phoenix
Much of traditional academe doesn't know what to make of for-profit higher education. Is it to be emulated or feared? Gary A. Berg, dean of extended education at California State University Channel Islands, studied the sector -- and received extensive access to University of Phoenix administrators and faculty members. The result is Lessons From the Edge: For-Profit and Nontraditional Higher Education in America, recently published as part of the American Council on Education/Praeger Series on Higher Education.
The following are Berg's answers to some questions about his research and his book:
Q: To prepare for this book, you taught a course at Phoenix. How did the experience differ from courses you have taught at more traditional institutions?
A: It was a vastly different experience, from beginning to end. First, the University of Phoenix requires all to participate in a very lengthy and in-depth training program where candidates are introduced to the background of the organization and its teaching-learning model. This is followed by working very closely under the guidance of a mentor in the first actual course. The University of Phoenix, much like other open access institutions such as the British Open University, relies to a large extent on standardized course materials. Faculty members are mainly responsible for facilitating discussions and giving feedback on student work.
Recently, the University of Phoenix has moved from requiring a faculty-created weekly lecture in the online courses, to supplying this as well. However, what a tenured faculty member from a traditional university would notice most is their lessened influence. University officials claim that the faculty at the University of Phoenix is more empowered than part-timers typically found at traditional institutions. There is some evidence of this. Certainly, I found that the university regularly asks for faculty involvement in ongoing training, faculty meetings, and to provide comment on curricular issues. Additionally, there are some full-time faculty members who take on chair-type roles at the University of Phoenix.
However, there is nothing like a faculty senate. Faculty members at the University of Phoenix are completely and very intentionally left out of operational decisions. Its leadership describes this as separating academic from operational decision-making so that the organization is more professionally managed and productive.
Q: You make a number of references to the culture at Phoenix. Can you describe the culture and its relationship to Phoenix's growth?
A: The culture at the University of Phoenix is an interesting mix of corporate and counter-culture elements. This surprised me, and I suspect others will also find this interesting. Those attributes of a business that one would expect such as discussions about market, educational product development, and students as customers are all there. However, many of the leaders of the organization also describe social or political motivations for their work. John Sperling, the founder, clearly comes from a background of political activism.
The other part of the culture of the University of Phoenix to note is that the leadership is collectively very driven and combative. They like seeing themselves as rebels against the higher education establishment. All of these characteristics of its culture have led to the growth at the University of Phoenix. The corporate approach has spurred them to move quickly, focus on core competencies, and operate efficiently. The combative attitude is behind both seeking to fill gaps in the higher education market, and using unconventional methods to do so.
Q: You specifically talk about the willingness at Phoenix to debate any idea. How does that compare to what you see elsewhere in academe?
A: The leaders appear unusually willing to reconsider bedrock beliefs and practices in higher education. For instance, they have openly challenged the importance of "seat time," or direct contact with a faculty member in a classroom. Instead the University of Phoenix has argued the importance of clearly articulating learning objectives and then measuring success against those standards. In this regard, it has benefited from the general movement toward assessment in American higher education.
Another example is its challenge of tenure. Historically, the number of full-time tenure-track faculty members at an institution has been a key indicator of quality. The University of Phoenix and other for-profits argue for a practitioner model claiming that part-time faculty usage can actually lead to higher quality in particular disciplines such as business where real world experience rather than research is especially valuable to students. The leaders seem to have these essential debates and discussions constantly whether it is about seat time, tenure, or the future of the textbook in higher education.
Q: Phoenix recently announced that it would begin to offer programs for traditional-age undergraduates. Should the rest of higher education be worried?
A: For the most part, no. However, third tier non-residential teaching institutions are likely to see increased competition. My guess is that the University of Phoenix must have noticed a large market opportunity to make such a major change in its policy, perhaps for students in the military and in their greatly expanding international market. Broadening its market represents a big change for the University of Phoenix, because one of its strengths has always been exploiting a niche market of first generation college and working adult students. Additionally, its pedagogical approach relies to a great extent on prior work and life experience -- serving younger students complicates this effort.
Q: What do you consider Phoenix's main failings or areas of weakness?
A: Its weaknesses are a poor academic reputation, faculty, general education, and maintaining quality while growing at a fast rate. Although scholars in the field of higher education are increasingly pointing to some of the positive things the institution does, the criticism from traditional institutions of the University of Phoenix is relentless.
Unlike Research I or even regional comprehensive universities, the University of Phoenix is unlikely to have "star" faculty members. Mostly it utilizes many of the part-time faculty members that teach at other institutions, to supplement practitioners from industry. Since it uses a practitioner approach to faculty it naturally has trouble with general education courses required for undergraduate degrees.
Finally, the extreme growth occurring at the University of Phoenix over the past decade, and the projected target of half a million students in the near future, have brought forth management problems that it is very consciously wrestling with as an organization.
Failings? Despite its design and effort, the institution still ends up failing some students who are ill-prepared or whose personal and/or social barriers are too great to overcome. However, I would point out that this student retention failing is not unique to the University of Phoenix, and given its target population, understandable.
Q: You work at a new public university. Do you think your job and institution are different because of the growth of for-profit higher education?
A: I would describe the institution I work at, the newest California State University, as traditional. However, because of the new environment for public universities in the United States characterized by limited resources, we are acting a little differently.
Generally, much of what the University of Phoenix and the other for-profits do is not unique. Often through extended education or continuing education units, universities have tried to meet the specific needs of adult learners, work with businesses, use distance learning technologies, and operate somewhat entrepreneurial.
How have for-profit higher education changed traditional universities? I think they have probably accelerated a general trend, rather than changed the course in American higher education at this point. Central components of the for-profit model such as increased use of part-time faculty, intensive formats, standardization, distributed and distance learning formats, an emphasis on assessment are all increasingly used in traditional universities. For-profits have come to symbolize the great transformation that is occurring in higher education, but are not the sole cause.
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Comments on Is Phoenix the Future?
I have two classes left and so far UOP has been alright for me. Just like any other online college you get what you put into it. For myself, I decided not to purchase the books and get by as much as I could. For those classes with the resource fee, I paid it because I had to and use the ebook when needed. UOP does require more work then any other traditional college I have been to does. The colleges I have been to, I just had to pass the final and maybe turn in a paper or two during the semester. At UOP I am required to respond to the subject twice a week.
I am in my third year at UOP and I have one more year at which time I will have a Masters in Business Administration with concentration in Technology Management and Acounting. I will also take some upper level accounting cources to be eligible to take the CPA exam in Oklahoma. I have never learned as much any where else than I have at UOP. Having instructors that work in the real world has provided an added insight to the learning experience. The work is not easy, there is a great deal of reading and you have to write a 1500 to 2000 word papers each week on the subject matter and it must follow the APA writing excellence format. The online reading material which comes with each course at no extra charge is equivalent to 8 to 10 textbooks that you would get from a traditional school. Learning teams give you the experience in working with other people on projects and to complete this on-line is far more difficult than traditional school learning teams. The school may not get the accredidation that it deserves because of the high percentage of part time faculty. However, All I need is to pass the CPA exam and I am equal to a graduate from Harvard that becomes a CPA.
I have worked with people that received degres from traditional colleges. Many of them lack the team skills and work ethics that UOP encourages. I sometimes find the team experience challenging however, I feel it strenghtens my interpersonal and problem solving skills on the job. I believe an individuals learning experience is a personal one. I have worked on teams with people that have been at UOP as long as I have (I am a sophmore) and did not gain as much knowledge as I have. UOP implements lifelong learning and encourages students to be motivated to strengthen their skills. This includes independently seeking the appropriate support in areas that individuals are weak in. It's their choice if they want to cheat themselves and waste money. I have read some UOP reviews with people complaining about incompetent classmate and graduates; Truth is there are just as many of them in the work place from other schools. UOP should not be blamed for individuals not motivated to reach their full potential.
I have found that after attending a number of traditional universities, University of Phoenix is an excellent alternative for students who have the responsibility of full time employment and family.
The work is harder. I have barely attended classes in the traditional model and still studied enough to earn an A in a class. That is not possible at UOP because you have to have meaningful participate in the class forums. This has been the hardest 16 months of my 40 years, but it will be well worth the accomplishment of finally completing the program.
I think it feels like a well-kept secret... those who complete the UOP program knows how challenging the program and the more those people come into decision-making, management positions, the more the program will garner respect.
I have been a student at the University of Phoenix for over 5 years. I am currently in it's doctoral program (preparing for my 3rd career). I believe the prejudices withn the Higher Education Community are tragic. I thank God for the Univ of Phoenix, as there are a myriad of opportunities that I would have been excluded, sadly because I am a minority and a woman.
After reading this article I was very surprised at some of the logic presented. Like any other institution of higher learning, I think UOP is very committed to producing successful adults and students-alike. The business issues and concerns that were presented above are basically not any different from what any other business' or institutions face on a daily basis. However, I do agree on the concept that UOP's quick expansion has caused some problems.. But with problems comes opportunity. As a Grad student and a working professional, I have come to like the e-learning environment and UOP itself. Yes, it can be demanding BUT UOP seem to understand the lives of its' students. The article was good and I think UOP will be able to use it to look at areas where improvement is infact needed. Good read!
I looked very long and hard for a university that filled all of my requirements for an accredited doctorate program that would fit into the life a a working adult. I searched local traditional schools, online programs, and distance learning educators. I ended up taking the safe bet and choosing the local traditional university. Now I am facing situations where my work and education schedules conflict. I face inflexibility in testing dates and the evil idea of "proctoring". Now I am re-evaluating.... Think hard before you make your choice. Online and distance learning may just be the only way for most working adults with families to get their doctorate.
I have obtained my Master's Degree in Nursing at UOP 10 years ago. My education has prepared me to do what I had wanted to do, which has been to teach. I have had a very successful career in Healthcare Education in both the private and for profit sectars. I have been teaching at top notched Unversity Programs. This all could not be possible without my education from UOP. UOP produces good nurses, leaders and community members.
I recently started teaching at UoP and although my Ph.D. is in political economics, I do have an MBA - which shows that I am all for both academics and profit. That said, University of Phoenix is a unique, well-thought out business model that does have rigor in it's teaching model (which differs from many online and for profit universities).
I may seem biased but "traditional" unjiversities are becoming complacent producing less quality students each year. At least with adults, especially in business, the experience along with the degree will separate the MBA grads who are the posterboys (&girls) for the FEDEX ad campaign - the one where the MBA says he doesnt know how to do shipping because he has an MBA....
Taj Eldridge, Ph.D. candidate
Claremont Graduate University
MBA, Pepperdine University
After reading the survey I have to say that the University of Pheonix is the best college i have ever went to. I have been to many state colleges and after going to Pheonix i noiticed a big difference in facualty caring. State colleges can care less if you fail or not. The facualty at pheonix from day one were their to help in any way. To me that was like night and day compared to state colleges. I felt more relaxed and knew in the back of my mind that if i needed help, someone would be there to make sure i understood the problem. In addition, I also have to say that the cirriculum is in many ways more demanding than state colleges. I do wish that the UOP would get the credit it really deserves.
I am a Student at UOP,I tried to do the traditional route but as a mother I cannot attend college 3 or more days a week and care for my family as well as work full time. The only complaint is the way the classes are set up I feel I should have had certain classes before another because it would better prepare me for the following course, but I would have the same issues at another traditional college.
I am a 22 year old male. I am currently in my BSIT program at UoP. I really like this school because it reaches out to different sectors of the community. In my class, we have retirees, military, contractors, and there's me, a young go-getter. I am the youngest in my class by a good 10 years. Yet I feel that I am getting more out of my education because UoP generally targets older people and normally doesn't go after young people. That's a good thing. I fit in better with an older crowd. People bring a lot of life experience to the table because of the open learning model. THAT is experience I would never get at a traditional university. I also work full-time, like my entire class does. My former peers are going full-time at college and bagging groceries at best.
I am a graduate student going for my MBA at the University of Phoenix in Minneapolis. I am only in my 3rd course, but so far am very impressed with UOP. I have studied at 4 other traditional universities and find the course work very comparable. The author points out one huge uphill battle for Phoenix and I believe that to be the stereotype of the on-line university. Not only is this format new and potential threat to traditional universities, but this type of program is not known by the public.
I don't feel I am missing anything by attending UOP and would actually say the opposite. The small classes (12 people max so far) the instructors with real world experience, and the variety of people who attend really make the courses interesting. Also, the hybrid on-line and on-campus program that I am in makes it possible for me to coninue to work full time.
I am 2 weeks away from graduation and my experience at UOP has been wonderful. It is a demanding school and I have learned so much in the online and classroom courses. Both online and classroom courses require a great deal of work in a short amount of time. I plan to get my MBA and I will return to UOP. I have attended traditional school and if I had to start all over I would select UOP to earn my undergrad degree.
I believe this was a very fair and unbiased article. I just received my MBA from Phoenix. I am very happy with the education I received. My purpose was to learn what I needed for building a business. The real life exposure allowed me to learn, apply, and retain everything presented.
I particularly loved the open class format. I was able to see others ideas and application about what we were learning together. For the first time I did not feel I was competing against my classmates, but I was learning from them. This type of format also increased gave me confidence and allowed me to see that my critical perspective was just as valuable as others. I did not feel like I had to spit out what I had learned to please the instuctor, but that I was just able to spit out what I had learned. All of this was a large increase in my critical thinking and learning. I could go on and on. However, I hope my point has been made.
University of Phoenix may be the underdog now, but that is the legacy of many great models and established practices.
I am 1 week from finishing my BSB/A degree at U of P. I work full time, have 5 kids, and have a technical degree from a brick-and-mortar school. The classes at U of P were tougher than the traditional classes by far. The classes at U of P are compressed not condensed. I have read all of my books in the classes compared to the traditional classes. I do not a teacher and other students to use as a crutch. I am forced to learn or fail. Thank God for U of P online learning. I have been promoted to manager at my Fortune 50 company before I even graduated.
Just finished MBA-TM flex. The course work/reading material is the same as anywhere else (check MIT, for example). It is all about what the individual does with it. I am glad it is over and I love the huge library I now have on my computer. The Tulsa campus has some fine people, too. UoP Admin is a bit sketchy but at the end of the day (and fifth counselor later) I am ok with it all....I am done. And I learned something. Learning teams are a little strange, true, but I am a driven person so I didn't mind doing 'more than my share'. Here's a tip: get to know your instructor, just like at 'real' school....Dr. Vincent, you are a cool dood, Mr.Hedges you also rock. Thank you Tulsa Campus for your dedication as I am sure you all know and put up with the Admin difficulties; just know that there are those of us who separate the UoP business from the UoP instructional staff. I enjoyed getting to know Oklahoma through you guys.
cheers,
-mc
I'm pursuing my BSIT at University of Phoenix online. I'm impressed with the entire infrastructure and the methodology to follow. I live in El Salvador and I’m very happy because finally I will get my degree. I’m taking my tenth class and only ten more left to finish. In the past I got classes at the traditional method, but in some semesters I was very busy and I did not complete the classes. I left to study for about ten years, but my first online class (GEN 300) was not traumatic. With the online method I carry my study, work and time for my family at the same time. When I get graduated from this degree, I will start as soon as possible my MBA degree.
I'm nearly done with my Bachelor's of Bus Mgmt at UOP and this is one of the fairest opinions of UOP I have seen yet. While not without its variety of poor to great instructors (like any institution), UOP boast several aspects that in my opinion contribute to a more applicable education than traditional universities:
1. The students are typically older with much more experience and motivation to share than traditional universities. Many of my UOP instructors (who also teach at public universities) commented that they enjoy UOP students much more due to the level of interest and experiences.
2. All of UOP's instructors are required to have real-world experience working in the fields they are teaching rather than simply having theoretical knowledge.
3. A large portion of the individual grade for each course is the team portion. Collaboration is mandatory and contributes to producing students more prepared for the real world.
4. Team oral and written presentations are required at the end of each course. Students become comfortable with public speaking, especially to communicate specific points. Again, the real world applications are immediate.
These are several of the key reasons UOP is producing graduates ready to contribute to any organization.
This was a very interesting article. I guess I'm a somewhat typical U of P faculty member in that I teach at a traditional college (adjunct) as well as U of P. I am amazed at the maturity of the students - my MBA students continue to amaze me with the quality of their work, comments, etc.
U of P, I think, is far more challenging than the traditional school. There is constant reading, written "homework," and the expectation of extensive student participation.
I recently graduated from UOP with a BS in Information Technology. I enjoyed my learning experience very much at UOP. Since I am on active duty in the military I have had lots of opportunity to pursue my education through the typical "brick and mortar" university. I found the experience at UOP online was much more rewarding. I not only learned from the facilitator I learned a lot from fellow students. My experience at traditional college has been that the entire student’s focus is on the professor or instructor and then when class is over they leave. Discussion does not happen unless the professor is directing the conversation. At UOP online the whole class learns to interact with each other and it being all working adults we are all there to learn and actively participate unlike sitting in a class at a traditional college with 19 or 20 year olds some may be there to learn and others are not.
I am actually looking at starting my MBA through UOP. Without UOP it would be very difficult for people like me who work all day, have a family and have to transfer every three to four years because of the job to ever get a degree. I worked hard for my degree and I am glad that UOP challenges me to learn, they defiantly have a great business model and provide a great university experience.
I found the article very informative and more so the comments from students and faculty. I just recently graduated from UOP with a BSB/M. I worked very hard for my 3.95 GPA and feel the level of academic learning is every bit as intense of that of a traditional university. I was planning to attend UOP starting next month to get my MBA, but in researching univerisities I have become concerned about the reputation UOP has. I am finding that it is not as well respected as a university of higher learning as I would like to hear. The MBA program is of course a very expensive investment and I want to make sure I am getting the biggest bang for my buck. Still researching. Any comments would be appreciated.
UOP Graduate
I really don't know what it's like to be a student at Phoenix, because the admissions counselor who was supposed to be working with me flaked on me more than once and would not return my emails or phone calls. It has really been a dissappointing experience.
I am 3 classes away from completing my MSN from UOP. I can honetly say that the class facilitators are more than qualified, and contribute much to the online format. I write a paper per week, and must complete reading assignments much like student in a traditional setting. Rather than being een as inferior, UOP should be commended for bringing education to the students, rather than making the students come to the education. I have learned a tremendous amount, and recommend the UOP MSN program to my peers.
I have a BS Chemistry from a brick and mortar college and I have another 2 months left to complete my MBA/Global Management. I have to cooment that UOP's structure and work takes a back seat to any institution. In my opinion research is good f you are going to pursue research but UOP offers real world experiences from facilitators that have experience in the field. I am almost finished with an MBA/GM and I was offered a job making double plus a few thousand more than what I was making in my previous job. Oh, by the way, most of the skills i have learned with UOP are in use, such bringing cross functional teams together, handling culture differences, managing virtual teams, motivation, budgeting, SOX, effective communication, presentations, etc. UOP is a great learning experience and should be recognized as such. It seems the traditional type of institutions have some kind of e-learning offerings but cannot catch up to UOP so they downgrade the school. Isnt' funny how most of the schools are comparing their programs to UOP? For instance, our university is great, much better program than UOP's. Food for thought.
INTEL CUTS TUITION AID FOR UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX CLASSES
http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/linux/world/archives/the-university-of-phoenix-reinvents-the-week-again-3727#comments
Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 5, 2006 12:00 AM
Intel Corp. employees can no longer attend the University of Phoenix and a host of other schools on the company's dime because of stricter standards for tuition reimbursement.
The giant chipmaker now will pay for classes only at business and engineering schools with blue-ribbon accreditation.
In Arizona, the three state universities and a couple of others make the cut, including Thunderbird, the Garvin School of International Management.
The company, which has about 5 percent of its employees in school at one time, says it made the rare blanket move largely because it found that employees who didn't go to top-notch programs were losing out to those who did for promotions and new jobs.
Alan Fisher, Intel's manager of global extended education programs, said the change is in no way an indictment of for-profit schools like the University of Phoenix. He said that instead, it was a reflection on Intel's culture and highly educated workforce.
Still, the move is a blow to Phoenix-based Apollo Group, parent of University of Phoenix.
It relies heavily on tuition reimbursement for its revenue and has long counted Intel among its largest corporate customers.
Ayla Dickey, an Apollo spokeswoman, said the school hopes Intel reconsiders.
My concern with UOP is the attack it makes on the integrity of traditional degrees. E.g., whereas a traditional undergraduate student must sit through some 45 contact hours of lectures before receiving 3 units of credit, a UOP student receives the same credit for less than half the amount of instruction. In my experience advising undergraduate students, I have found transfer students from UOP to be of the poorest quality and unable to handle the responsibility of academic rigors. I, for one, will never hire a UOP student.
I think that it is tragic that some of the traditional universities think that they are better than UOP or any other school. I am completing my MAEDSPE from UOP. UOP offers many different ways to receive a good quality education. To the person that said he was an academic counselor, it is pathetic that you mention that UOP students have a poor time adjusting to the academic community. I have done both types of learning and I now will have a master's degree at 31. By the way traditional univesities have more students who sit around and decide that they are going to skip classes and just take exams and PASS! At UoP, that is impossible. Unless you have completed some of their classes, none of you who talk down concerning UoP have the right to say anything.
I received my Bachelor's degree at a traditional state university. My class rooms were usually large lecture halls with many students. The teacher usually remained a stranger. At UOP, I can reach the instructor anytime day or night by phone or e-mail. The traditional university graded on a curve, and the grade one received was usually a C; no matter how hard he or she worked. There was little if any motivation to do well. I am just a few weeks shy of receiving my MBA from UOP, I have developed a relationship with all instructors because the class rooms were small, and the grades I received, good or bad, were earned and not based on some ridiculous curve system. I also have an online library at UOP. If I had to research something at the traditional university, I would have to cover six stories of a 10 acre building only to find the pages from the books or magazines were ripped out. This not only made research frustrating, but it showed me that the teachers teach the same old thing every semester limiting any innovation of new ideas. I recommend UOP to all potential students.
This well balanced article points out some of the drivers of the for-profit education sector, as well as the "new environment for public universities in the United States characterized by limited resources". I would also add, as the population of non-traditional students (adult, holding down a job, minority)grows and we push more students into the community college systems (now at 46% of total undergratduates, up from 31% in 1970)there needs to be more focus on getting stdents productive careers, which in some cases may be more important that exposure to “star” faculty members.
It looks like I'll have to be the voice of dissent here. I'm about to graduate from UoP with a BSIT. The article above is entirely fair, but some of the commentary is a bit more glowing than the school actually deserves.
Thus far in my program I've not been impressed with the quality of instructors or the standards to which students are held. Some of my fellow students often had very poor grasp of the subject matter, poor writing and communication skills, and were still passing, often with very good grades.
Don't take this as a complete slam, I chose them for my degree, and that was a good decision. I may go back for a master's. Phoenix has its place among people who logistically can not attend a traditional university, such as myself.
However, don't go into it expecting your degree to be as respected as a traditional school degree, and don't be indignant when it isn't - there is a good reason for the lesser percieved value of the degree.
A fair article. Our experience in a similar educational environment is that star faculty members not only exist, but attract other educators with similar qualities.
I attended UOP MBA/HCM program in the traditional classroom setting. No one handed me a degree, the course work was very challenging and I felt that I was well prepared. I only had one teacher who I would say was not up to par.
I then recieved my MSN from UOP online. This program was more challenging then the first and all of my instructors were Doctorate prepared nurses. I thought I would never make it through. This program is accredited by the same agency that accredited my highly respected BSN program so I feel very comfortable with my choices. UOP offered me the opportunity to recieve a degree that because of work constraints I wound never been able to obtain.
I have been teaching for UOP Online for 2 years in the Adult Education and Distance Learning Program. This is a fair article from my viewpoint. UOP just made a change to their teaching model and payment structure. They did not consult their instructors about this, not did they notify them of the payment structure adjustment, only the change in the teaching model. I was very upset at their handling of this policy change, but balanced against the fact that I don't have to get involved in departmental politics but instead, can focus on my students and their learning experience, I'm ok with it. I have thoroughly enjoyed working with these students. For the most part they are highly motivated, do an incredible amount of good quality work (along with taking care of family and careers), and are very supportive and encouraging of each other. I wish I had more of this type of student in the face-to-face classroom!
I have to say that the overall program for the MAEDSPE in special education is pretty good. I have been told in the education field by people in the field that the only thing that matters is getting the certification and the grades.
There are some negatives:
1. The learning teams often have people who do not do their share of the work. I sometimes had to do the work myself.
2. They did not tell me what certification exams I needed to take. I now have three weeks to study for two exams.
I agree the article was in good taste. Let us all look at the real world here. I work with many students of brick and mortar universities. I have attended a State university. The truth is the best education I have received is from the UOP. I have, on more then one occasion, challenged the attendees of the blue ribbon crowd and I would have to say, “we can debate at the same level”. I complete my AAB degree this year and gladly continue with UOP for my Bachelors. The education, process, format and investment is worth what is put into any quality education. I am with the majority “Thanks UOP”. You offered us something we needed.