facts — sorry

Sorry, had the comment window up blocking the text while I was happily typing, swept away by an inaccurate memory of the story that tied in so nicely with what I was writing. I was working from memory, i.e., without a net. Tempted, I fell.

My goodness, we are not talking about a manly “damn” here and there.

Do you seriously suggest that saying

shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckertits

-that’s a straight copy and paste from the text, ladies and gentlemen, which I assumed the man said in the classroom, but maybe it’s just a riff borrowed from George Carlin and I failed to catch the literary allusion—

in the classroom is appropriate, regardless of the size of the hearer’s undergarments?

Maybe if the gentleman had had his big boy spidey man pants on he could have behaved better and still managed to teach.

I enjoyed the story tremendously but I thought the author of the memoir made a sort of cheap association at the end that sounded very ironic (you can do things to your students that you can’t say to your students) but simply doesn’t work when you think about the story from other angles — the administrations’ point of view — and consider what might have really been going on.

This tale occurred in 1998. Today, the university probably has clearly stated policies and mandatory faculty training in those policies. ("You can’t date your students. There are seven words you can’t say on television and 5 you should not say in the classroom. Shit and piss are okay, they’re Shakespeare. Sign this stating that you have read and understood university policies.") So when the student complaint comes up, the university determines the faculty violated the policies, “he knew the policies — see here’s his signature —, sorry Miss, we told him not to do this, it’s not our fault, we have a complete program training faculty in how not to harass people” and the lock on his office door is changed the next morning and no one will return his calls.

Likewise, policies on “taboo words” — handling the situation much easier — we told you not to say this and now you have said this and it is more in sadness than in anger, etc., etc., None of this time-wasting head-banging debate on what’s appropriate in adult life, this is my style, I can say bad words if I want to, I’m the teacher...

Perhaps one does not need a pair when one has a policy and excellent documentation.

Azure, at 3:50 pm EST on December 4, 2008

False dilemma

You asked, Azure, whether it was “appropriate” to utter the Carlin reference in the classroom.

First off, this really looks to me like you’re presenting a false dilemma: you’re implying that utterances are either/or, appropriate or inappropriate, all the time, no matter the circumstance or context, your concession to lit notwithstanding. I frankly think this excerpt is inscrutable for the context the instructor and students were actually operating in—we just don’t know enough about it to judge. What’s disheartening to me is how quickly many like yourself jump to the conclusion that swears have (almost) no place whatsoever in public discourse among adults (I don’t care if it’s a corporate or an academic environment—even “vulgarities” have their place).

FWIW, yes, I take it that it was merely the author alluding to Carlin, not quoting what the instructor literally said—the complaint, you’ll note, as described centered around F—-, nothing else, and no, I don’t think F—- is always inappropriate. Even so, Carlin’s utterance in the context of his onstage performance was *instructive*, provided you understood his purpose in uttering them, that it’s a commentary on censorship in public spaces and that censorship in any form is always bringing us one (albeit very small) step closer to conditioning thought. He was not, as I read it, merely trying to get a rise out of his audience; if you think he was, I imagine you either didn’t pay attention to Carlin’s performance, much too shocked by the swears themselves, or you watched it and had the same reaction most people have to watching Andrew Dice Clay, who DOES utter swears merely to get a rise.

Same utterances, different context, different purposes. Get the picture?

Amazed, at 4:30 pm EST on December 4, 2008

The Clue Phone is Ringing

Azure seems to be one of those people who likes to read things without even trying to comprehend them.

Some points of clarity:

1- The professor Fleisher was discussing did nothing wrong other than use curse words. This is neither a crime nor is it a violation of any law, code, or guideline. Having not been there to hear every single utterance, this third-hand account of the complaint might be from a single utterance of “damn,” which can be taken as vile speech by any slack-jawed hypocrite who wants revenge for a bad grade. This is a college classroom [heck, grad school in the example’s case!]; if the students in the room can’t handle the occasional swear-word, they need to join a secluded religious commune and flee the harsh, cruel, profanity-laden world behind.

2- The professor Fleisher discussed was involved in a CONSENSUAL relationship with a student. Note the italics used for effect in the original article DRAWING ATTENTION TO THAT OUTCOME. Whatever high-horse you or I may be on with regard to professor-student intimate relations, if the school did not have a policy forbidding it, HE DID NOTHING WRONG. The student was potentially attempting post-relationship blackmail. The fact remains that the relationship was by MUTUALLY CONSENTING ADULTS.

3- Azure seems to miss the point that authors who are quoting (even fictionally) the words of someone else will use those handy little devices called QUOTATION MARKS. At no point in the excerpt did Fleisher quote her former colleague’s cursing in class; we *do* get a glimpse at what he claims to have said to the dean. Those particular curse-words appeared apt in context.

This was a story about professional sabotage.

The story is also appropriate nowadays because it has all the trappings so common in recent:

Hints of abuse of power.

Administrative ignorance of proper grievance procedure.

Overly empowered students bent on revenge for imagined crimes.

Article-readers who misread meaning to satisfy their own psychological dramas, or perhaps illustrating functional illiteracy.

So many issues...

Maroon, at 9:35 pm EST on December 4, 2008

Sheltered and shocked

Ah, if I set up two windows I can go back and forth between my comment and the text. Now I have a net.

Amazed said:

“As for delving into sub-text, let’s look again at the complainant’s stated grievance, quoting the article:

‘From the first class meeting, she’s been unwilling to question herself in this manner. She’s uninterested in engaging his ‘message.’ She pronounces the first assignment “a waste of time.” She simply wants to be told what she needs to ‘know’ in order to cough up a master’s degree and presto! get a still higher salary.

Gee, I didn’t read that as the gospel truth, I thought it was what the protagonist heard from her friend who destabilized the “bright and precocious” coed. I didn’t catch any indication that she thought it accurate until her conclusion, in which she stated the irony of what you can do to students but not say to them, which frankly, as I have stated above, appears to me to be seductively symmetric but essentially a mis-fire.

And “delving into sub-text"? “delving” into something so shallow you’d need a credit card rather than a spade to uncover it.

Then Amazed states:"Ahem. I find it doubtful that “potty mouth” (and, um, aren’t those always referred to as “adult words", and aren’t these adults—every one of them—in the class?)”

Azure: Is that “adult words” or “adult” words? No, these aren’t always referred to as adult words,there are a number of other terms for them.

Amazed: ‘If you happen to be 18+ but still haven’t put on your big girl panties to accept that adults will sometimes use adult language, I submit your ears are burning because you’re emotionally *not an adult yet*.

Azure: I accept a lot of things, among them death, taxes, and that the first rule of tech support should be but is not “honor thy user.” I also accept that there are a lot of crazy confused people around, life is not fair, and that people shoot, stab, slap and run each other over over the damnedest things, real and imagined. You really should get out more, and move among us common functionally illiterate folk, who know these words as modes of communication not as pseudointellectual posturing. There really are people who find offensive words offensive, because they ARE— this is actually their intent — as an intensifier, the turbo charger. We use them all the time with feeling and meaning and don’t use them in front of people we don’t know or who would find them offensive— unless we want to offend someone. George Carlin rattled them off as nonsense syllables — fine. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

WAit, wait...there’s a vision...it’s coming in... clearer...1974...an English professor puts his foot up on a desk in the front of a college class and rock his pelvis back and forth as he discusses the drunk who said “cunt” in front of the female chair in a bar at a conference and how she and every “gal” at the table clapped their knees together at the word — that was a real thigh-slapper. And there he stood, just laughing and chuckling and having a real warm moment with himself about how these silly women were offended by the word...that wasn’t you was it? You’re not an ancient ex-air Force officer teaching a bunch of commuter students at a state university? Imagine my relief...the whole purpose of that story was to use a word likely to offend others, others that he felt more powerful than and superior to. Truly the behavior of a confident and well-adjusted man...it is disingenous to insist that there is never any intent to offend when these words are used in the lecture hall...

As to there being no guide/ code/law:: Wrong-o. Take your next traffic ticket to court and work the CArlin 7 into your presentation and find a new home in a gray place. Stand on a street corner and shout the carlin 7 for 3 hours and let us know how it turns out.

Have you ever heard the term “fighting words"? Say “fuck you” to a guy you don’t know on the street and then try to bring charges when he lays you low— good luck.

Now I am as you have said sheltered and delicate, (how could you tell? so sensitive) but usually when I speak to a room of students I want them to hear what I am saying, not the language I am saying it with. Nor do I want them to turn me off and start texting each other about what a potty mouth I have.

One of the many intriguing things about this conversation, besides the time-suck it is turning into, is how richly and wilfully speakers of the same language can misunderstand each other with the words right there visible to be checked. Also, the assumptions that are made about people’s thoughts, backgrounds and experience based on thoughts tossed onto the web.

There was nothing in the story that supports the claim that the words were used as quotes. The man was teaching technical writing, at the oily hinge of the corporate world and higher education, not Henry Miller. I have yet to find one of the Carlin 7 on the microsoft help page.

Thanks for the entertainment. I’m out of here.

azure, at 11:05 pm EST on December 4, 2008

So Proud!

Kass is one of the best teachers I have ever had. I am so proud of her! Thanks for an amazing semester, you really opened my eyes!

student, at 6:50 pm EST on December 5, 2008

At least he didn’t say “merry Christmas” in December!

PJ, at 11:10 am EST on December 7, 2008

Considerations

Administrations operate in perpetual CYA mode. They tend to overract to perceived threats, valid or not, which they apparently did in this case. The adult student clearly appreciated this and used it to her advantage. Consequently, arguments on rational grounds regarding admin behavior don’t apply. Fear and primary thoughts of self-preservation rule the day.

The “charges” are extremely vague and general. There is one instance quoted, out of context. And apparently no effort was made to interview other students — who voted with their evaluations — on the subject. One is left to infer that there was no problem, merely an excuse for the retribution which followed. ("Oh good. A complaint. We can get him with this.”

The teacher in question had other students, and other classes, and the “issue” had never arisen, nor did it in this particular class except for the one “I want out and I am using this as an bludgeon.” female student. Clearly it was blown out of all proportion, as it has been by some in the comments. “Fuck” is a word in common usage these days from about age 12 up. Pay attention.

The administration violated its own rules of conduct. As usual, little recourse exists because the same people who make the rules often feel justified in breaking them — and they are the very same people to whom one would go with a complaint about failure to comply. The situation is analogous to a citizen of the Soviet Union complaining to Stalin about the behavior of the Politbureau. Good luck with that.

And finally (yes, yes, wrapping up now), it is an unfortunate fact that teachers (and others) are always potentially at risk from accusations of inappropriate behavior. Institutional responses should include a presumption of innocent until proven guilty. That’s rarely the case, though, and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the innate cowardness and absence of character in those who should first be interested in facts and fair play — but aren’t.

/endrant

VegasGuy, at 11:55 am EST on December 7, 2008

Amazing to learn that college teachers use curse words as part of their instruction. Even more amazing that they feel justified in doing so. And even more amazing that their students (other than the complaintant) apparently think it’s OK. No wonder the education establishment has lost the respect of many Americans. At least it has for this American and I suspect many others — especially when I read garbage like this. What are you idiots thinking?

Rex, at 12:55 pm EST on December 7, 2008

Look, I have *some* sympathy for him, especially over the lack of due process he’s receiving. And I suspect that the complaining studnet may have been a “player.” And the committee deassignment is a rotten deal. This mysterious other prof should have stepped up long ago to indicated his or her interested in being on the committee.

BUT. He shouldn’t have engaged in a teacher-student relationship. Period. I don’t care how “different” this case was because all the cases are “different” (especially, as he found out, the ones that go south in more ways than one). I don’t understand why people go to such lengths to rationalize them. What this professor Kass describes got was a gift. And he should have been on clear notice that this was the only one he would ever get. Even if the charge was dropped, he was a marked man. He should have kept his nose clean....

... And sho’ nuff, he didn’t! We then got a taste of episode whoop-dee-frickin-deux (see I can munch my potty mouth now that I’ve grown up). More still, Tech Com us supposed to be.. well... boring. No offense to Tech Com profs especially the interesting ones (you know, like ours), but requires considerably more sobriety than a creative writing class. I have no problem with benign randiness or non-blue clever innuendo in the classroom to spice things up a little. But cussing should be limited to you office when the doors closed on a weekend (just make sure your the only one in the building). And your pants should always be on in the presence of a student. Both should especially be the case when teaching students who have already been in the mainstream. The last thing I suspect many of them want is to go from a disciplined professional environment to a place that would make a daycare center look like a HR person’s wet dream. Unfortunately that’s sounds like the department that Fleisher is describing. Our department would never have put up with that crap. And with that, my sympathy for his due process violations dissolves.

Bill, at 12:55 pm EST on December 7, 2008

So now I’m curious: was the complaining student punished for uttering the ultimate academic obscenity to the Department Chair, the demand that her tuition be refunded?

Or did it simply pass over his head, uncomprehended because unthinkable?

John K. Lunde, at 2:50 pm EST on December 7, 2008

Gee, this is fun. I’ll just drink another cup of coffee and keep reading the rest of the afternoon. Since I am an academic and have nothing better to do during finals, I’ll just do this. Ah, let me see. I lost my train of thought: now I’ve got it. Two clues — the piece is written by someone in creative writing, and we all know what that means. THIS IS FICTION FOLKS!!! So read appropriately. Also, one of the characters teaching tech comm. In tech comm, one of the main messages is to pay attention to audience and what the audience my need, tolerate, understand, etc. The lecturer in this case clearly doesn’t understand his own course. If he is swearing in class, he’s missing HIS audience responsibilities. Also, since all of this is fiction — read it as fiction. Look for the unreliable narrators, the crazy personas, etc.

Anyway, this is fun. I like the comment string too. Some of us just have too much time on our hands and don’t understand the real world.

Now, back to that coffe, finals, and occasional mind diversions like this when I don’t want to read those last student papers.

(Do any of the rest of you wonder too why this piece got published in the first place? What were the editors thinking, unless they just wanted to see what all of us crazies would do with this piece.)

Slurp! I drink mine only black.

the old guy who likes coffee, at 3:15 pm EST on December 9, 2008