Weekly Wisdom | Everett Community College President Daria Willis

Bridget Burns: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Start the Week with Wisdom. I’m your host, Bridget Burns, executive director of the University Innovation Alliance.

Doug Lederman: And I’m Doug Lederman, editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed.

Bridget Burns: Each week, Doug and I team up to have a conversation with a sitting college president or chancellor to try and understand what it’s like to lead in this moment. And throughout the pandemic, it’s been very useful for us to get a sense of the day-to-day life on campus as things have evolved. So the purpose is to give you some inspiration and hope throughout the week, and definitely not to bum you out. That’s why we call it Start the Week with Wisdom. So excited to have you on today.

Doug Lederman: And our guest today is Daria J. Willis, who’s president of Everett Community College in Washington state. Before coming to Everett about two and a half years ago, she was provost and senior VP of academic affairs at Onondaga Community College, which is part of the State University of New York system. And welcome to the program today.

Daria Willis: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Bridget Burns: Well, we’re super excited. And we had you back. We had you when you first, it was a little over a year ago, you came on. And I think we were just starting to get our legs in the virtual world. So I’m just curious about how, are you holding up right now? Can you give us a little context? Like, are you in person? Are you virtual? Just kind of what’s your life like right now?

Daria Willis: Well, first of all, I’m glad that my life is like I made it. You know, we’re still here, we’re surviving, we’re still standing up tall. It was quite the interesting experience considering when the pandemic hit, I was like in month six, seven or eight with, you know, in my first presidency. So, that was certainly an experience to be had. But right now, things are good at the college. We are doing well. We’re grooving, as I would like to say. About a little over 30% of our classes are face-to-face or in hybrid mode. We’re hoping to slowly let that number trickle up as we get to the spring quarter. And, you know, one of the special things I think that’s happened is just seeing people again, seeing students back on campus. We had our opening week activities. They were playing out on the lawn and having a good time. So, that was really wonderful. So, I mean, the college is doing well. We are focusing on our strategic plan and we’re looking at the future. So, you know, one of the things that we’ve been able to do is, okay, let’s how do we define who we’re going to be as an institution during this moment of crisis, during this pandemic? And we’ve been asking ourselves some tough questions, and hopefully, we’ll get to those answers pretty soon.

Bridget Burns: It’s great. I was just on campus last week for the first time at UMBC, and it was surprising how similar the energy to pre-pandemic felt in terms of, yeah, everyone’s masking up, and there are definitely the indications of what’s going on. But it was just so nice to be around students, and they’re very, they were very, I don’t know, it seemed very normal to them, I guess, at this point. So, I’m just curious if that’s how you’re seeing things.

Daria Willis: Yeah, besides the masking, it almost feels normal again and in a certain respect. The students that we have on campus are excited to be here. The library is packed now with students wanting to study. I think the only thing we’re really missing is our food service vendors. Some of those kind of went down by the wayside during the pandemic. So, we’ve got creative and brought food trucks to campus, and that’s brought in a whole different type of an atmosphere at the college. But students are enjoying it. And I’ve heard from two groups: you know, the group that says, Oh, I really love that online thing. Can we keep that up? And then other students who are like, No, I like online. I want to take a mixture, but I really want to be in person. So, I need those in-person student support services. So, we’ve been trying to, you know, work through that healthy balance of the two. But it’s really been amazing to see students back. Masked, of course, but it’s almost like normal.

Doug Lederman: Well, how about on the employee side? We have had a lot of conversations on this channel and elsewhere about burnout and about the challenges of keeping employees motivated, continuing to kind of sprint in the kind of endless sprint that we’ve had, a lot of us for the last 18 months. How are you, how have you approached that? How have you tried to address it as a leader?

Daria Willis: So, I’d say burnout was a common term used among employees pre-pandemic. And I’d say it was mostly around initiative fatigue. So, every time something new came out, colleges jumped on top of it. And then you’ve got your usual steady group of folks. I call them my amen corner. Every time something happens and you want them to do something, you’ve got that good 50 or so employees who are always right on top of it and they want to help support. Then, when the pandemic hit, that really exacerbated a lot of the initiative fatigue and just how we were able to manage some of the mental challenges that people experiences or the challenges of being alone. One of the things that I noticed is that folks, for a lot of people, the college was their life. They didn’t have people at home. They only had like four-legged creatures and animals and such. So, being pulled out of that work environment was very difficult and challenging for them. So, one of the things that we’ve decided to do as an institution to look at and to really respond to our employees is to go back to our mission and who we are and drop some of that initiative fatigue and say, okay, here are some of the things we just can’t do anymore. And here are the things that we’re going to continue to move forward as. Because my message to the college these past 18 months is that we can’t be all things to all people. You know, community college, and I think that’s something that’s sticky for community colleges because we’re open access institutions. We’re going to let everybody in and we’re in the community and we’re going to do all this stuff. But if you’re not really watching who you are and what your niche is within the community that you’re part of, then you’re going to get initiative fatigue, you’re going to get people who are burnt out, and then you’re going to go stray away from your mission. So that’s one of the reasons why I decided that it’s important that we start our strategic plan. And then we looked at also our shared governance structure and the hundreds of committees that we had on campus. And we started making choices and saying, nope, we’re not going to do this, we’re not going to do that. And we’re just sticking to what makes Everett Everett. And that’s been helpful. We’ve also are looking at some telecommuting policies. And I’ll be the first to say that pre-pandemic, I was one of those folks that said, you’re not working unless you get in your car and you drive 20, 30 miles to work and you stay there for eight hours, then you jump back in your car and you fight traffic and come home. Well, that’s not quality of life for folks. And so we’ve learned during the pandemic that, hey, we can run a college sitting in my living room with a computer next to me or with my kids running around, or I can teach my classes from home. So we’re looking at some flexible scheduling telecommuting policies that we’re allowing our employees to really take advantage of because the burnout is real. And I don’t know if you all have seen it, I’m sure you have, but we’re also losing employees that folks are deciding just not to come back. We’re having a crisis within this country on getting people to come back to work. So we have to look at the work differently, but make sure that students are still at the center and that we still have the necessary operations and support services to help our employees and our students, frankly.

Bridget Burns: That’s super helpful. I immediately wanted to ask you if you have an example of anything that you’re going to stop doing. I know we talk about that in higher ed. We always say we got to stop adding more things to the plate. And I think that intuitively leaders know that, but the process to identify what to stop doing and how to communicate that in a way that is not forever or perhaps in a way that somehow creates more confusion. Is there anything that you can share with us that you?

Daria Willis: Yeah, you know, one of the things we’re lucky, I guess, in Washington because the legislature has really put a lot of focus behind guided pathways, which is great. And as an equity tool and as a way to get students from point A to point Z in community colleges. But what I found here is that there’s, I would say, an excess of that level of support. So, for example, with our guided pathways structure, we get a considerable amount of funding from the legislature. However, we also get coaches and we get coaches from College Spark and we get coaches from the Guided Pathways Initiatives and we also get coaches from Achieving the Dream. But they’re all here to do the same thing. And as we were navigating the pandemic, we had probably four or five coaches coming to visit the college and coming to see the same people within, you know, two months of each other. And I saw that that got kind of that was tiring for a lot of folks. And so we sat down with our IR team and, like I said, my amen corner and we started saying, okay, now which of these coaches do we not need anymore? And it wasn’t an issue that we don’t want to be part of Pathways because we’re certainly there, but it’s too much to have five or six coaches coming to your institution and they’re all talking about the same thing and yet they’re from different parts of the globe or you know of the higher ed sector. So we decided to move on with a certain group and we said, you know, we’re just going to stick with two coaches this year instead of the six that we were assigned before from three different contracts that the college had. And that has given that particular team some room to breathe and to actually get to some work so that they can have the data to share with the coaches once every six months instead of you know two or three times every couple months. And so that’s, I think, one of the examples that we that we’re putting in place. We’re also looking at not having so many vendors who are coming to do good work on the campus that’s costing us money, but is also taking time and effort out of people’s schedules. So we said this year we’re only going to focus on one vendor that’s going to help support us on our enrollment and our process mapping. Instead of having three or four that are looking at different aspects of that funnel, we narrowed that down to one. And so those are the types of initiatives that I think we’ve been taking a look at. And then finally I’ll say in our community and that’s been probably the hardest conversation to have because in communities that are very tight-knit and close to you, they want the college to do everything. And there are 34 community and technical colleges in Washington state. And so I don’t know. I saw during the pandemic, someone said no is a complete sentence, but you have to say it the right way, I think, with our community partners. And instead of us, you know, taking on every idea that someone has, I’ll be the first one to say, you know what, that’s a wonderful thing, but maybe our partners down the road at Edmonds College or at Lake Washington or at Skagit Valley or somewhere else can do that and get on the phone, call them, and make that ease of the transition. Just because that we don’t, I don’t have the human capital or the human resources to make it happen. But I don’t want the community to think that we’re not supporting their needs as well. So it’s been a really cool thing to partner with our sister institutions to, you know, shift some of the load from one college to the next based on what we’re good at, who we say we’re going to be for this community.

Bridget Burns: That is really interesting to me. I just was thinking about all a lot of philanthropy right now is pretty obsessed with developing capabilities for technical assistance providers. And so that’s like this huge push, whether it’s the Gates Foundation or like multiple, every other foundation is talking, they define you as either TA or otherwise. And I do think that’s a really profound point in that you can create all this capacity in the field, but if it doesn’t acknowledge that every time a person comes to campus, they are requiring the energy and attention of a staff person that doesn’t actually have time to do that, that we can focus on one end, but if we don’t actually invest in capacity on the campus, that we’re not going to be in a better spot. So that was, thank you for coming to that TED Talk that you inspired. That was great. I feel like that’s a profound point. So yeah, thanks for that.

Doug Lederman: How do you balance the sort of future-looking work that you’re doing with the continuing kind of right in front of our faces things we have to deal with? And I guess maybe maybe the crisis management stuff is easing enough to make room for that. But I’m guessing it’s your amen corner and some of the same people involved in that. And we’ve definitely had conversations with leaders about struggling to look even, you know, midterm, you know, midway down the road, let alone to the horizon to try to keep on know where you’re going right now. How are you finding that balance? Are you choosing having different people look ahead or how are you working that?

Daria Willis: Well, you know, it’s a really good question. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about because I know I’ve talked about my little amen corner, but they can get burned out really quickly because they’re always the ones that they show up. But one of the things that we have been building at Everett is a new shared governance model that I think I kind of hinted to earlier. But with that, my task for that, the task force that’s leading that is to go out and find the people who aren’t the usual suspects coming to the table because we need their input and their voice, just like the 50 or so people part of that amen corner. Because if we don’t, then I fear that higher ed will continue to be left behind. Because yeah, we have to continue to manage the daily grind of the campus. But at the same time, we’re seeing, for example, in community colleges, enrollment is shifting again. Where across the nation, you know, we’re losing students. And there’s a reason why. Yeah, we could say it’s the pandemic. Absolutely. You know, students retired just like everyone else. But just like our employees and workers, people want, people have a different outlook of what they want education to be. And so if we’re not looking ahead and trying to balance that out with the daily work and we’re just stuck in this tunnel vision kind of mode, and it’s just what’s around me and not what’s in front of me, then I fear that community colleges, you know, you’re going to be, and what does it say? You’re going to be on the menu, you know, instead of the ones talking about and making the decisions that need to happen for your institutions. So that’s one of the reasons why, you know, again, we’re in our strategic planning mode because it keeps you focused on your mission and the direction that you want to head as a college. But at the same time, we can’t get stuck within our own traditions. And academia is that way. It’s very traditional. You know, I came up through the ranks to make it to the presidency from a traditional lens, from the faculty to dean, chair, provost, now president. But our kids today don’t want traditional. Our students today, our adults today don’t want traditional. And the world is changing. So we’ve got to be nimble and flexible and change with it. And the last thing I’ll say to this point is: it’s interesting because I think about this when before the pandemic, I remember having an all-campus meeting and I said, hey, we need to start adding more online classes because we were a face-to-face heavy campus. We maybe had 2% of our schedule that was fully online. And I’ve got over 19,000 students. And I remember that particular faculty members would say, you can’t teach XYZ course online. And then as soon as that pandemic hit, and the same ones who said we can’t do something were the first ones to say, oh, absolutely, we can change it. We can move to online. So why can’t we hold on to that forward-thinking, futuristic view of being flexible and nimble quickly and make that happen for our students now? Because we get stuck in all of the conversations and the open transparency and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then the business and industry folks are charging ahead and they’re going to start training people before we can even make the decision to make it happen. So you got to, I’ve been trying to dig deep down into the closets of the institution and finding folks who have so much institutional wealth and knowledge to get on these committees to help us out so that we don’t burn out the usual suspects that keep coming to the forefront to help the college.

Bridget Burns: I just, I don’t like amen. I just feel like that is the key. I’m talking to institutions around the country, and it’s we have earned a lot of confidence from this past 18 months, 20 months, whatever. And it is really flying in the face of any conjecture out there about the innovative capability of higher ed. And it’s interesting that it’s happened right in this moment where actually who we should be serving has is changing so rapidly. And students now, based on COVID, I think they expect flexibility is king. And they want to be able to take their class online. They want to be able to listen to it while they’re commuting. The idea of a commute is something that people are questioning. Like, so we really have to use that courage that came from this moment to be able to actually adapt. But there are too many institutions who really think that 18- to 22-year-olds are like this naturally occurring resource, that they’re going to come back and we can just get back. Like the idea of getting back is just, yeah. Anyway, I love that you’re thinking about all of the most provocative topics that I think we should be embracing right now.

Doug Lederman: I was going to ask you if there were any lessons that you have learned from leaders in higher ed, good or bad, and I think there are plenty of both, from watching other leaders navigate the pandemic. I feel like there’s been so many different philosophies about communication, about how to handle the the ambiguity. And I’m just wondering if there’s anything that you’re drawing upon as a leader that’s an inspiration from others.

Daria Willis: Yeah, you know, I think the biggest one for me, there’s a president, and I can’t remember his name or where he’s from, but I would see him on Twitter and he’d be cooking, I don’t know, Italian sausage or some dish. And I thought, man, isn’t that cool? And he’s messing up in the kitchen. You know, it wasn’t like the Martha Stewart type thing where everything’s nice and perfectly laid out and tasted, it looks good. But what I thought was cool about it is that people could see him outside of the usual space of in the office, suited and booted, buttoned up and ready for work. You got to see this person from a much more personal aspect within their own home. And I think that that was truly important for me. So I started to kind of do the same thing because when the pandemic came, I was working from my office. Of course, no one else was up here, but then I navigated to the house and I’ve got three kids. So just imagine trying to president from home with three kids ranging in age from 16 and the baby was two at the time. So it’s like it sounds like a circus in my house every day. But I thought it was important that people could see me within my element and the toddler running around with just a diaper and a T-shirt on and getting in the camera face and making ugly faces to the people on the other side of the Zoom world. But, you know, I think that’s the biggest lesson that I learned from other leaders that I’ve tried to duplicate or replicate myself is that we’re all human. And especially during the pandemic, people need to see each other as in your raw form, as a human, and yet you can still make decisions for the good of your communities and make it happen. And it helped to bring down some of that air of superiority and that hierarchical nature that you find oftentimes among administration and other people at the college. Because again, people can see you as a regular person with two legs and two feet that put your pants on one pants leg at a time. You know, you’re not this superwoman or superhuman individual. But, and it also helped for folks to extend grace during the pandemic because we all have our good days and bad days. And to be able to see each other in those moments and to use social media to push out, you know, this is what it’s like for me to be a president at home with my kids and husband and everything else that comes along with that. It gave students the power to say, you know, sorry, I’m in this class, but I’m gonna have my baby, you know, in my lap while I’m learning in this Zoom class, or other employees to have their furry. Like, I have one lady, she’s got like two big cats, and she was in a meeting and they were sitting right there staring at us as if, you know, if we were trying to come into the screen, the cats were going to attack us or something. But it was really cool. You know, she had her cats there. And so it’s helped to, I think, bring a new level of culture to institutions. And that’s the one thing, you know, that I saw this particular president do that I thought was really neat, that he was, he had a cooking show every like Wednesday or whatever for his campus. And I don’t have time to do a show, but I said, you know, I can use social media and take pictures. Here we are on Zoom or just even when I’m in meetings, bringing that human element to who you are as a leader really helped folks navigate the pandemic a little better.

Bridget Burns: That’s great. I agree. That’s, we really did have this like hierarchy aloof vibe and that only the fanciest of pants get into the presidency. And it turns out in COVID, they were all yoga pants. Doing yoga in them. So, well, the last thing we wanted to ask you is about your leadership journey. And first, we’d love to know what advice has someone else given you that has served you throughout your career the best. And then we also want to hear what advice do you find yourself most frequently giving other leaders who are thinking about leadership?

Daria Willis: So, the advice that I was given, which I think is most important, it’s a kindergarten principle, in my opinion: treat others the way you want to be treated. It’s a really simple, I think, guideline that it takes honestly, it’s hard for people to do that. To be kind to others, yeah, you can be firm and make sure that things happen the way they need to on your campus. But again, these are tough times. And I had a president that at Onondaga, you know, I said to myself, if I ever be a president, I’m going to be just like her because she, even if she had to let an employee go or, you know, dismiss them from the college or whatever the case may be, she always did it with dignity and respect. And she always treated other people, treated others, you know, with the highest sense of ethics. And so, I, I don’t know, like I said, I know it’s not profound, but it’s that kindergarten principle that we, I just swear we don’t see today. Just treat each other, treat folks kindly the way you want to be treated. And I think for other folks, that the biggest piece of advice that I could give them is say yes to opportunities. Oftentimes, we think about stuff too much. If it’s not hurting your ethical, moral compass, and all of that, and somebody’s asking you to do it, and you want to ascend to whatever level, just say yes to the opportunity, even if it’s hard, even if you don’t, you know, even if you don’t make it to whatever position or responsibility that you’re looking for, don’t have a problem with saying yes because folks who say no rarely get the opportunities that they’re looking for. But you say yes enough times and you do good work, you shouldn’t have an issue. And that’s one of the things that I’ve lived by. I remember when I was asked to be a faculty senate president, I had no idea what that meant. I didn’t know what faculty senate president was. It was a new campus, and they said, hey, Daria, we want you to do this. And I was like, yeah, absolutely, I’ll do it. And then all of a sudden, when I figured out what a faculty senate president really was supposed to do and tell faculty to stop complaining about parking and then tell the administration to do this for faculty, it was like, oh, should I have said yes to this opportunity? But, you know, if I had not had that moment and time during my career, I wouldn’t be where I’m sitting today. So just say yes. If it doesn’t hurt you, it doesn’t kill you. It’ll only make you stronger.

Doug Lederman: That’s great advice for folks today. Thank you for sharing it.

Bridget Burns: Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us twice now on Weekly Wisdom. We can’t wait to see what you do next. And it sounds like you’re doing some exciting work at Everett that I think other leaders should start thinking about in terms of taking things off the plate and really making that balance between being strategic and long term versus the short-term firefighting. So this was great. And Doug, thanks for being an excellent co-host. For those of you at home, join us next week, same time, same place, to hear from interim president of Oregon State University, Becky Johnson. So that should be a real treat. And otherwise, we hope you have a wonderful week.

Daria Willis: Thank you. Bye.