Weekly Wisdom | VCU President Michael Rao

Bridget Burns: Welcome and thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Start the Week with Wisdom. I’m your host, Bridget Burns, executive director of the University Innovation Alliance.

Doug Lederman: And I’m Doug Lederman, editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed.

Bridget Burns: Each week, Doug and I team up to have a conversation with a sitting college president or chancellor to understand what it’s like to lead in this very unique moment in time, but to also distill and surface some insight, perspective, wisdom, understanding of the presidency, all of that on a Monday morning in as hopeful of tone as possible because we don’t want you to have Sunday scaries. So that’s why we call it Start the Week with Wisdom.

Doug Lederman: Today, we’re joined by Michael Rao, who’s president of Virginia Commonwealth University. Welcome, Dr. Rao. He’s in VCU as his fourth presidency, I believe, and got an early start because he looks young and he is and worked at a range of institutions and I think has a lot to lot to share with us. So thanks for being here.

Michael Rao: Oh, thanks for having me. It’s a real honor. I have great respect for the University Innovation Alliance and the work that you’re doing because it lines up with my values. I’m really excited to be here today.

Doug Lederman: Great. So, we actually wanted to start with a little bit about your background. As I said, I think you became a president at 28 at Mission College in California and then have moved through a series of institutions. And I guess I’m curious about your arc as a president and A, whether you set out to be a president and just got there early. And then, B, sort of how you’ve seen the arc from a community college to a research university with a medical school and a major research ambitions.

Michael Rao: Yeah, so it’s all just kind of happened, to be honest. I didn’t have a plan. I grew up in a really small town with a lot of very wise, elderly people who became my friends. I spent a lot of time talking with them, and they used to have a frequent line, which was, don’t wait to get to be our age before you know what matters. And what mattered to me was, you know, how am I going to use this life that I have to really help other people do better in their own lives and to achieve what we all think of as the dream in this country? And we talk about it a lot, but we have a long way to go to make sure that everyone has a chance at achieving it. And so, honestly, Doug, I didn’t have a plan. I did like higher education. So, when I got to college, I was pretty excited about it. I said, I really think this is cool. All these people like to learn, and this is a lot of fun. And there was one day when I was at the University of South Florida, which was the closest to my home, and didn’t have as many students in those days at all as it does now. But anyway, the long story made short is that I saw the president and I said, hmm, I wonder what he does. And soon after that, I ended up working as assistant to the president at the University of Florida in a PhD program and got a better idea of that. And then went to Mission College as a dean after being a consultant for a few years. And then the faculty kind of recruited me and said, hey, listen, we want you to be our interim president. And I said, okay. And then I applied for the job and got it. And the rest, you know.

Bridget Burns: Wow, that’s a whirlwind. And especially for as many leadership roles that you’ve had and the impact you’ve created, I’m just super curious about, I mean, I would normally ask what prepared you, but it sounds like just throwing your hat in and or throwing your name in the hat and just like doing it. What do you think for advice that you would give other people who are thinking about having a long career trajectory in leadership in higher education? What advice could you possibly give them? I mean, you must have like a million things that you share.

Michael Rao: Yeah, I mean, the most important thing, Bridget, that’s a really good question, because I think a lot of people get caught up in the status and the title and the, you know, the resources, whatever. The bottom line, though, is if you stay focused on what you really want to achieve as a human being among other human beings, you know, most of the people listening are enablers. They’re people who want to help other people. Stay focused on that. And if it’s meant to happen, it’ll happen. It’ll happen in the right place at the right time. And really, that’s what I did: I focused on that. I thought higher education was the great enabler of what I consider to be the American dream. And I really wanted to be certain that I was a part of that. And when I did go to Mission College and I became so focused on that and starting new programs in Silicon Valley that lined up with a lot of the employment there at the associate degree level and such, I think people said, you know, this guy I think is leading. And I didn’t know I was leading. I just, I guess I was. And I was letting, you know, my values guide me. So start with your values. And then I think the rest all kind of happens. Combine it with hard work and make things happen for other people. Focus less on yourself, more on others, and more on results. So what’s the impact of what you’re doing? Forget programs and all that. Do those programs do things for other people and in volumes? We are so far behind in terms of the number of people that we need to take care of and get to the next level in their lives. We’ve got a lot of work to do. And if it means you’re going to be president or provost or whatever, it’ll happen. If it doesn’t, then I think you got to be happy that you’re making a difference in other people’s lives.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. I just, Doug, I would ask a quick follow-up, which is, you know, given that you’ve served such different types of institutions and you’ve really kind of ascended the ladder of higher ed, where you’re now like working daily with, you know, our last, our prep conversation really focused on the work you’re doing with your medical school. So, but starting where you did, I’m sure you’ve run into a bit of higher ed snobbery along the way. And I know that for those of us who have been around search committees, there’s this perspective that if you search, if you work at one type of institution, that you, you know, you need to be able to know how to run this kind of institution. And I’m just curious, you seem to disprove that. I’m guessing you’ve run into a lot of it. And what I would ask is: can you speak to those folks who have that idea that you have to have been a president of an elite research one university in order to be a president of an elite research one university?

Michael Rao: Sure. I mean, realistically, you know, one of the things I love about what you are doing at the University Innovation Alliance is I think you’re really trying to release that hold that has been out there on this whole sense of what constitutes elite and prestige and all that. You know, it’s for a very small population. And the bottom line is that, you know, what we’re doing is focusing on the vast majority of people who have needs. And, you know, that kind of started with a book that had been written by the former president of the American Association of Community Colleges years ago. I think it was Dale Parnell, and he talked about The Neglected Majority. And that was something that really opened people’s minds to, you know, hey, why are we here? And I think it applies to all levels, including major research universities as well. And, you know, commitment to access is absolutely critical. I think what made the difference, though, Bridget, to your question is really just that there was a board in place that was interested in results. And apparently, from what they told me, I was talking more about what I would do instead of who I am and why I’m so qualified. I just didn’t get into that. I just talked about what I would do with this great place to try and make it, you know, a place that became more meaningful and impactful to society and to the people who make society. So I did talk about a graduation rate and we more than achieved the goal that we put in place. I talked about research volume. We did come up a little short, but not very short of the goal that I had set. And I talked a lot about medical care and the importance of safety net hospitals in shaping a society in which healthcare has to be one of those human things that you’ve got to have access to, no matter what your situation is from an economic standpoint. And so, and we do all the tough stuff. I mean, transplantation and, you know, we’ve had filled COVID units. We call them medical respiratory ICUs and such. So all those things were things I talked about. And honestly, I didn’t talk as much about myself. If they asked me directly, I would say yes. In fact, there were a few times where a couple of them were like, well, tell us about you. And so, Doug, I answered that my question the way I answered yours. I told them where I grew up and all of that. And whatever happened, it worked. But I think the status stuff, you got to watch out for it. And all you’ll do is continue to draw this line between elite, quote unquote, and other institutions.

Doug Lederman: You referred earlier to sort of the ways in which higher education sort of collectively isn’t meeting the need. And you started by talking about the desire to try to have it be to talk about how much need there is. What are the ways in which you think the sort of higher education ecosystem is falling short? And what do you think are the things that institutions like yours and others need to do to move the needle more?

Michael Rao: Well, you know, one of the things that’s really cool about being at VCU is watching students after the last 12, 13 years take enormous leaps forward in their lives in just three or four years, right? Kids who come from small towns, their parents didn’t go to college, and now they’re in a lab where they’re discovering a cure for, you know, a particular disease, right? Or, you know, they’re part of a really cool, innovative solution to a major housing problem for people who have insufficient resources and continuously face eviction, that sort of thing. So, you know, it’s really very, very important, I think, for us to rethink all of this. For right now, you know, the bachelor’s degree is the standard. I think it’s really important that we show people pathways and not take pride in those who were able to figure it out, could get through and get a degree, those who couldn’t, tough stuff. You know, we’ve got to end those attitudes, right? We’ve got to put in place warming, warm, welcoming pathways for everybody, no matter who they are, no matter what they are, no matter where their backgrounds are. And, you know, we’ve got to release the hold on these current elitist rankings that are trying to influence everybody about what the best colleges are. Well, you know, the truth of the matter is the best colleges are not necessarily just the colleges that have students with the highest SAT scores. An SAT score, an ACT score can be a useful thing, but it is not the best determination of how well a student will ultimately do. Ultimately, what matters is what’s going to happen after college? What are you going to contribute? What’s the impact that you’re going to have on society and other people? You need the multiplier effect through these college graduates, right? So you need more of those to come through our places. The other thing I would say harkens back for me to a conversation I had with two young men in the library at VCU about maybe eight or nine years ago. They said, you know, Dr. Rao, could we talk to you? And I said, sure. And it turned out to be like a 30-minute conversation on some evening. And one was a computer science student, the other was an engineering student. And they said, can we try to influence you on the college experience? I said, sure, absolutely. And I thought they’d talk about sports or something. They did a little bit, but what they really said is, can college be less of sitting in a classroom listening to a talking head, having to memorize what we hear, and then regurgitate it back so that we can forget it a year later. And I said, well, what would you do? And they said, where we learn is where we’re engaged, where we have a sense of why we’re learning what we’re learning and how it benefits other people and how it’s going to benefit me in my ability to really be a major influence on society. I use different words than they did, but that’s exactly what I got. That totally changed all of my goals. So I left that meeting with those guys and I reset my goals, not immediately, but in the next year, I’m like, what they told me is really important and very, very valuable. Major influencers.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. Well, so delighted to hear that a bit more about how you look at leadership, how you think about your career arc and the responsibility of being a president. I’m also curious about some of the nuts and bolts of the presidency. And I think that there’s a lot of mystery around the role and how people actually manage to get through the day. So I want to ask you: if you could, would you mind sharing on, especially for a day that you’re going to have a really intense, like say your board meeting, do you have a morning routine that sets you up and optimizes you for something that’s going to be really challenging? And if you could share just a snippet of what kinds of things help you be a president on a hard day?

Michael Rao: Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever been asked that question before, Bridget. It’s a really good question if you’re interested in the answer. For me, it’s really knowing that that’s coming. And I try to know it’s coming a few days in advance. I don’t always, I’m not always good at this. Some days, some days because it’s been so wild just before a board meeting or something. And I have two boards out, a health system board and a university board. So I have this happen frequently. But getting ahead of it, knowing that I’ve exercised enough like the days prior. You can’t usually exercise the day of because you’re starting so early. Making sure that I have had what I call breathing time. My wife is a saint and she’s been a wonderful partner. She’s a lifelong meditator and I do it. I’ve learned to meditate. I have learned to create a space where nothing can get in for some amount of time and I’m just breathing and I’m just connecting with my own soul, which usually brings me closer to my values right after I come out of a meditation. This is not weird stuff. I think 10 years ago, it was hard to talk about it because people thought, oh, how odd are you? But this is really about being human and recognizing that, you know, there are a lot of things that can create stress and they will create stress if you let them, but you’ve got to continue to lead, right? Leading is about organizational movement, making the organization change to come together with the people who it benefits, right? This is all about a mission, and our mission is transforming people’s lives. In the case of health system, it’s saving people’s lives, it’s stopping them from having to live with cancer and so on and so forth. So it’s big stuff, and you have to get back to that and not get lost in a lot of the stuff that people will do to try and distract you. And so that peacefulness that you have to have, I think, every day is really, really critical.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. Super helpful. Thanks for sharing that.

Michael Rao: Sure. I’ve never shared that before. I don’t think anyone’s ever known I meditated, but I do. You’d be surprised how many other presidents do. But yeah, they only frequently will tell me, you know, when we’re chatting, but I was like, you know, if people want these kinds of jobs, they should probably know what kind of survival skills you need to be successful. It’s either that or you’ll grind your teeth down to nothing.

Bridget Burns: Yeah. You’re on mute, Doug.

Doug Lederman: I was just saying you should keep going.

Bridget Burns: Okay. Well, I would ask one other question that I think doesn’t get asked, which is: I know that you and many other presidents are back-to-back all day. And yet, the whole time you’re receiving emails. I’m curious about when you actually carve out time to respond and do email because it’s often that’s a black box.

Michael Rao: No, that’s a really good point. And so, in my case, Bridget, it was really different pre-pandemic. Pre-pandemic, I didn’t really get to email very often until like the middle of the day and the end of the day. And I would always tell folks, you know, if it’s like really, really important, just text me so I know, right? Don’t wait for me to get to the email to get your surprise. So, with the pandemic, though, because it became more 24-7, and I’m guilty of this. I just told you a story about how much I try to, you know, breathe and all of that. And I was not always so good through this pandemic about that and have tended to check my email more and so on and so forth. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t because it can be very distracting. But much more now than before. And I’ve tried to, you know, ask my office team to help me carve out time to do that. But I’m also asking, you know, people to make sure that I know if I need to know. And I’m more of a texter, a little, actually, I’m just more of a phone person, period. And so, if it’s really that important, you know, let’s talk and think through this together so that we can kind of, you know, strategize on how to deal with something that might be coming up. And what I’m getting better at with time is better, I’m not great, but I’m getting better, is how does this all relate, Mike, talking to myself, to how you’re going to help students and patients, right?

Doug Lederman: How are you thinking about? I mean, given what you just said, how are you thinking about this moment we’re at? I mean, it seems like this last few weeks has been, I’ve seen more people taking a breath than I think has been true for, you know, the 15 or 16 months that we’ve all been running a marathon as if it were a sprint. And we’ve had a few minutes, weeks maybe to sort of take a pause. Do you have a sense of how, I mean, how are you looking at the next six months? And do you think it’s going to be, you know, both in terms of how you worked, in terms of how you’re feeling about your people and whether your people have had a chance to re-energize or at least recover? I don’t know. How are you thinking about heading into this fall and the sort of task at hand?

Michael Rao: Yeah, you know, with really great excitement. I’m very excited to see more people. I have missed them, although I continue to round in the hospitals a couple of days a month. And, you know, we, you know, everybody has to be there. So I’ve seen everybody there. But the university had definitely, the population had dwindled, and the population that was there was definitely, you know, in and out and then not staying and that sort of thing. So very different. The library was as empty as I had ever seen it about a year ago. You know, over time it increased with people, including in the summer terms that, you know, we had great enrollments for. But I’m looking forward to it. I think we all have to, Doug, really get back to why we are here. You know, we’re here to shape and develop the lives of a large number of people, you know, of varying ages, but a large number of people. And a lot of people we know require that the energy of being present with somebody else from whom they’re learning. I talked with a student just yesterday who said to me, I learn so much more effectively if I’m in that same room with the professor. And I said, well, what if you are not in that room, but in like a Zoom room? And he said, you know, I got to tell you, people are on their phones. He said, more than half of the students don’t have their cameras on, and they lose, they lose, you know, they lose interest. But I said, so being in person makes that much of a difference. And he said, it makes all the difference in the world when you are 18, 19 or 20-some years old. It probably does to some 40-year-olds. I know I need to see people, and I’m really looking forward to it. So I think people may have to decide whether or not being present and being in higher education is really what they want to do. Because the other thing I found, Doug, it’s I’m just going to say this because it’s a fact. There were a lot of people who enjoyed the not having to go to work in the pandemic. And I think there are many who are saying, I want to keep it that way. I want to stay at home. Well, if you do, you know, you may have to think about what you’re going to do because this may not work out for you in some circumstances. There will be a lot of online learning that I think will go forward with in the future. That may be a place for people who want to do that. Stay home, that is, but for a lot, you know, it’s not going to be.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. I think that that whole debate around return to work, return to the office, I think it’s really fascinating one because you look at other sectors and you’re hearing that there’s going to be these mass resignations, that people are, they’ve changed their values and their priorities and they now want, you know, we want something different. And I’m sensitive to that as a boss. We’ve always been remote though. Admittedly, we don’t even, I don’t know that if we returned to an office, it would be in a measuring office. But I... If we are hearing from students that they want in person and we know that the future is institutions designing their need more around the needs of students, we’re really at, I don’t know if other sectors feel as much of a conflict, but we really are at a conflict here because our employees are burned out and have seen that work-life balance to some degree creep back because of working from home. But if we’re really going to design around the needs of students, that’s in direct conflict. And I’m just glad that you have a thoughtful approach to respond. What I’m seeing is a lot of presidents who just send out a memo that says, get back in there. And, you know, I think people, you know, they can understand if you can make the case, but like just saying you have to go back to your office because, I just don’t see that being productive.

Michael Rao: No, and I think those blanket kinds of things are useless. What you really want to focus on is what is your job and what are you doing and where do we need you? Where do students need you? Where do the employees who may depend on you need you? And listen, if it’s if you can be more productive at home and achieve greater balance in your life and the job is fitting to that, then do it. But if you are a nurse, we need you to come in. If you are teaching freshman courses, we may need you to come in. There may be some courses we could give you online, right, for students who choose to be online. But, you know, we do need to have a real measured approach and we need to look at everybody’s situation individually. And sometimes, Bridget, we may have to say, hey, listen, you are super talented. You have done, you do one of the best jobs that I have ever seen or that we have ever seen online. We need you to keep doing that. And here’s what we need you to be teaching. And a lot of research too can be done from home as well. We know that. And it’s effective. It’s the impact that matters, right? It’s not necessarily the process. And that’s what I get worried about in higher education sometimes, especially larger institutions, is we, you know, we get lost in process. Does it matter though? Think about the student. Think about, in my case, the patient, you know. And if it matters, then do the right thing for them.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. I guess one last question, this is really flown quickly. The one last question that we would ask is: what’s the best advice that someone ever gave you that has served you in your career?

Michael Rao: Well, actually, there are a couple of people that come to mind. That’s a great question. Do you remember John Hitt, who was the president at the University of Central Florida? So, John was one of my favorite friends. John was always so encouraging. I would often confide in John that I’m navigating this ridiculous political situation with a narcissistic personality, somebody who wants what they want, and it has no good to my institution at all. And he was so calm, and he would say, well, here’s how you ought to go about that. Don’t let them control your emotions into it. Here’s how you try to get them to focus on what you ultimately need to achieve for the sake of your mission. So, he was really great at that. And then I had a chair of my board who unfortunately died while she was chair of the board, and I miss her terribly. She was a lawyer, she was a lawyer and just a tremendous source of wisdom. And she so politely would say to me, Mike, I see you doing so many administrative things, and you’re really good at details and you get everything done. But I just want to tell you, as an older person, that at some point you won’t be able to do everything. And you need to learn how to delegate more. And you need to learn how to focus more on what you’re really great at, which is envisioning the future and focusing on what matters with regard to students and patients. And in her honor, I do that much, much more. And I can’t say I did it as well before her, but I definitely do it better. My wife had been saying the same things for many years. Monica had been saying, you know, you’re going to do that? And I’ll say, well, yeah, somebody has to do it. And she’s like, that’s a big place. Aren’t there other people who do those things? And I’m like, I don’t know. I just have to do it. But anyway, I finally listened to Phoebe.

Bridget Burns: Well, that’s great advice to leave on today. So, but thanks so much for a wonderful conversation and for Doug leading, joining us on this journey. And for folks at home, we will see you next week. And we hope you have a wonderful one. Thanks.