Archives for Mama PhD

August 2008

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A welcome addition!

I’ve been reading Bitch, PhD for a while now (and recommending it to everyone I know!). I’m so glad to see you here, too!

MBGITH, at 8:50 am EDT on August 4, 2008

welcome!

I’m delighted you’re blogging for us, Tedra; welcome aboard!

Caroline, Co-editor, Mama, PhD at independent, at 10:20 am EDT on August 4, 2008

Can you talk a bit about balancing the demands of grad school/academia with depression? I finished my BA a year ago and have been working as a program/research assistant at my university. I was planning on going to grad school this September, but decided to hold off because of an intense episode of anxiety and depression this year. I love what I study and I know I can do well, but I also know it can be too much. How have you dealt with it?

Brooke, at 6:00 pm EDT on August 4, 2008

academia & depression

My main advice is to get a good therapist and don’t be afraid of trying medication. Too many people put it off for too long, and it really can be a lifesaver. Once you get the medication and dosage right, which can take a while, you won’t feel medicated—you’ll just feel like yourself, only not crazy.

And because academic life can be so isolating, it’s important for everyone—but especially folks who suffer from anxiety or depression, I think—to make sure and have friends *outside* academia. It’s also helpful to have some kind of regular physical activity that gets you out of your head—biking, running, whatever.

Tedra, at 6:55 pm EDT on August 4, 2008

But the snow, it is so pretty!

Real reason for comment: the link to your CV is broken.

Nicole, University of Calgary, at 7:25 pm EDT on August 4, 2008

tenure

Tedra — (Oh, no! It’s so weird to call you Tedra, but calling you some variant of “Dr. Bitch” as per usual from your blog feels oh-so-inappropriate in this venue!) I will soon be advancing to candidacy, and the norm for our students is a demanding post-doc and then tenure track junior faculty position at a research school. If I were to adopt (probably internationally) with my partner, should I wait until after tenure? Would it be insane to do it during a post-doc? I hesitate to do it while dissertating because I will be doing ethnographic fieldwork throughout the write-up process. (And my field site is HIGHLY inappropriate for wee ones.) But I’m 30 now, so if I wait for tenure, I could be pushing 40. I’m not even completely sure I want a kid, but I feel my academic/biological clock ticking. Thoughts?

WFL, Prestigious Whitebread U, at 9:25 pm EDT on August 4, 2008

academic depression

I had a pretty bad episode of depression during the dissertation phase, at which time I was employed full-time at the same university (dumb dumb dumb). Part of was the neglect of my committee, part of it was the passive aggressiveness of the faculty toward newbies. I stayed there, and remain there, almost 5 years later.

Why? Thanks for asking; I’ve wondered this, too. I think it’s because here I can look the two beasts (depression and the hostile academic environment) in the eye. I can recognize these animals from a mile away; I have fought them before.

I’ve got recurrent major depression; it would come back regardless. And, anyway, tomorrow’s another day. (Isn’t it, Rhett?)

Teresa, assist prof at Or Health & Sci Univ, at 4:55 am EDT on August 5, 2008

baby timing

I’m forty, so there’s obviously not much time to waste. If I want to get pregnant, better to do it while I finish my dissertation, or next year, when I start a TT job (already lined up)? The diss must be finished by May ‘09 to allow me to start the job — which I really, really want as it is a nearly perfect fit in my favorite city in the world.

elizabeth, at 5:00 am EDT on August 5, 2008

aw crud

Sorry about that c.v. link—that’s what happens when you update. You can find it here.

Re. the tenure/baby/postdoc question, my short answer is: I don’t know about post-docs! But I had a girlfriend who had her first kid during hers, and she later got a very, very nice job indeed and had two more children. So obviously it’s doable. Though otoh, if you’re planning to adopt anyway, I can certainly see why you’d wait. But on yet a third hand, really, my take on all this stuff boils down to: you have a life. Live it. You can’t plan and control everything, and trying to might just make you crazy. So if you want a baby during the post-doc, well then, have one. Or get one. Whichever.

Tedra, at 5:00 am EDT on August 5, 2008

baby timing

Elizabeth, read my piece in Mama, PhD!

The short answer is that I, personally, highly recommend having a baby while dissertating, especially if your partner has a job that pays decently. Your time is a *lot* more flexible than after you get that first job, and you really can’t write more than a few hours a day anyway.

Tedra, at 1:40 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

Hi, glad to see you over here! I was going to post something irritating, but then I realized I actually need some advice.

I’d like to take some sort of writing class — preferably at the Cal State campus across the street — but it’s not obvious what sort. My vague goal is to write some sort of cultural journalism. I’m attracted to the upper-division English classes, but the schedules are awkward, since I work full-time, and what I need isn’t now primarily practice in thinking about literature, but practice in writing substantial argumentative pieces. Outside the university, there’s l’embarras du choix — endless writing groups and whatnot. What am I looking for?

Vance Maverick, at 2:30 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

EXISTENTIALLY DISTRACTED

Here’s what I need help with. I’m a junior, tenure-track professor at a fancy research university. I had a baby 9 months ago. Since then I have done nothing other than show up and teach the bare minimum at my job. This summer, I thought I would dive back into researching and writing the book I’m working on. But instead I found myself not wanting to take my son to daycare and not being able to concentrate at all when he was there. I’m worried that I’ll never concentrate again and that motherhood is revealing that I don’t really want my job anyway. I’ve been ambivalent about academia since grad school. But I can’t not have a job, financially. On the other hand, if I don’t start doing some work I’m not going to get to keep it. . .

Malarkey, at 2:50 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

hostile work enviro?

This is actually a question for Theresa. Would you be willing to share what part of OHSU you’re at? As it is a place I’m considering returning to after a post-doc, I’d like to know...

marachne, doctoral candidate at Oregon Health & Science U, at 3:25 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

Tedra, I am a big fan of yours. I read your blog on a daily basis. I have several questions that I would like to ask you. I am so glad that you can be open about your depression. I suffered from major depression in my senior year of undergrad. It was very difficult for me to share those feelings with anyone. I kept it all to myself. I did eventually visit the counseling center at school and that helped me a lot. I am about to start Graduate school and am very excited, but in the back of my head I am afraid that I will slip and fall again into depression. I took SSRI’s for a while but stopped taking them recently. (Based on how I felt and upon doctor’s approval.) My question is, do you ever have the same “uneasiness” in the back of your head. And if so, how do you deal with it? As I mentioned, I am just now entering grad school. I am pursuing an MA in English. I am going to a state university, but my hope is to get into an ivy-league for my PhD. I know that most prestigious programs have only a PhD track, with students starting right out of undergrad. What are your thoughts about getting accepted into these universities with a MA degree. Do you think that it will affect my application in any way? What are most PhD programs looking for in a candidate? Is there anything that I can do now to increase my chances of being accepted to an outstanding university?Thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask you questions about academia.

Rachel, at 3:50 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

My real question is one you probably can’t answer, which is, should I get a Ph.D. (probably in political science)? But maybe you could talk about what you think are good uses for a Ph.D. — especially uses that don’t involve becoming a tenured professor at an R1 institution — and whether they’re worth it. Especially considering the other kinds of experience and work a person could have during those 6-8 years.

(For whatever it’s worth, I graduated about 5 years ago and the other options I’m thinking of mostly involve trying to get jobs making non-profits work better. I love and miss writing, I miss study, I want real research tools in my head, and I also have some serious reservations about the culture and demands of academia.)

North, at 5:20 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

Thanks for your response. I am one of those people who has put off medication, but everything is pointing toward that changing. Doing something to get out of my head would be good too, especially in the winter. The snow is pretty, but I’m one university north of Nicole and winters are so freaking dark here! I am enjoying summer while I can.

brooke, at 9:40 pm EDT on August 5, 2008

Welcome Back to the Salt Mines

Prof O: Glad to see you decided to “go back to school.” Perhaps you’d guest-lecture on comp down in Westwood from time-to-time? My students certainly could use it.

I’d be interested to read in the column how you’re managing with the adjunct life. On balance, and contra the nightmare stories in _The Adjunct Advocate_, I’ve had more good than bad, though my latest gig isn’t all it could be.

Regards to Mr. Prof O,

Prof B

Prof Burgos, Steady Part-timer at UCLA, at 7:45 am EDT on August 6, 2008

Tedra, glad to see you’re heading back to teaching — you’re stellar in the classroom, and considering the kinds of stuff my students hand in on a regular basis, yours will certainly benefit from your writing advice.

To everyone else — she actually is right about the therapist, and in my case, the drugs. Even if you feel awesome when you START a grad program, it’s a completely different animal when you get into it, and it’s not as easy as going to class, then writing comps, then writing a dissertation. It’s a tough gig, and even if you love it and wouldn’t want to be doing anything else, you’re going to have long, often difficult periods when a little support and someone not in your (largely academic) social circle to vent to is a god-send.

AM, at 4:40 pm EDT on August 6, 2008

Going back to school

After a first pregnant year of graduate studies and a summer full of newborn baby bliss I am now returning for a second year. How do I sweep the baby cobwebs from my diaper addled brain? What did you do to get back in the game ?I know I was intelligent as recently as last May and am hopeful I can be once more. Any advice?

newzommy, Rising out of the Fog, at 12:40 pm EDT on August 7, 2008

@ Marachne

We’re in the same discipline. You know — the caring, kind one.

Teresa, assistant prof at Oregon Health & Science University, at 4:30 pm EDT on August 7, 2008

Whoa, whoa, one at a time!

I guess I’ve got questions enough for the rest of the semester, huh? Some of these I’ll address in future columns at more length, but just to satisfy the clamoring fan base, some quickies:

Vance, you want a non-fiction writing course if you can find/get one. UCLA, at least, has them online from time to time; I don’t know where you live, obviously, but that’s what you’re looking for.

Malarky, babies grow up and adults’ goals change. Just showing up and teaching isn’t a great symptom early in one’s career, but then again, everyone has summers where their grand goals fall apart. Give it another year, at least. And you know, there *are* jobs where teaching is the primary responsibility, so if you still like teaching that’s an actual possibility.

Rachel, I did a terminal MA before my PhD program. I don’t know from Ivy Leagues specifically, but all graduate programs want to see a specific, focused, intelligent research plan from prospective graduate students. You know the drill: get in touch with someone at the school you’re eyeballing as you work on your PhD, and start a correspondence about your research. The more pre-professional you are when you apply, the better your chances.

Prof. Burgos, thank you! I thought about you the other day—the Democratic booth at the fair was doing a brisk business, but the Gallegly one was delightfully free of interested inquiries.

Newzmommie, define your “work hours” (and for god’s sake, define them reasonably, i.e., not “all my waking moments"). And when you’re not working, enjoy being a mommy. Graduate studies are much improved by refreshing angst-free breaks doing things other than watching television and feeling guilty. Oh, and keep a notebook or voice recorder in your pocket so that if something occurs to you while you’re making diner you can jot it down real quick.

Tedra, at 8:55 pm EDT on August 8, 2008

oh, and

North, non-profits love people who can research, write and think. But they pay not so great. If that’s okay with you, go for it.

Tedra, at 9:00 pm EDT on August 8, 2008

Mothering at Mid-Career: Peach Season (Aug. 5) (3 comments)

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role models

For what it’s worth, my kids have both been heard to say things like “mommies can’t be doctors"—even though their pediatrician is both—and to suggest in other ways that women don’t/can’t work full time even though I have always done so. The culture is powerful, even when you present a counter-model. Talk is good; eventually they get it!

Libby, Mama, PhD contributor, at 7:45 am EDT on August 6, 2008

I am always grateful to be part of what is really the first generation to have such fantastic options — I have a great education, advanced degrees, several interesting and important job experiences AND now I have the opportunity, after 7+ years at home with my little ones when they were little, to work a fulfilling part-time, flex-schedule job in my profession. My mother couldn’t have dreamed of the options I enjoy, and I am trying hard to ensure I don’t take them for granted — nor will my daughter when she, hopefully, will have them.

C, at 2:45 pm EDT on August 6, 2008

I work two jobs (my full-time job as an educational administrator and adjunct lecturing in the evenings) while going for my PhD part time in the evenings. Daddy gets the kids ready, gets them on and off the bus, works when they are in school and on the weekends (when I’m home with them). The other day I overheard my 7-year-old daughter that “daddies work, mommies don’t.” I was stunned, but laughed hysterically, then had a similar talk about women having choices. I have a number of SAHM friends (some of whom babysit for us)...maybe that’s where she got it. But my 11-year-old DEFINITELY “gets” it...she says she would like to stay home with her kids after she finishes college {yes!!}

knezmom, at 7:45 am EDT on August 7, 2008

Daddy is King

Despite the fact that I am working full-time and my husband is working part-time (an arrangement ww both prefer at the moment). I’ve been informed by both my young children that “Dads work a lot, but moms don’t work very much” and that “Dads earn the money.” After trying to decide whether I should be more annoyed with my husband or children for letting this stereotype develop, I decided I should vent at the TV instead—that’s where this nifty model of gender equality is still so typical, I fear.

Megan, at 12:30 pm EDT on August 8, 2008

Math Mom: Hit the Road (Aug. 6) (2 comments)

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I worry about these new opportunities for undergrads.

Myself, coming from a more working class background, wasn’t encourage (or informed) about the importance of doing research assistantship as an undergrad. I knew a few people enrolled in the “undergrad research opportunity program,” but I didn’t know why they were there.

Now, as a grad student, I encourage undergrad students who show an interest in going beyond undergrad to take RAships, get in on research projects, and YES, go to these undergrad conferences and summer programs. I possibly take a stronger role in this than many others because no one ever encouraged me.

They’ll have an edge when they apply for grad school, certainly.

But are we widening the gap further between those students with a leg up (understanding what grad school is and the steps to take to get there more easily) and those without?

For example, one can imagine that for some students, living at home and working all summer takes priority over going to a summer conference or stats course, even if they do get funding for it.

Katy, at 5:10 am EDT on August 7, 2008

Opportunities for Undergrads

Katy,You raise a valid point. At the University of Richmond, and the sister schools in our NSF grant, the students are paid to do research for 10 weeks of the summer. The pay is roughly equivalent to what they would make in a summer job. Their travel to the conference at the end of the summer is fully paid. They do have to pay their living expenses if they don’t live in the area. We have supported students with very modest backgrounds.

My concern is that the students will take these opportunities for granted. Pay for research and pay for travel in academics is not always a given.

Della Fenster, at 11:25 am EDT on August 7, 2008

Drama Mama: Almost Home (Aug. 7) (7 comments)

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Potty training seems like more negotiation than the other things on your list. The rest have general processes to follow to reach the goal. Therefore it is a more difficult goal to reach in a set time period. (Of course, I do not yet have kids so I’m guessing...)

Good luck negotiating with a toddler :).

NJS, at 5:25 am EDT on August 8, 2008

yes, yes, and yes

I hear you! This is why we need to move the whole country to 30 hour work weeks (since the 50’s housewife isn’t home to take care of things for us) or all hire personal assistants, maids, and professional organizers. Oh wait, then we would have to coordinate and supervise all of them! When did life get so complicated! I think one of my biggest struggles is learning to re-adjust expectations. What can I reasonably accomplish.

BTW, any chance of creating a Mama PhD forum or discussion board instead of just a blog?

I feel like there is potential to build community but that a blog is not right means to accomplish that goal.

Physiology Mama PhD, at 9:30 am EDT on August 8, 2008

I could have written your post!

Well, except for the relaxing on the beach part. I never made it to the beach. In the last year I finished my dissertation, went on the mob market, got a job, bought a house, moved to a new state, presented two papers at a major conference, and submitted an article (written years ago but not revised until then) for publication, but I’m still obsessing over the mental list of things that I didn’t do. I didn’t potty train (some progress this week, so maybe I can make my last week left count), I didn’t finish that article that I worked so hard to network, I haven’t finished my syllabi for the courses I’m about to start teaching, I haven’t finished unpacking and organizing, and I’m still looking for a daycare.

Isn’t it easy to dwell on the things that we don’t do rather than enjoy the things that we do accomplish? Thank you for your post. In taking stock of your accomplishments (and yes, I view them as such), I was able to step back and take stock of my own and cut myself a little bit of slack. We’re really doing OK. And even if we just get to the immediate concern, at least we’re keeping our heads above water while raising a toddler and having a job! Maybe that’s good enough for now. My perfectionistic, overachieving brain certainly doesn’t think so, but maybe the rest of me needs to take that part over for now for my own sanity.

English Mama PhD, Assistant Professor, at 10:20 am EDT on August 8, 2008

Thank you so much for your comments Physiology Mama PhD and English Mama PhD! So nice to hear common concerns and voices. I completely agree on the forum — I will speak to the Mama PhD higher ups and see what we can do. Having as many voices as possible to build a community seems the best way to go!

anjalee, Thanks and Yes!, at 10:40 am EDT on August 8, 2008

Summer lists

I loved this post!

I used to make lists like this every summer and end up accomplishing about 50%. After watching me get depressed and anxious every August, my husband offered me some sane advice: “Why don’t you try to write a list of the fewest things you could get done and still feel ok about the summer?”

Now, instead of using the summer as a dumping ground for every fantasy about how my life could be (if I worked out every day, ate nothing but fruits and veggies, finished that book, redesigned by office and all of my courses, discovered the secret of life...), I treat it as a continuation of my normal life.

Now, if only I can keep this sane approach during my sabbatical!

Aeron, at 4:05 pm EDT on August 8, 2008

My summer is much the same too, and I too am relieved and heartened to read others who feel like I do! We Moved to a new town (closer to work, the commute had to go!) and I moved my office to a new building, and well, other than the immediate stuff that had to get done (I am on the IRB), I didn’t touch my work list. Syllabi are untouched, office is unpacked; though most of the house is now in order. I had to do that first, because whatever doesn’t get done before classes start won’t get done until next summer. So next summer, maybe I’ll write those papers, redesign those classes, and such? I guess I should be happy that it only took my toddler a month to adjust to the new house (she is now calling home, home, rather than calling day care home!).

Thanks everyone, for the reality check.

Psych Mama PhD, at 8:55 pm EDT on August 8, 2008

Bird by bird, indeed

I loved this post, too! I’m forever making lists like this, getting discouraged, and then being grateful when someone, like your friend, can show me the alternate list of things I have accomplished. Congratulations on all you’ve done this summer, and good luck settling into the new house/school/routine!

Caroline, Co-editor, Mama, PhD at independent, at 5:05 am EDT on August 12, 2008

The Career Coach Is In: Whether to Apply to Grad School (Aug. 11) (4 comments)

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Great advice above!

As a current pregnant PhD student, I’ll also throw out there a few comments. The idea of “free time” and PhD, as has been described, means more flexibility but NOT MORE TIME. A normal schedule for me as a PhD student taking courses would be a 8-5 and 6-10 schedule DAILY — that includes weekends. I am only able to have this kid because I am done with my coursework. There is still a lot of pressure to keep on writing, reading, etc.

Also, check out the book “Getting What You Came For” to get a sense of what a PhD program is really like. It doesn’t sound like you’re entirely familiar with how funding works and how TA/RAships and fellowships work. This means that you have more obligations than just going to class.

And, as to the 2nd point — why do you need a PhD to do what you think that you want to do? Think about your end goal here.

And as for as time, the PhD program is going to be 5 years, maybe 6-7, especially if you take time off to have kids. How old are you going to be when you start your first professor gig? Then how old are you going to be before you get tenure? I don’t want to be too discouraging, but if you’re already close to 30, you’re going to be spending your kids’ younger years and your ‘younger-ish’ years pushing for tenure. If you plan to retire at 65ish, how many good not-going-for-tenure years does that give you?

Also, in terms of location, your husband is going for partner at a firm. Does that mean that you’re planning on staying in your current city to go to grad school? What if the research that the department at Your Local U does is of 0 interest to you? What if you can’t get into that U’s program?

And, in the future, when you’re done in 5 (6-7) years, is he going to be able to move with you to where you need to go? I’m not in poli sci, but even if the job market is decent, you’re likely to have to move to some place that might not have what your husband is looking for as far as a job. The chance that a job is going to open up Your City is pretty slim.

I’d also recommend the LiveJournal community applyingtograd — it is an excellent resource for sorting this stuff out.

Good luck! I don’t mean to sound TOO discouraging, but you have spent a lot of time and money in one career path that you could possibly work into what you’re looking to do without too much pain.

Katy, at 12:50 pm EDT on August 11, 2008

Getting a PhD

I think getting a PhD in public policy and teaching or working in a think tank is a great idea. I’d probably think so even if I weren’t teaching in a policy school right now.

I also don’t think your age is an issue as policy schools often enroll students who have worked for several or more years.

Given the flexibility of graduate school hours compared to law firm hours, you may end up with more time to spend with your kids as a PhD student even if you work the same amount of hours. A TA or RA job will add to your family income (directly and through the accompanying tuition waiver) but also to your work load. My grad students seem to do most of their grading and research assistance work at night.

One benefit of enrolling in a policy PhD program is that you could change your mind about the PhD and still end up satisfying the requirements for a MPA with two years of coursework.

I would consider the PhD program with kids as probably equally time consuming as working as an attorney without kids, with the benefit of flexible hours. As the other poster mentioned, flexible hours is just a way of saying that you get to work late nights.

Publicpolicymama, at 3:00 pm EDT on August 11, 2008

I had this exact same conversation with myself in 2004 or so. I knew I was going to apply to grad school for Fall 2006, and I decided to try for a baby before then.

Long story short, I’m starting my third year of school and I haven’t had a baby yet.

You never know if a baby will arrive just because you think it’s a good time.

Also, I second the recommendation for the applyingtograd LJ group. Even though it was populated mostly with current undergraduates, we were all going through the same things, and at that moment I had more in common with them than with someone closer to my age.

V’s Herbie, at 6:25 pm EDT on August 12, 2008

Grad School?

As someone who is preparing to take her exams in my PhD program, along with raising four children, I wanted to put my two cents in here. I agree with Tedra when she says to be careful not to consider graduate school with children the same as being a stay at home mom. Though I am definitely at home a lot more than if I had a 9-5 job, when I’m at home I also need to get work done and the tension between my two roles is always present. It is a constant balancing act and there are days when I am stressed about not spending enough time with my kids because I have so much work to do, and vice versa.

With that said, I also agree with Tedra’s “fuck it” comment. My youngest was 6 weeks old when I began my MA program and my family literally thought I was insane when I told them I was pregnant again (on purpose!) and going to graduate school. We made that choice because we had a picture of our family that included a fourth child. It worked because my husband and I were both committed to it — even though you’re the one in school you both need to really be behind this endeavor.

The question of what happens once graduate school is over is a really important one that needs to be addressed before you ever start the program. It’s one that my husband and I really didn’t think through enough before I began, and now the reality of the job market is making us realize that we have some hard decisions to make. If you don’t think there’s any way you would ever move away, think twice and then three times about going to graduate school. It’s easy to say that you live in a place where there are lots of schools and you could find a job, but the reality is that job is likely to be an adjunct or community college position. Research schools don’t like to hire tenure-track positions from their own geographic pool — that’s just the way academia works.

Finally, along with this blog go read Mama PhD the book — it’s full of essays by women who face the same choices we have and have made many different decisions. It’s a wonderful read and a very accurate account of the way the academic world affects women who make the audacious choice to have children and pursue their studies.

Michelle, Grad TA/Instructor at Urban Campus of Research U, at 8:10 pm EDT on August 12, 2008

Mothering at Mid-Career: It's always something (Aug. 11)

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ABCs and PhDs: Blog Soup (Aug. 13) (1 comments)