How to Turn Vulnerability Into a Teaching Superpower

Sound clip: You’re listening to a Times Higher Education podcast.

Eliza Compton: Hello and welcome to Campus Talks, a podcast from Times Higher Education that shares insights on all aspects of university life, from teaching to research excellence to leadership. I’m Eliza Compton, deputy editor of Campus. In this episode, we are looking at student support in the classroom, how to foster safe, inclusive learning spaces, how to spot students who are struggling, advice for starting conversations around sensitive topics like mental health and the skills educators need to do all this while protecting their own boundaries and equilibrium. As all university educators will know, supporting students to achieve all those important learning outcomes is about more than the right course content or appropriate pedagogy. Effective teaching, whether it takes place in a lecture hall, a small group tutorial or online, requires emotional intelligence, observation, openness and care to notice when students are becoming disengaged, falling behind in assessments or even at risk of dropping out altogether. And of course the stresses that weigh on students, that well-known list, the cost of living, world events, pressure to perform, job insecurity, to name just a few, also affect educators, which is to say none of this is an easy task. Fortunately my guest is well equipped to offer insight into both sides of this complex equation. Marissa Edwards is a senior lecturer and researcher in the University of Queensland Business School. A mental health advocate with a background in psychology and organisational behaviour, she regularly facilitates workshops around academic mental health at universities across Australia, Europe and the United States. She’s also the co-editor of the Research Handbook of Academic Mental Health and co-founder of Voices of Academia, a blog dedicated to academic mental health and well-being. Her current research focuses on well-being in PhD students as well as stress and burnout in postdoctoral scholars and ECRs. So I can think of no better person to have this conversation with. But before we get into the interview, which was recorded between Christmas and New Year, I wanted to give a quick heads up that this discussion makes reference to eating disorders, anxiety, depression and trauma. But now to my conversation with Marissa Edwards.

Eliza Compton: Hi, Marissa, and welcome to the Campus Talks podcast.

Marissa Edwards: Thanks so much for having me.

Eliza Compton: You are an academic researcher in mental health and an advocate. And with Australia about to go into a new academic year, I wanted to start with a question about the overall picture of student mental health. What issues should educators be looking out for as they go into the classroom this year?

Marissa Edwards: Well, I think it’s important to recognise that students today, in fact, all people, everyone working in universities, we’re all facing a really challenging time. And I think that’s true, in fact, of everyone in society right now. You know, we’re facing lots of anxieties, lots of unrest here in Australia, and I’m sure in places overseas as well, there’s the cost of living crisis. There’s a lot of housing insecurity. We have food insecurity. Lots of students today, we know, are facing food shortages. Price of food is increasing. There’s also anxiety around AI. That’s a real concern for students about the future job market. Then we have anxieties like climate change, political polarisation. It’s a really anxious time that we’re living in. And in terms of what to look for, I think it’s important to recognise also that entering university for the first time is a big transition period for students. And we know that there is increased risk of developing a mental illness. And this time period can also exacerbate existing mental illness in students. And some of the statistics across the world just really tell us that many students are struggling. Here in Australia, there was a survey done in 2021, the Australian University Survey, that showed that one in four students is experiencing mental health issues. In the United States, we see varying estimates of between 30 and 60% of students are experiencing significant psychological distress or in fact meeting the criteria for a mental illness, about 30%. So students are having a hard time, a lot of them are, and it’s important, I think, to be aware of some of the signs of when a student might be struggling. And these can be things like increased absences from class, they can be difficulty submitting assessment, poor concentration, not speaking up as much in class. So there are various signs and symptoms that some are visible, some are not visible, but those of us who are in the classroom are quite well placed to detect some of those signs, ideally before a crisis, a mental health crisis actually occurs.

Eliza Compton: God, those statistics really are sobering, aren’t they? And of course, we’re just starting the academic year in Australia, but also in the Northern Hemisphere, students are returning from the Christmas break and this is also a time when retention and dropout rates really become an issue. So this is a very prescient thing to be talking about at this time. With all these many issues that are affecting students as they’re coming into the classroom, can you give us a bit of an idea about what kind of effects these things might have on a student’s learning capacities?

Marissa Edwards: Yeah, I think it’s important to be aware that, well, there are different conceptualizations of mental health and well-being and mental illness, but most people recognise that mental health is on a continuum. There are various approaches in the mental health literature, but a predominant one is that mental health does exist on a continuum. It can exist from flourishing, doing really well. So you’re engaging, you’re interacting with others, you have social connection, you feel as though you have control over various aspects of your life, you’re really doing well and thriving. You can also be just doing okay. A lot of people are in that space and there’s also a place on the continuum for when people are struggling to the point finally on the other end point of the continuum really being at a point where professional help is needed and people might be exhibiting signs of indeed a mental illness or severe psychological distress. So students obviously come to university at various points on the continuum and ideally we would hope that they are in that space where they are doing well. Not everyone obviously flourishing like most people. We’re not always flourishing and doing well but we really want to try and help students to stay in that space where they are managing the stresses of life. But if a student is struggling and they are starting to exhibit those signs and symptoms of mental ill health, not necessarily a mental illness, but if a student is struggling with mental ill health, there are multiple signs. If you think about some of the criteria, even for depression and anxiety, these are things like fatigue, poor concentration, withdrawal from others. That’s often a sign. Other symptoms, depression, feelings of worthlessness, poor appetite. If they’re very anxious, they might be feeling restless and irritable. And all of these can have really significant effects on learning, particularly if the student is very unwell. And this can lead to things like, as I said, absenteeism, sometimes procrastination, particularly if a student’s really anxious, procrastinating tasks, feeling very overwhelmed, not knowing where to start, what to do, not engaging in the classroom, so not connecting with their peers or connecting if they’re in a group or a team. We do a lot of teamwork in my courses and my units, just really isolating themselves. So there’s many, obviously, many different ways that distress or illness can manifest, but poor performance and as I said, those things like absenteeism and withdrawal are pretty common.

Eliza Compton: So, it can have quite serious consequences on a student’s learning if they’re having issues on that spectrum. When mental health can sometimes be a bit of a sensitive issue, and maybe sometimes students are kind of high-functioning, so perhaps they’re coming to class, they’re maybe going through the motions, but there’s a sense that maybe something has changed or things are not kind of traveling as they are supposed to. How does an educator then start steps to put in place that support? I mean, teachers have kind of got a lot to do in terms of meeting learning outcomes. So, when is the right time to perhaps intervene, or how do you start that process?

Marissa Edwards: That is a great question. It is quite a difficult sort of what do you do? How do you approach this? How do you start these conversations? It can be quite challenging, I think, particularly if you don’t have a lot of teaching experience. I know when I was just starting out, I would have had very little idea of how to begin a conversation like that. But I think that it is a good point that some students, they are really high functioning. And I, I say to my students that vast, the vast majority of people with a mental illness, they are still turning up to work, they’ve got families, they’ve got jobs, they’re, you know, mental illness can be managed with the right supports in place. So in terms of how to start that conversation, there are some really great resources online. I would suggest that universities generally have guides for their educators about how to have those conversations if you think that a student is struggling. So I suggest to listeners to really see what kind of resources are available to them because they can be really helpful in knowing how to start that conversation. But often it is about choosing obviously the right time and place, doing it in a place that is private and simply asking a student, how are you going? Are you okay? Maybe it’s part midway through the term or the semester and maybe you have noticed some of those signs that they’re withdrawing or they haven’t submitted assessments on time, etc. And you can simply ask them, how are you going? I’ve noticed that maybe things have changed a little bit. You haven’t been maybe as focused in class or as engaged in class. And just saying, how are you doing? Is there anything you’d like to talk about?

Eliza Compton: This is such good advice. I feel too like some of this observation requires a certain level of understanding of students. And when we’re talking about student support, I mean, the teaching at university can range from a small group tutorial to a lecture theatre filled with hundreds of students. So this is a very much kind of almost how long is a piece of string kind of question, really. But what sort of skills do educators need in terms of being able to set themselves up to be able to make these kinds of observations? So you mentioned teachers who are coming into the profession or haven’t taught before. What sorts of things do they need for themselves in order to be able to support their students?

Marissa Edwards: It’s a great question. I think that you have to start somewhere. If you haven’t had much experience in teaching, going and observing your peers. I always invite my new tutors to come and observe my teaching or the teaching of other experienced tutors in my course. And it is something it takes time, right, to build those relationships and create those connections that are necessary to have those conversations where you are encouraging the student to be vulnerable. Disclosing any kind of struggle is an exercise in vulnerability. And I think that observing others can be really helpful in starting to understand how to build those relationships. But I would say things like active listening, being very empathic in your communications. I think that connection is just so critical in everything that we do, particularly in the current day and age where it is very difficult getting students even to come to class in some situations, particularly when lectures are, lecture recordings are immediately available. So finding ways to build those connections, being very welcoming, being inclusive from day one, taking those opportunities maybe to disclose a little bit about yourself, trying to make yourself be seen as a real person and really try and be authentic. I think that students really appreciate that. And if they see you as a person rather than simply just a lecturer or a unit coordinator, hopefully they might be a little bit more willing to disclose if they’re in a situation in which they’re struggling.

Eliza Compton: So modelling the interpersonal skills like communication and as you say, vulnerability like that.

Marissa Edwards: Absolutely.

Eliza Compton: Like be the behaviour you want to see in a way.

Marissa Edwards: Yeah, that’s right. I think that’s that’s really important. Obviously, this depends on your comfort level, right? Not everyone is going to feel comfortable sharing and disclosing their own experiences. But I, particularly when I’m teaching at postgraduate level, I teach undergrad and postgrad, I say to my students, I have an invisible autoimmune condition. Nobody would know that by looking at me, but I need certain supports in place, for example, to manage chronic pain and chronic fatigue. And I always try and mention that, particularly when we are talking about things like disability accommodations. And I think that it’s important that students can see you as a person, understand some of your own, maybe some of your own struggles and concerns and personal history. And in turn, that can encourage them to maybe to advocate for themselves in future.

Eliza Compton: Yeah, I mean, it is a bit of a two-way street. I mean, obviously, student support is incredibly important. I wanted to ask you a little bit about you, actually. You’ve got a background in organisational behaviour. So what got you interested in the mental health side of teaching and education?

Marissa Edwards: You’re correct. I do have a background in OB, organisational behavior, and I studied psychology to honours level. And I guess I always had a bit of an interest in mental health, given I studied clinical psychology in undergrad, but it was really seeing my colleagues and seeing my close friends at work really struggling as early career educators and also as PhD students. I’ve seen a lot of PhD students really struggle throughout the PhD process. And I think it was a little bit of my own lived experience as an ECR or a, I think there’s a different term in the UK that’s used, postgraduate researchers, I think. But yeah, I think my interest in mental health was really around experiencing some pretty significant stress and burnout myself. And also seeing, yeah, seeing my colleagues, you know, going off on sick leave and being absolutely depleted and absolutely spent at the end of every semester. And it made me think that this isn’t how things should be. We should be advocating for changes to the systemic issues that are in universities today that really produce psychological distress and ill health. And yeah, that’s really become, yeah, my passion project now.

Eliza Compton: Well, thank you so much for sharing that. You’ve neatly linked into one of the other issues that I wanted to talk to you about, which is a bit about the boundary setting. So we’re talking about supporting students, but a bit like when you’re on the aircraft, fit your own mask before fitting other people’s. Obviously, educators’ mental health and support systems are really important. Students and everyone in the university system is dealing with a whole range of stresses at the moment, whether that’s cost of living or job insecurity, your own job or the job market coming in. So what do educators then need to know about where to draw their own boundaries and protect their own mental health whilst also being able to have that vulnerability that they need to support their students?

Marissa Edwards: Well, I think that boundary setting is so important because as educators, we do a lot, I think, to support our students. And a lot of that is often invisible work, right? So I personally, I spend a lot of time trying to build a culture where students feel supported and students feel included. And I have a really wonderful teaching team full of fantastic tutors whom I’ve mentored and I’ve kept with me over the years because they are brilliant, particularly in first year. And there’s a lot of energy and a lot of time that gets put into that work. But I think that the boundaries are so important because when you’re passionate about what you do and when you genuinely care about students, these issues around providing support and listening to their concerns and advocating for them, that can really start to impede your own work-life balance and affect that. So setting clear boundaries at the beginning, I would say, is really important. So in the very first lecture, I say to my students, I do not answer emails outside of work hours. I do not answer them on weekends. I do not answer them during university breaks. And I have the same expectation for my teaching team. Unless a student is genuinely in a crisis, of course, if I get an email, of course I will respond. But if it is a minor issue, I’m, I am not going to, to respond. And I think it’s, it’s really hard because most of us will have an email app on our phones. We’re constantly connected today. There can be a pressure and sometimes an expectation that we are available 24/7. And I think that having boundaries in place is so important. I think also something that can help is actually knowing the resources that are available at your institution for any students who maybe are experiencing distress or symptoms of mental illness and being able to reach out to those people. If you are starting to feel overwhelmed, knowing the opportunities that students have to access crisis support here at the University of Queensland, we have a 24/7 crisis text line and a callback service. There are also disability and welfare and learning support teams. So if students have, if they need disability accommodations, I think they’re all called different things at different places, but the wonderful staff who help students navigate the accommodations that they need, often reaching out to those staff can be very helpful. Sometimes students who are experiencing distress, they may already be on what we call a disability plan and the person who is helping them navigate university study, who checks in with them, the welfare support, they may already be aware that this student has experienced depression or anxiety in the past or even trauma, eating disorders, substance use, anything like that. They will already have that history sometimes with the students. So knowing who else you can contact can be really helpful as well.

Eliza Compton: Is peer support something that you also can cultivate or lean into?

Marissa Edwards: Absolutely. I’m really lucky in that I have a large teaching team because I teach really large classes. So I have around 500 to 600 first-year students every semester. And we have a fantastic team of colleagues who teach across the first-year program. And I’m lucky in that, yeah, reaching out to colleagues is also a great option. And sometimes the student who is struggling may in fact be enrolled in multiple units or courses at the same time. And so we’re definitely colleagues can be a fantastic sounding board, especially if you’re just starting out, maybe you don’t have as much teaching experience, you can always reach out to someone and say, how would you handle a situation like this? You don’t obviously disclose names of students or anything like that, but what do you do when you have a student who is highly anxious and maybe is emailing you multiple times and they won’t take no for an answer? How would you handle a situation like that? So I think, yeah, peer support is a fantastic resource.

Eliza Compton: That makes complete sense to me, I have to say. In terms of practical support, are there any sorts of practical exercises that you would maybe recommend in class that help students build the capacity to ask for help or to build capacity to feel that really important sense of belonging, that it’s important that they’re there and that their success is important?

Marissa Edwards: Yeah, great question. I think all universities today, we’re recognising that belonging is just critical for students in terms of predicting performance and staying at university, reducing attrition. If students feel like they belong and they feel like they’re connecting with their peers, they’re much more likely to have a successful experience. So I think that there are lots of things that you can do to support students in the classroom, both with their learning and also around kind of mental health and speaking up and any concerns around that. I keep coming back to connection, but I always really strive to create a very authentic experience for students. I make sure that my tutors come to my first seminar, they are introduced. If there’s going to be a key point of contact in the course, I always make sure students know who this person is. He comes and introduces himself. It’s all about creating a culture where students feel valued and they feel included. And this can sometimes be just little things like knowing students’ names, which can be really hard. I will admit with 600, I don’t have much of a chance unless they’re in my small group tutorials, right? So we do have lectures and then small, smaller tutorials of about 20 to 30 students. Knowing student names can make a big difference. Offering students flexibility. Since COVID, students are demanding flexibility. And I think with, as we said, the cost of living crisis, most students are going to be working. Some students are going to be working full-time while trying to balance full-time study. Incredibly difficult. So, making sure that learning activities such as lectures are recorded. In my large first-year course, we are still running live Zoom sessions. So, if students don’t want to come to campus, they can watch my lecture from bed. As one student told me last semester, it’s a lot easier watching you in my bedroom. I don’t have to get dressed. I don’t have to go out and interact, which I kind of think, well, coming out onto campus and social connection, that’s important. But I think having that flexibility to be able to watch lectures in your own time, I think that’s important too. I think regular and consistent communication is very important. My students always say to me, We need reminders. We have so many assessment tasks due, particularly in the middle of the semester. So, giving us regular reminders, Blackboard, or at Canvas or via email, that can be very important. Also, consultation time or office hours. So, we still in my course, some of these we hold in person, some of these we hold online. So, students can just drop in and just ask questions, leaving time at the end of class as well. So, I’ve made sure that my classes, there’s enough content that there’s usually five to 10 minutes at the end of each class. Students can just go and have a chat with their tutor about anything that might be impacting them, whether it’s relating to the course or university study. In terms of speaking up and asking for help and so forth, it’s really challenging, right? So some students, they are perfectly happy managing any issues on their own. They’re not necessarily going to need help or want help. But if there are students who are experiencing maybe life issues or crisis issues such as domestic and family violence, I’ve had students experiencing homelessness, things like that. I always say to students, let us know early as much as you can. The earlier that you let us know, and I say this on day one of the course, the earlier you let us know, we’ll be in a better position to help you. And I have been teaching for 20 years. I have seen pretty much everything. I’m not easily shocked. And I also, specifically around mental health and dealing with mental illness in particular, I always try and say that speaking up and asking for help is a sign of strength. It is not a weakness. Recognizing that you maybe need some more support, that is a real act of courage. So, framing it in that way and hopefully reducing some of that stigma and some of that shame around seeking support, hopefully, that is something that can enable students to ask for help. And it might not even be needing to go and see a counselor. It might be, you know, I’m really struggling with anxiety. I’m struggling to sleep. I’m struggling to, you know, to focus on assessments. What can I do? Sometimes it’s just a chat at the end of class that they need, or you can direct them to more formal supports. So, I know that’s lots of advice. Other little things that I do, even things like scheduling of classes. In about week nine of our 13-week semester, I have an entire week where there are no textbook readings. There are no classes that students actually have to show up to, but they can come to their small group tutorial and ask a question about assessment. This gives everyone a little bit of breathing space. And I say to students: if you need to take the time that you would usually be in class and just go for a walk, get some fresh air, get some sunshine, have a nap, do whatever you need to do to cope with stress. I think having that break and also giving my tutors a break. Like we are all tired by about week nine or week 10. So giving students and tutors a bit of a break can be very helpful. And I think just one other point that maybe isn’t directly connected to speaking up, but does help, I think, to have conversations about mental health. And I’ve tried to introduce a little bit of a check-in at the start of each lecture, asking students how they’re going. They don’t have to share, but asking them to think about how they’re traveling. And then I always have a bit of a prompt and I always have a Padlet. And I will say to students that some of the, at the start of the semester, some of the most important things you can do for your mental health are looking after your sleep, getting some exercise and ideally some fresh air. You can exercise indoors, but I’m a big advocate for getting outside. So sleep, exercise, nutrition, social connection and stress management. Those are really some key areas that often we start to struggle in when we’re having maybe a stressful time. So I always ask students, what do you do to maybe help you get a good night’s sleep? And I get them to share their answers. And I’ll say, What did you do in the last week to socially connect with others? What are you doing this week to manage your stress? Sometimes I get quite unpredictable answers that I always say to students, make sure your responses are work appropriate. I am dealing with 17- and 18-year-olds, so I get all kinds of responses to, you know, what did you do to manage your stress? Some of which are kind of, I’m always a bit hesitant to put them up in public, but I think on a lecture screen that’s being recorded. But I think students do appreciate it. It’s a bit of a chance to just not think about course content and maybe get some tips from other students about, like, I had students talking about managing their sleep. I had one student say, I use a really great sleep tracker. Another student said, I use like a little white noise app. And, you know, just things like that. So other students can hear about what their peers are doing to protect and support their mental health.

Eliza Compton: I think that’s such a good idea on so many levels. One, to recognise that we’re all human and that study is one element of complicated lives, and also just sharing advice. There’s nothing like a hive mind to come up with some good ideas. What’s the best mental health protection advice that you’ve ever received?

Marissa Edwards: I think it’s there’s no shame in seeking help and I think in being vulnerable, it’s through vulnerability that we create connection. And I think that was from Brené Brown, who is such an incredible researcher and author. And really it’s through being vulnerable and authentic that we can build really meaningful, supportive relationships and hopefully in doing so be able to seek help when we need it as well.

Eliza Compton: Yeah, Brené Brown’s work has really done a lot to normalise the conversations around mental health, I think. Thank you so much for your time, Marissa. It’s been really enlightening and heartening, I think, to speak to you and get your sense of what the landscape of student and indeed academic mental health is at the moment. So thank you.

Marissa Edwards: Pleasure. Thank you so much.

Eliza Compton: Thank you to my guest, Marissa Edwards from the University of Queensland Business School for sharing her advice for educators on supporting students while also protecting their own boundaries and work-life balance. I hope teachers, whether new or experienced, will find her practical tips for building connection in class useful. I think the advice about being authentic and vulnerable within your own comfort level is a really valuable way to look at all relationships and not just those within education.

Eliza Compton: You’ll find more advice from educators and experts from institutions all around the world on supporting students in the classroom in the latest spotlight guide on Campus. Go to timeshighereducation.com/campus/keywords/spotlight-guides.

Eliza Compton: If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, like and subscribe and we’ll be back with a new episode in two weeks. Thanks for listening.

Sound clip: You’re listening to a Times Higher Education podcast.